Episode 914: Steve Israel on “The Einstein Conspiracy”

Summary

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Newt’s World – Episode 914: Steve Israel on “The Einstein Conspiracy” (November 27, 2025)

Overview

In this engaging episode, Newt Gingrich welcomes former Congressman, author, and bookstore owner Steve Israel to discuss his new historical thriller, The Einstein Conspiracy. The conversation delves into Israel’s transition from political satire to historical fiction, the real-life events and research behind the novel, and the fascinating, overlooked history of Nazi espionage in America. The episode is rich with personal anecdotes, reflections on the writing process, and thoughtful observations about the intersections of history, science, and storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Steve Israel’s Journey: From Congress to Bookstores (03:11–06:44)

• Opening Thoughts and Warm Welcome
  Newt introduces Steve Israel as a multi-faceted figure: former Congressman, acclaimed author, and independent bookstore owner (03:11).

• Motivation Behind Opening Theodore’s Books
  Steve shares that his love for bookstores was longstanding, using them as retreats during his congressional travels. After Congress, he wanted to contribute to his community through bookselling:

  “Those were my retreats, my refuges...I decided that I would devote the next chapter of my life to owning a bookstore and selling books.” —Steve Israel (04:50)

• Challenges of Independent Bookselling
  The tough economics of independent bookstores, especially in the age of Amazon, are discussed. Author events are crucial for survival:

  “I've got to hire booksellers, pay them a decent wage...margins on books is very, very narrow...But I’m having more fun now than I ever had in 16 years in Congress.” —Steve Israel (05:56)

• Tribute to Theodore Roosevelt
  The store's name, Theodore’s Books, honors Roosevelt, whose Sagamore Hill home is nearby. Steve shares colorful stories about Roosevelt’s deep connection to Oyster Bay (06:44).

Shifting to Historical Fiction: The Birth of “The Einstein Conspiracy” (07:25–09:43)

• From Political Satire to Historical Thriller
  Newt notes Steve’s successful pivot in genre, praising The Einstein Conspiracy as a compelling, accessible read about the 20th century’s greatest scientist.

• Origins of the Novel
  Steve’s fascination with pivotal ‘hinges’ of history leads him to Einstein’s 1939 cottage on Long Island, the site where Einstein wrote his fateful letter that spurred the Manhattan Project:

  “What if Einstein hadn’t written that letter? What if FDR hadn’t received it?...I put it all together into one historic thriller called The Einstein Conspiracy.” —Steve Israel (08:14)

Blending Fact and Fiction: Research & Writing Process (09:43–11:52)

• Balancing Research with Narrative Flow
  Steve describes the research “rabbit holes” he fell into, particularly regarding local details relevant to Einstein’s time on Long Island. Editorial guidance forced him to streamline for story pacing:

  “My editor...called me and said, ‘You’re up to page 20 on this voyage...you need to cut it to three paragraphs.’” —Steve Israel (10:37)

• The Author-Editor Relationship
  Newt openly admits he resents editing, and admires Steve’s willingness to pare down for the sake of storytelling (11:52).

Three Perspectives: Einstein, the FBI, and American Nazis (15:42–18:37)

• Depth of Narrative:
  Newt highlights three threads in the novel:

  1. Einstein as a Character: His personality, public appearances, complexity.
  2. FBI and Counterespionage: The increasing urgency of FBI operations against Nazi activities in the U.S.
  3. American Nazi Networks: The chilling reality of U.S. communities openly supporting the Nazi cause.
  • Newt singles out Steve’s depiction of Yapank (formerly German Gardens) on Long Island:

    “This place existed, and it was a haven for pro Nazi activities...Streets were named after Hitler and his lieutenants...They had parades training their young people to march in uniforms of Nazi Stormtroopers.” —Steve Israel (16:48)

• Espionage in American Industry
  Nazi infiltration of defense plants in New York is revealed, with J. Edgar Hoover pleading for more counterespionage resources from FDR (18:37).

The Science and Urgency Behind the Manhattan Project (19:27–24:20)

• Skepticism and the Nuclear Chain Reaction
  The episode covers scientific debates within the physics community about atomic weapons. Einstein is skeptical—until Leo Szilard presents him with new data:

  “He actually says, even if you could split an atom, that doesn’t mean you can create a chain reaction that can do anything dangerous...it’s like shooting birds in the dark...” —Steve Israel (20:30)

• Einstein’s Conversion and Letter to FDR
  Einstein’s shift to alarm and action is dramatized, highlighting the pivotal role of chance encounters in history.

