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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to a new era of no dunks. We're in a new studio. It's our 20 year anniversary in a few months. One of our guys is in Canada right now. Listen, it's a work in progress. This is going to work over the next few weeks. We'll be going when the NBA season starts. I'm Tas Melas. With me, it's the man in the middle, Trey Kirby.
- [00:29]
B
Hey, yo. Hey, hey, yo.
- [00:33]
A
And the man making the magic happen, as always. He made this studio happen. Did I? Yeah, yeah, you did. Super producer jd. Hello. Hey, jd and that man in Canada, as I said, it's got some immigration issues. We're working through. We're working through. As I said, you know, it is a work in progress. There he is, as happy as ever. Jay. Skeets.
- [00:56]
C
It's actually not an immigration issue anymore. Now it's a mailing issue. What's going on? Their truck broke down. We're waiting on documents, but hopefully I'll be back later this week, but. Hello, gentlemen. The studio looks very different. You got like a debate show going on. You guys are so far apart.
- [01:16]
B
Yeah. I feel like we need to bring 20 people in to argue with either your points or my points and you got to just shut them down. Going head to head here, but it feels nice.
- [01:25]
A
Yeah.
- [01:25]
B
We're only missing one thing, you know.
- [01:27]
C
Skeets, man, can I. Jamie's on the opposite side of the garage now too. Right of the factory.
- [01:34]
A
That's correct.
- [01:35]
B
Kitty corner mode.
- [01:36]
C
Yeah. It's weird watching you guys look to the opposite side now.
- [01:40]
A
It's very high.
- [01:44]
B
Lines are going to be crazy.
- [01:45]
A
We got a pip.
- [01:47]
C
It's going to take a while getting used to, but I'm loving the new look overall, the new rebrand, and definitely excited to finally talk hoops with you guys. I've been listening to all your shows and I'm ready to actually share some opinions.
- [01:58]
A
Yeah. And hopefully we'll have everything together by the beginning of the season because things are going to be working in here. Yes. We're sitting across from each other now. That'll change with. With a third person here. It'll be different. How much are we changing the background? We'll find out.
- [02:14]
C
Hopefully.
- [02:15]
B
Hopefully we make some significant changes here. I know people are asking about the sign. It's still here in the factory at some point somewhere, but we're probably gonna upgrade the sign as well.
- [02:25]
A
And look, it's the preseason needs to be upgraded. Yeah, it's the preseason.
- [02:29]
B
The preseason. We're going to be Upgrading. We'll be making more announcements as time comes by. Sooner or later, pure or later, we're actually going to be reunited to touch hands and make takes.
- [02:43]
A
Yes. Hey, listen, I've been waiting for my daughter's passport. Very, very different problem. Also some FedEx truck issues as well, Skeets, if that makes you feel better. It does not, I'm sure.
- [02:55]
C
I don't believe that Purolator's truck broke down on a Friday night one hour before. Let me just say that for the record, that's what you say when you realize the package is not going to be delivered by the end of the day. How am I to know if their truck is actually working? But anyway, I'm a little frustrated. I've been here way too long. At least the Blue Jays are kicking ass. I got that going for me here in Toronto. But, yeah, I want to get back there. And I also know what people are thinking. Didn't you have all summer to redo the factory? Oh, yeah. We waited until the final weekend to do it. So that's why it's the work in progress.
- [03:32]
A
Yeah. And I think because we have two weeks before the start of the NBA season, people will think it gets better and better. You know, we didn't want to come out with the bang. The finished deal, you know, the finished product. We wanted to make sure everybody saw it.
- [03:47]
B
Doesn't Bill Simmons call it the Milton Berl where you show just enough to make people impressed?
- [03:53]
A
Sure. I didn't know, but okay.
- [03:56]
B
Yeah, he does. But I won't go further into that.
- [03:59]
A
All right.
- [04:00]
B
But hopefully we can burl this thing out as time goes on.
- [04:03]
A
Let's go get into the Eastern Conference. Over, under. Total predictions because it's fun. All of these are provided by FanDuel. I want to start with the first one because I think this one is really interesting. We'll get to all 15 teams, but the Boston Celtics over, under number is 41 and a half. This team that won 61 games last year. So start us off, Trey. Do you think this team is basically a little bit better than.500 this coming season or not?
- [04:31]
B
I think this is one of the hardest teams to tell. Where are the Celtics going to be? Because their win total is going down by 20 wins. 61 and 21 for Boston last year. We're looking at can they get to 42 wins, but they lost basically everybody on their team of any sort of size. Jason Tatum won't be playing this year unless he hops in at the end of the season for a Handful of games for a playoff push perhaps. But Kristaps Porzingis, gone. Al Horford, gone. Drew Holiday, he's in Portland right now. We're talking about some of the best defenders on the Celtics and then most of their big man rotation. I don't even think it's a guarantee that the starters they have opening night will be the starters they have the first week of December. Like Jaylen Brown, you're starting, Derrick White, you're starting everything else basically up to grab, up for grabs to me. Simons Pritchard, who's going to be the center. Namish Keita right now. I do think though that this is going to be one of the biggest curveball teams in the NBA. We know the Celtics like to shoot threes. They were first in three point rate last year. That probably bumps up even more so this year with a team that has very few creators on it. But they do have a lot of guys who like to shoot threes. Celtics were 30th in pace last year. I think that goes up this year as they try to play a little bit faster. But the question is like what does a Joe Missoula team look like when they're not one of the best teams in the league? I think it's a chip on the shoulder season for him. I think he's going to be locked in in as many wins as possible during the regular season. But yeah, Celtics are a weird team to consider this year because they have had so much continu the past five seasons. This is the first year that feels really confusing.
- [06:07]
C
Yeah, I would agree with that. Just to piggyback off what Trey's saying. And Trey did really well by the way, in our over under predictions last year you had like an incredible overall record. But like I don't know about you, TK and task. This is like the most difficult year I can remember. Like with a lot of these teams and a lot of these lines and I think the Celtics starting with them, the injury part, it's like what are they like? We know they're a good team, but to lose three of their five starters right from 24, 25, like not on the floor. That's. That's all a hell of a drop off in talent. So Ken White and Jalen Brown and Pritchard, like they played well when Tatum wasn't out there with them. But it's a small sample size. And then yeah, the questions of the front court, I am. This is the one I keep going back and forth on whether they're a Plus500 team or whether they may be like, it's a bit of a down year and like they're sort of scraping to get into a play in. I struggled with this team and a lot of these teams in the, the.
- [07:00]
A
Line makers know what's going on, that is for sure. They're hitting home runs. This 41.5, though, is such a huge drop off from last year. Obviously those guys that you mentioned, Trey, I mean, you basically lost a huge chunk of this championship team. To me, it comes down to, is Joe Missoula a good coach? Can you get enough energy out of these other guys? And I will say it's all talk during this time here, but, but some good, really good stuff coming from some veteran coaches like Sam Cassell, his assistant coach said, this is my 34th training camp and this is the hardest training camp I've seen right now. I don't think he just says that. He said we're going to play hard, we're going to compete, we're going to be the hardest playing team in basketball.
- [07:44]
B
I thought that was the Miami Heat.
- [07:46]
A
What? Yeah. Well, then you get a player jumping in. Josh Minot, new player, on working with Joe Missoula. He's inspiring and a little bit of a weirdo, so. I do, I do.
- [07:56]
C
It's an understatement.
- [07:57]
A
I do think the guys that you mentioned in Derrick White and Jalen Brown and Peyton Pritchard are the primary guys leading this team. Yes, they're going to probably shoot more threes than they ever have because they, they obviously shoot a ton under Missoula in the three years that he's coached, they've shot 48%, 47% and 53% of their shots from three point land. Will it go even higher this year? I wouldn't be surprised. Coming off a 53.5 year just to. To keep it going. But their front court is an issue. So to me, I'm taking the over because I do think they will work hard enough for Missoula number one, because it is. Yeah, it's a. Hey, it's. It's on his shoulder to do this this time. I think they have enough guys to be a.500 team, especially in this Eastern Conference. But what are your takes?
- [08:47]
B
Yeah, I actually am in Missoula mode for this one as well. He seems to me to be the kind of coach who will be able to succeed with not having a lot of talent and will take a great deal of pride in being able to do that. You know, like I'm thinking of A Doc Rivers Orlando Magic team where you're like you should be the eighth seed and suddenly you win more games than anybody's expecting, you win coach of the year sort of thing. He seems exactly like the type of guy to thrive in that scenario. We just haven't seen it yet. I'm going for a slight over here on the Celtics as well. I'm kind of surprised though that you took the over since you said Jaylen Brown won't even be an all Star season.
- [09:21]
A
Yeah, well, I've gone through some waves. I mean when it happened, when Tatum's injury happened, I know you formulated the, the idea that hey, the other teams like Giannis de Gumpo and the Milwaukee Bucks are going to be fantastic because of these injuries. There's no doubt. And I felt at that time though, the Celtics are just too good. They'll be able to hang with the Milwaukee Bucks. Then I watched Jaylen round in the playoffs and he just wasn't quite the same guy. And maybe he won't be the same guy. But we're talking the east, we're talking about a 500 team. So even if Jaylen Brown isn't necessarily an all NBA player, again, if his knee is still bothering him, this team is good enough to be literally be a 500 team. I think this is a 41 and a half number. It's not.
- [10:08]
B
500 is an undertas.
- [10:09]
A
Yes, barely. Yes, you're right. I mean I should say they have to be over 500, but I'm fine taking that even if I don't know how Jalen Brown's knee is. But I think they'll be fine. What do you think Skeets? Are you over under on a 41 and a half number?
- [10:23]
C
I'm ultimately going. Jon, just under. I, I think this is going to be like right around that 39, 40, 41 wins and that'll be under. I mean we're glossed over it. This is a rough front court and I like Keita and he looked great in Euro Basket and he's going to get an opportunity. But then we're talking Chris Boucher who I also like. But that guy was like in the doghouse up in Toronto and now he's an important part. And Luca Garza, I mean like he barely played in Minnesota. These are like their main bigs. So as even if the much three point shooting and scoring they get, they're gonna need to stop some teams and get something from their front court. So I think, you know, look, this is, there's gonna be no shame in being a 500 club. Just over, just under whatever with when you lose a top five MVP guy in Jayson Tatum. But I, I'll, I'll go just under.
- [11:08]
A
Yeah. That's the weird thing about these numbers sometimes. The Bulls had 39 wins, not too far off from this 41 win number that we're looking at last year. Right. And would you consider the Bulls front court all that? Amazing. I mean, they did it. They did it late in the season.
- [11:23]
B
Bulls have to do with anything.
- [11:26]
A
Shots here, man.
- [11:27]
B
Great year last year. The Celtics would love to have Vuch as a starter.
- [11:31]
A
Yeah.
- [11:32]
B
They would be 10 times better than.
- [11:33]
A
Any of their front court players I know. Yeah. So it is a question about the Celtics front court players, but I say Josh Minot. Josh, why not? Why can't this team go 42 and 40? That guy should be decent. He's calling Missoula weirdo. I think Missoula's, as we said, he's focused on getting this team to frickin above.500. So it'll be fun.
- [11:56]
B
Yeah, he said he would, if he was ever in a marathon, he would just run until he dies. What they asked him how he thought he would do in a marathon, he's like, I'll just run until I die. I personally think he could finish before 26.2 miles, but I think he finished that before dying. But you know, this guy isn't going to let the Celtics slack at all. They're going to try and win as many games as possible. The problem is if, like, Jaylen Brown goes down with an injury, Derek White goes down with an injury, they're even shallower than they are. But like, I feel like they can challenge for 42 wins.
- [12:26]
A
Would you want to play hard for a guy that says that? I. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter, but I don't know, it's just a weird thing to say.
- [12:35]
B
He says a lot of weird that that was so under the radar that you didn't even care about it.
- [12:41]
A
No.
- [12:41]
B
You're like, yeah, of course you want to play for a guy that's gonna throw down on the Brazilian Jiu jitsu.
