Podcast Episode Summary

Next Comes What – "The State of The Degenerate Union"

Host: Andrea Pitzer

Date: October 10, 2025

Overview

In this episode, author and historian Andrea Pitzer reflects on the first year of her newsletter and podcast, offering a sobering analysis of the rise and entrenchment of authoritarianism in the United States, focusing on Donald Trump’s current administration. Drawing lessons from global history and the ongoing "concentration camp tendency" in American policy, Pitzer explains how strongmen rise, what tools they use, and—critically—what citizens, activists, and local officials can do to resist, based on both past and present models at home and abroad.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Take Stock Now

• Pitzer launched "Degenerate Art" a year earlier to chronicle crises in America, and now, with Trump’s return and escalation of authoritarian policies, she sees an urgent need to synthesize core lessons from the past year.
• "It seems like a good moment to stop and consider the most important parts of what I've tried to cover in the last 12 months." (Andrea Pitzer, 00:12)

2. Devolution from Threat to Harm

• The Trump administration has moved past merely threatening liberal democratic norms:
  • Historic federal cuts—$1 trillion to Medicaid, potentially removing 17 million from healthcare
  • Unprecedented crackdown on immigrants, expansion of law enforcement and military into domestic affairs
  • Use of law enforcement and military power against political opposition
• "The federal government has been deliberately wrecked by Trump and his allies in an ongoing project to extract wealth for the richest Americans and deny benefits to the poorest." (Andrea Pitzer, 01:42)

3. History as Both Warning and Guide

• Drawing from Pitzer’s research on global concentration camps, she warns of the U.S. expanding both domestic and international detention networks without due process:
  • Constructed facilities and increased civilian detention resembling historic camps
  • Parallels between current U.S. policy and 19th-century Cuban and German precedents
• "When people think of concentration camps, they tend to think of Auschwitz...But I really wanted to look into how we got to that point." (Andrea Pitzer, 03:38)

4. International Context: Gaza and Beyond

• Examines recent Israeli actions in Gaza as aligning with the "rogue state" status initiated by the U.S. War on Terror; argues U.S. and Israeli conduct shows the global normalization of humanitarian violations.
  • Warns against ignoring global connections—“those are also critical for those people and for us going forward.” (Andrea Pitzer, 06:00)

5. Media Degradation and Propaganda

• Billionaires buying up media, e.g., Bari Weiss at CBS, connections between Fox News' founding and American authoritarianism
• "Journalism is starving...shedding workers in ways that begin to echo the kinds of silence and blackouts that arise...in other police states." (Andrea Pitzer, 08:09)

6. The "Concentration Camp Tendency" at Home

• Tracing this urge to exclude and harm:
  • Trump’s attacks on Haitian immigrants; denial of services to marginalized groups (trans, homeless, Black, and Latino communities)
  • National-level policies echoing those from colonial America and Operation Condor in South America
• "The attempt by government to isolate and remove targeted groups from the general population...is the necklace threading through all the policies that are currently choking the country..." (Andrea Pitzer, 34:46)

7. Adapting to Accelerating Authoritarianism

• Comparison with historical strongmen:
  • Putin's quick consolidation (and the repression and militarization that followed)
  • Hitler’s second act – the window of opportunity for resistance shrinks fast, but does exist
• Pitzer notes Trump's second administration is moving far faster than historical analogs.
• "I noted that Trump was coming into office with more power than Hitler possessed in Nazi Germany on arrival in 1933..." (Andrea Pitzer, 13:20)

8. Institutional Failures and Points of Potential Resistance

• Congress's near-total capitulation; a Supreme Court rubber-stamping executive initiatives through mechanisms like the “shadow docket,” (27:14–28:09)
• Lower court judges continue to mount pockets of resistance, sometimes at personal risk.
• "Threats to federal judges in 2025 have already outpaced last year's numbers." (Andrea Pitzer, 28:40)

9. Political Infighting as Both Threat and Opportunity

• Trump’s physical decline and power struggles among surrogates (Hegseth, Miller, Rubio, Vance) may create fractures that can be exploited by the opposition.
• "There will be infighting between the officially legal branches and the more extrajudicial branches...It will lead to some worse things...but also to many opportunities to derail the larger Trumpian agenda." (Andrea Pitzer, 32:20)

10. Everyday Resistance: Models and Effectiveness

• Cites Erica Chenoweth’s 3.5% rule and global research suggesting nonviolent mass participation works.
  • "The value of protest and the possibility of a return to healthy democracy—these are real." (Andrea Pitzer, 19:53)
  • "Getting at least 3.5% of a country's population engaged in an opposition movement is generally sufficient to force significant change." (Andrea Pitzer, 19:53)
• Local initiatives: running for school board, supporting immigrant legal defense, getting ICE out of communities, and joining "No Kings" protests.
• Citing historical resistance from enslaved people and parents striking against segregated schools, Pitzer reminds listeners that oppressed people have always found creative ways to push back.

