What should Democrats be doing? NOT THIS!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Next Comes What

Host: Andrea Pitzer
Episode: "What should Democrats be doing? NOT THIS!"
Air Date: June 4, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Andrea Pitzer explores what Democrats should—and should not—be doing in the face of rising authoritarianism in the U.S., drawing lessons from the global history of strongmen and warning against complacency and complicity. She critiques both Republican and Democratic leaders, highlighting cases where Democrats failed to offer meaningful opposition to Trump-era policies. Pitzer argues for a more active, public stance by Democratic politicians and greater engagement from citizens and activists.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Democrats as a Lackluster Opposition (00:00–03:10)

• Discontent among voters toward Democratic leadership, especially Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.
  • Quote: “I asked the audience, who here thinks that Chuck Schumer is doing a good job as the leader? 350 people, not a single hand went up.” (Political Analyst, 00:08)
• Democrats sometimes act as if substantive action is impossible without full power, despite controlling federal government at points.
• Some Democrats, such as Andy Kim and Maxwell Frost, are praised for grassroots leadership and efforts defending detainees’ rights.

2. Examples of Ground-Level Leadership (01:18–02:45)

• Sen. Andy Kim and Rep. Maxwell Frost highlighted for direct involvement at detention facilities.
  • Kim witnessed inhumane conditions at Delaney Hall; Frost exposed abuses at "Alligator Alcatraz" in the Everglades.
  • Quote: “I had a man show me a container of milk that was curdled solid because it was clearly not stored properly.” (Political Analyst, 01:53)
  • Both faced violence and adversity while advocating for humane immigration policy.

3. Failures of Democratic (and Republican) Leadership (03:10–06:43)

• Democrats criticized for incrementalism, centrism, and failing to push back forcefully against the Trump administration.
• Notable examples:
  • Schumer’s participation in the Israel Day parade alongside far-right Israeli figures;
  • Marco Rubio’s unanimous, bipartisan confirmation as Secretary of State;
  • Some Democrats joining Republicans on legislation favoring the crypto industry.

4. Critique of Centrism & Complicity (06:40–13:19)

• Pitzer decries centrism as a brake on meaningful action and a tool to preserve the status quo, not oppose authoritarian moves.
• Virginia Governor Abigail Spanberger singled out for vetoing progressive legislation passed by her own party.
  • Quote: “In less than six months as governor, Spanberger has vetoed some 40 bills passed by members of her own party, members elected last November by the people to take action.” (Andrea Pitzer, 09:31)
  • Spanberger also blocked attempts to end tax exemptions for data centers and limited collective bargaining rights.
• Colorado Governor Jared Polis censured for undermining democracy by commuting the sentence of an election official (Tina Peters) convicted in the 2020 election aftermath.

5. Democratic Collaboration with Authoritarian Policies (15:33–24:21)

• Pitzer exposes complicity at state level:
  • New Jersey Governor Mikie Sherrill deployed state police against hunger strike protesters at Delaney Hall ICE facility.
  • Protesters and investigative journalists report brutal police tactics (beatings, projectiles, tear gas).
  • Pitzer: “Any governor or elected official who does not understand that what is undergirding every crisis…is police state power…is failing their job.” (Andrea Pitzer, 17:33)
• Praises Newark Mayor Ross Baraka’s efforts to hold authorities accountable and replace state police with local officers.

6. Concrete Acts of Resistance and the Power of Protest (24:23–28:08)

• The struggle at Delaney Hall is linked to global patterns of migrant detention and authoritarian creep (e.g., EU’s new migrant detention policies, historical context from Europe and South Korea).
• Courageous acts by officials like Rep. Lamonica McIver, charged for protesting and continuing oversight work, are lauded.
• Pitzer stresses the importance of public protest, supporting detainees, and building coalitions for meaningful resistance.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Democratic inaction:
  • “They're doing as much or more to counter the Democrats who elected them as they are to push back against an administration that is actively dismantling democracy itself.”
    (Andrea Pitzer, 05:05)
• On centrism and its cost:
  • “If what being a centrist really means is you cannot actually make any significant changes for the better, yet your opponents will come in and change things for the worst, then it only becomes possible to make the system worse and worse over time.”
    (Andrea Pitzer, 11:49)
• On state-level complicity:
  • “Abetting those gross abuses of power is disastrous.”
    (Andrea Pitzer, 18:13)
• On protest and accountability:
  • “Opposition politicians must be mindful of the fact that their role is in part to preserve the ability to stand meaningfully, dramatically and publicly against the government, even if it draws fire in some cases, because it will draw fire.”
    (Andrea Pitzer, 25:53)

