Ranking All 30 Teams | 2025-26 NBA Season Preview

Summary

No Dunks Podcast – "Ranking All 30 Teams | 2025-26 NBA Season Preview"

Release Date: October 15, 2025
Hosts: Jay Skeets, Tas Melas, Trey Kirby, JD
Podcast: No Dunks (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Theme:
The No Dunks crew continues their comprehensive NBA season preview by ranking all 30 teams for the 2025-26 season across five custom tiers, dissecting each franchise’s outlook, strengths, weaknesses, and the burning questions facing their rosters.

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Episode Overview

With the NBA season less than a week away, the No Dunks team delivers their annual mega-preview. They've already hit over/unders, breakout stars, and award predictions; this episode is dedicated to ranking every NBA team, using their time-honored and often hilarious tier names. Each squad is discussed in-depth (with tangents galore), as the hosts debate projections, roster moves, and fan expectations—blending sharp basketball analysis and signature humor.
Tiers this year:

1. Title Contenders
2. Final Four Flirts
3. Playoff Locks
4. Play-In Hopefuls
5. Nut Dusters (bottom feeders)

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tier Definitions & Philosophy

[02:32] Trey Kirby: "Our top tier is the title contenders. That's followed by the final four flirts. Our playoff locks is the middle tier. Play-In Hopefuls is the fourth, and down at the bottom...we're just calling them the Nut Dusters!"

The crew notes it's about team quality more than parsing “Final Four Flirt vs Title Contender”—many teams will hover near the cusp, especially in a parity-heavy league.

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Notable Quotes, Debates & Moments

The “Nut Dusters” and Roadside Boiled Peanuts

• [03:16] Jay Skeets (on the infamous "Nut Dust Bowl"): "The Nut Dust bowl is when we select each one of the crappiest teams in the league, and we basically have a race to the bottom...if you have that team, you gotta do a shot glass of nut dust."
• [04:18] Tas Melas: “They can’t be salted...there’s not a lot of flavor, unlike a shotgun of nut dust. Yeah, that’s kind of full of flavor.”
• [05:27] Trey Kirby: "Bag of boiled peanuts instead of the nut dust bowl. Gotta eat the whole thing during a show. Something to think about."

Team-by-Team Snapshots (East/West Alphabetical)

Each squad covered, with hosts debating where to slot them, raising questions on roster fit, depth, star futures, and unexpected x-factors.

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Team Rankings & Segment Highlights

Atlanta Hawks

• Tier: Playoff Lock (Tier 3)
• [06:24] Skeets: "They’re a playoff lock. I can’t go higher."
• Big additions: Kristaps Porzingis, Nikhil Alexander-Walker
• If they miss the playoffs, Skeets predicts it’s the end of the Trae Young era.

Boston Celtics

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Key question: Without Tatum (injured), is this a stealth tank? Can Simons and Boucher add enough?
• [12:03] Skeets: "This is what Missoula wants, man..." (on the team's new identity).

Brooklyn Nets

• Tier: Nut Dusters (Tier 5)
• Panel revels in “Michael Peanut Jr.” nickname.
• Young talent but low expectations.

Charlotte Hornets

• Tier: Nut Dusters (Tier 5)
• Optimism for LaMelo and Brandon Miller, but defense and depth remain big issues.

Chicago Bulls

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4, bottom)
• Skeets: "Will Kobe White be traded and for who?"

Cleveland Cavaliers

• Tier: Title Contender (Tier 1, behind Knicks/Thunder/Nuggets)
• [23:34] Trey: "At the very least, though, they're the second best team in the Eastern Conference. That makes them a title contender."
• Importance of Mobley's development; ceiling rests on Garland/Mitchell’s postseason impact.

Dallas Mavericks

• Tier: Playoff Lock (Tier 3)
• Annual debate on whether Dallas is truly elite or just deep/playoff-safe.
• Anthony Davis now in goggles, Cooper Flag intrigue.

Denver Nuggets

• Tier: Title Contender (Tier 1)
• Additions: Cam Johnson, Jonas Valanciunas, Tim Hardaway Jr.
• [35:47] Skeets (cautious optimism): "Are we overreacting a little bit to the Nuggets' offseason moves?"

Golden State Warriors

• Tier: Final Four Flirt (Tier 2)
• Noted as better suited for playoffs than regular season. Top six health is everything.
• New vet signings: Jimmy Butler, Al Horford.

Houston Rockets

• Tier: Final Four Flirt (Tier 2)
• Massive KD addition, but question marks at guard with VanVleet injury.
• [45:57] Tas: "A lot to go right if you don't have a lead guard."

Indiana Pacers

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Halliburton’s Achilles changes everything; Nemhard and Siakam must step up.

LA Clippers

• Tier: Playoff Lock (Tier 3)
• Oldest team in league history. Deep, but hosts debate if they can be better than a #5 seed in brutal West.
• Salary cap investigation a “cloud” but probably doesn’t impact on-court performance.

LA Lakers

• Tier: Playoff Lock (Tier 3)
• Losing Dorian Finney-Smith could hurt defense; offense rests on Luka/LeBron/Reaves.
• [60:46] Tas: "I'm buying into Jared Vanderbilt being healthy and being out there..."

Memphis Grizzlies

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4, near top)
• Already riddled with frontcourt injuries; Ja and JJJ must carry them.

Miami Heat

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• "Top of the pops" in that tier. Playoff DNA, but aging core and Hero injury tempers expectations.

Milwaukee Bucks

• Tier: Playoff Lock (Tier 3, bottom)
• Giannis and new slotted-in vet Miles Turner keep the floor high, but guard play is shaky.
• [73:37] Tas: "Are they locked? I ain't betting against Giannis. I mean, maybe, maybe I'm guilty of doing that, but I'm fine, I'm fine locking them in."

Minnesota Timberwolves

• Tier: Title Contender (Tier 1, back end)
• Overlooked by Vegas. Ant leap expected.
• [81:15] Tas: "Yeah, I'm fine throwing them up there. I know people are reluctant to buy in..."

New Orleans Pelicans

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• With Zion, Murphy, and Herb Jones healthy, upside for more.

New York Knicks

• Tier: Title Contender (Tier 1, just behind Thunder/Nuggets)
• Improved bench, coaching change seen as big positive.
• "[87:01] Skeets: At this point it's a disappointing season if they're not in the conference finals. Definitely, definitely disappointing season."

Oklahoma City Thunder

• Tier: Consensus #1 Title Contender (Tier 1, top)
• Defending champs, everyone returns. Only question is: repeat the elite D?
• [91:23] Skeets: "Number one with a bullet. Yeah, I mean, let's not waste any time..."

Orlando Magic

• Tier: Final Four Flirt (Tier 2)
• Desmond Bane, Tyus Jones shore up guard play.
• [94:34] Tas: “They can flirt with the final four flirt ranking...they have way more depth this year.”

Philadelphia 76ers

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Embiid and PG health will swing outcome; could move up or down.
• [98:27] Jay Skeets: "No idea who's playing for this team any single night."

Phoenix Suns

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Rebuilt around Devin Booker, defensive toughness/Dillon Brooks, but little upside beyond .500.

Portland Trail Blazers

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Drew Holiday anchors D; Scoot and Sharpe need to show consistency.

Sacramento Kings

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Defense remains the Achilles heel.
• [112:27] Jay Skeets: “They can’t stop anyone...I used to be the biggest Kings fan...now I know what actual Kings fans feel like…”

San Antonio Spurs

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4, near top)
• Wemby leap expected, health of Fox crucial.

Toronto Raptors

• Tier: Play-In Hopeful (Tier 4)
• Big money, big expectations, but still searching for chemistry. Skeets concerned about Scottie Barnes’ preseason shot selection.

Utah Jazz

• Tier: Nut Duster (Tier 5, bottom)
• Rebuild officially starts now; hosts focus more on jerseys and rookie Ace Bailey than wins.

Washington Wizards

• Tier: Nut Duster (Tier 5, above Jazz/Nets)
• Cam Whitmore, Trey Johnson, and others to evaluate, but little hope for .500.

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Fun, Memorable Segments & Banter

• Nut Dust Rituals: Show leans into tradition of the "Nut Dust Bowl" and puns (e.g. "Michael Peanut Jr." for the Nets).
• Boiled Peanut Debate: Tas's horror at boiled peanuts [03:41].
• Goggle-Wearing NBA Player Rankings: Who’s the #2 goggle legend after Kareem? [27:17]
• Nature Karma: Running joke about “tree karma” for the Clippers breaking ground on new stadium [57:38].
• Strongest Fanbase: Who would win in a fanbase battle royale? (Miami’s “beach culture” vs Celtics “beans & attitude”) [133:46].
• Preseason Overreactions: "I usually put no stock into the preseason, haven’t loved what I’ve seen from Scottie Barnes..." – Skeets [119:34].

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:32] – Explains tier system for 2025-26
• [05:40] – First team ranked: Atlanta Hawks
• [13:18] – Brooklyn Nets: Origin of the “Michael Peanut Jr.” nickname
• [21:03] – Cleveland Cavaliers: Are they East favorites?
• [34:45] – Western Conference begins: Nuggets discussion
• [41:07] – Warriors: Are they a legit contender?
• [45:21] – Rockets without VanVleet; can KD bring title hope?
• [51:26] – Clippers’ age, depth, and the NBA salary cap probe
• [60:46] – Lakers: Defensive worries after roster shakeup
• [68:01] – Miami Heat: Is Norman Powell enough?
• [81:15] – Timberwolves: Is Vegas “disrespecting” Ant and co.?
• [91:15] – Thunder: Clear, unanimous top spot
• [94:04] – Magic: Are Paolo and Franz ready to break out?
• [98:27] – Sixers: Are Embiid and PG even tradable?
• [112:22] – Kings: hosts mourn team’s defensive state
• [116:45] – Spurs: Wemby’s year?
• [132:43] – Full tier results and recap
• [133:46] – “Strongest” and “weakest” NBA fanbases

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Conclusions & Takeaways

This episode is both a preview and a time capsule, as the hosts shuffle, debate, and joke their way through all 30 NBA teams, setting the state of the league for opening night.

• The parity is real: 12 teams end up in the "Play-In Hopefuls" tier
• The largest questions revolve around injury comebacks (Celtics, Pacers, Pelicans, Sixers, etc.) and new-look superteams (Clippers, Rockets with KD)
• Thunder, Nuggets, Knicks are seen as top tier; Cavaliers and Timberwolves are right there
• Magic on the rise
• Nets, Jazz, Wizards, and Hornets round out the bottom as the most likely Nut Dust Bowl participants

The show provides a smart and often hilarious primer for NBA diehards and newcomers alike—complete with inside jokes, running bits, and bold predictions.
If you want to know what to expect—and what to watch for—this episode is a true NBA fan’s must-listen.

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On Hawks’ pressure: "If they’re not a playoff lock, this is the last year we see Trae Young with the Atlanta Hawks. Book it." – Skeets [06:36]
• On Giannis: "Are you betting against Giannis? I ain’t betting against Giannis." – Tas [73:37]
• On Ant and the Wolves: "You can’t bet against Ant. That’s part of it." – Tas [82:54]
• On the Thunder: "Let’s not waste any time on this. The Thunder—slot them ahead of the Nuggets." – Skeets [91:23]
• On the Suns’ owner: "He said, it’s not going to be measured in wins and losses this year. It’s going to be measured in success. What? That’s a real riddle." – Trey [102:43]

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Final Tiered Rankings (by Grouped Tiers)

Tier 1 – Title Contenders:

• Thunder, Nuggets, Knicks, Cavs, Timberwolves

Tier 2 – Final Four Flirts:

• Rockets, Warriors, Magic

Tier 3 – Playoff Locks:

• Clippers, Lakers, Hawks, Pistons, Mavericks, Bucks

Tier 4 – Play-In Hopefuls:

• Spurs, Grizzlies, Heat, Celtics, Raptors, Pacers, Sixers, Blazers, Bulls, Suns, Kings, Pelicans

Tier 5 – Nut Dusters:

• Hornets, Nets, Wizards, Jazz

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For those seeking a sharp, lighthearted, and fully up-to-date portrait of every NBA team before tipoff, this episode covers it all—with keen insights, laughs, and a few wild predictions to track all season.

Transcript

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[Jay Skeets]

This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names.

[Tas Melas]

Football is back.

[Jay Skeets]

That means it's tailgate time and this season the only meat I'm going to grill is Dietz and Watson. I'm loving the Black Angus Dietz dogs. They're flavor packed and you can tell they are made with the highest quality ingredients. Sundays just got a whole lot better. Visit deat&watson.com the right way to learn more about the deets difference. Good morning sweet world and welcome to the no Dunks podcast. It's Wednesday, October 15, 2025. We are less than one week away from the start of the NBA season. I'm Jay Skeets here in the classic factory and alongside me as always, Tas Melas.

[Tas Melas]

Podcast listeners, this is for you.

[Jay Skeets]

Next to him it's my top shot hot boy Trey Kirby Ayo Ayo and over yonder making the magic happen. Super producer JD hello.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh there he is.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, right to your camera.

[Tas Melas]

Great switches.

[Jay Skeets]

We're having a great show today. Thanks for joining us. Hit the like button. Subscribe Podcast Listeners five star ratings and Reviews Today we continue our NBA season preview series. We've made our over under predictions. We've drafted potential first time all stars. We've we picked all the major award winners and today we rank all 30 teams across five tiers. Trey our tears my man. What are they this year?

[Trey Kirby]

Oh our tears my man. Our top tier is the title contenders. That's followed by the final four flirts. Our playoff locks is the middle tier play and hopefuls is the fourth tier and down at the bottom. We don't know who's gonna be the number one draft pick this year. A few guys who are in the mix, so we're just calling them the Nut Dusters.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, right.

[Trey Kirby]

Because these are potential entries in the nut dust bowl once we get a little further into the season.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. And for those that don't know, maybe new to the show this year, the Nut Dust bowl is when we select each one of the crappiest teams in the league, and we basically have a race to the bottom. Try and avoid the worst of the worst, because if you have that team, you gotta do a shot glass of nut dust.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, you do. We're saving it up the whole year this year.

[Tas Melas]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm not. I. I'm. It's in my mind. We got nuts just flying out the cabinet back home. So I'm gonna hang onto my dust for a full six months. It'll be. We can maybe do, like, a full glass.

[Jay Skeets]

I was gonna say, should we crank it up a little? Like the shot glass, dare I say, was almost too easy.

[Tas Melas]

It's absolutely flavorful as well.

[Jay Skeets]

Right?

[Trey Kirby]

It's pure flavor.

[Tas Melas]

It's tasty. I had my worst nut experience since moving down to the south this past weekend.

[Jay Skeets]

What happened?

[Tas Melas]

I had boiled peanuts.

[Jay Skeets]

Not a fan.

[Trey Kirby]

You don't like it?

[Tas Melas]

Oh, I thought I would. I thought I would. I thought I was putting it off. For 12 years, I finally had them for the first time because I like. I like nuts. At a sporting game, sure, I thought they'd be shelled, but instead you got a. You got to break into a hot, soft peanut shell, and then you taste a real, real soft peanut. They don't taste like. I mean, they taste like peanuts, but.

[Jay Skeets]

It'S just hard to get through.

[Tas Melas]

They can't be salted because they have the around. There's not a lot of flavor, Unlike a shotgun of nut dust. Yeah, that's kind of full of flavor.

[Jay Skeets]

So maybe boiled peanuts. Our guy, Jared.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, he's gonna be.

[Jay Skeets]

He's a good old Southern boy. That's the thing. He's the type of guy you're driving down some interstate or some, like, country road.

[Tas Melas]

You're like, oh, man.

[Jay Skeets]

Whoa, hold on. Boiled peanuts. They're selling them on the side. Like, he'll always pull over.

[Tas Melas]

That's why I get sucked in, I guess, too, because you just see him on every road.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Anything that's on the side of the road, you're like, that's probably good.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Usually true.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

But I'm not a fan.

[Tas Melas]

200 proof moonshine on the side of one road. Not for me. But also you got to go through the actual shell with your fingers. Like it gets moist.

[Trey Kirby]

I thought you ate the shell.

[Jay Skeets]

That's what some people do, I think. Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. Soft some people do.

[Jay Skeets]

Which I find even grosser.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Anyway. Not a great experience.

[Trey Kirby]

It's weird. I did it the opposite way. I went boiled peanuts within the first two months we were here.

[Tas Melas]

Right. Oh.

[Trey Kirby]

And rarely have gone back. But I see him and I was like, yeah, maybe I should give him another chance.

[Tas Melas]

So maybe that's not worth it, man.

[Trey Kirby]

Bag of boiled peanuts instead of the nut dust bowl. Gotta eat the whole thing during a show. Something to think about.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, let's get into it. We're gonna try and do this under 90 minutes. We got all 30 teams to rank here. Yeah, right. He says, okay.

[Tas Melas]

You never know.

[Trey Kirby]

Some of these are easy.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, right. We don't need to spend a whole lot of time. We talked about a lot of these. We talked about all these teams with the over under prediction. So let's do it. The Atlanta Hawks.

[Tas Melas]

That's a tough one. This might last a while.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

This one is actually an interesting one. But look, I think in general we get a little lost in the sauce when it comes to the names of the tiers.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

It should just be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Don't worry so much about if it's a final four flirt versus a title contender. Is this a top tier team or is this a second tier team? We're talking about the Atlanta Hawks. 40 and 42 last season, eighth in the Eastern Conference. They added Kristaps Porzingis, Nikhil Alexander Walker, Luke Canard. And they're hoping Jalen Johnson stays healthy.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

What do we think?

[Jay Skeets]

They're a playoff lock.

[Trey Kirby]

They're a playoff lock.

[Jay Skeets]

I can't go higher.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, you can't go higher. The question is between tier 3 and tier 4. If you want to call them that. Trey. It's playoff lock or play and hopeful.

[Jay Skeets]

If this is not a playoff lock, then this is the last year we see Trey Young with the Atlanta Hawks. Book it.

[Tas Melas]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

If they are not make the playoffs.

[Jay Skeets]

A top 60. Yeah, exactly. Or at least maybe even coming through the plan. They should not even be in the play in is my point. They should be in the top six. Be in there because this is like at least on paper, the best squad they've put around. Trae Young, the most surrounding two way talent. No doubt there are expectations now, and those expectations are to get into the top six. And I actually think they will. So that's where I put them in Tier 3 here in the playoff.

