Desmond Bane Trade Grades, KD's Future & Stats That Explain The NBA Finals

Summary

Podcast Summary: No Dunks - Episode on Desmond Bane Trade Grades, KD's Future & NBA Finals Stats

Episode Details:

• Title: Desmond Bane Trade Grades, KD's Future & Stats That Explain The NBA Finals
• Host/Author: The Athletic
• Release Date: June 16, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of No Dunks, hosted by Jay Skeets, Tas Melis, Trey Kirby, and JD, the panel delves into the significant trade involving Desmond Bane, explores the ongoing Kevin Durant trade rumors, and analyzes key statistics shaping the NBA Finals. The discussion is both insightful and engaging, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the current NBA landscape.

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2. Desmond Bane Trade

a. Trade Details

The episode kicks off with an in-depth analysis of the recent trade where the Memphis Grizzlies sent Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic in exchange for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (KCP), Cole Anthony, and multiple first-round draft picks. The trade specifics include:

• Orlando Magic Receive: Desmond Bane
• Memphis Grizzlies Receive: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Cole Anthony, four unprotected first-round picks (including the 16th overall pick), and a first-round pick swap with Phoenix protected for top two picks ([04:17]).

b. Analysis for Orlando Magic

The hosts discuss how this trade impacts the Magic’s roster:

• Desmond Bane's Role: Bane brings exceptional three-point shooting (career 41%) and serves as a secondary playmaker. His presence is expected to enhance the Magic's offense, especially alongside players like Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero.

  JD: "Bane is a guy that does miss time... this is a Magic team that was completely banged up last year. ... They are losing some depth. But I'm very excited to see them in the Eastern Conference." ([05:35])

• Concerns: The significant draft capital given up raises questions about the long-term sustainability and flexibility of the Magic's roster. Additionally, Bane’s injury history (missing 24 games in the last three seasons) poses potential risks.

  Trey Kirby: "A first round pick in 2026... it's a lot of draft capital for Desmond Bain." ([04:52])

c. Analysis for Memphis Grizzlies

From the Grizzlies' perspective, the trade offers:

• Flexibility and Future Assets: Acquiring multiple draft picks allows the Grizzlies to rebuild and retool their roster, providing flexibility around key players like Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr.

  Trey Kirby: "This is smart from the Grizzlies to kind of see the writing on the wall like the team we had... it's a win-win trade." ([30:35])

• Team Dynamics: The Grizzlies aim to maintain their core while addressing weaknesses in defense and overall team performance.

d. Trade Grades

The hosts assign trade grades based on the benefits and costs for both teams:

• Orlando Magic: B to B+

  Trey Kirby: "I think it's probably between a B and a B plus... offense-wise, he's a good fit." ([21:59])

• Memphis Grizzlies: A-

  Trey Kirby: "This is an A minus for me... both sides are getting exactly what they want." ([30:35])

e. Comparisons to Other Trades

The panel draws parallels between this trade and the Hawks' acquisition of Dejounte Murray, highlighting similarities in player profiles and trade dynamics.

Jay Skeets: "I wonder if this could be similar to the Hawks trading for Dejounte Murray... it's the same idea." ([16:53])

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3. Kevin Durant Trade Rumors

a. Preferred Destinations

The discussion shifts to Kevin Durant and his preferred trade destinations: the Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs, and Houston Rockets. According to recent reports, KD is committed to these teams for a long-term extension.

b. Potential Trade Scenarios

The hosts analyze the feasibility and implications of Durant joining any of these teams:

• Miami Heat: Likely the most logical destination due to their defensive prowess and existing star players like Bam Adebayo.

  JD: "Miami Heat may be the best package... they would improve their offense." ([36:51])

• San Antonio Spurs & Houston Rockets: These teams are either in rebuild mode or have the flexibility to integrate a star player, though there are challenges related to salary cap and team dynamics.

  Trey Kirby: "It's going to cost whatever it costs for Kevin Durant... it's different scenarios." ([33:29])

• Other Speculations: Teams like the Clippers, Kings, and Timberwolves are mentioned as potential targets but deemed less likely due to various constraints.

Trey Kirby: "Kevin Durant doesn't want to pay taxes or live where it's cold... so bad news for Toronto." ([39:03])

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4. Other NBA News

a. Stephen Adams Re-signs with Houston Rockets

The Rockets have secured veteran center Stephen Adams with a three-year, $39 million contract extension, ensuring his stay in Houston and adding stability to their frontcourt.

JD: "He's still good... this is not a crazy contract." ([46:09])

b. Knicks Coaching Search

The New York Knicks are in search of a new head coach, with Mike Brown and Taylor Jenkins being the leading candidates. The panel discusses the strengths and potential impact these coaches could have on the Knicks' future.

Trey Kirby: "Mike Brown has been a successful defensive coach... Taylor Jenkins is good at experimenting with lineups." ([49:29])

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5. NBA Finals Game 5 Preview

As the NBA Finals intensify, the hosts examine key statistics that have influenced the series so far and predict their impact on the upcoming pivotal Game 5.

a. Key Statistics Discussed

• Clutch Performance:

  Trey Kirby: "No clutch points scored this series... Indiana is up two to one in these clutch games." ([53:08])

• Three-Point Shooting:

  JD: "The pacers have made 14 more threes than the Thunder... this feels like the Thunder could be that Nuggets team." ([54:55])

• Free Throw Attempts:

  Jay Skeets: "Jalen Williams has had 35 free throw attempts... keeping him effective will be crucial." ([55:41])

b. Predictions and Implications

The panel emphasizes the importance of Game 5, noting that historically, the winner of Game 5 often goes on to win the championship.

JD: "This is big... 17 of the 23 previous series, the winner of game five went on to win the championship." ([55:40])

They anticipate a close and decisive game, with both teams vying to secure their position in the series.

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Conclusion

The episode provides a thorough exploration of the Desmond Bane trade, offering balanced perspectives on its immediate and long-term effects for both the Orlando Magic and Memphis Grizzlies. Additionally, the panel navigates the turbulent waters of Kevin Durant's potential moves, shedding light on which teams might benefit most from acquiring him. The NBA Finals discussion encapsulates the critical moments and statistics that define the series' trajectory, setting the stage for an exciting Game 5. Overall, the episode delivers valuable insights for NBA enthusiasts looking to understand the complexities of recent trades and their implications on the league's landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• JD: "Bane is a guy that does miss time... this is a Magic team that was completely banged up last year." ([05:35])
• Trey Kirby: "This is an A minus for me... both sides are getting exactly what they want." ([30:35])
• Trey Kirby: "No clutch points scored this series... Indiana is up two to one in these clutch games." ([53:08])
• JD: "The pacers have made 14 more threes than the Thunder... this feels like the Thunder could be that Nuggets team." ([54:55])
• Jay Skeets: "Jalen Williams has had 35 free throw attempts... keeping him effective will be crucial." ([55:41])

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear and engaging overview for both regular listeners and newcomers to the No Dunks podcast.

Transcript

[Jay Skeets]

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[Tas Melis]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[JD]

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[Tas Melis]

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[JD]

Happy Monday, everyone. I hope you're feeling blessed. I'm just out here meditating. Sipping on a big old cup of shrimp. Sipping on a big old, big old cup of shrimp. Big old tall, tall glass of shrimp. They said, what do you want? They said, what do you want to eat? I said, I don't want no food. I said, bring me a tall, bring me a big old tall glass of shrimps. You see all those shrimps? You got 5, 10, 52 shrimps in there. Y' all probably never seen a shrimp before in your life.

[Jay Skeets]

Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the no Dunks podcast on the Athletic Network. It's Monday, June 16th, 2025. I'm Jay Skeets here in the Classic Factory. And alongside me, as always, Tas Melis.