---

Important Segments with Timestamps

• 00:08 – Chuck Schumer’s lack of support among Democratic base.
• 01:18–02:45 – Examples of direct action: Andy Kim and Maxwell Frost.
• 06:40–07:18 – Criticism of centrism and lack of real opposition.
• 09:31–10:47 – Governor Spanberger’s vetoes and impact on democracy.
• 13:19–14:41 – Release and rehabilitation of Tina Peters in Colorado.
• 15:33–18:13 – Delaney Hall abuses, police violence, and Democratic complicity.
• 21:09–22:39 – Praise for Mayor Baraka and Rep. McIver’s activism.
• 24:15–25:35 – Global context: migrant detention policies in the EU.
• 25:53–26:10 – Responsibilities of opposition politicians in authoritarian moments.
• 26:23–28:08 – The power and importance of grassroots protest and solidarity.

---

Conclusion & Call to Action

Andrea Pitzer closes by reiterating that authoritarianism thrives when opposition parties fall into routine or centrism rather than actively opposing injustice. She urges both politicians and citizens to break out of inertia: showing up, protesting, and holding all leaders accountable—not just Republicans, but Democrats who enable harmful policies as well. Young activists and officials who risk their own standing for justice set a crucial example for what meaningful opposition looks like.

---

For further engagement, listeners are encouraged to support those fighting on the ground, stay aware of both local and global authoritarian trends, and demand courageous action from all levels of leadership.

Transcript

[Andrea Pitzer]

When voters complain about Democrats and they do so sometimes more than they do Republicans running the federal government and a lot of states as well.

[Political Analyst]

I asked the audience, who here thinks that Chuck Schumer is doing a good job as the leader? 350 people, not a single hand went up.

[Andrea Pitzer]

They're sometimes met with suggestions that taking substantive and non performative action when you don't have any real power just isn't possible.

[Political Analyst]

They control the House, the Senate and the presidency. It's their government.

[Andrea Pitzer]

So people say, what do you want them to do?

[Activist or Community Organizer]

What leverage do we have?

[Andrea Pitzer]

The general response that I've seen is that people want the Democrats to act like an opposition party.

[Political Analyst]

The other thing that I think really jumped out in our NBC poll that took a hit during this shutdown was the Republicans standing in the generic congressional ballot. Suddenly Democrats in our poll had opened up an eight point advantage over Republicans again. When we had checked in earlier in the year, this number was basically dead even.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And actions outside the halls of electoral power are possible. It's good to be home.

[Political Analyst]

Yeah.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Now we need to end the illegal abduction of Kilmar Abego Garcia and bring him home too. On Friday, I wrote in Degenerate Art about some of the Democrats who have been acting like an opposition party. I mentioned New Jersey Senator Andy Kim.

[Political Analyst]

Delaney hall is not just some one single bad apple. You know, this is a systemic failure.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And Florida Congressman Maxwell Frost.

[Political Analyst]

We can't allow this place to shut down and then just forget about it.

[Andrea Pitzer]

As examples of leadership on the ground from officials in office, I rise today

[Political Analyst]

to share stories that I heard from detainees and families at Delaney hall and to tell you why these stories should be a call to action to ground our immigration policies in humanity.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The former met with families inside Delaney hall detention facility in Newark.

[Political Analyst]

I had a man show me a container of milk that was curdled solid because it was clearly not stored properly

[Andrea Pitzer]

and was tear gassed trying to protect the crowd of demonstrators as he emerged.

[Political Analyst]

My throat was burning. It was something that was really painful to watch. I mean, Chris, I'll tell you, like I have to say, the ease with which it seems like violence is emerging in our streets in America. We cannot normalize this. Violence in America should not be easy. It should not be inevitable.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The latter has gone repeatedly to the Everglades concentration camp called Alligator Alcatraz by the White House.

