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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human. With VRBO's last minute deals, you can save over $50 on your spring getaway. So whether it's a mountain escape city break or a week at the beach, there's still time to get great discounts. Book your next day now. Average savings $72 select homes only on the Serving Pancakes Podcast Conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, and how long have we been best friends?
- [00:27]
B
Since the day we met.
- [00:28]
A
As the League1 volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no to tune in. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, serving Pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Open your free iHeartradio app search serving pancakes and listen. Now presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
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C
Peace to the planet Charlemagne. Tha God here.
- [00:57]
D
And listen. We are back.
- [00:58]
C
The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard. Yeah, in the full lineup is Nuts. We got the Grits and Eggs podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. Don't call me White Girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie. With Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King and yes, Drink champs will be in the building. Plus, you know we gonna have a lot of guests, so you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace, the picture podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours@black.com podcast festival. Don't play yourself. Okay, pull up.
- [01:44]
E
Ready for a different take on Formula one? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:20]
B
Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the no Dunks podcast presented by FanDuel. It's Tuesday, April 7th, 2026. I'm JD Skeets here in the classic factory along with my super producer, J.D.
- [02:32]
A
hello.
- [02:33]
B
There he is. Here we are. Hello to everybody joining us on YouTube. Hit the like button. Subscribe podcast listeners. Five star ratings and reviews. Friend week continues here at no dunks. And my friend today is riding high thanks to his Michigan Wolverines winning the natty last night. It's NBA national writer Ben Gulliver. Good morning, Ben, and congrats to you.
- [02:55]
D
Oh, well, thank you very much. Ao. You know, a nice little a yo go blue. Maybe to Trey Kirby somewhere on vacation if he's listening. What a time to be alive. First championship for the Wolverines since 1989 and I celebrated. I think you'll appreciate this because I know you're a Jersey guy. I celebrated last night.
- [03:12]
B
Wow.
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D
Jalen Rose, throwback, 1991, 1992. They didn't get it done in the championship game, but the Wolverines did last night against Yukon. So it's, it's a good day to be a Michigan fan.
- [03:24]
B
That's fantastic. We'll get into that game a little bit more in a second. But before we do, Ben, I wanted you to grade my most recent magnet that I acquired on my.
- [03:35]
D
Bring it on.
- [03:36]
B
Yes. And I have a photo here for you and everybody joining us on YouTube. It's the one square in the middle there. It's Laconte Lodge from the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I was just there with a couple of buddies a couple weeks ago. What do you think? How did I do? Now I'm a one place, one magnet man. Unlike yourself. But what do you think of this one?
- [03:57]
D
Look, that's a really solid magnet. Great color scheme. It takes you there. I can imagine looking at it, I'm going to go probably 4 out of 5. I do like the crazier ones. I'm looking at the magnet directly to the right.
- [04:08]
B
Yep.
- [04:09]
D
With the bird with the Guinness. That's a five magnet. Oh, wow. You need the goofiest ones possible. So you did. You did well. You played it safe. There's no harm in that. But were there any wilder options at the Great Smoky Mountains? I've never been.
- [04:23]
B
Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Now, I actually got that magnet, I'm not kidding, from the lodge, which is the highest guest lodge in the eastern United States. We climbed to that thing, 6,500ft, something like that. So at the summit there they have this place. You can actually rent out these places. We didn't know it when we went out there, but not a lot of options when it came to the Magnets. And I thought that was the best one. But I. I hear you on the four out of five, maybe even a three out of five. They didn't have a lot for me to pick.
- [04:51]
D
Well, I mean, it sounds like you got up there and then you realized you had to turn around instead of just sleeping the night. I mean, that sounds like a. A challenging day. All right. Need to do a little better planning there, but that's all right.
- [05:02]
B
We didn't do a lot of planning at all. My buddy Grish was in charge of planning. We were ill prepared. Yeah.
- [05:07]
D
Yeah. Well, so one key I would say is sometimes the lodges, you know, they're going to keep a certain image, right? They're going to have a certain way they want to project themselves. Sometimes you got to go to the gas stations or the places off the side of the road that, you know, the. The crazier convenience store type places. If you really want the wild and wacky magnets, just consider it for next time. All right?
- [05:27]
B
Yeah, that's fair. I think I just, like, I'm going to get it here because I am at the top of a mountain, and that's pretty wild. Cool place to get a magnet, you know, So I. I hear you, though. I'm going to take it all under consideration next time we do it. But this is the one national park you haven't been to, Is that right? The.
- [05:42]
D
The smoky out of the top 10, it's the only one, and it's number one by far because it's so well located. I think, you know, people down there in the southeast United States realize it's not that far from a lot of places people live, which is one of the big hangups when you're looking at, like, which are the most national parks. Some of them, you got to fly a long distance. You got to drive after that. And it gets trickier. So because I'm over here on the west coast, I've never made it, but it's been on my bucket list for like 15 to 18 years, which is pretty sad. I got to knock it off. The thing is, I want to go during fall foliage season because I hear that's the best. And unfortunately, basketball season tends to run into fall foliage season, so haven't been able to make it happen. But maybe soon.
- [06:20]
B
Yeah, that's why we had to do it here in the spring. And that's what everybody was saying, you got to come back in the fall. And I was like, well, I'll never be back in the fall because of my job. But I'm sure it's amazing. The next spot on our list is the Badlands, which I assume you've been to.
- [06:33]
D
Yeah, yeah. I mean, all these people on Artemis, you know, paying all this money to go to the moon. You could just go to South Dakota, bro. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. You know, I mean, it's pretty awesome. It. It's very. I mean, I'm joking, but there is a real moon vibe to it. It feels like it's a different planet. The other thing they have out there, though, I want to say they're gophers. They're gopher like animals. And they were just everywhere. I mean, just swarming. So, you know, be on the lookout for that. Feels a little like Caddyshack there.
- [07:01]
B
Oh, okay. All right. Well, let's get into some basketball here. We had a wedgie last night. Number 70, Ben on the season. Remember when we celebrated 50 wedgies in a season? We're at 70 after Desmond Bain stuck this sort of little floater there in Orlando. You know, we've set the all time record. The pace says 76 on wedgie tracker.com we want to beat Barry Bonds home run record and I think it's in play because we do count wedgies during the playoffs. But what a magical season.
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D
Ben, I love that this is your legacy. So many broadcasts now, even in arenas, I hear people use the phrase wedgie. There's no question that, you know, it's all your influence. I also wonder though, if future generations are going to look back at your wedgie counters and say this is the clearest evidence ever of like the juice ball era in the NBA. You know, like all these offensive stats, triple double averages, bam. Adebayo is 83 points. That was happening in the increased wedgie era. Can we really take that seriously? You know, I just think it's something that we should all consider.
- [08:02]
B
I think you're right. Can I get your opinion on something that Brian Scalabrini recently said on a, on a broadcast? He thinks wedgies should be live ball. Like it sticks and then guys jump up and first to get it and it's in play and not do a jump ball at half your thoughts?
- [08:18]
D
It's an interesting take. I prefer just the game. Everyone in the arena stopping to honor you guys with someone yelling wedgie and then we all have to jump ball. I mean, I prefer it that way. Whatever is better for the show and your reputation. You know, I'm a little biased on that one, but you know, it kind of it's similar. I guess what his argument is is to like the goaltending stuff. Right. We're just like, keep playing. Yeah, this is the Wemby era. We got to be careful with that kind of thing. Right. I mean, he's a foot taller than everybody. He can, you know, pick the wedgie one handed out and dunk it. I don'. Know, it feels like maybe an unfair advantage.
- [08:52]
B
Right, okay, good point. That's why we have you on here. You're always thinking of different angles. Let's quickly talk about that national championship game. Wolverines came into the game last night as the first team to crack 90 points in five straight tournament blowouts. Like, they were rolling. Their offense was humming. They didn't hit 70, they didn't hit wedgie numbers last night. On Monday, Michigan shot 38% from the field and 2 for 15 from deep, but they won 69 to 63 over Yukon. The AP Ben wrote this game had a 1950s feel to it, which I know I was like, damn, sort of quite a shot there from the AP report. But yeah, again, congrats to you and any, any takeaways from the win.
- [09:36]
D
Well, look, I think good, good teams can win games playing the way they want to play. Great teams can win games playing the way that the other team wants to play. Right. They can kind of beat you at your own game. The entire time the commentators were saying, this is, they're trying to turn this into a Big east game. You know, this is being played at UConn's face. And I thought, you know, Michigan's defense was arguably the best in the country all season long, and they won that game with defense. And so I was kind of questioning, is this a Big east game or are we just going to call this a Big Ten game? I mean, if they're the best defense, we got to rebrand this thing. I was really impressed by, you know, their focus and also Dusty Mays in Game Adjustments. I just thought he had his finger on the pulse this entire game. You know, you go back to when Duke blew that huge lead against UConn, you know, a week or two ago. And, you know, there was some of that potentially developing late where the guy, you know, kisses in the three pointer off the glass and Michigan has some struggles inbounding it. And Dusty May took the time out, which John Shire didn't. He got them all organized. It felt like anytime one of UConn's shooters got hot, he made a defensive adjustment to kind of turn that guy's water off. I thought Their game plan inside defensively was really good. Allowing Mara to just single cover UConn's, you know, best big guy rather than trying to double him in the post. And that, you know, limited UConn's three point shooting as well. So you just put it all together. I thought he was incredibly well prepared. He reacted well in the high stress moments, and he brought the victory home in a way that obviously Duke didn't. With their collapse, you know, a week or two ago, it felt like the right team won. You know, they were the better team. They didn't play very well offensively at all, but they were able to win a defensive battle because they were a very complete and experienced team.
- [11:19]
B
Yes. So Ben Gulliver, riding high. Ben Lyons, riding high. Trey Kirby, riding high. Every Wolves fan or Wolverines fan, excuse me, you know, pretty pumped here. I couldn't believe it's their first title since 89. That seems like so. I mean, I don't follow college sports all that closely, but that's weird to me.
- [11:35]
D
I can. Because you go back to some of these national championship games. I mean, remember, there's been some disasters along the way. The Fab Five made it two years in a row. They lost the national championship game twice. Of course, you have the. The curse of the timeout from Chris Weber, and then, you know, you had a long run of just being good but not great. You know, sort of like the NBA team that gets to the first round, but they go out. That was kind of their deal for a while. You know, even their recent national title game appearances, which they lost, like the two in the last decade or so. And I wouldn't say they were fluky, but they were. Everything kind of came together. They didn't have the best talent, you know, and we also have to look back at the last 25 years or so, and the Big Tens have been slacking. You know, until this year, it was all about the SEC and Calipari and of course the acc. I mean, those are really the powerhouse conferences. And so there was a little bit of a regional deal thing going on as well that they were working against. But much like the football program back in 2023, Michigan basketball here has been restored to glory for the first time in a long time.
- [12:34]
B
And congrats to Adam Patterson for winning the no Dunks NCAA Tournament Classic. Our pool that we had up on cbs, he beat our bracket. Yeah, we finished second overall. Us dummies here at no Dunks. Trey Kirby, too. That was the name of our bracket. Trey couldn't Figure out how to change it to our, you know, no dunks team bracket, but tas, Trey and myself. A little help from JD If I remember correctly, too finishing second to Adam. And look at that. Our guy, Eshua Kid. He's gonna join me on the podcast tomorrow. He finished third. What is going on here? How'd you do, Ben?
- [13:11]
D
That's beautiful. Yeah, I did pretty well because I also picked Michigan. Surprise, surprise that I picked Michigan. So my bracket did pretty well. I have a question, though. They said Trey Kirby, too, and I know he couldn't change the name. Was there a trade Kirby one bracket as well? You know how many entries are there? Because I'm going to have to put an asterisk if you had more than one bracket. Skeets, I'm not going to let you have this victory lap if you put in more than one entry.
