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This morning, there are Republicans across the country who are nervous. Over the weekend, two big events happened in Texas. One was small and unfolded mostly in private rooms. The other was larger and entirely public. Want me to talk about Liam? Yeah, would you mind? Liam Conejo Ramos, the five year old whom immigration agents reportedly used as bait to get his family members. His name was Conejo, which means bunny in Spanish, was released from the Dilley Immigration Processing center in San Antonio, Texas. Attorneys representing the Ramos family says they are in the country legally from Ecuador as they pursue an asylum claim. He and his father were escorted back to their home in Minneapolis by Representative Joaquin Castro of Texas. I hope he is safe. The other huge event, the one that happened entirely in public, was an election Saturday to fill a vacant seat in the Texas State Senate. It didn't just swing to the left. Democrats flipped the seat by an astounding margin, 57 to 43%. It took a rocket ship to the left. The numbers were even more surprising than it sounds. The seat has been held by Republicans for the last 48 years. They ignore this result at their own peril. Ron DeSantis is right to say, hey, special elections can be quirky, but this ain't no quirk. In 2024, Trump defeated Harris in the same district, winning by 17 points. You mean I won by 17. This person lost. Things like that happen. A pro labor veteran Democratic candidate, Taylor Remt. This is about school, public school funding. This is about helping working folks. Nearly reversed those results in a stunning defeat, unsettling Republicans nationwide. I'm not involved in that. That's a local Texas race now. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to keep the focus on the ICE agents. What's happening in Minneapolis and across the country remains brutal and it's ongoing. The administration publicly made gestures toward backing off at the end of January and they met with the governor, the mayor, everybody else. And we're going to de. Escalate a little bit. Perhaps only to get the budget settled without losing any of the massive allocations to ICE personnel and detentions. So, yeah. Falling back? No, no, not at all. But it's clear that Stephen Miller's and Trump's crusade against immigrants is proceeding full steam ahead. When this clock strikes 12 on the Trump era, there'll be a few people walking out the door with Donald Trump. Stephen Miller will be in that group. ICE and Border Patrol will continue to be violent, terrorizing whole communities. Big news out of Minnesota, where borders are. Tom Homan has announced a drawdown of 700 personnel from the immigration crackdown operation. Other crises have appeared on the horizon as well. He announced the drawdown. Seven hundred leaving, he said, roughly 2,000 federal agents here on the ground. The original footprint was about 150 agents. On Sunday, two reports emerged of measles outbreaks in detention facilities. Let's bring in Scripps News investigative correspondent Patrick Terpstra in one of them. Dilley. Many more children and even infants are reported to be present. To sort of take a step back, a lot of people might not realize that there are hundreds of children that are held at the Dilley Detention Center. And measles, especially in unvaccinated or under vaccinated populations, can be lethal. Our investigation over the fall found a lot of concerns about medical care as well as lack of hygiene products. A lot of these kids sleeping with all of the lights on, because that is the design of this place. We are going to continue to get this kind of bad news and to have setbacks. Child welfare experts, they have told us that no amount of time in detention is good for children. And in fact, the courts have said that the maximum amount of time that kids can stay in detention is 20 days. Well, we found data showing that hundreds of kids, over 300 have been held far longer than those 20 days, months. But today I want to talk about some of the big good change making its way across the country. A popular uprising is underway. If you've seen any videos of ICE in Minneapolis, you'll probably hear the whistles. I don't think people can get enough of them. It is happening fresh off the 3D printer. They're sent here to mischief a local toy store giving them away for free. Thank you so much. If you and I and our friends and neighbors keep this going. Activists here in Minnesota say the sound these whistles make travels faster than a text message alerting neighbors of when immigration agents are nearby. We are going to defeat Trump and have a chance to build a real democracy in America. We just need to keep fighting and speaking up and protesting. And our voices really do matter and the people matter. And fuck ICE is all I want to say. Sorry. Right now the government is taking real hits. I'm not involved in that. U.S. district Judge Fred Beery, the judge who ordered the release of Liam and his father doing a fantastic job, was deeply critical of the administration writing that quote. The case has its genesis in the ill conceived and incompetently implemented government pursuit of daily deportation quotas, apparently even if it requires traumatized children. Beery included Bible verses and a photo of the boy in his communications about the case. I believe in an eye for an eye. Other judges are similarly skeptical of the government's actions. Things like that happen. Magistrate Judge Douglas Mikkow, appointed by Joe Biden, took exception to the administration's approach to public dissent over its immigration policies. Nima Ramani, former federal prosecutor Always great to have you on. When the government wanted warrants for eight suspects who it believed had taken part in a protest during a Sunday service at a local church where an ICE official is reported to be a pastor, Judge Mickow denied five of the eight requests, including that of journalist Don Lemon and his