[JD]

Transaction fans, this one's for you.

[Jay Skeets]

Next to him, it's the bearded one. Shirt's back on. Boo. It's Dre Kirby.

[Trey Kirby]

Hey, hey.

[Jay Skeets]

And over yonder, making the magic happen, super producer jd.

[JD]

Hello.

[Jay Skeets]

There he is. Jd stick with you for a second. Things sound a little different to me. Yeah, I know. We have a lot of new technology over at your desk. Is it freaking you out a little bit? It sounds like I'm scuba diving. Yeah. Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

You'll get used to it.

[Jay Skeets]

Feels good to everybody else, hopefully. Yeah.

[JD]

Drop a like if it sounds better. I've been working on this for the.

[Jay Skeets]

Last 10 hours straight. So what do we got? What do we got? Talk it through.

[JD]

Oh, we got a new road caster.

[Jay Skeets]

Two pro, two something or other. I don't know, but yeah. What do you mean you don't know? Didn't you just buy it? Okay, yeah. You say that because you had a long weekend putting it together, troubleshooting. There's always something, Skeets.

[JD]

There's always something.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah. Fascinating. It's going to take me a while to get used to this, but you.

[JD]

Know what it is? I think there's a slight delay and.

[Jay Skeets]

I'm going to work on that. Okay, that's okay. But as long as the stream team are given the thumbs up that we.

[Trey Kirby]

Sound okay, Paul says it sounds good.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, perfect.

[Trey Kirby]

Thanks, Paul.

[Jay Skeets]

Thanks, Paul. And it's just up here. It's just up here in our cans. We can deal with that. Hello to everybody here on a Monday morning. Hit the like button. Subscribe podcast listeners. Five star ratings and reviews. Game 5 of the NBA Finals tonight. Excuse me. A pivotal game five. That series tied to two. That's a pivotal game five. We're going to discuss that one later because the Southern lawyer paid us a visit this weekend. Good. Sir.

[Tas Melis]

We got ourselves a trade.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, What?

[Jay Skeets]

A Father's Day treat for you guys yesterday. The Memphis Grizzlies trading Desmond Bain to the Orlando Magic for Kentavious Caldwell Pope Cole Anthony. Four unprotected first round picks and one first round pick. Swap. I'll give you those actual picks. You got the 16th overall pick in this year's draft.

[Trey Kirby]

Easy.

[Jay Skeets]

That's going from Orlando to Memphis. Oh, yeah. You said that one was easy. Not this next one. A first round pick in 2026. It's probably going to come from the Suns, but you know, it's a. It's A convoluted pick.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh boy.

[Jay Skeets]

Like you'll do your head in trying to figure out how it could possibly be Washington's or Phoenix's at all. Okay. Anyway, it's a 26 pick and then the Magic's 28 and 30 unprotected first round picks and then the swap rights to a first round pick in 29 which is top two protected. But anyway, task that's a lot of draft capital going to the Memphis Grizzlies for Desmond Bain. I think we can start on the Magic side of things if you want to and then pivot to the Memphis Grizzlies. But what was your first reaction when you saw the details and what this deal was like?

[JD]

Everyone's seeing it. That's a lot of picks. That is a lot that they gave up and we'll get into every single pick and what it means and what it is later. Because it's boring to start with that. That's for sure.

[Jay Skeets]

I just did. We just did.

[JD]

Well no, we can get way deeper than that.

[Jay Skeets]

No, we don't need to. Yo.

[JD]

We can.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[JD]

I think three are pretty simple in that one next year. That's the complicated one. Yeah, can't wait to talk about that. Anyway, it is definitely a lot of picks for Desmond Bain. It is exciting on the other side to see an Eastern Conference team throw some punches and go for it here.

[Jay Skeets]

Right.

[JD]

Because I think this Magic team will be far better next year. They should be a top three team in the Eastern Conference standings. They should be. Last year they won 47 games when they were all healthy. Last season you put in Desmond Bain. I still think this is going to be an incredible defensive team and their offense is going to get way better. Imagine all the attention he is going to get playing with Franz Wagner and Paula Bunker. Those guys are going to get space and that is going to help them. They're going to play so many dribble handoffs there at the elbows and and you got to just respect Desmond Bain and his numbers. He's a great on ball creator. He probably did that a little too much. Just like Jalen Suggs did a little too much of that in Orlando. So I could see him attacking tons of close ups because you're going to have to give Bankero and Wagner lots of respect. I think this makes Jalen Suggs way better. All those stats and all that, we can break it down. But he is just an incredible three point shooter. While the Magic just stunk. Last year they were the worst three point shooting team they're the worst in a decade at 31.8%. This guy is far better. I think this team just. It gets better everywhere. It is a. Definitely a worry that you give out. You give away every single one of your picks. In terms of the Orlando Magic, how they get better around those four, plus Wendell Carter Jr. That is a very good question. Because they got none essentially now. So that's the question. But I'm very excited to see them in an Eastern Conference where. Yeah, you never know who could win.

[Jay Skeets]

That because Tatum's injury to the Celtics maybe takes them down a peg. Obviously Damian Lillard's injury with the Bucks. You've got good Pacers teams. You got good Knicks teams. You still have, in theory, a good Cavs team.

[JD]

Yeah, Pacers currently constructed Pacers, Knicks, Magic and a Cavs. That's. That's the scramble right there at the top.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[JD]

I gotta think. I think this will be a really, really good offense. I think they're gonna love having guys that you have to respect. You know, Desmond Bain didn't have enough of that in Memphis. And now these guys playing together and we can, we'll get into that, but I'm excited, period.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. What was your first reaction to this.

[Trey Kirby]

TK a trade during the NBA Finals? Players that we actually know, that was my first reaction. Like they have been trades before. It was like the Thunder or the Nuggets trading a future pick for a late first round pick. Not guys who actually matter to both teams. My second reaction was one of the greatest name for name trades of all time. Desmond Bane for Kentavious, Caldwell Pope. Those are like top five names in the NBA. Switching sides. There's two parts to it for everything, the basketball and the business. I think it's a great fit basketball wise for the Magic. They're getting the three point shooting that they desperately need. They thought KCP was that guy. Clearly he wasn't. I don't necessarily think that one shooter instantly fixes their shooting, but Bane helps. He's also a good secondary playmaker. He's also a good secondary ball handler. He's. He cares on defense. Definitely an upgrade over kcp. I do think Orlando is going to have to get a lot more creative on offense. They still don't really have a point guard playmaker. Suggs isn't that kind of guy who gets in the lane and makes plays for other people. Paulo's a good playmaker. Franz is a good playmaker. Bane's a good playmaker. All these guys are wired to score. However, I don't want to see Bane just standing in the corner like he's kcp. That was one of the problems. They didn't know how to use him. I don't know if Jamal Mosley is the guy to unlock everybody, but he's going to help, at least on the offensive end. The question is the price that they paid. They had to pay a pick to get off the KCP contract. I think that's one of those that's thrown in there. Bane is a guy that does miss time. 13:42, 24 games the last three seasons. This is a Magic team that was completely banged up last year. Missing Paulo for a huge chunk of the season. Franz for a huge chunk of the season. Mo Wagner went out for the season. Suggs went out for the season. So adding another injury guy to injury guys, that's a little bit of a worry. They're losing some depth. I'm not necessarily worried about the picks they're giving up because more than likely Orlando's drafting 18 to 30 in the first round most of the time. Who knows? Injuries could happen. 2030 could end up being a delicious pick for the Grizzlies. I'm more so worried about, like Taz is saying, this is the Magic team now. It's going to be Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Desmond Bain locked in basically until 2029. Paolo's going to get paid next season. That's a very expensive team. In the Second Apron era, it kind of makes more sense to have two really highly paid players, not four. Especially when you trade all of your draft picks, which mean you then can't acquire the guys around those four. That's literally what was happening in Memphis.