- [13:35]
B
Ben, I just told you, I'm a one place, one magnet type of guy. You know, I'm a one bracket type of guy. I don't know if maybe Trey Kirby one was his own personal one and then the Trey Kirby two was the one we did together. I'm not actually sure, but I'm a one bracket only type of guy for sure.
- [13:50]
D
Well, I didn't mean to question your character.
- [13:52]
B
I know. Jesus, man. I also hung up on you. All right. The Chicago Bulls, man, where's TK when we need them? Wolverines win the title. And the Bulls did something here. They parted ways with Executive VP of Basketball Operations Arturis Carnishevus and General Manager Mark Eversley. This was the team announcing this yesterday. The two joined the organization in 2020. And they had much success? Oh, yes. They won one playoff game. I think they had one winning season and one playoff game victory under their watch. And so these two are out front office. Shake up your reactions to this news yesterday, Ben.
- [14:30]
D
Well, the statement from Michael Reinsdorf just kind of made me chuckle because he opened it with saying, arturis and Mark have led with a deep commitment to the Chicago Bulls. So that's pretty much all he could bring himself to say. They tried, man. They tried. You know, they tried something. And then he went on to say, hey, we're going to try to get the Bulls back into, you know, a championship mentality, essentially, you know, we're trying to compete at the highest level and contend for championships. And I was starting to think, why should we, any of us believe him with that part of the statement? Right? It's like, what indication over the last, I don't know, 20 something years of bulls, you know, ownership decisions and front office decisions puts you in a mindset where, like, oh, yeah, they're going to change their GM and they're immediately going to be back at the top of the Eastern Conference, just like the glory days of the 1990s. I mean, you just don't sense with this group, they don't feel like they're trying to contend for championships. They feel like they're trying to contend for playing tournament victories. Right? Like, that seems like their goal. But you go back and you look at our tourists, man, it is so bleak. If you just run down the draft picks that he made during his tenure, like, it's so bad. And that's even before you get to like, the whole DeMar DeRozan experience, the Zach Levine experience, the Vucevic trade. All these deals were like, kind of obviously not great at the time. You put those two things together. If you're making bad trades and bad signings and you're not doing anything in the draft, good luck, your clock is ticking. And that's why those guys are out.
- [15:51]
B
Yeah, it's a good point. He made all these sort of bold deals, especially the vouch one when he sort of first got there. And then they added Lonzo Ball and they did add Caruso and demarta Rosen. And so they were making moves and at times looked like they had turned a page. Then injuries would hit them and they'd sort of go back to the playing spot. But then not being able to get anything of value really for any of these guys that they traded away. Levine, DeRozan, Vuch, ball. the deadline here. Yeah, I was going to say at the deadline here, they flipped a large portion of their roster. Didn't get a whole lot back. On one hand, this is an enticing front office position, either the VP of Basketball operations or the gm, because it's like they have a lot of cap space. I think it's like 60 million, maybe 65 million in cap space. They have control of all their first round draft picks. They have a bunch of second round draft picks. That's what it was. A lot of stuff coming back to them. But then you're like, well, is it all that enticing, though? Because the organization's reported desire is to hold on to Billy Donovan. So whoever steps into these roles, you may not have an option of, like, getting your own coach, which usually happens right when these guys take over these jobs. So it's like. And there's, you know, these reports that's like, well, Billy didn't want to, like, lean into the tank or being bad and like, they could never get on the same page. So I don't know. You got Reinsdorf as your owner, too. It's like, yeah, is he going to be meddling and stuff like that? It's. On one hand, it looks good. On the other hand, I'm like, well, these key players are still there, especially the owner. And then Billy Donovan.
- [17:18]
D
Yeah, well, let's also add. I mean, they got Boozelis. That's a chip. You know, they got a piece here, I think, to be building around. I would be somewhat excited about his future if I was someone stepping into this job. You know, it's not like the cupboard is completely bare, but I think it does come back to the ownership. Like you're describing. How many groups have we seen come in with big, big, big money saying we're going to pull out every possible stop to win? Right. I mean, the warriors, the Clippers, the list goes on. And you look at this Bulls ownership group, that is just not the vibe.
- [17:47]
B
Right?
- [17:47]
D
I mean, even when they hired our tourists, the idea was, well, you know, he's probably going to be relatively inexpensive because it's his first time ever getting the job. It doesn't feel like this is an organization that's going to pull out all the stop and pay the second apron and do what it takes to get up there with the Celtics. And. And so I think if you are a candidate, you're. You're looking a little bit askance at these guys. You're saying, well, what are you guys really about? What really is the goal? You know, if I'm a GM candidate and I'm reading Reinsdorf statement about going to a championship level, I don't know if I buy. You know, I think it sounds like lip service, doesn't it?
- [18:17]
B
Yeah, for sure. And like, you brought up the draft under sort of their watch there off to a rough start when they drafted Patrick Williams with the number four pick in 2020, gave him the huge contract. He's just never lived up to it. They took Jalen Terry much later in the draft, but at 18th, there were some other quality players behind him. Boozelis is a good one in 2024. He looks like a piece, looks like a keeper. And then they finally, this last one selected the young French kid in Noah Sengue, and like, you know, he got injured. We barely saw him. It's sort of, who knows? He's only 19, so, you know, it could turn into a good player. But, yeah, it's not amazing. Now, IO was one of these picks in the second round, and he was a great player. Of course they traded him. So we'll see who comes in.
- [19:00]
D
You know, they got Gaffer, too, and he gets traded out. You know, it's like. So let me ask you, though, did this happen because the Jade Nivey situation is. It was. I mean, is it the straw that broke the camel's back? Is it a coincidence that it's only a couple days after that blew up? Because that felt like total incompetence. Right. Where you're trading for a guy who is just, you know, completely disconnected from what you expect of an NBA player.
- [19:23]
B
I think, yeah, to answer your question, I had to have played a part. Maybe this whole rumor that Billy Donovan was looking at the UNC job as well. And then that doesn't happen because they go Michael Malone. And does that have, like, an impact on, like, well, he's still here. Well, let's get rid of the front office. Like, was it going to be one of the other type of thing if they weren't on the same page like they talked about? Maybe that played a part. But look, overall, it's just been. It's amazing it lasted this long. Like one one playoff game, one win over the Bucks, if I remember correctly, the second game, it was a one one series. Oh, my God. I mean, it's. It's for a huge, huge metropolitan, one of the biggest cities in North America with obviously the cachet of the 90s and the Bulls and Jordan, all that. Like, it's embarrassing that they've been this mid for so long. That's the worst thing. They're just in the middle of the. Of the league. The worst spot you can be over this last five or six years.
- [20:14]
D
And they're the biggest sleeping giant in the NBA, right. Like, if they ever actually did have premier ownership, a premier front office, like, imagine, you know, the potential there. I mean, traveling the world, every corner you go to, you see Bulls gear still, I mean, all these years later, and I know they're not Noah Senge fans, you know, they're Michael Jordan fans. Right, Right. It is funny, though, like, what? I always try to look at it from the other perspective, like, you know, in defense of our tourists. How awkward are his annual reviews with ownership? It's like, what did you do well this year? Like, what would you say were your high points of the last few years in this tenure? I mean, you went through no playoff success, no good draft picks, you know, a whole bunch of trades where they had to tuck their tail between their legs, getting back a fraction of the price that they, you know, sent out. I don't know what he hangs his hat on, you know. And so I think at that point it's probably smart they move forward. If you don't really have an argument to keep a guy, it's probably time to go.
- [21:07]
B
Yep. So both of them out and we'll see which direction they go. A lot of, like, former Bulls players in some cases, but NBA players are being like, bandied around here as at least a gm. I saw Kyle Korver's name coming. I was seeing somebody say Masayu Giri, obviously, but he just took a job with the Tempo, the new WNBA team. So I don't see that happening. But we'll see where they go. Let's get into the meat of today's podcast and the big reason I wanted to have you on, because you do sort of follow the whole league better than most. And I wanted you to help us ask and maybe tackle a question about each of the playoff teams, the six that we know in each conference. Now in the Eastern Conference, it changes nightly. When you get to that six spot right now, well, it's my Raptors, unbelievably, they're in the sixth spot. But let's start in the Western Conference. One question about each playoff team. Ben, you're going to sort of lead this. You've put some thought into it. We'll start with the number one seed, Oklahoma City Thunder, 62 and 16. Right now, what's the big question to you in them trying to defend their title?
- [22:13]
D
Well, look, obviously they've had health issues all season long, right? I mean, guys in and out of the lineups. But when you're starting to see some of these other teams fall to pieces with key players going down, it's almost a question of, well, maybe they got their stuff out of the way early and they're going to be in a good shape now for a nice run if the Lakers are in trouble and Anthony Edwards is ailing and so forth. Right. But the big question I have because of all that juggling lineup situation, how are they going to handle that sidekick role for Shea? I mean, we know Shea's going to have the basketball taking every clutch shot. He's done it all season long. I have him as the MVP right now. But last year that was just Jalen Williams to a tee in the playoffs. How many big shots did he hit? How many big moments did he have? You know, playmaking. And I just personally Given his health, track record and how he's been in and out this season, I just don't trust him to be able to sustain that same burden that he had last year and to play into that same role. And so does it wind up being a by committee approach where you ask a little bit more from Chet, maybe you ask a little bit more from AJ Mitchell or does somebody else step up? Because typically in these playoff series, it's a pretty clear pecking order, right? Like, you know who the main guy is and then you know who the number two guy is and it goes down from there. And it worked very well for Oklahoma City last year. Having J Dub in that clear cut number two role. I just wonder, how do you think it's going to shake out by the end of it? Let's say they do win the championship and they go back to back. Who are we looking back at as like that clear cut number two sidekick for Shea, or is it a case where Shay just has to do everything and you know, somehow he's capable of doing it? What do you think?
- [23:46]
B
Yeah, like really what you're getting at, and it's something I know we've talked about a little bit on the show before, is like, can they win a title again without Jalen Williams? As like that all NBA level guy that had big games like you said, that sort of got overlooked probably in their championship run because of just Shay and his consistency. But he saved his ass a couple times and saved the team a couple times. Can they do it without him? Like, I don't know, they're so deep that you're like, yeah, why couldn't, you know, Chet have the monster game here or obviously, oh, you know, A.J. mitchell have the game here or a big dork game or Caruso game where the threes are falling. Makes sense. But you like to have the consistency of a number two guy. I'm not convinced they can without Jalen Williams coming through and looking healthy. Now he's returned. He's playing here over the last, what, six games or so. They're limited in his minutes, so they're just trying to keep him fresh or at least like ramp him up a little bit, but get him going for the postseason. But they've been quiet games. Like, you know, he hasn't jumped off the page to you because again, I think they're just slow playing it. Hopefully they've just been so cautious with him and let these other guys eat and get reps and stuff like that, and then he gets a little unleashed with more minutes and just like a bit more with the playoff scheduling and stuff like that helping you at rest too, but I'm sort of with you. I don't think they can do. I don't think they can defend in this loaded west without some big J Dub games like coming through. And I don't think he has to do it night in, night out. But there's going to have to be a couple games where he sort of does save them when the. The attention and they just take away Shea. So I. I guess I. It's a tough one because it's like how much have they just held him back? I mean, he came back from the injury, then he re. Re injured it and then they took him out again for a long, long time, but they just kept winning.
