No Bullsh!t Leadership with Martin G Moore

Episode 370: How to Handle the Trade-Offs That Test Your Integrity
Release Date: September 30, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, Martin G Moore explores the real-world challenges leaders face when their personal or organizational values are put to the test—particularly when upholding those values comes with a tangible cost. Moore dissects the difference between values as aspirational statements and values as lived behavior, sharing hard-earned wisdom from his own leadership journey. He identifies the three main drivers that prompt leaders to compromise their values and concludes with a practical framework for maintaining integrity under pressure.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Values Only Matter When They Cost You Something

• Placing Values in Context: Moore kicks off the episode by stressing that values aren’t about what’s written in glossy brochures or talked about at town halls, but about decisions made when there's something significant at stake.

  • “Your people don't care what you say your values are. They only care what you do when the chips are down.” (03:12)

• HBR Inspiration: The episode was inspired by a Harvard Business Review article that declared, “Values don't count until they cost you something.” Moore reads and discusses key excerpts.

  • “The strongest cultural signals are those that involve visible personal risk... Without that cost, values remain performative. They read as theatre, not truth.” (07:15)

2. The Danger of Performative Values

• Widespread Hypocrisy: Moore observes many leaders tout integrity as a top value, but often abandon it when the stakes are personal.
  • “For many of these leaders, the minute they have to choose between acting with integrity and facing the personal risk or cost that this would involve, their integrity is conveniently swept aside. Not because they're bad people... you don't really find out what's important to someone until the pressure's on.” (09:00)

3. Personal Leadership Reflections: From CS Energy

• Culture Change in Practice: Moore recounts efforts to shift company values at CS Energy to be safe, create value, take accountability, and act with integrity—contrasting them with the entrenched behaviors he encountered.

  • “The culture I found there may well have been described using these four values: Safety in numbers, maintain resistance, deny ownership and milk your entitlements.” (14:30)
  • Describes scenarios like ‘soft theft’ (e.g., falsified overtime) as integrity litmus tests reflecting deeper systemic failures, not just individual misbehaviors.

• Leadership Dilemma: Moore explains why he didn’t take immediate, black-and-white action against misconduct, choosing instead a gradual approach to change, due to the scale of cultural inertia and union resistance.

  • “I had to suck up my own personal sense of integrity and take a slower, softer approach than I would have otherwise liked. Let's face it, it'd be pretty hard to run a power station if 50% of the workforce was dismissed in the same week.” (19:45)

4. The Three Temptations to Compromise Integrity

Moore identifies the main reasons leaders break from their values:

• 1. Money: Financial incentives or disincentives can overpower proclaimed principles.

  • “Some leaders have really strong values until it looks like upholding them is going to hit them in their own hip pocket.” (23:05)
  • Example: A CEO who asked Moore to manipulate financial reporting to meet bonus targets.

• 2. Fear of Conflict: Avoiding confrontation, especially with high performers, can lead to excusing bad behavior.

  • “It's a lot harder to step in and hold them to account for their behaviour. Talented jerks are normally pretty headstrong and it's often easier to just let them have their way.” (25:15)

• 3. Loss of Standing: Upholding values might mean disagreeing with superiors, risking reputation or career.

  • “To uphold any of these values means that occasionally you've got to take some risk. But what happens in a situation where upholding your values means that you're going to have to disagree with your boss?” (27:20)
  • Example: Disagreeing directly with a CEO over a redundancy program, which Moore admits he could have handled more tactfully.

5. Three-Part Test to Stay True to Your Values

Moore offers a practical framework:

• Step 1: Recognize Conflict

  • Be aware when your values are in tension with immediate action. Many act unconsciously, choosing the path of least resistance.

• Step 2: Threshold Question

  • “Are you compromising your values for personal reasons or for the good of the team and the company?” (31:18)
  • Intentionally distinguish between necessary flexibility due to larger organizational change versus expediency for personal gain.

• Step 3: Pay the Price Up Front

  • “If you can manage to get your head around the fact that staying true to your values is going to have some sort of toll, and that it's worth paying that price to keep your values intact, then you're going to find it way easier to make the right decision when it counts.” (34:45)
  • Ask yourself, “What's the worst that can happen?” If you can live with the consequences, stay the course; if not, reconsider if it’s truly your value.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Accountability:
  “Values are a behavioural choice that every individual makes. And despite the popular swing to victimhood over the last decade or so, we all have control over how we behave.” (10:30)

• On Compromising for Culture Change:
  “As much as it irked me, we knew that we were going to have to change it gradually from the inside out.” (19:30)

• On Leadership Vulnerability:
  “No one's perfect. And even when it comes to your most cherished values, it's almost impossible to be consistent 100% of the time. So you need to be kind to yourself.” (38:05)

Key Timestamps

• 00:33 – Main theme introduction: Values versus actions under pressure
• 07:15 – HBR quote: “Values don't count until they cost you something”
• 14:30–20:00 – CS Energy case study: confronting cultural norms vs. aspiring values
• 23:05–28:00 – The three drivers that tempt leaders to compromise (money, conflict, standing)
• 31:18 – Three-part decision test for integrity
• 34:45 – “Pay the price up front” leadership hack
• 38:05 – Accepting imperfection and the peril of benign neglect

Tone and Language

Moore’s tone is candid and direct, with a blend of practical wisdom and personal vulnerability. He uses the “no bullshit” theme to cut through theoretical approaches and ground the discussion in lived leadership experience.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode pierces the comfortable myths around values in leadership, arguing that integrity is truly proven only when it comes with real risk or sacrifice. Moore details how even experienced leaders are tempted to perform rather than live their values—especially when money, conflict, or personal standing are on the line. Using stories from his own leadership, he acknowledges complexity and shades of gray, offering a clear, actionable method for confronting ethical dilemmas. The message: Your true influence and cultural legacy are defined not by what you say about your values, but by what you’re willing to pay to uphold them.