- [12:47]
A
Matt. Yeah. We didn't even mention Anthony Simons, who said, I mean, I've never been taught defense before. And now, and now he's here on the Boston Celtics and he's being taught defense.
- [12:56]
B
Lockdown. Lockdown.
- [12:57]
A
We'll see if they can go 42 and 40. Let's get to another team that's in a very drastically different position. The Brooklyn nets line is 20 and a half after going 26 and 56 last year. So can this team win 21 games to be over that line? Trey, what do you think?
- [13:16]
B
Under 20 wins is pretty bad. Three teams were under 20 wins last season. We only had two in the 23, 24 season and then one in the year prior. 2022 slash 23. I do think the Nets roster is the worst roster in the Eastern Conference from the beginning of the year to the end of the year. Like, once we get to the end of the season, I think the Wizards will probably have a worse roster, but at least they're starting the year with Chris Middleton and C.J. mcCollum around. You look at the vets for the Nets and it's like Michael Porter Jr. Is probably going to lead their team in scoring. It'll be him or Cam Thomas, depending on, I guess, who gets the jump ball because that person's getting one more shot than the other guy. Other than that, veteran wise, it's like Terrence Mann. So I'm not really enthused by this Brooklyn team. You think of their season last year, they won 26 games. That includes going 9 and 11 through November. Then they said, we're a little bit too good right now. We got to get rid of Dennis Schroeder from there on 17 wins the rest of the way, which is still a 22 win pace. But I think this is the year the Nets really want to be bad for the entirety of the season. They have their own pick. They do have a swap next season with Houston. So it's better to be bad this year, get another look at, hopefully a top five pick and at least have good odds to get it. So I'm anticipating the Nets being.
- [14:37]
A
I.
- [14:37]
B
Don'T know, one of the two worst teams in the Eastern Conference. Take your pick if it's going to be them and the Wizards. But I will go under on the Nets. I think they're in the teens for wins.
- [14:46]
A
All right, Skeets, your thoughts on the Brooklyn Nets?
- [14:49]
C
Yeah, this team stinks. They're going to be bad. I'm with Trey. I mean, 20 and a half is low. It is really low. They did look solid to start the year. Like Trey said, they had a great coach, but yeah, then they traded all their talent and then they drafted five rookies in the first round. Like, they're going to be the first team to like, go a full season with five rookies selected in the first round on their roster. They had a bunch of lineups last year and now their main guys are Michael Porter Jr. And Cam Thomas. Like that's going to be fun. I know House of Highlights is going to have a blast clipping all their hijinks and I'm sure Cam Thomas will, you know, score 40 plus in a couple games. Even Michael Porter Jr. Maybe. But I don't think it's going to translate to a lot of wins. Just with all the rooks and like even these like, like Kobe Buffkin. They're hoping Pops and obviously Terrence Band is there and I guess Haywood Highsmith. It's just like it is a gross looking roster. They're in a transitional sort of phase here. They're going to want a high draft pick and don't worry, they're going to get it because they're bad. I think they're going to be one of the worst teams and that probably will be, I don't know, 17, 18 wins, something like that.
- [15:56]
A
Yeah. The worrisome part is getting into that offense without a veteran point guard. Really. Now could it be Terence Manny getting the reins here a little bit even though you know he's more of a combo guard. Their first round pick that people were excited about. Jaeger Joman is injured to start the season. Ben Saroff could be the guy. He literally could be starting for them. This 19 year old who's capable guy. He's a big six, six guard. That being said, yeah, it is worrisome even though you got Jordy Fernandez who yes, started that season last year coaching a 9 and 11 team. But the point guard problem is the biggest problem. Dennis Schroeder was traded last season. Then d' Angelo Russell gone at the end of the season here. Cam Johnson gone. So you're, you're running out Michael Porter Jr. Terrence Mann and the guys I met. You mentioned Cam Thomas, Nick Claxton will be there. The point guard thing is, is an issue. Watford left. It is a very good line. I think they're going to be somewhere around there. But the point I again starting these possessions, getting into their offense is not something Michael Porter Jr. Ever did. So even though he's there and he's their guy, that's not what he did in Denver. He can't do that. So they have a lot of point guards. Yeah, but to me they're all their strength is on the wing or, or their bigs. So I don't see them getting there. It'll be close, but I'll take the under as well.
- [17:22]
C
Their best chance to hit the over is to have so many Games where the competition comes in and be like, look at these guys. Oh, my God. We're gonna play. Like, we're gonna play pick up who for three quarters tonight. Right. Like, we don't have to try all that hard. We're not going to be giving it on the defensive end. And then suddenly it's like a close game in the fourth, and maybe they pull out more victories than we sort of anticipate. But all said. Yeah, yeah, it's a good line. They're going to win 15 to 20 games or 15 to 22 games. I'm just taking the under.
- [17:47]
A
Yeah, that would be a. You know, it's a pretty drastic drop off from last year's 26 and 56 to lose. They do.
- [17:57]
B
I'm confident they can pull it off.
- [17:59]
A
Yeah, we shall see.
- [18:00]
B
How about this, though? Fewest assists per game in the shot clock era. The 8 or the 98, 99 Hawks, only 15.6 assists per game. I think the Nets could challenge that this year. Not a lot of passers on this roster.
- [18:16]
A
That's a great line.
- [18:18]
B
Yeah. I mean, under four assists per quarter is pretty brutal, but they got some guys that like to dribble and shoot.
- [18:25]
A
Right, right. And they're not going to play super fast by any means, so something to.
- [18:31]
B
Keep track of for sure.
- [18:32]
A
Very good line. Very good line. All right, let's stay in the New York area. Let's go to the New York Knicks, because this one is a little bit more inspiring to talk about, I'd say, than the Brooklyn Nets. The Knicks line is 53 and a half wins up slightly, you know, bumped up a little bit from last year's record where they were 51 and 31. So, Trey, what are your thoughts on the New York Knicks?
- [18:56]
B
Yeah, they only got to win three more games to hit the over here. I think this isn't over for me. The Knicks, because they have their starting five intact, though the formulation may change. It might be Mitchell Robinson in for Josh Hart. I know you've said you'd like to see Gershon, Yabu, Selle in there for Josh Hart. Either way, their top six guys are still around. They added Yabu. They added Jordan Clarkson, who I think is at least a helpful player, especially considering he'll be farther down on the pecking order for the next deuce. McBride is still good. Even their dudes who are getting, like, camp invites might not make the team. You're like, I know that guy. He might be helpful. I'm talking about a Malcolm Brogdon, Alex Len. Garrison Matthews, guys who are like, you know, 10 to 12 men on teams. But that's what they are on the Knicks. And last year it was like they wouldn't even go past number eight. So I think a little bit of extra depth is big time. They don't have much depth on the wing. The good thing is that Mikhail Bridges basically plays all the time. If they can keep him healthy, keep OG Anunoby healthy, I think they've got a really solid one through 10. So I like what the Knicks are cooking up. They've been playing together for a while. They won 51 games last year, and that's throwing Karl Anthony Towns for Julius Randle trade in right at the last second. Completely changed their team compared to the Nova Bros that they thought they were going in with. So I think the Knicks will be good this year. Wouldn't surprise me if they have the most wins in the Eastern Conference.
- [20:18]
A
Yeah. What do you think, Skeets? This is just two and a half more wins essentially than last year. If you're looking at the line, it's a line that everybody's optimistic about. What do you think?
- [20:29]
C
Yeah, I was sort of shocked that, you know, Vegas put this line at 53 and a half. I think before they came out, I thought it would be higher.
- [20:37]
A
Right.
- [20:37]
C
You know, they're running back the same core. That was really good. They've added some pieces like Traders went through. Now they have the new coach thing. Like, that's the big question mark. It's will Mike Brown be playing more of a longer game, trying to build up the second unit? Maybe a sacrifice and W's there, or Tibbs is sort of like always like balls to the wall. Everybody's playing 40 minutes maybe, but you need to do that in order to have playoff success. Sort of build up these 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th guys. But yeah, I thought it was gonna be higher. So I like the over too. I think they're in the 55 to 60 win mark. That's where I would have them if everybody stays healthy. And this is low, it's fairly low. So I'm in, I'm in on the Knicks being one of the best teams in the East. Of course they, they have goals to make the Eastern Conference finals and finals. So I think they're just gonna p good season here. More, you know, just continuity with their main guys. And I like it, it feels almost too easy. So I'm a little hesitant there, but.
- [21:33]
A
I'll take the over. Could be a sneaky one. I, I, I also have to Say I agree. How can I, how can you disagree? Like coach aside, who I think will benefit them staying way fresher. I just think we forget that Mitchell Robinson is healthy to start the season. He wasn't last year. He can get in there at the five and play good defense and allow Carl to go to the four. And last year they didn't allow guys to come off the bench enough. And I think Mike Brown's going to do that. Everyone will be fresher. To me, I think they're going to go way deeper throughout the bench. And, and last year they were just so good offensively. They just came back in one games and even though they were just sort of a middle of the pack defense, they were just able to turn it on in the fourth quarter. Brunson and Carl were able to do that. And I think if they do have a little bit more of a defensive attitude, that starts with Mitchell Robinson starting and Yabu Selle probably coming off the bench, I think there's enough guys to help their defense. I think everyone will be fresher and everybody will be into it. This is, these are, these are, these guys are in their prime. You know, I'm talking about Jalen and Carl, Anthony Towns and Og and Mikel Bridges. It feels in the Eastern Commerce that they're gonna win 55 games. It's just, it does, just feels, feels right. Especially again with, you know, the, the in between years of the Celtics and the Pacers. I got the over. But maybe you're right, Skeets. Maybe this is just a sneaky line. Maybe, maybe they don't try. I don't get it. I, I, I honestly, I don't get why they wouldn't be this good or, excuse me, have the tendency to be like a 55, 56 win team. I just don't get it.
- [23:21]
B
I mean, Tom Thibodell is a good.
- [23:23]
A
Coach, of course, of course.
- [23:24]
B
You know, and for as much as we talk about how shallow he goes with the bench players like that's good for getting regular season wins. That's a large part of the reason the Knicks usually overperform. Same with the Bulls. Back in the day, when you play your best guys all the time, you're going to probably win more games than you should. Maybe spreading out the minutes is better for them long term, especially come playoff time. But I suppose they could go under on their wins just from playing their guys less.
- [23:50]
A
That's a fair point. I mean, Mikhail Bridges though, during the season said, you got to play our guys more. And I think he meant that because, yes, they got tired for the postseason, but also because they got some good guys and they have even more of them now, especially with Mitch and Robinson starting the season healthy. And we'll see what they do. As far as the buy in for Mike Brown's offense, where Brunson has to come off the ball a little bit more, a little bit more of a Warriors or Cavs type, where it's not just, hey, Brunson, you bring up the ball. Let's get everybody involved. So we'll see if they don't like Mike Brown for some odd reason. But I am looking forward to Carl out there with Gershon Yabuzeli, a guy who shoots threes to space out the floor for him as much as possible on those drives and play a five out. I'm just a Yabu Saleh backer.
- [24:35]
B
You think you're gonna call him Carl the whole season?
- [24:38]
A
Yeah, I can't. I can't.
- [24:39]
C
He always calls him Carl.
- [24:40]
B
Straight up, Carl.
- [24:41]
A
I'm not going three names. It's just too many names.
- [24:43]
B
How about Towns called Cat.
- [24:45]
A
Yeah, Cat.
- [24:46]
B
Everybody else.
- [24:47]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:51]
B
Every time. Who is Carl?
- [24:53]
A
Well, Reggie Miller calls him Anthony Towns. Right. Or that one's even weirder. I don't know which is weirder out there, Carl or Anthony Towns. All right, let's move on to the Philadelphia 76ers. Now this one pure guess. Another tough one. Another tough one. Line makers are doing well. 43 and a half. Can the Philadelphia 76ers win basically 20 more games than last year? They were 24 and 58 last year. Their line is 43 and a half this year. What do you think, Trey?