[JD]

Yeah, yeah, right. Suggs is descending contract. It gets cheaper and cheaper, but yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

It gets more and more expensive.

[JD]

They are.

[Jay Skeets]

They're going to have two guys on max deals after the 25, 26 season. Then you said Suggs like, yeah, 30 million. But I guess it does decrease. But Baines does make a ton of money between like what, 37 million. And that only goes up, up up to about 45 million over the next four years.

[JD]

Come on TV deal. Keep the salary cap raising for those. Yeah, and. And there's a big drop off after, you know, those four Wendell Carr juniors, probably your center. They have Jonathan Isaac under contract for a good amount of time here as a backup. Other than that. Yeah, they. They won't be able to get them through the draft, which is a pretty thing that here with the Second apron and how restricted it is, you make sense to be Able to draft somebody for cheaper. Especially guys are going to be sticking around in NCAA because of how much they get paid off the court now. So yeah, that, that is the problem. There's no doubt about that. They paid a lot.

[Jay Skeets]

But it's a huge bet obviously on that four that you just said. And then these other pieces and what they have there. We have an identity. We're a defensive minded team and we look at the east landscape and we think there's a path there to be. Like you said Tass, like, man, I think they're laughing or they're loving it if they're top three. It's like people are like, can you get even into that, you know, sort of top four and start winning playoff series? Because you are sort of committing yourself at least for a year or two to this four. And, and maybe they can because you guys went through it. I mean, on paper, this is awesome. They're the worst three point shooting team in the league and they had a guy that shoots 41% for his career from deep on a pretty good amount of shots. Like it's like, you know, on his career it's like six and a half. He had that one year where Jaw was out where he was like shooting like nine threes per game and that was his worst three point shooting percentage of his career and that was still at 38%. So that's a, I mean it makes sense. And then he doesn't like your defense doesn't really fall off because of him. He's pretty good at, you know, point of attack defense. He does bring a little playmaking. Like he's, he's a damn good player. Everyone's like, oh, you trade all this for a non all star? Well, he's an all star. If he's in the Eastern Conference at one point he'll have made a crappy, dumb all star game. Maybe he would. He's in the West. You're not going to make 20 points per game. Yeah, it's good, it's good, it's very good. But they are just, wow, this is a roll of the dice. No doubt. Which is exciting.

[Trey Kirby]

Totally.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

We're gonna see a team push all in. And now it's a huge bet on Paolo getting a lot better. I think he kind of took a step back actually this season. He was awesome to start the year. When he came back a little out of sorts. I think they both had core muscle injuries, right, him and Franz, but the efficiency was a little bit down. And that's why to me it's gotta be some more interesting stuff going on offensively for the Magic. You're mentioning dribble handoffs. They didn't do that at all last season. That was a big part of the offense for Minnesota or for Memphis. They completely switched things up, bringing in all the new assistants. Now eventually that went poorly for the coaching staff, but they were a funky offense. It was kind of like we're moving around a lot and then just one on one, one on one, one on one. The Magic will do something simpler or similar, but I think they, they're just going to have to honestly hire an offensive coordinator because I don't know that Jamal Mosley has big time plans on that end. But they'll still be great defensively. They just need to see Paolo get better at being a playmaker, a more intuitive playmaker. He's still early in his career, so he's kind of making the first reads on stuff. Franz, I think is a little bit better as a pick and roll guy, but if he's running the pick and roll so Bane is just standing over there, then that's just the top four. They're a super top heavy team now. So now you have to hope Anthony Black is good. You have to hope Tristan De Silva is good. Maybe Jet Howard turns into something. I think those are more iffy bets because this could be a team that has four really good players and then five question marks from five to 10.

[JD]

Yeah, I do like how they're betting on these four guys. They're trying to emulate a little bit what the Celtics did. It's a poor man Celtics team. When you were getting into your Tatum and Brown. They're not Tatum and Brown.

[Jay Skeets]

But you're playing Paolo and Franz.

[JD]

Yeah, yeah, sure. And then, you know, Suggs trying to emulate Jrue Holiday and Derrick White and. And now Bane. They're different types of guys, but I do think there will be plenty of catch and shoots opportunities for. For both those guys. Both the Magic guards. Now, Jalen Suggs, he had a terrible season shooting the three ball. With the guys out, he shot 31.4%. But with Banchero in there, those first five games, he was awesome. I mean, they were really good. First five games he was 42% from three. I know you're smiling, Trey, because he didn't shoot.

[Trey Kirby]

That was the DE Anthony Melton era at the NBA.

[JD]

Why? Because I said the Anthony Melton was.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, he was also hooping the first five games of the season.

[JD]

Yeah, but Jalen Suggs had a good year. Last year he did. He was. She almost shot.

[Trey Kirby]

Great season.

[JD]

Yeah. So was that an anomaly where he shot almost 40% from 3? He was also 40.7% from 3 on catch and shoots last year. Like, the guy can play this year he only played 97 minutes with Franz and Bunchero, so the guy was awesome when they play together. So this is just assuming that they play together. In Jalen Suggs, if there's three guys running the offense, he can be the catch and shoot guy. And that's why he kind of emulates Derrick White to me. Just be ready, man. Just be ready to fire. And last year, again, he shoots a lot, and they need him and Bane to shoot a lot. So those four guys rotating it. Yeah, the rest of them is definitely a question. But I got faith in those four.

[Jay Skeets]

Right. I was making some comparisons, talking to the guys in the WhatsApp group and all that. Like, I do think it could go poorly. You hope it's not. If you're a Magic fan, of course, and you're like, yeah, Bane is really good. He made. Maybe even underrated. Yeah, it took a lot of draft capital. But like Trey said, one of those picks was to get off one of the guys we're sending out in kcp. Maybe even Cole Anthony, who I think is under contract for a couple years as well. Anyway, I wonder, though, if this could be similar to the Hawks trading for Dejounte Murray in the summer of 2022. Which did catch us by surprise too, with the amount of picks that went out. That was three first round picks and one pick. Swap this one, obviously, one more. But there's some similarities between maybe those two guys, not how they play, but like the age of Dejounte Murray at the time to Desmond Bain, sort of just hitting their prime. Both good, not great players. You know, dejounte had made one All Star game, Bain zero. Both in the west, though, coming East. Both guys that have had, like, struggles staying healthy. Because dejante missed his rookie season. No, he missed. Yeah, he missed about half his rookie season. Then he missed his entire third season. Bane. Trey, you said it. He's. He like misses like 25% of the games. Like a lot of times here over his five year career. Like, he's. He just has like every injury known to man. Um, like hips and groins and ankles and toes. Like he's done it all. It sort of feels like. And then the other similarity is the Hawks brought dejante Murray in to, like, solve their defense. Like, help with our defense that didn't Work on the flip side.

[Trey Kirby]

Magic.

[Jay Skeets]

No, Bane's coming in, help with our offense. It's the complete reverse.

[JD]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

And it's like, how much can one guy do? So, like, I think. I think it's better, though. Just my final point on that is, like, this fit is better Bain coming into Orlando than Dejounte was ever coming into the Hawks. But again, same idea of, like, look at where we are in the East. We think we're like. Or like a 500 team. We can sort of catapult ourself up. Didn't work for Atlanta. They pivoted out of Dejounte Murray. I think it'll work better with Bain in Orlando, but you could see it going somewhere.

[JD]

The Magic are just way better than the Hawks were.

