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When we started this podcast, we had to figure out a lot of it on our own, which was pretty daunting at times. When you're starting off with something new, it seems like your to do list just keeps growing and it can begin to consume every waking moment. Finding the right tool that helps you out and simplifies everything can be a game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all e commerce in the US, from household names to brands that are just getting started. Shopify is also packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com selling leadership go to shopify.com leadership hey there and welcome to episode 373 of the no Bullshit Leadership Podcast. This week's episode learn from the lifers, but don't repeat their mistakes.
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Welcome to the no Bullshit Leadership Podcast. In a world where knowledge has become a commodity, this podcast is designed to give you something more access to the experience of a success successful CEO who has already walked the path. So join your host, Martin Moore, who will unlock and bring to life your own leadership experiences and accelerate your journey to leadership excellence.
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Every organisation has them long standing employees who've built their reputation on a deep knowledge of the business. They've also built a power base on top of this knowledge that they're reluctant to surrender and they won't do so without a fight. If you're brought into an organisation with a mandate for change, that's exactly what you have to do. And sometimes the lifers aren't inclined to help you with that. I've done a number of episodes over the years on change resistance which are worth going back to have a listen to. So we'll put some links in the show notes. Just remember, the people who built the house can't renovate it. No noise equals no change and you will have to shoot a hostage. Metaphorically speaking of course. You even know how to read between the lines. If you go back and listen to the CEO wants culture change or does he? In today's episode I'm going to examine specifically how to handle long tenured employees or lifers whose driving instinct is going to be to resist any change and to bring down the leader who's attempting to implement it. I'll start by looking at the good, the bad and the ugly of long tenured staff. I'll explore the psychology of why they resist any change so ferociously, and I'll give you five tips for integrating lifers into a newer, healthier culture. So let's get into it actually, before I get into today's episode, I just want to reaffirm our commitment to to not using AI for this podcast. It's become increasingly obvious to me over the last few months that there's a huge amount of AI generated drivel infecting the business landscape. Blogs, LinkedIn posts, and even books now reek with the pungent odor of AI. And make no mistake, this inevitably devalues the whole leadership space. Good writing that might stand on its own merits is being crowded out by an ever increasing volume of of blmonge tripe. Courtesy of ChatGPT Even some of the most heartfelt stories of personal adversity being shared on LinkedIn have the unmistakable hallmark of AI generated pros. After producing last week's episode on AI and the consulting industry, I really got to thinking more deeply about where this is all heading. Now the companies that get paid for their advice are substituting AI generated fluff for in place of real analysis. Houston, we have a problem. This is a slippery slope, and it's one we don't intend to step anywhere near. M and I have an absolute commitment to keeping the bullshit out of no bullshit leadership. Now, of course we use AI in our business as a productivity tool. We'd be crazy not to, but there's no way we'd ever let it bleed into this podcast. Just to give you some idea of how serious we are about this, every week I spend somewhere between 10 and 12 hours producing the 20 minute episode that drops on a Wednesday. That's research, scripting and recording the episode, and then producing the newsletter for LinkedIn. Once I've done that, the team gets it all ready for production. Now that doesn't include the weekly Moments episode that we introduced in 2023, which normally takes me another couple of hours to do. On top of that, we have been doing this religiously for seven years. Haven't missed a week. Even when I was in Hospital in 2019 with three broken ribs, a dislocated shoulder, and a collapsed lung, M found a way to get an episode out. Every week we release a new episode with original content driven from my practical experience of leadership and business. I'm sure you can tell this is authentic by the way I script and deliver the subject matter. And let's face it, some of my colorful expressions wouldn't be found within cui of a large language model. This is what's earned the podcast such a huge global following and we have no intention of messing with that. I want to make our commitment to quality really clear. There are no shortcuts to becoming a no bullshit leader, so I'll continue to use ChatGPT to tell me how to cook the perfect beef tenderloin or to select the right bottle of red in a restaurant. But when it comes to this podcast, we eat our own dog food. This is an AI free zone. Okay, now let's get into it. There are benefits and drawbacks to having long tenure employees in your team, and I want to start by going through the good, the bad and the ugly of these lifers. Let's start with the good. The first good thing is that they tend to know some parts of the business really, really well. For example, they might understand the supply chain, they might understand the technical