- [25:23]
B
This reminds me of the Clippers line before last season where you're like, literally, who's going to be playing? Because if Paul, George and Joel Embiid played, their starting five looks good. Guess what? Those guys are already question marks for when they start the season big time. All of their returning players this season played 60 or fewer games. Like Kelly Oubre Jr. Is the high games played man from last season on this year's Sixers team. Embiid and George played a total of 60 games last year. I think they'll play more this year, but literally, who knows? This one feels like an impossible way to pick on either side with confidence. Not knowing when Embiid and George are going to be healthy. Ergo, I'm going under. Things are already bad for the Sixers, you know, Jared McCain is out. We've got the question marks with Embiid and George I know Paul George said it can't be as bad as last year, but it could be the same as last year, right?
- [26:19]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And when you look at the number at 43 and a half, that's a low number. Yeah. Even if it's close to last year, they're winning way fewer games than 43 and a half. What do you think, Skeets?
- [26:30]
C
I'm leaning under as well. I just could. I mean, I want to flip a coin. I mean I basically want to flip a coin because who knows. But I guess I. We'll go with what we've seen over the last little while and just Embiid struggling to stay healthy and Paul George don't love McCain injured. I'm excited for Vijay Edgecombe. I think this guy's gonna be an unbelievable highlight from night to night. Very excited for that rookie and. And the possibility of him getting an opportunity because of all the injuries. But. But there's no way I have confidence in them all playing like they put their main trio of Embiid. Paul George and Maxi played what, 15 games together last year. Like, even if we double that, even if we make it half the season, we still might be struggling to get to this overall line. So give me just under. I think they're going to be in, you know, that. That play in sort of category or maybe vying for the six seed for a good chunk of the season. But. But I'll go just under.
- [27:25]
A
Yeah. That line of 43 and a half is just for 76ers fans, I guess, to go over. I mean who, who else is really thinking that Embiid and Paul George are going to play again as much. It just. It's just hard to see that happening and be played 19 games last year. He's not playing right now. They think they're. I think they're going to go more with the modern day Kawhi Leonard load management system, which is sit out October, November, December and play in January and February. I think that's what the. Unless they want to try what they did last year, which was play one game sit to play one game sit two. I just don't know what the over underline is for Joel Embiid games played. I think that's 25, 30. I guess it's halfway. I guess you would do it halfway, but I'm taking the under on that one no matter what it is. Paul George last year played 41 games. He's not playing right now. He had off season knee surgery again. Can he bounce back? Last year was his worst year in a long time. Is this not exactly the same as Joel Embiid that has these injury issues But Paul George had that very traumatizing injury early in his career a long time over a decade ago. Is it starting to catch up to him at this point? Maybe I'm leaning into that a little too hard but it's just difficult to see a lot of guys playing on on this team. As you said Trey, the leaders games played last year it was Ricky Council IV who's gone. Gershon Yabuseli who's gone. Those were one, two and then it's Ubere, Adam Bona, Tyrese Maxey who played 52, Justin Edwards and then Paul Georgia was seventh and then this year who is going to play those games? It's Uber. I guess Grimes will play a good amount. Vijay Edgecombe and Trend to Watford.
- [29:10]
B
Yeah, I tried to find a silver lining here. I was like Trend and Watford. That guy had to play a ton of games for the Nets last year. They had nothing. 44 games.
- [29:16]
A
Yeah, he didn't. Come on man.
- [29:19]
B
That's like the one bargain basement signing they did that I was all a little enthused by and he played half the season. He's a born Sixer.
- [29:26]
A
So across the board we're going under I guess on 43 and a half. Just seems. Seems out there. Yeah.
- [29:34]
B
I also think yeah this is the year for the Sixers.
- [29:37]
C
Yeah, I think this could be a year too. I know they make an insane amount of money both guys and beat and Paul George but you're taking phone calls from teams that are maybe trying to get them. Like if you're Daryl Worry and the Sixers like to trade off of them I think it'd be silly to at least not explore that. But again I don't think there's a. It wouldn't be great packages for guys that are perpetually injured but when healthy or talented and maybe like they're enough for some of these teams that want to jump up a level or even you know, with hopes of a championship. I don't know who but I'm just saying I wouldn't be all that shocked if one of those guys has maybe moved during the season if it goes to again.
- [30:13]
A
Yeah, I can look at their roster and think the same thing. They have a seemingly a two path system here. Maybe we go. Yeah but Paul George has this current this coming year plus two years after that.
- [30:26]
C
Oh I know.
- [30:26]
B
Well that's the. Yeah. I mean wouldn't. Would not the Sixers have to add draft picks to get off of either one of those contracts and that doesn't.
- [30:33]
C
Maybe, maybe not indeed, oddly. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [30:39]
A
Unless Paul George can turn around because last year was a bit of an anomaly because he hadn't been that bad in a long time. So we'll see what PG can do and then, then he could be trade worthy for another team. I suppose.
- [30:55]
B
I would guess that they are both Sixers by the end of the season, but we'll see. If they have literally two weeks of good health, they should be in trade rumors.
- [31:02]
A
Okay, let's move on to the Toronto Raptors. The line is 39 and a half coming off a 30 and 52 season. Skeets, you want to start on this Toronto Raptors team?
- [31:14]
C
Yeah, sure. Look, before I wave the homer flag I want to remind everyone that the last couple years I was not high on the Raptors and I was saying pound the under these this team is bad and they're going to be bad. So it's not like I'm every year coming in here going over a little different. This year I actually do believe somewhere in this squad is around a 500 team. They got the line at the perfect spot of 39 and a half. It's going to be real close on one side or the other, but I'm going to take the over I think. Look, there's no doubt the Raptors front office is believing this is a 500 team. With the amount of money they've thrown at it like this, the prepayment for this team is unreal. So now they need to at least deliver a borderline playoff team or at least one that's in the play in and you're going to be around there with that record. But I am, I'm, I'm excited just to see them out there and hopefully playing together and that's what we get with this team. I guess. It's not all that's dissimilar to like a Sixers team or teams that are perpetually injured. Like we got to see them at this point. The quickly obviously the Barnes and the Brandon ingram and, and R.J. barrett as their main four and then Purdue is their fifth. Like that's a good starting lineup. It'll be interesting to see how it meshes. But I'm, I'm in on just hitting the over and I am excited for the articles that will be written about this second unit on the Raptors. Give it like four or five weeks because there's a lot of dogs defensive minded guys and I think they're gonna like help the Raptors stay in games and win games with some of those guys. And they're talking the talk here in the preseason. So I'll go just over. I am not saying this is a 50 win team or anything like that. I think they're flirting with a 500 squad here and I'm, I'm excited to see really Scotty and Brandon Ingram see how that works.
- [33:00]
A
They do have a lot of dogs. It is funny when you, when you think the best thing about this team is saying their names. Most of the time it's Barnes and Ingram and RJ Barrett and just saying their whole starting lineup. It seems to be the most exciting part. I'm.
- [33:17]
C
Does it work together is the question.
- [33:19]
A
Yeah, I'm enthused. But anyways, before I get to my entire enthusiasm, Trey, what do you think?
- [33:24]
B
There's a lot of talent here for sure. They just have never played together, which is pretty tough to overlook when the big question is how are all of these guys going to fit? Like you guys keep including RJ Barrett. I think the only way they hit their over is if they trade him right away. And I don't think that's going to happen. Emmanuel Quickley played 33 games last year. Brandon Ingram played zero games for the Raptors last year and they still won 30 games. They should be better this year, but 10 wins better. Is Brandon Ingram a 10 wins worth player? I don't know about that.
- [33:53]
A
Yeah, I just think the other guys are going to play now. I'm just assuming. I'm assuming Emmanuel Quickley doesn't take the floor and Darius Garland gets under him for a rebound in the first game and knocks him out and they go down. I just assume that just being positive that these guys are healthy to some degree, there is going to be a year where they play basketball. They have been playing together since the beginning of September or something like that. It's been a long time. I'm just enthused by their enthusiasm about playing together. Like these guys seem like they want to play ball together as in they're gonna allow the other guy to shine. It sounds like a squad. Scotty Barnes is not going to be the, the go to guy. Here's the ball. Darko Milicich said as much and he's Darko Ryakovich. Oh yeah, I'm sorry.
- [34:40]
C
Milicich.
- [34:40]
A
Wow. Once you say Darko, it's kind of hard to say he number one Darka. But he said he's going to be on the ball less Which I think is great. You come in for those little seal on post ups, the dunker spot, that kind of thing. Give the ball to Brandon Ingram. Emmanuel Quickley also said, I, I think I can average 10 threes per game and a lot of them, a lot of them are going to be catch and shoot. They're all dependent on each other. RJ Barrett is excited to play as not just the go to guy on a team as a guy who you know, sets up other guys, allows other to take pressure off him. So it's optimism time with all those four guys. If, if they allow each other to do their thing and they're deep enough, I, I think Scotty is just going to do so many good things. If Brandon Ingram is the leading point scorer on this team like he has been before in his career and Scotty can play off the ball, do a ton of things like that, set up his defensive side of the ball because he's not gonna have to do as much offensively. And then all those dogs, as you said Skeets, so many dogs.
- [35:41]
B
Name some dogs.
- [35:42]
A
Jamal Shed.
- [35:43]
C
Oh, call him early. Colin Murray Boyles already. Guy's an elite defender. I know I'm like drinking the preseason juice here. But he's legit defensive guy so he'll be a second unit guy that's going to shut down guys.
- [35:55]
A
They got a near seven foot dog in mam. He's you know, less of a dog than the other guys. But there's, there's enough dogs on that second you did, I mean we didn't talk about Grady Dick, we haven't talked about Jacoby Walter, Jonathan Mobo. More of a dog than those last two guys I mentioned. But he can be added to the dog pound.
- [36:12]
C
He can be the reason why this line is maybe high to some like 39 a half is, is pretty simple like last year. It couldn't have started worse. Barnes and Quickley were out early. They missed extended time in November and December and the raptors started like 7 and 26 like by the new year after that they actually ended on a positive Note. They were a 500 team. They were like 22 and 21 over the final half of the season and a defensive identity like it jumped from like 26th to second in defensive rating. I get it, it's Mickey Mouse March time and all that and people are taking their foot off the gas. But there is something there. And so now the hope is adding Brandon Ingram and adding quickly like you said, shooting like maybe 10 threes a game. They need to hit Threes. This team stinks at shooting threes and hitting them so they need quickly in there firing away. Ingram has added a little bit more to his game from the three point line. That's got to continue to. And then Grady Dick does need to stretch the floor and hit threes if he's you know, probably as in the second unit. So that's all we're asking a lot here. But that's the reason I think that this line is what it's at. There was like glimpses of it last year and now you've got more talent and now it's up to. To Darko, the third best Darko there is behind Milicic and Donnie to to to make it work. And I think that's where. Where we'll get here a 500 team. And look that's the expectation. Like this is an expensive team. Trey, you've said it a million times. It is. So it at least has to be flirting with a playoff position and that like Darko's gone if they can't get around 500. Like there's this is such a prove it year for the coach and a lot of these players and I guess I'm banking on that they put it together.
- [37:59]
A
Yeah, they're saving some money by firing Masai Ujiri but they decided yeah, this is what they're going with and yes, so this is a team that could make a deal and Bobby Webster was kind of indirect about that but basically saying we'll feel it out. But it could feel like a team that trades RJ Barrett. Most likely that would be the guy of the three mid range players.
- [38:21]
B
Bobby Webster also said that RJ Barrett needs to improve his offense, his defense and his rebounding at media day. So I don't think he's maybe the biggest fan. It would help their roster to move him for a guy who can shoot from the outside or give Grady Dick a little bit more space. I'm going to go under here like 39 to 38 wins sounds about right to me. I think they'll be better this year but I don't know if it translates to an over so I'll go slight under.