• Scale of American Mobilization
  Anecdotes about the Manhattan Project’s vastness underscore America’s wartime unity and efficiency. Newt reflects on how impossible such rapid mobilization would be today:

  “Can you imagine today, if somebody walked in, started ordering billions of dollars, had not been sworn in, had not been vetted...the level of screaming would be unbelievable.” —Newt Gingrich (24:20)

The Ironies and Impact of Nazi Anti-Semitism (28:29–30:41)

• Expulsion of Scientific Talent
  Hitler’s anti-Semitic policies led to the exodus of leading physicists, which in turn sabotaged Nazi scientific efforts and hugely benefited the U.S.

  “Nazis begin to refute what they call dark physics...so many Jewish scientists working in the field and Hitler has to discredit them...To my knowledge, every credible Jewish physicist ends up leaving or is expelled.” —Steve Israel (29:21)

• American Immigration and Innovation
  Newt and Steve both stress the ongoing need for legal immigration to strengthen science and the nation.

Real-Life Inspirations & Future Plans (32:28–34:11)

• James Amos: Fact Inspires Fiction
  Israel reveals that the FBI agent in the novel, James Amos, was a real African American agent with a remarkable life story, working for Theodore Roosevelt and later taking down Nazi spy rings:

  “If this book does well enough, I can see a sequel where James Amos goes on his next adventure to bring down an even more lethal Nazi threat to the United States after WWII begins.” —Steve Israel (32:43)

• Writing Fiction vs. Nonfiction
  Newt confesses fiction writing is much harder than nonfiction, expressing admiration for Israel’s craft.

The Value of Bookstores and Local Community (34:11–35:37)

• Celebrating Small Business Saturday
  Steve shares that he’ll be signing his own books at Theodore’s Books, highlighting the unique environment of independent bookstores that foster civil discourse and community:

  “People come in, they can read Gingrich, they can read Adam Schiff. They’re there not to scream, but to learn and have civil discourse. And I love the locality of the place.” —Steve Israel (34:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On history’s hinges:

  “These fairly unknown moments that if they tip in a different direction, fundamentally and profoundly change all of history.” —Steve Israel (08:14)

• On the complexities of running a bookstore:

  “I'm a Democrat, and now suddenly I'm obsessed with less regulation and lower taxes now that I have a book.” —Steve Israel (05:40)

• On impatient authorship:

  “I hate being edited when I write it...Those are the moments when I just want to quit and go hide somewhere.” —Newt Gingrich (11:52)

• On the chilling reality of local Nazi networks:

  “This little village...it was called German Gardens...you had to show full Aryan blood...streets included Adolf Hitler Street, Joseph Goebbels Street...massive swastika banners...This place existed, and it was a haven for pro Nazi activities.” —Steve Israel (16:48)

• On scientific migration and American innovation:

  “Had those great, brilliant scientific minds not converged on America, I don't think we would have had the bomb.” –Steve Israel (29:21)

• On the need for continued legal immigration:

  “While we oppose illegal immigration, we desperately need to continue legal immigration and to be willing to attract talent from all over the world. And Einstein is a perfect example.” —Newt Gingrich (30:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Title | Summary | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:11 | Steve Israel Introduction | Newt’s intro and Steve’s background in politics and literature | | 04:50 | Why Open a Bookstore? | Steve on his motivation and personal connection | | 05:40 | The Challenge of Book Retail | Economic realities and author events at Theodore’s Books | | 06:44 | Theodore Roosevelt Tribute | Naming the bookstore and Roosevelt’s Oyster Bay history | | 08:14 | The Spark for The Einstein Conspiracy | The turning point that led to the novel | | 10:37 | Research and the Writing Process | Navigating research vs. story flow | | 15:42 | Three Narrative Strands | Einstein, FBI, and American Nazi communities | | 16:48 | Nazi Anda American Towns | The real history of Nazi activity in America | | 19:27 | The Science of the Bomb | Debates within the physics community | | 20:30 | Einstein’s Reluctant Alarm | Einstein’s changing perspective on the atomic bomb threat | | 24:20 | Mobilization of the Manhattan Project | American scale, urgency, and contrasts to today’s bureaucracy | | 29:21 | Nazi Anti-Semitism and Innovation | How Nazi policies harmed their science efforts | | 32:43 | James Amos – Real Life Inspiration | Origins and future of the series | | 34:32 | Small Business Saturday and Bookshop Life | Steve’s plans and reflections on bookstore community |

