Why This Is Bigger Than Trump

Summary

Next Comes What – Episode Summary

Podcast: Next Comes What
Host: Andrea Pitzer
Episode: Why This Is Bigger Than Trump
Date: January 8, 2026
Theme: Understanding the recent U.S. intervention in Venezuela and examining its roots in long-standing American patterns of power, showing why resisting Trump and his circle requires deeper changes than simply defeating one man.

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Overview

In this episode, Andrea Pitzer dissects the 2026 U.S. military intervention in Venezuela, arguing that it represents not only a crisis driven by Trump but a continuation of historic patterns in American presidential power. Pitzer draws lessons from the past century of U.S. foreign interventions and the rise of global strongmen leaders, showing that the challenge facing Americans is much larger than the figure of Trump. Instead, systemic changes—particularly in how power and wealth are distributed—are required to prevent future abuses.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Venezuela Crisis: Summary and Immediate Implications

• US Attack on Venezuela: The episode opens with breaking coverage of the U.S. striking Caracas, kidnapping President Nicolás Maduro and his wife, following weeks of tension over oil, drugs, and migration.
  • “The US attacked Caracas, the capital city of Venezuela, then kidnapping Nicolas Maduro and his wife Celia Flores, flying them out of the country…” — Andrea Pitzer [00:44]
• Legal and International Fallout: The move is unprecedented and illegal under international law, with Venezuela’s UN representative condemning it and legal scholars questioning its legitimacy.
  • Quote: “Unfortunately, I don't think there's a legal basis for what we're seeing in Venezuela. ... all the arguments I've heard so far don't hold water.” — Andrea Pitzer summarizing UNA Hathaway [05:43]

2. Why This Isn’t Just About Trump

• Bigger Than One Man: Pitzer stresses the importance of recognizing that Trump is a symptom, not the ultimate cause, of America’s authoritarian drift.
  • “Perhaps the most important thing that I'll say today is about why in some ways this is hardly about Donald Trump at all.” — Andrea Pitzer [01:19]
  • “Donald Trump didn't hijack the system. He is the fulfillment of a long dominant strain of American presidential power.” — Andrea Pitzer [14:14]
• Presidential Overreach Is Historic: Drawing on history from the Monroe Doctrine through the Latin American coups of the 20th century, Pitzer explores how American presidents have often pursued unchecked power abroad.
  • “Presidents in the United States have always knocked at the door of unlimited and extra legal power.” — Andrea Pitzer [21:01]

3. The Pattern of Strongmen and Manufactured Crisis

• Distracting from Domestic Issues: Trump’s intervention is compared with historic uses of foreign conflict to shore up power at home.
  • “There's a long history of leaders sparking foreign conflicts to protect their rule at home in moments of crisis.” — Andrea Pitzer [13:25]
• Strongmen Around the World: Pitzer draws parallels between Trump and leaders like Berlusconi, Hitler, Duterte, and Orban.
  • “Looking at our own Trump, you can see the similarities to people like Berlusconi, Hitler, Duterte, Orban and others.” — Andrea Pitzer [20:10]

4. The Failure of US Institutions & Billionaire Capture

• Systemic Weakness: Congress has failed to check presidential overreach; U.S. institutions have capitulated to the interests of billionaires and corporations.

  • “Our institutions caved to those billionaires interests first.” — Andrea Pitzer [17:33]

• The Role of Media and Propaganda: Pitzer addresses how the rise of right-wing media and billionaire control over platforms has undermined democratic accountability.

  • “One can even imagine a Clintonian Democratic Party... leaning farther into the scapegoating of black America...” — Andrea Pitzer [16:34]
  • “But our institutions caved to those billionaires interests first. Musk is funding the Republicans again.” — Andrea Pitzer [17:33]

5. The Limits of Resistance & What’s Needed Now

• Voting Is Not Enough: Voter action alone hasn’t sufficed to curb authoritarianism, in the US or abroad.