[Political Analyst]

Detainees are exposed to the heat, wildlife, mosquitoes that can potentially carry disease, stripped of their civil rights, and as of this past Saturday, cut off from legal

[Andrea Pitzer]

counsel to assess changing conditions of confinement there.

[Political Analyst]

This was an embarrassing and tragic experiment in the suffering of people.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But today I'm going to do the opposite of that Praise session.

[Political Analyst]

So many of our elected leaders have

[Andrea Pitzer]

failed that this American trap tragedy can

[Political Analyst]

only be stopped by the American people.

[Andrea Pitzer]

You I'm going to address recent actions by political leaders that show a real failure to meet the moment.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Governor Whitmer also in attendance. The barn, as this data center campus

[Andrea Pitzer]

is called, will be full of servers and hard drives. And the big concern from the community has long been water consumption. Are there Republican officials that show a real failure to meet the moment as well?

[Political Analyst]

Will you implement court orders when they tell you to stop?

[Andrea Pitzer]

Absolutely yes.

[Political Analyst]

You're making an assumption on court orders. I have.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Will you or will you not?

[Political Analyst]

I am going to enforce law.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The cowardice and corruption of Republican leaders is in almost every case worse than that of any individual elected Democratic official right now.

[Political Analyst]

For example, in President Trump's refugee policies, one of our most successful immigration programs by far has been the admission of Africana refugees.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But that said, the Democrats need to be doing more.

[Political Analyst]

The senate passed a 45 day extension of one of the most sweeping surveillance powers in American law under the pretext that Congress will use the time to negotiate some real reforms. Don't let that fool you. This is just the latest chapter in a long bipartisan habit of treating warrantless access to your private communications as a feature of the law, not a bug.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And all this matters not only in the everyday sense of politicians who should be mindful of their political power and how they use it. Typically in concentration camp societies, legislators have been sidelined by authoritarian governments that manage to disempower or corrupt the opposition. Governors or their equivalents have also been removed or replaced. So are Democratic electeds currently doing some good things for constituents this very moment?

[Political Analyst]

Kids have one extra reason to celebrate today. A mayor.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Mom Donnie repealed bedtime on days the Knicks play in the finals.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Yes, usually, sometimes. But simultaneously, many Democratic politicians seem to see themselves as referees.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

You can't come up with ideas in our wonderful friends in California and New York and expect that it's going to work in a place like Idaho, Michigan.

[Andrea Pitzer]

They're doing as much or more to counter the Democrats who elected them as they are to push back against an administration that is actively dismantling democracy itself.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

The big headline is that Marco Rubio has been confirmed as Secretary of State. And not only confirmed, but confirmed unanimously. And in a bipartisan vote, 99 to 0 was the final tally.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Others are embracing criminality or corruption, doing the work of the White House to further destroy the country.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

The crypto industry just notched a major win with the Senate Banking Committee going ahead and advancing a rules of the road crypto bill that has really been the industry's number one priority.

[Andrea Pitzer]

They did it with all Republican support. Two Democrats did join today. I'll give you some examples and explain why they're a serious problem. I won't pretend that elected officials don't have a challenge. They do have to actually meet with their opponents and debate or vote on bills of shared interest. They have to actually conduct the everyday business of government while also trying to make a difference outside the halls of power that they don't currently control. But in my opinion, the fact that they spend time with these political opponents as peers conducting business means they actually have a greater obligation to show themselves as the opposition in the halls of power and in other settings as often as they can. There is no one coming to save us. We've got to do it ourselves. Chuck Schumer, the Senate Minority Leader has come in for the lion's share of Criticism. For years.

[Political Analyst]

350 people, not a single hand went

[Andrea Pitzer]

up and there's no doubt that he's put in a difficult position by having multiple roles to play.

[Field Correspondent]

Any minute now the Israeli forces could raid this community and forcibly evict its

[Andrea Pitzer]

residents because of the sense that that he is beholden to high office and is more interested in the trappings of power than in helping his constituents.

[Field Correspondent]

They're responding to an order by the Israeli Finance Minister Betsaleir Smotresh, who said that he signed an order to displace his community.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But this week he solidly earned the condemnation he's received by walking in the Israel Day parade in New York City.