- [38:44]
A
Okay, let's get to the other 10 Eastern Conference teams in a second. But first a word from our sponsors.
- [38:53]
B
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- [40:58]
A
The no Dunk studio. The new studio as we're working on. You said sculpt. That's a good word.
- [41:04]
B
We're sculpting.
- [41:05]
A
We're sculpting in here. Yes, Sculpting our studio. All right, let's move on. We've got 10 teams to get through since the Atlantic division took a little bit of time. Let's move on to the central. It's your team, Trey. The Chicago Bulls.
- [41:19]
C
Yes.
- [41:19]
A
Their line is 32 and a half. Coming off a year where they're 39 and 43. Quite the drop off in numbers. What do you think?
- [41:28]
B
Well, 39 and 43. That of course includes going 15 and 7 during Mickey Mouse March and I don't believe it, April. The only real Change for the Bulls this season is Isaac Okoro in, Lonzo Ball out. Even look at their veterans who might get traded during the season. Talking about a vouch. Maybe Kobe, Wyatt, IO Dasumu, even Zach Collins. These are guys who I think if they're traded, probably don't move the needle. Wins wise. All that much for the Bulls. Dissimilar to me to last year when they traded Zach lavine and he was kind of like clearly the best guy. There's just some guys on this team. I think there will be less surprise for the Bulls this season. Last year, after the DeRozan and Levine era, with DeRozan gone even with Zach Levine still around and then even more so once he got traded, they played super fast, shot a ton of threes, finished the year third in three pointers last season. People will be more ready for it this year. The team I think is worse, but the number is so low, 32 and a half wins. So I'm going barely over this year.
- [42:34]
C
Barely over. I was, I was envious of this. 32 and a half. I was like, why can't this be the Raptors?
- [42:40]
A
Totally.
- [42:40]
B
You're telling me the Bulls are that much worse than the Raptors?
- [42:42]
C
I mean, yeah, I know. I was, I was a little shocked that the Raptors was maybe as high as it was and this was as low as it was. I don't think I've correctly predicted a Bulls over underline ever. I'm always wrong, wrong. I was wrong last year, I was wrong the year before that, and I'll probably be wrong again. So Trey will not be happy to hear me say I'm taking the over as well. This feels, feels very, very low in a crappy, crappy Eastern Conference where there's just a lot of somewhat easy wins to pick up here against some of these bad teams. And they're like, they got their little core, their little nucleus of their 25 years or younger guys and Gideon White and Boozelis, like there's something there. Basically the same team like Trey said, but that should still be a 35 win team to me, so I'm taking the over. This one's a weird line to me, Tess.
- [43:33]
A
It is a weird line. Do they know something? Are all the Bulls fans saying, wow, seven fewer wins than last year? Of course I'm taking the over. That's the part where I think if other teams are looking at last year and saying, okay, this team's gonna run, they're just such a pace based team, can we play with them? And slow Them down a little bit because that's how you beat the Bulls. They're not going to stop you. Their defense stunk.
- [44:02]
B
Yes.
- [44:02]
A
Across, across the board. Every single stat. They're bad. So then they go and get Isaac Cora, who's literally their best defender. Can he be a guy who just instills defense? It's hard to imagine that. I think I oddly got injured late in the season. Maybe him working his way back would help because he's been training for a long time. Maybe that helps on the ball. But at the same time, are you going to play him with giddy a ton? Probably not. So I, I, I, this 32 and a half is a good line. Really. It's Isaac Okoro in their draft pick, Noah Sengay in and Lonzo Ball out. So it's such a similar team. But does it all come down to March, really? This was going to happen. Are they just, are they able to turn it? What was the, the, the line or.
- [44:50]
B
The record seven during the last two months of the season? And that's why I'm ultimately going over, you know, the Bulls are going to care about winning those games when they probably should be going the other way and trying to get better lottery odds. That's not how it's going to be. They're going to try and make it back to the play in. I saw over on FanDuel, they're a plus 1,185 to make the play in. As that fan told us at summer league, we love the 10th seed. That seems like a given right there that the Bulls are going to finish 10th in the Eastern Conference after back to back years. Finishing all the way up at ninth.
- [45:21]
A
Yeah, all you do, all you have to do is finish 10th. You gotta be better than five teams in the Eastern Conference.
- [45:26]
B
I don't think there's five teams that it's a lock.
- [45:29]
A
No, no, no, no, no.
- [45:30]
B
But they're gonna care a lot during the last third of the season.
- [45:33]
A
Yeah. The Hornets, Nets, Wizards, I'd say are the teams that are, yeah, destined to be at the bottom. But there's not five locks. No, no, I totally agree with that.
- [45:43]
C
But I want to know, I want to know from Trey what, but like what a year looks like for Bouzilles or what a good year looks like from Bouzelis for you because he did look strong to end the season again, it's classic at the end of it. But he like looked good over the final 20 games. Shot the ball well. But where do you see like him going? What's his ceiling, I guess.
- [46:01]
B
All right. He finished the season averaging eight and a half points per game. I want to see him at 12 to 13 points per game. I would like to see the three pointer stay at least 36%. That's what he shot last year. If he can shoot league average, I think that's awesome. Take more of them, give us some highlights and be a guy who we mention at the end of the season as an all defense team snub. Like I think it's asking a lot for him to make it to second team all defense, but I would like him to be one of the guys who would make third team or maybe fourth team all defense if they did that. That's what I'm excited about. Can Matas Bouzelis be a fourth team all defense player this year? I hope so.
- [46:42]
A
It is a strange season in Chicago.
- [46:45]
B
Yeah, not a lot. Not a lot of Bulls talk at the wedding, unfortunately.
- [46:52]
A
What was the talk about? Any, any Cubs?
- [46:55]
B
Cubs blowing it against the Brewers? Of course. You know, they went up 10 in the first inning and then it was over by the end of the bottom of the first inning.
- [47:02]
A
Yeah, the brewers just solid.
- [47:04]
B
They got it going.
- [47:04]
A
They got it going on right now. All right, moving on to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Also an interesting line here at 56 and a half after going 64 and 18 last season. And they're running back a very, very similar team. Trey, start us off here. What do you think?
- [47:23]
B
Yeah, no Ty Jerome, no Isaac Okoro, but you are getting Lonzo Ball in. We'll see exactly how much he's able to play full season of DeAndre Hunter as well. One of the, like the most forgettable guys. When I'm looking at the rosters, I'm like, oh yeah, they did trade for DeAndre Hunter. He did play for them last year. It was a big deal when it happened. I think they'll probably need a little bit more from him, especially with Darius Garland banged up to start the season. Max Stru banged up to start the season. It feels like DeAndre Hunter, at least in the early goings, will be important for the CAVS. But yeah, 64 wins down to 56 and a half. I'm probably still going over here. Even though I think that the Cavs will prioritize the postseason more than they did last year when they ripped off a huge win streak to start the year and focused really hard on getting the number one seed. I don't think chasing wins is as much in the cards. You also look at how healthy they were last year. 82 games for Jared Allen, 75 for Garland, 71 for Donovan Mitchell, 71 for Evan Mobley. A couple of those guys are younger, so I assume that they'll play quite a few games like Mobley is. But Garland being banged up up, I don't think that's encouraging. Jared Allen does play a lot of games. Mitchell seemed to manage his body pretty well. But if any of those guys misses extended time, the Cavs look a little worse. That being said, like, I don't think they're gonna lose that many more games this year. So I'm still sticking with the over though I do think they will be under 60 wins this year.
- [48:48]
A
Okay, line 56 and a half.
- [48:50]
B
Yeah.
- [48:50]
A
Skeets, what do you think?
- [48:51]
C
Okay, I'll. I'll. I'll swerve, I guess a little bit from Trey. I'll go just under. I mean, all. For all the reasons he just said. I think it's going to be around 55, 56 maybe even. They're just. They had the perfect season. Hold on. They had the perfect regular season last year. They scored a ton of points. I read that they scored the eighth most points in NBA history on their way to 64 wins. Apparently. They scored 9,999 points. Man, somebody couldn't hit one more free throw to make that a cool 10k. But. But they led their conference for like the entirety of the year. 165 straight days. They had three all stars. They had the Coach of the Year, they had defensive player of the Year, and then, you know, they got banged up once again in the postseason. You know, in 24, it was Allen and Mitchell missing multiple games against the Celtics last May. It's Garland, Mobley, Hunter. They're all missing time in the semis to the Pacers loss. So they need to flip that and get guys injured in the regular season and then all be healthy come the postseason. I think they're just going to play the long game here and with these injuries coming in, I think they're not just going to be like the starting as hot as they did. So I'm just going to go just under. There's still going to be one of the best teams in the Eastern conference, but not 60 plus like Trey said. So I'll go just under.
- [50:07]
A
Yeah. You mentioned the injuries being a problem. I do think the Darius Garland injury to start here this season could be a bit of a blessing because this team needs to do more than just give Garland and Donovan. Mitchell. Mitchell the ball to finish games it's got to go through Evan Mobley a heck of a lot more. Now that doesn't necessarily mean not ton more regular season wins, but this team will focus on what they have to be in the playoffs and they have to be a more versatile team. And Mobley just wasn't used enough last year. He just gotta, has to be given the ball. He has to be unleashed a little bit. This number is crazy. When you look at their, their clutch situations, their usage rates were Donovan Mitchell 37.7, Darius Garland 28 and Evan Mobley just 11.9%. And then when it came to that series against the Pacers, Pacers knew what was going on here. They were just ready for this team. And so that 56 and a half win mark, I think they can beat it and they're not going to crush it like last year because Garland is out. I think that does hurt. But Lonzo Ball, who's going to get a ton of minutes because Garland is out, will do a good job of sharing the ball. It's. It's his job. I mean they, they essentially went Lonzo ball over Ty Jerome because they number one, they needed a ball mover and a guy who could play fourth quarters. And in the end they said by Ty Jerome, we're keeping Sam Merrill. They paid him and they got Lonzo Ball. So I think they know what they have to be. They got to be the team that moves the ball more. So I think I, I don't see a problem with all Those guys plus DeAndre Hunter there for a full season. As Kenny Atkinson said, you can argue that he is our best player this offseason.
- [51:50]
C
Oh God. Then I'll pound the under.
- [51:52]
A
Yeah.
- [51:53]
B
This is making me less confident.
- [51:54]
C
My God.
- [51:55]
A
I know you're not a DeAndre Hunter.
- [51:57]
C
Fan skis, but he's forgot he even plays on his team. Case and play.
- [52:00]
B
He's a forgettable guy.
- [52:01]
A
Yeah, he had his best season last year. I know you, you don't like the fact that he can't play games. He's usually injured. He was injured usually with the Atlanta Hawks. Then he got traded to Cleveland. Whoo. Looked like a new player. Although, you know, he was great coming off the bench for the, the Hawks last year and then now he's entering his prime. So he doesn't have to be much of a player there because everybody else is going to take.
- [52:28]
B
Which is it, man, does he need to me doesn't need to be much of a player or. He was the best guy in Cavs training camp.
- [52:33]
A
Well, I Don't know. I'm not watching the training camp. In training camp. He doesn't have to. He doesn't have to be.
- [52:40]
B
I might be. Swear I might be changing up here. I might be changing up here with.
- [52:43]
A
This DeAndre Hunter pitch because Kenny Atkinson said he's. He's our best player.
- [52:48]
C
Yeah.
- [52:48]
A
I'm not pitching him. He's a good player. He's a good. He's a good basketball player. Yeah. It was fourth in six man voting last year. That's all. That's all you need to hear. Year. And they have him for a full.
- [52:59]
B
Year, so now they need. They need him to be good for him. And, and he was good for the Hawks at the beginning of the year last year. But the clutch thing is kind of interesting because the reason Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell got the ball so much in the clutch is because they were great at it. They Both finished top 10 in clutch player of the year voting last year. I can't believe Garland actually finished higher than Mitchell, but he made a lot of big shots late. So I do think if the Cavs are wanting to prioritize the playoffs, which they should because they've kind of flamed out these past couple of years and they need Evan Mobley to be more empowered come playoff time, that would mean that they are turning down better clutch options in Garland and Mitchell to build up Evan Mobley, which is bad for their regular season win total, even if it's good for the team in the long run. So I don't know, I'll stick with my over, but I'm not feeling good about it.