- [25:34]
D
The coolest part is like his spirit seemed to be in a good place. He's been locked in with the team all year even though he's been in and out. So you love that. The best answer for who Shai's sidekick is is the same guy who it was last year. Just like you're saying Jalen Williams. But I just don't trust it. Right, Right. One guy I would highlight and circle, who I would like to see more from I think is Chad Holmgren. I think he's got underutilized offensive talent in Oklahoma City. I think his numbers would be significantly bigger if he was on a different team. I'm not saying he's going to put up Wemby type numbers, but there's a lot of offensive game there that he just doesn't really get the chance to explore and to experiment with because they're so disciplined and team focused. I think, you know, his shot making from the mid range. Right. His ability to create a shot off the dribble is stuff that we didn't see a ton in last year's playoffs that I think could come in handy for Oklahoma City, especially in certain matchups as they go through this year's playoffs. So if it's not J Dub, I would love to see a more empowered Chad and just to see where he could take things. Like let's remember, you know, he was the number two pick for a reason. Right. He's coming in as the top high school prospect. It's not just for the shot blocking. It was because people thought he had a little bit of KD to his offensive game. So I would love to see him get a little bit of a looser leash. But then in terms of the playmaking and ball handling stuff, it probably does fall to A.J. mitchell. Right. I mean, he's the other guy. Where they didn't hardly get anything from him in last year's playoffs, where they could get a real boost from him potentially. But I just don't think he's quite good enough to be a number two. Like that's asking too much. Right. So, yeah, it comes back to Jalen Williams is the X factor. Yeah.
- [27:02]
B
My final thought on Chad Holmgren. I hear what you're saying, but I'm like, torn with him. It's like you said. Yeah. There were some comparisons to kd. Can he show us, like, glimpses of that? And maybe on his best day he can. But although also I see a lot of like Evan Mobley with Chet Holmgren. It's like, hey, man, where, where are you? Where's the impact now? You're great defensively, just like Mobley. You're going to hold it down on that end. But yeah, every once in a while I'd like to see a little bit more. Is that the coaching? Is that the game plan or is that you just sort of like, as a go get it a little bit more? I don't know. I think he has a little bit more of like a dog and edge than Mobley, but I'm. Sometimes I feel like he is a lot like Evan. So we'll see. Look, they're the defending champs here, they're the favorites, but not going to be easy as we've seen a couple of these, you know, really fun games against some of these awesome teams in the West.
- [27:49]
D
To your point, last year during the playoffs, chad never had 25 in a game and I think he was held under 10 points four times in the playoffs last year. So, like, I don't know if they have the margin for the Chet no shows this year without Jalen Williams being rock solid. Yeah. I also love how getting compared to Evan Mobley now has become like the go to slander. Like, it's been a tough season for him. I. I think, you know, I saw him here in LA a week or two ago and it was like, did he play? I mean, he was out there, but I don't know if he was playing. It was a pretty rough game. So I, I think Chet has a better ball handling ability than Mobley, better shot creation, better shooting ability than Mobley. That's what I'm banking on. But I'm not guaranteeing that's going to work. You know, it's more like I just kind of want to see it.
- [28:27]
B
Yep.
- [28:28]
A
Early birds always rise to the occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets you closer to the action. So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO and save over $120. Rise and shine. Average savings $141. Select homes only on the Serving Pancakes Podcast Conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends for? Since the day we met. As the League1 volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. We really are like yin and yang, vodka and tequila. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Today we have Logan Lednecki.
- [29:08]
B
I feel like our fan base in
- [29:10]
A
general is very connected.
- [29:12]
B
Just like a comforting feeling getting to play at home.
- [29:15]
A
Whether you're following the final push of Love Season or just love the game, serving Pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Jordan Thompson had that microphone out. God forbid we make mistakes or cussed
- [29:28]
D
at our coach like one time or two times.
- [29:31]
A
Open your free iHeartRadio app search serving Pancakes and listen. Now this has been Serving Pancakes and we'll catch you on the flip side. Okay? Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [29:45]
E
Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored podcast pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid,
- [29:59]
D
Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun Cancer Moon. Wouldn't you know it? Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn Sun,
- [30:05]
E
Cancer Moon, the story of the sport's most consequential driver. Strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Ricardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some. Some combination of both?
- [30:22]
A
He started getting all this attention and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than this, I'm better.
- [30:29]
E
And plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [30:44]
B
All right, let's go to the number two seed in the West, San Antonio spurs at 60 and 19. They won their 60th game last night. Now wembanya was ruled out for the second half of the spurs win over the 76ers. Bruised left rib, I guess, is what they're saying. He had a little collision with Paul George around the half court line. He left, he came back, you know, he gave it a go and then he was sort of grabbing at it, so they took him out. Now we just gotta see if he'll play one more game. Ben. Oh, the joy of the 65 game threshold to, to quote John Hollinger, Wemby will either be a unanimous defensive player of the year winner or receive zero votes, depending on whether he's cleared to play 15 minutes in a meaningless season finale on Sunday. But I think he will. I mean, I don't think it's that severe. I think he'll play 15 minutes or 20 minutes, whatever in one of these final games. But the spurs, your big question with them.
- [31:41]
D
Well, it has to do with Wemby and how they've been bubble wrapping him. Right. I mean, they've been very careful with him really the last couple of seasons, going back to his rookie year. Even where they would give him extra time to come back from injuries. They're managing these minutes very carefully to kind of keep him in the awards race like you're describing. And so the question now is what happens when the bubble wraps off in the playoffs? How does he hold up? I think from a physical standpoint, but then also just a conditioning and effort level standpoint. I listened to you guys talk yesterday, great points about how in overtime against Denver, in that great game against Joker, Webby was starting to run out of gas a little bit, right? And it was Joker who kind of pushed to the finish. And I think Joker had seven and ott. I think Wemby only had two points and one rebound. Right. And so why is the younger guy who's, you know, physically fit, you know, skinny as could be, why is he the guy who's running out of gas? Well, it's because he hasn't had to play, you know, 35, 40 minutes very often this season. You get into the playoffs, you know, the bubble wrap comes off, you know, your minute load goes up. The minutes you're playing are going to be even more demanding. Right? And so how does that play out over the course of multiple series when you know he's going to be the focus of other teams game plans, Right. When you know his coaches are going to be expecting him to cover up for every everybody defensively like he always does. It's an exhausting life. And so I Just wonder, you know, his first taste of it, is he completely ready? I'd also point out this is a guy who doesn't always make the most incredible first impression. Right. Like in summer league, his first game was a little bit of a dud. His NBA debut was not exactly like he's taking over the world from day one. But then he recalibrates. He thinks he's that analytical guy, he gets himself comfortable and then he dominates. Right?
- [33:20]
B
Yeah.
- [33:21]
D
And so I wonder, is there going to be an adjustment period for him mentally as he gets into the playoffs as well where he's, you know, dealing with a new rotation maybe, you know, in terms of how many minutes he's playing. He's also dealing with this newfound pressure. How ready is he going to be in that moment?
- [33:34]
B
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the word pressure there. I thought you were going to go with maybe the low hanging fruit of just like lack of experience with this spurs team. You know, Fox has played in a seven game series. Harrison Barnes obviously with the warriors. But, but outside of those two guys, Wemby included, this is new, this, this idea of like the more intense playoffs, sort of the scheduling and pace of the playoffs and teams being able to game plan against you, way more focused and what they're trying to take away. Because you know, Castle, as much as we love them, obviously Harper as a rook and some of these other young guys, they haven't been here and haven't done this. But you went with the Wemby angle because, you know, it really does all rely on him. Yeah.
- [34:16]
D
I look at him and them, it's like if he's playing to his capabilities, he can cover up so many flaws. Right. Like they're playing these lineups now where it's like one giant and four smalls. Right. And you, they don't feel small because he's able to just literally, you know, block every shot, contest every shot, own the pain. And so I think he can cover up a lot of their flaws. I wanted to ask you, in that Denver game against San Antonio, did they look ready for primetime? I mean, I know they're a young team, but it's like, like Harper doesn't look shook to me in these moments. Obviously Castle is just an absolute monster two ways right now. Fox, you know, maybe even the confident to a fault sometimes. Right. Like he's not a shrinking violet. So I guess I think they're ready, you know, and they've, they've been playing so well for so long this season. They've gotten some Big tests against Oklahoma City and Denver. I feel like the group is ready. The question to me is how long can we be sustained in these really big moments with the high pressure, with the high intensity, with the high minute loads. Can he maintain his efficiency and his impact?
- [35:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it was Stan Van Gundy. You brought it up multiple times. What you're saying, it's like this feels like a playoff game. It did. If you watch that Saturday matinee and they were not backing down, they did not look like the, the lights were too bright at all. I 100% agree with you. And that's, you know, you're going to take on the, the vibe of your leaders, Wemby and, and Castle. Really. I mean, that guy is just not shook at all. Like, he seems like built. He looks like a 16 win SOR. That Draymond. 16 win team or player. I should say that Draymond Green is always talking about, like, I'm, I'm more convinced he's one of those guys than he is like an 82 game player. So, yeah, it's a good point. They. They, you know, but then, you know, they ha. You got to do it. I mean, you got to sort of take your lumps and, and you're going to see like, just how physical some of these teams are going to be with Wemby, like in trying to chop him down, get up under him, you know, Aaron Gordon, maybe, you know, we made a short the other day yesterday, like joking a little bit with the title, but is he the Wemby stopper? A little tongue in cheek because I don't think anyone can actually slow it and look at the game he had. But if you're building like the prototype defensive player that I would put on Wemby to try and contain him, it would look a lot like Aaron Gordon. His size, his athleticism, his physicality, his smarts. You know, obviously him having played in a lot of these postseason games and runs before. So he did a great job and the numbers sort of did bear that. He held him in check. So hopefully we get that matchup in the second round out.
- [36:42]
D
No? Oh, well said. I mean, I, I especially like that you said his smarts. I feel like that is such a key thing. You got to be able to think on Wemby's level, you know, make him think, have counters in mind. And, you know, there aren't very many defense defenders who are physically and mentally capable of making Wemby work. Certainly he's at the very top of the list but, you know, the other thing here, too, is the just the accumulative, you know, challenges of getting through the Western Conference. Like, let's say they get Phoenix in the first round. You know, Dylan Brooks likes to see himself as the Webby stopper, so that could be a challenge. Right. I think they would get through that one okay. But then it's Denver, likely, and then it's Oklahoma City. Right. I mean, that. That's a lot. That is a gauntlet for San Antonio. Whereas if you look at Oklahoma City right now, the bracket is shaping up great for them. The eight seeds should be super weak. Then you're looking at potentially Houston or the Lakers, which you love that. And then you're going to have your big test, probably being safe for the Western Conference finals. And so. So, you know, it's a big deal who gets that number one seed this year. And I think Oklahoma City is really going to directly benefit from. From hanging onto it.
- [37:45]
B
Yeah, they still haven't technically wrapped it up. They have a couple games lead here on San Antonio. But I'm with you. It's looking likely that OKC in this final week, they're going to be playing for it still to get that number one seed just for the reasons you just laid out. All right, let's go to the number three seed. It is the Denver Nuggets right now, after winning last night, they came back. I think they were down 16 points in the fourth quarter. You won't believe this. Jokic and Murray brought them back and they beat the Blazers. Aaron Gordon hit some big shots to beat the blazers in overtime. 137, 132. So their ninth straight victory, and again they're into the third spot. What's the big question for you when it comes to the Nuggets?