[Jay Skeets]

Why they weren't, though, when the Hawks made that trade, they were a better team than the Magic were last year. Are you just going to blame it on injuries?

[JD]

The Magic were a 47 win team 10 years ago. Last year, they weren't last with 23, 24. Yeah. Bancaro, 23, 24. They won 47 games.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[JD]

So last year, yeah, Franz was hurt.

[Jay Skeets]

They were a.500 team.

[JD]

They didn't have obliques, man. Franz and Banchero both had oblique injuries. Their top two guys didn't play basketball. Dejounte Murray was brought in to solve everything on this team in Atlanta.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[JD]

That obviously did not work. And I know we look at these draft picks, we say, whoa, that's a lot. You really can't tell until a few years later. I know it's boring to say that, but you really can't tell what they gave up until years later. Like the Rudy Go Bear trade. It was also four monster picks. They just made two conference finals looks a lot better now than it did the day of. And so we could see.

[Jay Skeets]

I'm Team F them picks, but I'm also. With these aprons, you do have to go back to, like, this is four guys you're spending a ton on. And you better be damn well convinced that they're going to be, like, challenging for, you know, an Eastern Conference title or even further, like the Knicks did when they made the crazy Bridges trade, where they at least gave a lot of draft capital. And they're like, that's our guy. That's going to help us get to the next level. No, he did.

[JD]

They got to be good. There's no. There's no doubt. They have to be good. And just to get into the picks. So it's number 16 this year, and then their own picks in 2028 and 2030 when they expect to be good. All these guys sign through, you know, the next three seasons and then five seasons. So where are those picks going to be? You got to assume they're in the 20s, but you know, who knows? Who knows at this point? Then the next year is the juicy one because it could be Orlando's again. It could be any pick in the draft depending on where Orlando is, but it also could be Phoenix's with all these pick swaps. So it could be anywhere from 10 to 25 again. So it's, it's different when you sit back and look at it after the fact. But right now it looks like a lot picks.

[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capital1.com for details. Race the rudders.

[JD]

Race the sails. Raise the sails.

[Trey Kirby]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[JD]

Over. Roger, Wait.

[Jay Skeets]

Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

Appreciate how would you then grade the Orlando side of things? Throw a trade grade on it for the Magic getting Desmond Bain with what they had to give up.

[Trey Kirby]

I think it's probably between a B and a B plus. Okay, so I don't know, like a 87. It's good. It's good. Exactly. Like I like the fit with Bane. I don't think he takes anything away from the Magic. And he's going to add stuff. He's going to add three point shooting when if Suggs picks up an injury for 10 games, he can be the main perimeter ball handler for the Magic. Right. The question to me becomes just how are they going to get better in the future? Because this is their top four. I love their top four. I'm a Wendell Carter Jr fan in general. Probably an area they could upgrade if they ever wanted to, but now it's going to be tough for them to upgrade. And what if their bench guys don't hit at all? Then they're really, really top heavy. And you're looking at the Knicks where you're like wait a second, we got six guys we can play that doesn't work out. How good are they going to be preseason? I thought the Magic were in the same tier as the Cavs and the Pacers. They both just had awesome seasons. I think they'll be good again next year. Like Taz is saying. I think the Knicks will be good again next year, like Tass is saying. But I think Orlando probably slots in competing for number four with a Boston team that's missing Jayson Tatum. But then we'll get him back. Milwaukee, I think is a question mark. Detroit could get better. They've got ways to get better. And they just had a fun playoff run playing against the Knicks in the first round. So I think they're four to six, which is a great spot for the Magic to be if things hit right. Maybe they make a conference finals. I think more than likely they're probably win one playoff round kind of team, which is an improvement but what is the ceiling after that is the question for me. And that all comes down to how good does Paolo get? How good does Franz get?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. And then I would just add to that. I'm with you. Like, obviously, you make this type of move, it's like, we got to win playoff series now and start going further. And if you don't, then they'll have one more move and that will be Jamal Mosley will be out and a new coaching staff will come in and have a go at it. And like, that's exactly what's going to happen if they don't have immediate success and obviously compete at the top of the east and win some playoff rounds. But, okay, you give it a B. B plus. Where are you going? Same thing. Or do you go A? You seem to like it more.

[JD]

I do. I do like it more. I do believe in a young Bunchero, 22 and Franz still super young to go with Desmond Bain. And I do think Jalen Suggs is a far better player than D. Anthony Melton. I think he's got a lot of talent. And so I think their top four is real. Whether it's. It depends on what they do this year. Like, if they can win 55 games, which I think should be their ceiling, and I think that's a possibility, then it's definitely. It's an A minus. It's an A right now. It's a B plus. But I do believe in their defense being great. Desmond Bain is a tough dude. Two years ago, he's in LeBron's face in the playoffs. Like, I don't think he is just going to fade away. I think he's going to be a very good player for this team. And they're going to ask a lot. They're going to ask a lot of him and Suggs to handle the ball. That's what they lacked going into the playoffs. They didn't have any ball handlers. Suggs was out. And so how will they react now to having a great bank hero as your number one guy? Plus Franz growing. I think they should play off each other really well.

[Trey Kirby]

Well, 20, 25, 26 magic. Like the Desmond Bain Magic, will they be better than this year's Grizzlies team? 24, 25 Grizzlies.

[Jay Skeets]

Great question.

[Trey Kirby]

They won 48 games in the Western Conference.

[Jay Skeets]

It's so funny you said that because I wrote in my notes, would the Grizzlies have kept their core together with their three guys? Obviously now breaking it up, moving Bain if they were in the east because everybody talked about like expansion coming and that means some teams are going to be coming to the Eastern Conference. And the Grizzlies, you know, when you look at on the map, hey, they could be one of those teams. Just made me laugh. It's like, yeah, I don't know. Probably not. They probably are like where you are in the Easter Conference, take our chances. Looks a lot juicier than where you are in the West. So. Yeah, who knows? We'll see. Let's hear from you out there. How do you grade it? What are your thoughts? Did the Magic get fleeced? That's a popular reaction to this. With how many picks they sent out, a lot of. Did the Magic make a reach going for Bane with this? Yeah, a lot of B Rex arms jokes being flown around. So anyway, let's hear your thoughts. Let's pivot to the Grizzly side, though. So what do you think of them? And obviously we can get into grading their side of this too.

[JD]

Well, they had to change. They moved on from the the Bain, Sharon Jackson Jr. John Morante. It's been together for a long time. Their defense got weaker this year. They weren't playing their type of ball. They weren't playing hard enough. So 48 wins is obviously it's, it's a good number. But I do think it's smart in that they needed a new direction even if they were in the Eastern Conference, to keep going forward with this same trio you've been going forward for a long time with. I think it makes sense going forward.

[Jay Skeets]

With a long time, but the problem is like they haven't all been healthy at the same time for a good chunk of this, too, over the last couple years. Yeah, right. There are three guys in John Bain and Triple J, but I hear you. They pivoted here. They seem to have a lot more flexibility. Like I know Wind Horse is saying this is a rebuild trade for the Grizzlies, and I'm interested whether you agree with that or not. Or is this sort of like a pivot sort of opening up the books here and what you're going to do with Triple J's extension and all that. But what do you think?