[Tas Melas]

I think we know that there are going to be four teams that are higher than them in the Eastern Conference, and so it's. It's bordering on a situation where they drop below the top six. I think it can. It could be that this is the.

[Jay Skeets]

Hawks we're talking about. It's more likely they'll be 41 and 41. But I am saying I'm, like, doubling down. It has to be a playoff watch. They have to be. Or they have to pivot from the Trey Young experience, in my opinion.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, there's a reason to be hopeful with a bunch of these guys, as you mentioned. Trey. Jalen Johnson, that guy is frigging awesome in preseason. That guy is taking boards down from the defensive end and taking it all the way to the other end. So there's lots of good reasons to be excited about this team, but we shall see. So we can throw them in a playoff lock.

[Trey Kirby]

Absolutely. Playoff lock sounds good. I think they're the fourth best team in the Eastern Conference.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Tas Melas]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Jay Skeets]

So borderline tier 2, but I think we got them in the right spot.

[Trey Kirby]

I think that's good, though I was not encouraged. Trey Young tweeting. It's just business with, like, some weird emojis. This guy's up for an extension, and it seems like the Hawks are hesitating to give it to him. So I wonder if that hangs over the season. Don't like it.

[Tas Melas]

Don't like it. Are you talking about that announcement that he's making tonight as we record here on Wednesday, October 15th? That. That thing? He's making an announcement sitting across from Adam Lefk.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I saw that. But no, he tweeted. It's just business. Like a little dot, dot, dot, then some worrying emojis.

[Jay Skeets]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Tas Melas]

Well, it might be tied to that. It might be tied to what he's announcing with Adam left.

[Jay Skeets]

What's he announcing?

[Tas Melas]

I don't know. It looks like a LeBron Hennessy, basically. It's some sort of ad is what it feels like. What else would it be?

[Trey Kirby]

He didn't.

[Jay Skeets]

He.

[Trey Kirby]

He also just did a song with Quavo and two chains or something like that.

[Tas Melas]

Maybe that. Maybe. But I don't know. But you're saying if they're in top four lock, then you're saying they're above.

[Trey Kirby]

I think, Cleveland Cavs and Orlando Magic.

[Tas Melas]

And so you're saying they're above Detroit?

[Trey Kirby]

I think so, yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, stuff like that.

[Tas Melas]

We'll see.

[Trey Kirby]

We'll see. Next team up for grabs, the Boston Celtics. Last year they went 61 and 21, finished second in the Eastern Conference. But they got a lot of guys who are not playing for the team this year. Jason Tatum, question mark. But at least not starting the season. Maybe he comes back towards the end. Krist Porzingis, Drew Holiday, Al Horford, Luke Cornett, all gone. Anthony Simons is in. Chris Boucher is in. Their coaches just beat their media 57 to 4 in a 12 minute game. So I don't know if that's going to influence your decision, but if it comes down to it, they got some players there on the coaching staff.

[Jay Skeets]

How much did you read into that?

[Trey Kirby]

I read every article I could and watched every clip I could.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, so. So you, so you'll know it was supposed to be just a media run right at first. And then Missoula's like, f that playing us. You're playing us. Let'. Oh, we're going to beat your ass. Which they, of course.

[Trey Kirby]

And a full court pressed for 12 straight minutes.

[Jay Skeets]

Missoula, you sicko.

[Trey Kirby]

It was 574 in 12 minutes.

[Jay Skeets]

Holy crap. I mean, respect to the one or two people that scored four points.

[Trey Kirby]

Two layups were made. I saw Noah Dell.

[Jay Skeets]

Did they.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know what happened. Maybe it was a transition sort of thing, but Noah Delzel over at Celtic Blog was like, I was happy to get a rebound. And these are like, I mean, Joe Missoula played D1 basketball, you know, but years ago there's they. Phil Pressy was like a cup of coffee guy in the NBA. He's around for a little bit. He's on the team. God, Jam.

[Jay Skeets]

God.

[Trey Kirby]

Junior was playing for the team. There's other D1 guys. So a lot of skills on the Celtics.

[Tas Melas]

Mid court shots.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, they destroyed them. Wouldn't have gone like that if I was playing, but you know, we're here in Atlanta.

[Jay Skeets]

How many points would we have scored if we were out there?

[Trey Kirby]

Easily six.

[Jay Skeets]

I agree. Okay, so the Celtics, where do you want to.

[Trey Kirby]

Where they at though?

[Tas Melas]

Lock them in, I guess you gotta put the hopeful. The playing hopeful is probably the place to put them.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Because the teams that we just mentioned in the Eastern Conference should be above them. And then we're getting into essentially six teams above them. I mean, close to it. They, they would hope to be that sixth best team. I'd Say they'd hope to be the.

[Jay Skeets]

Fifth best team, but what happens when Jayson Tatum's back on the court by Christmas? I don't know, man. Starting to think this guy may be back sooner than we first thought.

[Trey Kirby]

A little dunkey. Yeah, Did a little dunk.

[Jay Skeets]

I wrote a question for each of these teams as we go through here. I do wonder, will they? Should they? Can they, in this very mediocre east, explore the idea of a little stealth tank type of year?

[Tas Melas]

Right.

[Jay Skeets]

Like, if it gets off to slow start, obviously you slow play Tatum, you know, maybe even Jalen Brown's banged up. Like, could they, like, hey, why don't we just take sort of a sabbatical year and really get a good pick or something like that? I think it's in play, but maybe the. Maybe the east is just so bad it doesn't matter.

[Tas Melas]

Who are they going to be worst out of five, six teams?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, that's the thing. Well, I mean, you don't have to be the worst team in the league to get the number one pick anymore. No, you got to be the 10th worst team in the league. That's how it goes.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, but they are running Fox. Yeah, right.

[Jay Skeets]

So could be there. I'm a. I'm the play and I'm tier four with the, with the Boston Celtics. And we. I don't know, I guess we could be made to look silly with this. Like, you guys. Have you guys talked up obviously the over under podcast about like, oh, this is what Missoula wants, man.

[Tas Melas]

Exactly.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't think that could possibly tank.

[Jay Skeets]

No. Yeah, true, true, true, true. But you're fine with that spot?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I think that's good.

[Jay Skeets]

They'll probably be near the top of that tier and I know we put them in order, sort of, so.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, it wouldn't be surprising if they're the seventh seed. And like, that's a good season for a team that lost, what, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of their top eight guys going into this season.

[Tas Melas]

Pretty weird.

[Trey Kirby]

They're gonna be weird to see Simon's gonna be on the team in February. Who knows?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Who's.

[Trey Kirby]

Is Chris Boucher going to be starting for this team?

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. But at the same time, we talk about an all NBA guy on this team and two other guys that were all star talks that we had conversations about with Derek White and Payne Pritchard.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, I got talent. I'm more hopeful. I think they should. I wouldn't be surprised if they're sixth, but it would be easy if they were eighth. Yeah. You know.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Right up in there. Up next, the Brooklyn Nets. Told you guys before the show when I was going through these alphabetically in my head just to test my steel trap of a brain. Brooklyn Nets, third team on the list and I forgot them.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, wow.

[Jay Skeets]

Right away.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, right away. 26, Charlotte.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

There's only one team with a B. No, the Brooklyn Nets, 26 and 56 last year, 12th in the Eastern Conference. Kevin Aquino over on Twitter changed the way I think about this team because he called Michael Porter Jr. Michael Peanut Jr. I know, because this is a nut dust team.

[Jay Skeets]

The Brooklyn Nuts.

[Trey Kirby]

It's too good.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean, it's so good. Yeah. We are obviously slotting them into the last tier. They are the dusting teams of all dusting teams.

[Trey Kirby]

You think Cashew Thomas works.

[Tas Melas]

References here?

[Jay Skeets]

I wrote. My question for the Nets Is.

[Tas Melas]

Pecan. No.

[Trey Kirby]

Acorn.

[Jay Skeets]

Acorn. Demon.

[Tas Melas]

Acorn.

[Jay Skeets]

I thought you said that.

[Tas Melas]

That's the way it came out. That's. That's the way my brain formulated that.

[Jay Skeets]

I guess we put them in the last tier. Like there is talent still on this team. There is Michael Peanut Jr. Which man, that might stick. That is good. Nick Claxton, obviously. Cam Thomas. Decent fringe guys right in. Heywood Highsmith, Terrence Mann, Noah Clowney. We love Kobe Bufkin. I don't know where he is on the depth chart for this team because they drafted like three or four point guards. And my question was, which rookie will I end up caring the most about on the Brooklyn Nets, if any? I'm not sure.

[Tas Melas]

I think it's Ben Sarof. Maybe he's good.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, maybe it's him.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm a Danny Wolf guy myself. The Wolf Man.

[Jay Skeets]

Sure. It could be Igor for sure. You know, I guess we worked out.

[Tas Melas]

With Tyson Etienne, who's a two way guy. I don't know if he's going to play a lot for the Brooklyn Nets, but he's there. So we have, you know, personal connection there.

[Trey Kirby]

They got a lot of Skyhawks personnel on this team.

[Jay Skeets]

Right, right. Is that good? No. No. I'm sorry. So they're at the bottom.

[Trey Kirby]

All right. The Charlotte hornuts, they were 19 and 63 last year. 14th in the Eastern Conference. Only 47 games for LaMelo Ball, 27 for Brandon Miller. Their big addition this summer was Con Knipple, who they drafted number four along with who else? They get Liam McNeely right at the end of the first round. Ryan Kalkbrenner might be starting for them. A big center out of Creighton. And Scion James, I think was their other draft pick a local guy. Dookie, where do we think the Charlotte Hornets are going to be? You want to risk it and put them in the play in hopefuls is kind of the question.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, it's that or the bottom tier. I think I'm. Tier, bottom tier. Team, bottom tier. Excuse me.

[Tas Melas]

In the east, it's hard to keep them out of the play in hopefuls, but that's exactly what they are, is that it's a. It's a whole section of optimism. I don't think they'll get there by their history. But they made all those picks, as you said, to hope that they play a little defense. It's really kind of up to, I think, the vets that they got to tap in to Lamello Ball to get them there and Colin Sexton and Grant Williams to change the man, Spencer Dinwiddie around him. Really, that's. That's what they are there for. Will they tap into Lamello and get him into a different version of this, A different tier of this conversation, A different version of this team? Can they just be a hopeful? I think.

[Trey Kirby]

I hope.

[Tas Melas]

I hope they can. Especially in the East.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, I got him ahead of the Nets at least.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, okay. Yes. But I still have them in that tier.

[Trey Kirby]

I think so too. But I heard Zach Lowe have a big conversation about it with Nikais Duncan this week. I still believe in Lamelo Ball. I think he's a good player. He just hasn't figured out how to win in the NBA yet. And there's not really a team built around him to win right now. Like, their best perimeter defender is probably Colin Sexton. That's not great. Their best interior defender is a rookie. That's not great.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Their big returning vet is Grant Williams. They're like, man, this guy's going to be healthy this year. I don't know.

[Jay Skeets]

Right.

[Tas Melas]

Still, they should make the play in hopeful category. Even if you. Even if you stink. I mean, you know.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, then you're just going to say every team in the Eastern Conference is a play in hopeful, which is sort of fair almost.

[Tas Melas]

Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess you'd have three teams that ain't even going to smell it.

[Trey Kirby]

Nets and Wizards for sure.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, the third team is the question.

[Jay Skeets]

I get all these questions that you're bringing up. Yeah, the Lamelo thing. Look, I'm excited to see Brandon Miller hopefully back and healthy. I mean, he was good before his injuries, scoring 21 a game and you know, they had something going there. My question was how long until Ryan Kalkbrenner is starting at center on this team? They lost Nurkic, they lost Mark Williams. They have some front court depth questions. Diabate, I guess, is starting. But Kalkbrenner is a five year college veteran, like, you know, who is named.

[Tas Melas]

Defensive player of the year by the coaches.

[Jay Skeets]

I was impressed when I saw him obviously in some.

[Trey Kirby]

Multiple times, I think.

[Tas Melas]

Right.

[Trey Kirby]

He's like maybe four time defensive player of the year or something like that. He's looking starting by November.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm still in the bottom tier. I'm cheering for him.

[Tas Melas]

He's a Blue Jay. Let's go, Blue Jays. Let's get it done.

[Trey Kirby]

Nice.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, it's fine. Keeping them in the bottom three. That's. That's wild. They're being led by Lamelo Ball, former all star. Then they're in the nut Duster section. I mean, that's, that's rough in the Eastern Conference.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I mean, stay healthy, Lamello. And we're looking foolish. I think they could be. They could easily shoot up to 12th in the Eastern Conference if he stays healthy.

[Jay Skeets]

Chicago Bulls.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, title contenders, I'm thinking. Yeah, 10 seed contenders. 39 and 43 last year, ninth in the Eastern Conference. Lonzo Ball. See you later. Isaac Okoro, year here. They signed Josh giddy to a four year, $100 million deal. Yeah, Matus. Buzz Ellis is the star of the preseason so far. You know, they are the very last team in the play in hopefuls here.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean, they have to be there. That's.

[Trey Kirby]

That's where they go. Yeah, that is where they go. That's where they live.

[Tas Melas]

But last, they can't even bump somebody into play and hopeful ranking.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, there might be some Western Conference teams they're ahead of. I think they're. Maybe they're better than the Kings.

[Jay Skeets]

We'll see.

[Tas Melas]

Okay. We'll see. Well, we can throw them in that category.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, they ain't going any higher. No. They still can't believe Tim Legler said he thinks they're sixth in the Eastern Conference. Prove me wrong.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow. Legs likes them.

[Trey Kirby]

Legs likes them.

[Jay Skeets]

My question was, will Kobe White be traded and for who? If so, because he's in the final year of that deal, which is like. Pays him like 12 to 13 million.

[Trey Kirby]

He is underpaid.

[Jay Skeets]

He's reportedly seeking. You know, they all. They all seek like a $30 million per year sort of contract. That's what Giddy wanted, obviously. Came down a little bit. But could they. Could they move off of him? And you could see him being an enticing player for a franchise or two for sure. So that's my question. You think he'll be moved?

[Trey Kirby]

He could be, but I don't really trust the front office to make a good move. He should have been traded last year. They could have gotten a lot more for him when he had this year and then the ability to sign him afterwards. He's making what you said, $12 million. You can't get a good player back from that. And it's probably not a high pick package as well for a guy who's never made an all star team. He's deep into his career like he's a good player and he's gotten a lot better on the Bulls. So I think it's more likely that they end up keeping him around because he's a nice fit next to Giddy. They need somebody who can actually shoot the ball from outside and Kobe can.

[Jay Skeets]

He can. I'm glad you brought up. He's sort of been there for a while. This is his. He's going into his seventh season as a Chicago Bull. I had to triple check that. I was like, really just feels like a. Still a young guy to me. Maybe it's the way he plays. And I guess he's been sort of forgo in the Bulls just continually being mediocre. Mediocre. And you know, you know, we're not getting like playoff moments, of course, from Kobe White. So I don't know. Yeah. Will he be traded or not? Let's hear your trade predictions with Kobe, if he is.

[Trey Kirby]

All right, our first top tier potential here. The Cleveland Cavaliers, 64 and 18 last season, first in the Eastern Conference. Ty Jerome is gone, but they're going to get a full season from DeAndre Hunter. Currently Darius Garland and Max Strus banged up to start the season. Where do we like the Cavs?

[Jay Skeets]

Well, I'll tell you right now, Fanduel has the Cavs at plus 650 to win the NBA championship. And that's only. That's second behind obviously the Oklahoma City Thunder at plus 200 as the odds. Second right now. Thunder, Cavs, Nuggets and Knicks top four in terms of odds to win.

[Tas Melas]

The whole thing sounds like a. A gambling idea because it's just basically there's a gambling website. Well, they're the highest Eastern Conference team you would think. And I think that's why everyone. Trey was just reluctant to say second over like a Denver Nuggets or you? Basically, it's the top team in the east, basically, is what it is. After seeing what they did last year in the regular season, are they the second biggest favorite to win the championship? No, I don't think they are, but because everybody, everybody who gambles, everybody who bets has got to take an Eastern Conference team higher than now.

[Jay Skeets]

The pitchers just took the Thunder to seven games. I mean, it was.

[Tas Melas]

What do you mean?

[Jay Skeets]

Damn close. The point is some, some Eastern Conference representative is going to be there. A lot of people are thinking it's the Cavs or the next and you just got to win 4 out of 7 is my point. Like that's when you get there. I wouldn't do it either.

[Tas Melas]

I agree.

[Jay Skeets]

You're saying that you would have like four teams above them in the Western Conference.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I'm just thinking against any Eastern Conference, that's what the line makers have to do. They say that one, but I am surprised that the Knicks are not higher.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, they're like, yeah, okay, that. Well, that's a little interesting. They're plus 1300 to the plus 650. I said of the cat. So, yeah, that is a little shocking. All we get to with the Cavs is we know they're going to be an awesome regular season team. We're probably putting them, as we're saying here, in a title contending position. But are their players good enough come the playoffs like, like to level up and stay healthy and all that and win four series in a row? I mean, we don't know. We haven't seen it. It's never even two, three in a row at this point.

[Trey Kirby]

I got my eyes on you. Darius Garland, he's the big question mark for me that could maybe take them over the top. He was a great clutch player last year, but in the past two postseasons he's been banged up or underperformed. Maybe they go hand in hand. Come playoff time, they need him to be awesome. They need Jared Allen to show up for these playoff games as well. At the very least, though, they're the second best team in the Eastern Conference. That makes him a title contender.

[Jay Skeets]

I think so, too. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. If you get to the finals, you're a title contender, I suppose. Yeah. I think a lot of it is on Evan Mobley making it his fourth quarter more so than just being a predictable guard. Play on that team over and over again when it comes to crunch time. But getting there far healthier is important. So it is. It hits a lot on Darius Garland shoulders. Even a little on Jared Allen to get Donovan Mitchell there. We're at a point where he doesn't have to freaking carry the team. So we'll. We shall see.

[Jay Skeets]

And I mean, this could be another massive year in the growth of Evan Mobley. Like John Hollinger has Mobley as like the seventh best guy in the league potentially like very high, maybe too high for some. Like he has him above Donovan Mitchell, above Jalen Brunson.

