Spurs Pass The Physical, East Favorites & Magnets with Ben Golliver

Summary

No Dunks Podcast Summary

Episode: Spurs Pass The Physical, East Favorites & Magnets with Ben Golliver
Date: February 24, 2026
Host(s): J. Skeets, Tas Melas, Trey Kirby, JD
Guest: Ben Golliver (NBA journalist, host/co-host of Greatest of All Talk, author of "Bubble Ball")

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Episode Overview

This episode features the No Dunks crew catching up with Ben Golliver. The group delves into Ben's "magnet man" reputation, his recent Washington Post exit, NBA travel and journalism stories, and, most importantly, an in-depth breakdown of the Spurs' win over the Pistons (highlighting Wembanyama, the Spurs' title outlook, the Pistons' offensive ceiling, and the East playoff race). The crew also covers injury trends, the 65-game rule, tanking, KD’s Olympic ambitions, coaching attire, and some offbeat fun about LEGO collecting and model trains.

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Main Segments & Discussion Points

Ben Golliver's Magnet Obsession (02:53–06:56)

• Ben clears the air about being called "Magnet Man," confirming he has "hundreds and hundreds of magnets" collected from national park trips, but claims "there’s a method to the madness."
• Magnet Selection Method: Picks the gaudiest and most distinctive magnets, favors those with unique animals or landmarks from each destination. Sometimes ends up with 3–5 per trip if the wildlife is exceptional, but never as many as 30.
• Quote:
  • “It’s not Supermarket Sweep…Most pressing news of the day in the NBA.” (03:24, Ben Golliver)
• Storage: Only one on the fridge (Michigan football championship), rotates 50–60 on a wall with a magnetic backdrop, rest are carefully stored in Tupperware in his garage. Dreams of doing a huge display if he ever has a basement.

Life After the Washington Post – Journalism Reflections (07:44–12:21)

• Ben discusses being laid off after seven years at the Washington Post, where he covered major events (Olympics, NBA Finals, the Bubble). He shares how it felt and career highlights.
• Standout stories: Caitlin Clark profile (junior year, before her big NCAA Tournament run), both Paris Olympics basketball medal games (Steph Curry’s heroics), the NBA Bubble Finals.
• On the WaPo sports department closure:
  • “It was a dream job. They literally were just like: ‘you want to go to Iowa, write about Caitlin Clark? …Yes, yes, yes.’ And then, in true sports fashion, they just decided to do a teardown rebuild right in the middle of the season.” (09:43, Ben Golliver)
• On transitioning: Praises his podcast & newsletter community for support; now focuses on his Substack, which quickly hit #2 in new subscriptions across categories.

Game of the Night: Spurs Beat Pistons – The Finals Preview? (12:21–20:53)

• The crew and Ben break down San Antonio’s 114–103 win over Detroit (their ninth consecutive win), framing it as a potential NBA Finals preview.
• Ben’s Analysis (13:05–15:02):
  • Highlights the defensive intensity, but points out Detroit’s offense as the weak link, especially against San Antonio’s guards and Wemby’s rim protection:
    • “Detroit’s looking around saying Tobias Harris, Duncan Robinson, you guys are not built for this. … They don’t have enough juice on offense.” (14:12, Ben Golliver)
  • Suggests Detroit may regret not making a bigger trade deadline move for offense.
• Pistons’ Shortcomings (16:24–16:57):
  • JD and Taz highlight issues: lack of a clear #2 option, no dependable outside shooting, key supporting players underperforming, and the SAR Thompson “non-shooter” conundrum.
• Wemby’s Impact (17:58–20:53):
  • The panel marvels at Wembanyama: dominates with defense, able to dictate games without overexerting offensively thanks to better guard play and ball movement.
  • Quote:
    • “You really cannot play two non-shooters at the same time against San Antonio and get away with it because they will just crunch the court on you.” (18:17, Ben Golliver)
  • Ben calls the Spurs "not a mirage" and true Finals material:
    • “They could go from the lottery to the Finals. We basically never see that in the NBA.” (20:49, Ben Golliver)

Wembanyama MVP Race and Physical Play (25:27–29:45)

• Wemby’s MVP case is debated—Ben picked him as his preseason favorite if he can clear the 65-game mark, sees him as a “top 3” player going forward (25:35).
• On physical play: Panel discusses whether teams can wear down Wemby, whether he needs an “enforcer” or bodyguard-type teammate:
  • “They need Charles Oakley, don’t they?...Whoever that guy is will be the second most popular Spur.” (27:57, Ben Golliver)
• Skeets, JD, and Ben debate if Keldon Johnson fits that role and riff on his size and presence around Wemby (29:04).

Injury Trend & 65-Game Rule (31:04–35:44)

• Ben reframes the 65-game debate: the real NBA crisis is unprecedented injury rates, not just load management.
• Key quote:
  • “The NBA has an absolute injury crisis…Bodies are breaking down, calf strains, Achilles…even guys who were basically indestructible…are having injuries…just being wasted on 30 guys…missing so much time.” (31:04, Ben Golliver)
• Endorses examining the style of play (“has it gotten too fast?”) and contemplates the possibility of fewer games. Also notes young stars (Zion, Ja, LaMelo, Trae, Luka) face wear-and-tear that could limit their prime years.

More Spurs Praise: Castle’s Defensive Emergence (35:00–38:57)

• Ben and the crew heap praise on Spurs’ rookie guard Stefan Castle, especially for his defense on Cade Cunningham:
  • “It’s crazy how hard those guys play…Castle is so relentless…he makes you feel it both ways.” (36:18, Ben Golliver)
• Castle’s relentless two-way play may make him a perennial All-Defense candidate and All-Star, especially paired alongside Wemby.