[Trey Kirby]

You think they're pivoting on a pivotal Game five? Maybe it's so, I mean, definitely a downgrade to go from Bain to kcp. I don't even know how Cole Anthony is going to really factor in here. He's a good backup guard. So was Scotty Pippen Jr. I think Cole Anthony could have ended up being traded but you knew changes were coming for Memphis. They had The Jaren Jackson Jr extension question hanging over them and their GM post season was basically like we're not close to winning here in the Western Conference. So they decided we had our fun with the jaw, Jaron Jackson Jr. And Baden team. They won one playoff series. Over the course of those guys being together, there's a lot of circumstances there. But you see what happened in the playoffs. They got smoked in the first round against the Thunder, so they're not even close. I have to agree. I think this is smart though for the Grizzlies to get some more flexibility. We'll see what they end up doing. I think it's more likely that they keep Jaren Jackson Jr. And John Morant and now they have some flexibility around those guys. Not to mention all of these picks which maybe they don't want to keep. And they can package those picks for a player who is an upgrade over now kcp. I guess they could go the blow up everything sort of route but it seems unlikely to me just because they're the only team in their city. When you're the only team in your city, usually you try and be good because then people stay interested. They've also had a ton of success drafting guys in the mid first round. So I think the Grizzlies are probably pretty confident that even if these picks are 18 to 30, like we can find a player. Guess who we found? Desmond Bain. He was the 30th draft pick. So I think this is smart from the Grizzlies to kind of see the writing on the wall like the team we had. It wasn't good enough. We tried firing Taylor Jenkins at the end of the season to give ourselves a little jolt in the arm. That didn't work out. Things had to change. It's the second apron era. Teams are going to get more and more bold saying goodbye to max players who aren't all stars and all NBA guys, which obviously Desmond Bain isn't in the Western Conference. Maybe he gets in screaming distance in the Eastern Conference. But basically between Jaren Jackson Jr. And Ja taking a step back, they've got two contracts on guys who are well paid and Jaw isn't looking like the best deal. So getting more flexibility I think is pretty smart for Memphis.

[Jay Skeets]

You agree with that?

[JD]

Oh yeah, yeah. I think I said that they are more flexible. They've got picks and so they've got two guys as their number one and number two. But they needed a change up so they need another wing. That's for sure. Jalen Wells probably go to your shooting guard spot and they need a center play with Jaren Jackson Jr. Really?

[Trey Kirby]

Zach Edie injury out for the season.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. If everybody was healthy, you're looking at John Morant, KCP, Jalen Wells obviously Jaren Jackson Jr. Zach Edie if he was there. And then you said Pippin Cole, Anthony, Gigi Jackson still there.

[Trey Kirby]

They got to re sign Aldama.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes. Kon Char is there. I think he'll be moved. Actually. Clark may be coming back. Huff and then maybe a country singer named Vince Williams Jr. I think is on the roster. But yeah, this is definitely this idea of like we either use all this draft capital to try and get more high end talent or if ultimately this doesn't work, we can pivot and you know you would move one of the other big pieces. But I'm with you, TK I think this like, this to me is like, oh, they're not one of those two guys are not going anywhere. Now it's Jaw and Triple J and we'll build around them. New coaching staff and maybe they want, they want to implement a whole new style. Even they've talked about like we want to be running gun more with John Morant stuff. So that is it. I think Hollinger said Memphis has maximized its available assets. The Grizzlies have 10 firsts and three swaps now in their war chest. So again, you can use that to retool potentially around John morant and Jackson Jr. So how are you grading this one then from the Grizzly side?

[Trey Kirby]

This one's an A minus for me. I think what Memphis is doing is smart. They're going into a second ERA team build basically saying we can't have three max guys. We can have two max guys and a whole bunch of players who are making middle contracts that are tradable and they have picks they can attach to it if they want to do it. I kind of think, well, I thought the Grizzlies were a little undervalued coming into this season just because I was a Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson believer. Also a Desmond Bain believer at the time. Ja took a step back. So obviously if he's going to be playing like he did last season, the Grizzlies are in trouble regardless. I think he'll stick around there. I think he can be better, but they absolutely need him to be better. And maybe playing underneath Thomas Isolo is the answer. Right? Like, clearly there was problems with Taylor Jenkins towards the end of the season. Apparently Isolo just wants to be pick and roll playing with John Morant. That's where John Moran at his best for sure. Jaren Jackson Jr. Took a step forward, but I think this is ultimately a win win trade. Like it's funny because they're making opposite bets. Hollinger really nailed it at the Athletic. The Grizzlies are saying we need to get more flexible and the Magic are saying we need to get more talent, which makes them less flexible. The Magic needed more talent. They needed shooting. That's why they got Bane. The Grizzlies needed more flexibility and their team wasn't good enough. So they're taking a little bit of a step back, which is why I think like this is a win win trade. Both sides are getting exactly what they want.

[JD]

I totally agree. The flexibility is the important part here for the Grizzlies. I don't think you could just keep on going with the same thing over and over and over again. And now they have so many picks and so much space because contracts are a lot of them are expiring after this year. You obviously have to sign Jaren Jackson Jr. That is inevitable, right? They're going to sign him for a monster to go, but they got help.

[Jay Skeets]

Out with that too, right? Him not making all NBA savings, at.

[JD]

Least save some money going from 35% of the cap potentially to 30% of the cap. So yep, every percentage saving some bucks.

[Jay Skeets]

This is going to be fascinating to see if or how this sets the tone for the trade market here for the rest of the summer. Again, a lot of comparisons obviously to the Mikhail Bridges haul that the Knicks did with the Nets and all those draft picks and maybe even you go back to the Rudy Gobert one. But do you have any take on what this does now for these potential other trades? We see obviously Kevin Durant, the biggest name that I know we'll get to in a second here.

[Trey Kirby]

My first thought was that it's going to be a lot harder to get these All Stars if you're trying to trade for a Kevin Durant, but I actually don't think that's true now that I've thought on it more. A, I don't think Giannis is going to get traded, so the biggest name is off the board. B, Kevin Durant is 37 years old with a contract waiting after next season. They got to sign him to an extension. It's not the same as getting Desmond Bain at 27 with four years under the contract, not to mention a team like the Magic probably have to overpay a little for the KCP fact and also for the trying to get guys in. They maybe are not the biggest free agency destination, though. They were the biggest free agency destination circa 2000 when they were trying to get Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan. Almost made it happen. Only got one of them.

[Jay Skeets]

But.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know, I just. It's going to be different scenarios, you know, like Rudy Gobert got traded for five first round picks. That didn't happen again until Mikhail Bridges. Mikhail Bridges did. It didn't happen again until Desmond Bain just got traded here. So I think they're going to be different scenarios. It's just going to cost whatever it costs for Kevin Durant. Not five, I don't think.

[Jay Skeets]

Right, Go ahead.

[JD]

Yeah, well, I don't think Orlando really is that free agency destination like it was in 2000. Like you said, Tracy McGrady leaving Toronto. Toronto's not seen that same way anymore. Tracy just didn't want to be there. It's unfortunate. Now people want to go there. The thing with Orlando. Yeah, I wonder. We'll see. I feel like they made a good maneuver here to go for it and to try it out while here with Memphis. Yeah, it's a real. We can trade for whatever now. I mean, we have so many picks, so it's a good move on their end. They're the flexible ones, so they're waiting for a potential superstar to be available.

[Jay Skeets]

My only other note with the Magic, because we had talked about them a lot as a team that's gotta make a move because they need a guard and they need some scoring and maybe even a point guard, which they didn't, they didn't really get. Obviously Bain sort of is a point guard, shooting guard, but he's more of a shooting guard, I think. But we talked about the Blazers with Anthony Simons, right. That was a popular name. Kobe White with your Chicago Bulls came up a lot. Now both those guys, you know, they're not as good at players as Desmond Bain, but they wouldn't cost as much to in theory, I think get them if you could. And then, then there was then the one level that maybe is right around Bain, probably even higher. More of a point guard in the Cavs with Darius Garland, but feels like they were like, we're not doing that. Has the injury as well. I don't know if that came into play, but those were like three guys that sort of came to mind right away. I was like, well, they're not going to Orlando now. Wonder if they stay put or if they go somewhere else. I don't know if I'm missing any other potential trades we talked about at the time.