- [53:47]
A
Yeah, they'll definitely finish a lot closer to that 56 and a half win total because of that than they did last year at 64 and 18. That being said, it's such a similar team, why should they be dramatically worse? I know Garland's not playing.
- [54:04]
B
Yeah, Ty Jerome was like Steve Nash last year as well. I couldn't miss.
- [54:08]
A
He was good. He was good coming off the bench. All right. Moving on to the Detroit Pistons, who were everybody's Cinderella last year. They finished 44 and 38. This year their number is 46 and a half. Skeets, what do you think of this over under number?
- [54:25]
C
Good line. Well played, Vegas. You know, they didn't go crazy with it. Didn't even keep it the same. Just a couple wins more than last year, where they went from the worst team in the league to clinching a playoff spot, which was pretty impressive. They've added Caris LeVert, Duncan Robinson, sort Of to replace Malik Beasley. Javante Greens there lost Tim Hardaway Jr. Schroeder Fontechio Waters the third. So just around the fringe is they are adding a fully recovered Jaden Ivey, which is exciting. I think that's going to really give them a nice boost. Should take some pressure off Cade Cunningham. He has a super high usage. He should. He's awesome. But the one knock against Cade is he's sort of sloppy with the ball at times and the turnovers are high. So maybe that sort of like is a little more kept in check with Ivey back in the fold. Maybe as a secondary ball handler. I, I guess I struggle with where to go over under here when I go. Okay, which of the three teams of the Pistons, the Hawks and the Magic are like you expecting to jump up sort of into the top of the Eastern Conference picture? If any of those three, are you picking one of the three, two of the three. Zero. Three. Whatever. So I'm like going back and forth here and because of all that, I'm shocking myself here. As much as I love this team, I'm going to take the underground and I really truly believe they're going to win 46 games. So I am saying just under. But I think a lot of people, maybe you guys included, are going to pound me over and say, no, this is just a team growing an all NBA guard and Cade leading your team and then. And then guys like Thompson and Duran and Holland and just everybody sort of improving as they get a little more reps in the league. So I get it, but I'm. I'm swerving. I think. I think a lot of people are going to be on the over and I'll go just under on Detroit.
- [56:13]
A
Trey, what do you think?
- [56:14]
B
Yeah, I'm under as well. I think this is basically the same team as last year and last year was the big jump. They won 30 more games than their disaster season when they had Monty Williams there in 2324. So, you know, progress isn't always linear. Going from 14 to 44 wins doesn't mean you're going to 54 wins. I think they have very similar talent. Like to me, Duncan Robinson can replace the shooting that they got from Malik Beasley last season From Tim Hardaway Jr. The question then becomes, can Jaden Ivey do what Beasley and Schroeder were doing from a ball handling standpoint and hitting clutch shots? Maybe. I think we haven't totally seen that. But in the 30 games he played last year, he looked pretty solid alongside Cade Cunningham. So I think the Pistons can be a little bit better this year and still go under, still have a quality season. Last year was just such an aberration to jump up that high that I think it's unlikely they have a similar improvement this year. So give me like a barely under like 45, 46 wins, I think is still a good year for the Pistons. It's just unfortunately an under for them when you're making the pick.
- [57:23]
A
Yeah, I'm with you. I guess people who watch this team realize, you know, they don't have to jump up a ton of wins to be a better team. That's what it comes down to. I still think they can finish around that 46 win mark. Think they are banking in a lot of young players in new roles and that's what it comes down to. Jaden Ivey could be really good in catching shoots with Cade Cunningham. Sure that could work, but this is the first time they're really playing together with Cade being that number one guy in a serious role here because Ivy's role is going to jump up, especially with Malik Beasley gone. Asar Thompson is a similar thing where he played in short little spurts last year coming off the blood clot. Now he's going to play even in longer minutes, which is good in the long run, but maybe it doesn't result in four more wins. Essentially they have so many young guys they're going to rely more on Jalen Duran, Ron Holland as well. And then they have to do what they didn't do last year, is rely on somebody to be Dennis Schroeder. Essentially. Dennis Schroeder was a ton, had a ton of ball handling possessions at the end of games. Now it's carousel. Vert, I think, is going to be that guy and and BJ Big or BJ Bickerstaff. Bickerstaff has a ton of connection with Caris Lavert going back to his Cleveland days, that he will work for him. But I mean this is different. This is different than Dennis Schroeder. So I don't know. There's just question marks that you go into the season you didn't have last year and can Duncan Robinson really be as good as Malik Beasley? I think that's a fair question. We haven't seen as good a year from Duncan Robinson as we did Malik Beasley last year. That guy was just awesome.
- [59:06]
C
BEASLEY Hit like nearly 323s last year.
- [59:10]
B
We haven't seen Malik Beasley have a season like that before last year.
- [59:13]
A
That Was a spectacular year. So it's going to be a lot on dunk. Yeah, just a lot of. Lot of moving parts here with this team that obviously is going to be led by Kate. The guy expects to win and they're going to have a winning record. But jumping up to 40 has to.
- [59:28]
B
Be the number two guy. I'm sorry if it's Karis LeVert as the second guy. So can up possessions in fourth quarters alongside Cade Cunningham. Something's gone wrong because this is the year we need to really see something from Ivey. Year four, you know, Cade had an injury year where they didn't get to play together. Then Ivey had an injury year where they didn't get to play together. This year he needs to play like 70 games. Stay on the court alongside Cade Cunningham and show us what you got as the number two man.
- [59:53]
A
Yeah, this is his year. There's no doubt. I do think Karis LeVert sort of just overlooked as a player. Dennis Schroeder was relied on last year, got moved, and we'll see if Karis LeVert can replace. Replace that. But it is good to see Jay Navi back playing basketball after he was. I mean, he was taken out by Cole Anthony last year. So this is. It's good to see him play. But again, these are. This is a new connection between him and Kate. Moving on.
- [60:18]
C
The Pistons do feel like a team just before we move on where, like, you guys are saying, if they have a similar record to last year, I don't think that's like a failure. Right. I think, like, that's building on something. I think you'd want to see some incremental win increases and maybe some more. Another great fight in the playoffs or maybe even winning a playoff series, who knows? But, like, I guess what we're getting at here is even if we say the under, I don't think that's bad by any means. Like, they. They have obviously their superstar guy and Cade and then these other really good, talented guys, and they're hoping, like Trey said, Ivy is the secondary guy, and then you've got all your other guys. So I just want to make that clear. Like, I don't think this is like, a knock on them, and I think they're one of the weird teams. Like, like they could have a similar year. And people are like, oh, that's great. That's not bad. As long as there's some internal growth that we're seeing from the team.
- [61:03]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It'll be fun to see people either love or Hate on the Detroit business. That's bound to happen. But they have so many capable players. We'll see what they can do under J.B. bickerstaff. Let's move on to the Indiana Pacers. It's a very interesting team here last year going 50 and 32. Their line now at 37 and a half, way lower. I know when you did our, we did our mailbag show recently. Trey, you said this team is going to be that overachieving team next year. What do you think now?
- [61:37]
B
Well now that's even crazier that I'm looking at this. The Celtics went from 61 wins down to their over under being 41 wins. You're saying 50 wins last year for Indiana and they lost Tyrese Halliburton, they lost Miles Turner and theirs is only dropping down to 37 7, which is why I'm going with the over here. I do think this is the biggest change up team in the league. Like Halliburton defines that offense. He is the generator of most of their good looks. He's completely their identity on that end. Losing him completely changes the way Indiana is even going to approach the offensive side of the ball and the defensive side. Miles Turner was their center for literally 10 straight years. So another change on that side. But Rick Carlisle, in the 23 seasons he's coached in the NBA, he's only had 37 or fewer wins in seven of those seasons. I just think there's enough good players left on the Pacers to win 38 or more games. So give me the the over. I'm a Pascal Siakam believer. I think Nemhard is capable of more and they're going to need more from him. And you know Ben Matheran is basically in a contract year trying to prove that he is worth keeping around as long term peace for the Pacers. So I think they will be back to full strength for the 25, 26 season. They'll be looking good then. But in the meantime I think probably play in for the Pacers, but still a good enough team. So give me the over here.
- [63:00]
A
Skeets, 37 and a half for a team that just went to the finals. What do you think?
- [63:05]
C
Yeah, I contemplated going under because they did lose their like two of their best players, one to injury and then the other in sort of a shocking free agency. Move move in Miles Turner leaving from Milwaukee, but I just love all their guys still and I think we're gonna have like a most improved race between Nemhard and Matheran. I mean that's that's a season's going well probably for Indy, if that is the case. And those guys are like in the top five for MIP votes. Siakam is a lead guy. We've seen it as Raptors fans, you know, it has its limitations, but we have a very low line here.
- [63:40]
A
Here.
- [63:40]
C
I'm going just over. They're going to be a playing team. They're well coached. You know, they're like going to have obviously their system in place and they just still like, are. This team feels still better to me somehow than the Raptors, than the Bulls. I guess we could debate about the Bucks and stuff like that, but they're not. They're not. There's no way we're sliding them down to the lower tier of the Eastern Conference. They're in the middle and I like a lot of guys. So I'll go just over with Trey. I'm with him on this one.
- [64:08]
A
Yeah, it's easy to buy into this team after watching them go essentially 9, 10 deep into the NBA Finals and say, whoa, that guy. Whoa. Obi Toppin, Whoa. Everybody contributing off the bench, will they just get into a funk like they did last year? They were 10 and 15 to start the season and they suddenly found their groove and they got super hot. Will the lack of Halliburton starting every position limit them from getting into that group Roof and Miles Turner on the defensive end, will he not being around limit them there? Because that is where defensively they got a big issue. And they're running out Isaiah Jackson, they're running out James Wiseman, they're running out Jay Huff and Tony Bradley. So the defense is going to take a step down. Will no Halliburton be out there, take a, a huge step down offensively? I mean, they will share the ball. Rick will make sure TJ McConnell will share the ball with everybody. And you know, a guy like T.J. mcConnell is going to try lead this team into a they're betting against us type of mentality, type of locker room. They have a bunch of guys there's no doubt, like Pascal Siakam. Like you said, Skeets, he did lead a Toronto Raptors team to a lot more wins. Like he led his team to a 48 win season in 21, 22. There was a Fred on there. There was an OG playing half a season on that team. This seemingly isn't as good, but, but you know, 500 team would not be surprising. I, I do think the Halliburton loss, they may just not find that Groove. It's really just. It is a. It's a coin flip here. I'll take an under. But there are so many guys. There are so many freaking guys that could easily propel them over that total. It does seem low.
- [65:53]
B
What'd you think of Jayhoff shaving his head?
- [65:55]
A
I haven't seen the huff head much needed.
- [65:58]
B
Good choice.
- [65:59]
C
This looks good.
- [66:00]
A
Yeah.
- [66:01]
B
He was well compared.
- [66:03]
A
Was he to previous. Was he balding before? Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [66:09]
B
He shaved his head. Rudy Gobert shaved his head. That's the time.
- [66:14]
A
See, now that you say that, now that I'm looking at the. The hair on his head, I mean, it is pretty substantial. Like when you said bald, and I've seen bald. I guess the bald spot is pretty.
- [66:27]
B
Yeah, you got to get the. The reverse angle angle. Yeah. He's looking good. That's looking good. He'll look nice next to Tyrese Halliburton next year. But they don't got the setup man this year. We shall see. They're not going to be as fun to watch, but I think they can still win games.
