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- [00:00]
Announcer
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- [01:05]
Dutch Vet Service Representative
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- [01:35]
iHeartRadio Advertiser
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- [02:09]
Newt Gingrich
On this episode of Newts World. It's not often I get the opportunity to speak with someone who used to be a professional hacker for the CIA. My guest is Dr. Eric Cole. He is a renowned cybersecurity expert, entrepreneur and best selling author with over 30 years of experience in the industry. He is known for his work in advancing cybersecurity and his dedication to making the digital world a safer place. He has advised some of the world's top companies on reducing their digital threats and improving their cyber health. He's the author of the book Cyber Crisis, protecting your business from real threats in the virtual. Eric, welcome and thank you for joining me on Newts World.
- [03:02]
Dr. Eric Cole
My pleasure and thank you for having me.
- [03:04]
Newt Gingrich
I'm very curious. In December of last year, Chinese hackers breached a third party vendor for the U.S. treasury Department to gain access to over 3,000 unclassified files. How could this have happened? And what should the US Government learn from this?
- [03:22]
Dr. Eric Cole
The reality is this is happening all the time. But most security vendors, most companies, most organizations have been compromised or penetrated by the Chinese, the Russians or the Iranians. And we just didn't detect it, we didn't realize it, and we didn't know that it's happening. So this is a much bigger problem that has been brewing for a long time and unfortunately there's not been a lot of awareness around just how bad the issue is. And governments and other organizations have to realize that the probability of third party vendors or third party sources having a vulnerability or a compromise is very high. And we need to redesign our systems, we need to redesign how we're configured to protect against it. And most importantly, we need federal laws on cybersecurity. There's a lot of state laws. California is leading the pack where there's a lot of privacy laws. But the United States is one of the few countries that don't have federal laws on cybersecurity and federal laws on data privacy.
- [04:32]
Newt Gingrich
And why is that? Why are we behind?
- [04:35]
Dr. Eric Cole
I believe the big issue is we always thought, and a lot of people still do, that cybersecurity gets in the way of freedom of speech, that cybersecurity gets in the way of exchange of information, and that cybersecurity is not fit for a democracy. Like most people, when they think of cybersecurity, you think of North Korea, where they don't have Internet access. Citizens in North Korea, they can't access the Internet, they don't have email, they can't access information. Even in Russia, most people don't realize a lot of the websites that we take for granted, a lot of the social media sites are not accessible in Russia and they're not available. So people have always felt that cybersecurity is more of limiting and reducing access to information, but that's just not correct. Cybersecurity is about how do we protect and control our information, so only people that need access to it has access to it. And I think that's why we've fallen behind, because we just haven't realized that cybersecurity is actually a compliment to democracy. It's not adverse to it.
- [05:47]
Newt Gingrich
Does anybody that you know of have a effective cybersecurity bill proposal?
- [05:54]
Dr. Eric Cole
None that I'm aware of. I continually try to push it. The problem is, as you're probably very familiar, everything is so political, everything is so either side has to disagree with each other that anything where we're trying to push through on cybersecurity is reading inversion from the other side. And the reality is we need to recognize cybersecurity as a non bipartisan issue. It's really something that impacts both sides. It impacts Democrats, it impacts Republicans, it impacts America as a whole. And one of the things I'm trying to do is really how can we break down those barriers and get both sides to agree that, okay, we can fight about some things, but cybersecurity? We need to get our act together. Because when the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they had no clue that we were going to be carrying cell phones with us. They had no clue that we were going to have tracking devices on us 24 7. And we need new laws that are keeping up with the digital frontier.
- [06:58]
Newt Gingrich
I couldn't help but smile at the ideas we get ready to celebrate our 250th birthday. That if you were to drop George Washington or Jefferson or Franklin into the current situation, all of it would astound them.
- [07:11]
Dr. Eric Cole
Yeah, they would be amazed.
- [07:14]
Newt Gingrich
It'd be remarkable. One of the examples I've been thinking about a lot. Elon Musk and Doge sent an email to federal workers saying, please reply to this email with approximately five bullets of what you accomplished this week and carbon copy your manager. Now, if people responded to that, are there any cybersecurity risks in responding to an email like that?