[Trey Kirby]

Trey Young.

[Jay Skeets]

Trey Young, yep. True. From the Hawks to the Magic.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean could, could they have gotten Drew Holiday, you know, for a little bit less? Probably. Derek White probably would cast cost at least the same as yeah and I don't really know if the the Celtics would want to be trading with the Magic since they're theoretically going to be competing with each other. But that is one of the questions for Orlando is the opportunity cost of it because now they can't make a move if anybody else comes available. Right. Like they couldn't do their version of the Pascal Siakam trade where they're like oh that guy is perfect for our team. Let's kick in some late first round picks and now we got him sign him to an extension going forward. That's their choice is Bane is their choice over everybody else in the league and we'll see how it plays out.

[Jay Skeets]

For all right, let's pivot to some other news here. Sort of related maybe in some way to Bane being dealt to the Orlando Magic. According to Shams over the weekend, the Heat, spurs and Rockets are Kevin Durant's preferred trade destinations. People across the NBA have been made aware in recent days that those are the three teams KD would commit to with a long term extension. Now we talked at the end of last week Tassa a lot about hypothetical KD trades and those three teams that we just said they were involved in the list that was five. But KD's camp making it sound like we want one of these three now. Not that the Suns have to play nice. They don't have to. But then again, I don't know why a trade a team would want to trade for an an unhappy Kevin Durant who doesn't want to sign their long term. So it gets a little complicated here, but what do you think?

[JD]

Well, you know, I was going through all the teams this past weekend and wondering if the Rockets want to give up their young core or part of their young core for Kevin Durant who is turning 37. So I'm more inclined to say no, they don't. I don't know about this Timberwolves trademark considering, you know, they're on the second apron. So they can't combine salaries. Aggregate salaries, as everyone is saying in the NBA media world makes it difficult. And I know him and Anthony Edwards get along and they're they're buds and Anthony Edwards loved watching Kevin Durant growing up. I don't know if they want to make that change. I will say the Miami Heat definitely makes a lot of sense. I could see them wanting Kevin Durant to be their number one offensive player. Really him and Hero and Bam Adebayo. He loves the warm weather. It's a really good defense. And so he would improve their offense. He is to be their number one offensive player. And just going through the Rockets and going through the Timberwolves. What are teams willing to give up? Well, the Miami Heat may be the best package, really is what it comes down to is what our team's willing to give up and the Miami Heat maybe giving it up, even though the names won't be spectacular. It'll be Wiggins, Jovich and, you know, a Duncan Robinson or whoever. But that's what it all comes down to is do the Rockets want to give up their young players? Do the Timberwolves just want to tear it down again back to back seasons after making two conference finals and here the Miami Heat. So it kind of makes more sense to me that the Heat would give it a shot.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, the guys at the Athletic wrote league sources say Durant prefers to play for the spurs of the Rockets. But there are complicating factors with both of those negotiations that make the deal look unlikely. And then in that same article, they did sort of revisit what was rumored. What back around the trade deadline, the idea of Katie going to the Wolves. And they sort of like rehashed that. How it is tough and, and whether, you know, this part is weird, like it sounds like to me, Katie's camp has told Choms, these are the teams and I didn't say Minnesota when I said that. So it feels like I don't want to go up there. But again, Phoenix does not have to play nice with this. They can trade him anywhere. It's not like he's Bradley Beal with the no trade clause, so.

[Trey Kirby]

Exactly.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. What do you think, TK that was.

[Trey Kirby]

One of my first takeaways is Kevin Durant doesn't want to pay taxes or live where it's cold. So maybe bad news for Toronto, yes, but this is Katie exerting what little leverage he has. He, like, everybody knows he's going to be traded between now and the draft. Basically, like you're saying, no, no trade clause. He has no say so where he goes. So it's on Kevin Durant to basically talk to these teams, the Heat, the Spurs and the Rockets say, make your best pitch because I will come to Your team, he's saying, putting Khalil where to the Heat. He's saying, don't be stingy with your picks or your young players to the spurs and the Rockets, because I will actually resign with your team rather than a team like the Timberwolves or another mystery team. Like maybe the Clippers, though they are a warm weather team, so perhaps they have a better chance of keeping him around. This is all he can do, really, to influence at all where he's going to go. But it's on the Suns to get the best deal they possibly can. And if that ends up being the Heat, the Spurs of the Rockets, great. We'll see what they end up valuing the most. If it's players, maybe it's the Heat. I don't. Maybe Khalil where is like the best player they could get? I don't know. But if it's the spurs and the Rockets, that's more like rebuild mode. Right? And that's not necessarily what Matt Ishbia wants to do. But Kevin Durant's telling these three teams, I will make it worth your while if you trade for me.

[Jay Skeets]

Right.

[Trey Kirby]

Does it play out that way? I don't know. But at least he's saying I'll be around.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I mean, I saw Ziller share a bunch of other wildcard teams because, you know, a team can come out of nowhere in these weird things and suddenly they're making a deal for him. He was wondering teams that are desperate. So Ziller said, Kings, they could be desperate.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes.

[Jay Skeets]

Philadelphia might be desperate. Okay, Denver could be desperate. The Clippers, he listed them as a team that maybe is desperate. And then he said the Lakers are probably not desperate, but it sure would be interesting if they convinced themselves they were. So that made me laugh. Ziller's newsletter there. But this feels like it is going to happen. Like, be honest with me, when you saw the trade happens over the weekend on Sunday, did you think it was Kevin Durant got dealt? Like, I mean, that was my immediate reaction until you're like Desmond Bain, what is. Is Durant going to the Grizzlies? Oh, no. Doesn't mean it's going to the Magic, but I mean, it just feels like it could happen at any minute here.

[JD]

Yeah, it feels like first time in a while where we're waiting for a trade to happen and it's going to happen. But I don't know, nothing really jumps out to me as a trade of a huge player that was destined to be traded over the next couple weeks. And it's sure feels like it's gonna happen.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean, Anthony Davis, that one, we.

[Trey Kirby]

Were pretty sure he was hardened, but.

[JD]

He or Anthony Davis wore that's all folks for a while, you know, like that.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, you're right.

[Trey Kirby]

And he didn't get traded at the deadline. It was during the summer. Harden's a good one, though. I mean, he quit playing for the Rockets and got traded.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Also Harden getting traded to the Sixers. Also hard in getting traded to the Clippers. It's always the writing on the wall. He is very out.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

You know when he is going to get traded? This is. Everybody's known this is going to happen. I think this is going to happen. Draft day.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

So we got. We got another week of rumors.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. Yeah, some of the. Some of the, you know, plugged in. People are saying it's happening sooner rather than later and that's how long we got till then. What's that? 25th, 26th.

[Trey Kirby]

The draft is next Wednesday.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. It's next. What? No, it's Thursday.

[Trey Kirby]

Wednesday and Thursday.

[JD]

It's Wednesday. Thursday.

[Jay Skeets]

Fun. Now, middle of the week. Okay.

[JD]

Well, yeah, it was last year. Remember they televised.

[Trey Kirby]

Day two, Second round televised second round is pretty hilarious.

[Jay Skeets]

That's so silly.

[JD]

Yeah. Is that going to happen again?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[JD]

They're going to televise it.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes.

[JD]

Yeah, it was on espn.

[Jay Skeets]

It's definitely going to be on tv.

[JD]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Will you be watching? Probably not, but they'll be doing day two. Well, do you think it's going to happen on draft day like him?

[JD]

Sure, I'll accept you.

[Jay Skeets]

I think it's. No, I think it's going to happen before.