East Favorites, Celtics, and Cavs Post-Deadline (38:57–45:08)

• Ben is a “Western Conference elitist” but lauds the Celtics’ culture, experience, and defensive connectivity—pegs them as the team to beat in the East “if Tatum’s healthy.” (39:14)
• Trade deadline: Names Cleveland as biggest mover (Harden acquisition), believes Cavs improved despite the risks:
  • “Not a perfect option, but Manny still got some good basketball in him. There’s a chance they could reach the Finals.” (41:05, Ben Golliver)
  • Notes the motivation for most deals is financial, not solely contention-based.
• On Harden: Points out he’s always paired with another star who also faces postseason scrutiny (45:10).

Audience Questions & Fun Topics

Tanking & NBA Parity (48:18–53:48)

• Ben is skeptical of most anti-tanking solutions, thinks flattening odds may have backfired, and advocates “don’t talk about it” as best fix.
  • Quote:
    • “People get way, way too deep into this…the championship race right now (has) 10 great teams. Unfortunately, tanking is a huge distraction.” (50:49, Ben Golliver)
• Discusses policing tanking partly due to the explosion of legal gambling.

Coaching Attire (53:48–57:12)

• Should coaches go back to suits? Ben, a quarter-zip aficionado before it was TikTok-famous, supports the traditional look for leading. Others reminisce about Pat Riley’s style versus today’s baggy sweats.
  • Quote:
    • “If you’re an NBA coach…why not use (your) budget? Just feels like a wasted opportunity all around.” (55:20, Ben Golliver)

Offbeat Finals – Model Trains & LEGO (61:30–64:31)

• Ben reveals he branched out from LEGO to model trains for Christmas—assembled a Canadian Pacific set, complete with hat, and recommends the hobby for "tier-one dorks."
• Quote:
  • “Quarter zip and a train conductor hat. What more do you need? This is the peak of fashion.” (62:44, Ben Golliver)

Olympics & KD’s Legacy (58:10–61:26)

• Kevin Durant wants to play in the 2028 LA Olympic Games.
• Ben says KD would deserve an honorary spot, calling him USA Basketball’s standard-bearer.
  • Quote:
    • “If anybody was going to be deserving of the honorary old guy spot…it’s Kevin Durant…nobody’s earned it more than he has.” (58:58, Ben Golliver)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On magnets:
  • “It’s not like I’m taking 30 down…for now, it’s just the memories.” (04:21, Ben Golliver)
• On Wemby’s leap:
  • “He’s 1, 2, or 3. And…that’s crazy for a guy who’s only in his third season.” (25:35)
• On injury epidemic:
  • “The NBA has an absolute injury crisis…even Joker and Shea are suffering real injuries and I don’t want us to get numb to that.” (31:04)
• On coaching attire:
  • “If you’re an NBA coach, you’re getting like a budget for your clothing…why not use it?” (55:20, Ben Golliver)
• On USA Basketball:
  • “His commitment to that program has been incredible for a really long time. …If anybody was going to be deserving of the honorary, old guy spot on the roster, it’s Kevin Durant.” (58:58)
• On model trains:
  • “Quarter zip and a train conductor hat. What more do you need? This is the peak of fashion.” (62:44)

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Timestamps to Key Segments

• Magnet Talk: 02:53–06:56
• Washington Post, Journalism Stories: 07:44–12:21
• Spurs-Pistons Game Breakdown: 12:21–20:53
• Wemby MVP, Physicality: 25:27–29:45
• NBA Injury Crisis, 65-Game Rule: 31:04–35:44
• Castle’s Defensive Impact: 35:00–38:57
• East Picture – Celtics/Cavs: 38:57–45:08
• Harden in Cleveland: 43:27–45:15
• Tanking/Solutions: 48:18–53:48
• Coach Fashion: 53:48–57:12
• Olympic Basketball/KD: 58:10–61:26
• LEGO & Model Trains: 61:30–64:31

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Tone & Style

The episode is classic No Dunks: light-hearted, witty, and nerdy, with deep hoops analysis interspersed with humor, banter, and offbeat stories (magnet collecting, model trains). The language is casual, friendly, and filled with good-natured ribbing—no jargon-heavy explanations, just accessible and passionate basketball talk peppered with unique NBA and pop culture references.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a great window into why No Dunks and Ben Golliver have cult followings: basketball insight, sharp yet playful wit, and a willingness to get weird—whether that’s defending the honor of magnets or model trains, or breaking down why Detroit needs another scorer to keep up with Wemby in the Finals. A must-listen if you want a sense of both the NBA’s present battles and the off-court stories that create its culture.

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[END OF SUMMARY]

Transcript

[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Taz Millis]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Taz Millis]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Gulliver]

Huh?

[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

Come on, baby.

[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think.

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[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[Taz Millis]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the no Dunks podcast, presented by FanDuel. It's Tuesday, February 24, 2026. I'm J. Skeets here in the classic factory and alongside me at, as always, Tas Millis podcast listeners.

[Taz Millis]

This is for you and Ben.

[J. Skeets]

Next to him, it's my top shot, hot boy, Trey Kirby Ayo. Hey, yo. And over yonder, making the magic happen, super producer JD Hello. There he is. And we have a returning champion. He's a national NBA writer and co host of the greatest of all talk pod. He's also the author of Bubble Ball, and he just launched his very own substack. I'm attracted to his work. Like a magnet to a fridge. It's Ben Gulliver. What's up, Ben?

[Ben Gulliver]

Not too much. Guys, I'm so glad you started with the magnet stuff because I was listening to yesterday's show and you're calling me Magnet man, which I really appreciate. You're calling me Bubble Ben, which I really appreciated, but I have a poem to pick, Skeets, because you are making it sound like I just go willy nilly buying every single magnet. Like I have no self control when I go to these national park stores. And look, I'll be honest, I have hundreds and hundreds of magnets. So you're not lying, but there's a method to madness. I would be glad to explain it to you and clear my good name so people don't think I'm just, you know, nuts walking in the store, just cleaning them out every single time like it's Supermarket Sweep. It's not Supermarket sweeps, kids.