producer. Really surprising that federal prosecutors would pursue a case and not even clear probable cause. That's a very low standard. When the government demanded review of that decision, Chief Judge of the U.S. district Court for the District of Minneapolis, Patrick J. Schiltz, who was appointed by G.W. bush, didn't immediately reverse Mickow's ruling, but began to consider it, noting that it was an exceptional and unsettling request. Judge Schultz looked at what the Justice Department was saying about Don and wrote, lemon and his producer, quote, were not protesters at all. Instead, they were a journalist and his producer. There is no evidence that those two engaged in any criminal behavior or conspired to do so. No evidence. After more shenanigans from the administration in which the government tried to circumvent Schultz but was still unable to obtain what it wanted, a separate federal grand jury was impaneled, finally giving Attorney General Pam Bondi the results she had been publicly calling for, as she described the protest as, quote, a coordinated attack. One wonders, are they trying to pursue justice, or are they trying to pursue revenge or retribution? Or trying to scare journalists out of doing the important work of journalism? In a separate case this week, a federal judge blocked a renewed attempt by the Trump administration to bar members of Congress from making unannounced visits to immigration detention facilities. Previous DHS policy required members of Congress to give seven days notice before visiting the centers. Well, today the federal judge blocked DHS from enforcing that policy, at least for the next 14 days. The administration tried a shell game of claiming different funding and different requirements, but U.S. district Judge Gia Cobb said that DHS could not keep elected representatives from their oversight responsibilities. Members of Congress, like Colorado Representative Jason Crow, have made it a practice to do unannounced visits to federal facilities. I like to do surprise inspections. The good news about all of this is that the court is not crumbling in the face of increasing authoritarianism. A Department of justice attorney told a judge that the federal government's system for processing and responding to immigration cases, quote, sucks. If anything, it's becoming more confident and more assertive about disbelieving the government's sketchy legal arguments and its account of events. For a further perspective on this, let's bring in senior legal affairs reporter at Politico, Josh Gerstein. His latest piece covers how a top federal judge in Minneapolis delivered a brutal condemnation of ICE for repeatedly defying judges orders in cases stemming from the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. In that state and around the Twin Cities, even where the government is eventually able to make an end run around those standing up for democracy, these decisions have a real effect. The judge became very frustrated with this, his colleagues frustrated as well. And he had initially called the head of ice, Todd Lyons, for a possible contempt hearing tomorrow in Minneapolis. The jud has backed away from that now because they released the individual involved in that specific case. But it's pretty clear that he's trying to get the ICE officials on a shorter rope, a shorter timeline here to respond to these court orders. Polls, too, are showing that the public as a whole, including Republicans, is taking issue with Trump's policies and the aggressiveness of immigration sweeps and assaults on residents. Before I say thanks to God, I'm going to say eyes out. On Monday, data journalist G. Eliot Morris cited Fox News in their poll showing Democrats hitting the highest percent support for a generic ballot ever received in the history of the survey. In May 2025, we started asking, we being the strength in numbers, versatile survey receiving 52% of the vote with 46% for Republicans, approval for deportations in particular, and separated that from approval of immigration policy, which is sort of nebulous. This result beat even the 50% received in October 2017, a year ahead of the blue wave midterms that saw Democrats gain 40 seats in the U.S. house of Representatives. Half people were just asked and the other half of people were given information about recent actions and deportations. And we always found routinely that there was like a 20 percentage point shift in people's approval of immigration, Trump's presidency, if they were given that information. And 59% of voters indicated to Fox News that ICE was being, quote, too aggressive in its deportations. I'm not going to give myself all the credit here. Like we did not ask, how would you feel if the president of the United States gave a goon squad $750 billion and they killed people on the streets of Minneapolis? A Pew survey published at the end of January noted that 37% of Americans now approve of Donald Trump, with only 27% saying they support all or most of Trump's policies and his plans. Maybe we can use a little bit of a softer touch. That's down from 35% a year ago. Former Fox anchor Gretchen Carlson Politicians are reading the tea leaves as well. So, you know, he may say something and he may do something else. Nonetheless, for him, those are words that he does not like to utter. They could have used a softer touch. He didn't like what he saw. And are they significant? Yes, Somebody got to him during Senate budget negotiations. An amendment made by Bernie Sanders repealing the $75 billion previously allotted for ICE failed by a single vote. Presumably the polls are the first thing that got to him because he's absolutely cratering in the polls on this issue. Independents, 71% say excessive force is how they view ICE right now. That is abominable for any Republican running for the midterms right now. And yes, for those of you that follow Congress, performative showmanship is part of the vote. If senators know what the final result will be, it lets some of