[JD]

Before. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Just because if there's going to, in theory, be picks included and those teams are going to maybe want those picks in advance to know where they're going. Or the Suns, I guess, in this instance, would want those picks in advance.

[JD]

I want.

[Jay Skeets]

But not that that couldn't happen on draft night. And you've seen a lot of times, hey, you draft for us too.

[JD]

I want Adam Silver announcing it. I want him coming up to the podium. Announcement.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Imagine he drops the Southern lawyer on. That'd be amazing.

[Trey Kirby]

He's east coast lawyer, isn't he?

[Jay Skeets]

An actual lawyer.

[Trey Kirby]

Hey, we got a trade.

[Jay Skeets]

Forget about it. Forget about the fourth pick of the draft. We got a trade.

[Trey Kirby]

He should not allow a Kevin Durant trade to go down during the finals. Kevin Durant is too big of a name to be traded during the Finals.

[Jay Skeets]

Desmond Bain was okay to.

[Trey Kirby]

You 100%. Yes. If you say Desmond Bain and Kentavius Caldwell Pope were traded and you're out at a pool, people are going to say, who?

[Jay Skeets]

If you say Kevin Durant's traded, people.

[Trey Kirby]

Go, whoa, Kevin Durant.

[Jay Skeets]

The finals on?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. No, the finals aren't on. We didn't play on Father's Day for some reason.

[Jay Skeets]

Hey, game five tonight should have played last. Ready to order? Yes.

[Tas Melis]

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver Card. So let's just get one of everything.

[Jay Skeets]

Everything.

[JD]

Fire everything.

[Trey Kirby]

The capital one sard is at table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes, Chef. This is so nice.

[Trey Kirby]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, tiramisu.

[Trey Kirby]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One. What's in your wallet?

[Jay Skeets]

Term supply. See capital1.com for details. Race the rudders. Race the sails.

[JD]

Race the sails.

[Trey Kirby]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[JD]

Over. Roger, Wait.

[Jay Skeets]

Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax. Let's stick with the Rockets here. Some other news. Stephen Adams will be returning to the Rockets for next season and beyond as the Vet center agreed to a new three year, $39 million contract extension over the weekend. That'll keep him there in Houston and takes him off the free agent market. So it's a name that had come up when we were talking about top centers on the free agency market. You know who, like, obviously the Lakers have wanted a center, a couple other teams. We talked about the Grizzlies maybe needing a center with the Ed injury. Stephen Adams staying in Houston, you're going.

[JD]

To add a good price, you know, 13 for 39. Not a huge pay raise. Actually thinking about it, looking at his numbers, which were 12.6 this season, and I'm surprised at how young Steven Adams is.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I Was waiting for that.

[JD]

Right. Because it feels like we've been talking about him for a long time because he came out of the draft and was pivotal for OKC immediately, basically in 2013. He's only 32 coming up this year, so it's a good sign. For three years. It feels like it. Even though he missed a year because of injury, it feels like he'll be.

[Jay Skeets]

He'll be pretty tough. This feels like his last deal, like, in our heads, like he's like 37, 38. I'm with. That's. It feels like that to me. Like, oh, man. Good for him. Got his final payday here. But he's only 32. Yeah, he's still pretty good when he plays.

[Trey Kirby]

He played with Derek Fisher and Kendrick Perkins on the Thunder. That's how old this guy is, but also young. He makes. He makes us very old. I thought Stephen Adams was just a veteran leadership guy for the Rockets. Coming off an injury, he didn't play very much to start the season at all, like 10 minutes per game. And then due to other injuries for the Rockets, people picking up various maladies, he kind of became important to them during the regular season. Then he was awesome in the playoffs against the Golden State Warriors, 23 offensive rebounds in seven games. He had 17 points, five boards in that big Game 6 win against the warriors. He still got it a little bit. Like he's going to be able to offensive rebound, you know about that for that's guaranteed. You know, he's going to be able to set screens. He's not going to get smaller as he gets older. And, you know, maybe he's not doing much by the time he's 35 years old at the end of this contract. But they'll value having him around as a good guy who makes everybody laugh and who understands the professional aspects of the game. So cool for Steven Adams.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, and you're right about, like, the Rockets were just better when he was on the floor. Started when he was in the regular season. We started to get more time and then obviously it like translated in the playoffs against the warriors, he was a plus 44 with the big Kiwi on the court there, and they were like a minus 44 when he wasn't out there. So, like, he's still good, he's still a positive player. And yeah, this is not a crazy contract. The three years, basically 40 million. So they make quick work on this deal and now they have until June 29th to make a decision on Fred Van vliet and his $44.9 million team option. There's a mutual interest for a reunion between these, you know, the player and the team. Sounds like Van Vliet's going to stay there, just wait to see what it'll be for. But they have until a little bit to make that decision. Some other news. The Knicks still looking for a coach. They are planning to meet with former Kings coach Mike Brown and former Grizzlies coach Taylor Jenkins this week for their head coaching job. As of now, they are considered those two, the leading candidates to replace Tom Thibodeau, who the Knicks fired on June 3, shortly after that first east finals appearance in 25 years. And then they called every single employed coach and asked if they would be interested in coming to New York. Now, apparently the Mavericks, Jason Kidd and the Chicago Bulls Billy Donovan are two currently employed coaches that New York might circle back to in the coming weeks is what I saw James Edwards III write.

[Trey Kirby]

Billy Donovan getting an extension, though.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes. This is the new breaking news. So he's earned it. He's earned it.

[Trey Kirby]

He's earned it.

[Jay Skeets]

Unbelievable. Yeah. What nude photos does he have of that front office or ownership? But anyway, Taylor Jenkins, Mike Brown, your reaction to them being the front runners here?

[Trey Kirby]

Look, the Knicks are casting a wide net and they just went to a bunch of places where it said no fishing first. So this is fine. I mean, they're going after guys who everybody assumed they would be talking to, kind of. Except for Michael Malone. I think is kind of interesting that maybe he's not in the mix here, but definitely a Tom Thibodeau analog. I would say there are pros to both. Mike Brown has been a successful defensive coach when he was coaching LeBron James with the Cleveland Cavaliers. He was a successful offensive coach. When he was coaching the Kings, though they never did anything besides win three first round playoff games. He's more experienced as a coach. One titles with the warriors, so he's got some credit. I believe. Taylor Jenkins, kind of the same. He's really good at experimenting with lineups. We know how many injuries the Grizzlies had over the past few seasons. They never took a step back when those guys went down, except for the year that everybody went down. The development of young players, I think is something that Taylor Jenkins brings to the table as well. Desmond Bain got great, and that's not including guys like Aldama Konjar, Scottie Pippen Jr. Like, who became real NBA players after kind of becoming scrap heap fines. I think that's something that the Knicks were missing out on. So you can see the two reasons that the Knicks would be interested in both of these guys. They're like, we got a veteran who's good and can maybe juice up our offense. He's well respected. And Mike Brown. And we've got maybe a more experimental guy in Taylor Jenkins who's able to do the things that Tibbs didn't in missing mixing with your lineups and getting the best out of your young players. So surely they'll end up hiring Rick Brunson. But it's nice. I'm kidding. They're doing all right. They're just, just. They're the only team with an. With an opening right now, so they can talk to whoever they want to.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

The only one looking for a coach.

[JD]

That's a good point. And maybe that's why we're hearing about every single one also, because it is New York and everybody wants to write about every single one. Because have we heard this many coaches being interviewed by or pursued.

[Jay Skeets]

They were denied interview requests.

[JD]

Yeah. But the Jason kidding situation, that's not dead yet, in my opinion. I think J Kid has, you know, had a bit of a tough time this season, and he could want out.

[Jay Skeets]

And he could be using this as leverage for his next contract extension, too.

