Episode 819: Ukraine – A Nation at War

Summary

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Newt’s World – Episode 819: Ukraine – A Nation at War

Air date: March 8, 2025
Host: Newt Gingrich
Guest: Ambassador Gregory W. Slayton, author of Portraits of a Nation at War

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Episode Overview

This thought-provoking episode delves into the ongoing war in Ukraine, framing it both as a battle for sovereignty and as a pivotal moment for freedom, democracy, and the future of Europe. Newt Gingrich is joined by Ambassador Gregory W. Slayton, whose new book Portraits of a Nation at War offers both historical context and vivid, on-the-ground perspectives. The conversation covers Ukraine’s resistance, international diplomacy, U.S. and European roles, Russian intentions, disinformation warfare, the importance of continued support, and personal stories connecting Slayton to the cause of freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Launching Portraits of a Nation at War from Kyiv (02:48–03:37)

• Context: Slayton was present in Kyiv on the third anniversary of the full-scale Russian invasion (Feb 24), marking the launch of his book.
• Personal Note: “It was a very somber occasion, as you can imagine. I was invited by President Zelenskyy's office… The amazing thing, Newt, is that the following Friday I was in Washington for that incredible dust up at the White House.” (02:59 – Slayton)

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2. The Washington–Kyiv Diplomatic “Dust Up” (03:37–06:38)

• Slayton’s Reaction: Disappointed by diplomatic tensions, he underscores “peace through strength” as essential:
  “With a guy like Vladimir Putin, you know, his record is crystal clear. We just can't trust him… Peace through strength is the way forward.” (03:37 – Slayton)
• Bridge-building: Slayton alludes to his efforts and others’ to bring parties together, convinced a minerals deal will be reached and U.S.-Ukrainian relations will recover.
• Historical Parallels: Warns against repeating the post-Vietnam U.S. withdrawal scenario, emphasizing the consequences of “appeasement.”

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3. Diplomacy and President Zelenskyy’s Letter (05:02–06:21)

• Zelenskyy’s Public Outreach: During a U.S. joint session, Zelenskyy sends a letter signaling Ukraine’s readiness for negotiation and a minerals/security agreement.
• Strategy: “In a letter you can control exactly what you say… it had to be a little humble, a little contrite, had to be thankful... nobody wants peace and needs peace more than the Ukrainians because they have suffered so much.” (05:50 – Slayton)

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4. U.S. & European Support – Ukraine’s Lifeline (06:21–08:25)

• Military Dependence: Europeans lack military-industrial capacity; “they absolutely need the heft and the breadth of the U.S. military industrial complex to keep this war going.” (06:38 – Slayton)
• Potential for U.S. Contractors as Deterrence: American presence in Ukrainian mineral exploitation seen as a de facto shield:
  “I don't think Putin's gonna be wanting to kill Americans who happen to be in Ukraine.” (07:31 – Slayton, see discussion with Newt at 08:25)

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5. Deterrence, Nuclear Threats, and Historical Lessons (08:25–10:38)

• On Russian Threats: “He's never used nukes. He's not going to do it… we learned in World War II that appeasing Hitler was a complete and total failure. We cannot appease Vladimir Putin.” (08:44–09:18 – Slayton)
• Questions about U.S. Aid: Discrepancies in aid figures discussed; Slayton affirms the number is substantial but less than claimed by some:
  “The number that we put confidence in… is about 120, 125 billion, which is a big number.” (10:38 – Slayton)
  “Zelenskyy's right to be thankful because without those weapons, this war is over.” (11:31 – Slayton)

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6. Ukraine’s Defense: Why Did Ukraine Hold Out? (13:35–15:24)

• Misjudgments: Russian miscalculations about Ukraine’s unity, supplies, and the will to fight:
  “They only had four or five days of bullets, of equipment, of gasoline… their spies had told Putin… the Ukrainians hate Zelensky. They love Russia, which… is not true.” (13:54 – Slayton)
• The Role of Morale: Gingrich compares Ukraine’s survival to Israel’s in 1947-48: “the balance of forces are offset by the balance of morale and moral courage.” (15:24 – Gingrich)
• Slayton’s Faith Journey: Personal stories of his faith inspired by a Chinese family, connecting his worldview to resilience and service.

