No Bullsh!t Leadership — Episode 379: 5 Interview Questions That Expose the Bullsh!tters

Host: Martin G Moore
Date: December 2, 2025

Main Theme and Episode Purpose

In this episode, Martin G Moore dives into the art of hiring exceptional talent and, more specifically, how to separate genuinely competent candidates from “bullshitters” during the interview process. Drawing on both personal experience as a corporate leader and recent insights from The Economist, Moore critiques common hiring practices and champions a rigorous, no-nonsense approach to interviewing—one designed to uncover true track records, not just smooth talkers.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The High Stakes of Hiring

• Hiring is Inherently Risky:
  • Even with best practices, “recruiting talent is an imprecise science,” leading to costly errors for leaders and organizations if mishandled (03:30).
• Cautionary Tale – Brian Kelly's LSU Tenure:
  • Moore illustrates the enormous financial and reputational risks of bad hires with LSU’s 10-year, $95 million contract for football coach Brian Kelly—terminated after lackluster performance, leaving the university with a $54 million buyout obligation (04:28).
  • Quote:

    “To me, a 10-year contract with such onerous buyout terms seems to have an intolerable level of risk.” (05:51)

Lessons from the Brian Kelly Situation

1. Contractual Flexibility:
   • Always include a “terminate for convenience” clause to avoid punishing exit terms.
     • “I call it the love is gone clause.” (05:57)
2. Clear Expectations:
   • Ensure alignment and explicitness in what “acceptable performance” means in contracts.
3. Downstream Effects:
   • A bad hire causes major disruption—media, morale, and difficulty recruiting new talent (07:22).

The Hiring Process Toolbox

• Moore recaps his six pillars for successful hiring, emphasizing interviews as the make-or-break tool:
  • Advertising & brand awareness
  • Resume filtering
  • Interviews (main focus today)
  • Aptitude & psych testing
  • Reference checking
  • Robust contracts (08:31)
• Reference to Episode 343 ("Securing Top Talent") for deeper process tips (08:53).

Evaluating Interview Questions from The Economist

• The Economist surveyed readers for their favorite revealing interview questions:
  • Examples: “What was your favourite subject at university? What did you learn?” or “If we gave you a blank cheque and a free weekend, what would you do?”
  • Moore critiques these as potentially entertaining—but inadequate for assessing true competence (09:52).
  • Quote:

    “Cute, but I’m not sure it helps you sort out the dogs from the fleas.” (10:24)

• Personality-focused questions (e.g., "What do you do in your spare time?") might expose culture fit, but not job competence (10:31).

Why Relying on Resumes, Qualifications, or Cultural Fit Is Insufficient

• Some leaders believe interviews are only about fit if qualifications and references check out—a stance Moore contests:
  • Quote:

    “I found many people who were a good fit but couldn’t do the job they were being paid to do.” (11:19)

• Cultural fit is important but should be addressed in later interviews, not as the primary screen (11:32).
• With the rise of AI, it’s easier for unqualified candidates to look polished on paper (13:51).

National and Cultural Differences in Interview “Bullshitting”

• In the US, candidates are socialized to "sell themselves" from a young age, making it harder to spot the talkers versus the doers (12:52).
• Over-indexing on similarity of interests leads to groupthink; diversity of experience and perspectives is essential (14:48).

The Power of Multiple, Well-Structured Interviews

• Moore shares his own story:
  • “I went through five rounds of interviews over a six month period,” with each interviewer focusing on different needs and problems (15:14).

The Core Technique: Competency-Based (Behavioral) Interviewing

• Best Predictor of Future Success = Past Performance (16:48)
• Three-Step Interview Technique:
  1. Identify Deliverables:
     • Go beyond duties—define the four or five true measures of role success (17:02).
  2. Ask for Specific Examples:
     • Frame the question:
       • “One of the key outcomes of this role is [X]. Tell me in as much detail as you think appropriate about a time in the last two to three years where you did [X] successfully.” (17:27)
     • Evaluate:
       • Can they describe real achievements?
       • Is their detail appropriate for the role level?
       • Are their stories consistent with their resume profile? (17:48)
  3. Dig Deeper:
     • Redirect as needed.
     • Watch out for two types of responses:
       • The “optometrist” ("I, I, I")—egocentric exaggerators.
       • The “royal we”—team claims with little personal responsibility.
     • Moore’s favorite probing question:
       • Quote:

         “Can you give me some specific details about the role that you played individually in that outcome?” (18:42)

     • If lacking experience:
       • Ask: “Can you walk me through how you would approach that situation if you had to do it?” (19:21)
     • This combination rapidly distinguishes real performers from bullshitters.

The Toughness and Impact of the Approach

• Many senior candidates report Moore’s interviews as “the toughest interview I’ve ever had”—but this rigor exposes true value (19:34).
• Quote:

  “You’ve got to be strong to pull it off well.” (16:41)

• Requires courage and prioritizing respect over popularity as a leader (20:13).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Contractual Risk:

  “Either party should be able to terminate an employment agreement without punitive exit provisions.” (05:58)

• Cultural Reflection:

  “You can’t outsource the risk of a bad hire to hr, recruiters, or executive search firms—no matter how much you pay them.” (07:41)

• On Exposure:

  “That really exposes the bullshitters.” (18:47)

• On Interview Mindset:

  “Your mantra, as it is with all areas of leadership, has to be respect before popularity.” (20:17)

• Closing:

  “Listening is easy, leading is hard.” (20:50)

Key Timestamps

• 01:30 — Challenges and consequences of hiring decisions
• 04:28 — Brian Kelly/LSU case study on costly hiring mistakes
• 09:52 — Critique of The Economist’s favorite interview questions
• 16:48 — Introduction of the behavioral interview approach
• 17:27 — The exact behavioral interview question
• 18:42 — The follow-up question that exposes exaggerators
• 20:13 — Importance of courage and “respect before popularity”

Takeaways for Listeners

• Hiring mistakes are expensive and damaging; leaders must take ownership of the risk.
• Standard “fit” or generic personality questions aren’t enough to filter out strong bullshitters.
• The simple, disciplined practice of competency-based, detail-seeking interview questions—focusing on genuine deliverables and personal contributions—is unparalleled at revealing candidates’ true abilities.
• Don’t be afraid to make interviews tough and direct; respectful scrutiny is a leader’s best friend in hiring.
• Prioritize substance over surface, and never outsource the core responsibility of assessing who’s best for your team.

“You’re going to find out pretty quickly who has really achieved what they claim and who is just hoping they can get through the interview without being exposed as a master bullshitter.”
— Martin G Moore (20:23)