- [07:39]
Dr. Eric Cole
There's huge cybersecurity risks because you essentially have somebody who is not employed by that government agency and they're asking for information about what you're doing on a daily basis. If I answered that accurately, I would be giving away a lot of critical information. If I had to go in and say, well, I'm working on this project, I'm working in this area, I'm working on this research, that's a lot of valuable information that if that got in the wrong hands. And my question is, what email address is Elon Musk using to get replies? Where are those emails being stored? Because at least from as far as I can tell, Elon is not using government servers. I know that he's installed some of his own servers at treasury and other areas. So now if these emails from government employees that potentially are containing sensitive or even classified information, are stored on public servers. What happens if foreign adversaries get access to it? And I don't know if you saw this week, but the Doge website got hacked. They don't even have proper security. So here he's setting up their website for Doge, for government efficiency. They got hacked, and they're expecting government employees to give all this sensitive information to these servers that clearly have vulnerabilities.
- [09:05]
Newt Gingrich
I mean, it's part of what I'm thinking, that this is one of those ideas which, when you hit the implementation phase, is a thousand times more complicated than the idea. And I think that they really don't fully understand that.
- [09:20]
Dr. Eric Cole
And this is one where I can resonate, because at the end of the day, Elon is a geek. He's not a businessman. He's not a cyber guy. He's a geek, and he's all about solving problems, and he wants to solve the problem as quick and as fast as possible and get access to information. The issue is cybersecurity is always an afterthought. And back to your original question of why is the United States behind? It's because cybersecurity is always an afterthought. We're not thinking of cybersecurity. Elon didn't sit down and say, okay, how can we do this in a secure manner? What are the cybersecurity protocols that we need in place to do this correctly? He basically just said, I need the data. We'll figure out cyber later. But the problem is with digital information, once your data is leaked out, once your data exists on servers, you can't get it back. It will exist forever. I know. Before the podcast, I was talking with your producer how she took her daughter to a hospital and it got hacked, and her daughter's personal information was exposed. And the reality is, now that person has to live the next 50, 60, 70 years of their life in a world where their personal information has been compromised, because once somebody has your Social Security number, you can't get it back.
- [10:41]
Newt Gingrich
So to make clear how big a threat this is, you talk about a cyber war. You say, quote, our nation is currently at war. Whether we realize it or not, we're in the middle of World War 3. The reason why many people don't recognize it is because it's a different type of world war. In this war, every single country is involved, and every single country is both being attacked and attacking other countries. Walk us through all that. I agree with you, but I think it'd be Very helpful for people to hear what this cyber war is like.
- [11:14]
Dr. Eric Cole
So when most of us think of wars, we think of World War I, World War II, tanks, planes, boats, missiles, and guns. But we're in a digital war because we live in a digital world. And now it's not bullets, it's not weapons, it's packets, it's information, it's data, it's leakage. And the reality is, as we're starting to see with some of these breaches that come out, we saw Colonial Pipeline. I live on the east coast in Virginia. And when Colonial Pipeline, a large oil supplier on the east coast, got hacked, our gas stations were closed for four days. People were actually walking, they were panicking, saying, are we actually going to be able to get gas because of a cyber attack? Then we have Solar Winds, where you talked about earlier, where broke into a vendor that compromised government systems. And these attacks continue to happen and occur, but the reality is they started five to 10 years ago. The Chinese, the Russians, they're in our systems, we're in their systems. And it's sort of like the nuclear Cold War where Russia could destroy the United States and we could destroy Russia. So neither side would actually launch a nuclear weapon. But we're in Russia's critical infrastructure, they're in our critical infrastructure. And neither side is going to do anything because it would do mutual mass destruction. But what's happening when our information starts leaking out? What happens when our data is being compromised? And the reality is, because we're at war. When you're at war, you have a different mentality. I've been over in the Ukraine. I was over in Iraq during the Iraq war. When you're in a war, people are thinking differently, they're acting differently. They're more scared, they're more paranoid, they're more careful about what they're doing. The problem we have in the United States is everybody on the Internet thinks we're in peacetime conditions. So they're sharing information, they're giving their data, they're accessing whatever they want. They're posting pictures, they're putting everything out there. But the reality is, if they knew we're at war, we need wartime thinking. But people need to be more paranoid, a little more scared, a little more protective of the data. They need to be careful of who they're giving their information to. We need to start implementing security because here's the great news. Your banks, your E. Commerce, all have security built in, but it's turned off by default. It's not all turned on because they don't think citizens are ready for it. So we need to start going in to our apps, going into our devices, and start turning on security measures, turning on notifications, turning on Two factor authentication. So the security is there, but we just have to start implementing it. And the war that we're facing today is not a visible war where there's huge explosions or banks are being taken down. It's a war of data leakage. Imagine we have a big bucket. Instead of somebody going in, emptying the bucket, they're just putting little holes in the bucket. They're slowly leaking our data and leaking our information. And by the time the bucket's empty, most people don't even notice. A reality that I see all the time is most people's bank accounts or credit cards are compromised. But here's the reality. The attacker is stealing a dollar a month. Now imagine if somebody was taking a dollar from your bank account each month or a dollar from your credit card. You probably wouldn't notice. Most people don't look at their credit cards that closely. Most people don't look at their bank accounts close enough that if a dollar was missing, they would not recognize that error. But if you steal a dollar from every person every single month, that starts turning into a billion dollar industry, which is what we have right now. CyberCrime is over $50 billion. It's costing America on a regular basis.