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7. Slayton’s Global Experience & Lessons on Governance (15:49–20:56)

• Asia Experience and World Vision: Insights on his time as a Fulbright in Asia and with World Vision in Africa.
  “Where you had the rule of law, strong currency, and allowed people to just get after their business… everything flowered.” (16:44 – Slayton)
• Consul General to Bermuda: U.S. connections to Bermuda and the importance of international economic interdependence.

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8. Russian Disinformation: Roots and Reality (20:56–22:31)

• KGB Tactics Updated:
  “They have accelerated their misinformation and disinformation campaigns… Western intelligence services believe they spent at least $1.2 billion a year on disinformation.” (21:08 – Slayton)
• Moral Clarity:
  “Ukraine doesn't have freedom of religion? Our book documents over 500 Christian churches… closed or destroyed... There is no religious freedom in Russia, there is religious freedom in Ukraine.” (21:40 – Slayton)

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9. Putin’s Aims and the Risks of Negotiation (24:09–29:47)

• Putin’s Vision:
  “He sees himself as Peter the Great. He wants to re establish the Soviet Union… That’s why Poland is in this battle.” (24:59 – Slayton)
• Backfire of Aggression:
  “Putin is not hearing about all these military disasters… because you do not bring bad news to the boss.” (26:22–27:06 – Slayton)
• Can a Real Truce Happen?
  “With an American military backstop, and especially the minerals deal… I think it could hold.” (27:17 – Slayton)
• Ukrainian Resilience:
  Ukraine’s increased drone production and manufacturing legacy create a formidable defense.
  “The drones… have been super impressive… Russia just doesn’t have the manpower to occupy Ukraine.” (28:44 – Slayton)

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10. Technology’s Role: Starlink in Ukraine (29:47–31:03)

• Starlink’s Critical Importance:
  “Starlink is absolutely critical to the Ukrainian military... If you don’t know where your enemy is, you can’t hit him.” (30:00 – Slayton)
• Leadership and Morale:
  “That decision [by Elon Musk]… just like when Zelensky said, ‘I don’t need a ride, I need ammunition’… that really rallied the Ukrainians.” (30:40 – Slayton)

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11. The Book’s Mission, Disinformation, and Democracy (31:03–33:16)

• Aid and Advocacy:
  The book aims to raise resources for Ukrainian nonprofits and dispel destructive myths:
  “We kept hearing these crazy stories from people… Where does [Tucker Carlson] get this stuff? He’s a Kremlin mouthpiece and he knows better… Yes, there is corruption in Ukraine… but... they’re working hard on that.” (31:56 – Slayton)
• Defending Freedom:
  “This is a battle for everyone who believes in freedom, in democracy, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly… There is no freedom in Russia.” (32:42 – Slayton)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Putin:
  “He can, you know, shout and roar all he wants, but he’s in a very weak position.” (07:31 – Slayton)
• On military aid numbers:
  “Zelenskyy’s right to be thankful because without those weapons, this war is over.” (11:31 – Slayton)
• On Disinformation:
  “To say that NATO started this war, Ukraine started this war… that’s the type of disinformation we want to take head on.” (21:46 – Slayton)
• On America’s obligation:
  “I don’t believe that we can, you know, wash our hands of this. … This is a battle for everyone who believes in freedom…” (32:28 – Slayton)
• Morale under adversity:
  “It’s a little bit like the survival of Israel in ’47, ’48, when the balance of forces are offset by the balance of morale and moral courage.” (15:24 – Gingrich)
• On Starlink and technology:
  “Starlink is absolutely critical to the Ukrainian military.” (30:00 – Slayton)
• On freedom in Ukraine and Russia:
  “You try to go to Russia and criticize Vladimir Putin, you’ll be there for less than a day until you’re thrown in jail. There is no freedom in Russia.” (33:08 – Slayton)
• Closing words:
  “I hope we’ll educate some of our listeners into understanding how important it is that Ukraine not be defeated and that Ukraine continue as an independent country and that we do have an obligation to find a solution which… means that Russia cannot come back and try again.” (34:11 – Gingrich)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:48 – Slayton discusses Kyiv trip, book launch, and “crazy juxtaposition” with events in D.C.
• 03:37 – Reflections on U.S.-Ukraine diplomacy and “peace through strength”
• 05:02 – Zelenskyy’s letter and negotiation postures
• 06:38 – Importance of U.S. military support; European military limits
• 07:31 – Deterrence via economic (minerals) deals, American presence
• 08:44 – Nuclear threats, analogy to historical appeasement
• 13:54 – How Ukraine stopped the Russian advance in 2022
• 16:44 – Lessons on the rule of law and governance from global experience
• 21:08 – Russian disinformation campaigns, scale, and tactics
• 24:59 – Putin’s “Peter the Great” mindset and consequences for NATO
• 27:17 – Possibility of a real, durable truce in Ukraine conflict
• 29:47 – Drone production, the manpower mismatch for Russia
• 30:00 – Starlink’s role in Ukrainian defense
• 31:07 – Why Slayton wrote the book and the battle over U.S. public perception