[J. Skeets]

Well, okay, well, talk me through it then. What's the decision making behind all these magnets?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, look, every destination you go to, you want the gaudiest one. It doesn't have to be the biggest one, but it has to be the most distinctive, the most colorful, the most unique. So you start with that one. Right? So if you're at Arches national park, you're getting the one that's just bright orange and it's going to look awesome. But my secondary rule is if I see a particular animal that's unique to that area or it's not super easy to find just in your everyday life, I'm going to look for a magnet that specifically has that animal as well. Now, if there happens to be a special waterfall, you know, another, you know, side note of interest at that particular park, well, I want to remember that, too. So do I come home with 3, 4, 5? Sometimes? If it's a really good wildlife trip. Trip. Maybe so. But it's not like I'm taking 30 down.

[J. Skeets]

Okay. I'm a one magnet for one place type of household. But I respect what you do with each attraction at said plate.

[Taz Millis]

I want to hear the. If you approve of this nickname, the Magnet Magnate, are you cool with that? I mean, great alliteration. You seem to have some influence.

[J. Skeets]

It's.

[Ben Gulliver]

No, it makes me sound like an entrepreneur. I love it. Look, I'll take any nickname that has been given to me because on my podcast, I have to give myself nicknames like the Oracle from Oregon. And, you know, sometimes, as you guys know, the best dick Nates are once you earn, not give yourself. So I'll take whatever you've got.

[Taz Millis]

You've earned that one, man.

[J. Skeets]

And before we move off the magnet talk here, what do you do with all of them? Like, do you just store them or what do you do?

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, no, because you were speculating about that yesterday, too. Really Glad to clear that up for you guys. Most pressing news of the day in the NBA. So here's the funny fact. I have one magnet, actually, on my refrigerator, and it's to commemorate Michigan football's national championship. That's the only one that makes the refrigerator go blue. Now, I have a wall that has sort of like a magnetized backdrop in one of the hallways of my house. It's not super prominent, but I could put about 50, 60 of my most recent finds on there. And you could rotate those out. The rest of them, I'll be honest, and I'm not a hoarder, but the rest of them are just being stored very carefully in huge Tupperware containers in my garage. The dream one day is to, like, you know, be cool enough to have a basement. Right? Right. Maybe. Maybe I could buy Trey's old house in Illinois. I don't know if that's still. But if I can ever get myself a basement or a real garage, I will just display all of them, and it will blow everyone's mind. And we're talking hundreds, maybe close to a thousand. But for now, it's just the memories. Man, that's incredible.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah. I do want you to have. Yeah, like a. Like a man cave or obviously in the garage. I'd like to picture you having, like, eight beer fridges just for your magnets, though. I don't even know. I don't even think you're a heavy drinker, but I just want you to have a bunch of fridges so you can put them up.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, it sounds like a great idea. I mean, let's just skip the fridge part. Let's just have a giant wall of magnets on the magnet. Magnet I think that's what it's going to take because honestly, like, you need a lot of square footage. I used to have little magnet boards in my living room. Probably like eight to 10 of them that could each hold maybe 20 magnets. And it wasn't nearly sufficient, you know? And it gets frustrating because you're like, oh, this amazing trip gets overlooked at the exp. You have to make choices. You don't want to make choices. They're like children, you know, you want to honor all of them one day. I'll get the basement.

[Taz Millis]

Okay, since we're talking about layouts of houses, I see a treadmill behind you. If you're watching on YouTube here, it's the far bottom left corner. Is that a walking treadmill? Because I've always wondered if that's really fun, you know, if that's something I

[Ben Gulliver]

should, you know, probably about three times, four times a year it dips below 72 and sunny here in Los Angeles. So, you know, I don't want to brave the elements. I'm sorry to anyone who's been dealing with tough snowstorms back ease. But, yeah, you know, you watch some games, get on the hopping, the walking treadmill. Is it fun? Absolutely not. You know, I'm not like a juice head gym guy like you, Taz. I just. I just.

[Taz Millis]

That's me.

[Ben Gulliver]

I just try to burn a few calories so I don't, you know, get too fat during the season.

[J. Skeets]

Oh, you're looking great, man.

[Taz Millis]

That's what they call me at the gym. So jumping juice head, man.

[J. Skeets]

You had. You had some big news recently in your life, Ben. You were, I guess, what, you were there seven years at the Washington Post, and they suddenly decide to shut down their sports department? You did tweet your final score, which I enjoyed. 1500 plus stories, 50 plus million pages, two Olympics, one bubble, seven NBA Finals, one book, and countless incredible colleagues and editors. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Did you have a favorite of your 1500 plus stories or maybe even just one of the events that you went to and got to cover working at the Post?

[Ben Gulliver]

I mean, I think the big highlights would be people know me for a Caitlin Clark profile I did during her junior year at Iowa. It was just perfectly timed because it was right before the huge tournament run where, you know, she has the controversy with Angel Reese at the end of it. And so I would say for me, as a reporting highlight, going to the middle of Iowa, which, you know, just never been to Iowa City before, I'm going to like the Herbert Hoover Presidential Museum on the way there. Yes, I did buy a magnet big time.

[J. Skeets]

I bought 29 magnets from there.

[Taz Millis]

Oh, the Hoover. You sucked them up.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, exactly.

[Taz Millis]

Right.

[Ben Gulliver]

Well done. So I would say that was a big time highlight just because you, you felt like you were on a huge, huge story a little bit before everybody else. The gold medal game and even the, the semifinal for the Paris Olympics with Steph Curry just going bonkers. I mean, he saves the US Basketball dynasty twice. I can hear the Canadians kind of roll their eyes, these guys.

[J. Skeets]

No, it was amazing. It was amazing.

[Ben Gulliver]

Those were big games, super high stress games, incredible crowds, and just the kind of things that you're like, well, it's kind of all downhill from here. But to me, it's always the high level games that gets me the most excited. You know, I was at every NBA final since I started with the Post and including the Bubble, which of course was a crazy experience. 93 days ending with the Lakers championships. So I would say those were some of the best moments for sure.