evolution of the products they sell. They might understand the distribution network really well. All of these things can be highly valuable. The second benefit is their institutional knowledge and corporate memory. They've been with the company through thick and thin. They've seen mistakes being made and being fixed. They've likely seen multiple management teams come through, each with a different approach. And they know where the bodies are buried, which can often come in pretty handy. The third benefit is their informal networks. They've worked out how to get shit done. They know who to talk to about every issue that arises. And often these informal networks extend beyond the reach of the organization to external stakeholders as well as all of this can bring value. But let's talk about the bad. The first problem is change resistance. Have you ever heard one of the lifers say, ah, yeah, we tried that once but it didn't work? This is a really common problem and it stops you from moving forward. There will never be a shortage of reasons why you can't do something. The second problem is key person risk. Lots of your life has spent a huge amount of time and energy protecting their patch. They have deep knowledge that they're not inclined to share because they think it makes them indispensable. They resist capturing any of their unique knowledge in processes or systems because that would democratise that expertise. It'd make it available to everyone, which would thereby reduce their value. And the third problem is their historical power base. In founder led businesses this can be particularly tricky because it's likely that the lifers have a very strong relationship With a business owner. As the company grows and the founder wants to bring in competent management underneath to manage the growing business, the lifers are sometimes displaced. This causes all sorts of problems and they're not afraid to use the back door to go around management and and leverage their relationship with the owner. They seek founder support to resist the change and convince them to use the power of veto to stop management from making the very improvements that they were brought in to make. This happens in non founder led companies as well, but it's just a little harder to spot. And then there's the ugly. One of the most common hallmarks of your lifers is they're driven to protect the status quo. They'll come up with all sorts of reasons why you can't make the changes you want to make. And the tricky thing is that some of those reasons are actually valid. So you have to be astute enough to sort out the real issues from the red herrings. You should expect a concerted campaign of disinformation that's going to be mounted to try to dissuade you from changing anything. Another common response from long tenured staff is white anting. They'll try to undermine you personally and they'll try to discredit your agenda. I've seen people come up with some pretty outrageous stuff to try to stop me when I've been asked to bring change into a company. Personal attacks and ludicrous conspiracy theories aren't above a lifer who's committed to protecting their own power base. And the final ugly is holding you to ransom. It's not unusual for one of your lifers to be an opinion leader whom everyone in the organisation listens to and trusts. Over the years, they've managed to create a mystique around what they do. They've convinced everyone that they have unique knowledge that no one else could possibly acquire. Occasionally, I've seen lifers refuse to share their knowledge when asked because they think it will guarantee their continued employment. They're the first ones I sack. Apart from the fact that it's human nature to resist change, there are three main reasons why your lifers are not going to want to do things differently. The first is the erosion of their power base. People with very specific and unique knowledge often find that they're valued highly by their company. This has been reinforced over the years with performance ratings, pay rises and promotions. They're typically not leaders. More often than that, they're content experts whom everyone believes have irreplaceable knowledge. So if your power base has been Built on knowledge. What are you going to be incentivised to protect? Preserving the power base preserves your ongoing employment, your generous remuneration and your social status. The second reason is that often lifers are simply convinced they're right. They typically flourish in a knowledge based organisation and on top of that they're typically insulated from competitive forces. If knowledge is at the centre of your corporate values, then that's where your focus will be. There's a big difference between a knowing organisation and a learning organisation. And in terms of the way the culture feels, they are totally different. Knowing organisations tend to be risk averse, conforming and passive defensive. They're most often focused on compliance and procedures, not on innovation and growth. They are protectionist cultures that try to avoid any dissent or deviation from the conventional wisdom. No one questions the experts, which is how these lifers come to see themselves over time. People who are in these positions of power just believe they're right. The third reason is what I call the tenure illusion. Because of the value placed on knowledge. It's assumed that knowledge increases over time and it's also assumed that the value of that knowledge increases over time. That's how length of tenure becomes a proxy for knowledge and capability. But it's not necessarily the case. There is a massive difference between 20 years experience and one year's experience 20 times over. But people lean on the fact that they have long tenures in all