  • “If voting was the way that we were going to exit this authoritarian trap, then it would have worked in 2018. It would have worked in 2020... and I don't need to tell you the cat came back the very next day.” — Andrea Pitzer [26:16]

• Root Cause: Economic Capture: The underlying economic system, run by and for billionaires, is at the heart of America’s political ills.

  • “We have an economic problem that is masquerading as a political problem. We have to reimagine government entirely.” — Andrea Pitzer [26:45]

• Hope and Agency: Pitzer advocates for local action, visionary policymaking, and sustained movement-building beyond any one election or leader.

  • “The thing that, that we have to do is give people a sense of their own agency and a sense that actually what you do matters and what you do can make a difference in your own life.” — Andrea Pitzer [27:13]
  • “Pick a policy that you believe would make the country a better place over time and work close to home over the long term to bring that one good thing into the world.” — Andrea Pitzer [31:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Strongman Politics:
  “Trump is both their leader and their conduit.” — Andrea Pitzer [16:01]

• American Tradition of Illegitimate Force:
  “It is vanishingly rare for a president to reject these kinds of measures wholesale.” — Andrea Pitzer [21:50]

• Reflection on Trump’s Character:
  “There is no intellectual or spiritual conflict happening, no struggle for his soul.” — Andrea Pitzer [18:21]
  “He is the pure untrammeled desire for power and a greater ability to punish anyone he wants.” — Andrea Pitzer [19:12]

• Historical Parallels:
  “In 1954, the CIA carried out a coup to oust the sitting president of Guatemala and assist the United Fruit Company's land interests under the guise of the Red Scare...” — Andrea Pitzer [10:40]

• On Institutional Cowardice:
  “Less than courageous members of Congress fall all over themselves to avoid taking responsibility, to avoid the momentous vote declaring war. But make no mistake, bombing another nation's capital and removing their president is an act of war, plain and simple.” — Jake, guest/cohost [22:33]

• Path Forward:
  “We have so much space in which to offer Americans a vision of a better future.” — Andrea Pitzer [31:05]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:16: Breaking: US military action against Venezuela, the kidnapping of Maduro
• 05:43–06:36: Legal & international reactions; UN and scholars weigh in
• 07:32–08:41: Discussion of Congress’s impotence, history of executive overreach
• 09:05–13:25: Historical backdrop: Monroe Doctrine to Cold War coups
• 13:25–15:00: Why Trump’s actions are part of a recurring pattern
• 18:04–19:12: The billionaire influence and Trump’s lack of inner conflict
• 20:10–21:36: Parallels with global strongmen and historical precedents
• 25:06–27:13: Limitations of voting, need for systemic change
• 27:51–28:35: Concrete policy examples (e.g., congestion pricing)
• 30:09–31:41: Closing on hope, agency, and building new institutions

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Conclusion – Tone and Call to Action

Andrea Pitzer brings urgency but clear-eyed historical analysis, warning that the US’s latest crisis isn’t unique to Trump but rooted in decades—or centuries—of patterns. Her call is both sober and hopeful: defeating individual strongmen is not enough without deep structural change and active citizen involvement in remaking government.

“Take up the challenges of the moment, but also pick a policy that you believe would make the country a better place over time and work close to home over the long term to bring that one good thing into the world.” — Andrea Pitzer [31:41]

Transcript

[Andrea Pitzer]

We're coming on the air this morning because Venezuelan authorities are confirming that military areas are being targeted and they are blaming the U.S. like me, many of you probably woke up on Saturday to find that the US had bombed Venezuela. This is coming after weeks of the US ramping up pressure on the government of President Nicolas Maduro, including seizing two oil tankers and conducting deadly military strikes on alleged drug boat smugglers and kidnapped its ethically and electorally dubious but de facto president Nicolas Maduro.

[Jake]

We're learning more about what led to the President's decisive actions. And it could have been Maduro's dancing that was the last straw.

[Andrea Pitzer]

We now know more or less what happened.

[Jake]

He gets up there and he tries to imitate my dance a little bit.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The US attacked Caracas, the capital city of Venezuela, then kidnapping Nicolas Maduro and his wife Celia Flores, flying them out of the country and bringing them to.