[J. Skeets]

And how much of a shock was this with the Washington Post sports department shutting down?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, it was weird. You know, there's no question about it. I always said, like, they pretty much gave us free rein, whatever we wanted to do for six plus years. And so in a lot of senses, it was a dream job. I don't come away from this, like super bitter or angry because they literally were just like, oh, you want to go to Iowa, write about Caitlin Clark? Oh, you want to write about Cooper flag? Oh, you know, whatever pet story I might have had. Let's follow Wemby around for the first two weeks of his NBA career and see how that goes. Like, it was always just, yes, yes, yes. And then in true sports fashion, though, they just decided to do a tear down rebuild right in the middle of the season. And I didn't, I didn't make it to the trade deadline, guys, unfortunately. And you know, it was, you know, blindsighting for sure. But there was some rumors and trickles, you know, in the months and really dating back to the 2024 election. I don't know if people would be super surprised to hear that. So it was disappointing and definitely a jolt. But I felt like I did the best work of my career at the Post, met so many incredible editors and got to read just unbelievable writers. We really did have a dream team that was disassembled, unfortunately. So we'll see where everybody kind of eventually lands and how it all shakes out. And it's unsettling kind of in the interim, right. As you're trying to figure out what the next moves are. But it's a chapter I'm going to look back very fondly on and it's going to be, you know, we always hear those stories, oh, like Sports illustrated in the 90s or the 80s. It was so crazy. Like, that's kind of how I felt. Just a little sliver of that with the post here the last seven years.

[J. Skeets]

Well, you're the hottest free agent name this summer, no doubt. Where will Ben Gulliver land? But in the meantime, you got the substack going, obviously have the podcast as well.

[Ben Gulliver]

Keep telling everybody that. Skeez, you're my. You're my street team. You come across. Keep saying that. That means a lot and it could help. No, the substack's been crazy, though. I think you guys know I've got the podcast community. A lot of what we've tried to do with the greatest of all talk has been modeled off what you guys have done for, you know, almost 20 years, I think, or more than 20 years now. You know, just building the community and they've really stepped up and helped supported the substack. And I was blown away the opening week when I was number two on the new charts for every, every new writer, any category. So that, that said, the power of our podcast community for sure, how much people love basketball, which is always great to see at a time when a lot of people like talking down on basketball. So I was off to a good start there and feeling good about it, writing all sorts of crazy stuff too. By the way, national parks, we're getting into like stories behind the stories of. To my reporting journeys over the years. Of course, I had to lead off with Lego because everybody knows me as the LEGO guy. So it's, it's a potpourri. It's not just NBA stuff. And so far people have enjoyed it.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah. And that link is in our show notes, so make sure you subscribe to Ben Gulliver's new substack. Well, let's talk some hoops here. We've done enough preamble there and enough magnet talk. We had an awesome game last night, Ben. I'm excited to Hear your thoughts. Wembanyama 21.17 Board six blocks and Devin Wassell was on fire. He had 28 as the spurs beat the Pistons. 114. 103. In a potential maybe NBA Finals preview, the spurs have won a season high nine games in a row. Ben, this matchup had some intensity of a playoff game. It was a lot of fun. I like that it was on like a, a night in the NBA where there wasn't a lot of games on. This was the marquee game. So if you were an NBA fan, you were probably watching it. What were your big takeaways from the spurs beating the Pistons last night?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, it was also cool that such a great game was on America's like 19th largest streaming network. I think that was a real cool twist just for to surprise everybody. I say that after going to Lakers, Celtics on Sunday where NBC just the entire farm, they're covering it. Not quite as high level of a game, I will say in Los Angeles. So here's how I look at these kind of final previews games. It's just a top down version. I always look at the four units, right? Offense, defense for both teams. And we tend, as analysts are just like the public at large. We always focus on the best units, right? So I'm looking at San Antonio, I'm looking at Detroit. I'm saying they're going to have elite defenses, right? That's, that's really what's going to drive the discussion. If they were to meet in the finals, it would be pitted as like this defensive battle. But what I tend to do is look for what I think is the weakest unit. And in this case I would have said the Pistons offense was the weakest of those four units. And, and I think a lot of times, especially in the playoffs, that weakest unit is what winds up deciding the series. And I think if these two teams were to meet in the finals, I don't think the Pistons have enough offense to keep up. You know, obviously Cade struggled, but you know, from the efficiency standpoint. But that's going to happen when the spurs have all these guards who are incredible defenders who are going to harass him and they've got Wemby patrolling the paint like crazy. Didn't that game turn in the third quarter with that spurs just defensive push? Wemby's blocking shots like crazy. Everything's just going nuts. And Detroit's looking around saying Tobias Harris, Duncan Robinson, you guys are not built for this. I'm sorry, it's not going to be enough. And so it makes me wonder, should Detroit have considered doing something at the deadlines, loading up a little bit, getting another weapon? Because I think they have enough offense to get through the East. I don't think they have enough offense to win a championship. And if you guys want to just, you know, like go Gaga over Wemby for the next 20 minutes. I'm glad to do that too. But I thought the hardcore basketball analysis takeaway was Detroit is really awesome. They've had a dream season. They don't have enough juice on offense.

[JD]

Yeah, seven made threes for the Pistons last night. Devin Vassell and Julian Champagne combined hit 12 together. I think Vassell hit seven himself. And you're exactly right, Ben. It was kind of like a shock to the system. It felt like to me, for the Pistons, trying to figure out how to attack Wemby while also having to deal with in particular Cade being defended by Stefan Castle. Castle was all over a man. Like getting over screens, pressuring the ball 94ft. They threw everything at Detroit. Cade couldn't really crack the code. They couldn't hit from the outside. And you look around and the only move they did make at the deadline was getting Kevin Herder. Guy didn't even play last night. Not like they really are missing out on anything. Jaden Ivey is feeling like he might retire after the season with the Bulls, but it felt like they to me, watching it last night, it's like, ooh, this does make you a little concerned for the high end outcomes for the Pistons because where do they get offense if Cade's not able to be an efficient player? It was basically like Duran, can you grab an offensive rebound and get it back up before Wemby shuts it down? But you know, they talked a lot after the game about looking at the tape and figuring out how to attack San Antonio. They play again pretty quickly here, so that'll be a huge game to me once again to see how they adjust and figure out any way to have an offense that makes sense because last night it was pretty ugly, especially in that second half.