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Tone and Style

• The conversation is candid, historically grounded, and occasionally urgent, emphasizing both the high stakes and the values at risk.
• Slayton brings a mixture of warmth, experience, and frank critique—especially regarding misinformation and the realities on the ground.
• Gingrich focuses the discussion with strategic and historical context, drawing insightful parallels to the Cold War, Israel’s fight for independence, and U.S. global leadership.

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Episode Conclusion

Slayton and Gingrich close by underscoring Ukraine’s fight as a defining struggle for 21st-century democracy and the global order, urging continued awareness, material support, and moral clarity in resisting both military aggression and disinformation.

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For listeners interested in the context, Slayton’s book Portraits of a Nation at War is recommended, with all profits going to Ukrainian humanitarian nonprofits.

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Transcript

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[Newt Gingrich]

On this episode of newtsworld. In his new book, Portraits of a Nation at War, Gregory Slayton provides a comprehensive analysis into the realities of the brutal 2022 Russian invasion within the context of Ukraine's people, history, arts, culture, traditions and geography. Compelling and well researched Portraits of Ukraine is enhanced by hundreds of beautiful images that draw us into the complex, riveting history that has made Ukraine what it is today. An independent, democratic European nation of 40 million people who are defending their freedom, their families and their future. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Ambassador Gregory W. Slayton, former U.S. consul General and Chief of Mission to Bermuda and author of the book Portraits of a Nation at War. Gregory, welcome and thank you for joining me on Newt's World.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Thank you Newt. It's an honor to be here and it's great to see you again.

[Newt Gingrich]

You know, you were in kyiv on the third anniversary of the invasion of Ukraine on February 24th. What was that occasion like?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, it was a very somber occasion, as you can imagine. I was invited by President Zelenskyy's office, which was a great honor. It was actually the official launch date of our book, Portraits of a Nation at. And that was an honor. Also. The amazing thing, Newt, is that the following Friday I was in Washington for that incredible dust up at the White House. So it was really a crazy juxtaposition. And I think I was one of the very few Americans to be in both places that week.

[Newt Gingrich]

That's amazing. So I'm very curious, what was your reaction to how the White House evolved?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, obviously, I was deeply disappointed. I appreciate President Trump's effort to bring peace. I very much, much believe that peace through strength. As Ronald Reagan said, trust but verify. And with a guy like Vladimir Putin, you know, his record is crystal clear. We just can't trust him. I wish we could, but we can't. So peace through strength is the way forward.

[Newt Gingrich]

Already since that meeting, there seem to be steps to get back together again and to find a common ground. I mean, do you think this is sort of just a temporary dust up between countries who are, in the long run, have a natural interest in each other?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I do. I do, Newt. And I've tried to do my best to kind of bring the parties together in a small way. Many other people more important than me doing the same thing. I do think that Ukraine, a democratic, freedom loving country based on the rule of law, has a lot in common with our nation. And I believe we will come back together. I believe that minerals deal will be signed and, and I applaud President Trump and his efforts to really get the parties together again. Peace through strength. We must avoid at all costs the Nixon Kissinger disaster in South Vietnam, which I know you remember. You know, the peace, so called peace. Six months later, the North Vietnamese overrun the south and 20 years of a communist hellhole ensues that we cannot allow.