[Trey Kirby]

So training dpoi and he really took a step forward on the offensive end last year. Let's see if he can cook. Like, let's see what he can do with the ball in his hands. Because it would be good for the Cavs to have a third option of somebody who can go and get a basket outside of Mitchell and Garland, who, you know, for as good as they are, are still smaller guards which can get a little overwhelmed in the biggest moments of the season.

[Jay Skeets]

We'll see.

[Trey Kirby]

There's, there's no other way to say.

[Tas Melas]

It was not used in clutch situations last year.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I thought you said earlier this preseason. I thought it was a good point. Um, it was one of the shows that you guys did. Like the Cavs are going to go as far maybe as Evan Mobley sort of levels up and can take them.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

And, and the confidence they have in them to go to him later and stuff like that, which I do agree with.

[Tas Melas]

Kenny Atkinson said that they are going to use him more and he was literally used only 11.9% in clutch situations. That was his usage rate last year in the regular season. That's fricking low. This is Evan Moby. That's low compared to a near 40% for Mitchell, a near 30% for Garland, who was awesome in those clutch sit. But they're just too predictable. And when it came to playoff time, you know what's going to happen. The ball handlers are going to do it.

[Trey Kirby]

You know, that's the question is like, what can Evan Mobley do? Like big guys aren't often the clutch option for their team and he is a big guy. He doesn't have a Dirk Nowitzki like game where you can give him the ball and he's going to work to the mid post and shoot over the top. Like what's his go to move or way of being an efficient player in the clutch.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, he's got to have, he has more of a mid range game, but he's got to just get to that put it on the floor, turn around type of shot.

[Jay Skeets]

I think I, I'm too Much of a dum dum to actually look. But it'd be interesting to see what Chris Bosch's usage percentage was in the clutch, like in the sort of Heatles days and stuff like that. You can't help but if it was higher or comparable. Yeah, I don't know. Somebody do that for me.

[Tas Melas]

It's gotta be higher.

[Jay Skeets]

I would think it was higher too. Yeah. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Because you said has to be 12% and regular. Yeah, I mean, they were injured against the Pacers in round two, so there's that, but still.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, we got him in the top tier.

[Trey Kirby]

There's a couple of things I don't like about doing this alphabetically. Number one is that it takes us forever to get to a Western Conference.

[Jay Skeets]

You said this before. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Now we're finally to the Dallas Mavericks. The second thing I don't like is that currently, as the NBA goes, when we get to the end, it's just a disaster. Like the last two teams we're going to talk about are the Jazz and the Wizards.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Also the first five teams that we talked about can't even sniff a final four. Just alphabetically, unfortunately.

[Trey Kirby]

But our first lesser conference team is the Dallas mavericks. They went 39, 43 last season, finished 10th in the Western Conference. That somehow got them the number one draft pick. Who is Cooper Flag. Their starting point guard is d' Angelo Russell Anthony Davis there for an entire season as well.

[Jay Skeets]

What does that mean though? Entire season?

[Trey Kirby]

Entire 68 games.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

That'd be a great season for Davis.

[Tas Melas]

Come on. He's gonna have healthy eyes wearing goggles for the first time in his career.

[Trey Kirby]

He won't miss games for getting poked.

[Tas Melas]

In the eyes, which happened three times in 13 months. He had eye injuries, so that's something.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

So could he become the second greatest NBA player to ever wear goggles? Kareem1 1. Who am I forgetting?

[Trey Kirby]

You're saying it has to be like a all time goggle wearer. Not like. Not like Dwyane Wade putting goggles.

[Tas Melas]

Not Amari Stoddom.

[Jay Skeets]

He's probably number two right now.

[Trey Kirby]

I would say.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, he was the guy I would go with.

[Jay Skeets]

But you're going to take Anthony Davis career over Marty Stunemars? Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Okay, so I guess he's already number two.

[Jay Skeets]

We're not going. Horace Grant, as great as he might be.

[Trey Kirby]

Number three, Kurt Rambus. How does he factor in actual glasses?

[Tas Melas]

Antoine Car. No, right.

[Jay Skeets]

Good. Big dog himself.

[Trey Kirby]

Kirk Heinrich. Best guard who wears goggles.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes.

[Trey Kirby]

It's all big guys. It is. I Mean, think about it.

[Tas Melas]

Protecting the eyes.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm a guy that gets poked in the eyes all the time. I come in. You have come in every three months.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Just what happens when you're a big guy? A big boy grilling on the roof. Guys like that video. I never see a big boy grill on the roof.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I love that.

[Trey Kirby]

I think about that song every single day. Every single day. Sometimes when I'm going to bed. I never see a big boy grill on the roof.

[Jay Skeets]

That's the. The one where they come out on.

[Trey Kirby]

It's so funny.

[Jay Skeets]

I haven't watched that in a while. So good.

[Tas Melas]

Where do they go?

[Trey Kirby]

Where do these big boys go? This is a big boys team. They're grilling on the roof.

[Tas Melas]

They're huge.

[Trey Kirby]

Are they a playoff lock or are they a play in hopeful, a tier three or a tier four?

[Jay Skeets]

I think they're a play in hopeful. At the top of our list so far.

[Tas Melas]

I'm locking them in for the playoffs. Wow. I know.

[Jay Skeets]

This is what. Yeah, we disagreed on this one. In the over under production pocket, like I'm. I was more tough being in the Westers for sure.

[Tas Melas]

Tough being a top six team in the West. I'm comfortable putting them there. I can understand why they'd be a hopeful, but there are literally when I look at. Are there six better teams? I mean, it's. It's arguable for sure.

[Jay Skeets]

Big team, man.

[Trey Kirby]

This is a big team. But they're also a pretty deep team outside of the guard position. I'm like, they have so many good 3, 4 and 5 players. I think Cooper is going to be awesome. They're probably. Realistically, when you're looking at the Western Conference, they're like anywhere from five to nine.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yes.

[Jay Skeets]

Which will probably be separated by like four wins or. Yeah. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Maybe two games. Right.

[Trey Kirby]

So for me, I'm happy to put him as a playoff lock here. Yeah. I think Anthony Davis is awesome. A little underrated.

[Tas Melas]

He is.

[Trey Kirby]

Well by everybody except for Nico Harrison. Nico Harrison understands.

[Jay Skeets]

He sees the vision. Yeah. I mean, so, okay, so they're going to start at their big positions. Cooper, AD and then lively.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

I do wonder. Yeah. I'm fascinated to see this whole double big sort of lineup situation because we still think AD at the 5 at times is actually the best way they can go, in my opinion. But he doesn't want to do that for a full season, nor should he.

[Tas Melas]

Right.

[Jay Skeets]

I think you do it in spot minutes. You got Lively and Gafford. Again, like those are that's an awesome one two center position. But how will Kid sort of manage this at the end of games is what I'm getting at because 85 is probably still the best.

[Tas Melas]

They also believe in Jason Kidd signing him to another extension. Guy got extensions back to back years. Why we're gonna extend you this year. We really like you. We're gonna extend you again. I guess it's to after the fact that he may have been able to get an interview from the New York Knicks just to give him a little.

[Jay Skeets]

Stability, a little pat on the back.

[Tas Melas]

We really like you. We really like you. Stick around. I like you anyway. They do have a solid, solid roster. That's. That's what I'm back for.

[Trey Kirby]

D' Angelo Russell. There's a lot on d' Angelo Russell's shoulders here.

[Jay Skeets]

We'll see.

[Tas Melas]

Coupe point guard Coop is going to happen a decent amount.

[Jay Skeets]

Sure.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm not so much worried about the playmaking. Like Russell's a decent enough playmaker.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Anthony Davis can pass the ball a little bit and then Cooper will make plays as well. It's more like they need d' Angelo Russell to shoot the ball because there's not a lot of shooting on this team. We've been told Anthony Davis is going to start shooting threes ever since Alvin Gentry was on our show in the starters days.

[Tas Melas]

It ain't going to happen.

[Trey Kirby]

It ain't happening.

[Tas Melas]

No. For a few games in the past.

[Jay Skeets]

But Clay sort of hit or miss at this point of his career. I feel like d' Angelo Russell, they need a huge, huge year. Really good, just solid, good efficiency year from d' Angelo Russell. I'm not banking on that. Nor am I literally banking on the fact that his greatest Cooper flag probably will be or is going to be like he has a rookie and you're like, here, man, run this offense. Okay. That usually doesn't translate to a lot of wins in the NBA for a rook to take over like that immediately, but you guys got him as playoff blocks.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Voted. That's fine.

[Tas Melas]

We will see him in. We'll see Max Christie out there to help out. I mean, they got off the ball, guys. I think there's some shooting along with Clay. They've got so many weapons. Anthony Davis in the bubble is what I was gonna. What I was researching. That was his three point peak. Right. During the bubble days.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. Best jump shooting ever.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

In an empty gym.

[Tas Melas]

They just need another pandemic, I guess, for him to be awesome. Those were the good times.

[Trey Kirby]

They got a lot of moves. They could make as well. So it wouldn't be surprising to see him add somebody. Hey, Kobe White, come on down.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Be perfect.

[Jay Skeets]

That would be nice.

[Tas Melas]

I have so many bits and you could trade it.

[Trey Kirby]

Cooper for Kobe. Who says no? He's like, I don't know.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Trey Kirby]

That guy's too young. We're trying to win now.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. The man. We'll throw in a super future first round pick. It's like, please, no, no, please. I can't keep track.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I don't want to. All these future considerations. I like this. Live in the now.

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[Tas Melas]

Limu Cable.

[Jay Skeets]

Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundred with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

[Kraken Representative]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Jay Skeets]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Trey Kirby]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Jay Skeets]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates.

[Trey Kirby]

Excludes Massachusetts Denver Nuggets. They went 50 and 32 last season. Fourth in the Western Conference. That's crazy. 50 wins fourth in the Western Conference. They added Cam Johnson for Michael Peanut Jr. And then, of course, they beefed up the they got a beefy bench.

[Jay Skeets]

It's better, it's better, it's better. I do wonder, are we overreacting a little bit to the Nuggets off season moves? I think you brought this up, Trey. You sort of wanted to, like, pump the brakes a little bit on some of these Moves that they made, which are good. Cam Johnson appears to be an upgrade over Michael Peanut Jr. Valentunas as the backup big. Signed Tim Hardaway Jr. As a three point shooter because they are really bad at that. They don't take or shoot a lot of them. Yeah. Resigned former wing Bruce Brown, who was complete garbage after he left Denver. So we're just like thinking, oh, he's back with Jokic. He's going to be good again. Maybe that's the case. Maybe he's got to get back in that mountain air. Cowboy hat hits different when you're there big time. Right. Boots make a different sound on the linoleum.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

As they say, they do. But are we overreacting a little bit? I mean, this is still going to be a really good team. And the point of this is they are definitely a title contender because this looks like the best team in a while that Jokic has had around him. But it probably all still hinges on like playoff. Jamal Murray. Yep. How great he is and then internal growth and development from Peyton Watson and Christian Brown. And maybe Christian Brown is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Peyton Watson, Julian Stroth are question marks for sure. The thing with the Nuggets bench to me is that, yes, they're better for sure. Valanchunis is good. Tim Hardaway Jr. I think if any other team signs and they're like, okay, who cares? But he's on the Nuggets. He's going to get shots.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Bruce Brown, we'll see.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

It's not about those guys. It's about Jamal Murray and it's about Aaron Gordon. Because when Jokic goes to the bench, those guys are the leaders of the second unit and they haven't been good enough to lift the second unit to anywhere close to even. I'm super encouraged by what I see from Aaron Gordon in preseason. We've seen him have hot shooting starts to begin a year before. I think he shot like 40% for a month with the Magic once upon a time. But if he's able to take a step forward, if Jamal Murray comes in focused, healthy, ready to be an All Star in the first half of the season rather than just the second half of the season, that's what really makes their bench better. It's not going to be, can we get Valentunas 4 post ups a game?

[Jay Skeets]

No, no, no. For sure.

[Tas Melas]

No. I think Cam Johnson's a bit of an X factor when it comes to the bench, too. That guy can be hand in hand with Jamal Murray as your top guys on your Bench when Jokic is sitting. And they can be freaking awesome. So they should. People pump the bricks. I think Jokic is excited that this thing did pump the brakes, that we slow it down a little bit. I don't gotta shoot 500 times again. He can literally sit down. He doesn't have to play the most minutes he's ever played like he did last year. I think there's enough off that bench excited to watch it.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, so we have him as probably ahead of the Cleveland Cavaliers when it comes to the contenders.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay, enough of the Western Conference. Back to the East. Finally. The Detroit Pistons are the next team up for ranking 44 and 38 last season. Finished sixth in the Eastern Conference. They brought in Duncan Robinson and Caris Levert. They lost Malik Beasley, Tim Hardaway Jr. And Dennis Schroeder. What do we like for the Detroit Pistons?

[Jay Skeets]

So there's probably a debate between tier 3 and 4 playoff locker playing hopeful.

[Tas Melas]

It's hard to take them out of the locks for me.

[Jay Skeets]

Right, right. They were. They got there last year a good fight against the Knicks in the first round.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. And the replacements that Trey said it will be a factor. Dennis Schroeder was so key at handling the ball. Now it's Caris Lavert taking over that along with more Jaden Ivy, which is a positive Cade. I think just the rub off of Cade and how he's going to lead that locker room along with JB Bickerstaff leading that locker room. I think that's important. I think this team is. You just can't take it away. You just can't take it away.

[Jay Skeets]

You don't see why they're going to be worse is what you're getting at. Because of all these young guys. A little more experience, a little more growth. The guys they brought in can do a good enough job to make up for the guys that went out.

[Tas Melas]

That's what I'm getting at for sure. Yeah. The young guys are a huge question. I think Asara Thompson along with Jay N. Ivey can take that next step.

[Trey Kirby]

Which guy are you most confident in, Youngster? Probably a SAR more than Ivy.

[Tas Melas]

I love Ivy, but yeah, I think Assard, he just freaking played last year. Unlike Ivy who got injured. So. Yes, yes.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I like him as a tier three team as well. I just think they've got enough talent and they've got Cade at the top. He took a massive step forward last year and it's reasonable to expect him to be at least as good as he was last year. And I Think Ivy can at least approximate what Dennis Schroeder was giving them. I think the. The Beasley thing is probably more of a question mark. He was bombing away from three last year. Had an awesome season. Duncan Robinson just doesn't take as many as he did. Nor does he take his crazy ones.

[Tas Melas]

Right.

[Trey Kirby]

Like off the dribble. Duncan Robinson likes to play out of a dribble handoff game. And it's going to be different to see him doing that alongside the bigs from the Pistons compared to Bam out of bio. Say what you want about Bam. Him and Robinson had great chemistry. Like that was a great way for Duncan to get his looks. I think Duran can be that kind of player as well. He seems to be a decent ball mover, but it'll take a little bit of time for them to develop the chemistry together that Duncan and Bam had in Miami.

[Jay Skeets]

Playoff lock we're all agreeing on.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

For the Detroit Pistons.

[Trey Kirby]

How about ahead of behind the. The. The Hawks, the local.

[Jay Skeets]

The local boys.

[Trey Kirby]

The Hawks. I put them behind, but yeah, sure. I mean, they're probably. They're probably like a slash. They're the same. Yeah, they're the same. Whoever stays healthier will be better. The Golden State warriors were back out West. They were 48 and 34 last season. Finished seventh in the Western Conference. Their main thing this summer was signing Al Horford and some other deep vets. D. Anthony Melton, Seth Curry. They finally came to an agreement with Jonathan Kaminga, but I wouldn't factor him into your projections for the playoffs because it's likely he won't be there come playoff time. Also, full season of Jimmy Butler, I think, is a huge thing for the Warriors. I saw Kevin Pelton's projections, had them as the best team in the Western Conference. Literally the best team in the Western Conference. I had the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Jay Skeets]

That was. That was Pelton's projection or some sort of simulation they ran. Was that that one I saw going around? I saw that it was. The warriors were the number one. I think it was a simulation. But anyway, yeah, the question is, like, what we saw after the Jimmy Butler trade. Is that sustainable for a full season with this sort of older bunch and then all of the pieces? I mean, if the answer is yes, then myself, maybe you guys as well. A lot of people are probably underestimating the dubs. I guess the computers are not. But The warriors were a.500 team with a negative point differential when they entered the trade deadline. And then they got Jimmy and had the NBA's fourth best record, third best net rating and the number one defense. So again, does that extrapolate over a full season? If they're somehow have decent health from their. Their main sort of four older guys. I don't know where to put that. I. I don't have them as a title contender. I. Who are they in that second tier TAs or is that still too much with the squad in a loaded west.

[Tas Melas]

Definitely locking them in. Are they a final four flirt? Yeah, I think you can put them there. I think you can. I mean, I'm fine putting them in the lock position. I mean this team was first last year. After the first month of the season, they're 12 and three. They're better than OKC. Then they got injured and then yeah, they had to recoup to get Jimmy Butler and be this new team. But I think they're going to start off with a serious locked in mentality to this year.

[Jay Skeets]

They're ready because Jimmy Butler came to media day with no crazy haircut. Taking it very seriously.

[Tas Melas]

That's right. I mean that's what he did for.

[Trey Kirby]

Miami last year though as well, and it was a disaster.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, yeah. Go back to the silly haircut again. They started 12 and three last year. I think that's who they are. They're coming into this, this season ready to go with. Yeah. Jimmy and Horford is freaking important. I know.

[Trey Kirby]

Perfect.

[Tas Melas]

We'll see what happens in January, February, March, when the oldies have to take a little step back. Like I do think they're going to be awesome to start the season. But then the oldies once. Yeah. And they're in, the game's played. Jimmy's not playing more than 65. Horford probably about the same. But they're going to play lots in October, November, December and they're going to slow down and then here come the substitutes. Really? I think we're going to just, you know, see the, the. The a lot of your Moses Moody's, your Quentin posts, even that Typ thing. So we'll see if they can hold it up. But where do we see them landing at the end of the season?

[Jay Skeets]

So you're sounds like you're like maxing out almost on a playoff lock.

[Tas Melas]

Well, yeah. I mean a final for the flirting is fine.