[Taz Millis]

They needed some contributions from a lot of guys. That's the thing with the Pistons. You don't have a number two guy in general. Jalen Durham did his thing in this one, but because it is so sparse, the other guys are just going to have to all contribute a shot here or there. And you saw even though Ron Holland was awesome in this game playing his defense, you know he goes over from three, Javante Green, also over from three, Sark Thompson. We've all wondered this coming into the season, could he be the guy? And he did have a few shots in this game, but honestly his energy level wasn't high so they yanked him after 18 minutes.

[J. Skeets]

He got benched.

[Taz Millis]

Yeah. Which has happened with JB Bicker staff before. I wonder if he Yawned. Honestly, it looked like there was a yawn in there that he covered up with a towel real quick. Yeah, what up with that? But honestly, it also showed on the floor. He was standing out behind the three point line, just not moving and not crashing again. He makes a few shots, but somebody needed to make shots. The, the Duncan Robinson who has been there in, in place of the guy Malik Beasley who made all those three point shots, you know, he, he made a few in this one, but literally open shot after open shot. So three for, 11 for three from him. They just missed too many shots. Caris Lavert was just stepping on the sideline. That guy had four turnovers. A couple of them were literally stepping on the sideline. So was it just the big lights for this supporting Pistons team at home and just not ready? But Also, yeah, the 1B factor was a big. As you said in the third quarter, Ben, when the Wemby factor picked up, the Pistons literally were rushing shots and missing shots and were unable to to counter the Wemby. And that's what it kind of came down to.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, talk about Wemby, Ben, for sure. Because man, this guy like he was getting pushed around, he was getting bullied and this was the game plan, of course, and I'm assume it's going to be the game plan for a lot of teams. But he weathered the storm and then started to realize, well, I'll just draw all the extra defenders as well and start setting up other guys in addition to like shutting down the paint with every block shot.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, I start with the defense because I really felt like the defense, there was a lot of swings where the broadcast kept being like five point swing, six point swing because Wemby would erase something on one end, they would go straight down and score the other end. And that's winning basketball. That's potentially championship basketball if you're a Spurs fan. So you get super excited about that. On the SAR Thompson point, we've all heard about their incredible development story. Like growing up they had the checklist of all the things that they wanted to do to kind of make it to the NBA and get a shoe deal and all this stuff. How did nobody put make a jumper on the checklist? It's the single most important part of modern basketball. Neither one of them can shoot and neither one of them are going to be able to really hold up in big time playoff games if they can't shoot. That's especially true against San Antonio because we already screws up every team spacing just by standing on the court, right? Your spacing is screwed up. You really cannot play two non shooters at the same time against San Antonio and get away with it because they will just crunch the court on you. Your offensive efficiency will go down so far. And so you're almost obligated to put whatever shooters you have on the court just to kind of open things up so you can even breathe on offense. And then typically in the NBA, the shooters are the guys who can't play defense, right? So you go down the other way and. And now all of a sudden, it's a field day for everybody on San Antonio. What I love about how the spurs have developed this thing is that even though Wemby is an extraordinary offensive talent as well, I mean, he's an A plus defensive player, A to A plus offensive player. Already at this stage of his career, he has gotten away from feeling like he has to do everything, which was part of the problem earlier in his career, because they've got the other guards because they have really good spacing for themselves on offense and because they trust the pass, you know, and it was a big question that I had when they went to get Fox, was it going to be too much? £ £ £ Castle is not the world's most traditional point guard, so sometimes you worry, is he going to be able to keep the flow moving. But they have just bought in together with the. With passing the basketball. Wemby's been a big part of it. And then, man, when he can finish plays after a couple of passes at the rim, or he could step out and shoot the three pointer, or he can hit the mid ranger if the entire thing breaks down. There's so many different ways Wemby can beat you as an offensive player. It's kind of like good luck. And I want to tip my hat to Jalen Durant. I thought not only did he fight hard, you know, as the Pistons always do, you know, looking for a little scrap here and there, I mean, he was pushing back and given some offense in the second half too, but it just doesn't matter, you know, Wemby was too much for them and the Wemby effect was too much for them. This San Antonio team means business to me. This is not a mirage at all. I think we have to start thinking about they could go from the lottery to the finals. We basically never see that in the NBA. It's definitely possible for these guys.

[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

And what do you think about Wemby's chances at MVP here too? If he can obviously hit the games played quota. You think that's a realistic opportunity?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, like I said, I call myself the Oracle Oracle from Oregon. That was my preseason pick. So I've got my fingers crossed he could stay healthy because it would be a pretty wild one. I don't know if he's going to be able to do it. You know, I think there's going to be the opportunity as we get into the dregs of the season. Maybe you're wrestling him here and there, you know, what exactly is the motivation? But I hope he continues to gun for it. And I, you know, he showed us at All Star Weekend like he cares about the games, he cares about his reputation, he cares about the awards that he didn't win last year, but he's robbed of a defensive player of the year last year because he got the blood clot. And so I hope he sprints to the finish line and makes himself a real factor. But I always do the top 100 rankings, you know, every single year before the season. Going into next year, Wemby can't be below 3. He's 1, 2, or 3. And so then the question becomes, all right, well, him or Shea? Him or Joker? Like, to me, that's. That's where the conversation starts. And that's crazy for a guy who's only in his third season right now.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, it's a great point. It's almost like a conundrum. I feel like, with Wemby and the spurs having to play the Pistons again on one hand. Awesome. Like, let's run it back. But if I'm the Spurs, I'm maybe like, yeah, let's not play Wemby again in a very physical sort of obviously, like, playoff intensity game. Just any concern of him getting injured. How many times did he fall over again last night or get pushed over? You know, he took like a sort of an elbow to the back. I thought that was a little bit of a cheap shot, I think. Was that Javante Green or Thompson? Anyway, point is, hit him.