[Field Correspondent]

It may look peaceful now. A 10 year old Palestinian, Hussein Jahelin, tells us how Israeli settlers raid the village at night, steal their sheep and intimidate.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Attending the parade meant appearing with far right Israeli political figures, including Finance Minister Basalo Smotrich, a man who has threatened to evict the residents of a Palestinian Bedouin village in the west bank if the International Criminal Court issues an arrest warrant for him.

[Field Correspondent]

The Israeli government has advanced its so called E1 plan. It stands for East 1 and aims to connect the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied west bank with Israeli annexed occupied East Jerusalem.

[Andrea Pitzer]

As Haaretz has noted, Smotrich has made calls for genocide.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Some of Israel's closest allies have condemned comments made by Minister Bezalel smotrich about letting 2 million Palestinians die of hunger

[Andrea Pitzer]

along With Schumer, New York Governor Kathy Hochul and New York State Attorney General Tish James also attended that parade.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Smotrich claimed that it might be justified, it might be moral to let them starve.

[Andrea Pitzer]

This was not some official delegation negotiating Israeli policy or addressing the war in Iran or recent atrocities in the west bank or Gaza.

[Field Correspondent]

International pressure and media attention have saved the community from previous evictions. But people here say Israel is more emboldened now and fear that the eviction is more imminent.

[Andrea Pitzer]

A man promoting a genocide, wanted for it potentially in the not distant future was accompanied by the leader of the Democrats in the United States Senate for no higher moral purpose than a photo opportunity. And meanwhile, back in my home state.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Let's just get it out of the way.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Governor Abigail Spanberger has been quietly doing something worse than morally compromised photo opportunities.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Union leaders in the Commonwealth are not happy with your veto of collective bargaining legislation that would allow public workers to, to form unions and do all the things that unions do for workers.

[Andrea Pitzer]

She has been using her office to limit the ability of representatives in her state to take action.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Why did you do that after expressing support for such legislation during your campaign?

[Andrea Pitzer]

In less than six months as governor, Spamberger has vetoed some 40 bills passed by members of her own party, members elected last November by the people to take action.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

So I continue to support public sector collective bargaining and I continue to look forward to a place where we'll have a bill that I'll sign into law.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Rather than trying to do after action shaping and signing the bills as a goodwill measure. Supporting the power of her party to make change in this state, she insisted instead on getting amendments up front and vetoing legislation if she doesn't get exactly her way. She has limited the attempt to end a tax exemption for data centers and to do something else with the money that had been allocated for that.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Voters may not necessarily want a data center, but they certainly want the iPhone with the data on it in their pocket. Which I say not to be kind of sassy and disrespectful, but because it's actually true.

[Andrea Pitzer]

She's pushed back on collective bargaining rights of public workers.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Governor, given everything that you just said, paid family medical leave, raise the minimum wage laws on wage theft, why do you think there are folks in the labor movement who say that your veto was a, quote, betrayal? As I saw in one of the

[Journalist or Interviewer]

stories, I would defer to them to answer that question.

[Andrea Pitzer]

These are just two examples of the bills she's torpedoed that will have long term effects on democracy. In a broader context while also affecting the quality of life for everyday Virginians.

[Political Analyst]

I asked WDBJ political expert Casey Myers if he thinks Spanberger's vetoes against initiatives from her own party will hurt Democrats running for Congress and in local races this fall.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Using some foggy notion of centrism does two things.

[Political Analyst]

One of the issues that it does

[Reporter or Interviewer]

raise is how effective are you as a party to get your initiatives through?

[Andrea Pitzer]

It treats the current political setting as normal. It also prevents the rise of meaningful multi state opposition to the Trump administration outside the halls of Congress, where Democrats are severely limited in what they can accomplish.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

And that could not necessarily sour people

[Political Analyst]

on candidates, but it could end up

[Reporter or Interviewer]

making people less enthusiastic in terms of their own turnout.

[Andrea Pitzer]

So if what being a centrist really means is you cannot actually make any significant changes for the better, yet your opponents will come in and change things for the worst, then it only becomes possible to make the system worse and worse over time. There is no way to undo the harm that's been done, and at root that is the problem with all these approaches.

