Podcast
Next Comes What
Hosted by Andrea Pitzer · EN
Author Andrea Pitzer reveals what we can learn from the rise of strongmen around the world to thwart Trump and his allies.
87episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Breaking ICE
Yesterday00:31:21Summary readyA panoramic review of immigrant persecution under Trump 2.0 so far and a look at where we are now. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/breaking-ice WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/cJ-puSPNlHs TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews LISTEN Everywhere: https://pod.link/1779885475 This week, Andrea Pitzer reviews what has happened with the Trump administration's strategic violence against immigrants in the U.S. during the year and a half since his return to office. Andrea mentions three crises that the government hopes people will simply ignore, but which are causing tremendous suffering: cuts to USAID, climate change, and the systemic persecution of immigrants. All three are critical to attend to, but for this episode, she focuses on what has happened since January 2025 on the immigration front. Running through the Trump administration's attempts to use wartime laws to deport detainees to a gulag in El Salvador, and Stephen Miller's longstanding dream of building tent cities, she shows how those dreams played out in reality. Those deported to El Salvador faced horrific abuse, and two tent-style concentration camp projects led to Camp East Montana at Fort Bliss in Texas, and the Everglades camp in Florida that the administration named "Alligator Alcatraz." Both camps have inflicted tremendous suffering on detainees. The Florida camp has been shut down, but Camp East Montana still holds thousands of detainees. The tent-city project went badly enough that the government has pivoted repeatedly to other approaches, including a short-lived attempt to use Navy overseas contracting architecture to build concentration camps domestically. This also hit roadblocks. Next, Trump and his allies turned to trying to acquire existing warehouses and retrofit them for Amazon-style mass detention in a nationwide network of concentration camps. Local resistance to these sites was fierce and fast. Now the government is pivoting to building new facilities at sites it already owns or controls, which will make pushing back against them a more complicated and challenging effort. Andrea closes the episode with a few thoughts on how people have resisted thus far, and the innovating spirit that has inspired everyday people to find novel and effective means to put sand in the gears of the deportation machine. 00:00 - Introduction & The Three Growing Crises 03:15 - Day One: Early Moves & Expanding ICE Power 06:42 - Tent Cities & The Everglades Detention Infrastructure 10:15 - Federalizing Police & Los Angeles Deployments 13:50 - Border Operations & Community Resistance Tactics 17:30 - Minneapolis Crackdown & Gregory Bovino's Removal 21:10 - Warehouse Expansion: ICE's Strategic Shift 25:05 - Local Movements Stopping Detention Centers 28:40 - The History of Camp Resistance & Lessons Ahead
Summary
Despots, Cockroaches, and Flamingos
1w ago00:29:53Summary readyIndia and Albania reveal how small protests can transform into big movements, creating possibilities for massive change. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/roots-for-real-change WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/CRVe4pVKoIM TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews Listen everywhere: https://pod.link/1779885475 This week's Next Comes What considers what can be learned from overseas movements for political change. Andrea Pitzer reviews a few big examples she's discussed before, from Brazil and South Korea to Hungary. But she points out that these countries, which were able to prosecute and or expel corrupt authoritarians from power, are examples of the end stages of political movements. For today's episode, she looks instead at countries that are earlier in the same process. In Albania, she traces political protests and dissatisfaction that rose in the wake of parliamentary elections last year. This generalized anger found a flash point and a symbol with the attempts of Jared Kushner and Invanka Trump this year to develop an environmentally fragile part of the country as a high-end resort. Anger over what appears to be government corruption in opening the region to development has galvanized the people and led to what is being called the Flamingo Revolution: massive protests of a kind not seen in the country in decades. In India, student anger of a lack of jobs and opportunities for the country's young adults exploded after a chief justice described them as cockroaches. Seizing on the nickname, the students formed a Cockroach People's Party. The online movement expanded into physical protests in New Delhi. After police violence against protesters, demonstrations multiplied across India, eventually securing the resignation of the education minister and other promised concessions. Both movements are still in the early stages, but Andrea highlights the examples they offer for everyday people on ways to make a stand against authoritarian government. The episode closes by outlining how a focus on local issues can be a potent force for fighting Trumpism here in the U.S. 00:00 – Everyday Resistance & The Limits of Authoritarian Power 03:30 – Defeating ICE: How Local Communities Blocked PA Detention Facilities 06:45 – Dismantling Authoritarian Infrastructure: The Closure of Alligator Alcatraz 10:00 – Albania's Flamingo Revolution: Resisting Jared Kushner's Island Development 15:30 – India's Cockroach Janata Party: Youth Uprising Against Exam Scandals & Modi 20:45 – Student Activism Under Fire: ICE Arrests, Columbia Expulsions & UMich Indictments 25:00 – Symbols of Resistance: Lessons from Serbia's Otpor! Movement 28:30 – Organizing for Long-Term Political Change