[Jake]

The US Damn straight we did.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Attorney General Pam Bondi referenced indictments for couple in the Southern district of New York where he and his wife Celia Maduro will be held accountable. So today I want to talk about what happened, how these events fit into history and why it's imperative to stop Trump.

[Jake]

I don't want to feel vicious, but.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Perhaps the most important thing that I'll say today is about why in some ways this is hardly about Donald Trump at all.

[Jake]

Just give me somebody a warm body.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And that fact matters a lot for what we can all be doing right now.

[Jake]

So with that, I leave you.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Now. We still don't know everything about how this attack unfolded.

[Jake]

How much do you think though this is about immigration? How much do you think this is about oil? How much do you think this is actually about drugs?

[Andrea Pitzer]

Within a larger pool of deaths, the BBC has reported their reports of 32 Cuban officers and intelligence agents who were killed.

[Jake]

There's been a long standing agreement between.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Cuba and Venezuela with Cuba having been providing Maduro's personal security detail going Back.

[Jake]

To the 2002 coup d' etat against the democratically elected, at that point, the President of Venezuela, Ugo Chavez. He was temporarily overthrown for a few days in a US backed coup.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Hauled into court on Monday, Maduro entered a plea of not guilty and declared himself still President of Venezuela.

[Jake]

I consider myself a prisoner of war. I was captured at my home in Caracas. The judge cut him off.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The Miami Herald has been reporting since October that backroom negotiations that were brokered by Khadr had been happening. The administration here in D.C. was seeking the removal of Maduro and cooperation with U.S. interests from the current vice president in Venezuela and others who would with her stay in power in Maduro's absence. The de facto leader there has now for the first time appeared on camera demanding the immediate release of Nicolas Maduro and his wife, calling their capture a kidnapping. And it's not clear if the administration was disappointed by the Vice President Del Rodriguez demand for Maduro's return in the wake of the kidnapping. See that pushback from Rodriguez and ultimately.

[Jake]

I don't think it was pushback. I think that she, you know, you hear a different person than I hear.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But whatever the Trump administration was hoping for. So you have spoken to her?

[Jake]

We talked to him.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Oh, you did speak.

[Jake]

They've been very good.

[Andrea Pitzer]

It's possible that. That there was really not any serious plan in place Y f'd around and he found out, or that if it existed.

[Jake]

Breaking at this hour, this major development involving the U.S. and Venezuela. Sources telling ABC News tonight that the U.S. has now given Venezuela's interim leader a list of demands that must be met before Venezuela can sell its oil again.

[Andrea Pitzer]

That events are going to go at all the way the White House is.

[Jake]

Hoping that they will, demanding Venezuela kick out Russia, Iran, Cuba and sever economic ties with them.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The lack of any resolution beyond the kidnapping itself hasn't stopped Trump from discussing the control over the oil industry he plans to have.

[Jake]

We're going to have our very large United States oil companies, the biggest anywhere in the world, go in, spend billions.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Of dollars or his associates from setting their sights on future seizures of land or people from Cuba to Colombia to Greenland.

[Jake]

This commander in chief, he did something people talked about doing. You just wait for Cuba.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Deputy White House Chief of Staff and Homeland Security Adviser Stephen Miller.

[Jake]

The United States of America is running Venezuela. By definition, that's true.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Who has taken the lead for some time now on the brutal operations? Growing protests tonight in Minneapolis. An ICE agent shot a woman there, witnesses say, in the face as she was in her car. She is dead. He killed her. Involving immigrant detention and enforcement. In the US you can talk all.

[Jake]

You want about international niceties and everything else, but we live in a world, in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power.

[Andrea Pitzer]

He is said to be taking a more elevated role in overseeing US interests in Venezuela as well as the future.

[Jake]

Of the free world, Jake, depends on America being able to assert ourselves and our interests without apology.