[Trey Kirby]

I like them as a Tier 2 team. I checked the thing. It was the simulations that had him as the best team in the Western Conference. Pelton's projections had him at number two.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. By like three wins only behind the Thunder. I think the Thunder were at 59 wins. Warriors were at 56 wins. I think that's a high number for Golden State just because I think they are not going to prioritize the regular season. They will prioritize seeding towards the end of the year. Gaming their matchups. The key for them is having everybody healthy. This is a better playoff team than they are a regular season team because if their top six are ready to go come playoff time, they're going to be a tough out for anybody and it'll just be a matter of who they actually have to face in the playoffs. So I'm happy to have them as our first Tier two team.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. That's fine with me.

[Tas Melas]

Fine by me.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. I mean, you said if their top six is healthy, I would. They'll have a chance in a playoff series. Honestly, at this point, if Steph Curry is healthy, you have a chance in a playoff series. Like they. They took game one against the Minnesota Timberwolves. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Jimmy went nuts after Steph went down.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Okay. Tier two, Good.

[Trey Kirby]

Here's a team that's probably been downgraded due to the circumstances of the preseason. The Houston rockets finished. Finished 52 and 30 last year, second in the Western Conference. They did lose to the warriors in the first round of the playoffs. They added a guy by the name of Kevin Durant to the team. Also Dorian Finney Smith and Clint Capella. See you later, Dylan Brooks. See you later, Jalen Green and unfortunately, see you next season. Fred Van Vliet is what it's sounding like after the injury during a workout.

[Jay Skeets]

During the preseason here, but obviously still so young. A lot of their guys still good. They could get better in Shengoon and Eason and Jabari Smith Jr. And who knows with Reed Shepherd, Amin Thompson, everybody is pumped about. Maybe he flirts with an All Star season. So. Still a damn good team. Is Durant the right guy to lift this Rockets team to sort of a championship contender status, I think, is what we're getting at here. I would put them in tier 2. I don't think they're winning a title.

[Tas Melas]

This year, but they're flirting on being close to the title.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Yeah. If everything goes right.

[Tas Melas]

A lot to go right. If you don't have a lead guard.

[Jay Skeets]

Hey, man, you love Freddy. So do I. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Who's. Who is handling, but who's starting their possessions? I mean, I think that is a fair question.

[Jay Skeets]

Sure. Either Ahmed Thompson or it's Reed shepherd given an opportunity or. Hello. Aaron Holiday. More minutes for him. Yeah, I. It's a fair point.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Amen. Thompson's got a lot on his shoulders, not being a ball handler, really. And now having to initiate an offense, I find locking them in as a playoff team, it's just hard to put into that. Final Four flirts. Obviously they got the talent when you. You say all the names. For sure, they're gonna have to make a move, I do think, to have somebody starting offenses, starting sets and all that. So there's gonna be some question marks here the first couple months.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, they definitely can't make a move, basically until starting December 15th. Some guys become eligible to be traded. January 15th. They can get even better. But I have them as the top of tier 2. I would have had them as title contenders if Fred Van Vliet was healthy. They have two guys who are going to probably be all NBA this season, and Katie and Alpern Shengun.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And we'll see what Thompson is able to bring. They're going to have an awesome defense. Their defense is somehow going to get better now that Fred Van Vliet is out. Just by having a gigantic team. They're going to be playing all guys that are like 6 foot 8. No, it feels like outside of maybe Reed shepherd, and we'll see what he's able to give him. Not a lot of expectations for him, but a lot of pressure, I think, for Reed Shepherd.

[Jay Skeets]

The one concern you brought up on a previous podcast is like, who is shooting three pointers and hitting three pointers on this team? Because they had so many threes made and taken going out this off season with the Fred Van Vliet entry. And then Dylan Brooks and Jellyn Green, like, it was a. What'd you say? It was like, 30 threes attempted or something like that.

[Trey Kirby]

That's a lot.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

So green was like 11 a game or something like that.

[Jay Skeets]

It's a huge vacuum to fill, and that's not on. Ben Thompson ain't going to be doing that. Even Kevin Durant doesn't take a ton of three pointers, so we'll see. But okay, you got him as a playoff. Sorry. The second tier.

[Trey Kirby]

I like it.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. I'm fine with that. All right. Sorry. Tas voted on that one.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm surprised you're down on them. You're usually a guy that loves a defensive team.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, they should be awesome even if they lose, you know, some sort of their. Their mentality, their. Their charisma on the defensive end with Dylan Brooks, like, he'll be replaced. Dorian Faith Smith is injured to start the season. But Tari Eason is freaking awesome. So yeah, I love my defense. But when we're talking at the end, when we're talking playoff series, that's my, my, my. The worst in part here to win two series without a freaking point guard. Really. No disrespect to Reed. Hopefully you're great. Hopefully Aaron Holiday, somebody takes that role. But it's likely not going to be Aaron Hol.

[Jay Skeets]

I don't know. Maybe there is a trade though.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes.

[Tas Melas]

Yes.

[Trey Kirby]

We're talking about Kobe White for Almond Thompson. Who says no?

[Tas Melas]

Rockets probably.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, of course they do.

[Tas Melas]

Of course they do.

[Trey Kirby]

Kobe White would be a perfect fit for this thing. Just that the Indiana Pacers 50 and 32 last season. They finished fourth in the Eastern Conference, went to game seven of the NBA Finals, but Tyrese Halliburton tore his Achilles. He's out for the season. Miles Turner is gone and Jay Huff is in. Pacers weird team to figure out.

[Tas Melas]

Absolutely.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Playing hopeful. I think so is a fantastic goal. Honestly, with no Halliburton nem hard. I'm excited to see like can he sort of make a bit of a jump as a facilitator and really leading the show there. He looked awesome in the playoffs. It's different beast to sort of do it over 82 games. Yeah, I think that's the spot for them.

[Tas Melas]

That's a lockdown. Lock them in to the play in hopeful spot. Don't lock a playoff lock. Unfortunately for the Pacers.

[Jay Skeets]

Are you putting them above the Celtics or Bulls?

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, definitely above the Bulls.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I think that, I mean there's still a lot of talent here. They lost two starters. That stinks. But Matherin can step up a little bit. I think Nemhard will have a good season. Siakam is an incredible player and a guy that gives effort every single game. I think he's a pretty decent floor raiser and was huge for the ceiling of the Pacers as well. So yeah, I think they are probably equivalent with the Celtics. So it's like these are similar teams in similar situations with their star going down with an Achilles tear. They're probably separated by a game or two in the Eastern Conference and you know, ahead of the Bulls for sure.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. And they're similar in that they can be a team that friggin works defensively and so they'll be. They'll be there at Pascal Siakam, the the literally the most underrated and least talked about player in the history of the NBA. Even if we the history of the NBA. I mean, it just feels like every day, you know, every. Every single. Every single show out there will just skip over.

[Trey Kirby]

We were just.

[Tas Melas]

We're all.

[Jay Skeets]

It was nice to see him get a little love with their miraculous sort of Cinderella run there through the postseason. That was nice to see. As obviously a long time Siakam fan and well deserved.

[Tas Melas]

But when it comes to the regular season, no one ain't talking about Pascal Siak.

[Trey Kirby]

No, I. I think we were very few amongst the national media had. Who had Siakam as an All Star last year. And he had a better first half of the season than Halliburton did.

[Tas Melas]

Right.

[Trey Kirby]

But we were right. And then he had that cool dunk in game six. People will already forget that dunk.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, Taz already did.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

I'm just kidding.

[Tas Melas]

I'm sure people did.

[Trey Kirby]

The LA Clippers, we're back out west. 50 and 32 last season. They finished fifth. They brought in Bradley Beal, John Collins and Brook Lopez. Might be the deepest team in the league, which is good because they got a lot of old guys.

[Jay Skeets]

They have a lot of old. They're the oldest team ever. Yeah, I think that has been established. I think Tom Habastro crunched the numbers on it by average age. So it's old. And that's my question is like, how can Tyloo or how will he manage the minutes of this very veteran squad? Their second unit, like you said, Trey, like, it could be CP3. I mean, Chris Dunn, Bogdanovich, Derrick Jones Jr. And Brook Lopez like that. That's a pretty good lineup for a second unit. So it should give them a very high regular season floor. But I don't know. Then we get into the postseason and how they match up. You got a healthy Kawhi coming in here. That's something, too. What did he play, like, 37 games last year and they still won 50 games because of Harden and Zubots and Norm Powell when he was on the team. So I don't know. It's a tough one for me to figure out.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, this team. This team has aspiration, no doubt. But I'm not. I mean, the average age for the guys that they play is 33 years old. The average age of their main 11 guys. There's a lot of them. There's 11 of them. It's 33 years old. Do they have the most All Star Games ever on their roster? It sure feels that way. I know there's guys, there's. There's players who've made more All Star Games. When you get into LeBron's and all those. But because they've got a Chris Paul and a Harden and a Kawhi, now we're dropping down. But there's so many. So I don't know, I didn't do the math on that one, but it feels like I. It's one of those teams that can. Yeah, there's. There's such a range as to what this team can achieve, so I can't, I can't lock them in it myself, but they're top.

[Trey Kirby]

Or as a top two tier team.

[Tas Melas]

I can't even play off. Lock em.

[Trey Kirby]

Whoa, whoa.

[Tas Melas]

Really?

[Jay Skeets]

I thought I was the Clipper hater on this show.

[Tas Melas]

I just can't lock them. Lock them even though they're that freaking good. I mean, what happened to them last year it was. I know. They had a winning champion 50 games. I know, but they had a guy in Kauai who played a bunch, 37 games.

[Jay Skeets]

He didn't play.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, well, he played January, April. That's a lot.

[Jay Skeets]

But he's coming in healthy. I mean, that's a big case for them being good and better, maybe, but.

[Tas Melas]

They'Re a frickin year older.

[Trey Kirby]

So you would have every man Mavericks.

[Tas Melas]

I would. I know, I know.

[Jay Skeets]

I wouldn't.

[Trey Kirby]

Interesting enough.

[Jay Skeets]

Now, will the NBA's investigation into reporting about the possibility that the Clippers circumvented the league salary cap, will that have any impact on this franchise? Any impact on Kawhi himself? I mean, it is funny. Like, everyone's like, nah, probably not.

[Trey Kirby]

They asked him about it, he's like, yeah, they owe me money. He doesn't care. The guy cares about nothing.

[Jay Skeets]

I know, I know. So it's weird, strange and like that investigation's just going to be dragged out forever. It's. We ain't going to learn anything until after the All Star break. Probably end of the season, if we're being honest.

[Tas Melas]

Feels like, oh yeah, they've hinted at it. That they've. Yeah, they said it. They're like, don't, don't.

[Jay Skeets]

We're not rushing.

[Trey Kirby]

We're not saying anything until after the All Star Game.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, for sure.

[Tas Melas]

Well, that may mean that they're guilty because they need to have the All Star Game in the Intuit Dome. They signed the deal, they've done the photo ops, it's happening. I think it's legitimate and I would say at least that's a positive. At least they are going to punish the Clippers for doing what they're doing. If this is. We're talking we're talking in circles. This is like Mark Cuban going on Pablo Torre for the second time. That was just all in circles for Cuban.

[Jay Skeets]

I couldn't even tap into that one.

[Tas Melas]

I had to.

[Jay Skeets]

I was like, had to. I'm done. I'll wait now at this point just to see what the NBA says. I mean, that's no knock on Pablo. I mean, this has been incredible. And he broke this story, but it's like Cuban back on it, like he said. I was like, I know where this is going. Around and around and around.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm surprised to see him taken up for other billionaires. I wouldn't have expected that at all.

[Jay Skeets]

I did like when he was pressed a little bit on the, hey, did you do any shady shit with Dirk? And then Pablo, like, you know, took his side because he's like, no. And then they sort of had the receipts that he probably didn't. It wasn't that much money.

[Trey Kirby]

He put into like $100,000 a year for 10 years.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Million bucks. That ain't nothing.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, nothing.

[Trey Kirby]

So one tree.

[Jay Skeets]

I have the Clippers above the Mavericks. So I have to go playoff.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I agree.

[Trey Kirby]

I would have top of tier three, but they're creaky. Yeah, they're creaky. And look, I want to put them in Tier 2, but it's the Clippers. I can't totally do it.

[Jay Skeets]

There's like concern of like, can Harden do what he did last year? That was a really awesome year from him at this point of his career, like age wise. And Zubots was amazing. Can he replicate that as well? Health and all that. And then, and then of course, even the older guys like these Plug and play, Beals and CP3s and all these guys. Kawhi himself, of course that's out there for half the game. So.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, maybe I'm just angry about this whole aspiration thing because Zubots ain't going anywhere. He's a freaking all NBA player, potentially. He's that freaking good. Harden is such a resilient dude for who he is and where he's been in his career. He's gonna play. And he wasn't all that as awesome. He always plays. He wasn't all that awesome to start the first half last year he played though, so that was important. Yeah, maybe I'm just. Yeah, I'm a little.

[Jay Skeets]

You love trees.

[Tas Melas]

Upset.

[Jay Skeets]

You love trees probably more than most.

[Tas Melas]

I'd say more than most.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, you love composting more than anyone I know. So that's like a natural, you know. What's the word I'm looking for?

[Trey Kirby]

They go hand in hand. Yeah, I mean it's a.

[Jay Skeets]

They go soil and root, root and soil. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

I wish I loved them more than most. I'd be rich. I. I'd be. What's the name of the guy who's going to jail in this aspiration? Sandberg or something like that.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Andy Sandberg.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not Ryan Sandberg. Rip to Ryan Sandberg big time.

[Jay Skeets]

But basically saying tree karma is going to get them Nature Karma.

[Trey Kirby]

Nature Karma. Disrespecting the earth.

[Jay Skeets]

Nature Karma. Sounds like a fake scam company. I love to.

[Trey Kirby]

That does sound like a carbon bank company. Nature Karma. If you feel bad about polluting, buy our trees at Nature Karma.

[Jay Skeets]

Karma.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, I like it. Yeah. I wonder how good they're going to be. Not, not to get back to the basketball, but defensively, are they going to be good?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

As last year.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, they were.

[Tas Melas]

I know the zoo was there. But now starting, likely starting. Chris Duns going to the bench.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Beal starting, they've said.

[Tas Melas]

I think that's, that's, that's a step back.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes.

[Tas Melas]

It was their dog anyways. They should outscore everybody. They've got more all star appearances than the freaking other teams in the NBA.

[Trey Kirby]

I wonder if that's true.

[Jay Skeets]

No, I don't think it is.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm like LeBron, literally.

[Jay Skeets]

And LeBron.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, yeah. Well, 21. Right. He didn't reach the first one. Anyways, it doesn't matter.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

So they're at 26, 27, maybe the Lakers, without even considering anyone else on their team. Oh, Marcus Smart. No, he never made it.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay.

[Jay Skeets]

Anyway, what do we do? Let's keep going. Let's go to the Lakers.

[Tas Melas]

Okay. To the Lakers.

[Trey Kirby]

50 and 32, third in the Western Conference last season after the Luka Doncic trade. They got deandre Ayton in town. Jake Laravia is here. Marcus Smart as well. Biggest loss I think was Dorian Finney Smith. And as we've mentioned before, they got a guy named Augustus Hoop playing on their team.

[Jay Skeets]

That's what it's.

[Trey Kirby]

Somebody suggested that was pretty good.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Is the defense good enough to compete night in, night out in the loaded Western Conference? That's my only question mark. Like, you know, Luke and LeBron are not dominant two way players. Especially LeBron at this point of his career, his age. Their third best player. Austin Reeves is not a stopper by any means. DeAndre Eaton, their center, not a defensive juggernaut. They brought in Marcus Smart but He's getting up there in age and we haven't seen it in a while. So has he lost a step, what he can do? That's my. That's my question. They ranked 17th on defense last season and they lost their best perimeter wing defender in dfs. So I just wonder if they're gonna be able to stop teams.

[Trey Kirby]

Point of attack is going to be a disaster for the Lakers. They might have to start Marcus Smart and hope he can throw it back because I don't know who else on this team can really guard on the perimeter and do anything behind the arc. Because that's the question for them. Finding that fifth starter, I think. Because like Jared Vanderbilt, probably their best point of attack guy. Yeah, but you don't count on him making a jump shot.

[Tas Melas]

No, but that's okay because you're playing with Luca and he's going to take every jump shot. He's going to take a lot of them. I'm buying into Jared Vanderbilt being healthy and being out there on the point of attack. I'm buying into Marcus Smart and being a little bit of just a replicate of what they were last year. Somehow JJ Redick got this out of their team. I know they are losing Dorian, Finney Smith as you said there, but I think they've got enough parts to go in there. Jake, Larry will see what he can do.

[Jay Skeets]

And.

[Tas Melas]

And I think Luka Doncic is looking good. Played in his first preseason game. He's happy.

[Trey Kirby]

There we go.

[Tas Melas]

He's smiling, he's looking. The body looks good. I think they got it. I think you lock him in, J.J. right?

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, yeah. I thought you were going to say there must be a Final four flirt. You have Luca winning mvp. That's your prediction. So you got to be a really good team probably to get MVP consideration in this league.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. But it could be a 51, 52 win team anyway. This west is freaking tough. They're definitely their lock for me, which I think is a good season for them. Really?

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, where did you say I'm playoff lock. I'll go play lock. Okay. Yeah, I think they're in that tier. I mean, we might at the end have too many just Western Conference teams at some point. You're right.

[Trey Kirby]

It's going to be a mess. It's going to be a big old glob in the middle for sure.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

In the standings. Yes.

[Jay Skeets]

Hollinger brought up a fun point about the Lakers. Could they make an in season deal because they have expiring deals for Maxi, Kleba, Rui Hachimura, your guy, Gabe Vincent. I don't know if he's still your guy. I think he might be.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. He's my friend.

[Jay Skeets]

And would you be able to return up to $40 million? They would be able to return up into $40 million in salary. Staying under the first apron. They have a tradable 20, 31 first round pick as a little bit of bait, too. Just throwing it out there. Hollinger was like, maybe they do something here in season. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Hollinger is, I think, tapped into what Rob Pelinka has done very well. They've been able to keep their assets, and yes, I think they are always ready to make the trade. Yeah. The question is the whole LeBron thing.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, well, do you think LeBron is, like, pouting right now? No.