[Newt Gingrich]

So the president's address of the joint session, he suddenly stopped and says, earlier today, I received an important letter from President Zelensky of Ukraine. The letter reads, quote, ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than the Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under President Trump's strong leadership to get a peace that lasts. We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it at any time. First of all, I thought it was kind of dramatic to read the letter in the middle of his speech, but second, it sounds to me, like they're finding a way to make up inch by inch and get back in the right direction. Is that sort of your reading of it?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Absolutely, Newt. In fact, I was one of probably many people who recommended to President Zelensky's office to do a letter, because in a letter you can control exactly what you say. There's no chance of a blowback back from anybody else. And I thought they did a good job. Had to be a little humble, a little contrite, had to be thankful and had to let everybody know that they want peace also. And frankly, Newt, nobody wants peace and needs peace more than the Ukrainians because they have suffered so much.

[Newt Gingrich]

So along that line, I noticed that Zelenskyy left from the White House, went to London, but that in fact, after he met with all the Europeans, they seemed to all be saying to him, you know, you better find a way to get to work with Trump, because in the end, the United States is central to whether or not this thing happens.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

You're absolutely right, Newt. As you full well know, there are a number of key military systems that the Europeans just don't make. And then in terms of volume, they absolutely need the heft and the breadth of the U.S. military Industrial Complex to keep this war going. I mean, Ukraine will be in very deep trouble within six to eight months and basically out of key munitions within 12 months under any circumstances without the US continued support.

[Newt Gingrich]

You know, the Europeans have some of them. I shouldn't say the Europeans, but Britain and France, Turkey have all said they would be willing to have a European force in Eastern Ukraine as sort of a guarantor of the agreement. I'm curious, how do you think Putin will respond to the idea of Western European troops on the Russian border?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, Putin's already told us, he's already said that's unacceptable. That's not going to be part of the negotiations. But, Newt, what we have to realize about Vladimir Putin, he is at his weakest point in the 25 years of his absolute dictatorship. He's lost Syria, his army's been bloodied. Just horrible to the point where they have to get North Korean, basically untrained conscripts to fight alongside the Russians. Putin has been dramatically weakened. He can, you know, shout and roar all he wants, but he's in a very weak position. And I believe that President Trump is a good negotiator and will understand that and will push for the kind of guarantees we need, including that minerals deal. Remember having American contractors, American companies, you know, exploring those mineral deposits? I don't think Putin's gonna be wanting to kill Americans who happen to be in Ukraine.

[Newt Gingrich]

The minute President Trump suggested this, I thought, in a sense, he's trying to indirectly recreate the hostage environment where you have so many Americans working in Ukraine that you have functionally blocked the Russians, even if you have not signed an explicit security agreement.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

You're absolutely right, Newt. And just look back. Even during this three year conflict, Russia, Putin has specifically said, oh, we're gonn nukes. We're thinking about using nukes. We may use nukes. He's never used nukes. He's not going to do it. Now, of course. Do I want to bet on World War Three? Of course not. But sometimes you have to call out a bully and you have to call out a dictator. We learned in World War II that appeasing Hitler was a complete and total failure. We cannot appease Vladimir Putin. That would be an equal. Well, I don't know equal, but that would also be a tremendous failure.

[Newt Gingrich]