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Tone and Language

Throughout, the conversation is warm, witty, and deeply informed. Steve Israel’s humor and self-awareness (“now suddenly I’m obsessed with less regulation and lower taxes”) and Newt’s mix of admiration and candid confession (“I hate being edited”) give the episode a relaxed, thoughtful tone that’s welcoming to history buffs, book lovers, and general listeners alike.

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Conclusion

This episode of Newt’s World offers a fascinating journey through the hidden history behind The Einstein Conspiracy novel and the real-life stakes of World War II-era science and espionage. The dialogue is rich with historical revelations, literary insights, and personal anecdotes, making it valuable both as a primer on this moment in history and as a look at the process of transforming reality into captivating fiction.

For more information or to buy the book, visit Theodoresbooks.com

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Transcript

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[Newt Gingrich]

Then the space hamster flew his hot.

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[Steve Israel]

Bottom of the ocean.

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[Steve Israel]

So that means a half day.

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[Newt Gingrich]

On this episode of Newts World. My guest today is Steve Israel. He served as Congressman for New York's 2nd district from 2001 to 2013 and New York's 3rd district from 2013 to 2017. When he retired from the House, he opened an independent bookstore, Theodore's Books, in Oyster Bay, New York. He's written two critically acclaimed political satires, the Global War on Morris and Big Guns, and he's joining me today to discuss his new novel, which I have to say I found fascinating. Steve is a brilliant guy and remarkably versatile. So I'm really pleased to welcome the author of the Einstein Conspiracy, my guest and good friend, Steve Israel. Steve, welcome and thank you for joining me on new world.

[Steve Israel]

Mr. Speaker, what an honor it is for me to be on. And had somebody told me when I entered Congress as a Democrat in 2000 that one day I'd be conversing with you about books, I would have told them that they were out of their minds. This is really special. Thank you.

[Newt Gingrich]

Well, it's great. And I think you and I were the other one time at a National Book Day event put on in Washington celebrating various books. But I have to ask you, you are the only member of Congress to retire and open an independent bookstore, Theodore's Books, in Oyster Bay, New York. Was that part of your plan when you left the Congress?

[Steve Israel]

It was, actually. And I know you yourself, an acclaimed author and voracious reader. I'm sure bookstores had a special place for you. They sure did. For me. When I would travel anywhere in the US or on congressional delegations abroad, my scheduler would always put on my schedule the name and address of the closest bookstore. Those were my retreats, my refuges. That's where I would go to let my blood pressure drop a little bit from the demands of Congress. And when I left Congress in 2017 and I decided that I would devote the next chapter of my life to owning a bookstore and selling books, which.

[Newt Gingrich]

Is a pretty courageous decision given the complexity of the modern book market and the rise of systems like Amazon. Was it as big a challenge as you thought it might be?

[Steve Israel]

In many respects, yes. I'm a Democrat, and now suddenly I'm obsessed with less regulation and lower taxes now that I have a book, you.

[Newt Gingrich]

Know, like George McGovern after he had retired and opened up a sort of a boarding house and realized how many rules there were.

[Steve Israel]

Lots of rules. I mean, it is a very difficult competitive environment, competing against Amazon or some of the big box bookstores who can literally sell their books online at a loss because the only cost that they're factoring into the book is the cost of an algorithm, really. I've got to hire booksellers. I've got to h people who know what they're talking about. I've got to pay them a decent wage. I've got to pay rent. The margins on books is very, very narrow. We really don't make much on books. We've had to adapt. We do very well with author events. We have acclaimed historians come in, Ron Chernow and Eric Larson. They've come to our event. So when we bring authors in, we do well, but it is a struggle. On the other hand, I'm having more fun now, Mr. Speaker, than I ever had in 16 years in Congress.

[Newt Gingrich]

Oyster Bay, of course, was Theodore Roosevelt's home. And it's Theodore's books, which I presume was a tribute to the former president.