[Tas Melas]

Why say that?

[Jay Skeets]

Sciatica.

[Trey Kirby]

It's fake.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, my sciatica. Oh, my sciatica. Oh, my sciatica. It's in my heart now. People are saying, he's like, I don't know.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, it's Kendrick Perkins who said this. I saw it going around too. I forget who it was.

[Tas Melas]

This guy's pretending as sciatica because. Because they're focused on Luca being the guy.

[Trey Kirby]

His team anymore.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. The extension and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

No.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Tas Melas]

I don't think so. I can't buy into that. I think their team is good enough.

[Jay Skeets]

Questions?

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

The Memphis Grizzlies finished 48 and 34 last season, eighth in the Western Conference. They traded Desmond Bane and got Kentavious Caldwell po back. They also added Ty Jerome and drafted Cedric Coward. Unfortunately for this team, their hurt centers are all already hurt. Jaren Jackson, dune, you're back soonest. Zach, Edie, a little bit longer. Brandon Clark is out. They're probably starting Jock Landale to start the season here, so doesn't necessarily have anything to do once we get to the end of the season, but where are we putting the Grizzlies?

[Jay Skeets]

This might look silly, but I have them quite low playing hopeful. I. I don't. I don't have a good read on this team. I know these come into play. Can John Morant be John Moran again? Because, like, if John moran, Jaron Jackson Jr. Are playing, they just win a lot of regular season games. Yes, they do. Period. Because they really good at finding sort of the guys around the. The margins to help them out. But, like, how many games will they play? And again, all these injuries already and just a loaded west. I have them lower, so I have them Getting squeezed, I guess sort of here down to the play and hopeful.

[Tas Melas]

I do too. I wish I could lock them in, but with Jaren Jackson junior's health, I think that's a big question. Combined with John Morant who said he's going to play all 82 games on media day. That was his go. Cool. Anyways. But then he got injured. But he should be back. He's totally fine with his ankle injury. That being said.

[Trey Kirby]

It's a question.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Again, in this Western Conference, I've got at least seven teams over them, so I'm a hopeful for them.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, they're probably top six if they play in the Eastern Conference, but they're in the Western Conference, which means they're likely in the 7 to 10 range. I'm happy with them as a play and hopeful. They took an intentional step back. They said our team is too expensive right now and that's why they traded Desmond Bain for some future pick consideration. And Kentavius Caldwell Pope who they're hoping is like a decent replacement. Right. Like. And that his poor shooting season with the Magic changes. Yeah. Because they need somebody to shoot threes as well. I. I have hope for John Moran. I don't think he's going to be missing a ton of time.

[Tas Melas]

No.

[Trey Kirby]

With this ankle injury and he looked a little bit unleashed when Isolo took over for Taylor Jenkins at the end of the season.

[Jay Skeets]

His numbers were good like later in the season season.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. That totally. They. They gave him the ball way more instead of him playing off the ball. In theory they've got their wings that they find is finally been looking for. You mentioned KCP Cedric Coward looks like a wing that could be that sort of guy that can basically be put on anyone, anytime, anywhere. Along with Jalen Wells out there. There's hope for Gigi Jackson and Vince Williams. There's enough. There's enough of those guys. But this is the west, dude.

[Jay Skeets]

Dude. This is the west, dude.

[Trey Kirby]

Get you a cowboy hat, Bruce Brown. This is the West.

[Jay Skeets]

All right. Well, we're halfway through I believe ranking all these teams so we'll get to the other 15 teams. But first a quick break from our sponsor.

[Tas Melas]

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[Jay Skeets]

Team here live on YouTube. Chiming in every team we're going through debating where they slide into tiers. What are they? Oh, just like every squad, right? Like there were a lot of people agreeing with sort of where we had the Grizzlies despite having a good roster, but man, it's a loaded Western Conference. But I would like to see the likes go up. Too many people joining us live, too few thumbs up on the YouTube vid. So take a second, smash that and let's keep going. Trey, I think we're like an hour and a bit in.

[Trey Kirby]

But look how nice our our bell curve distribution is here.

[Jay Skeets]

This is looking good. It's looking great.

[Trey Kirby]

Thicker in the middle. That's how we like it. The Miami Heat 37 and 45 last season, 10th in the Eastern Conference. They brought in Norman Powell and and Casper Yakachonis. Tyler Hero is injured right now, but kind of the same team as last season. For the Miami Heat outside of norm, I would say.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, sort of norm in there right now for Tyler Hero for sure.

[Tas Melas]

Tough one.

[Jay Skeets]

Tough one. I know I'm a little higher on the Heat than. Than maybe some are out there, but.

[Tas Melas]

Are you locking them in the playoffs?

[Jay Skeets]

That would be tough. It's sort of tough to do. Yeah. I do wonder like Once Hero's back, like, bam. Tyler Herro and Norman Powell. Is that the foundation of a competitive team? Right?

[Trey Kirby]

Competitive.

[Jay Skeets]

Competitive. And we went over, like their brutal record in the clutch last year. It was just garbage. Like, does it just even out a little bit more? You pick up some more wins that way. I think they're going to be around 500 ish. A little bit better. I had them as an over one of my locks, actually, which was I think in the high 30s, 40s.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. They're over unders in the height.

[Jay Skeets]

It was like 37 maybe. Yeah, yeah. So I have them as a 500 team, but they're going to need one of their, like, young guys to sort of pop here, be it Jovic or Haquez or. I like Khalil Ware.

[Trey Kirby]

He's looking good.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. The rook, like you said. So I guess who. They're probably still playing hopeful to me.

[Tas Melas]

Same with me.

[Jay Skeets]

Top of the pops. Yes.

[Tas Melas]

I mean, I want to get excited about them, but as. As you're sort of reluctant to say their top three. Is that a competitive team?

[Jay Skeets]

When I say it out loud, I'm.

[Trey Kirby]

Like, no love for Wiggins.

[Jay Skeets]

He's here.

[Tas Melas]

Looked over. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Their offense should take another step. It really should. When Hero comes back with Norman Powell, they. They need a guy who can score the basketball, and he's been doing that in the preseason. He looks old Norm. Looks like old Norm in a good way. Like last year, the guy was leading the Clippers and scoring for a long time. Last season they were good, but it's just hard to get them excited about them as a unit, especially with Hero out to start the season. So that 37 and a half over under number is pretty accurate for me. So I'm hopeful.

[Jay Skeets]

When you said old Norm, you reminded me of this photo I saw going around. You see this thing about the Cheers cast their age on the show. During the first season in the 80s, Norm was 34 years old, but to.

[Trey Kirby]

Us as kids, it was like the oldest man alive.

[Jay Skeets]

And like Sam was 35 and. Oh, it's pretty funny. I'm looking at it now. Yeah, okay. Anyway, old Norm is still good, but not playoff lock. Like I do think the Hawks and the Magic and probably the Bucks even still, I still ranked them above them. Above the Heat.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I just. Last season's Heat, I just remember they Lew so many fourth quarter leads and every fourth quarter was a slog for them to get through. And it came down to, can Tyler Herro make a crazy shot? So maybe they'll Be a little bit better offensively. You have to assume Bam will have a better offensive season. He was pretty brutal last year. Powell will help.

[Tas Melas]

He will.

[Trey Kirby]

Weird to call him Powell.

[Jay Skeets]

No, he's a.

[Trey Kirby]

He's a norm. He is a straight up norm. But Powell is going to help because the guy drives the ball and they don't have anybody like that. Like, Hero's a good jump shooter. Bam is nice at catching the ball at the elbow and maybe shooting a 15 footer or turning and passing to somebody on the other side of the court. They don't have a guy who just gets to the rim. So definitely that's going to be helpful. Having Norm Powell, maybe. Wiggins gets more invigorated in a full season playing in Miami, but sounds like you're off the island. Skates sad.

[Jay Skeets]

Wiggins island. Yeah, I probably am. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

It's all right.

[Jay Skeets]

I finally got off.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

So you're fine with the playoff or playing?

[Trey Kirby]

Hopefully, yeah. Where do you rank them, though, compared to the Celtics and Pacers? Teams that are incomplete, I would say.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. This season I like where you have them just above them.

[Trey Kirby]

They gotta have better luck.

[Jay Skeets]

They got to. Right, right, right.

[Trey Kirby]

Here's a team that has some bad luck. The Milwaukee Bucks, 48 and 34 last season. Finished fifth in the Eastern Conference. Damian Lillard tore his Achilles and then the Bucks shipped him out. Or I guess they waved and stretched him. Actually, they brought in Miles Turner using the Dame slot. Kind of interesting in the preseason. Kyle Kuzma coming off the bench playing Giannis and shooters. That's their smartest move. Yeah, yeah, that works. That's actually a good idea. But also, Kuzma is maybe their best perimeter player, so we'll see.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, it's smart because I think the second unit will be going through Kakuzma because he wants to shoot when he gets the ball. So that's. That's, I think, a more optimal role for him. And yeah, Giannis has to bank on a lot of guard play that's hasn't been proven strong in the NBA. He's banking on Ryan Rollins. He said he's improved a lot.

[Jay Skeets]

Lot.

[Tas Melas]

He's banking on Kevin Porter Jr. Who really flamed out in the playoffs. Was difficult to watch him as the starting point guard for this team against the Pacers. He's banking on Cole Anthony. Loves Cole Anthony. We're talking about guys who've failed in other situations and Ryan Rollins, just a young player here. So are you betting against Giannis is what it comes down to, because the guards Are questionable, very questionable. I think their D will be really good. I think Giannis will be healthier as the season goes on, having Miles Turner beside him.

[Jay Skeets]

But.

[Tas Melas]

Are they locked? I ain't betting against Giannis. I mean, maybe, maybe I'm guilty of doing that, but I'm fine, I'm fine locking them in. It's a little crazy, I think, even with the Milwaukee Bucks.

[Jay Skeets]

The only person more obsessed with family than Vin Diesel is Giannis. And he's getting all the bros. Oh, yeah. It's pretty hilarious to see, but I'm. Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Come on down.

[Tas Melas]

Come on over.

[Jay Skeets]

I am a playoff lock. I would put them right at the bottom sort of our, of our tier there. I, I, I think I still, I have faith still, obviously, in a Giannis led team just in this east to still be a top six seed.

[Trey Kirby]

You too?

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I'm fine putting them there.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I'm, I'm down on this. You're down? Yeah, I definitely am. They have Giannis. That's awesome. But he doesn't play 70 games anymore. And that, that's the problem for me. And I, I'm. But, but if we're looking here, like, they do have Giannis. I mean, they've had Giannis, though, for the past three seasons. Haven't won a first round playoff series.

[Jay Skeets]

Right.

[Tas Melas]

So injuries, injuries to get to Yanis.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes, exactly.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. So, yeah, to go through Giannis's games, he played 67 last year, 73 the year before, and then in the, in the 60s the four years before that. For every single year, for the four.

[Jay Skeets]

Years before that, we slot them here out of respect for Giannis, who is the best player still in the Eastern Conference. Yes. So, and that's sudden again in this weird east where it's just this imbalance of all the great Western Conference teams to like this banged up Eastern Conference teams. Yeah. Like this will be a very bad season if they're in the play in. And what does that then have on Giannis's future with this squad? Hopefully they don't, Hopefully Bucs fans don't have to see that. And hopefully they have a great regular season and maybe win a playoff series or two.

[Trey Kirby]

They are the defending NBA cup champions.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, there is that.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

That was big time. They celebrated it.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Dan Lillard was very excited.

[Jay Skeets]

They knew.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, maybe they knew.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And one game, though.

[Tas Melas]

Yep.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm looking bet against Giannis.

[Tas Melas]

You can't in one game. Absolutely not. I'm looking forward to an NBA cup of coffee. For a mere coffee. I needed to make a coffee pun. I mean, I know it's a mere coffee. And he was let go by the Los Angeles Clippers because they were so deep, but they're really taking chance on anybody on the wing. Slash guard.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Are any of these guards and wings players like championship caliber pieces around Giannis like they're praying and hoping that they are. They led the league in three point shooting last year, which is a bit of a surprise to me. 38.7%. So strong efficiency. Going to need that again. Like you said, surround Giannis with all these guys and bomb away. And Turner to obviously help out with those threes. And defensively, yeah, he shoots threes.

[Trey Kirby]

That's good.

[Jay Skeets]

I think that is being a little overlooked. He's still a really good player.

[Trey Kirby]

And Kevin Porter Jr. Was pretty decent in the regular season. He actually was a good for them. And then when they needed more from him, the playoffs, that was the problem.

[Tas Melas]

Can't wait to say Torian Prince again because he's gonna play and he's gonna hit shots.

[Trey Kirby]

He's gonna play less.

[Tas Melas]

He's gonna play less. Finally, I think that's good.

[Trey Kirby]

These guys who were playing a lot, Torian Prince and Andre Jackson Jr. Are kind of buried right now, and they were major pieces for this team last year. So it kind of feels like they don't really, really know exactly who they want to play. But I saw Amir Coffee and Jericho Sims have been friends since they were in grade school, so that's cool.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, family and friendship.

[Trey Kirby]

Family and friendship.

[Jay Skeets]

Damn.

[Trey Kirby]

That's my first round playoff appearance. Perhaps. Yeah. We think the Minnesota Timberwolves finished 49 and 33 last year, sixth in the Western Conference. Pretty similar team to last year. Nikhil Alexander Walker is gone. He's here in Atlanta. Didn't really replace him because they're hoping Terence Shannon Jr. And Rob Dillingham can take a step forward. They also drafted two gigantic guys, Joanne Berenger and Rocco Zacharsky, both seven footers. One of them hit their face on the rim this week. I forget who it was. Rocco, maybe. So I think he's been wearing a. A face mask, but I don't think they're gonna play very much. No, no. Hopefully Nas Reed. So where you got the Timberwolves?

[Tas Melas]

Rocco Zakarski.

[Trey Kirby]

Cool name, huh?

[Tas Melas]

Didn't see that coming out of nowhere. Yeah, Yell on Bering. They're both super, super young, so Berenjay is likely to play more minutes if he does as the Rudy Gobert backup. But I've got them high just because yes, Nikhil Alexander Walker, who I think is a little bit overrated right now even though I love him here in Atlanta, but people just elevating every single Hawks move. He wasn't a monstrous player for this Wolves team and I think Dante DiVincenzo can be slotted in there as well as a guy who's didn't really find his way in Minnesota just because he was dealt right before training camp happened. So I think they got a bunch of guys that have learned along with Julius Randle, those guys have learned how to play with Anthony Edwards. So I'm banking on them to be a lock for sure.

[Jay Skeets]

I feel like the Wolves are the most disrespected team from the Vegas odds coming into this season. I thought their over under eye was a little weird at 49 and a half. I see them as when you look at the Western Conference winners, the odds for that okc number 1 plus 125 then denver plus 500 then the rockets plus 1000 same as the Clippers, same as the Lakers. I even said the Wolves yet they've been to two Western Conference finals. They have a similar team still. It hasn't changed all that much. You might have a an Anthony Edwards leap here as he gets older and gets closer to the prime where he explodes even more. So like for them to be. What did I say, 16 seventh for the odds on favorites to win the West. That's I don't know. I feel like that's a bit of a slap to the face in my opinion.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I think it's probably because every other team you mentioned made a move and all they did was lose a guy.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe I'd say just signed guys. They're like, all right Randall, you're back here. Nasrid, you're back. Yeah, possibly, but I am. I mean they're to me easily a final four flirt. And it's just whether or not we're convinced they're a championship contender because they keep going pretty deep.

[Trey Kirby]

They are number five title contender for me. They're the last team that I would have in the very first tier. I believe in Anthony Edwards. I think they will be better. They got a great defense regardless of how they look offensively. I agree with you that like a full season for Divincenzo not getting traded right after he's doing photo shoots with his college teammates probably helps. Julius Randall was thrown off. It's the way their season played out was pretty weird and that they Started slow trying to get Randall and DiVincenzo acclimated to Minnesota. Then Randall goes out with an injury. He comes back. They caught fire and rolled through the playoffs. Playoffs coasting on that momentum. I do think it's pretty hilarious that like we're just now thinking Anthony Edwards started watching Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. I bet he probably checked him out before then. But look, if he comes back with an awesome post game that's big time for the Timberwolves. Because the two things lacking in ants game are the blend of scoring and playmaking which is just going to have to come with more on ball reps. But number two is a in between game. He can get to the rim. He turned into an awesome 3 point shooter last year, but come playoff time teams were playing him to do one of those two things knowing he isn't as confident in between. So if he able, if he's able to kill switches even better this year, if he's able to live a little bit in the mid range like an MJ or a Kobe, that makes them an even deadlier playoff team. So I'm personally a bottom of tier one guy for the Timberwolves.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I'm fine throwing them up there. I know people are sort of reluctant to buy into this team because the guy playing beside Anthony Edwards is old in Mike Conley. So that's what teams defensively were able to do with ant get the ball out of his hands. So can if, if Mike Hunley is older, can somebody fill in in that role? I think that's a fair question. I think DiVincenzo will elevate himself. Will he be a starter at some point like he was for the Knicks in the year prior to bombing away. Now he ain't the ball handler that Conley is, that's for sure. I think the other thing to worry about a little bit that you said the defense can be good. No doubt James McDaniels is good. Is Rudy Gobert finally old? I think that's possible. You know he is important to this team. He's 33. That's old enough to be Johan Baron J's dad. Almost. Not really. But yo, I'm Baron J. Who's supposed to be the replacement of Rudy Gobert. How old is he?

[Trey Kirby]

1902.

[Jay Skeets]

20?

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, 19 at the most. What does the Internet say? Why can't I see his name when I'm looking at this freaking Ross?

[Trey Kirby]

He does look like he's gonna be sweet though. Baron J. But not this year.

[Jay Skeets]

He's pretty young.

[Tas Melas]

18343 days. So Rudy is old enough to be his very older brother, I suppose. But anyway, there's some questions there.

[Jay Skeets]

Second marriage accidental, Right.