[Andrea Pitzer]

So it's important to keep in mind first and foremost that this operation is illegal. In an interview with Isaac Chotiner, Incoming president of the American Society of International Law. Yes, it does still exist. UNA Hathaway explained. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a legal basis for what we're seeing in Venezuela. There are certainly legal arguments that the administration is going to make, but all the arguments I've heard so far don't hold water.

[Jake]

We're going to head to the UN Where Samuel Moncado, permanent representative of Venezuela, is speaking to the United Nations Security Council.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And again, that's from an expert in the field.

[Jake]

The events of January 3rd constitute a flagrant violation of the UN Charter perpetrated by the US government. In particular, the principal violation of the principle of sovereign equality of states.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Himself has agreed that the U. S Kidnapped Maduro.

[Jake]

It's not a bad turn. Go ahead.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And now he is looking to exercise dictatorial power. At home, he's a dictator, and abroad.

[Jake]

They always call me a dictator.

[Andrea Pitzer]

His administration is mired in the dead dreams and the rhetoric of the 20th century. Senator Rand Paul is the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Treating oil as the most critical international resource and communism as the greatest threat to the country.

[Jake]

What I would say is, look, there's no love lost for Maduro. I've written a book, the Case Against Socialism. I'm glad he's gone. I've described how teenagers are scrounging for.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Food in Venezuela if Republicans in Congress refuse to act. There really aren't a lot of institutional means to stop the US Violation of Venezuelan sovereignty.

[Jake]

This is not a new thing. So there's a bigger, broader debate we should be having here. And I don't think telling the people of Venezuela, we're coming, the green goes are coming, we're going to run your country. Oil companies will come in and run you like we did in the 19th century. I think that even our friends will resist that.

[Andrea Pitzer]

As Steve Vladek wrote this week for his 1 1st newsletter, a blatantly unlawful use of military force overseas will go unremedied because there's no viable legal pathway to challenge it and because the one branch of government historically in a position to hold the executive accountable. In these cases, you might remember it, Congress has become completely feckless, not just in general, but in pushing back against unlawful unilateral uses of military force specifically. When I first started this podcast, I wanted to give examples of how we in the US have been repeating grim history at home and abroad. We are seeing a return to power, kind of of a past that never got left behind in the world people seem to be able to see these repetitions more easily.

[Jake]

We aren't on the verge of an authoritarian takeover. We are in the middle of it.

[Andrea Pitzer]

In part because the governing powers currently are embracing the parallels.

[Jake]

This whole period that happened after World War II, where the west began apologizing and groveling and begging, I don't even know honestly what you're talking about right.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Now, but today I'll run through a little bit of the history anyway just to make the current pattern clear. Under the Monroe Doctrine, announced two centuries ago, the US Claimed a right to block foreign governments from influencing the leadership and policies of any nation in north and South America and Central America.

[Jake]

In 1823, few European countries took the Monroe Doctrine seriously.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The Doctrine was established in the face of the expanding independence of many countries in the Western hemisphere by the 1890s.

[Jake]

The US now is becoming a significant power. Now when the US spoke now, people paid attention.

[Andrea Pitzer]

A century after the Monroe Doctrine was adopted, it was expanded by Teddy Roosevelt.

[Jake]

In 1902, the Venezuelan government defaulted on loans that they had secured from European countries. And countries actually sent their fleet to block Venezuelan ports in an attempt to force the government to pay the debts that they owed. And when Roosevelt saw that happening, he said, now wait a minute, we will collect it for you.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Who claimed that even beyond European interference, the United States also had the responsibility to preserve order and protect life and property in these other countries.

[Jake]

The US was viewed through a different prism after the interventions began in 1905 under the Roosevelt Corollary.

[Andrea Pitzer]

In 1933, FDR shifted gears somewhat emphasizing collaboration over military intervention with his Good Neighbor policy.

[Jake]

And that was the end of the corollary.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But in the wake of the Second World War, the threat of global Communism was seen as justifying just the kind of interventions authorized originally by the Monroe Doctrine. In 1954, the CIA carried out a coup to oust the sitting president of Guatemala and assist the United Fruit Company's land interests under the guise of the Red Scare from the Soviet Union. And across the 20th century as a whole, the US interfered to install or directly support dozens of dictators. This would be the first intelligence operation of many carried out by the US and Latin America in the name of anti communism. Now Trump is pretty incurious and uninformed.