[JD]

Cade hit him. Cade was playing a little extra physical. Oh, yeah, they totally brought it to him. And Wemby's missed, what, 14 games this season, so it's pretty close. Yeah, chopping up there, but, I mean, he's clearly the best defensive player in the league. He was like, he needs, like, a halo block or like a force field block where, like, you saw Duncan Robinson, like, good luck. Why would he ever try and shoot in the lane? Cade was passing up shots in the lane. Took him completely out of his rhythm. Went 1 for 15 in the second half. And Wemby didn't even have, like, an efficient offensive night at all. But still just completely dominated by doing, like, traditional big man, dirty work, Jared Allen kind of play. But he's seven foot five. He's got Cade calling him an eight footer afterwards. Ben, do you have any concern that this is how teams are going to play Wemby? They're going to try and rough them up once they get into the playoffs. Seven games of this guy falling down every three minutes.

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, I think you want to rough him up, and you also want to, you know, go after the ball when it's in his hands. You want to double, you want to try to force turnovers, you want to try to speed him up. He's so good at speeding up other teams on the. When he's playing defense, but he can get sped up offensively. We saw that a little bit earlier in the season when teams were, you know, really, you know, trapping him hard when Fox was out and he struggled to handle that pressure. I think really for your guys standpoint, it just creates an incredible opportunity though. It's like he needs a bodyguard. And who is that bodyguard? You know, it seemed like maybe Sohan would have been that guy, but it just didn't materialize there in San Antonio. I look around at the team, he's got a lot of running mates. But does he truly have the bodyguard? Like the guy who's willing to take the 10 game suspension, you know, if anybody messes with Wemby? Because they need Charles Oakley, don't they? I mean, they need a Charles Oakley on this team so badly. And whoever that guy is will be the second most popular spur. I promise you. They're going to sell crazy jerseys. So Mamo to Brian Wright. Go find your Charles Oakley. It will be incredible. We will all love it.

[J. Skeets]

We don't think it can be big body. Kelton Johnson, he stepped to kid and

[JD]

then during, you know, went back at Keldon Johnson. I think he's the guy right now at least.

[Ben Gulliver]

And you know, he's big.

[JD]

He's not huge.

[Ben Gulliver]

I was going to say, does the hair make him shorter? I don't know. Shave his head and all of a sudden he's not as imposing.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, we were just around him in Aust and we were at the Casa de Spurs and he was doing a fireside chat the night before and we were in the same room and he got up and he walked by Trey Kirby and we all were like, oh yeah, he is. He's actually maybe a little bigger than we thought. We were trying to determine his height and all that. Doesn't look as wide when you're just by him in a. In a place.

[JD]

But that's cause he's usually next to Wemby. So he looks pretty wide. But I was impressed. He seems like a guy that actually underestimates his height. Like he's listed at 6 5. I think he could easily be 6, 6, 5.

[J. Skeets]

That's what we were saying. That's what we were saying for sure.

[Ben Gulliver]

Interesting. Interesting. All right, you're blowing my mind. All Kelly Johnson, your job. Maybe it's because he's standing next to Wemby is why he looks short. And so maybe any bodyguard is going to look short next to Wemby. Maybe it has to be somebody who's like young Hansen or something like that. You know, you got to get somebody who can, you know, look at Wemby almost eye to eye to, to be the one who gets his back. But yeah, I also, I feel like is like a real player. You know, part of what I'm looking for here is like just, you know, mashing the glass, rebounding and, you know, at hard fouls. That's all I want from the bodyguard.

[Taz Millis]

Yeah, but Wemby's too modern for that. I think Wemby will say, no chance. I need a bodyguard. I'm going ISO. It's modern basketball. We're all taking care of our own. But especially it's modern day basketball that, yes, there's some physical play, but there's not a ton of physical play. And honestly, it kind of did in the, the Pistons yesterday a little bit. First possession, Cade was guarding Visell, but here comes Viselle on a pick. Wemby's flying by, so I'm gonna go tag Wemby Basel wide open splash. And that got him going because he was, he was incredible. But yeah, the guys you mentioned and Kelton Johnson, they, they all contributed to this team. So that was very impressive. I do wonder, speaking of the, the modern day NBA and how we have the 65 game rule, Ben, do you think they do away with that rule even as early as next season?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, what I want to do is change the focus from the, the small things like, oh, is 65 the right number and put it down to 60. Let's take step back and just be honest. The NBA has an absolute injury crisis. You know, if you look at all the number of stars who have been injured this season, the percentage of games they've missed, it's absolutely nuts. I ran an analysis back in like November, and Only the top 30 players, the highest paid players combined, were on track to cost their teams. I think it was like $500 million in salary for games they don't play. So it's a half a billion dollars just being wasted on 30 guys because they're missing so much time due to injuries. If you flashback three or four years ago, the question was, oh, it's just load management. You know, these guys don't want to play. Now what we're seeing is the style of play in the NBA. It's not manageable. They can't handle these loads. It's too much. Bodies are breaking down, calf strains, Achilles. I mean, we're seeing all sorts of different muscle issues. And even guys who were basically indestructible, Joker, Shay Giannis earlier in his career are having injuries now. That Are sidelining them for real amounts of time during the season. And so rather than get caught up in the minutiae of an MVP debate about 60 versus 65 or should we get rid of the rule or whatever, let's take. Take a step back and figure out what the heck is going on. And are there changes to the game that can protect these guys? Has it gotten too fast? Right. You know, the scores are incredible. Everybody gets excited. You know, somebody hits 150 points, it's like, you know, wow, this is crazy. But, you know, are this. Are the bodies able to hold up to that strain of getting up and down and playing that fast? I don't think they are. And so, I don't know. I think to me, it's something that NBA needs to really look at is style of play modifications so that guys can be healthy enough to. To be out there and play. Because guys like Joker and Shea are not ducking just to duck. They want to be out there and they're suffering real injuries and everybody is. And I don't want us to get numb to that.