[Tas Melas]

Um, there's a big difference there between Rudy and Baron J. Yeah. So the second marriage accidental at 16 years apart. Yeah, I guess. Anyway, as you said with the Timberwolves, I think that's probably where they were ranked last year. Right. The same sort of spot, you know, like fifth, six in the Western Conference.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

I imagine it's like every year with this team. But you can't pay against Ant. That's part of it. That's part of it. This team should be.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Nobody's thinking Ants getting worse or probably even plateauing. And I think when we just get to the playoff series with Ant, it's like he needs to be the best player on the floor in these series. But they've run into some MVP like guys and really good squads in the SGA's and the Yokiches of the world and stuff like that. But he's going to continue to get better here. He needs to get a little bit more efficient scoring. Trey, you brought up the playmaking, the balance of that. Now he's out in the mid range game just like the. You know, he already is a leader. I mean he's sort of a leader from day one. He just sort of holds himself that way but on the floor and all that. So I'm fine with putting him as a title contender. Right. The end.

[Trey Kirby]

Cool. New Orleans Pelicans, 21 and 61 last season. Finished 14th in the Western Conference. They traded C.J. mcCollum for Jordan Pool. They brought in Kavon Looney and then they drafted Jeremiah Fears and Derek Queen. Derek Queen I think is a 150 to 1 for rookie of the year. Whoa, talk about a dark horse. But Hessian Zion goes out with an injury and Derrick Queen 20 and how long.

[Jay Skeets]

How are you? How are you? He's injured, right?

[Tas Melas]

Yes.

[Trey Kirby]

Sweet.

[Tas Melas]

Just start this game well. There we go.

[Jay Skeets]

That's why he's 150 to 1.

[Trey Kirby]

Rookie of the Year isn't 1 in the first month. Unless you're Michael Carter Williams. Good luck figuring out this. Yeah, they got a lot of good guys on their team. That would be awesome. On other teams they got Zion Williamson. Sometimes he's a top five player in the league.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, I said it when we were doing our predictions. If Zion, Trey Murphy and Herb Jones can just play 60 plus games together, they're all out there. I like their chances to hit their over which Was embarrassingly low. It was like 31 and a half or something like that.

[Tas Melas]

I think you're right.

[Jay Skeets]

It was in the low 30s. They play. They're hitting that over. I'm confident about that. But like, good luck trying to figure out if they're actually healthy. So I have them as a play in.

[Tas Melas]

Hopeful. Same.

[Jay Skeets]

The most you can wish for right now.

[Tas Melas]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. We'll call Joe Dumars all the time and ask him what's going on with your team. He'll pick up his cell phone. He'll pick it up.

[Jay Skeets]

Then he'll pick up the other stuff. Exactly.

[Tas Melas]

Every one of us will call him. How many phones does he have? Just the two or is that just the thing?

[Jay Skeets]

I think he has a pager still.

[Tas Melas]

David Pager there. Oh, no, no. I'm sorry. Okay.

[Jay Skeets]

I just feel like Joe Dumars at one point had a pager.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Maybe he still has it.

[Tas Melas]

Nobody knows.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, nobody.

[Tas Melas]

Joe does not know.

[Trey Kirby]

No.

[Tas Melas]

He's hopeful that Zion is going to be awesome. He's pushing him to be a leader and we'll see if he can do that.

[Trey Kirby]

No expectations for the Pelicans right now. N O P. No expectations. So they can go in the play in hopefuls for now. And look, it would be cool to be wowed by this team.

[Tas Melas]

Absolutely.

[Trey Kirby]

I think it'd be fun to see Zion play 60 plus games. He did a 360 in preseason.

[Jay Skeets]

Says go to dunk.

[Trey Kirby]

It says go to dunk, but we never see it anymore. He did it and he's got goatee right now.

[Jay Skeets]

It would be. You're right. It'd be just nice as basketball sickos to have a healthy Zion and at least a spunky Pelicans team competing night in, night out. Just healthy guys out there. They have decent team like, you know, Looney starting. Even as a vet. I don't like. I don't mind that if Missy's coming off the bench. So you're fine with play and hopeful?

[Trey Kirby]

I like it.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Yep. The New York Knicks finished 51 and 31 last season, third in the Eastern Conference. Made the conference finals for the first time in 25 years and fired their head coach, Coach Tom Thibodeau. They brought in Mike Brown and they beefed up their bench as well. Gershon Yabu, Jordan Clarkson, Malcolm Brogdon is around. They definitely improved. So where we were putting the New York Knickerbockers to the top.

[Ryan Seacrest]

To the top.

[Jay Skeets]

Title contender.

[Trey Kirby]

I think so, too.

[Tas Melas]

Got to, I believe, like they're at.

[Jay Skeets]

The point it's a disappointing season if they're not in the conference finals. Definitely, definitely disappointing season. And yeah, they have. Have obviously their ambition to get to the finals. So, yeah, they're. They're a title contender. They're still really good.

[Trey Kirby]

Ahead or behind the Cleveland Cavaliers?

[Jay Skeets]

Ahead. I'm with you.

[Tas Melas]

I'm fine. Yeah. I would think when you went through the odds first there, Skeets, I'd think that they would be higher, better odds than the Cleveland Cavaliers. Not just because everybody's sort of excited that the New York Knicks, you know, got to a conference final and made all these moves. But they're super good.

[Jay Skeets]

Plus 420. The Knicks are to win the East. That's not bad. The Cavaliers are plus 200. And then it, you know, then there's the. Then it goes Magic and Hawks and Celtics and pistons. So plus 420. Nice for the Knicks. Yeah, I believe.

[Trey Kirby]

Stretch out the garden, baby.

[Jay Skeets]

We're taking it all the way.

[Trey Kirby]

Plus 420. Those guys up to. Let's catch up with the Bing bong.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, for sure. Well, who's going to be the team's fifth most important player? Is a question I wrote down. I know.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay. It's like we're talking Brunson towns, OG bridges.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Top four.

[Jay Skeets]

So is it heart? Is it McBride? Is it Mitchell Robinson who at times has appeared to be that. Like he's very important. He needs to be healthy and he's play. Is it one of these other guys coming off the bench? We'll see. It's probably hard, but.

[Trey Kirby]

But I wouldn't be surprised when Mitchell Robinson was in. I know double bigs is back.

[Tas Melas]

It's back, baby. I think Mike Brown is going to be buying into that. But they have so much depth. So that's why I have more faith in that 51, 31 performance last year. I think people forget that they just won 51 games. Like, it seems like there was a lot of people.

[Jay Skeets]

I remember hitting the over going into last season and I only remember because I swerved. I was like, I'm going to take the under on the Knicks. It wasn't much more. It was like 54 and a half. They were pegged after the big cat trade and all that. Right. So, you know, there was expectations. People were on them. It's odd they went under.

[Tas Melas]

They underperformed in the regular season and somehow got to the conference finals. I think Mike Brown will change this team in the way they play offense, how deep they go. Yeah. Mitchie Mitch Is is important though. Will he be able to play Mitchell Robinson? Will I have to say who he is? Because maybe people don't know who Mitchie Mitch is. Just somehow nicknamed him that you met, but the Gershy Gersh. I think Gershy Gersh is going to play a lot. Abicelli is going to play a lot. Hopefully Mitchell, not for the reason, because Mitchell Robinson gets hurt, but because he is going to spread the floor for Carlton Towns, Carl Anthony Townsend. Shooters, baby. All of them. That's going to be great. That's going to be fun for Mike Brown's going to do that and those guys are all going to touch the ball and I think they'll have a defensive that they didn't have last year that just the attitude. They didn't have a great defensive team last year, period. It came alive in the playoffs. But they should be better than a mediocre offensive team or a defensive team, I should say.

[Trey Kirby]

I saw a great tweet from Tommy Beer yesterday who said that The Knicks are 32nd in pace during the preseason behind a team from China and a team from Australia. I was told Mike Brown was an offensive genius who's going to get this team moving.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

I saw one preseason clip of them in practice whipping the ball around. People saying, I haven't seen ball movement like this from the Knicks in forever. And they go out and they're slower than. Than the South Melbourne Phoenix.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow. Well, they're playing the long game here.

[Trey Kirby]

They're playing the long game. You want to burn out early.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, exactly. Right. Right.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

All right. So we got them contending here. Yep.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I know. Tommy Beer is a slow poor.

[Trey Kirby]

There's.

[Tas Melas]

There's just a beer reference in there somewhere. It's a freaking preseason. Who cares?

[Trey Kirby]

You know, he's a really good jumper, Tommy Beer. He's got hops.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, that's.

[Tas Melas]

Yes. That's better.

[Jay Skeets]

That's better.

[Tas Melas]

That's good.

[Trey Kirby]

Oklahoma City Funder.

[Tas Melas]

Do some of you play basketball? Basketball.

[Jay Skeets]

I don't know. I don't really know who he is.

[Trey Kirby]

A good Nick's Twitter follow and he just had the thing going around with the oldest basketball you've ever seen. He's like, I finally got to retire this.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, that was him. Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And it looked like a sweet gumball.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Or like a Covid thing. Like a Covid molecule was so fuzzy and hairy. He put an orange at all.

[Jay Skeets]

He retired it and put it up on his, like, mantelpiece. Yeah. It respect.

[Trey Kirby]

That was a well used ball.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Oklahoma City Thunder finished 68 and 14 last season. They won the NBA championship, finished first in the Western Conference, and they're bringing everybody back.

[Jay Skeets]

Number one with Bullet. Yeah, I mean, let's not waste any time on this. The Thunder slot them ahead of the Nuggets. There you go. They're title contenders. I just wonder, can they repeat with that suffocating defense? That, that's my only question. And not because of the personnel, just because of the mentality of it all and how you gotta approach it to be that. But they probably will.

[Trey Kirby]

What was our over? Under 61 and a half, I think. I know I went under.

[Jay Skeets]

I went under as well.

[Trey Kirby]

Jalen Williams isn't ready. He's not ready to play right now. So maybe that's good for people who chose the under. He's still recovering from the wrist surgery that he had after a 40 point NBA Finals game. Yeah, he had an injury in the NBA Finals that required surgery in the off season. He still scored 40.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, that's. That is amazing. And they won 68 games and didn't have Holmgren for half of it, Hartenstein for half of it. So like we might be, look, we might look silly. They might still win 66 games. He could miss a month. Like, they just, they're so deep too. And they obviously have an identity. They're well coached and they got Shay, who's always going to score 32 points or 31 points.

[Tas Melas]

So, yeah, they're pretty good.

[Jay Skeets]

They're good. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay, good.

[Jay Skeets]

Let's keep going.

[Trey Kirby]

Good luck to Nikola.

[Jay Skeets]

Topic's nuts.

[Trey Kirby]

Nuts to his nuts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Tas Melas]

Limu Emu. And Doug.

[Jay Skeets]

Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Kraken Representative]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Jay Skeets]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Trey Kirby]

Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty, Liberty.

[Jay Skeets]

Liberty.

[Trey Kirby]

Liberty Savings.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Trey Kirby]

The Orlando Magic went 41 and 41 last season. Seventh in the Eastern Conference. That's with Paulo Bonchero playing 46 games. Franz Vagner limited to 60 games due to oblique injuries. They brought in Desmond Bane and Tyus Jones. They shipped out Contavious Caldwell Pope and they drafted Jace Richardson. Where do we like the Magic?

[Tas Melas]

I think it was easily a lock. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

That's.

[Tas Melas]

Are they a final four flirt? Is the question. Can they do that for me?

[Trey Kirby]

Yes. We need some more teams here.

[Tas Melas]

Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

Tier 2.

[Jay Skeets]

Come on.

[Trey Kirby]

In the Eastern Conference, they're one of the second level teams.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I guess that's true. That's true.

[Tas Melas]

They can flirt with the final four flirt ranking. That's 100. True. They have way more depth this year. The guard play.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Hopefully they got to be healthy for sure.

[Trey Kirby]

Well, I'm more so like. Prove you're good. Anthony Black. I've got hope for this guy. He hasn't really established himself right now and I wonder like if he's able to hold on to the backup point guard position. Like he wasn't able to take the job from Cole. Anthony. That's kind of weird to me.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. I'm not. I don't even. I don't even know if Anthony Black's going to play. I don't think that's.

[Trey Kirby]

Then who's the depth?

[Tas Melas]

Tyus Jones is way better than what they had last year.

[Trey Kirby]

So true.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I think he'll just fine. Yeah. That's all they need. I mean, last year Corey Joseph, as good as a Canadian boy. He was. He started for this team for a little stretch. Had to. They needed somebody. So if Sugg stays healthy then.

[Trey Kirby]

Already hurt. Yeah, he's recovering. Recovering injury.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Do they have the depth? Do they stay healthy? What is on Desmond Baines plate as a. As a ball maker. I think he can do that. I think they'll allow him to make plays. So there'll be less on Bank Arrow shoulders, less on Wagner shoulders. I guess I'm just thinking if these other guys are playing more Then these other guys will be staying healthy more and Suggs won't be going as nuts. I have Vogner want to try and start every play. Banker want to start every play. But obliques are obliques, I guess. I don't know. Is this how it goes into this season?

[Jay Skeets]

Is this year the Magic breakout of the bottom, top 10 in offense? They have to be at least average, if not better. Have to be. Somebody has to hit a shot.

[Trey Kirby]

Somebody has to be.

[Jay Skeets]

They got kcp and we were like going nuts for that. Oh my God. Great three point shooter. He couldn't hit a three. And if Desmond Bain can't hit threes, or Tyus Jones even, who's a pretty good three point shooter, doesn't take a high volume like Bain, even this rookie and Jace Richardson, if they can't hit threes, they need to tear that building down and just make a new one because the sight lines must suck or something. Like it's. Something's wrong. Like they can't shoot. But I have faith in them. I. Yeah, that's fine. Putting them in the second tier. It's bottom. Second tier, top of the. Obviously playoff locks to me, but that's fine where we have them because you made a good point. It's like this is the east here and most people have the Magic slotted in. If Paolo and Franz continue to grow and stay healthy enough, they're going to be that second tier in the East.

[Tas Melas]

So. Sure, yeah. They were the worst three point shooting team in a decade or so.

[Jay Skeets]

Unbelievable.

[Tas Melas]

Since 2013. 14. But Tyus Jones, 41% shooting five threes a game last year. Was it five?

[Trey Kirby]

Okay, back to the bench. That's good.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, he's not a good starter, but.

[Trey Kirby]

He'S a good bench player.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

You know who needs to make threes for this team? Paolo Bonchero and Franz Vogler.

[Jay Skeets]

That'd be great.

[Trey Kirby]

That would be a huge step forward for them. Paulo, I'm looking at you a little sideways. Always been a big fan, but you need to step your efficiency game up.

[Jay Skeets]

Are you pumping the brakes on Big Rig himself?

[Trey Kirby]

No, no, I'm tuning him up. I'm taking. I'm paying for the full detail.

[Jay Skeets]

All right.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. You. A few weeks ago you said that Franz Wagner may be the best player on the Orlando Magic.

[Trey Kirby]

He's very good.

[Tas Melas]

I know, I know.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't ever think he'll be able to shoot, though.

[Tas Melas]

No.

[Jay Skeets]

You've given up on that.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I did too. Yeah. I was buying into the Euro basket even in just the Warm ups. I thought it was smoother wine too.

[Jay Skeets]

Isn't it?

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

It's just. Ain't him. It ain't him. But it is Desmond Bain for sure. So we'll. We'll see an improvement.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Here's another tough one to figure out. The Philadelphia 76ers, 24 and 58 last season, 13th in the Eastern Conference. They drafted V.J. edgecomb, number three. No idea who's playing for this team any single night.

[Jay Skeets]

No, you don't. Which makes it very difficult to try and slot him in here to our tier that we have.

[Trey Kirby]

And B does sound like he's gonna be ready. Ready sooner rather than later.

[Jay Skeets]

So what does that mean? I don't know.

[Trey Kirby]

He was playing one on one and five and five in practice. Like that's a quality update for Philadelphia 76ers.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jay Skeets]

I hate this team so much. I hate talking about Jeremy McCain already.

[Trey Kirby]

Tyrese Maxi. He's healthy. They signed Quentin Grimes finally.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like vj. Like he's going to have a lot of highlights I think when he gets that opportunity and dunk on some guys, catch some bodies for sure. But if things start poorly, which they might because their main guys are injured, like will they just lean into a rebuild? And will anyone want to trade for Embiid or Paul George because they have a ton of years left on their contracts. Embiid has four, I think pgs three. Yeah, it's. But is there anyone desperate enough that would think that one of those guys could help them?

[Tas Melas]

I don't know.

[Jay Skeets]

I think it's a possibility. They'd obviously be taking the calls. I don't know where to put them. I guess they're. They're not the. They're not bad. Bad, bad. So they're playing hopeful. Is that disrespectful?

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know. I think you're right. And a potential mid season. They could bump up or down either way. Like if we are seeing Embiid and Paul George actually be healthy. Jared McCain comes back. Back after his UCL surgery and his fine. Like they could look like a playoff team. They've got a lot of talent in their top five or six after that as big time question marks when we're talking about trend and Watford or Kelly Oubre as a starter for this team or Paul George and Joel Embiid aren't able to stay on the court and we're talking about a team that's looking at lottery odds again. So I think it's Fine to put them in Tier 4 for right now knowing that they're probably moving one way or the other eventually.

[Tas Melas]

We're not a team that just talks about the best teams in the NBA. We are, we're. We're a podcast that talks about all of them. But this is one team I just don't want to talk about frankly. That's. It's hard to do that. It's hard to get anywhere near excited about this team. So throw them in there, there. We'll see what happens. You're right. They may be bumped. There's lots of questions. There's just too many questions to even go through and I won't. I won't.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

They got a lot of all star appearances on this.

[Jay Skeets]

Paul George and Beep in the queue. Yeah, he's got like 5 or 6y.

[Tas Melas]

I got a drumming for a couple.

[Trey Kirby]

Great call, Maxi. He's got one, two, maybe two.

[Tas Melas]

Just one, just one.

[Jay Skeets]

Add them all up. It's good.

[Trey Kirby]

Add them up.

[Jay Skeets]

Up.

[Tas Melas]

Add him up.

[Trey Kirby]

Phoenix Suns 36 and 46 last season. 11th in the Western Conference. Kevin Durant's gone, Bradley Beal is gone. But Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green and Mark Williams are here as is Common Malach. They got three centers now. Yeah, they went from starting, they went from Nurkic and Plumley to two Hornets and a Malawatch as their centers. Weird team. The Phoenix sucks.

[Tas Melas]

Very weird.