- [15:35]
Newt Gingrich
That's wild. And it's so much bigger than people think it is.
- [15:38]
Dr. Eric Cole
Exactly.
- [15:39]
Newt Gingrich
If people want to protect themselves somewhat from their own devices, what should they do and how do they do it?
- [15:47]
Dr. Eric Cole
So the first thing they need to do is realize that when you buy a new iPhone or you buy a new Android device, they are very secure. They are very locked down and protected. The problem is, when we start installing all of these different apps, free is not free. And basically a free app is tracking your location. So first, if you have the choice between a free app or a paid version, use the paid version. If it's something that you need to run your life or it's critical for your life, you need to use a paid version because the paid versions are a lot more secure than the free versions. Next, any app that you haven't used in 45 days, delete, delete off your app. And I'm going to give you the challenge. I run my life. 10 apps. If I go and download a new app, I only do it if I delete an old one. So instead of having 50 and 70 apps on your device that you're not using, do you realize an app that you install on your device but you're not using actually is spying on you. It's tracking your location, it's accessing your camera, it's accessing your information. So delete any apps that are not needed or required. Second, for any application you're using, you need to use what we call two factor authentication. This is where when you log in, you put in your password and then your text a one time code to your cell phone and then you have to enter in that one time code. And I know people's initial response is, Eric, that's annoying. If every time I need to log in I have to enter a code that takes a couple of extra seconds. And my response is, you know what's really annoying? Your bank account getting hacked. You know what's really annoying? Your identity being stolen. So do you want a short term annoyance with two factor or a long term annoyance of being vulnerable? Next, turn on account notification. Every time I use my credit card, every time I withdraw money from my bank, I get a text notification where it says, eric, is this you? Did you actually do this transaction? Did you actually withdraw money from the account? And the reality is I get text messages at least one to two times a quarter that are unauthorized transactions. So if I didn't have that turned on, those transactions would have occurred and I would have been exploited and I would have been compromised. So once again, small short term annoyance, but long term benefits. So turn on account activity notification on all your systems and then the last piece I always give is under no circumstances should you ever click on a link. Don't ever click on a link. Don't ever click on attachment. This just happened to one of my friends where they're traveling in Florida. They got a text notification that said you ran one of the fast tolls in Florida and you need to pay the fine or you're going to have huge issues and problems. Click on this link and because they were in Florida, they thought it was legit, they clicked on the link and it was a scam. So don't ever click on a link, don't ever open an attachment. But Eric, what if my bank sends me a notification that says there's a problem and there's a link? Go to the app. Go to the app. Log in using a valid app to access your bank account, but never click on a link and never open an attachment.
- [19:35]
Newt Gingrich
I'm really curious, Eric, should you have a banking app on your phone?
- [19:39]
Dr. Eric Cole
Yes, I know that's counter because a lot of security people are like no, don't have anything. The reality is our phone is a trusted advisor. It's something that we have with us and we access. And here's the reality. Apps are much more secure than websites. Apps are much more secure than clicking links. So if you're going to use your bank, if you're going to do online banking, if you're going to do e commerce, it's much better to use the apps. The apps have a lot more security and a lot more protection than websites. So the best advice I can give you is minimize your use of websites, maximize your use of trusted apps, and that's going to also make you a lot more secure.
- [20:35]
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- [21:35]
Dutch Vet Service Representative
Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.