Summary
Booed, Sued, and Blocked
2w ago00:25:38Summary readyEvery day, people are showing how we can stop Trump's dismantling of our laws and norms by using both to fight back. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/what-gets-booed-and-who-gets-sued WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/FEptYLVSnSU TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews Our episode this week looks at how the current administration has violated both laws and customs on every front to try to profit from government positions and maximize Trump's power across the board. Andrea Pitzer shows how, from business corruption to ICE detention and the war in Iran, it's nearly impossible to keep track of the ways in which the president is destroying the rule of law and any willingness to respect precedent, in and out of courts. Exploring the use of the rule of law as a weapon against vulnerable and targeted groups since the country's founding, Andrea outlines why the law itself has often been a force for wrong. She nevertheless argues that the history of authoritarianism shows that when existing law is ignored or dismantled through dictatorial power grabs, it consistently exacerbates the crisis faced by vulnerable groups, and others as well. Andrea then goes through recent broad reviews of everything from ICE detention practices to court cases brought by the DOJ. While precedent is being ground down, and the legal system remains under tremendous strain, Andrea points out how the law is still being used successfully to deny Trump and his allies the unlimited power they want. She looks at how communities are establishing and upholding norms as well. From a refusal of a New Jersey town council to do business with a bank partnering with major ICE contractors to a Baltimore rugby team that is standing by its trans players, there are examples everywhere of everyday people finding effective ways to push back against hatred and corruption. 00:00 — Executive Corruption & The Kazakhstan Mineral Deal 02:30 — Alien Terrorist Removal Court & Iran War Casualties 06:15 — Human Rights Violations in ICE Youth Detention 09:40 — ACLU Report: Law Enforcement Liability & Abuse 12:20 — Supreme Court Forces E. Jean Carroll $5.6M Payout 14:50 — Federal Judges Block DOJ Voter Roll Seizure 17:15 — Failed DOJ Prosecutions: Marimar Martinez & David Hern 20:00 — Holding ICE & Stephen Miller Accountable in Court 22:10 — Grassroots Victories: Montclair $91M Bank Divestment 24:30 — Local Resistance: Communities Protecting Trans Athletes
Summary
Little Gitmos Everywhere
3w ago00:24:48Summary readyA new U.S. government call for contractors aims to set up a global network of concentration camps, and your representatives likely don't know about it yet. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/little-gitmos-everywhere WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/tHHxhiDu5S4 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews LISTEN Everywhere else: https://pod.link/1779885475 This week's episode of "Next Comes What" looks at a new U.S. government document seeking private contractors for disturbing partnerships. A lot of the "statement of work" describes maintaining an air fleet and permits to support deportation operations, but the document also makes reference to 1,000-bed sites, "detention facilities," and "detainees" in other countries. Andrea Pitzer walks listeners through key passages in the document, first discovered by Charles Davis, and shows how it will lead to the creation of a global network of concentration camps run by the United States. Recounting the Trumpist use of third-country deportation networks, Andrea explains how the improvised partnerships are hardening into trafficking relationships with other countries, soon to be followed by dedicated detention facilities. She explores the history of prior offshore camps, from Guantanamo to Australian payments to other nations for detention on Manus and Nauru. In each case, the lack of oversight and direct access resulted in tremendous harm. The U.S. appears to be up to a year away from executing this plan, giving everyday people a chance to intervene and stop it. The episode closes with suggestions on how to take action now. 0:00 Introduction: ICE's Secret Plan for Global Detention Camps 2:05 Breaking Down the SAM.gov Contractor Solicitation 5:32 What Are "International Staging Areas" (ISAs)? 8:58 The CECOT Blueprint: How El Salvador Became the Template 14:50 Third Country Detention: 21,000 Deported and Counting 16:04 Lessons from History: Guantanamo, Australia's Nauru, and Operation Condor 19:10 The Privatization Problem: Who Profits from Offshore Detention 22:42 How to Stop This Before It's Too Late
SummaryIs Trumpism contagious?