- [38:22]
D
It's just whether Cam Johnson can handle the bright lights. You know, I think he's the new guy. Right. And we know what you're going to get from Joker in the playoffs. You pretty much know what you're going to get from Murray. Murray. It's not always perfect. There's some fluctuations, but you're going to get good play for Murray. Aaron Gordon is the guy who every coach would want on their team for basically any playoff matchup. Right. So you have a pretty solid known core there. Now, Cam Johnson had some total disappearing acts earlier this season where they're going against Oklahoma City, he's doing absolutely nothing. But you go back to that San Antonio game, he drilled a huge three late in that game to help Denver over the Top, right. So that's the difference right there. Like, if Denver is going to beat the spurs in the series, it's because Cam Johnson is hitting those threes. If he's a shrinking violet, like I was saying earlier about some other guys and just disappearing, they're not going to get through San Antonio. There's just too much athleticism and the Wemby factor. It looks to me like, you know, capable of overwhelming Denver unless they're getting contributions from everybody in that main group. And so that's why I circle Cam Johnson feels like the biggest question mark mark Michael Porter Jr. The guy he's replacing, wasn't always perfect in that role, but, you know, he did bring some scoring, he did bring some rebounding, and he had plenty of experience. You look back at Cam Johnson's playoff track record. He did go to the finals with the Suns one year, but he was in a much smaller role coming off the bench. And then, you know, he didn't really have any meaningful playoff success in Brooklyn, really, because that team got bounced very quickly. So even though he's been around the NBA for a while, he's a vet. I don't think he's really been in this type of pressure cooker where a team's been relying on him so directly. And, you know, his job is not that complicated, just hitting the open shots. Right. So that's why it kind of probably gets into his head a little bit, because you go into a little slump and you feel like you're not helping at all. I know he's dealt with some, you know, mental crisis of confidence, if you want to call it that, at times this season. Does feel like he's turning it around lately. That could be a good omen for Denver as they try to close strong here.
- [40:14]
B
Yeah, I would add to that. Like, it feels like the game plan when you're playing the Nuggets is like, obviously, try and contain Jokic and Murray and let anybody else shoot and beat you. And even that spurs game on Saturday, Christian Brown left wide open to shoot as many threes as he wanted. Now, he did pretty good, I thought, on Saturday, went 5 11. Cam Johnson, though, four of eight as well. Those guys, like, I think that's the thing. They're like. Teams are like, they want Those guys shooting 20 plus three pointers combined in the. If they're starting there and, you know, no Peyton Watson, and he should be back, but he changes the equation. What they give him defensively. But I like Cam here, and I would throw Brown in there, too. Those Guys, they just have to make these teams pay for loading up on trying to take away the 12 action from Jokic and Murray. Like, which is easier said than done. Like, I mean, they have the number one offense in the league. Everybody knows what they're going to do when they get into clutch time. And they still. No one has an answer for those two guys, but the shots are there. They just have to take them with confidence and hit him with consistency. It's good that Cam Johnson is like, at least over these last three or four games, this is. He's playing some of his best basketball all season long. Yeah, it's good timing, I guess.
- [41:22]
D
No, he's turning it up. There's no doubt. And that's exactly what they would want to see. It's funny for me with Christian Brown, like, I have an unhealthy level of trust in him, and maybe it's based off of like one or two finals games against Miami where he came through huge and it was like, oh, this guy's the all time winner. He won in high school, he won in college, now he's winning in the pros. Like, he has that label to him. He just feels rock solid. You know, maybe it is overconfidence that I have in Christian Brown, but, you know, it makes a difference when you've seen a guy do it with his teammates. The fit there is very clean. I mean, theoretically, the fit for Cam Johnson was perfect, too. Right. Like, the role was tailor made for him. And it's just like, come on, man, you got to step up and hit those shots. And so. So I was glad, though, that Denver has had this recent success because it looked for a while there, like, hey, are they going to lose their way? Are we not going to have as many contenders as we thought in the Western Conference? They've really stabilized. And as the Lakers have fallen back because of injuries, the Rockets have, you know, to me, been a little bit of a disappointment. It feels like we have three rock solid teams in the west. You know, between the Thunder, the Spurs
- [42:25]
B
and the Nuggets, those are the three favorites. But let's go to some of the other teams here in the Western conference. The number four seed as of Tuesday morning here, it's the Lakers 50 and 28. And if you're keeping track of like that three, four spot, the Nuggets have the Grizzlies, Thunder and Spurs remaining on their schedule, but they got to finish one game ahead of the Lakers because of the tiebreaker. The Lakers have the Thunder, Warriors, Suns and Jazz so that three, four seeds in play here. But the Lakers, I mean, obviously Luka out right now, though I guess he's getting some special injection over in Spain. I think they're telling us to try and fix the hamstring. And then Austin Reeves is going to be out possibly for a couple of weeks too. What's the Lakers cue?
- [43:10]
D
Well, it's interesting before I get to that, I think the Thunder play both the Nuggets and the Lakers. Is that right?
- [43:15]
B
Yes.
- [43:16]
D
So they could potentially decide who they want to play in the second round, who they want on their side of the bracket. If I'm okc, I mean, you might have to bring up the entire, you know, blue or whatever their chili team is called. You don't have to bring up the entire league because you can't just play the second unit if you're okay. So you might still win the game. Accident, right?
- [43:32]
B
Yeah.
- [43:32]
D
You might bring up the third stringers, the four stringers and, and maybe you tank it against Denver to make sure you, you set up potentially the Lakers on your side of the bracket. I don't know, that'd be something I would think about if I was Mark Dagnald and Sam Presti. But maybe then they don't go for those shenanigans. Yeah. In any event, the question for the Lakers is very simple. Is this a lost season? Like, is it already toast? And I don't want to kick the Lakers fans when they're down. I know they're in mourning after the Luka Doncic injury and the Austin Reeves injury, but how does this get salvaged? Skeets, is there a path for them to win a playoff series and buy time for the Stars? I just not sure I see it. If they can't be Cooper flag in the Dallas Mavericks. I mean, what's the, what's the plan?
- [44:13]
B
I don't see it. And I mean, I think if we have a four or five matchup between the Lakers and Rockets, I think I'm going Rockets in that selection with no Luca and no Austin Reaves, of course, or at least greatly diminished with their health. So no, it does, it feels, it's unfortunate because they were rolling and Lucas suddenly was in the MVP conversation after that incredible march and they were clicking and Redick had sort of his lineup settled and LeBron had settled into the perfect, you know, sort of third string role and it's all gone. It's gone. Poof. Just like that. You know, I jokingly said, do the Lakers need to fire their medical staff after what happened? With Luka, because he was hobbling in the game. I mean, he was like, if you watch the game, you. From the first quarter on, he's grabbing at it, whatever. And then at halftime they look at it and see him like, he's okay to go in a 30 point drubbing. And that's when he makes it even worse. So I think it is a lost season. Is this the end of LeBron on the Lakers too? Like, where do we go from here? Which is wild because they were sort of like starting to convince a lot of people. Oh, do we have a fourth contender here now in the Western Conference? Like, they're not going to be an easy out with those guys. And now losing two of their main scorers, two 20 plus point per game scores. And like basically knocking on 30 or more than 30 with Luca. How do you replace 50, you know, 55 points in a lineup?
- [45:34]
D
No, no kidding. And like, some nights it's 65, right? Some nights it could be 70. I mean, these two guys have been lighting it up and they've been playing really well together. And that's like their entire identity is this incredible offense that they could build around those guards. Now that identity is gone. It's crazy. Skeets, I saw them blow out the Wizards and the Cavs directly before that Oklahoma City game game. And I was talking to all the Lakers media people in the building and I pretty much everybody agreed this is the best vibes the franchise had had since the 21 season. Right after their championship in the bubble where they were still rolling and having just a good time, you know, in the afterglow of that title. And, you know, things have gotten, you know, pretty complicated after that. I mean, the Russell Westbrook experience, you go through all these different chapters they've had, right? But they finally seemed like they were gelling, everything was together. And then it went. Went poof in the course of one game. The only defense I would have for the Lakers medical staff is that I feel like Luca labors within games more than any star I've ever seen, whether or not he's actually injured, you know, and it's just there's. I. I don't know if you. Acting is probably too strong of a word, right? But like, he just has this different emotions that just most players don't, where it looks like he's dragging his leg here and then he goes out there and scores 40. And so maybe they just thought, oh, it's typical Luca. And this time it's. Unfortunately, it turned out to be serious. But you know, clearly in hindsight, when you're down that much against okc, you're not going to have the comeback you're in there building. Just play for tomorrow. And unfortunately now they're stuck with the repercussions of that decision.
- [47:02]
B
Number five seed is the Houston Rockets, 49 and 29. And like I said, they would be taking on the Lakers in a 4, 5 matchup. A banged up Lakers team. What's your question with the Rockets, one of the most confusing teams we've had this NBA season?
- [47:15]
D
No question. Look, I've been really down on the Rockets all year and now I might have to really eat crow if they're going to win a first round series. Now against the Lakers, I would never have seen it coming. But to me the question's all about their clutch offense because it's, it's been such a disaster so many times and it feels like the same way every time, but also different mistakes every time. Who's going to have the bad turnover? Who's going to have the bad miss? Who's going to forget to set the screen and go to the right place? I mean, they've just had so many late game misadventures. So the question is, will those clutch issues be their fatal flaw? I don't know how you dodge those issues, right? I mean, those are very important things in playoff games, even if you're going to get a wounded Lakers team. But certainly like in a second round matchup against Oklahoma City, you have to be able to go shot for shot in crunch time with Shea. And you know, Kevin Durant's had this huge burden, so he gets tired late in games. He's throwing the ball all over the court, unfortunately in some of these losses. And you know, obviously still hitting some shots in certain games too, but. But the chemistry has never felt right between him and Shen Goon in the big moments. They have a lot of non shooters that they want to play, which kind of screws up the spacing in the late game moments as well. Amen. Thompson really didn't develop as that great point guard that everyone was hoping for at the start of the season. And it just feels like this is going to be their fatal flaw. Like if they lost to Oklahoma City, if they got swept and you know, they got outscored in every single fourth quarter, would that surprise you at all?
- [48:37]
B
No, it wouldn't. They're, like I said, very polarizing. But all that to say, like the Lakers pre Luca injury. I think the Rockets vibes right now are better than they've been all season long. I don't know if they've rebounded from the Kevin Durant burner fiasco. Fiasco. Excuse me, but they seem to, like, be playing with a little bit more joy recently as they picked up some wins and try to, like, keep their positioning. But even the other night, like, I was celebrating them running a play in the fourth quarter, like, and I think it was fair. Like, I mean, they hadn't done a lot of that. It's a lot of standing around and like, okay, it's with Kevin Durant now. What are we doing? But got him off ball. Got a little action going with Sengu and it worked. And you know, I like what Reed Shepherd's done in the starting lineup here and some of these other guys. Jabari Smith Jr. Had a big game against the warriors, too, but yeah, they are this classic team. They got a 12 point lead in the fourth quarter and it's like, you can't turn it off. I mean, you're buckle up, you're going to have a. It's going to be clutch time. But maybe they're helped out by playing the Lakers here.
- [49:41]
D
Yeah, I mean, it's a huge boost for them. They got to be so happy because everybody wanted to play the Rockets and now everybody wants to play the Lakers, right? So that, that is definitely been a big shift here. Late. You probably know the couples that are just so hot and cold, right? Like, you probably got a friend, maybe them and their girlfriend or their wife who just like, some days, everything's perfect. Someday, everything is horrible. They're getting to a huge screaming match now. It's like, like, you know, they're made up, everything's perfect. That's the Rockets to me. And so even when they have these good vibe periods that you're describing, Skeets, I don't trust it. I'm just waiting for ebay to scream at Shengoon in a day or two, you know, like, it's always bound to happen. The problems are there under the surface. They can't fool me. They can't put on the smiling face. I don't believe it.