[Steve Israel]

That's exactly right. His home, Sagamore Hill, is less than a mile from our store. And everything about Oyster Bay, and I invite you to come when you have an opportunity. Everything about Oyster Bay is Theodore Roosevelt because that's where he shopped. That's where he went to the drugstore. His Masonic lodge was there. It's where he ate. And what better name for a bookstore in Theodore's hometown than Theodore Roosevelt? By the way, when he died at Sagamore hill, he left 7,000 books on his shelves, and they're still there.

[Newt Gingrich]

So let me ask you, though, you get out of Congress, you write two critically acclaimed political satires, the Global War on Morris and Big Guns. Now, that sort of makes some sense, because that is your background. And then all of a sudden, my door is darkened by the Einstein Conspiracy. I want to start right off and just say to all of our listeners, the Einstein Conspiracy is a terrific book. And anybody who has any interest in the most important scientists of the 20th century and an extraordinary time in history will find the Einstein Conspiracy just draws you in. It's remarkable what led you from political satire to suddenly writing this kind of a historical mystery wrapped around a famous personality?

[Steve Israel]

Yes, we have something in Common. And that is, I think we're both fascinated with these little hinges of history, these fairly unknown moments that if they tip in a different direction, fundamentally and profoundly change all of history. So I have in my collection Gettysburg and your trilogy on the Civil War, which is kind of instigated by one simple alteration of fact, and that is that Lee wins Gettysburg, and that takes the country on a completely new course. So I've also been fascinated by that. And I live on Long Island. One day I was driving around the north fork of Long island, and I literally stumbled on this little cottage overlooking a harbor where Albert Einstein lived in 1939. And it was in that cottage that he wrote a letter to Franklin Delano Roosevelt, warning him that Germany was. Was trying to build an atom bomb. We at the time had no atom bomb research program, nothing by the government. It was being researched on an ad hoc basis by various scientists. And so I was thinking, what if Einstein hadn't written that letter? What if FDR hadn't received that letter and authorized a research program? I also knew that the Nazis had a very aggressive program to try and assassinate Albert Einstein, that they had agents on Long Island. And so I put it all together into one historic thriller called the Einstein Conspiracy.

[Newt Gingrich]

I'm interviewing you from Bern, Switzerland, which is less than a mile from where I'm sitting. Einstein lived for years working as a patent clerk for the Swiss government because the universities wouldn't hire him because he was too bold in his ideas. And then I run across this book by you, and I have to say I couldn't put it down. I don't want to give the whole book away, but you come at it from angles involving the FBI and a whole Nazi effort to kill Einstein and various other things that are going on in parallel. I can't imagine anybody reading this and not walking away thinking a whole bunch of new ideas and new thoughts. Now, in your case, once you had seen the cottage, how did you go about researching this? Because it's a very well researched book.

[Steve Israel]

Thank you. And that's, as you know, very difficult. You know, the tension between the research and a propulsive story is complex. You know, you can over research a book, and then it turns out to be nonfiction instead of fiction. My aim was just to entertain the reader, to bring them on an adventure. That's the bargain that authors make with the readers. They're going to be on an adventure. They'll learn something, perhaps new and reflect on it. And so I had to really kind of temper my research. I went down a three day rabbit hole once on exactly what it would have taken for Albert Einstein to sail about 20 miles in the Baconic Bay. I talked to sailors and I wanted to understand the wind conditions and I wanted to understand how the sailboat would have responded to certain wind shifts and final My editor I don't know whether you ever went through this, but my editor called me and he said, you're up to page 20 on this voyage. It's really interesting if this were a primer on how to sail in the Peconic Bay, but it's not. You need to cut it to three paragraphs. So I did a lot of heavy research and then really needed to kind of tailor it and cut it so that the reader would turn the page and keep it propulsive.

[Newt Gingrich]

You're a much better team player than I am. I hate being edited when I write it. I don't want some person who doesn't have my passion step in and say, well, you know, the only problem is that entire paragraph is not understandable and nobody will be able to wade through it. Those are the moments when I just want to quit and go hide somewhere. So I have great admiration for your calm willingness to accept what I regard as a horrendous interference with the artist's right to do what he or she wants.