[Jay Skeets]

Very weird. They are hoping that Dylan Brooks and all these other guys can help the Suns climb back to sort of an average defensive team in this league. That would be a great start. They're trying to get back. They're trying to find an identity after the whole Katie Beal experiment and they seem to be leaning into like obviously keeping Devin Booker. Here's our guy. He's our guy. He's our go to scorer. But we need some more dogs or some like defensive minded guys and that's going to be our best chance to win games. They're tough to figure out. I was high on or a little higher on them than most when it came to their over unders which was low. I think they're going to be. What'd you say, 36 win team last year?

[Trey Kirby]

Yes.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I think that's sort of ballpark that would to me then probably has him as a play in hopeful. I can't go higher than that. But I want you to remember that this year's Suns, they're not going to be measured in wins and losses. They're going to be measured in success. What? Yeah, that's what owner Matt Ishbia said a couple weeks ago, that was his. Basically his exact quote. I hope that we win more games than we won last year. But the truth is, it's not going to be measured in wins and losses this year, but it's going to be measured in success. Yes. What? That's a real. That's a riddle.

[Tas Melas]

That.

[Trey Kirby]

That's literally a riddle. Because I'm like, are wins not success?

[Jay Skeets]

He's. He's saying, not this year. I guess that's not how they're measuring success. So I don't.

[Trey Kirby]

I remember. I remember when Jim Boylan said that about the Chicago Bulls. They were bad. Oh, when he was talking about wins and lessons versus wins and losses.

[Tas Melas]

I get what he's saying, though. They're turning around the organization in a way where we're not sure. Just buying guys here and there. We've got a new attitude. We've got a new locker room. This is who we are.

[Jay Skeets]

He's basically saying we're not going to be all that good.

[Tas Melas]

To some degree.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, but that's okay.

[Trey Kirby]

We're building a real team.

[Jay Skeets]

Yes. And as long as we have the right attitude every day, then that's the stepping stone.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I was definitely question. I questioned Brian Gregory as their gm, who had never been a GM before, questioned Jordan not to see what he can do as a new head coach in the league. But I understand what he's saying. And I guess he's also saying, like, we're going to make money. Like, I'm trying to compare it to his business. I'm trying to compare it to mortgage rates. Like, we're not going to be 2% better. We're going to be 2.5% better anyway. There's no real good reference there and there's no real good.

[Jay Skeets]

I think the Phoenix Suns, that's their tagline this year we're going to be 2.5% better. I think that's perfect.

[Tas Melas]

That's good.

[Jay Skeets]

I have them winning about out 37, 38 games.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, they get anywhere close to that. Even if they. To the 1.8% or whatever it is, that'll be an accomplishment because this. So they're 36 and 46 last year. It would be such more of an optimal 36 and 46 this season if they did the exact same thing right to me. Even if they don't have Duran.

[Jay Skeets]

We came in like fools last year, went, oh, they're title contenders. Look at this squad. They could all play healthy. And the three main guys. Well, we were High. Wow. Yeah. Oh yeah. There was a lot of Buddha Noller love coming from this guy right here. I know that. I was buying it. I think somebody else on this desk.

[Trey Kirby]

He was tan, he was very tame.

[Tas Melas]

But anyway, last year shooting threes in those preseason.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes, he was.

[Jay Skeets]

So we have him as a play in. Yeah, I think that's right. That'd be a good season.

[Trey Kirby]

They hope they make the play in.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Fantastic, right? A 36 win season this year for the Suns is a success. Nat Ishmael, he's a wise man.

[Jay Skeets]

Right. But, but then again, like 36 wins, you're not even going to come close to a play.

[Trey Kirby]

No, they're hopeful for 36 wins.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

I think they'll be okay when Booker is on the court and then when he gets off the court you're like, oh, will you?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[Trey Kirby]

I, I, I do watch the Jalen Green Nick Richards two man game.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah. I oddly think there is something though with still a good, awesome Devin Booker and then all these like sort of pieces around him like this like sort of misfit toys, like cast offs is.

[Trey Kirby]

Another way to say it.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

And they're completely like no one cares about the Phoenix Suns now. They're completely forgotten in any sort of conversation. Like that might work in their favor is what I'm getting at here. They might surprise people. But I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[Tas Melas]

There are plenty of cast offs. I think Jared Butler scored 35 in a preseason game. Few excited about Jared Butler.

[Jay Skeets]

Nigel Hayes Davis, he's a, I'm a big definition of a cast on man. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Big fan of his. He played at University of Wisconsin like a hundred years ago. He played for them so long ago because then he like he went over and played internationally for five or six years or something like that.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

He's 30. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. So they're trying. That's exactly the type of player, the type of attitude that HBO wants.

[Jay Skeets]

These hungry guys.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, he's a hungry guy. He's always been a great defensive of guy. I'm gonna watch Colin Gillespie play point guard for this team. He might be their only point guard. That's it. The end of my statement. There's they're desperate, they're desperate for players. We'll, we'll see if honestly a 30 win season where they're playing hard, dropping.

[Jay Skeets]

Wins now like Matt Ishmael, hey, we win one game. That's my success to me as long as our attitudes right.

[Tas Melas]

I said 36 and a 476 is a heck of an accomplishment. 30 and 52 with guys who play hard.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Tas Melas]

Like, somewhat hard last year. They didn't. They didn't care defensively. They did not.

[Trey Kirby]

So you're sort of getting that to.

[Jay Skeets]

How I started this conversation. Like, I think a goal for them is to be an average defensive unit.

[Tas Melas]

Right, Right.

[Jay Skeets]

Not garbage on that end. Like, can we start with that? Start with that and whatever that translates into. Wins and losses.

[Trey Kirby]

We'll.

[Jay Skeets]

We'll start with that.

[Tas Melas]

They're trying to change inch.

[Jay Skeets]

Man. We are coping hard, this team right now, man.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow.

[Tas Melas]

It's a lot. Good luck to everybody.

[Jay Skeets]

Every team.

[Trey Kirby]

We do talk about everything, including the Phoenix Suns.

[Jay Skeets]

How long will we talk about? 76ers. Yeah, man.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, west coast, that's tough. They have to stay out. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Get your son's takes in early, is my point. When we start the season.

[Trey Kirby]

The mortgage matchup Center.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Can't wait.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, that's the name.

[Tas Melas]

What a name.

[Trey Kirby]

Said Stepping stones earlier and I was like, that sounds like a name that. The Phoenix Sun Arena Stepping Stone Center. The Portland Trailblazers, they also went 36 and 46 last year. Finished 12th in the Western Conference. Drew Holiday in, Anthony Simons out, and they drafted Yang Hansen.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Scoot Henderson. Banged up to start the season.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Are the Phoenix Suns better than the Blazers or vice versa? Versa.

[Trey Kirby]

Right. Same spot.

[Jay Skeets]

Same spot.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

To me.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

And like, obviously, at least in the Blazers camp you have like, hey, look how great we played at the end of last year. Like, we were really solid. We were figuring things out. Our guys are still young, they're growing. So that's like sort of where it differs a little bit than the Suns where it's sort of all brand new. Just like with sort of this blown up team now and we go at it again. So I think they are. I think the Blazers are a little bit better than the Suns.

[Trey Kirby]

They come in with an identity at least. They're like, we're going to play defense. But they could easily be a bottom five offensive team in the league this year because, like, Denny Abdia is probably their best offensive player.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean, they're gonna hope it's sharp.

[Trey Kirby]

I think, but yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Obvious Coming off the bench, like, that's crazy to me.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Well, we'll see the roster issue that they have with him and Jeremy Grant. The answer is, you play Danny Avdia, but the fact that. That you're paying so much for Jeremy Grant is a. Is a bit of an issue. You should expect this team to be better than the Phoenix Suns in that comparison because they're paying Drew Holiday a ton of money. They went and got him to help out their defense. Chauncey Billups went and signed two offensive coordinators essentially to help out their offense because they were good on the defensive end.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

So they have. Yes, they gotta. They've got definitely a. An attitude that they should come into this season with. They've got expectations.

[Jay Skeets]

They've. The expectations are what? A play in spot. That's probably what they have on the whiteboard. Playing or bust.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, probably.

[Tas Melas]

Do coaches put that on a whiteboard? That's so sad.

[Jay Skeets]

No, but, you know, imagine coming into.

[Trey Kirby]

The locker room and seeing that.

[Jay Skeets]

Let's go.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, what does the Suns one say? Success or bust?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, it just says wins and losses don't matter. That's what it's like. That's actually really good if you're a player like, damn, no pressure in this game today.

[Trey Kirby]

Let's go crazy.

[Tas Melas]

Get better by 0.1% every day. I think that's.

[Jay Skeets]

It's like Matt HP is saying to his son's players, hey, just make me feel good.

[Trey Kirby]

That's exactly what he's saying. Make them feel good.

[Jay Skeets]

But I do have them in a playing spot to get back to the Blazers and I. A lot of their potential does rest on this idea of like this internal growth from these guys. Yes. I mean, I don't like Scoot that he's already injured, but Scoot, Henderson and. And Shaden Sharp like they showed. They show flashes of brilliance. They really do. They now need to become like consistent NBA players where you start stringing it together for months on end or if not the whole season and have that steady production. So hopefully that's the. That's what they're doing. Can't wait for Young Hansen. It's going to be fun. The highlights are going to be great. Great. The defense should be good.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to expect with Young because they drafted Donovan clinging last year and they're going to start him.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Like he was one of their good rookies last year, I thought. And as a defensive forward team, like, you need to have a good defensive center, but Hansen looks like he's got some skills at the very least.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

There's just not a lot of center minutes to go around.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, we say that, but then it's like time alert ain't gonna play.

[Trey Kirby]

No, but I'm saying, like, If Clingan plays 30 minutes a game, which I think would be a lot for him.

[Jay Skeets]

That'd be a lot.

[Trey Kirby]

Still only 8, 18 minutes left.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, man. Just split it.

[Trey Kirby]

Just split it.

[Jay Skeets]

24 for the defensive guy, 24 for Chinese jokic. Let's go. Done.

[Trey Kirby]

Simple.

[Jay Skeets]

38 wins.

[Tas Melas]

Excited for Shade and Sharp, that's for sure. Cause he's going to have the opportunity to score a lot. And Drew Holiday is talking him up already and how much talent he has. And he's just a raw talent who can put the ball on the floor. 18 1/2 points per game last year, especially no scoot this year. There is a ton of shots to be.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah. That's why I picked him for most improved.

[Trey Kirby]

Is this year four for Sharp?

[Tas Melas]

Yes.

[Trey Kirby]

Still raw, huh?

[Jay Skeets]

A little bit. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. I'm. I'm not big on sharp.

[Jay Skeets]

No. No.

[Tas Melas]

22 years old.

[Trey Kirby]

He's like yearsine ceiling and I don't even think he gets there. We'll see. Sacramento Kings 40 and 42 last season. Ninth in the Western Conference. They brought in Dennis Schroeder. Keegan Murray hurt to start the year. I guess they lost Jonas Valentunas.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Any King's thoughts?

[Tas Melas]

Oh, such a sad time.

[Jay Skeets]

They can't stop anyone. I don't. This scout is to me is going to be one of the worst defenses in the league. So that's going to be an issue. And how does that even like sort of bleed into the offense right when you're like, you know, the defense ain't stopping anyone. Everyone gets a little. Maybe a little shot happy, get a little ISO heavy with the guys that can do it. Obviously in Levine and derogatory. I don't know how to feel about this team. I used to be the biggest Kings.

[Tas Melas]

Fan in the world.

[Jay Skeets]

They defeated me. Now I. Now I know what actual Kings fans feel like for the last basically two plus decades. Like, you know, it gets you excited a little bit and you talk yourself into it and then they just like rip your heart out.

[Tas Melas]

So.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. The fact that they got smaller with Keegan Murray's injury does not bode well for their defense with Demonte Sabonis protecting the rim. They're teeny tiny and I love my Keon Ellis out there as the dog defensively, but they don't have enough. They do not have enough defensively. So their peak points.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, their peak is tier four here.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And it's just a question of do they actually decide to blow it up.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And is anybody interested in any of these longer contracts they have? I think I mentioned it earlier. In our season previews that DeRozan is like most likely to be traded. He's got a decent deal right now. He's like 25 this year. 25, 25 next year, maybe 27 next year or something like that. But a player who could be acquired, I think for a contending team.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And then who knows after that. But yeah, I think it's fine to put them in the play in hopefuls like they. They are not going to want to be bad just because they never want to be bad. They just want to be mediocre.

[Tas Melas]

Go Bulls.

[Jay Skeets]

So. So that's what I see when I get the Kings. Go Bulls. Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

San Antonio spurs, big time team to talk about here. 34 and 48 last season, 13th in the Western Conference. That's with only what, 46 games for Victor and 17 for Dear and Fox. They drafted Dylan Harper, number two. He looked pretty solid in preseason so far. They also drafted Carter Bryant and brought in Luke Cornett who had a great clip alongside Wimy flexing his muscles. Got Wemby to laugh on the court.

[Jay Skeets]

Good for vibes.

[Trey Kirby]

Good for vibes. That guy's a great vibesman.

[Tas Melas]

That's where the French vanilla nickname is from. But somebody recommended on our YouTube page. I'm sorry, I don't remember who made that reference, but he said what about French horn? Because cornet is a brass instrument. French horn, that's fun. French Vanilla fun. This team should be fun. But how many games are they going to win? I worry about the guard play. There's no doubt you do. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Castle, rookie of the year. Harper looking strong.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes.

[Jay Skeets]

Looks really good.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, it'll a lot beyond Harper, I think there are two different guys. Castle, you won as a sort of secondary playmaker, not as a main ball handler. But yeah, Dylan Harper, well, him and Fox who's injured. I mean we have to have to say that. When is he coming back? How healthy will that hamstring be? I think he is one. Finally one guy that we can say his sort of injury prone. I don't like saying that about the guy because maybe he's just healthy again. I said in the preseason, even though he had a hamstring injury, he said he was running 15 miles per hour on the treadmill. That's fast. And the Spur and the spurs are just saying, listen, we've got a regular scene to worry about. Fox, get off the treadmill, don't run. We'll see you there. So it's. Yeah, I do, I do, I do worry about. About their health because Even though they've got some wing, some wing depth, you know, throw it in a quotation mark depth. I'm not sure how great it's going to be around Wemby tbd.

[Jay Skeets]

But this really comes down to Wemby in all honesty. Like, is this guy already going to be top 75 wherever in the league if he has a healthy full season here? He's in his third year. I think it was Simmons going through all the, like, greats at the center position, a lot of them. You know, you're going through your careems and your shacks and stuff like that. That third year, that's when they explode and have teams like winning a ton of games into playoff series if not going deeper. And is Wemby just added to that list as he just keeps growing and growing and growing. He's now dunking with the feet on the ground. I know you saw that clip. Oh, yeah. So he's just, he's just making his playoff debut here in year three. It could be.

[Trey Kirby]

I think he does.

[Jay Skeets]

You think he does via the play in. Okay, yeah. If we're putting them in that team.

[Trey Kirby]

I still think they're like a 7 to 12 kind of team, but they can win a play in game and then make it into the playoffs, which I think would be awesome to see. Basically the question is like, can he be for the Bucks what Giannis was for the or for the spurs what Giannis was for the Bucks last year? Like, Giannis did have Dame alongside him. You know, I think Dame Lillard, higher rep than Dear and Fox, but, you know, same sort of setup. It's like question marks basically everywhere else, but we got a great big man, we got a great guard as well. Is Wemby as a top five player able to lift them to the top six of the Western Conference? I think that's asking a lot just because the conference is so deep, but I think they'll improve. And as long as Wemby is able to play 70 games, like, I think they're going to be 500ish at the very least.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, they're over. Under was like 43 and a half and a lot of us were like, we were debating, like, do you just go under or do you just go over? Because it feels like they're going to be in that ballpark.

[Trey Kirby]

Would you have them above the Portland Trail Blazers?

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, absolutely.

[Trey Kirby]

Would you have them above the Memphis Grizzlies?

[Jay Skeets]

Yes. I was going to say if we're putting them in that fourth tier, the play in tier, I would put him at the top of it.

[Trey Kirby]

Would you have them above the Dallas Mavericks?

[Tas Melas]

Not I.

[Jay Skeets]

No. No.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't think so either. Unfortunately.

[Jay Skeets]

We could made. Oh, we could be made to look very silly with this. It's. It's the wimy factor, for sure. Hope. I hope we're wrong. You know, who wouldn't want to see him go nuts? Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Because like you said, that he plays. They're a top 10 defense. The minimum, basically. Probably better.

[Trey Kirby]

No, I said they were a top five defense and somebody tweeted at me, made me feel sad.

[Jay Skeets]

What happened? You were wrong. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

They're only a top 10 defense. My bad.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Sorry.

[Jay Skeets]

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. What are you, a piece of Teflon? No. What is it?

[Trey Kirby]

Space agent.

[Jay Skeets]

Space agent. I'm neither of those things.

[Trey Kirby]

But I am being hard on myself. I hate to see an angry tweet from a listener just calling me out. And even more so, I hate to see that person be right and me be wrong.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. That's the real kicker anyway.

[Trey Kirby]

That's okay. They'll be top five.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. Playing hopefuls. But at the top of that tier. Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

We're getting. That's a thick tier.

[Tas Melas]

That's a thick tier. And healthy Fox will pull us out of it. I know it's all about Wemby, but he needs a guard to help him. He does, and Fox will do that.

[Trey Kirby]

The Toronto Raptors finished 30 and 52 last season, 11th in the Eastern Conference. Their main additions are Brandon Ingram, who they traded for last year but didn't. He will be playing this year. They also brought in Mamu and Colin Murray Boyles. How are you guys feeling about your Toronto Raptors?

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I don't. I don't know, man. I usually put no stock into the preseason. Haven't loved what I've seen from Scotty Barnes in the preseason.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, the midi maestro.

[Jay Skeets]

I'll say that I don't love that. But how do Ingram and Scotty Barnes gel together? Is Darko a good coach? Because there's expectations for this team. They pay a lot of money for a team that's. I think their goal has to be at least 500, like with the. Again, the amount of money they throw at these guys. So I am playing hopeful.

[Tas Melas]

How bad has Scotty been in the preseason?