- [50:21]
B
That's. Oh, wow. That is a great, great metaphor for what this Rockets team is. You're just sitting there at the dinner table going, oh, please, can we just make it through this dinner or through these drinks without somebody saying something to piss the person off? I still have faith in all of my friends, relationships and the Houston Rockets, thank you very much. No, I'm going to look silly. I know it. The final seat in the west, and then we'll eventually do the East. But the Minnesota Timberwolves, 46 and 32. You want to talk about a team that I feel like everyone's like, yeah, okay, not their year last year with the Anthony Edwards injury. And then sort of these elite teams separating themselves, I think, from the Wolves. But what's your cue and do you feel the same way, I guess, about them?
- [51:05]
D
I think it just comes down to Ant's health. Right. So the question would be, how close is he going to be to 100%, like in these playoff games? Do you have a good sense exactly. For what the condition of his knee is or what they're anticipating? It felt like there was some dire talk here recently about, oh, you know, they're, they're getting nervous because they're running out of time here. But like, what do you expect from Anthony Edwards in a first round series? Because when I look back at their successes recently, he took out Kevin Durant with the Suns. He took out LeBron and Luca with the Lakers. He outlasted Steph Curry, who got hurt in the second round. Ant was fully healthy as far as I know, in all of. He took down Joker. I probably should have mentioned that one. He was fully healthy, playing huge minutes, looking really good in all those series as far as I remember. I, you know, it's just a totally different team if Anthony Edwards is not 100%, if he's limited in any way. Right. So what's your sense exactly of his status?
- [51:59]
B
I don't know. It's confusing. I didn't anticipate him being. Being out sort of this long. He's only played in two of the last, what, ten games or something like that. The one game he looked horrible against the Sixers recently, and they're like, all right, take the next one off. I think they're saying he has what Steph had. Right. Runner's knee is what they're saying. This, you know, discomfort there in the knee. It's one thing when the guy's like 36, 37 years old to have it. It's another when you're Anthony Edwards age. So concerning. But yeah, they're not going anywhere without probably Anthony Edwards at 100% or close to it just because of the competition. They're going to be playing in the first round. But, man, I mean this. To me, they've just like, they've just fallen off the map or like out of the NBA discourse because of the injury. It's like nobody's even talking about them anymore. It's like they sort of been stuck or they feel stuck here in this position and they're going to be playing obviously probably the Nuggets now, which I mean, I mean it was going to be the Lakers and you're like, ah, well Lakers don't stop teams. Like maybe there's a chance there and Ant's going to like raise his level in LA and all that. But I don't have any faith in them beating the Denver Nuggets in a first round series who are now healthy themselves. So yeah, it's a weird situation where they were always like sort of in the mix all season long, look good at times, then had bad stretches which they've done before. But usually when the playoffs come around they level up. But I don't see that happening this here without Ant.
- [53:21]
D
No, it's. It's a huge hinge point, right, because this is one of the most anticipated series of the first round. Advance healthy Nuggets, wolves sign everybody up, right? It's like round three, here we go. And instead it's like, well this could actually, you know, help Joker and Aaron Gordon get through a first round relatively easily and get ready for that showdown in the second round if Anthony Edwards isn't out there playing great. The runners knee thing is scary. I mean you would know this, you're a runner. Like they always talk about the playoffs as a marathon. I don't think you want runner's knee as you're getting ready for a marathon in anyway, right? I mean that's like the last thing that you would want. And keep in mind he's played a lot of minutes early in his career and they've been hard minutes, especially this past year because they never got him the point guard. They never really got him that, you know, that full time point guard who is going to be able to relieve his duties. So I guess I can't say I'm super surprised it eventually caught up to him and the Timberwolves. But we'll just cross our fingers and hope for good health for Ant. You know, I would love to get a great first round series from him just so we get a, you know, some good action early in the, in the playoffs.
- [54:21]
B
Oh sure. And he's not the only one on the Wolves with a knee injury. I think Jaden McDaniels is also out week to week with an injury with his knee too. And we know how important he is on the defensive side of the ball. And they are a good defense still. I mean you got Rudy, you got him. That's a good backbone of a defense. They're still top five, I think, in defensive rating, but yeah, obviously don't have the juice on the other side without ant or even McDaniels, who's had some big playoff games too. So unfortunate that at this point of the season they seem like a write off. But you know, they've made two long runs the last two years to the Western Conference finals when there were times where we're like, are they all that good? So we'll see. Let's take a break and when we come back, we'll get into Ben's big questions about the six top Eastern Conference teams right now, new FanDuel customers can bet $5 and get 250 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. That's right, turn five bucks into 250 in bonus bets just for getting started. And when every possession matters in the playoffs, FanDuel makes it easy to get close, closer to the action. Get right up next to that action. From player props on your favorite stars to all the tools you need to back them up, FanDuel puts player research right at your fingertips. You can check the stats and you can check trends and matchups all in one place. And you can try and make your picks with some confidence, baby. Confidence. It's everything you need, all in one app. So don't miss your shot. Head to FanDuel.com podcast to get started. FanDuel play your game Game. We're not dancing anymore. It's time to play your game when it comes to the NBA playoffs. All right, we got Ben Gulliver here, national NBA writer. We did the Western Conference. Let's do the East. We'll start with the Pistons 57 and 22. Ben missed a bunch of guys last night, so a rare L for the Detroit Pistons in in losing to the Orlando Magic. But that's okay. No one's fretting too much. They clinch the number one see seed. What's your big cue with Detroit?
- [56:14]
D
Well, all season I've been thinking of them a lot. Like the Chicago Bulls during the Derrick Rose era, where Kate Cunningham just kind of does it all on offense and then everybody else is defensive minded. And so now I'm wondering, are they the 2012 bulls, right, where the number one seed gets upset. They do feel vulnerable, even though I've been incredibly impressed how well they've played and how Jalen Durant stepped up. I even heard her stepped up a little bit since the Kate Cunningham absence. But. But you're going into a playoff series without your Best player without an MVP candidate, It's obviously going to have everybody, you know, sizing you up. You also look at a team like Charlotte with their late season momentum. If they wind up in the eight seat, that's like the worst possible matchup for a team like Detroit where like this, you know, Charlotte's got momentum, they've got the good vibes, they've got nothing to lose. All the pressure's on you. You don't have your main guy. That just feels like a tricky, tricky dynamic for a number one seed to head, you know, into the playoffs. I think they're still capable of winning a playoff series without Cade based on the quality of their defense. I just wouldn't guarantee it, you know, and I'm feeling nervous. To me, it really depends on if they can, you know, avoid some of the tougher matchups from that play and draw. I think there's some teams who could potentially fall to 8 where I would still think that they're going to be okay, but there's others like Charlotte where I would get more nervous. So to me, it's just, is this history repeating? You know, Cade's out of the picture, just like D. Rose was out of the picture. And then Chicago goes down and then, you know, this, this dream Detroit season kind of falls apart.
- [57:41]
B
Yeah, I hear you on the Hornets thing of this, like, that's the one team where you're like, the way they've played over the last couple months, the style they play, the energy alone, that's going to be in that building where they've had very little success to cheer about. That'd be a tough matchup if the Pistons had no Cade. All the other teams, teams I'm taking the Pistons, including my Raptors or even the Sixers or either of those Florida teams, if they somehow were the eight seed there. The Hornets are the only one. And I still have Detroit beating them. I think they've proven. I do. They have proven to me over this last stretch without Cade, whenever we thought, oh, boy, are they going to be able to hold on to the one seed? Oh, are they going to fall apart? They haven't. I mean, Dennis Jenkins, I know it's different in the regular season and Mickey Mouse March and April than it is in the postseason. But he's legit. He is solid. Jalen Duran's been awesome. All these guys, they have an identity. That's the key part. It's like, yeah, you take away Cade, okay, the offense is going to suffer. The defense is still elite. They're always going to be in games because of it. So I have faith they will advance. If Kate is playing or not in a first round against any team, it'll go to six or seven. Against the Hornets, I think they win in five or less against a lot of these other teams. That's how much confidence I still have in the them and Kate should. I mean, I don't know. Kate feels like he's coming back. They haven't said like it's a wrap. Right. And that he's done. So I, maybe I'm banking on the fact that he's returning here sooner rather than later, but I've just been impressed over these last couple weeks when a lot of teams would have like sort of maybe go, oh, well, our, our MVP guy's gone. You know, whatever. A good year, guys. Hopefully we get them back and then we'll put up a fight. They did the opposite. They're like, no, no, no. The games are losing, they're going to overtime and competing and like they have an edge. Like, you know, you compare them to the 2012 Bulls. I see it, I hear what you're saying with the upset factor, but maybe they are like the old Pistons teams where it's like you just don't want to mess around with them and you know they're going to put up a fight. So I have a little more faith in them to at least of course, go to the second round no matter who they play.
- [59:39]
D
I love it. No, I wish I shared your faith. Part of me is just, I could just see the worst case scenario developing where the shots don't fall. Everyone's looking around. Okay, you know, this is different. We're not used to being here. You know, we were here last year when we had kind of a sad exit, you know, and some people would say a disputed exit against New York where maybe some calls didn't go for them.
- [60:00]
B
Right.
- [60:00]
D
He doesn't come back and then it's like, oh, God, you know, and the house falls apart. I could see that scenario playing out too. I know what you're. I don't think it's impossible for them to win a first round series at all. Yeah, and I would love. I mean, the best case scenario is the heroic return for Cade, which would be awesome. I mean, imagine how exciting that would be for the Pistons home playoff crowd. Like, Cage shows up, I'm ready to rock. You know, he gets the adrenaline boost, he goes out and scores 25. That would be absolutely nuts. And I hope it happens. But, you know, part of me is Just like, oh, I could see this going the other way. I really can. I got a little icky feeling.
- [60:33]
B
Fair enough. Number two seed in the east, it looks like it's going to be the Boston Celtics here. I mean, the Knicks still have a chance to overtake them, but what's your cue for Boston now that they're fully back healthy with Jason Tatum back in the mix?
- [60:46]
D
You know, it's a bigger picture question of just how fast will the title hype build? Right. We're always used to the Celtics, the Celtics, the Celtics, that. That talk. And coming in this year, there was none of that talk. They were the plucky underdogs who are pulling it together. And Joe Missoula's coach of the year because he's overachieving. But it's like, if they go through the first round, let's say they win in four or five games. Isn't all the Celtics mafia, all their fans, you know, the green beer drinkers, as I like to call them, them. Aren't they going to rush to the finish line and say, wait a minute, there's nobody in the east who could stop the Boston Celtics. We're more experienced. We've got better talent. And by the way, why is everyone say the best contenders are in the Western Conference? Should the Boston Celtics be up there with the Denver Nuggets and the San Antonio Spurs? Because they've done it before, and aren't we just all headed for a Thunder Celtics final? Isn't it inevitable? Like, I feel like that kind of national talk will potentially build if Boston gets off to a strong start and Tatum continues to play well. And I just wonder, are they really that good? You know, are they ready for all of that? Because that was not the vibe at all as recently as, like a month or two ago, right? Where it was more like, hey, you know, it's supposed to be a gap year, so this is all good. You know, there's not really any pressure, expectations. I just don't think the Boston fans could contain themselves. You know, I think they're going to get into the playoffs, it's going to go well in the first round, and then they're going to rush straight to the end and go from kind of everybody's overlooking the Celtics to now overrated. The Celtics, potentially.