Part of what's fascinating about the Cold War is that we maintained a balance from the time we published our grand strategy in 1950 until 1991 when it collapsed. We were able to sort of brush up against each other in Vietnam, in Korea, Cuba, Grenada. But ultimately, we were very careful not to get to a nuclear war because both sides knew. How terrible. Because you do know Ukraine. I have to ask you about one thing Zelensky said that I was puzzled by. He said, quote, we hear from the US that America has given Ukraine hundreds of billions, specifically 177 billion, to be precise. He says, this is Zelensky as the president of a country of war. I tell you we have received a little over 75 billion. That means we never received 100 billion. Of that 177. And that is important. We're talking about specific things. We did not receive this as cash, but as weapons. We have received over $70 billion in weapons. There's training, transport, humanitarian, social programs and so forth. But when people say that Ukraine received $200 billion to support the army during the war, that's not true. I don't know where all that money is. Maybe it exists on paper, Maybe. So we don't argue. We're grateful for everything. But as president, I record that we've received over 70 billion. That is significant aid, but it's not 200. I mean, what do you make of all that?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, there's a lot of confusion. I mean, President Trump has said 350. That's manifestly false. The number that we put confidence in and we've done some research on this, about 120,125 billion, which is a big number. One of the problems, as you know well Newt, is that the US Government, we record the value of our weapons at the value of the time they were made. Okay, so it's like I buy a car 20 years ago, I paid $20,000 for. Well, it's not worth $20,000 today. Same thing with weapons systems. A lot of the weapons systems, in fact the large majority that we're giving to Ukraine are weapon systems that are coming to the end of their useful life. We're paying American military companies to use American employees to make American munitions that are fully and totally new and fresh and ready to go. So I think that Zelensky is wrong, to be honest. I think the number is bigger than 75. But it's certainly not 350. Let's say it's 100 to 150. I'm very confident saying it's in that range. That is a huge amount of money, huge amount of weapons. And Zelenskyy's right to be thankful because without those weapons, this war is over.

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[Newt Gingrich]

Were you surprised? You know, you remember just before the war you had general Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chief, say in a testimony at the Senate that he thought the Russians would be in Kiev in three days, which I have a hunch is what Putin's generals told him. Were you surprised that they were able to stop them so decisively?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I absolutely was, Newton. We go into this in great detail. In the book, this, you know, Portraits of Ukraine book, we have a whole chapter on the Russian invasion and how the Russian military made fundamental mistakes. For instance, you might know that they only had four or five days of bullets, of equipment, of gasoline, for instance, because they expected to take Kiev. Their spies had told Putin over and over, the Ukrainians hate Zelensky. They love Russia, which, of course, is. Anybody who knows anything about Ukrainian history knows that that's not true. Yes, there is a small portion of Ukraine, the Far east, where they are Russian speaking, but the vast majority of Ukrainians, they remember the Holomodor, the, you know, genocide of the 20s and 30s, and the Ukrainians were ready to fight. Now, it's true that our CIA and almost all the Western intelligence services said one week, maximum two, but they didn't take into account the huge mistakes that the Russian army made, splitting into three instead of just going for Kiev and cutting off the head, which they could have done. You know, they had three or four assassination teams in Kiev to assassinate Zelensky and his entire cabinet, his wife, everybody. Those assassination teams were taken out and the Ukrainians, you know, rallied in what can only be described as a miracle. And I know as a believing person, Newt, you believe in miracles. And it's the second day of Lent, and I'm super thankful.

[Newt Gingrich]

Well, it's a little bit like the survival of Israel in 47, 48, when the balance of forces are offset by the balance of morale and moral courage. I was noticing while you've done this amazing work on Ukraine, that originally your background when you went to Dartmouth was in Asian Studies and you were a Fulbright Scholar in Asia. I mean, what was that like?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, that was a wonderful job. Being a Fulbright scholar is one of the great honors. I was able to do a master's in Asian Studies. I actually grew up partially in a Chinese family, and that's a much longer story. My father abandoned me and my family anyway, and that's how I came to faith. And, you know, here we are in Lent. I had a wonderful Chinese family, very strong, believing family. They did things I'd never heard of before. They prayed before meals, they went to church. They read the Bible. Like, what are you talking about? But I saw that they were a wonderful family. They were very close. They loved each other like everybody. They made mistakes, but they forgave each other. And that made me really interested in this whole Christianity stuff. I started to read the Bible with my Chinese brother. And a few years later, I converted and I came to Christ. And that's been the most important decision of my whole life.

[Newt Gingrich]

That's a remarkable story. Where all were you in Asia?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I was a Fulbright scholar in the Philippines, but my master's thesis was Economic Comparison of Six Different Southeast Asian nations and Japan. So really did economic comparison, macroeconomic comparison. And I came to see. You know, I'll be honest, Newt. When I was in college, I was pretty much of a socialist. And then I, you know, like Winston Churchill said, if you know you're not a Liberal when you're 20, you have no heart, right? But I came to faith. I started to pay taxes. I did this study, and I saw that big government doesn't work. There's no doubt. It just was clear that big government didn't work. And where you had the rule of law, strong currency, and allowed people to just get after their business, like Hong Kong and Singapore, everything flowered. The economy flowered, the civil society flowered. It was just a beautiful thing. Taiwan was a little bit slower, but the same example. So you see again and again and again that rule of law, strong currency, government, you know, staying out of the way, setting the rules, and then letting people, letting the free market work. That is the way, as you've always preached, Newton, I've always appreciated this about you. That's the way to benefit society.