them cover their asses with angry constituents. He seemed to have a little empathy for the situation in Minnesota and two U.S. citizens murdered. Then last Friday night, he was asked about it on the red carpet and he completely flipped again. So I'm worried now that these comments were from the last person who spoke to him before he went out to this interview. But that the amendment received this kind of support still shows the tremendous pressure that these officials are under from the public if they want to keep their jobs. I think that this is him just expressing some empathy because he's hoping that he can get those people back on his side who, by the way, the majority voted for him for this very issue. But he's mucked it up. And voters aren't just planning how to vote in future elections, they're taking action right now. Close to home. I'd like to share a story from a local paper in Coldwater, Michigan, dated to 9 April 1945. News of the plans for expanding immigrant detention by building or acquiring facilities around the country are running into trouble. The US Third army came onto what you might call a detention center just outside the village of ohrdruf, Germany. The U.S. army brought the leading citizens of Ohrdruf to tour the facility, which turned out to be part of the Buchenwald network of concentration camps. After a January announcement by Homeland Security that it planned to acquire a 43 acre parcel that would be developed as a Detention and Processing center in Hanover County, Virginia. One of the Germans replied that what happened in the camp was, quote, done by a few people and you cannot blame us all. And the American who could have been any one of our grandfathers said this was done by those that the German people chose to lead them and all are responsible. Virginia public media reported that the Hanover Board of Supervisors opposed the acquisition. The morning after the tour, the mayor of Ordruv killed himself. And maybe he did not know the full extent of the outrages that were committed in his community, but he knew enough. The board, however, had limited power to stop a federal building from opening. And we don't know exactly how ICE will use this warehouse, but we know enough. In response, hundreds of area residents jammed into meeting spaces to voice their fury. And last Friday, the Canadian owner of the property said it was canceling the sale. We are all responsible for what happens in our community. Greg Sargent of the New Republic recently talked to immigration advocate Leah Parada, who told him, I just met with some organizers in Roxbury, New Jersey, where a town council of all Republicans stood up and said they were opposing the warehouse being opened up there. I urged the council to take action to stop or stall or at the barest minimum, to think creatively about how to exercise oversight over this proposed ICE facility. Political analysts are noting that awareness of what the government doing is seeping down, even to voters normally tuned out completely from politics. Thank you. It's a huge accomplishment, one that is due in part to the tragic loss of life and the harm that's been inflicted on civilians by military style operations around the nation. But it's also due to the millions of people who have stood up themselves and expressed their displeasure, making the government's actions more visible. That big change on immigration, 700 officers leaving Minneapolis, did that come from you? Yes, it did. But it didn't come from me because I just wanted to do it. Protests are continuing to grow. St. Paul City Councilmember Hwa Jeong Kim has found a new way to serve her community in the wake of Renee Goode and Alex Priddy being gunned down by immigration enforcement agents in Minnesota. She volunteers as a rapid responder that's a member of a community group that keeps an eye out for ice. More than 34,000 people have taken steps toward training as ice observers. Throughout the 90 minute shift, she was dialed into a call with more than 40 other rapid responders circling the city on foot or by car. Far from scaring most residents into lying low and waiting for the government to do its dirty work of arresting their neighbors. They say their goal is not to intervene or engage in violence, but to peacefully resist the federal sweeps, to bear witness, and to stand up for their neighbors and communities. People are defying even the risk of harm in order to stand up, and they do that by making sure federal agents know that they're not operating in the shadows or in secrecy. Sociologist Dana Fisher, who studied protests against Trump's first administration, has been following the response to his return. And in a piece for the Guardian over the weekend, she outlined a shift underway, noting that an overwhelming majority of respondents to our survey, 99%, reported that they support organizations engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience, including sit ins and blockades. It is my pleasure to introduce Erica Chenoweth, who is joining in their personal capacity. They are one of the preeminent experts in the world on nonviolent social movements. Moreover, when we asked participants about the degree to which they support the movement taking more confrontational actions against the Trump administration and its policies, and if they personally would be willing to join such actions, the results were unequivocal. I think it's useful to just recall in general, what successful movements tend to do in the type of context in which the United States is engaged right now. 79% agreed that they, quote, support social movements taking more confrontational action against the Trump administration. We can see In Minneapolis and St. Paul the types of capacities that are needed to defend against autocratic consolidation around the country. So the first thing is related to mass and diverse participation, and 66% agreed that they, quote, would participate in more confrontational action against the Trump administration