- [62:10]
B
Yeah, look, they're. They're an awesome team. You know, all season long, they're still basically top five in all on both sides of the ball. And net rating, I think they're third overall. So this has been impressive. You know, whether they hand the coach of the year to Missoula and he just smashes it right there on the spot because he thinks it's a stupid reward. We'll find out. I think Bickerstaff is very deserving of it as well. But I guess this has gone about as well as it could. Right after the Tatum injury. They obviously exceed expectations. Jalen Brown carries this team. He's in MVP conversations end of the ballot. All these other guys that were sort of like castaways or people had low expectations for, they've leveled up. I mean, Kada especially comes to mind. He's in the MIP conversation. And then you get Tatum back and he's like rounding into form and like they got him back. Like he's played what, almost 15 games at this point. Maybe he gets another one or two here. So not bad. You get a quarter of a season close to that under his belt belt to shake off some of the rust and then. Yeah. Are you back into the championship contender status? Most people, I think right now, today would pick the Celtics to come out of the East.
- [63:16]
D
Yeah, right. I would too. But you know, again, it's one of those things where it's just like expectations shifting that fast. Yeah. The level of scrutiny that comes with it. Right. Like people are flirting with the Jalen and Jason talk a little bit. Like when they did lose recently. Right. Like, like, oh, is this going to work out okay?
- [63:33]
B
I can't believe we're still doing that.
- [63:35]
D
I know, I know. I. But you know, it's going to happen again if they, if they go down in a series two one, everyone's going to go rushing straight back to it. Right?
- [63:42]
B
Yeah.
- [63:43]
D
And they did lose to the Knicks last year. Right. And they're potentially looking at a rematch there. And so are they going to be ready or, you know, maybe a little bit more rested than they were this time last year. You know, going into that series able to execute better. I mean, I think I just view the Celtics, they're not quite on the Lakers level in terms of being a national team team, but I do feel like they get scrutinized, picked apart, looked at to a different degree than just about everybody else in the league. And when they're able to fly under the radar and put up the incredible stats that you're describing all year long, it's a feel good story. And I just, I can't imagine it's going to be that easy for them the whole way through the playoffs.
- [64:19]
C
Right.
- [64:19]
D
Like at some point they're going to hit a Wall. At some point, Tatum's going to underperform. At some point, maybe Jaylen Brown has a, you know, a tour dates night right, where he's going 6 for 20. And then everybody's, you know, throwing up their hands, saying, saying this guy's not really the mvp. What's going on? He shouldn't be in the conversation. Like, they just stoke a lot of conversation and you know, and backlash and they're just kind of a little bit polarizing. I think either love them or hate them. And that's just a new challenge for this group, which I to me, has just kind of passed the season with flying colors to this point.
- [64:50]
B
Yeah. And I think people do. I don't know if they forget or there's revisionist history or whatever. Like the Knicks were beating them last year before Tatum went down. Like it was sort of going New York's way. It looked like they're going to win the series. And then once Tatum goes down, of course that's a wrap. But, you know, they got outplayed in that series against a very good Knicks team who's, you know, similar squad here. And we might see them in a, in a second round matchup if the, if it remains the way it is right now, two, three. So that would be awesome. That'd be a fun, fun series. But the Celtics, look, I had them as the gap year. I thought this was going to be one of these years. They're more of a.500 team. Not the number two seed in the East. Not the team that's the favorites to come out of the conference. Not with Tatum coming back. I thought maybe like, who knows if their record is, like, not as great as it was. Is Tatum rushing back or is it like, all right, man, you're not coming back for the eighth seed, you know what I mean? Or seventh seed. Yeah, yeah, we won't really know that,
- [65:44]
D
but yeah, it's funny. I mean, like, right now on paper, OKC versus Boston looks like the kind of best basketball matchup in the finals. Right. I think most people would agree. How many times have we actually gotten the best basketball matchup in the finals, though, in recent years? Like, yeah, it's just, you know, the Denver, Miami one sticks out as not being the best, you know, finals matchup. I mean, you go down the list even last year, it's like kind of surprising that the Pacers were in that mix. Although it turned out to be an incredible series. And so something could go wrong on either side of it, you know, And I guess I trust okc to hold up their end of the bargain. Maybe more than I do Boston, but I would love to see that. I hope we get that finals because the matchups would be crazy. Crazy.
- [66:24]
B
Let's go to the New York Knicks. Had a crazy win last night, 51 and 28. Now, C.J. mcCollum for the Hawks hit a half court shot at the buzzer, but it was ruled no good. I was watching this game here in Atlanta. I had my. My godson was actually at the game, so he got a good one. But I thought it was good when they first showed it, when in, in real time, I'm like, oh my God. Like it was such a crazy shot. It banked in, but after review, it was just on the fingertips. So The Knicks won 108, 105. And Jalen Brunson was a star. I mean, this was a classic Brunson takeover. They lose this game if Brunson isn't playing. He went nuts in the fourth quarter. Handed the Hawks their first loss since early February at home. The Knicks, though, what's your big question surrounding this team?
- [67:10]
D
Well, did CJ double clutch on that shot at the end or was there like a little hitch to it?
- [67:15]
B
A little hitch because there was like a D. Some defense being played. I. If. Was it Brunson by him there? I think it was because they were debating on the broadcast, like, do you miss the free throw here? I mean, there was no time out for the Hawks to advance the ball and they got into the classic. Like, no, you just take the points and then you defend. And then they're saying, no, you should miss. And it's like you probably should have missed it. Like you're just going to get such a worse look, like you're going to get the rebound and just have to, you know, chuck it over your head. This after the made free throw and you got to sort of run a play, so to speak. Incredible shot. Like it was nuts. The game was super fun. Like Nikhil Alexander Walker was on fire. Brunson was on fire.
- [67:53]
D
Yeah, no, it was an incredible shot. I just wish it had counted. It did feel like there was just that slight, you know, if that hit wasn't there, it counts. And then we're, we're talking about it as one of the, the bigger shots in recent memory. But on the Knicks front, this is just now or never for Cat, right? I mean, this is kind of, I feel like a, you know, a crossroads moment for him with this group. You know, last year I think that he got picked on A decent amount in the playoffs. I think that's been kind of his M.O. over the course of his prime. I mean, in Minnesota, he winds up being expendable because they feel like Rudy can handle the backline defense better, you know, and they're able to kind of get by with Randall after making that trade. I. I think with New York, like, this feels like a huge, huge opportunity for them to reach the Finals. It hasn't been a perfect season. Lots of ups and downs for them, but some really high highs, guys. And I think ownership's expectations are through the roof if it doesn't work out, like, let's say they lose in the second round to the Celtics. Right?
- [68:53]
B
Right.
- [68:54]
D
There's got to be fallout. There's got to be changes, a very expensive roster, and, you know, guys like Brunson aren't going anywhere. Oh, gee, I can't imagine he would go anywhere. Probably be hard to trade Bridges. So does Cat wind up as the odd man out again in a scenario where they fall short, especially if he's getting exploited defensively in the playoffs? I think it's a fair question to ask. Ask. And, you know, I think there's been at times where he hasn't necessarily been the happiest camper this year, you know, maybe some questions between him and. And Mike Brown a little bit at times. So it just kind of feels like, hey, put up her shut up time for Carl Anthony Towns. Is he going to be able to get it done? I think he's got to be one of those guys you circle and say, it's gotta be a big postseason for him.
- [69:34]
B
Yeah. This goes back to, like, who deserves the blame when the Knicks struggle, does it always get piled on to Kat and maybe not. Not as much as it should on Bridges or, you know, maybe games where Brunson is struggling Now, Brunson is a rock, so everybody loves him. But the Bridges part, he needs to obviously come through for the Knicks fans as well. But I hear you on the defensive end, Cat. He just, like, doesn't hide his emotions at all too obviously the dumb fouls that he picks up and trouble. Man, what are you doing, though? Mitchell Robinson is healthy right now and I thought was a difference maker in the Hawks game last night and has been at times before in postseason matchups too. He needs to stay healthy for an entire postseason run. But it is sort of set up here pretty well for the Knicks with just Tatum playing 15 games and the Pistons missing Cade and The Cavs like no one, 100% convinced they can go on a huge run. Like, it's sort of here for the taking, so to speak, for the Knicks to go very far, and I mean to the Finals.
- [70:35]
D
Well, I think your point on how he gets scapegoated too often is right, you know, because he's not the only guy to blame. It's very easy to look at him. His mistakes are loud, whether it's the foul trouble or getting blown by going to the rim. It's like he's just. There's nowhere for him to hide when he's not playing well, and he probably doesn't get enough credit when he does play well. I guess my point is more so, like, their payroll is over $200 million, right? So if you go out in the second round, something's going to have to change. You look at the salaries Cat's making, by far the most post. And I think Bridges, you know, his mistakes are kind of quiet. He just floats and nobody ever talks about him, notices the fact that there's a lot of nights where he's not doing stuff. And I think that it would be harder to trade Mikhail Bridges, even though he's making less than Cat, than it would be to trade Cat. Right. Because people are going to look around and say, well, you know, what are you really getting from Bridges at this point? So I just. That's why I feel like the scapegoating stuff, even though it's unfair from a basketball sense. I do think, like, at some point they're going to have to ask that question this summer, just because how expensive the roster is.
- [71:36]
B
The Cat blame pie reminds me of old Chris Bosh days, man. And I think it's because they're both goofballs a part of it or something like that. Like, Bosch would obviously get buried at times for really no real reason. It was like, ah, it's your fault, man. You know, it's. I feel like Kat does get that, too. But are the Knicks in a can't lose situation? They either go very far here in the east and maybe we're in the final, or they lose in the second round and they can just trade for Giannis, right?
- [72:02]
D
Yeah, well, yeah, you got to be careful. Trade for Yanis, too, though. I don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't call that a can't lose, you know, given how things are going in Milwaukee and how his body is, you know, kind of falling apart. The Bosch thing is a great point, though, man. Like, if Evan Mobley thinks he has a tough being the punchline of jokes these days. Yeah. Bosch used to endure back in the Miami days. And he at least had the excuse. He was always the third option, so of course he wasn't going to score 20 points every single night, you know, and so he had it even tougher than everybody. And his defensive versatility wasn't appreciated as much as, you know, guys in that mold get appreciated today. So, you know, tip one, you know, pour one out for Chris Bosh. Incredible career.
- [72:42]
B
Yeah, at least he's a hall of famer. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customer and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.
- [72:56]
A
Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird.
- [72:58]
E
What is this, your first date?
- [73:00]
B
Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.
- [73:06]
A
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.
- [73:09]
B
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty. Liberty.
- [73:12]
D
Liberty.
- [73:13]
B
Liberty.
- [73:15]
A
On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends for? Since the day we met. As the League1 volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. We really are like yin and yang, vodka and tequila. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Today we have Logan Lednecki.
- [73:39]
B
I feel like our fan base in
- [73:41]
A
general is very connected.
- [73:43]
B
Just like a comforting feeling getting to play at home.
- [73:45]
E
Home.
- [73:46]
A
Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, serving Pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Jordan Thompson had that microphone out. God forbid we make mistakes or cuss at our coach.
- [74:00]
D
Like when talking.
- [74:01]
A
Open your free iHeartradio app, search serving Pancakes and listen now. This has been Serving Pancakes. And we'll catch you on the flip side. Okay. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [74:15]
E
Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid.
- [74:29]
D
Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun Cancer Moon. Wouldn't you know it? Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn Sun Cancer moon.
- [74:36]
E
The story of the sport's most common inconsequential driver. Strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Ricardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both?
- [74:53]
A
He started getting all this attention and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than this, I'm better.
- [75:00]
E
And plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [75:15]
B
All right, let's go to the fourth seed in the East, Cleveland Cavaliers, 50 and 29. They won a game last night. 142, 126 versus the Grizzlies. Despite the Grizzlies tying the NBA record for three pointers made in a game. Grizzlies hit 29 threes last night night. And they lost handedly to the Cavs. Go check the low lights on this one. The Grizzlies. The Grizzlies were trying so hard at the end of this game to get the 30th three pointer and set the all time record. They were fouling to extend the game. It was silly times. And the basketball God said, nope, we're putting a lid, we're putting a lid on the basket. You're not getting it like this. Anyway, they lost and the Cavs won. But, but Cavaliers, one of these teams that's been up and down all year, I don't know how you feel about them, made the big James Harden trade. What's your question?