[Political Analyst]

Not a single hand went up.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Spanberger needs to lead, but she's actually putting the brakes on her own party's attempt to expand its power and set policy and offer Virginians a different vision of what the state can be. It's a misplaced kind of centrism that actually impedes leadership because it kneecaps those who are trying to oppose the dismantling of democracy. And it will not help her with those on the right if she's hoping to aspire to a bigger office later because the right wing information sphere has already tarred her as an extremist.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

This feels like a power grab.

[Andrea Pitzer]

It feels like it's off base for

[Journalist or Interviewer]

their lives, and it feels like she

[Andrea Pitzer]

lied to them because she did. In a more concrete example of harm, Colorado governor Jared Polis actually collaborated with the Trump administration's agenda in dismantling any accountability for trying to overthrow the government.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Peters was sentenced to nine years after prosecutors proved she gave an unauthorized person access to Mesa county election equipment in the aftermath of the 2020 election, then helped spread false claims that the vote was stolen.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Paulus has previously drawn criticism for actions that went against democratic principles, including a recent veto of a bill that would make it easier for Colorado unions to organize.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Her case became a cause celebr on the right, with President Trump repeatedly calling her a, quote, political prisoner and demanding that Colorado set her free.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But on Monday, as a result of a decision he had announced earlier, Colorado election clerk Tina Peters was released from prison after serving only a quarter or so of her sentence.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

The move comes after months of pressure from Trump, who cast Peters as a martyr in this broader campaign to reroute write the history of the 2020 election.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Peters launched her post prison media tour immediately by making a series of unrepentant statements.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

Joining us now, Colorado Secretary of State Jenna Griswold.

[Andrea Pitzer]

She spoke with authoritarian racist xenophobe Steve Bannon and told him that elections are rigged. And she claimed that telling the truth about the 2020 election conspiracy is why she was in prison.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

I do think it will embolden the election denialism movement in this country at a time that is is quite dangerous with our upcoming elections.

[Andrea Pitzer]

To the credit of Colorado's Democratic Party, they formally censured Paulus for commuting Peter's sentence and even imposed some punishment.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Since the big lie emerged, just the workload has been tremendously high in the threat environment is real. We've actually had a near 40% turnover in elected county clerks in Colorado since 2020 in a big part because of the threat environment.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But there can be no undoing of that particular harm.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Look, I know it's really tough to have federal aid cut, big institutions moved out of the state of Colorado literally over retribution over Tina Peters. But again, if we placate this lawless president who tries to bully his way into getting people to follow his lawless orders, democracy can fall.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Last week I wrote about Delaney Hall, a federal ICE detention facility in Newark run by the private contractor GEO Group.

[Political Analyst]

In this Trump economy right now, you know, the only boom industry is private prisons.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Conditions inside are so horrific that detainees are holding a hunger strike.

[Reporter or Interviewer]

This is happening now.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Protesters are trying to support those inside by showing up and maintaining a presence outside Blaney Hall.

[Political Analyst]

Moira Donagin encapsulated the best of what we do know. The food is spoiled and sometimes has maggots. Those who are in prison there who have not been convicted of any crime are forced to work for about a dollar a day. Conditions are overcrowded and unsanitary. There is only limited and inadequate medical care. Those inside say they're being beaten and pepper sprayed.

[Andrea Pitzer]

As I wrote then, New Jersey Governor Mikey Sherrill last week had demanded access to the facility and called for it to be closed down, where our own

[Political Analyst]

government has been refused access to to

[Andrea Pitzer]

meet with detainees about the conditions there. But recent days have seen the New Jersey State Police deployed on multiple nights against the demonstrators.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Protesters and organizers continue to gather near the massive jail over the weekend after New Jersey State Police imposed a barricade about a half mile long around Delaney's hall perimeter.

[Andrea Pitzer]

There are several reports and even some video of projectiles striking demonstrators and of beatings.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Activists denounced New Jersey Governor Mikey Sherrill for deploying state police with officers in riot gear reportedly beating up protesters.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The Trump administration has praised the state police as committing an operation in support of ICE and DHS's agenda.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

We're joined by Bob Hennely. He's the award winning investigative journalist and has been covering the protests at Delaney Hall.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Any governor or elected official who does not understand that what is undergirding every crisis in right now is police state power applied by corrupt authorities against vulnerable and selectively targeted communities is failing their job.