[Jake]

But Arnold Palmer was all mad and.

[Andrea Pitzer]

He generally seems to be aware of only a handful of historical moments.

[Jake]

And I say that in all due respect to women, and I love women, but this guy, this guy, this is a guy that was old man, but.

[Andrea Pitzer]

His advisors are Able to capture his attention and his imagination.

[Jake]

He took showers with the other pros. They came out of there, they said, oh, my God, that's unbelievable.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Just as Cheney and Rumsfeld aimed under George W. Bush to finish the war in the Middle East.

[Jake]

You know, you regret every single casualty. I visit with the families, we spend time with the wounded when they come back. I visit with the troops every chance I get. It's the toughest thing the president has to do, but it is absolutely the right thing to do.

[Andrea Pitzer]

That they had been forced to quit during his father's presidency.

[Jake]

I think for us to have gone on and taken Baghdad, sort of accepted the responsibility for the political future of Iraq, set ourselves up for a long term occupation of an Arab nation, I don't think would have been well received in the region.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Donald Trump's advisors have used his fetish for fossil fuels.

[Jake]

How about, we're buying oil from Venezuela. When I left, Venezuela was ready to collapse. We would have taken it over.

[Andrea Pitzer]

We would have gotten all that oil to attack Venezuela.

[Jake]

You know, where the oil, you know, their oil is garbage. It's horrible. The worst. You can get tar, it's like tar. And to refine it, you need special plants.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And so we repeat a very predictable history, in part because America has erected only limited guardrails without managing to fundamentally change deeply and permanently.

[Jake]

Well, I think, to put it in context, this is the biggest thing that has happened in US foreign policy to Latin America in 65 years, since the.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Bay of Pigs, since the country's Monroe Doctrine adventurism first began.

[Jake]

It's interventionist. It kind of looks like, and it seems like a return to a different era. It's a return to a different era. Good thing. I think it is a good thing.

[Andrea Pitzer]

There's a long history of leaders sparking foreign conflicts to protect their rule at home in moments of crisis.

[Jake]

Trump wasn't going after drug trafficking. You talked that in earlier segments of releasing Hernandez and stuff like that from Honduras. He wasn't interested in restoring democracy. Maybe he wanted to do something about checking Russia and China's influence. Really what he wanted to do was to distract.

[Andrea Pitzer]

That is part of what's happening here as it has happened elsewhere. Yet it's important to note that Trump himself is not the cause of all our ills, because what's happening is part of a long arc that brought him to power. If the medium is the message and it doesn't matter what we say on tv, why are we all here tonight and why am I asking this question? Donald Trump didn't hijack the system. He is the fulfillment of a long dominant strain of American presidential power.

[Jake]

I didn't say it didn't matter what you asked.

[Andrea Pitzer]

On tv, the medium is the message. In this case, too, I said that.

[Jake]

The effect of tv, the message of TV is quite independent of the program. That is, there is a huge technology involved in TV which surrounds you physically, and the effect of that huge service environment on you personally is vast. The effect of the program is incidental.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Donald Trump is our sick nation showing us our worst side, the country's delusions, gullibility, love of gross excess, cruelty, hypocrisy, and the worship of money.

[Jake]

I think it's a terrible thing. I think Bill Clinton's a big boy. He can handle it. But you probably have pictures being exposed of other people that innocently met Jeffrey Epstein years ago, many years ago, and they're, you know, highly respected bankers and lawyers and others.

[Andrea Pitzer]

In every state, there are always unethical actors.

[Jake]

Today on Face the Nation, Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, Republican of Wisconsin, who due.

[Andrea Pitzer]

To ideology, perversion, or both, want to oppress the vulnerable and garner power for themselves.

[Jake]

I've been so busy being investigated and preparing for this lynch be starting tomorrow that I haven't had an opportunity. You called a meeting of the United States Senate, a lynch be.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Trump is both their leader and their conduit.