[Taz Millis]

Isn't the. The only answer fewer games where they don't have to play three or four times a week versus twice a week? And as you said, because it's costing teams so much money, maybe you can go to the table with that and say, hey, your guys will be playing more and you don't have to have 82 games sold for each and every franchise.

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, I feel like there would be a financial tipping point at some point. I'm not sure we're there yet. I mean, the NBA is making so many billions, I guess they have a half a billion to. To write off as an expense here in terms of the injured stars. Right. But if it continues to worsen and all the trends are saying injuries are up, you know, over the last five to six years compared to where they were previously. The other concern that I have, and this is a bigger picture one, a lot of these star players who are getting drafted really high are no longer developing into their primes in their late 20s. They're sort of hitting a wall with recurring entries in their mid-20s. That makes me nervous because we want a lot of faces of the NBA. We want a lot of guys vying for that title. Right? But you're seeing big time, you know, prospects Zion Williamson, John Morant, Lamelo Ball with the recurring injuries. Trae young in their mid-20s, and even Luca, you could say, is physically not really where I would have expected, you know, at this stage of his career. Even though he's having a phenomenal, you know, top five, top six MVP type season, you know, he doesn't move like somebody who's his age, like you would expect. Right. And so I think the wear and tear stuff, the amount of games, how many games they play before they get into the NBA and just the rigorous style of play is really chewing through some of these guys. And it's potentially going to be shortening careers or at least shortening primes. And you know, that makes me nervous as somebody who loves basketball because, you know, just like everybody else, the draft's coming up, everyone's tanking. Like, I'm getting excited for this next crop of guys. Then you look at Darren Peterson and it seems like he's already load managing in college, right. It's like, what's going on here? So hopefully there's some people who are smarter than me and more powerful than me who are, you know, kind of steering the game in a slightly better direction here so we can kind of stop this trend.

[J. Skeets]

To go back to the game last night there, Spurs, Pistons, I know we brought him up a couple times, but Castle, that job that he did on Cade Cunningham, and yes, Wemby's roaming and he's changing shots and he gets in the back of your mind. And that's a big part of why Cade only went, what, missed 21 of his 26 shots. But Castle, Ben was all over this guy. And Cade Cunningham got into foul trouble too. Maybe that played a part. But you know, Wemby, yes. Defensive player of the year. If he hits, obviously games played, he's going to win it every freaking year. Is Castle the best, one of the best point defenders already in this league at his young age? Because with the effort he gives, the balance, he plays with the intelligence. I think he plays with, with not reaching and stuff like that. What do you think of Castle's not only game last night, but his season, his progression here?

[Ben Gulliver]

I remember traveling down to the islands and sometimes they do like the crab fights, like they put the circle, you know, on the, on the sand and it's like the crab's going out. It's like put Castle and Casen Wallace and the Thunder Guards and the Spur Guards in that circle. It's like who's. Who's coming out alive, right? It's crazy how hard those guys play. Well, here's, here's a good point on Castle, though. You always hear basketball guys, it's like cliche is like you have to make people work on the other end, right? So like, you could be this like, great defensive player, but like, if you're only a defensive guy, like take Chris Dunn, you know, it's like you kind of get the night off on the other end.

[J. Skeets]

Right.

[Ben Gulliver]

If Kristen's out there. Castle is so relentless with the basketball as well. What? He has it. So it's like whatever his matchup is, you're feeling him defensively and you're exhausted and you're like, kate, you just want to shove him to the court. Get out of my space. I'm sick of you. Right. But then on the other end, somebody is responsible for trying to keep Castle out of the paint and away from the rim. And he is coming downhill like a young Russell Westbrook whenever he gets the opportunity. Right. So he makes you feel it both ways. And I think that's why he's become such a valuable player. He's not perfect. Like, the shot isn't necessarily where you want it. Sometimes the vision stuff, you know, it leaves a little bit to be desired, but just that jolt of electricity that just goes through him. 48 minutes a game is such a game changing impact for San Antonio.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah. And he had one of those. You already alluded to it because they said on the broadcast, one of those five point swings, if you want to call it. I think it was in the third quarter there. Cade was tired of his shit, started body him, threw him a nice big elbow to try and dislodge Castle under the rim. He goes up with it. Castle still blocked it, somehow saved it. They went the other way and I think it resulted in a corner three. So big window there. I just love how poised this guy is. He's like. He's sort of. You're right, Ben. He's like, he's going to be one of these guys if he's not already where like the star player on the other team or guard player on the other team is like, oh, God damn it. Like, not. Not Castle here tonight. This is going to be like 40 minutes of hell on both ends. And then Castle is paired with Wemby. So it allows him to be super aggressive out there when you know, you got that guy roaming behind you and even attacking because he's always like, well, worst case scenario, I'll just chuck it up by the rim and that guy will go slam at home on the alley oop. Like these two, they're going to be. I mean, they're a problem already. Like you said, you have them as a potential championship contender this year, let alone moving forward.

[JD]

Yeah, yeah, it's Funny, because I feel like we talk about fit on the offensive end pretty much exclusively. Like how can you play and pick and roll with Victor Wembanyama and actually is a nice fit. Like Castle's crossover is sick right now. Like he's so quick getting to it. Russell Westbrook is a good comparison because it's all speed and getting downhill, which you know, opens everything up. But Wemby plays outside. But the fit on the defensive end is perfect as well. The way he's able to pressure high up on the ball, move his feet with basically whoever. Now he's quicker than Cade is for sure. But he's also strong enough to take Cade's bumps, which is huge. And then when you know that a guy's taking away the entire lane inside, you're able to play with some risk out there. So I don't know, I thought maybe he won a rookie of the year last year because it's kind of a downdraft. But this guy looks like a multi time all star and part of it is playing with Wemby. But guess what? He smart move by the spurs drafting him to play with Wemby. He's awesome.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, for sure. Let's get to some big picture questions here for you. Ben talked to Pistons here with that game last night. Is there a team you have the most faith in in the Eastern Conference? Maybe it's the Pistons still or is there another team in terms of like ranking the best of the best there that you think could go all the way?