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[Newt Gingrich]

I don't know if this was deliberate, but you actually, in my mind, have three different kinds of insights. One is Einstein himself as a personality and the things he was doing and his speech at the New York World's Fair. And I mean, there's just a lot about Einstein I didn't know. And then second, you have the whole challenge of the FBI, which is increasingly engaged in anti Nazi activities and trying to track down both from a sabotage standpoint and from a spying standpoint what the Nazis are up to in that period. And then third, you do a terrific job. And I'm curious how much of this is built out of that kind of historic research and how much it was just a novelist keeping us amused. Your description of the village, for example, that was very, very pro Nazi network of people who were actively anti American and pro Hitler. That third track in some Ways was as interesting as anything else in the book.

[Steve Israel]

Well, thank you for saying that. For me, that was the most chilling to write. This little village, and it's all based on actual events. It's called Yapank. It's on exit 66 of the Long Island Expressway. But back in the 1930s, it was called German Gardens and was a neighborhood where you had to show full Aryan blood in order to have a home. Now, this is in the United States. It then bec a training camp for pro Nazi activities. And so I'm not making this up. This is the historic record. The streets in this little village included Adolf Hitler Street, Joseph Goebbels Street, Hermann Goering Street. They had these massive swastika banners flying from the community meeting house. They had parades where they trained their young people to march in formation wearing uniforms of Nazi Stormtroopers. This place existed, and it was a haven for pro Nazi activities. And now here you have these two FBI agents who, ironically, one of them, by the way, is based on truth. James Amos was an FBI agent. The two of them have this mission of finding a Nazi spy who's going to harm Albert Einstein. And you would think it couldn't be that difficult, only it turns out he's a needle in a haystack because there were pro Nazi activities just permeating and penetrating New York at the time.

[Newt Gingrich]

I'd known for a long time about the German saboteurs landing on Long island who had picked up almost immediately. But I didn't realize that there was this entire internal network, if you will, that already existed that had really planted pretty deep roots in the United States.

[Steve Israel]

They were penetrating our defense plants. You know, Long island known for Grumman. That's where Grumman started. Republic Fairchild. We were the backbone of the defense industry during World War II and after. It was very easy for a Nazi spy to get a job as a custodian, as a janitor in one of those plants and find blueprints. It was a very sophisticated operation, so much so that J. Edgar Hoover met secretly with fdr. I don't know if you ever knew this. Under the Waldorf Astoria, there was a train track, and FDR had a car there, a train car. And Hoover meets with FDR in that train and tells him that he needs more funding for counter espionage activities. Because the Nazis were so powerful and so pervasive.

[Newt Gingrich]

I think we forget how real these kind of activities can become. We see some of it now with the Chinese and the Russians. But in their day, the Nazis were very formidable and Very strategically thoughtful. Now, there's another piece of this, which is initially, there had been an assumption that while we had passed the Hans Stressemann point and we knew it was possible to create a nuclear reaction, virtually nobody thought it was doable as a practical matter. And there's a real argument in the physics community about the plausibility of actually making a nuclear weapon. I mean, you do a marvelous job in bringing in some very important and famous characters from that period. Walk us just for a second through that whole process in which I think initially Einstein is on the side of it's really not doable. And then gradually being serialize it. Gosh, it could be doable, and if the wrong guys get it first, it could be horrifying.

[Steve Israel]

Well, that's exactly right. And that's why I would hope that's one of the major tensions in the book. So little bit of nuclear weapon history. Otto Hahn splits an atom for the first time in December of 1938. He does that in Germany. He's a German physicist. Ironically, by that point, most of the best and smartest physicists in Germany are gone. They're purged, they're expelled, or they leave on their own because of the Nazi movement. He splits the atom. There's a scientist at Columbia University named Leo Szilard, he's kind of an eccentric Hungarian scientist who reads this and says, well, if you split an atom, you can build an atomic bomb. At some point, you can create a chain reaction that will build a bomb capable of immense destruction. He goes to Einstein. This is all part of the public record. He goes to Einstein. He says, Otto Hahn has split an atom that will enable Hitler to get an atom bomb. They have a research program. You must warn President Roosevelt at once. And Einstein says, no, it's not possible. He says, the science just doesn't justify it. He actually says, even if you could split an atom, that doesn't mean you can create a chain reaction that can do anything dangerous. He said, quote, it's like shooting birds in the dark. And he says to Heim, prove it to me. Go back to your lab and prove it to me. And that becomes the interplay between Einstein and Szilard. Einstein remains very skeptical until Szilard drives out to the north fork of Long island in July, forces his way onto Einstein's porch, shows him the data, and only then does Einstein look up and say, why didn't I think of this? And he then realizes, Adolf Hitler is capable of building a bomb that can incinerate cities. And the United States is doing Nothing.