- [22:05]
Laundry Product User
Every now and then I rinse it out and I need yummy rins tonight and I need it more. My kid wet the bed and the smell never leaves. I don't know what to do. I'm always in the dark. The Sweatin Dancer smells like a dark dark. I'm Downy Rinsing tonight.
- [22:28]
Dr. Eric Cole
Downy Rinse fights stubborn odors in just one wash. When impossible odors get stuck in, rinse it out.
- [22:41]
Newt Gingrich
We're really in kind of a free for all where it's not like the Cold War where there was one side and the other side. It's more like between governments and private criminal groups, et cetera. It can be coming from anywhere at any time. And so you can't just focus on North Korea or focus on Russia. You almost have to focus on how you defend yourself against all the attacks from every single version.
- [23:05]
Dr. Eric Cole
That's very correct, because here's the reality. There are no national and international borders on the Internet. When you're on the Internet, I can access different countries, different areas, different locations, and there's no boundaries. There's nothing. Somebody in Russia can access servers and individuals in America without going through customs, without presenting a passport, without going through immigration. So the problem is, as I mentioned, the laws were written for physical boundaries. If somebody is physically in the United States, they have to abide by our laws. If they're physically in Russia, they abide by Russian laws. Well, on the Internet, you don't know where you're at. I track very closely, and I will tell you when I'm surfing the web and doing daily activity, just like you and anyone else, I am frequently accessing servers in the Philippines because there's a lot of data centers there in Singapore. The Middle east has a lot of data centers. Dubai, South America. And people don't realize that even when they're going to E commerce sites or banks or other areas and giving away their information, those servers are often not in the United States, which means your data and your information is not in the United States, which means even if we had privacy laws, they might not apply to your data or information if it's outside of our country. So people just don't really understand the complexity, complexities, that the Internet is really one world. There's no boundaries. Servers can exist. Data can exist anywhere. And until we get international laws where we all cooperate and say, okay, we're all going to work together, it's going to be real difficult because this just happened this morning is I'm working on an investigation and we found a hacking group in Russia. We know who they are, we know where they're located. We have their physical address. They're a company, they're an incorporated company in Russia. But here's the problem. They're not breaking any laws in Russia, and there's no extradition treaty with Russia. So we know who's hurting us, who's hurting Americans, who's stealing our information. But because there's no international laws there's really little we can do to stop them, which, as you said, every individual has to realize they're a target. And we need to start putting measures in place and protect us because unfortunately, until there's global laws, the laws aren't going to be able to protect us or keep us safe.
- [25:41]
Newt Gingrich
Can we reverse it and use our cyber capabilities to go back in and attack the people who are doing this?
- [25:48]
Dr. Eric Cole
We absolutely can. That's another area that we've seen the recent presidents actually do a really good job on. Trump in his first term, he was actually the first president that actually allowed Department of Defense to launch cyber attacks without executive approval. Prior to Trump passing that executive order on his first term, if the Department of Defense wanted to launch a cyber attack, an offensive operation, they needed presidential approval. Now, China doesn't require that. Russia doesn't require that. Iran and Iraq doesn't require that. So we were really hamstrung in that capability. So, yes, we have to start getting more aggressive. But the other thing we need to do is get a lot more partnership between government and commercial organizations. In China, the Chinese government spies and steals information from US Companies for the benefit of Chinese companies. In the United States, we don't have that capability. In the United States, the Department of Defense, they can't steal corporate information and give it to US Companies because once again, that violates our laws. But if other countries, their governments are working on behalf of local companies to help and support them, we need to do the same thing. We need to have a much closer partnership where we can launch offensive operations and then the government can share that information with U.S. companies to help make them more competitive, as you think, through.
- [27:28]
Newt Gingrich
This continuous cyber war. As I understand it, North Korea's almost entirely government run cyber war. But Russia has a huge amount of criminal operations. Nigeria, I think, has a lot of criminal operations. I gather China has a mixture of government and free enterprise entrepreneurs. Is that literally true all around the world, that there are different patterns?
