Next Comes What
Episode: “Update your bingo card”
Host: Andrea Pitzer
Date: November 21, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Andrea Pitzer visits Roanoke, Virginia, to detail what the city’s resistance can teach us about countering authoritarianism, both locally and on a national scale—particularly in relation to former President Trump’s resurgence and his allies. Central to the story is the rise of grassroots activism, Beth Macy’s congressional run, and how local efforts like Do Good Virginia are innovating ways to defend democracy and vulnerable communities. The episode also draws on international and historical lessons about opposing strongman politics.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Stakes: Democracy in Crisis
- Opening Warning ([00:03]):
- Beth Macy: “If we don't stand for democracy now, we may very well lose it.”
- Pitzer’s Framing ([00:09]):
- Ongoing return of authoritarian tendencies not only nationally but worldwide.
- Roanoke as a case study: a blue pocket in a deep red region feeling the repercussions of Trump-era and post-2024 policies.
2. Local Color: Roanoke’s Political Climate after 2024
- Community Crisis ([00:37]):
- Post-2024, Roanoke grapples with fallout as a “community in crisis.”
- Protests, town halls (or lack thereof), and public frustration over representation—especially with incumbent Ben Klein.
- Beth Macy’s Candidacy Announced ([01:19]):
- Macy’s congressional run is public, sparked and supported by continual community activism.
3. Learning from History: From Camps to Strongmen
- Pitzer’s Expertise ([04:46]):
- Ties current authoritarian threats in the U.S. to global history—citing concentration camps, Nazi Germany, and how authoritarianism gains traction.
- Andrea: “We're right at the edge of this. Right. But we are not like Nazi Germany. We see these echoes... We have all this knowledge, we have all this ability to communicate... Don’t surrender it before it’s even taken.”
- Community Resilience ([05:52]):
- Encourages listeners not to capitulate to despair or fear before a true loss: “Don't give that up. Don't surrender it before it's even taken. Right.”
4. Organizing for Defense: Tactics & Models
- Historical and Academic Framework ([06:02]):
- Beth Macy shares political scientist Erica Chenoweth’s research:
- “Anti-authoritarian movements usually succeed once they reach a 3.5% threshold of active participation.”
- Four pillars for successful movements ([06:28]-[07:17]):
- Large participation bases
- Loyalty shifts in key supporting pillars
- Tactic innovation causing direct material costs for authority
- Organizational resilience and discipline
- Beth Macy shares political scientist Erica Chenoweth’s research:
- Local Efforts and Coalitions
- Dina Embriani creates Do Good Virginia ([07:57]): Grassroots, decency-oriented direct action & solidarity.
- Weekly protests and rapid response campaigns modeled after strategies seen in LA, Chicago, Portland, Charlotte.
5. Resistance in Action: Roanoke’s Evolving Model
- Sustained Protest and Civic Education ([08:42], [15:11]):
- Weekly demonstrations in downtown Roanoke grow in size and impact.
- Protesters coordinate education sessions post-protest, expanding collective knowledge on policy threats and practical activism.
- Andrea: “The way that authoritarian societies destroy whatever democracy they already have is by peeling off individual groups... As soon as you make one group dispensable and inhuman, then all it takes is moving the goalpost.”
6. Electoral Shifts: Virginia and Beyond
- Recent Blue Wave ([11:16]-[12:41]):
- Virginia swings decisively Democratic; every county goes bluer.
- Abigail Spanberger wins governor’s race by 15 points; GOP loses 13 House of Delegates seats.
- Noted nationwide shifts: New Jersey’s Democratic gubernatorial streak; a Democratic socialist wins NYC mayoralty.
- Backlash to Right-Wing Rhetoric ([12:07]):
- Spanberger’s opponent ran largely on anti-trans ads, to voter backlash.
7. Community Storytelling: Why It Matters
- “Paper Girl” & Public Schools ([14:35]):
- Macy’s new book, Paper Girl, connects local struggles to national divisions.