4w ago00:23:53Summary readySupport for authoritarianism can spread person to person, like a disease. Here's how to stop it. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/trumpism-as-social-contagion LISTEN anywhere: https://pod.link/1779885475 WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/TavBG70k3pQ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews In this week's episode, Andrea Pitzer looks at recent research suggesting that support for authoritarianism spreads socially from person to person. Researchers from the University of Oslo in Norway and the Norwegian Defense Research Establishment surveyed recruits before and after boot camp and found that those assigned to peers with greater support for authoritarian rule would end up adjusting their views to support strongmen too. The authors also surveyed Norwegians outside the original military setting, as well as 25,000 others from nearly 30 countries. Andrea considers the results in light of other ideas about authoritarianism and ponders how the reverse effect might work—whether making others aware of one's rejection of authoritarian rule might likewise be "contagious." The episode closes with a list of ways to think about reestablishing democracy and better safeguarding it in the US. Get ONE LONG NIGHT: A Global History of Concentration Camps by Andrea Pitzer https://bookshop.org/p/books/one-long-night-a-global-history-of-concentration-camps-andrea-pitzer/ea53c06c993f6ad0?ean=9780316303569 0:00 Why Trumpism Is Contagious: Democracy Under Siege 0:25 Rush Limbaugh, Fox News & The Collapse of American Democracy 1:40 How Propaganda Shapes Authoritarian Movements Worldwide 2:26 The Study: Is Support for Authoritarian Rule Contagious? 3:29 Norway Boot Camp Experiment: How Peer Pressure Spreads Authoritarianism 6:32 The Psychology Behind Why People Support Strongmen 8:54 Cultural Backlash: Pippa Norris on the Rise of the Authoritarian Right 13:33 The Three Components of Authoritarianism Explained 16:01 How Populist Rhetoric Destroys Trust in Democracy 19:58 How to Fight Back Against the Authoritarian Contagion
SummaryHow NOT to Speedrun a Dictatorship
Jul 300:29:04Summary readyTrump's goons got the oppression flowchart backward. Now they're trying to fix it, but we can foil their plans. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/shut-them-down-round-them-up LISTEN everywhere else: https://pod.link/1779885475 WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/v0Yv7ETEb_o TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews This week's episode looks at the typical arc of concentration camp societies, laying out how authoritarian governments use violence against both scapegoated communities and their political opposition. Andrea Pitzer outlines how strongmen often start with destroying the ability to dissent before rounding up whole communities of scapegoated groups. Then she discusses the ways in which the second Trump administration has reversed this order. Coming out of the gate in 2025 with massive roundups of immigrants into camps, his team didn't successfully clamp down on protests and free speech beforehand. As a result, they revealed their weakness and the strength of the majority of the country that disapproves of their mission or their tactics. Andrea describes the shift in tactics as Trump's allies try to reverse this error, moving from scattered, mostly incompetent attempts at prosecution into a more targeted and dangerous phase. Their best hope lies in ending dissent before the November elections, so the coming months will likely become even more dangerous. The episode closes with ways to respond, underlining the importance of showing up and speaking out. 0:00 — How Trump's Second Term Tried to End Democracy—and Where It Went Wrong 0:41 — The Speedrun to Authoritarianism: Why Trump's Power Grab Is Failing 2:53 — Mass Deportations, ICE Violence, and the Overreach of Trump's Second Term 5:58 — Ideologues vs. Mercenaries: The Split Inside the Trump Administration 6:14 — How Concentration Camps Get Built: Lessons from History for Today's America 7:52 — Why Crushing Dissent Requires Crushing Opposition First—and Trump Skipped That Step 11:34 — The Crackdown on Protesters: From Sandwich Guys to Terrorism Charges 12:51 — Media Censorship, Algorithmic Suppression, and the War on Free Speech Under Trump 19:47 — The Most Dangerous Moment in Decades: What Comes Next in Trump's Power Grab 24:52 — How to Resist the Trump Authoritarian Project Before the 2026 Elections
SummaryTurning the World to $hit