[Jake]

This man has been fighting communism. He's been showing that over 20 years. The Democrat Party has been infiltrated. Therefore, we're going to get him. Well now, Senator, I think a lynching bee is a good name for it. Bill.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Senator, for anyone who worries about unfairly demonizing the Republican Party in all this, let me say that until radio and television propaganda channels were established and mainstreamed in the wake of Nixon, it could have gone either way.

[Jake]

The era of big government is over.

[Andrea Pitzer]

One can even imagine a Clintonian Democratic Party of expanding corporate interests and power leaning farther into the scapegoating of black America via even worse rhetoric about super predators and sister soldier moments.

[Jake]

I know she is a young person, but she has a big influence on a lot of people. And when people say that, if you took the words white and black and you reversed them, you might think David Duke was giving that speech.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Clinton's second administration, which furthered the Reagan era dismantling of parts of the social safety net in this country, could have easily set the stage for a Democratic Party caving entirely to a different kind of dangerous populism in the US Than the model we have at present. But that's not where we are.

[Jake]

To those who insist that the era of big government is over, hear me when I say this. No longer will City hall hesitate to use its power to improve New Yorkers lives.

[Andrea Pitzer]

And you could argue that it's the billionaires, not the Republicans, who have shattered journalism and broken our information networks. But our institutions caved to those billionaires interests first. Musk is funding the Republicans again. He's giving money for the 2026 US midterm elections. And the billionaires have overwhelmingly abetted the Republican party in its battle over the last half century against functioning government, as well as its denial of human rights and civil rights.

[Jake]

Tonight, Elon Musk's AI chatbot grok coming under fire from regulators across the globe.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Over a rise in non consensual and.

[Jake]

Sexualized deep fake images of women and children.

[Andrea Pitzer]

It's important to note that, that Donald Trump is not a tragic figure.

[Jake]

I think it's a terrible thing.

[Andrea Pitzer]

There is no intellectual or spiritual conflict happening, no struggle for his soul.

[Jake]

They're asking me questions about Jeffrey Epstein. I thought that was finished.

[Andrea Pitzer]

No noble goal defeated by his personal limitations.

[Jake]

I built many ballrooms and many buildings and that's my greatest strength actually.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Whatever his current mental incapacity or illness, he has always been incapable of reflection or regret. The now exonerated members of the group known as the Central Park Five are suing Donald Trump for defamation after comments he made about them at a presidential debate last month. The complaint accuses the former President of making, quote, demonstrably false statements while on stage in Pennsylvania in September.

[Jake]

They pled guilty then they pled we're not guilty again.

[Andrea Pitzer]

All that not true. He is the pure untrammeled desire for power and a greater ability to punish anyone he wants.

[Jake]

But we can't take a chance after having done this incredible thing last night of letting somebody else take over. Where we have to do it again. We can do it again too.

[Andrea Pitzer]

All this will continue until we stop it.

[Jake]

Nobody can stop us. There's nobody that has the capability that we have.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Not only is Nicolas Maduro a monstrous leader, other countries have terrible leaders as well. I haven't seen him. Monica, what is the President saying? The President is saying, Hallie, that he has just watched the clip of the event which took place in Minneapolis. He says, quote, it is a horrible thing to watch. The woman screaming was in the President's own words. He is making this assessment. It's unclear with what evidence, but the President is saying the woman screaming was obviously a professional agitator and looking at our own Trump, you can see the similarities to people like Berlusconi, Hitler, Duterte, Orban and others.

[Jake]

The speaker and some others have said that this is the.

[Andrea Pitzer]

This was.

[Jake]

This driver was weaponizing her vehicle. What do you say to that?

[Andrea Pitzer]

I think that their editorializing of this event to justify a public murder is disgusting. It is horrifying. And watch it for yourself. Watch it for yourself and make that assessment to yourself. And which of these leaders are lying to you with their statements? Presidents in the United States have always knocked at the door of unlimited and extra legal power.