if they had the opportunity. The participation of people from all walks of life unleashes the power and creativity and the networks of everyone involved. Historically, many authoritarian leaders have had more patience than Trump and worked more quietly. The second thing that's been happening there, it's not just about people coming out on the streets in shows of mass protest that has happened, but there have been a huge range of methods with varying degrees of commitment and risk, where people can fully express their agency. So we've seen protests, but we've also seen non cooperation. They waited until shock troops had been expanded and public ability to dissent effectively outlawed before engaging in the kind of crackdowns on everyday people who fall outside the categories of officially targeted minorities. The third thing that's been happening is that the repression, when it has been happening, has been backfiring. And this is important to note that backfire is not something that happens automatically. What we have seen is that we've seen abuse and killing, and we've seen people prepared to make sure that that is observed, communicated widely, and that it breaks through information silos. Since federal government itself, along with business leaders and many academic institutions, caved so readily after the return of Trump, perhaps the White House somehow believed that the people would surrender, too. But once again, they've gone too far too fast. That then leads to this really critical shift in power, and that comes through defections, where people in positions of influence begin to change the way they're behaving. So we've seen this. There were police that came out, for example. Some Republican leaders in the state of Minnesota have either left the party or announced they're no longer running for governor. In one case, those who are attempting ethnic cleansing of the country as violently and as quickly as possible have enough resources and apparatchiks to terrorize any city, but not enough to terrorize every city. It's clear which side is doing the abusing here, and that's because the community is organizing, not in the conspiratorial sense of organizing, in the how can I best help my neighbors? Form of organizing. Stephen Miller and Trump seem to think that blitzes terrorizing their enemies will lead to surrender. And in fact, for a long time, the whole military theory of aerial bombing blitzes was that they would terrify people into mass surrender. But historically, those kinds of raids overall have had the opposite result. Think about England during the blitz. Think of the US Bombing Hanoi year after year, dropping more bombs on Vietnam than we did on Nazi Germany. But being able to terrorize a people is often not sufficient to force them to surrender. To be afraid in this moment is a rational reaction. But fear does not have to mean paralysis. Whole American communities have spent decades or even centuries resisting this kind of violence. And even for those without that heritage, people who never believed their government might shoot them in the face during a traffic stop or put bullets in their back after pinning them face down on the street. Those people are standing up. If you personally aren't yet sure what to do, start with performative actions that show your care and concern for others. Senator Van Hollen of Maryland surely had no certainty of what would happen if he went to El Salvador and demanded to see Kilmar Abrego Garcia in detention last year. The uncertainty about what public opinion might be a year and a half from now created an opportunity to stake out values based politicking and messaging and to try to anticipate where public opinion might go and position yourself there and he was roundly mocked for making the trip with people claiming it was a self aggrandizing and empty gesture and worse in their view, a mistake for his political future. That I have a intrinsic commitment to my constituents, in this case Kilmar Vega Garcia being kidnapped to El Salvador. Yet that was the moment that immigration attitudes in the country began to shift against Trump. I have the values that say I should speak out for that marginalized credence being oppressed by the president and that triangulation that public opinion would sanction him to stand up for his values over the next year and a half. By the way, in Maryland, a state that's not going to be competitive, you don't need to strategically moderate was the smart calculations. And in fact, Kilimara Brago Garcia was eventually brought back from sicot, the prison in El Salvador. He was a member of the first group of detainees ever to leave the prison in its history. Abrego Garcia's fate has not yet been decided. He may still get deported at some point, though it would likely be to somewhere other than El Salvador. Still, the government was forced to undo its initial harm. His attorneys have defeated the malicious intent to make him a symbol of the government's omnipotence. Meanwhile, Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner has launched a national coalition of prosecutors that would hold federal immigration agents accountable if they're found to violated state or local laws and civil rights protections. The coalition includes prosecutors in Virginia, Arizona and Texas. For now, he is home with his family. Every one of these victories chips away at the government's illegitimate use of power. Last week, DA Krasner issued this warning to federal immigration agents. This is a small bunch of wannabe Nazis, that's what they are. In a country of 350 million, we outnumber them. In the same vein, Mary Grandlin, she is the chair of the Columbia Heights School Board and she also was a witness and tried to intervene in that event. There are so many other children than Liam Conejo Ramos who are held in detention in the US Today. Everybody knows this boy's story. I mean, it wasn't our intent. But also we have to speak up because we are not the only ones that this is