- [76:06]
D
Well, first of all, isn't it incredible? A team could win or could lose a game making 29 three pointers in the NBA and another team could win the national championship in men's basketball making two three pointers in the same night. If only Michigan had made 27 more, the game wouldn't have been as close. That's wild to think about. What a, what a weird sport. What a crazy moment we're at. So anyway, in all seriousness about Cleveland, you mentioned earlier about calling Stefan Castle a 16 game player, you know, giving him that label. I want to zoom back. For a guy who's had a lot of big moments in the playoffs over the years, is Donovan Mitchell actually an 82 game player? You know, like, why does he continually get into the playoffs? You know, get his numbers, the team loses, the team never gets out of the second round. We said what a great opportunity it would be for New York this year. I mean, if you go back to the start of the season, everyone said the exact same thing about the Cavaliers coming off that incredible 60 plus win season, right? It's like every big game, opening night, you know, and all this was like Knicks vs. Cavs, Knicks vs. Cavs. That was the conversation. And somehow the Cavs have just kind of fallen out of that conversation. You know, they trade the area Scarlet. That's a nice move for them. They made some other nice pickups at the deadline. And yet I don't necessarily believe in Cleveland because I'm not sure I believe in Donovan Mitchell. And I wonder if this is a guy guy who's just an incredible show on a nightly basis. I mean he was dropping defenders left and right the other night with the dribble moves, getting himself, you know, some buckets and making highlights. But why is there no postseason success to show for it? That's my question. Is he just an 82 game player?
- [77:42]
B
They've made moves here to try and help this team in the playoffs, no doubt with the swapping of Garland for Harden. Big part of that is like Garland always banged up, couldn't play Harden. He always makes the playoffs. He always has good games and then duds, but they're going with that. Just the health factor plays a part in the experience, I think. And then even the moves to get like Dennis Schroeder in there and Keon Ellis, like these defensive minded guys or pesky guys or guys with a bit of an attitude. Because I think that's what a lot of us have said about the Cavs. You know, they're sort of pushovers or they have been here. This Donovan Mitchell led Cavs team over the last couple years. They just got gotten bullied when you get into the postseason. So trying to add like that sort of like defensive minded, sort of like dog like mentality. We'll see if it works. They're weird. Like Donovan Mitchell, isn't he like one of the all like leaders all time in like points per game in the postseason? Like he has to be one of the like the highest of all time. But yeah, not getting to the Western comp or not getting to the conference finals either in the west or the East. It's a knock on his unbelievable career so far. And it's just been one of these weird. They're a 50 win team, they get to that plateau. But there's not a lot of confidence in this squad right now. It's weird.
- [78:55]
D
Well, you know, the points for a game thing is really interesting because he. I do feel like he's clutch. Like, if he has the ball in his hands late in games, and I expect good things are going to happen. However, I think it's kind of symptomatic of when they get deep into playoff games, the ball really concentrates in his hands more. So he's taking a lot of shots. Yeah. And he's never been the best playmaker for his teammates, and his teams typically have not. There was like maybe one or two Utah teams that had great offensive balance, where they really had like four or five threats. Right. But typically, like, a lot is going on his shoulders. And so it's almost like it's great that he can average 30 in the playoffs or 30 plus in the playoffs, but it's also a sign that maybe it's not the healthiest team dynamic. Right.
- [79:32]
B
Yeah.
- [79:33]
D
And there was guys dropping like flies last year. I mean, Garland, you know, run around on one foot and, you know, Mobley was dealing with stuff. But, you know, their bigs are pretty limited in terms of, like, shot creation. I mean, they're pretty derivative players. Right. And so, you know, when Jared Allen fades in the play playoffs, it never really surprises me. And so it just puts more on Mitchell and, you know, I just don't know if the formula is quite right for a lot of playoff success. But I would love for him to prove me wrong, because when he gets hot, he's up there for the most entertaining players to watch in the entire NBA. Right. I mean, Steph Wemby are probably above them. Not too many other players than Donovan Mitchell on a heater. But I've kind of run out of excuses for him. Like, we've seen it so many times. Like, he's turned at 30. It's time to get to the conference finals. Come on.
- [80:16]
B
Yeah. And like the Knicks, if they obviously fall short in a first round or second round, whatever it is, and they have to make moves or they're sort of pressured to do that. I think the Cavs are in the same boat here. Like, if they lose to the Hawks in a first round matchup, which I think is not impossible, I don't think it's impossible with the way Atlanta's playing, then that there has to be drastic changes either maybe with Mitchell, obviously one of the bigs, they already made the harder move like we talked about. But, like, there'd have to be some huge, huge decisions, I think, because you can't just keep spinning your wheels with sort of the core of this. But we'll see. You know, look, they are. They still are an Offensive juggernaut. Mitchell is still dynamic. Harden is there for a reason. Take the pressure off him like you're talking about at end of games where he can control the ball. And he's had big moments in postseason matchups and also some classic duds in key games in later in series. But we'll see if he can write that wrong.
- [81:10]
D
Well, I have a heater for you. Well, maybe this is a heater, maybe not. Mobley, that's who I would trade. I know it's people. The last guy that some people would think they would trade because he's the Young's star franchise building block. You look at his contract, it is freaking massive. 46 this year, 50 next year, 53 the year after. 57 the year after. 61 the year after. We just saw Memphis trade off of Jaren Jackson Jr. And saying, hey, time to retool a little bit. We're not sure he's worth the huge contract that he got. I don't know how Evan Mobley lives up to that number as he's going forward. Right. And so if you could keep a, you know, a top playoff team, if you keep Allen, keep Mitchell, maybe keep Harden and you try to, you know, pivot a little bit. I just wonder if Mobley lowers your ceiling because of that huge contract and they'd be better spinning him off and try to get some value back.
- [82:01]
B
Yeah, when you have a contract and you're making that much money, you got to be. You got to be a top 15 guy. You got to be an all NBA guy. Obviously won the defensive player of the year and he is great still on that end. But I would take so many guys over. I took over Evan Mobley. Honestly, if we lined them up and I'm saying you got to win a postseason matchup or go far. I'm taking so many guys right now over Mobley. So yeah, he's got. He needs to have a good postseason here for sure. Fifth seed is the Atlanta Hawks. 45 and 34 Atlanta. I get. I keep getting asked about the Atlanta Hawks here in Atlanta, like at my pickup runs or just out on the street. If they find out what I do and I just say, don't talk about them. Don't look at them. You know, just don't say anything. Just try and enjoy this from afar. Cause as soon as you start convincing yourself they could do something is when they're going to let you down. But what a run here. Led by Jalen Johnson to kill Alexander Walker. Balling out. The ball is moving. It's got life. They playing some defense here. The Hawks, your big cue with them in the fifth seed.
- [83:02]
D
Well, I think we've now reached a stage of the conference where expectations are significantly lower. Right. Like, the top four really face pressure. And I think, like, you're saying, you know, with the Hawks and we go into the Raptors and some of these other teams, it's like, hey, not that they're happy to be there, but it's not the same dynamic. Like, you know, it's. It's not the end of the world if they lose in the first round. So that's why my big question for Atlanta is just like, hey, can Jalen Johnson do enough in this playoffs to make everybody forget Trey Young for good? Like, I feel like they. They've made a lot of progress, like, you know, moving past that Trae Young era. But the highlights of Trae Young, you know, Madison Square Garden, the playoff moments, you know, stunning the world with some of those big playoff performances. Like, I look at this now as Jalen Johnson's team, right? And I think he's very good. I don't think he's great, but he is set up for success because, you know, the. The vibes have been wonderful. The momentum has been strong down the stretch. The pieces fit very well. So he needs to show me, like, playoff. Jalen Johnson is capable of, like, leading a little run. You know, I don't need to see him. Him even win a series, really. But, like, let's make it competitive in the first round. Let's go deep. Let's have, you know, a couple of really big 30 plus point nights where you're putting your stamp on the action. Everyone's saying, wow, that guy was the best player on the court. Because if you don't get that, like, if they whimper out in the first round, like, you're hinting could be possible. That's when everyone starts to do the, like, relitigating of, like, was this the right strategy? And then they don't have a franchise guy, and they're kind of stuck here, here. And I just want that to die for the Atlanta Hawks. Like, I want them to be fully clear of the Trey Young era. They've made a lot of progress moving past it, and I hope that they do enough in this playoffs where no one's looking backwards.
- [84:40]
B
It's a good point, like, just to have a competitive first round, even if they can't advance past, let's say, the Cavs, if that's who they play, just to put up a fight, win some Games, make it go deep, put a scare into Cleveland, have Jalen lead them, because then they get a draft pick. I mean, this is the best thing going for them, right? It's like there's something here, the way they're playing. Moving off of the Trae Young era. It's a much more entertaining product to watch is the other part. I mean, I watch a lot more Hawks games than most people, but it's been great. It has been very entertaining over this last little stretch. Led by a good old Canadian boy and Nikhil Alexander Walker, too. Just like surprising a ton of people with his scoring performances. He is on a heater right now, man. They want the playoffs to start now because the way they're playing, because, you know, they could just surprise some. Some teams here, maybe in the post.
- [85:28]
D
It's such a good story because he was awesome at times in last year's playoffs. And sometimes those guys get paid and then those are the biggest mistakes. Right? You're like, oh, no. Like, why did you overpay for like 6 good playoff games? But that wasn't what happened at all. I mean, this guy has really built himself into a player. He's gotten a huge increased opportunity and he's made the absolute most of it. You know, I. I guess there's something in those jeans, man, because those guys just continue to improve. Like, the level. Like, Shay's development since he got to the NBA is incredible. And Nikhil Alexander Walker's development since he got to the NBA has been absolutely incredible, too. He's bouncing around all these different teams. Nobody necessarily wanted to keep him. He wasn't. It wasn't sticking anywhere. And then now he's really found a home.
- [86:09]
B
Yeah. Would you think he's the favorite to win Most Improved now, or are you more of along the lines of like the. The All Star, All NBA jump? Like maybe even Jalen Johnson or Jalen Duran or Denny Avdia, that. That sort of ascension, or are you more of a classic? Nah, like a guy like Nikhil Alexander Walker, who's been in the league a little bit, bounced around, now found a role and is obviously improved. Which side of the MIP sort of debate, or what, if you want to call it that, do you fall on.
- [86:36]
D
You know, I like both sides of the conversation. I consider both candidates for sure. This year my pick is Jalen Duran, and I'll be honest, a lot of it is because I just didn't think he was going to be an All Star.
- [86:46]
B
Right.
- [86:46]
D
You go back to last year. I mean, it's like okay. This guy's kind of limited. You know, the numbers aren't jumping off the the page. Detroit didn't even want to necessarily pay him. Like, I felt like he had a lot to prove. You know, I do my preseason top 100 list, and I barely even had Jalen Durant in the top 100, you know, and I kind of snuck him in at the very end. Well, I just, you know, it's kind of a limited track record, and I felt like Cade was doing almost everything. Now. That's me underrating him for sure. But you look at his body of work this season, incredible. I mean, totally a deserving all star. And then how well he's played and stepped up since Cade's got injured. He's been a big factor for why they've continued to win. And I think, you know, I tend to like to reward winning teams if I possibly can with the end of season awards. And so I would vote to Ren, but you got a case from Jalen Johnson and Alexander Walker in that race. Not often you have two guys in that conversation. And last year, I think I had Dyson Daniels, if I'm not mistaken, possibly as well for most improved players. So it's just a lot of improvement going on. Although I guess we got some regression on the Dyson Daniels front this year.