- Schools as cornerstones of democracy; the risk posed by systemic neglect.
- Beth Macy ([15:11]): “Our public schools, which are the foundation of our democracy, are in really rough shape.”
8. Culmination: Beth Macy’s Candidacy Announcement
- Event Atmosphere and Turnout ([18:58]):
- Overflow crowds, buzz of hope and urgency in the air.
- Array of community endorsements—mayor, local activists, working-class speakers.
- Notable Quotes:
- Trish White Boyd: “Not a Democrat has been in that seat since 1993. And this is very exciting.” ([19:57])
- Joe Cobb (Mayor): “Imagine a world where your congressional representative meets you on the corner just outside her office to talk with you about why you are protesting government overreach...” ([21:03])
- Dr. Rev. Bill Lee: “We’re going to send another tin woman to Congress, and she does not need to see the wizard because she already has a heart.” ([23:12])
- Beth Macy’s Pledge:
- Beth Macy: “I pledge... to visit every county in the district, red or blue, to do the same thing I’ve been doing as a reporter for four decades, to listen. And believe me, y’all, I will be taking notes.” ([27:23])
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)
-
“The thumbs down is much more impactful than the Yellow Finger because it's a sign of disappointment instead of anger.”
– Beth Macy ([00:45]) -
“The first concern I heard was that people were scared.”
– Andrea Pitzer ([05:52]) -
“Historically, it's very rare for anti authoritarian movements to fail after they achieve a high threshold of participation. About three and a half percent.”
– Beth Macy (relaying Erica Chenoweth) ([06:13]) -
“I never try to sugarcoat things. I think that the next four years will be rough... They're very well organized this time.”
– Dina Embriani ([07:28]) -
“People have always found ways in the most extreme political situations to fight that... We’re just asking you to show up.”
– Andrea Pitzer ([09:44]) -
“The rising tide that was supposed to lift all boats... has somehow only lifted up those with yachts.”
– Andrea Pitzer ([25:49]) -
“I'm doing this not because I want to be a politician, never on my go card, but because I'm worried that our American democracy... is at serious risk.”
– Beth Macy ([27:01])
Segment Timeline
- [00:03 – 01:57]: Framing today’s threat to democracy; Roanoke as a focal community
- [04:46 – 06:02]: Historical parallels; introducing key activists and local response to Trump policies
- [06:02 – 07:17]: Lessons from global resistance; Erica Chenoweth’s framework for successful anti-authoritarian movements
- [07:28 – 09:44]: Building coalitions, forming Do Good Virginia, practical organizing
- [10:58 – 12:41]: Review of recent pivotal elections and their significance
- [14:35 – 17:17]: Storytelling as political power—Macy’s work, tangible community effects
- [18:58 – 27:46]: Macy’s campaign launch event: atmosphere, speakers, testimony, Macy’s promise and the movement’s future
Tone and Language
- Candid, urgent, conversational, but deeply rooted in research and lived experience.
- Speakers blend dark humor, hard-earned hope (“I cannot afford to have despair because the children must have hope.” – Dina Embriani, [07:49]), and a call for participation-over-panic.
- Emphasis on solidarity, local agency, and the long arc of history—tempered by community realism.
Final Takeaways
Roanoke is portrayed as a microcosm and a hopeful model for grassroots resistance to authoritarian drift in America. The dense network of organizers, educators, and volunteers, the rapid pivot from fear to action, and the choice to learn from the failures and successes of anti-authoritarian movements worldwide—these all demonstrate that the defense of democracy is local and requires new ways of showing up for each other. Beth Macy’s run isn’t the culmination but a catalyst within a broader movement.
“People have always found ways in the most extreme political situations to fight that... We're just asking you to show up.”
– Andrea Pitzer ([09:44])
For more, visit AndreaPitzer.com or subscribe to Next Comes What.