- [27:55]
Dr. Eric Cole
Absolutely, and you nailed it. In North Korea, there's really no corporations. The government is the country and basically runs everything. So everything is run from the government and controlled by the government. In China, it's very cooperative, where companies and the government work very closely together. So the government is going to do attacks on behalf of companies and vice versa. Now, when you get in to carriers like Russia and Nigeria, it's interesting, the commercial criminal actually helps and supports the government. So these commercial elements are actually supporting and involved a lot of government officials in Nigeria, a lot of government officials in Russia. They're actually involved and sit on the board of these cyber crime or criminal companies. So they're actually supporting, helping them, and they're helping and supporting the government in return. Imagine in the United States if we had generals and government officials actually sitting on commercial boards that are doing offensive operations to help the company, but also help the country. It's a total mind shift. But the reality is, until we start thinking and acting like the adversary and so we doing what the adversary does, we're at a disadvantage because these other countries have commercialized cybercrime, they're making tons of money on it, they've legalized cybercrime. And because in the United States it's illegal, we're at a huge disadvantage in terms of offensive operations and protecting ourselves.
- [29:35]
Newt Gingrich
And some of these things are really big. If I Remember correctly, the 2015 Office of Personnel Management breach was a huge failure. Did we learn anything from it?
- [29:48]
Dr. Eric Cole
Unfortunately, very little. And the reality that is brought up that we have to recognize is Social Security numbers are no longer private information. We have this term, I'm sure you've heard pii, Personally identifiable information or phi, personal healthcare information, and our Social Security number, our driver's license are all considered private information. And if somebody knows my Social Security number, my date of birth and my driver's license, they can open bank accounts, they can open credit cards, they can access information, they can access data. But as you said, in that breach and in other breaches, a large percent of American Social Security number has been compromised. A large number of Social Security numbers is public information. So now we're living in a world where a personal identifiable information is actually public. Our Social Security number is public, our driver's license is public. Yet that's what we're using to authenticate and verify. So in terms of back to the federal laws, we actually need to come up with new unique identifiers for American citizens that is actually secure, protected, and not compromised. Something along the lines of biometrics. We're actually tying it to like your fingerprint or your facial ID or something that's much more difficult for somebody to steal. But the reality is what we're using as personal information is actually public and exposed and available to many people.
- [31:26]
Newt Gingrich
I mean, should people despair or how do you function in the kind of wide open world you're describing?
- [31:32]
Dr. Eric Cole
The reality is sort of two things. One is awareness is recognizing the reality. Don't be afraid of it. Don't be terrified. I work in cybersecurity and people like Eric, how are you in a good Mood, how are you not depressed? I'm like, because I'm aware. I understand, and I embrace it. And then it's just doing simple things, doing cyber hygiene. But the reality is, because technology came on so quick that most of us were not trained in school, when I went to school, the World Wide Web didn't exist. There weren't cell phones, there weren't computers. They didn't teach me about cyber hygiene. But now my kids are going to school and they're still not teaching them about cyber hygiene. So to me, it's a lot of simple things. One is just recognize and know that you're a target and understand where is your information, where is your critical data? And then understand that passwords are a thing of the past. Right. Passwords are no longer strong. I can crack any password. You give me an account that uses a password and I'll break into it. And we need to really embrace what we call two factor or multi factor. And this is where you get an alert to your phone. You type in a code and start doing that. The other thing we have to realize is free apps are not free. Those free apps that you have on your cell phone, they're spying on you. I always love doing this. If we were in person, with your permission, I would ask to look at your phone and go under advanced settings and go under tracking and camera, and you would probably be shocked of how many apps are tracking your location and how many apps are accessing your camera or how many apps are accessing your microphone. And the reality is, we can turn that off if we're aware. Most people just are not aware of how bad the threat is and how open and exposed our data is.
- [33:29]
Newt Gingrich
I'm sort of being sobered up just thinking about it. Let me ask you specifically about North Korea, because several people have said to me that a large part of the North Korean military operation is actually subsidized by cybercrime, and that if we were really serious about putting pressure on North Korea, we would find ways to sort of isolate them from a cyber theft standpoint. I mean, is that accurate?
- [33:55]
Dr. Eric Cole
It is accurate. And not just for North Korea, but also Russia and Nigeria and Argentina and a lot of these countries that they're realizing that competing with the United States in traditional business is really hard. It's really difficult. And I hate to say it, you heard the phrase crime pays. It is real easy to commit cybercrime. I often joke with my friends and family that if I didn't have ethics and morals and I didn't love this country. I could be a lot richer if I moved to South America and basically was a cyber criminal. It is just unfortunately so easy and simple to break in to these different companies, steal information, hold them ransom, ransomware attacks where they break in, they steal the data and unless you pay a ransom, most people don't realize. Last year in 2024 ransomware attacks just in the United States against US companies was over $42 billion.