[Newt Gingrich]

I, years ago, had the opportunity to spend some time with Edward Teller, who is great scientists at creating both the atomic bomb and then the hydrogen bomb. Teller said he got involved in this long argument, I think, in the summer of 1940 with Niels Bohr and Copenhagen. And Bohr had said to him, even if you could theoretically do it, the amount of electricity it would take, the amount of energy it would take, he said, it would take the equivalent of a whole country's gdp. Well, four years later, he is walking down the corridor and he sees Niels Bohr at the other end. And Bohr yells at him, you see, I was right, because the Manhattan Project was larger than the entire GDP of Denmark.

[Steve Israel]

That's exactly right.

[Newt Gingrich]

Once FDR was convinced that it was potentially real, the scale of. And it's one of the things that worrying about America today, I'm not sure we could cut through the red tape and mobilize the way they were able to in the 1940s.

[Steve Israel]

This is a moment in time where the American government just realized, we're not debating, we're not deliberating, we're not regulating. We just need to do this. And it happens only because Einstein writes that letter. It's not delivered to fdr. Three months after it's written, they finally get the letter to fdr. Somebody reads it to him because they didn't want FDR just to read it by himself and, you know, just put it in the outbox. They wanted to make sure he understood. And after listening to the letter read to him, FDR says, what they're trying to tell me is that the Germans may be able to blow us all up. He calls in his aide and tells him to do something. That night, calls are made to some scientists. They convene a group of scientists, and that becomes the embryo for the Manhattan Project. So it was quite ad hoc at the time, but it worked.

[Newt Gingrich]

Nitze, who became very important, wrote the preeminent document explaining the strategy of the Cold War, was a financier from New York, was in Texas and gets a call from his boss, Forrestal, who says, you're not going back to New York. You're coming to Washington. Meet me there Monday. He shows up Monday, and Forrestal's on one side of the desk, he's on the other side. They have one phone they're sharing. And Forrestal says, we are now going to finance and structure the industrial development needed for the United States to win World War II. And we'll do our paperwork in about six months. Now, can you imagine today, if somebody walked in, started ordering billions of dollars, had not been sworn in, had not been vetted, and had not finished out any of their paperwork between the news media and the Congress, the level of screaming would be unbelievable. And in 39, 40, 41, that's the way they were working.

[Steve Israel]

That's exactly. Shh.

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[Newt Gingrich]

Today, Most of the people who flee who are intellectuals or Jews. And Einstein actually holds on pretty long and leaves in 33 as Hitler's taking power. If he had not left, my assumption is at a minimum, put him in a concentration camp or maybe just killed him outright. But he clearly understood what was coming and was motivated to move. Despite that, Hitler was insanely anti Semitic. But if he had understood what he was doing to himself, the number of competent people he drives out of the country is astonishing and deeply undermines the German ability to mobilize and use science.

[Steve Israel]

And this is one of the ironies of magnitude in world history is that the Nazis begin to refute what they call dark physics, which is another way of saying Jewish physics. So many Jewish scientists were working in the field and Hitler has to discredit them. And so they create a kind of a new category called Deutsche physics. And now it's Aryan physics. It's not science, it's ideology pretending to be science. To my knowledge, every credible Jewish physicist ends up leaving or is expelled. Fermi, by the way, wasn't Jewish. He lived in Italy with a Jewish woman. And so he leaves Italy to protect his wife. And they deploy to Bern, Switzerland. They're in London, some go to France. Einstein comes to the United States, he teaches in California, he does a national tour. He very much wants to go back to Germany, but he realizes he can't. He ends up in Belgium and France, where the Nazis try and assassinate him, goes to London, and then finally comes to the United States permanently in October of 1933. But what would have happened had those great brilliant scientific minds not converged on America? I don't think we would have had the bomb.