[Newt Gingrich]

When you were done with your scholarship, you end up working for World Vision International. What is World Vision International?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

World Vision International was then and is still today one of the largest Christian relief organizations in the world. I specifically was in West Africa. And you'll probably remember, Newt, that in the middle of the 80s, there were tremendous famines caused by drought in both West Africa and East Africa. World Vision had one portion of West Africa, specifically the seventh region of Mali. Now, let me just say the only reason the seventh region of Mali has ever been heard of, it is the only place in the world that can legitimately say it is beyond Timbuktu. This Timbuktu is the capital of the sixth region of Mali. So anyway, I lived there for about three years.

[Newt Gingrich]

That puts you on the edge of the Sahara, didn't it?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Yeah, exactly right, Newt. In fact, I own my own camel, and I use my camel to commute. We have a very Large operation of maternal child feeding centers and helping moms to understand how to defeat diarrhea. Back then, the belief was if your kid had diarrhea, you just didn't feed them anything, didn't give them anything to drink. Well, they either died or they recovered. Most die. So we help people understand. Help moms understand you have to feed them. Here's the specific formula. Especially have to give them drink. It was very rewarding work. I'm still proud of that today.

[Newt Gingrich]

That's great. But then you ended up with. President George W. Bush named you as the Consul General and Chief of Mission to Bermuda. That's a pretty big jump in patterns.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, there was a long way between that. We had four kids and I was with McKinsey and Company for a long time. And anyway. But yes, I was deeply honored when President Bush asked me to be the Chief of mission to Bermuda. There were some other posts that were discussed. They were also excellent posts, but we decided on Bermuda. At that point, bermuda was the 10th most visited country by US citizens and it's still today one of the largest centers of the reinsurance industry. So if you have insurance anywhere in the United States, certainly some of that is laid off in Bermuda. So it's an important country for us economically. And it was a great delight and a real pleasure from my family and myself.

[Newt Gingrich]

So you mentioned being with McKinsey and company. Where did you live while you worked with them?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I first worked with McKinsey in Paris. They gave me a summer internship between my first and second year at Harvard Business School. I speak French pretty fluently, and that was a great honor. Then I work with them in New York City. I went down to Buenos Aires to help found the McKinsey & Co. In Argentina, which was also a great honor. I love McKinsey. It's a great firm, great people. That was a real pleasure. I still stay in touch with a lot of my former colleagues from McKinsey & Company. Really fine firm.

[Newt Gingrich]

That's great to go back to your book for. One of your major themes is about the scale of the Russian disinformation campaign. Can you explain how the Russians approach all this and how they do it?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Yes. This dates back to the KGB days of the Soviet Union, what they called active measures. Now, the FSB doesn't use that term anymore. But of course, as you know, Vladimir Putin is a former KGB officer and he loves that kind of stuff. So they have accelerated their misinformation and disinformation campaigns. Western intelligence services believe that they spent at least $1.2 billion a year on disinformation, misinformation, propaganda. And I think that is a a more or less accurate number that buys you an awful lot of, you know, I want to be diplomatic. I mean we can disagree about things, but to say that NATO started this war, Ukraine started this war, or Ukraine doesn't have freedom of religion when our book documents over 500 Christian churches that have been closed, have been bombed, have been destroyed, or the priests or pastors have been jailed in the occupied Ukrainian territories over the last two years, over 500. There is no religious freedom in Russia, there is religious freedom in Ukraine. And that's the type of disinformation we want to take head on.

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Every now and then I rinse it out and I detail me rins tonight and I need it more. My kid wears a bed and the smell never leaves. I don't know what to do. I'm always in the dark, the sweat and that short smells like a dark.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I'm down here county rinse fights stubborn.

[Newt Gingrich]

Odors in just one wash when impossible.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Odors get stuck in.