happening to. But the photo of him was the one that sparked attention. We've gotten hundreds of emails from teachers and from school boards and superintendents across the country saying thank you for speaking up, because this is happening to us too. By showing that he can be saved, by celebrating his release, we can show that it is possible for the surviving shards of our Democracy to push back and effect change. It's not just Liam, it's hundreds of these other kids. The risk to focusing on a child like Liam is that the public may think that the job is now done because the poster kid for government abuses against immigrant children has been freed. Congressman Joaquin Castro had just visited the facility last week. In a statement, his office highlighted ongoing concerns about conditions, saying there is unreliable access to medical care and a negligent disregard for babies, kids, women and men when they are sick and suffering. Let's be clear, ICE is entirely responsible for these conditions. But the other path forward from this moment is that by humanizing him and showing that it's possible to defeat the Trump administration's cruelties, we can take that concern for Liam. They were able to find a bunny hat for him after the one apparently that he had when he was taken into custody could not be found, and expand it to every child trapped in immigration detention. Many of these kids had actually written in court documents some of what they were experiencing, including some children from Liam's community who are still being held. I'll give you a couple examples. A 13 year old saying that stomach aches are common because of lack of water quality there. A 14 year old saying boredom is a real issue because they're only given about one hour of schooling a day. Bringing everyone into this fold of civil rights and humane treatment won't happen automatically or quickly. It takes work. But the seeds have been planted and a movement is growing. I will segue to a related topic, which is that this week we announced the next no Kings for March 28, which is going to be the the largest protest to date in American history. In November of 2024, when I talked about creating networks and finding your people before Trump got back into office. Please do not go off half cocked. Find people that are working on the issues that you want to work in and join up with them, because there's a lot of people already thinking about that. This movement is what I was talking about. I think it's important not to underestimate the power of one day protests that are very large. The show of numbers, the ability to organize something that reaches across, you know, every corner of the United States and shows that there are people who are willing to stand up for their neighbors and for their values and for their rights is very powerful, even in symbolic terms. Across 2025, many centrist pundits said that unfocused protest was silly or pointless. Our voices really do matter. People matter. And fuck ICE is all I want to say. Thank you so much. I'm so, I'm so edgy. I said ice. And people in the Trump administration mocked those who took to the streets. By the way, I'm not a king. I'm not a king, but millions of you came out anyway sometimes. It also is important in material terms, too. Studies have shown impacts on voter turnout at midterm elections and in presidential elections and state level elections. I tried to encourage everyone to take small actions as soon as possible. Research has shown impacts on legislative votes, the way that people who are in elected office decide to vote in the end, saying that it was necessary to build muscles for more fraught encounters over time. And research has shown impacts on shifts in public opinion. I said that stopping Trump would likely come down to people in the streets. And the kind of encounters we're seeing now is exactly what I was talking about. Protest is a tactic, and what is needed are strategies to build momentum, build power, and put pressure on institutions and people in different social, economic, political and cultural pillars that can actually bring about the change that's needed. I think for listeners new and old, that if we could go back to November 2024 and know then what we see happening now, we would be horrified by how much has been lost. But at the same time, I think that most people would be amazed and proud at how people across America have stood up for what's right. We also shouldn't overestimate the importance of it. We know that single days of protest rarely build a type of power that's really needed to fully defend, protect or improve democracy, especially in a backsliding context. People who have looked at the history of dissent in the US or around the world know that this is how it goes. So that's why I, you know, talked about in the Minneapolis St. Paul case, the different ways that we know that movements win. It's about building those capacities to build power, build momentum, build pressure, and ultimately have leverage over the outcome. I get messages from so many of you saying that you distributed ice fliers, or that you contacted local officials about stopping a proposed detention facility near you, or that you organized a local demonstration to make specific demands for change. I get reports from people who went out and got tear gassed in Minneapolis or Portland. It's beautiful to know that so many people coast to coast are making a constellation of stars by which everyone might steer in darkness. Whatever you've been doing, keep doing more of that. And if you haven't been doing anything, now is the best moment to start. We are a long way from finished, but we have traction and we're gearing up to do the real work. And that's it. Thanks for listening to Next Comes what? Please share this with one person who's looking for ways to survive this mess. To support this podcast, please become a paid subscriber@Andreapitzer.com and consider giving Next Comes what? A five star review where you get your podcasts.