11. Practical Guidance

• Beyond "spectator democracy": calls for organizing, aiding the vulnerable, and creating parallel structures for after Trump.
• "You can work on building that world now. Support those who are doing work you can't." (Andrea Pitzer, 37:59)
• "Outside of the groups directly targeted with violence today, public apathy is a greater danger to the country than actual oppression in this moment." (Andrea Pitzer, 40:49)

12. Notable Examples and International Lessons

• Resistance successes in Brazil, South Korea, and France
• The need to fight the "concentration camp tendency" on all fronts, not just rollback one or two policies

13. Closing Reflections

• Expresses gratitude to co-producer Jason Sattler (LOL GOP), contributors, and subscribers
• Requests continued support, participation in Q&A, and urges listeners to share the podcast and get active

Memorable Quotes

"It’s a bigotry that gets tapped to further a delusional narrative that eventually competes with and displaces reality."
— Andrea Pitzer, 00:42

"What can history tell us given that several years of my work around the world centered on the global rise of concentration camps and their persistence in the world?"
— Andrea Pitzer, 03:22

"The federal government has been deliberately wrecked by Trump and his allies…"
— Andrea Pitzer, 01:42

"The value of protest and the possibility of a return to healthy democracy—these are real."
— Andrea Pitzer, 19:53

"America is singularly poised to act in ways that most citizens and residents of other countries mired in hardening authoritarianism were not. Which again is not to say there are no risks."
— Andrea Pitzer, 40:49

"We can absolutely do this, but we will have to overcome seeing democracy as a spectator sport."
— Andrea Pitzer, 41:57

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:12 – Why take stock now & summary of the year’s threats
• 01:42 – Federal government’s deliberate damage & new authoritarian moves
• 03:22 – The global growth and meaning of concentration camps
• 06:00 – International (Gaza) context and the U.S. role
• 08:09 – Collapse of independent journalism; media billionaires
• 11:33 – Trumpian symbolism and right-wing extremism (Waco, Branch Davidians)
• 13:20 – Analogies to Putin and Hitler, rapid pace of U.S. authoritarianism
• 17:18 – Key lessons from resistance history: judiciary & dissent
• 18:10 – The power and importance of humor in resistance
• 19:53 – Protest's effectiveness: 3.5% rule and other research
• 25:05 – Global resistance models: South Korea, Poland, France
• 34:46 – Concentration camp tendency in U.S. policy
• 37:59 – Building for after Trump: supporting democracy
• 40:49 – Public apathy as the main risk; opportunities for civic action
• 41:57 – Final call to action and gratitude

Tone & Language

Andrea Pitzer’s tone is urgent, historically grounded, and resolutely activist. She moves fluidly between personal reflection, global/historical context, and practical guidance, always maintaining a direct and unflinching approach to current threats. Her references to historical analogs are precise, and her language is concrete and vivid, especially when describing both the dangers (“the concentration camp tendency”) and the pathways for resistance.

Key Takeaways for Listeners

• American democracy is in an acute phase of crisis; authoritarian policies are already inflicting harm.
• History shows both deadly warning signs and practical blueprints for resisting and reversing autocracy.
• Everyday actions—running for office, supporting vulnerable community members, showing up—matter deeply.
• Protest and mass engagement, in sufficient numbers, are proven tools to force change.
• The "concentration camp tendency" must be resisted at every level, not normalized or tolerated.
• Even in dire times, pockets of hope and opportunity for resistance exist, both from infighting among authoritarians and from protected civil liberties still available.
• Listeners are urged to participate: become active, build institutions for the future, and fight apathy.

For More

• Send Q&A questions to nextcomeswhatmail.com
• Participate in No Kings protest actions on October 18 (virtual training available before)
• Support or subscribe to Andrea Pitzer’s work at andreapitzer.com