[Newt Gingrich]

Part of what I'm struck with and I'm very much for the survival of Ukraine and I think that there's qualitatively no comparison between the dictatorship in Moscow and the efforts of the Ukrainian people to be self governing. But at the same time Putin has been very open for a very long time that in his worldview the greatest disaster in the 20th century was the collapse of the Soviet Union and that in a sense he represents a kind of Almost paranoid Russian nationalism, which sees itself permanently under siege not just from the Americans, but from everybody. Do you think that he is tired enough or that his system, not him personally, is tired enough, that it is plausible that they will in fact accept a serious truce?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, I can only hope. But Newt, what you say must be noted because Putin has said over and over what you just mentioned. The greatest tragedy of the 20th century is fall of the Soviet Union. And he sees himself as Peter the Great. He wants to re establish Soviet Union. What does that mean for Poland? What does it mean for all the former Soviet states? That's why Poland is in this battle. That's why Poland is one of the greatest allies of Ukraine and not just Poland, all those former Soviet states except the ones that are lap dogs like Belarus. Belarus is not an independent country in any way. They do whatever Putin wants them to do, but everyone else is opposed because they know they are next. And that's what we've got to think as members of NATO.

[Newt Gingrich]

I was reviewing the other day, the western countries in NATO have actually put forces into Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. They're not big forces, but they're enough that they would be signaling devices, if you want to think of it that way. But again, from a Putin standpoint, it's almost like his aggressiveness has backfired totally. You now have Sweden and Finland in NATO, which they never would have done it. You have the Swiss buying F35s and talking about increasing their defense budget. I mean, in a lot of ways his aggressiveness, it seems to me, has actually put Russia at a greater disadvantage.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I totally agree, Newt. But remember, one of the greatest weaknesses of any dictatorship, not just Russia, right, Is that the paramount leader doesn't hear bad news. He just doesn't. That's why the Russian military split up their forces into three different because he was told, and they were told time and time again, Ukrainians are going to greet you with bread and salt. They love you, blah blah, blah. And that's why Putin is not hearing about all these military disasters, that his army has been absolutely pummeled in terms of material losses, in terms of manpower. From what I understand, Putin is not hearing that because you do not bring bad news to the boss.

[Newt Gingrich]

Given all that, is there a circumstance where we could develop a truce that would actually stick as opposed to just being a breathing space for Putin to rebuild?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Newt, that's the million dollar question. And I believe that what France and England are talking about, European boots on the ground, as much as Putin hates that with an American backstop That doesn't really work without American intelligence, American oversight, American military backstop. But with an American military backstop, and especially the minerals deal where Americans are, you know, exploring and mining and refining large amounts. These are not poultry amounts of critical minerals. These are large amounts of critical minerals. I think it could hold. Remember that Putin not only has suffered great losses geopolitically, the loss of Syria was a huge blow to his prestige because they called and said, we have this. We know that the former dictator called Russia and asked Putin for help and Putin said, effectively, nyet. That is not a good look for a wannabe ruler of the world.

[Newt Gingrich]

It's also interesting because the Western allies in the United States bought Ukraine time. People forget Ukraine used to be a very important manufacturing center for the Soviet Union. They built the largest freight carrying aircraft in the world. They built nuclear weapons. Today they're building, I think, 40,000 drones a month.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

I think the number is actually substantially higher than that nuke. But it's impressive.

[Newt Gingrich]

That would suggest they may be much harder for the Russians to defeat than people think.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Yeah, well, you're absolutely right. Ukrainians are smart, they're resourceful, they're good business people. And yeah, the actual number from what I've told from Kiev is far higher than that. And that's great news because otherwise it's asymmetric in terms of the number of soldiers, as you know, and shells and everything. But it's been the drones that have been super impressive. Something else most people don't realize is Russia just doesn't have the manpower to occupy Ukraine. Just doesn't. Depending on different calculations and how restive the Ukrainians would be under a Russian occupation, you're talking about maybe a quarter of a million troops in Ukraine. That doesn't work for Russia. If you want to have forces elsewhere as well. You know, we see the losses of Russian allies in the occupied territories almost every day. Some Russian mayor or vice mayor or somebody is getting killed. That's just not going to work. A Russian occupation of Ukraine just will not work.