[Jake]

Apparently, this attack's been under planning for three or four months, and so there's plenty of time to ask Congress's permission. I think it's disdainful, but I don't think he's the first president to do it.

[Andrea Pitzer]

They have all been flawed men in a flawed country, and most have succumbed to one degree or another to the temptation to use force that was illegitimate under international law.

[Jake]

Even those who celebrate the demise of the socialist authoritarian regime in Venezuela, as I do, should give pause to granting the power to initiate war to one.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Man, whether through aggressive war, covert assassinations, unauthorized bombings, or drone strikes on civilians. It is vanishingly rare for a president to reject these kinds of measures wholesale.

[Jake]

The power to initiate war is so vast a power that it must be confined by checks and balances, as happened.

[Andrea Pitzer]

For instance, when, through a veto attempt, Harry Truman failed to stop Congress's attempt to give him the power to declare a state of emergency to round up dissident civilians and put them into camps. In 1950, President Truman called it the.

[Jake]

Greatest danger to freedom of speech, press and assembly since the alien and sedition laws of 1798. He also said it was a mockery of the Bill of Rights and that it was a long step towards totalitarianism.

[Andrea Pitzer]

So the opportunity to commit crimes under international law and violate sovereignty is always a temptation for us Presidents.

[Jake]

Less than courageous members of Congress fall all over themselves to avoid taking responsibility, to avoid the momentous vote declaring war. But make no mistake, bombing another nation's capital and removing their president is an act of war, plain and simple.

[Andrea Pitzer]

In the past, there has always been public pressure to resist for fear of consequences. But over the course of the United States existence, what it has gotten away with is a long list.

[Jake]

I should have kept all the end of getting in. Fine.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Okay.

[Jake]

Yes, sir.

[Andrea Pitzer]

That's President Nixon speaking.

[Jake]

In 1972, Peter Corn blew the National Security Archive.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Can you explain to us what Nixon's talking about here? But as the human sum of nearly all the ways in which our country has been flawed.

[Jake]

Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger launched a preemptive strike against Salvador Allende. They decided to stop him from being inaugurated as president of Chile. He hadn't even set foot in the Moneda palace when Nixon and Kissinger just simply decided to change the fate of Chile. Nixon instructed the CIA to make the Chilean economy scream.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Trump's greed for unbridled power means that he is opening all the doors at which the temptation to use extrajudicial power knocks. And that is a difference. And while some of the countries he has in his sights are oppressive ones that do harm to other nations abroad, President Trump says the US Is ready to intervene. In a social media post, the commander in chief said, quote, we are locked and loaded and ready to go. If Iran shoots and violently kills peaceful protesters, the US Always has the potential to do the most harm. Because for now, though probably not forever, the United States is the dominant power in the world. Meantime, the president's reacting to criticism about his ambitions for Greenland. Secretary of State Marco Rubio reportedly playing down prospects of the US Taking it by force in a closed door meeting yesterday on Capitol Hill. Outside of nuclear conflict, the US Capacity for dangerous and destabilizing international crime sprees is far greater than that of any other country, and Trump is leaning into it. But a statement from the press secretary last night kept US Military action on the table. Fundamentally changing the country will rely on providing a better life for people who have ceased to believe it's possible.

[Jake]

Anat Shankur Rosario is the principal of ASO Communications and host of Words to Win by podcast. She's an expert on why certain messages.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Falter where others deliver the limited guardrails that had been established in the US before to protect the poor, disabled, and historical targets of discrimination, or to provide for public health and safety at home, not to mention restrictions on military adventurism abroad. Those have all been shown to be woefully inadequate. If voting was the way that we were going to exit this authoritarian trap, then it would have worked in 2018. It would have worked in 2020. It would have worked to the extent that we staved off the worst of the red wave in 2022, and I don't need to tell you the cat came back the very next day. Through community action and pressure on our representatives, we can negotiate small restorations of these measures in the present to save lives, but they won't be sufficient. The reason why even defeating Trump himself in 2020 didn't do it is the same reason why the Law and Justice Party is back in Poland is the same reason why we see this kind pattern with authoritarian regimes. And it's because we have an economic problem that is masquerading as a political problem. We have to reimagine government entirely. People are pissed as and they're pissed everywhere in the world. And unless and until we actually confront the underlying root problem, which is that a handful of billionaires have purchased themselves politicians to do their bidding. And the discomfort that that extends across political parties. On the big picture side, we need to elect representatives and senators in state legislative bodies and in Congress who believe that government has a vital role in improving the lives of constituents. The thing that, that we have to do is give people a sense of their own agency and a sense that actually what you do matters and what you do can make a difference in your own life. And, and that on ramp, that activation on ramp leads to voting on a more granular side that can be done by embracing specific policies that we know about but have failed to adopt. Congestion pricing in New York is just one example, one which turned out to be radical in its effects, but well understood in advance by its successes elsewhere. People were alarmed about how it would work in practice.