[Political Analyst]

The police violence, which of course the likes of the New York Post, that that's what they want, takes us off the heroism of the detainees who have written this. These three letters where they've written something that I think that historians will say is equivalent to the Declaration of Independence because they so vividly describe the way they've been deprived of all the basic human rights that we come to associate with this nation.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Abetting those gross abuses of power is disastrous.

[Political Analyst]

We have a period of lawlessness in this country where the Trump administration is just systematically ignoring writ of habeas corpuses that have been issued by Article 3 courts.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Preemptively using state police to do the job so that federal authorities won't come in to take action instead is the worst kind of collaboration.

[Political Analyst]

I just think it's also foreseeable. You do know because you covered it when it happened. Back In May of 2025, Mayor Baraka was taken off the street by masked federal agents.

[Andrea Pitzer]

One that spares the Trump administration the risk of having to actually take action itself.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

This is Sally Pillay, a mutual aid advocate with eyes on Ice New Jersey. She described the chaotic scene as state police swarmed the protest inside Delaney Hall Saturday night.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And one that tarnishes the good faith the governor had built through prior words and deeds. There was no announcement. There was nothing. It just came. There was an escalation of police with shields, mounted horses, flashbangs, tear gas, smoke bombs. That was just one after the other,

[Journalist or Interviewer]

one after the other.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Monday, Will Bunch of the Philadelphia Inquirer wrote about the presence of the New Jersey State Police outside Delaney Hall. He asked an important question. Is the New Jersey governor at war with the rogue agency that sends masked goon squads into city streets to grab day laborers or Uber drivers and warehouses them in squalid gulags and that murdered two citizens on the streets of Minneapolis when they tried to protest? Or is she partnering with them? I discovered Will's piece halfway through working on this episode, but I'm not surprised that he beat me to the punch with a similar perspective. I think that there's a kind of compartmentalization of effect in which Democratic politicians don't understand the degree to which they're part of a larger fight against authoritarianism, and they don't seem to realize that this fight connects directly to their state or district while also giving them a role far beyond their immediate responsibilities and their limited official role. Free speech is being boxed in on every front. To actively limit it yourself in an attempt to appear neutral or to appease the right's hunger for punishment of those standing up for immigrants in other communities is to disempower everyone who is working against the harm that the White House is imposing right now. It disempowers the other politicians actively trying to fight it as well, and it harms the prospects for democracy for everyone going forward. Even in posts that are mostly criticism, I want to offer counterexamples, so I'll include praise for the actions that Newark Mayor Ross Baraka has taken so far this week, even as Governor Sherrill has been falling short.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Mayor Baraka, thank you so much for

[Andrea Pitzer]

being here next week. He may be the one that's falling short, but for now he's saying what needs to be said and taking constructive action.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

You say you believe that ICE has been escalating the situation. How so?

[Andrea Pitzer]

Since state health inspectors haven't been allowed inside Delaney Hall, Newark officials filed a lawsuit to demand access.

[Political Analyst]

The allegations once again are serious.

[Activist or Community Organizer]

They include inadequate medical care and also psychological abuse.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Mayor Baraka also spoke out earlier this week to remind the public that people have been protesting at Delaney hall for nearly a year, and it's only the presence and actions of ICE and more recently the New Jersey State Police outside the facility that have led to violence.

[Activist or Community Organizer]

There were only two times that they actually got violent is the first time when I was there, when and was arrested, that's when ICE was there and they became very violent. Not just towards me, towards protesters, toward

[Andrea Pitzer]

the congressional delegation, and replacing the New Jersey State Police with Newark officers instead.

[Activist or Community Organizer]

Last night it was pretty good. The dirt had taken over at that point and we had no incidents, no arrest.

[Andrea Pitzer]

One issue that the mayor has been emphasizing is that Delaney hall is privately run and doesn't sit on federal land. Therefore, those who run it are subject to state and municipal laws and the

[Activist or Community Organizer]

Congressional delegation is doing their job, just responding to their constituents who are concerned about the behavior and what's going on inside of this building. And they have a right to investigate it.

[Andrea Pitzer]

They cannot be shielded by a contract that they have with Homeland Security, which is what they're trying to do over and over again. Baraka himself offered some criticism of the governor, saying Mikey Sherrill was supposed to take action. She's the governor of New Jersey. She made a decision to involve the state police. I disagree with the tactics that they employed. If you use a sword, you have to expect people to get cut.