Jun 2500:32:14Summary readyWe are in the midst of the deliberate worsening of every aspect of existence. But we don't have to accept it. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/turning-the-world-to-shit Listen everywhere: https://pod.link/1779885475 WATCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/KgOVkFaWci8 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews This week, "Next Comes What" considers the enshittification of the world. Andrea Pitzer lays out Cory Doctorow's theory of how the internet got ruined and then extends that concept to the deliberate destruction of nearly every aspect of modern life by government and tech companies globally. (You can read more about the concept in Doctorow's book, Enshittification.) Andrea considers the enshittification of detention in the U.S., and the parallel destruction of any functioning parts of immigration in the country. Together, those have led to the expansion of concentration camp detention through ICE campaigns and DHS policy. She also takes on the enshittification of health care and climate policy, and discusses how these shifts make the public more dependent on authoritarian leaders just to survive. People become reluctant to demand more, for fear that the system will unleash even more punishment. Andrea considers the ways that the unmasking of secret meetings under the auspices of tech giants reveal how the stage is set for further disempowerment and enshittification of daily life. The episode closes with a look at the importance of radical hope and ways to imagine a better world, which can begin with tackling specific, concrete policies close to home. 0:00 – What Is Enshittification? Cory Doctorow's Term Explained 1:27 – Google's Enshittification: How Search Results Got Worse 2:44 – Enshittification Beyond Tech: From Politics to Daily Life 5:51 – Fascism and Enshittification: A Century-Old Playbook Returns 9:06 – Policing, Detention, and the Weaponization of Concentration Camps 11:17 – Immigration Policy Enshittified: Refugees, Detention, and Global Crackdowns 17:09 – Climate Crisis, Water Bankruptcy, and the Manufactured Supercrisis 18:11 – Healthcare Under Attack: DOGE Cuts, Medicaid, and the NHS 19:14 – Propaganda, AI, and the Billionaire War on Reality 24:35 – How to Fight Back: Civil Rights, Renewable Energy, and Demanding Better
SummaryProfiting off forced labor in ICE camps
Jun 1800:30:42Summary readyConcentration camps using forced labor are alive and well today in America. But there's a lot we can do to put an end to them. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/forced-labor-in-concentration-camps Listen everywhere: https://pod.link/1779885475 WATCH TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews This week's episode of "Next Comes What" tackles the use of forced labor of detainees at ICE facilities around the country. Andrea Pitzer looks at the massive expansion of profit from the country's two largest detention contractors, GEO Group and CoreCivic, and details the hunger and labor strikes detainees have been conducting nationwide. She also considers the history of forced labor in concentration camps around the globe in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. Beginning with German genocide on Shark Island in what is today Namibia, she also describes how mandatory work was used in Soviet Russia, under British rule in Kenya, in post-Revolutionary China, and elsewhere. In each country, the international trend of concentration camps fused with preexisting local history and culture to create different models of forced labor. In the case of the U.S., Andrea suggests that mandatory work in ICE detention rises out of the long use of prison labor. Noting that the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution left in place a slave-labor exception for convicts, she traces the way that arrests and convict leasing continued the work conditions of slavery for many Black men and boys in the wake of the Civil War, despite emancipation. Yet forced labor in ICE detention adds another layer of injustice, in that the vast majority of people held in immigration detention don't even have charges filed against them, let alone a conviction. Andrea closes the episode with a look at ways that people have fought back under extraordinary conditions in the past and are resisting now--including ideas for those looking to eliminate forced labor in the US and to abolish ICE. 0:00 Introduction – Delaney Hall strikes & forced labor in ICE detention today 3:13 Overview – A survey of forced labor in concentration camp settings 5:45 Nazi work camps – Forced labor from 1933 through WWII 6:55 Why detention makes forced labor worse – expendability, punishment, profit 9:44 Pre-Nazi precedents – Shark Island / German Southwest Africa (early 1900s) 10:33 World War I – Ukrainian Canadians interned as "enemy aliens" in Alberta 12:09 The Russian Revolution & Gulag – Forced labor under the Bolsheviks 12:26 The Gulag system – Expansion, quotas, starvation rations, the Dead Road 15:01 Post-WWII & the Iron Curtain – Western vs. Soviet models of camp labor 18:00 US domestic roots – Slavery, the 13th Amendment exception, convict leasing 22:01 Scale of deportation – The administration's 15–20 million target 24:46 Resistance – Gulag uprisings, Free Alabama Movement, the Menocal lawsuit 27:42 What you can do – Calls to action, spotlighting strikes near you 30:21 Outro .