[Jay Skeets]

His shot selection's been abysmal. Yeah. Again, he might just be going through the motions, which I don't love to see. I mean, he shouldn't be Doing that. I think you can do that when you're maybe Luca and SGA and sort of that tier of guys that just hasn't been great.

[Tas Melas]

That's surprising.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Because his shot selection should be entirely different. Playing with the guy who's going to lead the. The team in scoring with and Brandon Ingram, he doesn't have to do the same things anymore with Quickly healthy. I don't know how many minutes they're playing together, although they have been playing together since September. So this is a little bit worrisome. That's a little bit worrisome.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

I haven't watched Raptors preseason games, so tbd. I feel like. I feel like on. On paper we got a team, yes, they should lock into the playoff hopes, but at some point they should be a playoff lock if they are all together. But I can't put them there. I can't put.

[Jay Skeets]

That's the thing. You can't.

[Trey Kirby]

Better than the Bulls.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. For me.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Better than the 76ers?

[Tas Melas]

For me. Yes.

[Trey Kirby]

Better than the Pacer. Pacers. Current Pacers.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Their old friend Pascal Siak. Yes, I think they are. I think they are. I think they are better than the Celtics. That's where I. Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

So no.

[Jay Skeets]

So no. So you're saying they're playing. Man, they're playing hopeful.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, yeah. Scotty Barnes is the next Aaron Gordon. He is miscast in his current role. He needs to go to a good team and be the third or fourth guy.

[Jay Skeets]

Guy.

[Trey Kirby]

Not a top two option. He just doesn't have. He has more of an additive game than a leader game, I think.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Take a layup, man. Get to the rim. Dude's big and strong. Crazy long arms and all he wants to do is shoot 15 footers. You're not Kawhi.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

And that's the worrisome part. Even though I haven't watched a minute of these preseason games that have has been the talk from Darko Reakovich. It's been get in there. There getting cut in your duck ins are going to be there. You're going to be there on the baseline, your dunker spot. You're going to be playing off Ingram a lot. So that's the worrisome part because even though he is, yes. A1 a guy on this team, he's not the leading scorer anymore. And quickly should be a guy who should be shooting a ton. So yes, he's important on this team, but he should be taken way fewer shots and be happy with it and good at it. And he has been talking about that.

[Trey Kirby]

That's why it's hard to.

[Tas Melas]

To be a little negative about it because the guy's good enough to be a help guy. There's no doubt. And he's talking about playing defense more and that's going to help him and not having to be the guy who shoots all the time. So here we are.

[Jay Skeets]

There are positives with this team. They ended strong on the defensive end last year. They should be a decent defensive team. And I am excited for a Brandon Ingram sort of bounce back type season. I think he's going to remind a lot of people like, oh yeah, he is really good and he's going to be in that lead role. Scotty hopefully slots into the second, maybe even third at times with. With quickly, who's looked really good in preseason. I will, I will add he's firing up threes and hitting a decent amount. So they're just. Yeah, they're just not a playoff lock. But you got into that right spot. Like, are they better than the Heat? Are they better than the Celtics without Tatum? Like they're right there. They should be right there.

[Tas Melas]

They should be.

[Trey Kirby]

But we'll see our final two teams, the Use and the W's. The Utah Jazz 17 and 65 last season, 15th in the Western Conference. They got all these slow old guys we've been talking about and that's kind of all they did during the off season outside of drafting Ace Bailey. We did get some inside information from a Jazz source who says the person coming in last in all of their sprint races right now is Kyle Filipowski.

[Tas Melas]

But.

[Jay Skeets]

But he's a little banged up, isn't he? He's banged up.

[Trey Kirby]

He's got a bad foot.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, okay.

[Trey Kirby]

But not a lot of speed on this.

[Tas Melas]

So bad. But they're letting them sprint.

[Trey Kirby]

Gotta get his foot up to speed. They're saying as soon as you can beat George Nian in a race, you can play.

[Jay Skeets]

I don't even think Niang's been racing here. No, he ain't been racing.

[Trey Kirby]

Maybe Nurkic is killing it.

[Jay Skeets]

Who knows?

[Trey Kirby]

Hey, Bryce. Sensible looks good in preseason.

[Jay Skeets]

Guy's a bucket.

[Trey Kirby]

He's a bucket. Bucket.

[Jay Skeets]

Bailey is a bucket man.

[Trey Kirby]

He is.

[Jay Skeets]

At least in preseason he's got.

[Trey Kirby]

I think I just saw that he's got bad knees going on right now. Probably from carrying the team in the preseason.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, he has.

[Jay Skeets]

Ace Bailey has bad knees. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Maybe just because he's playing a whole bunch.

[Jay Skeets]

I don't know. Oh, I don't love to hear that though. He's like 10, 10 perhaps. Oh, okay, okay. I was gonna be a bad team there. Duster boys nut Dustin team here now. Like they owe their 2026 first round pick to the Thunder under which dates Back to the 2022 trade that dumped Derek Favors salary on OKC. But the pick only conveys if it falls outside the top eight. So the Jazz just gotta be, you know, if they're, if they're basically one of the, one of the worst four teams in the league, then they're good. You can't fall out of that. You know, even though even the lottery odds were brutal for you. So they're gonna keep that pick. It basically dissipates. I wrote in my notes how exciting will Ace Bailey be. Like how many games will he make me watch of the Jazz? Because you know, like there's a lot of basketball to watch here in regular season. Yep. And it's just the Jazz are going to be low on the list. I'm sorry. When it comes to league pass games, I'm not going to be on national toe guys games a lot. So. But, but Ace Bailey, especially early in the season, maybe you can get me tuning in to see it. But probably a lot of highlights for the Jazz when it, if I'm being honest, honest of him.

[Trey Kirby]

Beautiful jerseys fully, fully gone in on the mountains and they look great.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, I think that's the, the biggest upgrade of the off season. And the logos, they just go to that one more primarily. Right. Like the simple purple and white.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I think that's their primary now.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Last year it was black.

[Tas Melas]

It was black.

[Trey Kirby]

Cool.

[Tas Melas]

Great move there.

[Jay Skeets]

I also read it was Sarah Todd of the Deseret News. She reported in March that the Jazz quote did not view last season as the third year of a rebuild, but rather as part of a tear down for a rebuild that hasn't yet started. Okay. That was last year. So we are now in theory in rebuild because they did trade a bunch of guys, I guess in, in the Jazz front office's defense of Collins, you're out of here and you're out of here and stuff like that. So that's how they're looking at this. That's all I'm saying.

[Trey Kirby]

So the rebuild starts. Starts now.

[Jay Skeets]

Rebuild starts now.

[Tas Melas]

Okay, great.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay.

[Jay Skeets]

So we have.

[Trey Kirby]

Will they win more games than last year? 17.

[Jay Skeets]

I said yes.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I think I did.

[Trey Kirby]

I think, I think you're right.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

They're over.

[Trey Kirby]

Under was low.

[Tas Melas]

Right. Like 18 and a half in the last four teams that have had an over under of 18 and a half or lower have gone over.

[Jay Skeets]

Right. That's what that's.

[Tas Melas]

That was if they are into that kind of thing.

[Trey Kirby]

Better or worse than the Nets, do they think?

[Jay Skeets]

Worse.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, Less wins West.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, exactly.

[Trey Kirby]

Final team, Washington Wizards, 18 and 64 last season, 15th in the East, 29th in the NBA. They brought in CJ McCollum. He is a Washington Wizard. They also have Cam Whitmore. They drafted Trey Johnson, who he is at least on our odds board for.

[Jay Skeets]

Rookie of the Year, third or fourth. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And Will Riley. They also draft good old Canadian boy.

[Jay Skeets]

That's right. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Canadian slash. Played for University of Illinois. So we can all back him.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, wow.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. That guy is skinny.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. They got a lot of young guys on this team.

[Trey Kirby]

Many.

[Jay Skeets]

I think we're slotting them into the final tier. It's probably just. Where are we putting them? I think they'll be better than the Nets and the Jazz, personally. Maybe. That's crazy. I got him up high. Got him right behind the horn. Yeah. Just obviously this is a growing year here and figuring out of all these young guys, who's the building blocks?

[Trey Kirby]

Who's it going to be at the end of the year? Who do we look back on and say, oh, this is the guy for the Jazz or for the Wizards?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, it's a great question because it could be Kula Bali, it could be Alex Sar, it could be Bub Carrington, it could be Trey Johnson comes in as the rook and and shines. Keyshawn George does look good. I think there's something there. I don't think he's maybe a superstar potential, but he's going to be a good role player. Who else am I forgetting?

[Tas Melas]

You named all the guys that are questioning.

[Trey Kirby]

People are excited.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Well, Cam wit play more. Who knows?

[Trey Kirby]

He should play more.

[Tas Melas]

He should. Than what he did last year with the Rockets for sure. But I can't put them higher than the Nets.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow.

[Tas Melas]

No, no, because all those guys you just said, could they take the next step? They also may not take the next step. For sure, the Nets have guys. But anyway, throw them where you want. They're in the dust team where you want.

[Trey Kirby]

They might be an option for one of us.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

I mean, come the end of the.

[Jay Skeets]

Season, it looks like the three teams we have at the bottom of our tier ranking are probably our nut dust teams. Right in the Wizards, the Nets and the Jazz.

[Trey Kirby]

Is that who we had last year? Hornets was one?

[Jay Skeets]

No, somebody had the Hornets.

[Trey Kirby]

Somebody got in on the Hornets.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Because the Nuts had quite a few wins, actually 26 wins last season because they got so many at the beginning.

[Jay Skeets]

And we. Somebody also changed teams.

[Tas Melas]

I did. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. We like, did a quick redraft at some point. Anyway, do you have your eye on any of those nut dust teams, Tas, that you would like to back to not be the worst of the Wiz Nets, Jazz?

[Tas Melas]

I thought you'd never ask.

[Jay Skeets]

It only took me two hours and ten minutes.

[Trey Kirby]

Whoa, whoa. I mean, it felt chunky, but hey.

[Jay Skeets]

Don'T worry, it's not a part one.

[Trey Kirby]

Basketball is my favorite sport.

[Tas Melas]

Can't wait. Then. I'm picking the Nets to stay away from that. Being the nut duster of them all. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Trey, who do you actually agree?

[Jay Skeets]

Who do you want?

[Trey Kirby]

Who do I want?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Yeah. If Tass is taking the Nets, we're picking him now. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Why not? Sure. I'll take the Wizards. I had the Jazz last year.

[Jay Skeets]

Damn it. I don't want the Jazz. I was hoping you didn't want the Wizard. Okay, okay.

[Trey Kirby]

We'll figure out Ace Bailey, man. I'll have you tuning in. You'll be watching these early season jazz games, right?

[Jay Skeets]

I'll watch the highlights of Ace Bailey, man.

[Trey Kirby]

Ace Bailey versus Trey Johnson. Epic duel.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Right now I'm gonna. Just to spite you, I'm coming in one of these shows. No, not a two games. No, no. I was gonna say one full jazz game early in the year and I'm doing 20 minutes on the podcast and you just got to sit there and take it, man.

[Trey Kirby]

Jazz Report, we're going through 1 through 15 here. How did Yusuf Nurkic look? Was he faster than Kyle Filipowski? Tune in to find out.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, JD Going to need you to get a nice little, like, little jazz sound effect for the Jazz Report, cuz we're going hard on the jazz. Yeah, yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Play the Spurs. There's a French horn, French corn in there. Tie in there, man.

[Trey Kirby]

French corn.

[Jay Skeets]

Nothing wrong with French vanilla. Just, just.

[Tas Melas]

Okay, that's fine.

[Trey Kirby]

French horn is a cool instrument, though.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, it is cool. French.

[Trey Kirby]

You stick your hand in it.

[Jay Skeets]

You don't like French vanilla. You were about to say it sucks.

[Tas Melas]

I was, yeah, Yeah. I ain't into it, but I like.

[Jay Skeets]

Going with French vanilla for this show because that then completes the trifecta of basically beverage sort of puns or nicknames we made. We had the Tommy Beer. Tommy Beer, the French vanilla as a beverage, and I'm drawing a blank on the other one already. Damn it. There was. Oh, Aer Coffee. You Said Amir.

[Trey Kirby]

Coffee?

[Jay Skeets]

Cup of coffee. Yes.

[Trey Kirby]

Delicious and delightful.

[Jay Skeets]

All right, throw this up. Let's see it. Let's just go over it. How do we feel about it now that we got all of our teams, all 30 teams in our tiers?

[Trey Kirby]

Any change Orewskis to make here?

[Jay Skeets]

You want to read them out for the podcast list?

[Trey Kirby]

Well, in our tier one, the title contenders, we go, Thunder, Nuggets, Knicks, Cavs, Timberwolves. Tier two, we call them the Final four. Flirts, Rockets, Warriors, Magic. Honestly, feel like there could be another team in there, distribution wise.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Tier three, playoff locks. Clippers, Lakers, Hawks, Pistons, Mavericks, Bucks.

[Jay Skeets]

It's probably our weirdest tier, if I'm being honest.

[Trey Kirby]

It's a weird tier.

[Jay Skeets]

It's like I feel like we are either killing it and we're like perfect on it or we're way off.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

I don't know.

[Trey Kirby]

Playing hopefuls. This is a, this is a lot.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

How many teams are in here? 15 teams.

[Jay Skeets]

No, no.

[Tas Melas]

Wow. 12.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay. Tier four, Spurs, Grizzlies, Heat, Celtics, Celtics, Raptors, Pacers, Sixers, Blazers, Bulls, Suns, Kings, Pelicans.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean right now it's like everybody's 00, right. We're optimistic. Eyes on the prize of the play.

[Trey Kirby]

In 12, 12 playing hopeful teams and like, that's right. You're talking about 7 through 12 in both conferences.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, I mean it adds up. Yeah, I think maybe. Yeah, I was gonna. Yeah, yeah. I mean obviously some team there in that group is gonna be ravaged by injuries, are gonna lean into, build. They're going to trade away somebody like probably three teams in that mix and some of those banged up teams coming in, be it the Celtics and Pacers, like we think they're going to be average still, but maybe they won't, maybe they're not. Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Bottom tier, tier five, the Nut Dusters. It goes Hornets, Nets, Wizards, Jazz.

[Jay Skeets]

There you go. Of all the fan bases after we've ranked these, who's going to be the most upset?

[Trey Kirby]

Raptors. They're just generally upset.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, they feel like they're like they're.

[Trey Kirby]

Not a playoff team. Did you see Brandon Ingrams through the mid range Jumper?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Just looking here, we got the Knicks, the Cavs, we got the Magic, the Hawks, the Pistons and the Bucks. So we do have six Eastern conference call them locks to get into the playoffs. And then it's like anything could go with your, your Celtics and your Pacers and your Raptors.

[Trey Kirby]

And look, maybe Rockets fans are like, look, we should be title contenders.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Yeah, they might be.

[Trey Kirby]

They Got strong fans.

[Jay Skeets]

Fans, like, physically strong. Who do you think has the strongest fan base? Just straight up, if they all fought and not pure numbers. So it's like not pure numbers. You pick the 100, the 99 most strongest fans from a fan base and have them fight. We should do this video. It was like, get millions of views on YouTube.

[Trey Kirby]

Miami Heat.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, wow.

[Trey Kirby]

Strong beach culture. Maybe it's just glamour muscles. I don't know.

[Jay Skeets]

I was gonna go sort of middle America. Okay, maybe like, maybe, maybe OKC or I like, sure, yeah. Look, just like, I'm going, okay.

[Trey Kirby]

Bucks have the cheese factor and the Pacers have the corn fed factor.

[Tas Melas]

I'm taking the Boston Celtics.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, beans factor.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, beans. Beans and just attitude. I just want to hear that accent. Like, how do you fight with somebody? I'm parking here. No, I'm parking here.

[Jay Skeets]

The Knicks fan base too. I mean, they'd have a loud bark at least. Yeah, for sure.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. All right, answer that question.

[Trey Kirby]

Physically strongest fan base.

[Jay Skeets]

Who's the weakest fan base?

[Trey Kirby]

Warriors. So no offense. No offense to my warriors fans.

[Tas Melas]

What's the reasoning?

[Trey Kirby]

Tech bros.

[Tas Melas]

They're attack bros.

[Jay Skeets]

I love it. Okay, let's call it there.

[Trey Kirby]

That was. Wait, it might be me.

[Jay Skeets]

Magic Orlando.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, Retirees.

[Jay Skeets]

Ooh, Ooh. Wow, wow, wow. Yeah, maybe sage.

[Tas Melas]

Pure H. That's a good point.

[Jay Skeets]

What about. What about the Raptors? It's too kind up in Canada.

[Tas Melas]

That's good.

[Jay Skeets]

Fight.

[Tas Melas]

I punch you in the face. Sorry, sorry.

[Trey Kirby]

Hockey culture, though.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, right? Yeah, that's a good point. And the Toronto fan base does love any sort of like scrappy Raptors, but player like your junkyard dogs of the world.

[Tas Melas]

And Matt Bonaire.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, just anyone that sort of replicates a hockey player, like, that's our guy.

[Trey Kirby]

Luke Travers.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay, that's it.

[Trey Kirby]

Wow. Let's extend it here. We have to three hours.

[Jay Skeets]

One of the longest podcasts we've ever done. But hey, a lot of teams to rank. A lot of debates were had.

[Trey Kirby]

We didn't even get to the Guangdong Lions or the South Melbourne Phoenix. Teams that are outpacing the Knicks. Where would you have them? I think they're nut dusters.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, they're in the sixth tier for being honest. Our next podcast Friday, where we're going to answer some burning questions. So maybe you have a question that you want us to address. We're not doing beach stepping. We're just talking, you know, some sort of big picture questions when it comes to the actual upcoming season. But that's Friday, so we're back then. So you have all the time in the world to digest this very long podcast if you're not joining us live. So all you podcast listeners, space it out, take your time and we'll be back on Friday morning. Till then, Clipper Bros. You heard it here first.

[Trey Kirby]

Have a great time. Turn up. Love you guys. Awesome.

[Tas Melas]

Thanks for joining us. And remember, let us know what you think of French Horn versus French Vanilla for the nickname for Wemby and Luke Cornett. Both great.

[Jay Skeets]

Praise the day people.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

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[Trey Kirby]

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[Jay Skeets]

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[Tas Melas]

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