- [66:44]
A
See, on our. At our new studio set here, we. We just flip the camera around, flip the screen around, and we show you Jayhoff. If I could figure out how to show you Jay. There he is. That's Jay Hop. That's Hoff. Yeah, yeah, it is that. Camera. Camera. There's Hoff head. Hey, looks good. Anyway, moving on. Pacers will be fun to watch. Let's get to the Milwaukee box. 42 and a half for a Yannis team. What do you. What do you think, Skeets? You locked into an over.
- [67:13]
C
This is one of my locks. Yep, it's it. This is. I was shocked how low this was. Now I know there are some question marks, especially when it comes to their guard. Play. Play. And they had a busy summer. They retooled to try and keep Giannis happy. We can debate whether they did a good enough job. I guess they did a great job because they got his brother back on the team. Good for Vibes. Thanasis is there, but Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, then Miles Turner. That was huge. And it took waving Damian Lillard to get there. Brooks gone. Pat Connington's gone. Resigned a bunch of guys. Portis, Kevin Porter Jr. Gary Trent Jr. I just think this line is too low. If Giannis is, like, healthy for, you know, 70 games, if he plays 70 games, he's enough in the season conference to get you, you know, 44, 45 wins, I think so I'm Locking this one in. This is gonna be. I guess we're getting whispers of the point Giannis experiment here too. The guy's numbers are already insane, so if they only increase somehow across the the box score, he will like he always is, is in the MVP conversation. Maybe they even surprise teams and are flirting with 50 and then he's like possibly even winning another one. I don't think that's out of the question. So I'll go over Trey as one of my locks to tip my hand here. I like it.
- [68:30]
B
Yeah, they gotta have point Giannis because they have probably the worst creators in the NBA outside of him. Their top perimeter options are going to be Kyle Kuzma, Kevin Porter Jr. And Cole Anthony. So Giannis is going to need to make a lot of plays. They lost Dame, they lost Brook. Miles Turner is going to make the defense pretty solid. I think him and Giannis are a destructive duo together. The last time the Bucks won fewer than 40 games was Giannis's third year in the NBA. But back then Giannis played like 80 games a year and now he's at like 65 games a year. And the question to me is what happens in those 15 games that Giannis misses? Bucks could go Owen 15. They have basically a tanking roster outside of Giannis. So if Giannis has an MVP like season, they go over, but I'm going under. I just think he's go if he misses any kind of time. They're one of the worst teams in the league.
- [69:20]
A
It's totally reasonable and that's why that line has dropped from a team that went 48 and 34 last year to 42 and a half. I'm going over because I think Giannis will just be pretty prideful this year. He wants that MVP back, wants more talk of that. I think Miles Turner will help him. Just having two to deal with a heck of a lot more centers. Brooke was there last year, but Brooke couldn't be old prime. Brook, while you're getting Miles Turner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just wasn't the same guy. And now Miles Turner will be guarding every single five out there. And I think that just helps him on both sides because Giannis has had to deal with centers and that just. It hasn't worked all that well. Actually. When he was interviewed after Eurobasket, an hour long Greek interview, he was asked about playing in Europe versus playing in the U.S. he said he kind of favors playing in Europe because you don't have to deal with all these monsters like Jalen Duran. He just named These monstrous centers that he had to deal with. It won't happen the same way with Milestone. He's going to take that off him. That being said, who's going to help the guy who is their second best player that's going to handle the ball? It's just such a big question. Is it a positive that he'll big up Cole Anthony? I mean, that he's doing that right now. He said Cole Anthony is going to be a secret great player for them. Okay. I mean, they're. They're really jot. And Horst is really just grabbing guys in the barrel. Give me Cole Anthony, give me Gary Harris. Come on by. Help us out in any way, shape or form you can. Amir Coffee from the Los Angeles Clippers could literally be. Be their best wing at times, or is Kyle Kuzma a new player? Have to reinvent himself to be good. But, yeah, Milwaukee has won at least 46 games for seven straight seasons. Is this the season that they're gonna drop to essentially like a.500 team? I'll take the over, but it is, yeah, a ton of question marks, especially considering how many games Giannis is gonna play. I think he's still young enough to be able to play as many as he. He wants, but how many does he want to play? I mean, he wants to be healthy for the postseason, but will the Miles Turner factor help him out a good amount? I think. I think he will, yeah.
- [71:43]
C
I mean, it should. Turner, like, he brings rim protection like obviously Brook did in his prime. And he at least last year showed an ability to really stretch the floor. Like, he hit over two threes per game. He shot a really good percentage with the Pacers. They're going to need that turn or to be, you know, the same type of thing replicated in Milwaukee. But, yeah, you're right about the guards. It's rough. I mean, this is why this. Giannis sort of point Giannis everything through him. Not that it feels like it already does anyway. It's like how much more can go through him is going to be fascinating. I saw Da I thought sort of perfectly wrapped up the front office from the Bucks and how they, like, turned over every stone to keep Giannis happy. And again, I will include bringing back his brother, which is definitely a part of this. But. But they burned through much of their future draft capital. They've cycled through coaches, they've traded impact players. They even did the whole waving and stretching of Lillard and setting fire to $100 million right there, doing all they can to at least Please Giannis and keep him. And now maybe it's Giannis turn, I guess, to sort of like thank them, so to speak. So I just. If he plays enough, they just. He's too good to have a.500 team. Yeah, at least I might.
- [72:52]
B
Kind of what it came down to for me is like if he misses 15 games, can they win 40 out of 60? Yeah, that's when Giannis plays. And that seems like a big lift, right? Because I mean, you're. I mean, they're really scraping the barrel. If they're bringing in Gary Harris and Cole Anthony, two guys who are on the worst offense in the league, and they're like, hey, we got these two.
- [73:10]
C
To help us out.
- [73:12]
A
Yeah, Ryan Rollins is probably going to start a lot.
- [73:14]
B
He's also bad on offense, unfortunately.
- [73:16]
A
Yeah, he's struggles. Yeah, that's why.
- [73:18]
B
And the Bucks defense was better than the Pacers last year, even though they had Brook Lopez and the Pacers had Miles Turner. I think that's like a sideways move. Lopez for Turner. We'll see.
- [73:29]
A
We shall. All right. Moving on to the Southeast Division. Always fun to say. The Atlanta Hawks. Let's stay here in Atlanta. They are at a line of 47 and a half. Big on huge one. What do you think, Trey? Can they win over 47 games this season?
- [73:49]
B
Hawks haven't won 48 or more games since the 2015-16 season. That's 10 years. This is the best, deepest team they've had around Trey Young. I'm anticipating a breakout season for our guy, Mo Gay. The Mo Gay that's on the Hawks. Not the one that was signed by the Bulls and is a former Raptor. There's a lot of health concerns, certainly, I think with Kristaps Porzingis and Jalen Johnson, but to me those are more health concerns for will they be healthy come playoff time when it really matters? The bigger risk to the over under for me is Trae Young. He's generally pretty healthy, but if he misses time, there is not a backup on the team for Trae Young. I guess it would probably be like a combo platter of Dyson Daniels and Nikhil Alexander Walker. Maybe they even would start a guy like Luke Kennard for a bit little. Little three point shooting and playmaking. But if Trey misses any significant amount of time, I could see this going under for sure. This is such a devious number. Like I do think the Hawks are going to be better. They were 40 and 42 last year. I think they can easily win five or six more games this year. That would still put them under unfortunately. So I am going to go under. I believe in the team and I think if they have, have Porzingis and Johnson and Trey healthy come playoff time, like they've got a good chance to surprise people and make a run similar to 2021 where they make it to the conference finals if things break perfectly. As for regular season, 47 and a half is just too high for me.
- [75:17]
A
It is a devious number because we just talked about the Detroit Pistons who have a lower number at 46 and a half and they went to the playoffs. What do you think? Is this just the line makers riding the hype train of, of June and July where listen, they made some glorious moves, but can they win 48 games?
- [75:38]
C
Skeets, I think that's exactly what this line is. I think you're right. You nailed it. Their tasks, they're, they're, they're getting people with this one. Oh, that's not that crazy. 47 and a half. They could win a 50 games. Yeah, maybe they could. Because I don't think like it's a stretch to say Atlanta's front office probably had top three summers, right? I mean Houston, maybe Denver's in the mix there. I think the Hawks are in the mix for crushing the off season. But that's all on paper and now we got to see it in action. I am excited to see Nikhil Alexander Walker alongside Dyson Daniels. Like when they're out there, that's two elite perimeter defenders and they can force turnovers and fuel that offense for Atlanta. And if Jalen Johnson's on the wing running and obviously Trey pushing the ball, that's going to be a lot more fun to watch. I think it'll be exciting. Porzingis, huge question mark. Guy played 42 games last year. I mean he had ankle surgery at the start, then he had a mystery illness and he never plays like this. I checked. He's never, he's, he hasn't played more than 70 games since his rookie season. So to get like a full healthy KP season, it's far fetched. I think the Hawks have guys that they can slide in there during the regular season and would need KP come playoff time like Trey said. But I'm going just under. As much as what I love they did this off season. There will be an improvement and it'll be right around here. I don't see him as a 50 win team. I really don't. And that's why I'm going under.
- [77:06]
A
Yeah, the front office was Incredible. Ansi Saleh and those moves helped everybody out here in Atlanta. I had a Hawks shirt on. I was out and about. Guy just yelled at me, go Hawks. And I said it's going to be a good year. He said, it's going to be the year. And I said, whoa, wow. People are over. People are hype because of these moves. There's no doubt for every good move though, there is a question mark. Like you said, Kristaps Porzingis, is he going to play Jalen Johnson, fair question if he's going to play or not. He's only played in 56% of games in his young career. He's easily, you know, their second best player, third best, whatever you want to call him. He's super important to this team. That being said, you start to look at the lineups like you said. Nikhil Alexander Walker, Dyson Daniels. If they're playing beside Trey Young and they go in that direction, Trey Young doesn't even have to play defense in those lineups. There's going to be enough defense around him. It's going to be fun to watch like a Kristaps. And Trey Kristaps said that Trae Young is the best passer in the league. He's going to be picking and popping. There's no doubt it is going to be interesting to see those, those guys in these. I think there's a lot of versatility in these lineups like a Dyson Daniels who unfortunately could have to be more of a ball handler. He said he's working on his mid range game but you start to put those pieces in these lineups where you put him beside Nikhil Alexander Walker and then you got the fire guys around him like Luke Canard. You start to think, whoa, this team can win plenty of games. But that number is just, it's just big and there's too many question marks for me so I, I'll go under. But the first winning team in a while it feels like and over.500 is it's a good season for the Atlanta Hawks.
- [78:52]
C
A good season for the Hawks is to avoid the damn playing tournament. Like get into the playoffs. Like 46 wins. That, that should get you in, I think. Or maybe right around there, 46, 47 wins like gets you maybe like a six seed or a 15 even. So that's the goal. Avoid the play in at all costs. Where they just are like, like the Bulls are just sort of always in the mix there and can never sort of take it to the next level. Yeah, injuries come into play. I'M I am excited. Like, I do think there's like not pressure because he had a pressure on him his entire career. But like this on paper is as about as well as you could do, I think to put a team around Trae Young to fit sort of his style, right. He went through all the defensive guys and the pick and pop big and all these athletic guys that he can throw lobster like it makes sense. And now it's like, okay, now it's got to translate into some, some wins and then maybe some playoff success. So there's that. That he should be looking around like, oh, this is my best chance here in a very depleted Eastern Conference like we said too. So I'm excited to get down to the fortress, watch some Hawks games. Kaka left and right on the podcast guess because I think they're going to be more fun.
- [79:58]
A
They will be more fun. I. I didn't mention some guys. We'll see. Playing like Zachary Re Sachet, I think could help out. You know, when he's pegged into A. A 4th, 5th, 6th best player type of role, he can be awesome. But will they put him in a. A third best role because of injuries or the third best player type of role? That's the question mark with this team. So tbd. And then the question mark is if Trey Young is happy at the end of the season because he was put into all those rumors last year that he wasn't happy if this team isn't all that good, which is a fair question.
- [80:36]
B
Made a little noise about not having that extension yet.