sorts of interesting ways. They may dress it up as loyalty, playing that card as if it's irrefutable evidence that they're committed to the company. Or they may just become increasingly protective of the knowledge they've managed to acquire. The more complexity they can build around their knowledge, the better. Whichever way you look at it, long standing employees have a vested interest in the status quo and the only way for you to move forward is to break that link. Because when a culture becomes insular and protective, performance collapses. And that's precisely why they bring in leaders like you from the outside to make change. I want to finish with my five tips for integrating long tenured staff into a new performance focused culture. Because let's face it, if the old culture was focused on performance, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. Tip number one, listen and absorb. It's important to realise that for all the drawbacks, long term employees have a lot of potential value that can be harnessed. They understand the business profoundly, they know where the landmines are. Often they just don't view it through the right lens, which is why you're there. So listen to them carefully and try to root out the value in what they know. Often it can stop you from making rookie errors while you rush to shift the culture. Tip number two, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Leading on from the first point, it's really important that you try to preserve the good bits of the culture. Try to respect the history of the organisation and those who help to build it. What I learned in my career when leading teams into a new culture is that your success depends almost entirely on on how well you can blend the old with the new. So look for opportunities to integrate the knowledge of the lifers, as opposed to discarding it or ignoring it. As long as you have a focus on value above all else, you'll be able to find many ways to apply the wisdom of those who've gone before you. Tip number three, explain clearly why you can't just stay where you are. This is Change Management 101. There has to be a compelling reason to change. If you want someone to give up their power base, their status, their job security, their professional reputation or their sense of self worth, well, you know, you better have a pretty compelling reason why they should. What's in it for them? Why should they want to do things differently? Their whole belief system is predicated on their experience of the last 10, 20, 30 years. And that's why it's critical to create a burning platform that they realise they can't stay on forever. If you don't do this, they'll resist you, albeit covertly, for as long as they're on the team. Tip number four, change the language. Language is built up around the culture to keep people aligned with expectations. In companies that place a premium on tenure, the language centres around experience, knowledge, knowledge, seniority, effort, hard work and compliance. And these things are incredibly poor proxies for value. So that language has to effectively be replaced. The new language has to describe and support the cultural focus that you want. Value, accountability, performance, innovation, excellence and growth. These words have to be part of your everyday language until such time as people begin to understand what they mean and how they're different from what they've always known. Finally, tip number five, you have to make it clear that not changing is not an option. One of the things about lifers is that over time they become emboldened, they feel indispensable and sometimes untouchable, as if all their knowledge and experience in the company is going to keep them safe from any external shocks. And because they've seen management teams come and go, many of which weren't truly committed to change. They learned that they can outlast them. When I first took the reins at CS Energy, a worker at one of our power stations said to me, right to my face, mate, you're the sixth CEO I've seen. I was here before you came and I'll be here long after you're gone. And you know what? He was right now imagine how confident and secure he must have felt though to say that to me directly. You can't let this happen or you're going to lose the change battle. The lifers need to know that change isn't optional. They need to know that you are going to make a difference to the company. If they don't want to get on board, it's completely their choice. But if that's the choice they make, then they can't be there. And sometimes, unfortunately, you're going to have to make that decision for them. Just wrapping up. Wherever you have long standing employees, there will be a culture of change resistance. As a leader you need to decide whether or not that's okay. It's completely up to you. But just know that if you don't take an uncompromising position on the need for the lifers to get on board with the change agenda, the whole agenda will fail. They already have a massive armoury that they've built up over the decades to repel any change. And if you aren't at least equally committed, they're going to chew you up and spit you out. Alright, so that brings us to the end of a cheery little episode. 373 I really hope you enjoyed it. But as I'm sure you know, listening is easy. Leading is hard. That's why we created Leadership beyond the Theory. Our flagship program that turns insight into action and action into results. This is where we unlock the secrets of elite leadership performance and give you the tools you need to lead people who don't necessarily want to be led. I'm looking forward to next week's episode the art of empowering your people. Until then, I know you'll take every opportunity you can to be a no bullshit leader.