[JD]

Sure.

[Jay Skeets]

What some people think.

[JD]

Sure. And he will probably enjoy the Knicks experience even more, even though it is New York, because it's been. It's been a tough one for Jason Kid, so that one's not dead.

[Jay Skeets]

The Mike Brown, like, name obviously being included here makes sense. I. I almost. I could see it working. I think he'd be fun with New York media for sure. Because I think you have to remember, with whoever does take this head coaching job, you're basically the voice piece for that franchise, because Leon Rose doesn't talk to anyone. Like, he never does an interview, never does a press conference. So, like, it's. Everything's going to be going through you. Mike Brown seems to have a pretty, you know, fun attitude with the media or, like, good relationships. He is funny. I'm not saying that's why you're picking him, but he's good coach.

[Trey Kirby]

He's got the best jokes. That would be high on the list of qualifications.

[Jay Skeets]

The moonlight around I just, like. I'm reminded of, like, yeah, Leon Rose never talks here, so.

[Trey Kirby]

Still hasn't talked after firing Tibs? No.

[Jay Skeets]

No. I guess he's like, wow, Anything I say is just going to be, like, flipped around and pulled apart. So just don't say anything. It's a little odd, though. All Right. So we'll keep our eye on that. All right, let's get to game five of the NBA Finals. That is tonight. Pivotal game. We're back in okc. Instead of, like, going through things to watch for and X factors, like, we've done this and just like, drove it into the ground at this point, I thought it'd be fun to ask you guys, what's one stat so far through four games that you think best explains the NBA Finals and where we're at or maybe where we're going here in this best of three now, finals. TK you want to get us started?

[Trey Kirby]

20 to 19. Okay, you know what it is? No clutch points scored this series. Indiana is up one. Literally. Tyrese Halliburton's jumper in game one is the difference. In this series, it would be three. One. Thunder had Tyrese not. Not that. Not knocked that one down. Indiana is six or 15 from the field. During clutch games here. Oklahoma City five for 13. And that's why Indiana is up two to one in these clutch games. You dig a little deeper. Four to one. Offensive rebounding advantage for the Pacers in the clutch. Those are the two that Pascal Siakam grabbed in Game 1 when the Thunder went small. That's how close this series has been between these two awesome teams. This is why we've had such a great series thus far. 2, 2. Outside of game 2, every game has felt like it could go either way. The Pacers outplayed the Thunder in the clutch during the first two or during games one and three in this series. And then Shake El Justice Alexander took over 15 in the fourth in game four. Couple that with the Thunder defense and they were able to pull one out. If it gets down to the clutch again, Shea's gonna have to be just as good as he was in game four because his game one and three performance left a little bit to be desired. Meanwhile, the Pacers feel so comfortable in these clutch games up until game four. Like, they feel no pressure. I'm sure when they're down at any point, when it gets to be clutch time, five points, five or five minutes or less, they feel no fear. Because they've been playing in those situations all season. Or I mean, all season long, if we're being honest. At least since the start of January 1st, we got the Halliburton four point game winner. We got Obi Toppin going nuts. They've done it all year, and they've been one point better than the Thunder in the clutch so far. And that's why they have a chance to still win this series. They got to win one more game in Oklahoma City to pull it off.

[Jay Skeets]

Basically It's a good one, 20 to 19. What is stat you going with?

[JD]

Well, the pacers have made 14 more threes than the Thunder and it kind of reminds me of the 2023 NBA Finals win. The Heat made 15 more threes than the Nuggets and still lost and then returned to last year when the Celtics were splashing threes on the Mavs and won that series. But this feels like the Thunder could be that Nuggets team that doesn't need to hit threes all the time but still come out victorious. As you said that yeah, Indiana's got to win one in okc. I got this stat from Law Murray as well. For the 24th time here in NBA history we have a 22 NBA finals after both teams won and lost a game on each team's floor in 17 of the 23 previous series, the winner of game five went on to win the championship.

[Jay Skeets]

Sounds like it's pivotal.

[JD]

No, highly pivotal. Yeah. 17 of the 23. So yeah, this is big.

[Jay Skeets]

My number I'm going to go with is 35 because that's how many free throw attempts Jalen Williams has had here in this series. And OKC has shot more free throws in total than Indiana. 125 to 102. So that's a 23, you know, difference there between the two teams at the free throw line. Which again was something we came in and thought maybe the Pacers will actually win that because that's something. Ok. See they don't through the regular season like they were low in those and that's they gave up a lot of free throws and they don't get there all that much outside of their main guy SGA, 36 free throws but that's right in line with his averages. But what Jalen Williams is doing that's impressive to me and really keeping a minute in game four we talked about that. Head down, go at the rim, 11 for 11 at the line task I think you said it was probably from Law Murray who pointed out like this guy has never attempted Jalen Williams double digits free throw attempts in back to back games. He didn't do it in college, didn't do it in the in his pro career until games three and four of the finals. So yeah I just think like he, Jalen Williams has taken on more of a starter play starter role as the finals has gone on here and SGA has gone the opposite way like and it's obviously worked out, especially having a little left in the tank for game four. So I think that's going to continue here. And it's like they only have one niecemith and yeah, they're fine with Nemhard on sga, but like Neesmith we've talked about and get in foul trouble and especially when you put the pressure on him. So I'm just watching that in game five. That was one of my weird prop bets too. He is yet to hit the the over Jalen Williams. What was it? Wasn't it 30? I think it was 29 and a half. He had to hit 30 points in one of these games, which I thought he would. Maybe it's tonight or maybe it's one of these final three games, but he's been just like really good. Slowly, like getting going as the series went on.

[JD]

Everybody loves talking about Shea the free throw merchant, but Jalen Williams and Shea basically have the same free throw as attempted this series 36. Shay leads and Jalen was right behind him at 35. Yeah, he's been great.

[Jay Skeets]

All right. So game five tonight, OKC you think? Takes us at home just praying for another close one.

[Trey Kirby]

That's all I care about.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I know. We just don't want that blowout.

[Trey Kirby]

Exactly.

[Jay Skeets]

That everyone's terrified is at one point coming. Just care for a close game. We're gonna be back here tomorrow to talk about Game 5 of the NBA Finals. Appreciate you joining us. Hit the like button. Subscribe five star ratings and reviews until tomorrow at 10am Eastern. Club of bros, you heard it here first.

[Trey Kirby]

Have a great time.

[Jay Skeets]

Turn up. Love you guys.

[Trey Kirby]

Awesome.

[JD]

Thanks for joining us. And remember, how'd you guys enjoy your happy Father's Day?

[Trey Kirby]

It was happy.

[JD]

It was happy.

[Jay Skeets]

Did you do anything special or, or, you know, get anything done for you? Any gifts or. Cool.

[JD]

Washed, dried and folded three loads of laundry last night yesterday. Name another dad who did that.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow.

[JD]

Wow. Three loads. Real, real size loads. Too big.

[Trey Kirby]

Real size loads.

[JD]

Yeah. Yeah. Not these petty ones.

[Jay Skeets]

Did you get up to anything?

[Trey Kirby]

I went to a super mercado and bought some delicious Mexican foods and then prepared them for my family.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, look at all these guys doing.

[Trey Kirby]

That was awesome.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, There you go. J.D. what about yourself? I mean, you were just dealing with this board over here?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, yeah.

[JD]

Just working.

[Jay Skeets]

Doing dad stuff. Doing dad stuff. You're the dad of this podcast. Podcast. So we will see you guys tomorrow. Brace the day now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind for all our customers. Existing and new. We're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and my home. That's future you peace of mind and everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan. When you trade in any phone from one of our top brands, that's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us, we got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capital1.com for details.

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