- [80:38]
A
He did say that, but the pressure's.
- [80:40]
B
On him, like, easily. This is the best team he's had and the team that makes the most sense and the deepest team and the things that address his weaknesses the most. So if it ain't this year, it might not ever be the time.
- [80:51]
A
Yeah, right. I did think I watched that clip of him being asked about the extension. He just kind of answered the question when he was asked, he said, well, you know, I'd always like an extension, but I want to talk about my team here, you know. So then it's, well, this guy doesn't want to be on this team and I think he is happy to be here. At the same time, this is it. This is on paper, this team can go monstrous and long beside him. And I think we don't give enough credit for how hard he played defensively last year. But again, if these guys are injured, then it's not really on Trey. It's kind of just like, okay, this Team ain't all that good. It'll be fun. It'll be fun this year going down to State Farm. All right, moving on, the Charlotte Hornets, 26 and a half after going 19 and 63 last year. Skeets, you want to start us off on a 26 and a half line? What do you think?
- [81:43]
C
Think. Oh, the Charlotte Horns. Okay. They are on a crazy long playoff drought. It shocked me when I saw it was nine years. I think it's the longest active playoff drought in the league right now. So they have not sniffed any postseason in a long time. But they have their reasons, they have their excuses. It usually starts with injuries. Again, I hate to sound like a broken record, like we've done with a lot of these teams, but like, does Lamelo ball play that really helps their chances to hit a very low over here. Same with Brandon Miller. I think they're just trying to replicate what the Pistons sort of did last year and that is to grow, develop the young core. That's the theme. But then you bring in sort of these vets like Sexton and Dinwiddie and Pat Connaughton and Plum Dog Millionaire to like raise the floor a little bit to help out the kids and maybe put together some wins. But I still don't like, love this squad overall. I'm not really a Lamelo ball believer and I'm gonna go under. There's got to be some bad teams, really bad teams in the east, and I think they're still going to be in the mix as one of them. But I, I get it. I could see people going, are you silly? Like, when he plays, they're a much better team. Well, he's got to play first off and a lot of other things got to go right. So I'm going under. Trust Ray, 26 and a half.
- [83:03]
B
That's the smart move. But I'm a believer.
- [83:07]
C
I see.
- [83:07]
A
I knew it.
- [83:08]
B
I don't know. I guess I saw lamelo do an 18 foot step back yesterday on Instagram and now I want to go over. He's playing 60 plus games this year and if that happens, I think the Hornets go. Over the last three years, LaMelo's played 36, 22 and 47 games. And when he plays, guess what? They play at a 29 win pace. So it doesn't really even matter if he's out there.
- [83:28]
A
There.
- [83:28]
B
Skeets, you listed off the vets. Those vets suck. Colin Sexton, Pat Connaughton, Spencer Dinwiddie, who's maybe not even on the Team that's not Tobias Harris, that's not Malik Beasley. Right. Like those guys are rotation players for basically any team. Sexton and Conaton and Dinwiddie, they are rotation players for the Hornets. Then you look at their bigs. It's Plumlee Kalkbrenner, a rookie, and Tajan Salon, who was maybe the worst rookie in the league league last year outside of Cody Williams. I don't know. Toss up between those two guys. They should be under. The Hornets should be under. But I'm going over. This one's the one I'm going to be wrong on. 27 wins for the Hornets.
- [84:07]
A
I think, wow, I was wrong last year. I got fooled last year when he went 19 and 63. I thought they were an over team because I thought Lamila Ball was going to play basketball. I believed in him saying, I'm wearing ankle braces for the first time in my, my career. My ankles are gonna be strong. And he learned that from Steph, apparently. So I thought that he was gonna play, but I got fooled and I'm not sure how many games he plays. Number one. Like you said that sure. They could win 27 or 29 games. Is, is the, the what they're on pace for if he plays? I don't know. I don't know if he plays. He doesn't have the leadership in him. I, I, I don't think, think. And Colin Sexton is there. Yeah. Because apparently he's there to be his bud. And they talk about him helping him out in as far as leadership goes. They're inseparable and he's really helping him out. But I can't buy that talk. I just, I can't buy it. I got fooled last year and they, they're literally trying to get young guys there as well that can hopefully turn around this team. You mentioned guys like Ryan Calbrenner, the defensive player of the year in college.
- [85:21]
C
That's right.
- [85:21]
A
Con can, who plays really hard. Liam McNeely plays really hard. They got a bunch of those guys.
- [85:27]
B
But a bunch of white guys.
- [85:28]
A
Yeah. There's so many white guys. Yeah. That's why they got Mason Plum Dog there. That's what they have. Is this a 27 win team? After going 19 and 63 last year? I find it hard to believe. So I'm, I am under, unfortunately.
- [85:45]
C
Going under. Yeah. Back to Colin Sexton. I just saw this yesterday from clutch pole points. Sort of blew my mind. It was about how Colin Sexton has been in the league for eight years and he has still not played for a true contender and nor will he this season with the Charlotte Hornets because he went through Cleveland's post LeBron years and then Utah's transition after Donovan Mitchell and now he's with this young Charlotte team trying to like find some sort of rhythm or try and win. He's played for, I looked it up. He's played for one winning team in his career year. It was the 2122 Cavs. They finished 44 and 38 and that was the year Sexton barely played. He played like 11 games because of injury, so it wasn't really because of him. So he is in here as a vet voice I guess to help Lamelo Ball again. I don't think it's gonna matter. They're. It's. They're still going to be a bad team and they're just hoping Knipple Calca Brenner they're gonna like pop. They got something they're hoping for because it ain't so much on, I'll tell you that.
- [86:43]
A
Yeah, Colin Sexton hasn't played in a playoff game in his career. Although as you said, they're 44 and 38. They finish 8th in that 2122 season.
- [86:53]
B
Fell off completely in the second half if I'm not mistaken.
- [86:56]
A
Why weren't they a playoff team? Why didn't he play in the playoffs?
- [86:59]
B
That he was playing tournament, right?
- [87:01]
A
Yeah, I guess it was that. Playing tournament. Yeah.
- [87:03]
B
Look, I'll just say Colin Sexton's numbers are always better the worse his team is.
- [87:07]
A
Yeah, I don't think.
- [87:08]
B
I think it's more of a feature, not a bug. Yeah, he hasn't made it to the playoffs yet.
- [87:12]
A
Yeah, he had a good, good season last year and they decided, okay, Yusuf Norkich isn't working here in Charlotte. Let's trade him for Colin Sexton. I suppose to literally have a friend to sit beside Lamello Ball to try and get him, just have a vet guard around him. I think that's what the idea is, to try and get Lamelo to be a leader because that's what this team comes down to. We watched them all the ball. He's obviously enamored by so many fans out there. He led the frickin Eastern Conference guards in all star fan voting last year.
- [87:43]
B
Pretty weird.
- [87:44]
A
And they finished 19 and 63. It's just about playing. We'll see if he plays. That's what it comes down to. And they'll win. Be on a 29 pace win streak. Sure. All right, moving on to the Miami Heat 37 and a half. 37 and a half for a team that went 37 and 45 last year?
- [88:05]
B
Yeah, that's what such a dare like. You don't really think the Heat were that bad last year, do you? Or do you? He haven't had Back to back sub 40 win seasons since 2002 and 2003. I saw in FanDuel. They're also a plus 154 to get to 40 wins. If you're saying it's not going to happen again. But guess what? It might happen again. 13 and 12 with Jimmy Butler in the lineup last year, people blamed him a lot lot for the Heat's problem, saying his trade request was hanging over the team. But they were also bad once he finally did get traded. 24 and 33 in the games they played without Jimmy Butler last season. A large part of that was because the Heat couldn't win clutch games. They were 28th in the league in clutch wins last year. So if you're looking at this from a glass half full perspective, better luck, more wins. If you're looking at it in a glass half empty situation, you're saying Tyler Herro is already out. He is their main clutch player. So maybe fewer clutch wins. I still think the Heat though, we're going to have a top 10 off top 10 defense. They'll probably finish in the bottom 10 on offense as well. I think they go over, but I think they finish under.500. So give me 38 or 39 wins for the Miami Heat. A slight over.
- [89:22]
A
Skeets, what do you think of this line here? 37 and a half.
- [89:26]
C
I'm glad Trey brought up their abysmal play in the clutch. They lost so many games that they were like leading by double digits or leading when they entered the third quarter and then when it got into clutch time, I think they had a 14 and 28 record in clutch games and they still finished 3745 and they still had a positive net rating, which is really weird. So I think that does flip back a little bit here. There is no Jimmy Butler cloud hanging over them at the start of the season. There's question marks, especially with the Tyler Hero injury. It's like who is starting for this team? Like what is the lineup? Is it Mitchell, Powell, Wiggins, Bam. And where like are they going with that? Are they going to go a little differently? But I think it's enough to be a ballpark.500 team. I think this line is a little low for them. I think if this was 39, 40 I'd probably go the other way, but give me the over. Give me the over. That's just odd to have still a positive net rating and blow all those games. I think the luck flips a little bit in their favor.
- [90:30]
A
Yeah, I don't buy that. Jimmy Butler was a huge cloud on this team. They started 20 and 17. That's pretty solid. The fact that they go and get Norm Norman Powell to be their leading scorer, well, I think it'll cancel the Tyler Herro injury. Decent. A decent amount. Nikola Jovich, I think will have his best season. Young guy.
- [90:53]
C
You could start too.
- [90:53]
A
He'll probably start. I imagine he will. Jaime Hawkes will have a bounce back here. He can't be worse than his sophomore season. Andrew Wiggins there for the beginning of the season can't be worse either. I think Eric Spoelstra goes really, really deep with this team because there's a bunch of guys and I think they'll be good enough to win over.36, seven wins. So whether or not they hit.500, I still think they're. They're an over for me.
- [91:19]
B
Yeah. The hero, however long hero's out, I think kind of determines this because he was. He's foot surgery. Right. So he's out for quite some time. If he misses like all of November and they're playing catch up, I think they're definitely on under. But as of now, I'm hoping he heals quickly and barely over.
- [91:39]
A
Yeah, he'll be back some point in November, but yes, it could be late November and again he'd have a bunch of guys. But will they be able to score is the question. Because their defense will be solid as always. All right, moving on to the Orlando magic. Pegged at 50 and a half wins. Whoa. What do you think, Skeets does this an over or under on a team that was.500 last year?
- [92:05]
C
I'm hesitant to go over because I did it last year and then I got screwed by the Obliques. The Obliques did me in, or at least that's what I'm convincing myself. But I'm going to go over. I love the addition of Bain. I know it cost them a lot of draft capital, but the guy is exactly what they need. They need a boost in perimeter shooting. The guy's a really good three point shooter. They only hit 11.23 pointers per game last year. One of the worst when it came to three point percentage as well. Like sub 32%. Those are bad, bad numbers in today's NBA. So formula simple boost the offense, keep that elite defense, that lockdown defense. And I like it. So I'm gonna be basically banking on this is the team of those three. I sort of pitched to you guys. Sort of the Hawks, the Pistons, and then the Magic as the one I think does sort of break out into that next level. Hoping Ben Caro and Franz play. Coming off best years for both those guys. Big numbers just need to be healthy. And Jelen Suggs too. He's like the ultimate like glue guy when he plays. They're good. And he was setting career highs across the board. And then his knee, you know, went out on him there and he had to have surgery in March. So I'm going to drink the Kool Aid. It looks good. They have an identity, that defensive identity. And now they're adding some hopeful punch to their three point shooting. And they need improvements from Banchero and Franz as well. It can't just be Bane, you know, hitting three or four threes a game. But I believe in it enough. I like that. I love a team that sort of knows who they are and are trying to improve the things that they suffer at. So I'll go just over. They're not gonna be a 61 team, but I think they're low 50s.