- [35:03]
Newt Gingrich
Good grief.
- [35:05]
Dr. Eric Cole
Now take 20 billion of that, give that to North Korea. Take another 10 billion, give that to Russia. So yes, imagine now a country like North Korea is making $20 billion a year on cybercrime and they're increasing their capabilities because guess what, it's working. We can't stop them and they're continuing to get more advanced in their capabilities. I always laugh is we're trying to stop North Korea from having nuclear weapons. But the reality is without realizing it, North Korea has built cyber security nuclear weapons that are hurting and harming us and we don't even realize it.
- [35:58]
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- [36:58]
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- [37:07]
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- [37:09]
Dr. Eric Cole
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- [37:35]
Newt Gingrich
I think that the whole system you're describing, we really have to reconceptualize how we're approaching this. It's so much bigger, so much more powerful, has so many more threats. You almost need to start from ground zero and try to imagine both what would a secure, effective system be like and what would the right kind of offensive system be to make people decide it was too expensive and too painful to do things to us? I mean, doesn't that require a whole new way of thinking about the system's architecture?
- [38:10]
Dr. Eric Cole
Absolutely. We talked about the last several years about infrastructure. There was the trillion dollar infrastructure bill to sort of rebuild the US Infrastructure because it's old and it's outdated, it's antiquated. We need a trillion dollar bill on rebuilding our cyber infrastructure. Because the reality is the United States created the Internet. If you go back to the 60s and 70s, there was Darpanet, which was the original research project with the Department of Advanced Research for the Department of Defense that actually built out the Internet. Well, what happened is the infrastructure of the Internet and the United States have now become one, which means we don't have any boundaries, we don't have any protection. North Korea can disconnect from the Internet. They know where they're connected to the Internet. Russia has done this twice a year. Russia disconnects from the Internet for 24 hours to show that they can run independently. The problem is in the United States, the Internet is the United States. We can't disconnect, we can't isolate, we can't protect. So you are spot on. Where we need to a huge revamping where we need to rebuild the cyber infrastructure. We need to rebuild how we're connected to the Internet. And we need to create isolated countries just like Russia and North Korea, where we can protect, secure, and limit who can access and what can access our information. But until we sort of redesign our infrastructure on the Internet and have a new cyber infrastructure, this is going to continue to be a problem because we're trying to fix a broken model.
- [39:56]
Newt Gingrich
It seems to me that what you have is something which grew up ad hoc over a long period of time and gradually began to attract more and more bad actors. And now you have bad actors who have very modern technologies and very modern approaches penetrating a system much of which is obsolete. This has really got to be one of the profound infrastructure challenges of the Trump administration to take this head on.
- [40:24]
Dr. Eric Cole
I agree, and that's one where I love what's going on now with government efficiency and dodge and cutting spending. But my concern is, are we focused on the right problem? Government efficiency is an issue. It's an issue that we need to address. We need to limit spending. Cybersecurity is a problem that we have to stop ignoring. So you really summarize it so well that this administration, to me, if they want to go down and sort of be remembered and have a legacy, the legacy is not going to be in government efficiency. It's not going to be in cutting spending. It's going to be, could this be the first administration that actually passes federal cyber security laws? Could this be the first administration that passes a trillion dollar cyber infrastructure bill that rebuilds our cyber infrastructure? But you're right. Until we start taking this seriously and Congress and the White House and everyone starts realizing that cybersecurity is the number one problem, we're going to continue to have these issues and continue to be vulnerable.
- [41:30]
Newt Gingrich
This is exactly right. And I'm really delighted that we had this conversation because I think you've put your finger on one of the great challenges of the next 10 years. And I want to thank you for joining me. Your book, Cyber Protecting your Business from Real Threats in the Virtual World is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. We're going to feature a link to buy it on our show page and I want to let our listeners know they can follow your recent work by visiting your website@drericcohl.org and thank you so much for being here.
- [42:02]
Dr. Eric Cole
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
- [42:07]
Newt Gingrich
Thank you to my guest, Dr. Eric Cole. You can get a link to buy his new book, Cyber Crisis Protecting your business from real Threats in the Virtual World on our show page@newtsworld.com Newts World is produced by Gingrich360 and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnzi Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich 360. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns at Gingrich360.com Newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newt's World.
- [43:06]
Announcer
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