- [87:44]
B
Yeah, a little bit. And Zachary Rich Sachet has not improved as a younger guy, but, you know, he's coming off the bench now. And CJ Obviously in there and has played really, really well with that trade. So the Hawks, the best thing they have going for them is like, there are low expectations, and that can be a dangerous team.
- [87:59]
D
Right? Yeah.
- [88:00]
B
Where it's like, oh, suddenly they win game one in Cleveland, you're like, holy crap, hold on, hold on. You know, and start building some momentum.
- [88:06]
D
So we'll see. Well, matchup wise, too. The forwards, you know, it's like, in. In Cleveland, what's their big issue? It's like, who's guarding the wings? Like, you know, who's guarding Jalen Johnson? That's going to be a tough question for Cleveland to answer. And so positionally, I think that that could be a, you know, some challenges there. I like that idea of that series. Even if Cleveland's got a heck of a lot more experience and bigger names.
- [88:25]
B
Yeah, it'd be fun, too. Just like, you brought up, like, Mobley and his sort of, like, status in the league and where he ranks, it's like him versus Jalen Johnson suddenly becomes like a. Oh, who would you rather have? Who's a guy you could truly build around. I think most people right now would lean towards. Jalen Johnson was what he's done all season long. But there wasn't a time, there wasn't a time not that long ago. Whereas probably Mobley was the obvious pick to that between the two. So we'll potentially see that final team here. I can't believe it's the Toronto Raptors 43 and 35 because Philadelphia lost last night, so they dipped down to the seventh seed. The remaining six seeds in the east are still a mess. They're all eligible for all of the six seeds. So I'm talking about five through ten here. They could all still technically be five, six, seven, eight, nine or ten. It's crazy though. We have a better idea of like what sort of window each squad will fall into. But the Raptors, what is Ben Gulliver's question about this team? My team?
- [89:23]
D
Well, I think we're contractually obligated to use the word glut when you're describing this schedule. I think that just as a media member, you're supposed to say that. Let me get that on the record. So they're in the middle of a glut in the standings now. The Toronto Raptors years. It's simple. I'm trolling you here a little bit, but are these guys just going to be remembered as a big tease? You know, I think for a lot of the year, you know, they maybe over perform what I thought they would record wise, standing wise, seating wise, Maybe they got some people's hopes up a little bit spiritually. This is a play in team Skeets and you know it. You know, this is, this is not a playoff team. And so, you know, if they wind up in that six seed now, maybe do expectations stay a little bit higher than they should be be, and then how are they going to do anything in the first round? I guess that's my question. The guy who I really look at, the tease, you know, Scotty Barnes, I really like him as a player. I want to love him as a player, but he just keeps teasing me. I feel like not quite to the level I was expecting when he came out in the draft. And there's been improvement. No question about it. He's been used in different roles. It sounds like they're kind of finally figuring out the best way to deploy him. Still not the, the high level franchise player that I was hoping for and expecting. And so, you know, if they go out quickly in round one, I will not be shocked at all. And then at that point, how do you pick up the pieces? As a Raptors fan, I'm curious.
- [90:42]
B
Yeah, look, it's like been sort of a surprisingly good season to, to some, at least prognosticators. 43 wins. A lot of people would have taken the under on that. That's. That is solid. But then you dig a little deeper. And I saw Keats had this on Blue sky the other day. Toronto's 1 in 10 against the top three teams in the East. They're 5 and 21. Yeah, 5 and 21 against the top 10 teams record wise in the NBA. Problem with the playoffs, Ben. You gotta play good teams.
- [91:15]
D
Yeah, that's right.
- [91:16]
B
It's gonna be an issue. It's gonna be an issue for the Raptors, who are struggled against, like, more competent teams, and they started 14 and 6. The Raptors have not really been a good team since late November. They've just been average after that hot start that really shocked a lot of people, myself included. But yeah, they're gonna. I still think they'll fall when it's all said and done. As this week plays out, they're gonna fall into the plan. I think that Kings loss really killed them the other night because, you know, they have some tiebreakers in their advantage, but like, that one was a backbreaker and I think it's gonna cost them. So I'll have them in. They're gonna be in the seventh or eighth speed, and they'll have a couple chances. Maybe they'll win one of those games and get into the playoffs, but it's probably going to be more likely the Sixers here, maybe even the Hornets in this, in this spot. But as of today, it was the Raptors, and we'll see what they do. I have no faith in this team just because of how they've looked against good teams. Honestly.
- [92:10]
D
Yeah, it comes through in your voice and your body language. You seem disgusted by these guys.
- [92:15]
B
I sort of am. It's so weird. Like again, like 43 and 35, like, you know, cheer up, Skeets. Like, that's not a bad year. But like in one, watching them, I've just all season long never been convinced that they have it or they're like a sleeping giant or the pieces don't work all that well. Yeah, it's just odd. And then you're right. Where do you go from here? If this goes as expected for me, like, it's a first round sweep or maybe losing in five or getting bounced in the play in some of these contracts like the Pearl One of it all. The Quickly. One of it all. You know, RJ Barrett is a good player, but I don't know if other teams are as convinced as much. Yeah. You're left going, oh, boy. We. We. Are we. Are we the Bulls, you know, like, are we just going to be like, in this spot for the next couple years? Yeah, I'm down totally. Yeah.
- [93:04]
D
I mean, a lot of decent players on huge contracts. Right? I mean, that's kind of the thing across the board. And so then it all comes back to Scotty Barnes. Is he ever going to be the guy who's like top five, top ten player? If so, so you're going to have a chance in the playoffs. If not, then you're just going to be kind of stuck in this morass, I think, for a while. Because I don't really believe in Ingram too much. You know, I think RJ just sort of is who he is. Yeah. And I don't think that you get a bunch of like, there's not a lot of guys who are making their teammates better necessarily offensively with this group, you know, and so you're not getting the whole is greater than the sum of the parts type run either from this. These guys. So, look, it's been a solid season, but I have not ever believed in them. 14 6. I didn't believe in them. And if you look ahead to next year, like, I have no real cause for optimism, like they're going to be able to build another step forward. Like, I just kind of think they are who they are and, you know, it could be worse. As you know, these last couple of years were worse really. So it's. It's something. It's progress, but it's just not enough to get anybody inspired. And I think they go out pretty quick.
- [94:00]
B
Yeah. Happy with the Colin Murray Boyle selection when he's been healthy. He looks good. He looks like a piece. There have been other picks where obviously they haven't panned out.
- [94:07]
D
Out.
- [94:07]
B
Grady Dick comes to mind. Walter, you know, hit and miss. So maybe not growth from those guys, but we'll see if they get in there and whether they can put up a fight. I don't expect much. Those are the top 12 teams, six in each conference with questions from Ben. I love it, Ben. Great work, Will boy. Before we go, Will boy of the night. Sponsored by you know what. Sponsored by Ben Golliver's substack page.
- [94:30]
D
That's right.
- [94:30]
B
That's right. Link is in the show. Notes go click that Ben's doing a great job not just writing about the NBA, but like some of your travels and other stories, which I like the. I like the variation there.
- [94:41]
D
No, I. Mixing it up a little bit. You know, people want to hear about the national parks. They want to hear about why I love moose. For some unknown reason, I just kind of fell in love with moose as an adult. So I wrote about that. But I'll be getting into Dusty May, what he did at Michigan here today. Okay, a little teaser for you.
- [94:56]
B
Okay, Great. Great stuff. Jokic won. Whoa, boy. Again, the Joker. 33rd triple double of the season. Racked up 35 points, 14 boards, 13 assists. Beat the Blazers in overtime. He made 15 of his season high 31 attempts. So Denver sure feels like playing for that third seed. Five steals, two blocks in 43 minutes of action. People are noting Jokic is playing a little more defense here over these last last couple games and maybe this win streak a little more active on that end of the floor, which I, you know, the eye test sort of does. Does show me as well. So we'll see. Denver Nuggets. People are like, People are trying to convince me like, Denver should like, now fall to like the four or five spot because, like, of who they play in the first round. But that to me is crazy. It's like, guys, OKC is going to the second round. As you said, don't play them in the second round. Try and play them as late as possible because whenever an injury or a team beats them up or something, stay where you are. I think you stay and you know, you can beat the spurs too.
- [96:01]
D
So it goes back to Ant's health. Like, if ant was 100% healthy, I would actually say they should try to duck to the Minnesota Timberwolves because they've had some issues with that matchup previously. But with Ant also being a little bit wounded, I think, stay where you are. Stay on the opposite side of the bracket. You'll be all right. I don't think it's a crazy proposition, though, given the state of the Lakers and the state of the Rockets. You know, I think I would take Denver to sweep either one of those teams. Right. And with Minnesota just, there's. I don't see any way unless and is just not himself where that series would go that easily. And I mean, they just. They also hate each other. You know, there's a lot of animosity between those two teams. I just feel like that would be a challenging series, but if it's not right, just stick with it.
- [96:41]
B
Yep. Ben, can't thank you enough, man. For coming on here, coming with the questions, especially after your team won the championship last night. I already said everybody hit the link in the show notes for Ben's substack page. Check out the podcast as well. You guys are still dropping those once or twice a week? Yep.
- [97:00]
D
Great. Greatest of all, talk.com. twice a week. We're rolling.
- [97:03]
B
Okay. So go check that out. Great to have you back on. Let's make this a regular come back on during the playoffs at some point if you want to chop it up.
- [97:10]
D
Yeah, I got time.
- [97:12]
B
I'm ready for you. He's got time. He's got time. Somebody hire Ben Gulliver.
- [97:15]
A
Right all.
- [97:16]
D
What are you guys doing? Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
- [97:17]
B
Pull your head out of your asses. This is the hottest free agent on the market. Eshua Kid, a guy who finished in third place in the March madness bracket, is joining me here in the classic factory tomorrow. So join us at 10:00am Eastern. Me and Ash talking about the NBA, tonight's games, big storylines. I think we're gonna do the up down report with Ash tomorrow as well. Apparently Shaq has a new dunk league coming. Did you see this?
- [97:41]
D
This Ben? I did, yeah. I got about 19 emails about it. Pretty exciting.
- [97:46]
B
All right. Ben Gulliver will be covering the dunk league coming on tnt I guess in the coming years. Yeah. So we'll get Ash's thoughts on that. Hit the like button. Subscribe five star ratings and reviews until tomorrow. Clipper Bros. You heard it here first.
- [98:01]
D
Have a great time. Turn up.
- [98:03]
B
Love you guys.
- [98:04]
D
Awesome.
- [98:04]
B
Any final words for the good people of no Dunks Land, Ben?
- [98:08]
D
Oh, just go blue. You know, nice and simple.
- [98:10]
B
Keep it simple. Brace the day people
- [98:14]
A
with VRBO's last minute deals. You can save over $50 on your spring getaway. So whether it's a mountain escape city break or a week at the beach, there's still time to get great discounts. Book your next day Now. Average savings $72. Select homes only on the Serving Pancakes podcast, Conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends?
- [98:37]
B
Since the day we met.
- [98:38]
A
As the League1 volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, serving Pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Open your free iHeartradio app search. Serving pancakes. And listen. Now presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [99:05]
C
Peace to the planet. Charlamagne. Tha God here.
- [99:06]
D
And listen. We are back.
- [99:08]
C
The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard. Yeah, and the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Eggs podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague in the gang. Don't call me White Girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, Sweetie. With Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King. And yes, Drink champs will be in the building. Okay. Plus, you know we're gonna have a lot of guests, so you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours@blackffect.com podcast festival. Don't play yourself. Okay, pull up.
- [99:54]
E
Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver's strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [100:24]
A
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.