- [93:43]
B
Yeah, 41 and 41 last year. And that's with 60 games from Franz, 46 from Paolo. And I think Suggs only played 35. He doesn't seem like he's totally ready for the start of the season, Suggs, but you know, they brought in Tyus Jones as a good backup point guard. Jace Richardson has been running with the starters seen in Jalen Sugar. Suggs's absence and then the addition of Bane definitely helps on the offensive end. It feels like this should be a regular season wins machine. Cause they've been second in defense last season, the season prior as well. You assume that's gonna stay strong that end of the ball. Top five for sure. If Franz, Paulo and Bain are able to stay on the court. Been a question mark with Bain as well. I think their offense creeps out of the 20s. We're talking about low teens, which would be be amazing for the Orlando Magic. They would be like 7 seconds or less Suns if that happens. So if they keep their good defense, we're all expecting their offense to take a step forward. That means you have to be looking more at the 23, 24 season. Franz and Paulo both played 70 games, Orlando 147. So I'm kind of judging it more so off that. I think this is an over as well.
- [94:49]
A
Yeah, I'll go the over. Hopefully those two guys play. There's no doubt out. I think they just have so much less pressure now. You just watch a lot of those possessions. It's literally those guys handling the ball and creating on their own. Desmond Bain, known for a shooter but also can create five assists per game the last couple seasons. He can create on the ball. He can definitely attack closeouts and he'll just create space for those two guys. Hopefully Jalen Suggs is on the floor with him. Them and these little tiny moves like Tyus Jones, that's an improvement. He will take the minutes of. Corey Joseph literally was starting for a ton of games for them last year when Suggs was injured. Jace Richardson, it's exciting guy. He's probably going to be their sixth man, I would guess, and he's going to be good. He looks good in preseason because that means a lot, but he is obviously a talented guy. So.
- [95:44]
B
Plus 194 to get to 55 or more wins the Magic. How like you likely do you think that is? 55 wins, that's a lot. That's like you're challenging for the one scene.
- [95:54]
A
You are. You are. I would. I wouldn't take that. I wouldn't take that line. I'd rather bet the Knicks plus 55 at the Cavs plus 55. How many 55 teams wins can you have? 55 win teams can you have in a conference?
- [96:10]
B
There's two last year.
- [96:11]
A
Yeah, I think that's a lot.
- [96:12]
C
It's usually one to three, I think.
- [96:14]
A
Right. I guess it's possible to have three. It's in an Eastern Conference. I guess it is possible, but I. I think.
- [96:20]
C
Trey, you said it. You slipped it in there. They just feel like they're going to be a regular season machine again, like health bearing, like. Like they're already flirting right with the second apron. Like it's coming. Like it's looming, I guess. So it's sort of like I got to start winning now. We got to start like really showing that we're one of the elite teams in the Eastern Conference. So I do think they're going to probably approach and when you have an awesome defense, you can do that as well. Even on nights where you're struggling to score like they were last year. And still we're a.500 team and we think that's going to improve. So that's why I do like them winning 51 plus here and jumping up sort of into the conversation. At least of the better teams in The Eastern Conference. I do have some trivia for you guys. I know it's been a while. Banchero, 25.9 points per game. Franz Wagner, 24.2. Both coming off career years. Like I said.
- [97:08]
A
Said.
- [97:09]
C
They're one of only three returning healthy duos to each average 24 plus points per game. Can you name the other two duos to score over 24 points per game that are. That are both healthy that coming into the season here?
- [97:23]
A
Okay.
- [97:24]
B
Both healthy coming into the season.
- [97:26]
C
Yeah.
- [97:30]
A
24 plus last season or just.
- [97:34]
C
Yeah, going off of last season's points per game?
- [97:36]
A
Yeah, I need to.
- [97:38]
C
Pretty obvious one.
- [97:42]
B
Pretty obvious one to Townsend Brunson.
- [97:45]
C
There you go.
- [97:46]
A
Yes, there you go.
- [97:48]
C
I was gonna say maybe the other one was even more obvious. There you go. There you go.
- [97:53]
B
I haven't thought about the Western Conference in days.
- [97:55]
C
Yeah, save it to Wednesday.
- [97:56]
B
Save it to Wednesday. And was there more?
- [97:59]
C
No, that's it. So you named them. So again, healthy coming into this season. Yeah, it's Luca Lebron and then it's Cat and Brunson and then Paolo and Bangladesh. Caro. Sorry, Paolo and France.
- [98:11]
A
Yeah. Tatum and Brown obviously would have been there. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
- [98:16]
B
Didn't get there, actually.
- [98:17]
A
No. Jaylen Brown only had 22.2 points per game last year. So. Yeah, 24.
- [98:22]
C
I guess that's why you called him a role player.
- [98:24]
A
No joke. Yes, yes. I went bare earlier on this off season. Yeah. I hope his knees. All right. Obviously that's a. A factor. Let's get to a team that there really aren't any factors to talk about. I would say, sorry. Washington Wizards. Will you be better than the Brooklyn Nets? I don't know. I don't know. What's the. The name of our bet later on in the season where we bet on the Nut Dust Bowl? Yes. The team that's gotta stay out of the. This cellar. It's the Wizards. It's the Nets. In the Eastern Conference, the wizards line is 21 and a half, so higher than that nets. They were 18 and 64 last year. Who wants to start? I'll get. Leave it open to anybody who wants to start about the Washington Wizards.
- [99:10]
C
I'll start this one because maybe it's a little surprising. I think they're doing the right thing here in Washington.
- [99:17]
A
Right.
- [99:17]
C
They're taking baby steps. Definition of baby steps. Because they're all young kids. They basically are all babies. Their rookies played a crazy high percentage of the team's minutes last year. They feature 10 former first round picks on this roster now you got Trey Johnson, number six pick, because they didn't have lottery luck and sort of slid down there. But they went 1567 two years ago, 18 and 64 last year. And I like them to win four more games than they did last year and hit the over. I'm going over here, which I can't believe, I'm saying because I don't think I've ever done that with the Wizards. But I like at least the front office is like valuing all these bites at the apple, like trying to get all these picks they're hoping to hit maybe on one or two of these and have like cornerstone guys. But I just don't think they're like the worst of the worst. Like, I think the Nets are going to actually have a worse record than the Washington Wizards. So I'm going over Trey because I.
- [100:15]
B
Don'T know why, man, they've got the worst best player in the league.
- [100:19]
C
Yeah.
- [100:20]
B
Name their best player. That's the problem.
- [100:24]
C
The Wizards best player there in 25, 26. As a great question, is it Alex Saar? Right column.
- [100:35]
B
Still, I mean, that's the thing. It could be Chris Middleton or C.J. mcCollum. Yeah, they won't be on the team at the end of the year. No, it could be Alex Sar, could be Bilali, maybe they both struggled in Euro Basket. They've taken a lot of bites at the apple. None of them delicious yet some of them.
- [100:51]
A
Okay, okay.
- [100:53]
B
The pick is top eight protected. I think they're going to keep it. I think the reason that this over under is a win higher than the Nets is because they do have better vets right now in Middleton and McCollum. CJ McCollum has scored 20 plus points per game for like 10 straight seasons. A crazy run for that guy, but been doing it mostly in obscurity. He's probably approaching 20 points per game. Easily, easily on this team. But I do think the Wizards will be the second worst team in the Eastern Conference. I'm still going under though. I think they win like 20, which would be an improvement over the past two years. It's bad when you win 18 games and that's an improvement.
- [101:33]
A
Yeah, it's hard to see them winning a bunch of games. I'm debating, yeah. Are they going to win more than the Brooklyn Nets?
- [101:39]
B
Can they win enough before they trade the vets to get the over? Because that's what the Nets did last year.
- [101:44]
A
Year. Yeah. They don't have young guys that are going to do enough in Keshawn George Alexar, Bob Carrington. It could be Cam Whitmore time getting out of Houston to try a more of a lead role, but I don't see it either. But a lot Cool. Bali is injured to start the season. There's a Canadian. Will Riley's going to help out, but not enough guys, I think. I think that line is too high. I can't. I can't wait. I can't wait till it comes down to the nut Dust Bowl. Nets or Wizards at the end of the year. It's going to be a part of it.
- [102:20]
C
Well, I guess I get the Wizards by default. You guys. Sounds like you guys are taking the under.
- [102:26]
B
You might want the Jazz. The Jazz will be challenging for worst team in the league for sure.
- [102:31]
A
Back. Back in the nut Dust bowl. The Utah Jazz. All right, that's it. All 15 teams over, under. Did we go 100 minutes so far talking about the.
- [102:43]
B
We're. We're very close to right at 100 right now.
- [102:46]
A
I got 102. Oh, nice. Yeah. All right, so what are your three Eastern Conference over under locks? Trey start with you. Give us your three, please.
- [102:54]
B
Okay, I'll take two overs for locks to begin with. The Knicks over 53 and a half. I think they will have the best right record in the Eastern Conference. Over 55 wins, I assume for the Knicks. I'm also going with the Orlando Magic. Over 50 and a half wins should also finish top three in the Eastern Conference. Wouldn't surprise me if they surpass the Cavs. So give me the over on the Knicks and the magic 53 and a half and 50 and a half respectively. I will take one other under and that's going to be the 76ers under 43 and a half. Not a lot of confidence in this one, but. But you can do okay betting against the 76ers. And that's what I would do. Under 43 and a half for Philadelphia.
- [103:38]
A
All right, SK, what are your three locks?
- [103:42]
C
Yeah, I'm doing some quick typing over here because incredibly, Trey and I had some of our locks the same, so I wanted to switch at least one of them, which I just did. I'm going over, over, over this year. Red rover, red rover, we're going over. I want the Magic. So that's where I agree with Trey. 50 and a half. I like it. That's one of my locks. I already said the Bucks. I believe in Giannis. MVP, Giannis 42 and a half. That's enough for me. And then I'm gonna. I. I agree with your Sixers one trey. I was gonna take them as an under, but I will swerve just for fun here. And I'm gonna take the Miami Heat over 37 and a half, which still feels like a weird line to me. So I'm going over Orlando, Milwaukee, Miami, Triple M with the Magic. Magic, Milwaukee.
- [104:33]
A
My three. I also agree on the Knicks over 53 and a half. Just too good. Getting better. I'm gonna take the Bulls as an overlock at 32 and a half. I do think it's important that in March and April they got something to play for. They will be playing for that plan, getting those few extra wins. Wins. They can do that. And I'm locking the under on the Charlotte Hornets. Man, this is a bit spiteful because I locked them the other direction last year and I was banking on Lamelo. Like a lot of people. Yeah, it's just hard to see. It's. It's a low number in 26 and a half because, yes, they could win 27 or 28 games, but it's hard to see with that roster. So my next. My Bulls overs and my Hornets as an under. Some fun stuff. All right.
- [105:25]
C
Nine zero. Or wait. No, we had some duplicates. Never mind.
- [105:31]
A
I think it's a 7 070.
- [105:33]
C
Yeah, perfect.
- [105:34]
A
We'll do it. We'll share this on our socials. Obviously, we got a new logo out there as well. I didn't mention that during our show. A lot of things changing around here here. We'll be back on Wednesday for the over Under Western Conference. 15 teams to debate there. Actually, I got to do the math on those because it did the math. Like a huge nerd on these Eastern Conference over under totals because there's 1230 games in an NBA season. So if the wins are even for each conference, it's 615 wins for each side. But the over unders totaled to like 597 or 598 in the Eastern Conference. Not a lot of respect for the Eastern Conference. Seems. I wonder if the Western Conference makes up for that. Like if it's, you know, 633 or whatever. Just interested in these numbers. Love these numbers.
- [106:27]
B
Hey, it pays off to do the math.
- [106:28]
A
Yeah, I guess that's what's happening that the Eastern Conference just pegged to be bad. But we will get into the Western Conference on Wednesday. For now, Clipper Bros. You heard it here first.
- [106:42]
B
Have a great time. Turn up. Love you guys. Awesome. Me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for joining us. We're back Wednesday it's preseason.
- [106:54]
A
We getting our get our legs under us.