[Activist or Community Organizer]

The people who are making the complaints are the detainees themselves, and the representatives are doing their job to investigate the complaints that are made by detainees.

[Andrea Pitzer]

I'd like to take a minute as well to praise Representative Lamonica McIver. Secretary Mullen, have you ever had a visit to Delaney hall for oversight visit?

[Political Analyst]

No, I have not.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Thank you. Charged with assault last year over her appearance at Delaney Hall. Being charged for doing my job. And I continue to, you know, express my innocence to this case, and I'm going to continue to do my job for the people of New Jersey. McIver won her primary challenge this week, and right now she is scheduled to go before a federal appeals court later this month as she tries to get the assault charge thrown out before trial. Well, so we look forward to June 23rd when we're in of the appellate court arguing to have this case dismissed. She has continued to show up at Delaney Hall. These charges aren't going to stop me from having oversight or continuing to show up at Delaney hall to make sure that I'm holding these individuals in this administration accountable. Pulling back for a moment to consider all this. From 30,000ft, European Union has given its

[Political Analyst]

green light for the creation of detentions outside of Europe to where they will send illegal migrants.

[Andrea Pitzer]

It's worth remembering that this sequence of events, this isn't just how it's going today. Right now in the United States, basically, under the agreement concluded, countries like Germany, Austria and Denmark could see the construction of these detention hubs in countries like Rwanda, Uganda or Uzbekistan. This is happening all over the world and has happened for more than a century. Spain has been one of the biggest critics of these new rules, saying that it does not respect human rights. See, for instance, already bad and rapidly deteriorating immigration policies in Europe. The Washington Post here says the EU is adopting strict new measures and moving to, quote, deploy some of the clenched fist tactics used by the Trump administration. In the history of authoritarianism, strongmen have counted on bureaucrats and politicians to continue like marionettes in their traditional roles, while those with power kill every freedom in society. This is why legislators are rarely the ones who push back on authoritarianism.

[Political Analyst]

Former South Korean President Yoon Suk Yul has been sentenced to life in prison for his brief imposition of martial law

[Andrea Pitzer]

in December 2024, and the recent example of South Korea was so extraordinary because it was unusual.

[Political Analyst]

Yoon defended his martial law decree as necessary to stop liberals, whom he described as anti state forces, from obstructing his agenda with their legislative majority.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Opposition politicians must be mindful of the fact that their role is in part to preserve the ability to stand meaningfully, dramatically and publicly against the government, even if it draws fire in some cases, because it will draw fire.

[Political Analyst]

The decree lasted about six hours before being lifted after lawmakers managed to break through a military blockade and voted unanimously to lift the measure.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And I do want to take a minute to praise those who show up day after day and night after night at places like Broadview and Delaney Hall.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

A group of seniors traveling from New

[Andrea Pitzer]

York City to Newark Wednesday afternoon with a message that is one path to action and it's a powerful one that sets an example and serves as a check on state power in a really explicit way. We need to support the hunger strikers and the labor strikers. For those who aren't ready or able to protest in that particular way for various reasons, supporting those who do, raising the profile of the hunger strikers and the conditions in ICE facility, these things are also critical. New Yorkers should care about this. We think we should and we do, and we're showing that we're here for them. There is long term awareness that needs to be expanded about the ways that conditions in these facilities mimic and even directly replicate conditions in prisons in the United States today. Demanding better from the Republican politicians backing the current authoritarianism underway and from the Democratic politicians who oppose it is key. In a discussion group with 30 or so high schoolers at a New York public school last week, I was so impressed by the way several of them have approached fighting for the rights of immigrants on multiple levels. They were out demonstrating. Several had been doing community organizing with Know youw Rights pamphlets. A few had even joined with kids from other schools going to Albany to lobby dozens of legislators. Their commitment at such a young age, with less institutional power and fewer resources than almost anyone watching this episode was so inspiring to me. There is so much to do, but there is also so much we can do.

[Journalist or Interviewer]

Thanks for listening to Next comes what? Please share this with one person who's looking for ways to survive this mess. To support this podcast, please become a paid [e-mail] and consider giving. Next comes what? A five star review where you get

[Andrea Pitzer]

your podcasts and that's it.