[Newt Gingrich]

One of the things that was sort of a amazing technological change was Elon Musk shifting the Starlink system to put it over Ukraine. How big a deal was that?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Starlink is absolutely critical to the Ukrainian military. Absolutely critical. There's a few alternatives to Starlink that have been developed, but Starlink is absolutely critical. And the Ukrainians use it all the time. By the way, the Russians are using it now too, as you probably know. But the Ukrainians use it extensively. And it has been super helpful because without information, you know, you can't use drones, you can't use anything, right? If you don't know where your enemy is, you can't hit him.

[Newt Gingrich]

In the early phase of the war, to a degree you wouldn't expect from an individual, even the richest guy in the world, as opposed to a country, his decisions were really important, critically important.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

And you know, I appreciate he comes in for a lot of criticism and maybe some of it is justifiable, but that decision, just like when Zelensky said, hey, I don't need a ride, I need ammunition, the fight is right here. That's the kind of Winston Churchill type statement that really rallied the Ukrainians, helped them to kick the Russians out of Kiev. And here we are three years later, still fighting.

[Newt Gingrich]

What led you to decide to do portraits of Ukraine, a nation at war?

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Thank you, Newt. I appreciate your asking that. Since very early after the Russian invasion, we began with a number of other great Christian faith based organizations to deliver large trucks into the war zones of eastern and southern Ukraine. Trucks full of food, some medical supplies, But I'd say 98% food because people were starving. I mean, all the grocery stores had been destroyed. There was nothing there. We have a network of over 100 small distribution centers. Many are churches, some are synagogues, some are our community centers. And what we saw there is that the need was just escalating and donor fatigue was, you know, understandably setting in. So we decided together as a family that we wanted to do something for Ukraine. Both to generate revenue for these great Ukrainian nonprofits, but also we kept hearing these crazy stories from people. You know, I'm not going to mention any names, but maybe Tucker Carlson comes to mind. Where does he get this stuff? He's a Kremlin mouthpiece and he knows better. I really believe that. I don't think Tucker Carlson is stupid or whatever, but for whatever reason, he and a whole bunch of other people are spreading a lot of stuff that's just plain wrong. Yes, there is corruption in Ukraine. There's corruption in every former Soviet Union nation. But according to Transparency International and a number of others, Ukraine has gotten much, much better over the last four or five years. They're working hard on that. And of course, freedom, democracy, the rule of law, those are the cornerstones of civilization and that's what America stands for. I don't believe that we can, you know, wash our hands of this. And that's why we did the book, Newt, because helping people understand this is not just a Ukrainian battle, this is not just a European battle. This is a battle for everyone who believes in freedom, in democracy, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. You try to go to Russia and criticize Vladimir Putin, you'll be there for less than a day. Less than a day until you're thrown in jail. There is no freedom in Russia.

[Newt Gingrich]

No, I think that's right. And we get reminded of it regularly. Gregory, I want to thank you for joining me. Your new book, Portraits of a Nation of War, is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. It's an extraordinary book. I recommend everyone get a copy of it. And I do want to mention that all profit from the sale of your book go to pro Ukrainian charities that are helping the many millions of Ukrainians who've been deeply wounded by Russia's ongoing war. This is a real act of love and dedication on your part, and you're taking the time to talk with us. I hope we'll educate some of our listeners into understanding how important it is that Ukraine not be defeated and that Ukraine continue as an independent country and that we do have an obligation to find a solution which hopefully will end the fighting, but will end the fighting in ways that are permanent and that mean that Russia cannot come back and try again.

[Gregory W. Slayton]

Well, you're exactly right. Newt, it's such a pleasure and an honor to be with you. Thank you for standing for freedom and democracy and the rule of law all your life. That's a big deal. So I'm honored to be here. Thank you for having me. And let me also wish God bless you and happy Easter and Slava Ukrani.

[Newt Gingrich]

Thank you to my guest, Gregory W. Slayton. You can get a link to buy his new book, Portraits of a Nation at War, on our show [e-mail] Newts World is produced by Gingrich360 and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnished Lindsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich360. If you've been enjoying Newts World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newts World can sign up for my three free weekly [e-mail] newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newts World.

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