[Jake]

Fewer cars, less pollution, crashes and traffic injuries are down. And 15 million bucks in new funding for transit improvements.

[Andrea Pitzer]

But it has been a gift to the city. Reducing traffic, raising revenue, and improving the quality of life for millions overnight, we can say that we've perhaps permanently changed people's behavior and there's no reason for them to go back. From vast troves of research on things like more accessible health care, universal basic income, and housing the unhoused. We have a lot of data on measures that would transform the everyday lives of people in the US they are doable in many locations already and can be prioritized in others. We have a lot of information on how stabilizing other parts of the world with aid instead of military intervention is very much in the US Interest. But all these failed policies that the Trump administration is emphasizing to the exclusion of nearly everything else will resurface again and again in our future, even after Trump is gone, until we don't just battle against the extraordinary actions themselves, but also create a government that functions and serves people. One issue in doing that is the degree to which business interests, the interests of the ultra wealthy and profit seeking as national pursuit have been valorized in the US at the expense of everything else. In the case of the attack on Venezuela, Trump suggested this week that oil companies had been tipped off in advance to the operation before and after. But the economy of coal and oil that Trump ran on during both his successful campaigns for president is a losing economy, and the US Will remain mired in the past in every way and will continue to wreak havoc here and overseas as long as people who vote cannot imagine a future in a country that actually meets their needs. Our current crisis marks the ignorance and the inanity of the Trumpian era, while also carrying the weight of history. It's easy to give up hope that things could change.

[Jake]

Too often in our past, moments of great possibility have been promptly surrendered to small imagination and smaller ambition.

[Andrea Pitzer]

Yet I think that we absolutely can shape the future.

[Jake]

They want to know if the struggles that afflict them can be solved. They want to know if it is right to hope again.

[Andrea Pitzer]

The reaction in Venezuela has been subdued, according to recent reporting from the Guardian. Even those who are happy to see Maduro gone are worried about what will come next. Limited protests have begun in US cities, but it's not yet clear what shape the future will take. You've heard me talk before about showing up for public demonstrations against Trump and his policies, and I do believe there is a national movement being cultivated by no kings and by anti war protests. This year will feel like a century, but Trump and his cronies are already tremendously unpopular. We have so much space in which to offer Americans a vision of a better future.

[Jake]

We will set an example for the.

[Andrea Pitzer]

World, but beyond this long year ahead, be thinking on an even bigger scale. As Laura Helmuth, my former editor for freelance pieces at the Washington Post, Slate and Scientific American, wrote this week, science is a good indicator of the scale on which we have to think to make real and lasting change. Of course there will be things that we have to react to in the moment, but we also need to make sure to move slow and build things, as so many scientific enterprises have shown us. If at any given juncture our president is just the symptom, the means by which the national illness makes itself known, then the goal has to be to actually change the country so it doesn't cough up someone like Donald Trump. Take up the challenges of the moment, but also pick a policy that you believe would make the country a better place over time and work close to home over the long term to bring that one good thing into the world. And that's it. Thanks for listening to Next comes what? Please share this with one person who's looking for ways to survive this message. To support this podcast, please become a paid [e-mail] and consider giving Next Comes what? A five star review where you get your podcasts.