Next Comes What
Episode: How We Got to Fascism
Host/Author: Andrea Pitzer
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Andrea Pitzer delves deep into the alarming rise of fascism within the United States, drawing parallels between historical authoritarian regimes and contemporary political dynamics. In this episode, How We Got to Fascism, Pitzer explores both domestic and international roots of this downward spiral, offering insights into how institutions intended to safeguard democracy have been compromised by corruption and demagoguery.
Introduction: The Cost and Mechanics of Fascism
The episode opens with a stark portrayal of the financial and human costs associated with the rise of authoritarianism in the U.S. Pitzer highlights the misuse of taxpayer dollars, citing, “$8.4 million a day to illegally detain people. How much does it cost for fascism?” (00:00) This sets the stage for a discussion on how democratic institutions have succumbed to corrupt influences.
Historical Context: America’s Own Dark Past
Pitzer challenges the notion that authoritarianism is an external threat, emphasizing the United States' own history of atrocities. “[...] the United States has a long history of doing horrific stuff,” she asserts (01:16). The conversation touches upon the legacy of Native genocide, slavery, Jim Crow, and systemic racism, questioning whether current events are a continuation of this history or part of a global fascist trend.
Vonnegut’s Influence and the Absence of Villains
Reflecting on Kurt Vonnegut’s insights, Pitzer discusses the complexity of villainy in storytelling versus real-life politics. Vonnegut’s idea that “never explain how a villain got that way” (02:34) serves as a metaphor for understanding the multifaceted origins of contemporary authoritarianism. Pitzer notes, “He had no villains in his story, which is not to say that he didn't write about evil and the horrific things that humans can do” (03:00), highlighting the nuanced portrayal of societal villainy.
Modern-Day Authoritarian Tactics: Trump’s Maneuvers
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing former President Donald Trump’s actions, which Pitzer argues are reminiscent of fascist strategies aimed at dismantling democratic institutions. She points to actions such as the misuse of the National Guard in Washington D.C., stating, “Trump is doing because he is underwater, because he is desperate” (07:00). Additionally, the targeting of historically marginalized communities and the undermining of civil rights advancements are scrutinized.
Notable Quotes:
- “Much of what Trump is doing seems aimed at rolling back the historical clock...” (06:19).
- “The District only acquired home rule in my lifetime, and now it's under threat” (07:15).
Global Fascism: Learning from International Examples
Pitzer broadens the scope by examining global instances of fascism and authoritarianism. She references China’s treatment of the Uyghurs, India’s persecution of Muslims in Assam, and Myanmar’s Rohingya crisis to illustrate a worldwide trend of right-wing extremism and human rights abuses (14:37). These examples serve to underscore the pervasive nature of authoritarian tactics across different cultures and governments.
Notable Comparisons:
- China’s Uyghur Camps: “...an estimated 1 million arbitrary detentions...” (14:37).
- India’s Treatment of Muslims: “Thousands are being driven out of their homes...” (15:20).
- Myanmar’s Rohingya: “...forces more than 7 lakh Rohingya to flee...” (15:35).
Historical Lessons: The Imperial Boomerang and Concentration Camps
Pitzer introduces the concept of the "Imperial Boomerang," explaining how internment and concentration camp systems have evolved globally since the late 19th century. By drawing a metaphor of a tree, she illustrates how these systems have deep-rooted origins and diverse manifestations across continents (17:44). She emphasizes that fascism is inherently homegrown, debunking the myth of it being a solely foreign phenomenon.
Key Insights:
- Imperial Roots: Early concentration camps were established by imperial powers, which later influenced wartime internment practices.
- Global Proliferation: Concentration camp systems exist on six continents, each adapted to local cultural and societal contexts.
The Role of Corporatism and Economic Influence
Examining the intersection of government and business, Pitzer argues that contemporary fascism in the U.S. is characterized by corporatism, where business interests are co-opted by the state. She cites the presence of major CEOs at Trump’s inauguration as evidence of the merging of corporate power with political authority (10:54).
Notable Observations:
- Corporate Presence: “The CEOs of Google, Meta, Apple, Tesla, all on the stage during the inauguration” (11:14).
- Economic Control: The potential for government to subjugate businesses mirrors Russian authoritarian models (11:55).
Media and Propaganda: Shifting Narratives
The episode delves into how media and propaganda are utilized to normalize authoritarian agendas. Pitzer highlights instances where Nazi rhetoric and anti-Semitic language have been co-opted by Trump’s campaign, noting, “America is for Americans and Americans only” (14:01). This manipulation of language and symbols serves to rally support for exclusionary and repressive policies.
Key Points:
- Nazi Tropes: The use of these historical symbols in modern politics.
- Defense Secretary’s Role: Criticism of figures like Pete Hegseth who promote regressive views on women's rights (14:37).
Echoes of the Cold War: Surveillance and Control
Pitzer draws parallels between Cold War-era tactics and current government approaches to security and surveillance. She explains how the Cold War shifted U.S. policies towards prioritizing order over democratic principles, leading to the marginalization of certain groups under the guise of national security (20:29).
Notable Comparisons:
- US vs. Soviet Models: Adoption of surveillance and repression tactics reminiscent of Soviet Gulags.
- War on Terror: The broad application of security measures targeting entire communities, particularly Muslims (22:05).
Breaking the Cycle: Hope and Action
Despite the grim outlook, Pitzer offers a message of hope, emphasizing the power of collective action and historical awareness to combat authoritarianism. She argues that by understanding both domestic and international histories, Americans can better recognize and dismantle fascist mechanisms. Pitzer urges listeners to focus on local changes where they can make a tangible difference, inspired by historical figures who have successfully resisted oppressive systems.
Encouraging Quotes:
- “We still have the ability to take him down. The more we highlight his abuses and cruelty, the worse his ratings become” (26:10).
- “Understanding what's happening as the centuries-long unfolding of domestic forces and global movements can help to reframe the task” (27:43).
Conclusion: A Call to Vigilance and Virtue
Andrea Pitzer concludes the episode by reiterating the importance of vigilance and virtuous action in the face of rising fascism. Drawing from Kurt Vonnegut’s philosophy, she affirms, “it seems to me that it's no more trouble to be virtuous than to be vicious” (27:47). Pitzer encourages listeners to remain realistic yet hopeful, advocating for focused efforts to protect democratic values and human rights.
Final Thoughts
How We Got to Fascism serves as a powerful examination of the factors contributing to the resurgence of authoritarianism in the United States and around the world. Andrea Pitzer effectively weaves historical analysis with contemporary observations, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the challenges ahead and the paths available to counteract them.
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This summary is intended for informational purposes and reflects the contents of the podcast episode as provided.