Summary
White solidarity dooms democracy
Jun 1100:30:10Tap to summarizeRace nostalgia has infected nearly every political argument made today. A look at what it is and how to stop it. Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/race-nostalgia-as-social-blight LISTEN wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.link/1779885475 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews This week, Andrea Pitzer considers the prioritization of white South Africans in US refugee policy, noting that they make up literally the only refugees currently being admitted to the United States. She explores how that policy is part of a larger map of racial grievance that has already led to the death of hundreds of thousands of people of color around the globe--a choice enthusiastically embraced by the current administration. Laying out a theory of the angry daddy as the model deliberately adopted by Trump and his fellow travelers, Andrea explores how it gets injected into politics as a promise to not only provide for the chosen followers of the leader, but also to punish those deemed less worthy. Walking listeners through the ways that solidarity with racially aggrieved white communities frames the entire political enterprise running the government today, Andrea then turns to the ways the same concept likewise animates the strategies adopted by those who see themselves as opposing Trump. She questions the tendency to seek macho white male candidates, as if these are the only politicians capable of securing democracy. Looking at the recent expanded damage to the Voting Rights Act inflicted by the Supreme Court and the frenzy of gerrymandering it has unleashed, Andrea explains how the tendency to raise up white men as savior candidates on the left will only speed and amplify the disappearance of candidates of color from office nationwide. The episode closes with some way to think about taking action to address the corruption and crony networks that make this kind of resegregation possible. 0:00 White South African Refugees and Trump's Race-Based Immigration Policy 1:16 The $100 Million Taxpayer Cost of Afrikaner Refugee Policy 3:27 White Solidarity and the Roots of MAGA Race Nostalgia 7:22 Strict Father Politics: How Authoritarian Psychology Drives Voter Behavior 12:25 Strategic Racism: How Politicians Use Dog Whistles to Divide America 17:26 USAID Cuts and the Hidden Cost of White Refugee Policy 20:42 Andrew Sullivan, Demographic Change, and the Eugenics Trap 23:41 Democrats Adopting White Solidarity Tactics to Win Back Voters 28:18 How to Fight Corruption and White Supremacy at the Local Level
Transcribe →What should Democrats be doing? NOT THIS!
Jun 400:28:33Summary readyWhy are elected Democrats punishing the very people who voted for them? Support Next Comes What + Get Andrea's posts FIRST: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/subscribe Read the post: https://degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/when-leaders-don-t-lead WATCH: https://youtu.be/lQZseXoDs7E LISTEN ANYWHERE: https://pod.link/1779885475 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@degenerateartnews This week's episode tackles the tendency to criticize Democrats when Republicans are the principal drivers of authoritarianism in the U.S.right now. Andrea Pitzer tries to answer the perennial question "What do you want Democrats to do, if they don't control any branch of government?" Her response boils down to giving examples of harmful actions from several Democrats voters had hoped would do more. She considers Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer's recent appearance with Israeli finance minister Bezalel Smotrich, who has endorsed genocide against Palestinians and encouraged violence in the West Bank. She also considers recent actions taken by three governors: Abigail Spanberger of Virginia, Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey, and Jared Polis of Colorado. These Democratic governors have undercut their party and democracy alike—in one case by pardoning an unrepentant criminal election denier who betrayed her office, in others by inviting the state police to brutalize demonstrators or by ignoring the will of the people and the legislators of her own party. 0:00 – What Do Voters Want From Democrats Right Now? 1:18 – Democrats Acting Like an Opposition Party: Early Examples 5:35 – Chuck Schumer's Failure to Lead 7:18 – Schumer at the Israel Day Parade With Bezalel Smotrich 8:59 – Virginia Governor Spanberger's Veto Spree Against Her Own Party 12:53 – Colorado Governor Polis Frees Election Denier Tina Peters 15:33 – Delaney Hall: What's Happening Inside the Newark ICE Detention Facility 21:27 – Mayor Ras Baraka vs. Governor Sherrill: Who's Actually Fighting Back? 26:23 – Why Democratic Politicians Must Oppose Authoritarianism — Lessons From History
Summary