[Newt Gingrich]

And there are dozens of other breakthroughs beyond physics, where we were enormously enriched by the people who came here. A while back, did a PBS documentary called Journey to America which was about people who came here legally and who made such a huge contribution. Einstein was one of them. I think the last interview Kissinger gave, he gave for that particular program. And it's very important to keep this balance, that while we oppose illegal immigration, we desperately need to continue legal immigration and to be willing to attract talent from all over the world. And Einstein is a perfect example.

[Steve Israel]

Yeah, Szilard as well. You know, the guy who actually convinced Einstein was this kind of mad Hungarian scientist who wins a Nobel Prize, comes up with the concept of nuclear fusion, literally standing in front of a stoplight in London that changes from green to red, has this epiphany. When the Reichstag burned, he reportedly went into a bit of a trance, saw the Holocaust coming, packed two bags and fled Berlin, and ends up ultimately in Poupin hall at Columbia University, which is still there.

[Newt Gingrich]

It's amazing. And, of course, Fermi ends up at the University of Chicago.

[Steve Israel]

He's in Chicago. He also spends time in Poupin Hall. You have this extraordinary convergence of Wigner, Szilard, Fermi, and others who are working on the 8th floor of Poupin hall, or at least that's where Szilard's office was, trying to figure out whether splitting a neutron can create a chain reaction and whether that chain reaction can amount to anything.

[Newt Gingrich]

I know you're just now launching the book, and you share my sad understanding that you have to spend as much time selling the book as you spend writing it. But having said that, do you have an inkling yet of what the next book will be? I do.

[Steve Israel]

There's a character in the book who is an FBI agent named James Amos. James Amos was a real person, fascinating guy. He was the second African American to be a special agent in the FBI. The second. In real life, he starts working for Theodore Roosevelt as a caretaker to his children in the White House, then becomes his, quote, manservant, then becomes his bodyguard, then becomes his confidant. And spends Roosevelt's last day and night with him at Sagamore Hill. He becomes this extraordinary FBI agent. He takes down Nazi spy rings, he disrupts Murder Incorporated, and he dies in obscurity in 1954. My book ends with, well, I don't want to do any spoiler alerts, but let's say that there's still a lot of work to be done by the FBI in hunting down particular Nazis. And if this book does well enough, I can see a sequel where James Amos goes on his next adventure to bring down an even more lethal Nazi threat to the United states after World War II begins.

[Newt Gingrich]

Well, of course you have the right kind of personality. Who knows how many adventures he might be in over the course of the next decade. As long as people will buy the book. It's remarkable what you can then get done. Well, I have a good instructor because.

[Steve Israel]

Gettysburg led to a couple of fascinating sequels and other alternate histories and other periods of time. So you know how to do it.

[Newt Gingrich]

Most of my work has been non fiction and I find fiction dramatically more difficult, which is why I'm so impressed with your book. The Einstein Conspiracy Saturday, November 29th is Small Business Saturday. Talk just a little bit about what is Theater of Books gonna do to celebrate Small Business Saturday?

[Steve Israel]

Theater of Books has managed to recruit a very solid author to sign books on that day and his name is Steve Israel. So that's good. So it's good. When you own a store, you can set yourself up for book signing. I'll tell you, I love the notion of shopping local. We have now a bookstore. Mr. Speaker, people come in. Your book March to the Majority is still on the shelves. People come in, they can read Gingrich, they could read Adam Schiff. They're there not to scream, but to learn and to have civil discourse. And I love the locality of the place.

[Newt Gingrich]

I want to thank you for joining me. This has been delightful, as I thought it would be. Your new book, the Einstein Conspiracy, is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, including Theodore's Books in Munster Bay, New York. And I should mention to our listeners Theodoresbooks.com you have a holiday gift guide right there on the homepage. So theodoresbooks.com Steve, thank you so much for joining me.

[Steve Israel]

Thanks. Mr. Speaker, it's an honor.

[Newt Gingrich]

Thank you to my guest, Steve Israel. Newt's World is produced by Gamers360 and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnes E. Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich360. If you've been enjoying Newt's World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Join me on the [e-mail] I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newt Row.

[Steve Israel]

Shh.

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[Steve Israel]

Limited time act now.

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[Steve Israel]

But wait, there's more.

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Is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.