[Ben Gulliver]

I'm not sure if faith is the word I would use for anybody in the Eastern Conference. You know, I am a Western Conference elitist. Coming off that Boston game in LA though, I'll tell you what, those guys play hard. Those guys play together. Trey's point on defensive fit not getting talked about is excellent. Boston has some great defensive pieces, some question marks coming into the season, but man, do they play together defensively. And then, you know, Peyton Pritchard just can't miss, you know, whatever, whatever role is available for me is going to step in. Derrick White, I thought he should have been an all star. I thought he was a snub based on his impact both ends of the court and the fact that their track record in the playoffs is just phenomenal. It made the playoffs like 17 of the last 18 seasons. All these deep Eastern Conference finals runs. I wonder if in the back of our minds we should just be thinking like, yeah, I mean Tatum's been out, but like is this still just their conference, right? Have they do they have enough experience in those moments, enough collective basketball iq, enough organizational stability, the right culture, the right poison, big moments, the right home court advantage at TD Garden? Like, I don't know. I. Boston's probably the team that I would want to play, the least of all these teams in a playoff series, especially if they're getting Tatum back. So I don't know if that qualifies as faith necessarily, because that's a big if in terms of when does he come back? What does he look like? But I'll tell you what, his body language during that Lakers game. And granted, they're beating the Lakers by 20 on Pat Riley statue night, so they're feeling pretty good there, the Celtics are. But Tatum looked real happy, very engaged, very excited. I mean, he looked not like a guy who was just trying to buy time and get through a long rebuild or a long rehab, I should say he looked like a guy who was gearing up.

[J. Skeets]

Which team do you think improved the most at the NBA trade deadline? Is it another team in the Eastern Conference? In the Cavaliers, there's another squad I'm overlooking. Who do you think?

[Ben Gulliver]

Oh, you're a pro. You know how to team me up. Tell me the answer. Yeah, no, it was Cleveland. I mean, they were kind of stuck. You know, Garland and Mobley. To me, that was their young core. And those guys have not developed in the way that I thought they would. Right. You make the Mitchell trade and you're really kind of hitting fast forward. If you're Cleveland, you're feeling like everything's going to come together. You have this dream season last year, but those two guys have just not gotten better enough. Right. Mobley's good, but he's not great. Garland was good, but he was a liability in a lot of situations, including last year's playoffs. I thought it was a savvy trade because you don't want to. You know the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again. I think this exact same thing would have happened if they tried to run an injured Garland into the playoffs this year. They would have just probably gone down in round two and everybody would have been, you know, screaming, what's going on? What's wrong with us? What happened to our amazing 60 plus win season? Right. Harden, not a perfect option, but Manny's still got some good basketball in him. It's. There's a chance they could reach the Finals. The big takeaway from the trade deadline, though, and hopefully people understand this. Now you're asking who improved the most? You know, the trade Deadline used to be about buyers and sellers in terms of the good teams being buyers, bad teams being sellers. That's how it's worked like our entire lives these last couple of years. Because of the second apron. It's not about good teams and bad teams anymore. It's about expensive rosters and less expensive rosters. And almost all the trades that happen were financially motivated first and foremost as opposed to gearing up for the playoffs. That's a little bit frustrating. I like the IO trade for Minnesota. I definitely think they got better. I like the Utah trade for Jaren Jackson Jr. But they didn't get better because they immediately shut him down with the surgery and got themselves, you know, fine for tanking. Right. So I think some of the biggest trades that were happening at the deadline, that we won't really see the fruits until next season. And that's different because the trade deadline used to always be about, let's sprint to these Finals. But it's been a major shift here in the second apron era for the NBA.

[Taz Millis]

Yeah.

[JD]

Yeah. Literally, the Pacers, Wizards and Jazz got the best players.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah.

[JD]

At the deadline, which is just weird to see. Things have completely flipped like the summer now. Free agency isn't that big of a deal. It happens at the trade deadline, and that's what those losing teams were trying to make their moves for. We're talking about faith in the Eastern Conference. How do you square it? The Cavs deciding that the way to get over the hump in the playoffs is James Harden. That is a little odd.

[Taz Millis]

Right?

[JD]

Like, I mean, he's kind of our biggest playoff failure of the past 15 years. He's definitely up there.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, he's definitely notorious. The funniest thing about this, though, is that, you know, I kind of look back and I've been a James Harden defender at times because I do feel like people pile on. You can't deny some of the playoff shortcomings. I'm not trying to do that. I just saying, hey, let's give him credit for when he does play well. But one of the interesting trends of his career is he's been paired a lot with guys who haven't been able to get it done in the biggest moments when he was their teammates. Right. So you go to Brooklyn. Kyrie gets injured back in Houston, Chris Paul gets injured, he goes to Philly. Joel Embiid was honestly worse than Harden was in the playoff moments. You go to the Clippers. Kawhi had some no shows and some injuries, and Paul George wasn't necessarily up to snuff you know, alongside James Harden. And now he goes to Cleveland, where Donovan Mitchell has never made the conference finals. Right. And so, like, no matter where Harden goes, he's always paired with another star who also has playoff questions. And so one of them is going to be the scapegoat. I think it's going to be one of these things where they're both pointing at each other by the time it's over. No, it's Mitchell's fault. No, it's Harden's fault. But I think there could be some blame to go around there with that group because ultimately you're seeing so many of these big wings and, you know, big point forwards kind of driving this playoff basketball. The interchangeability aspect, the versatility aspect. And they're just built differently, right? Like, they've got guards, they've got bigs, they don't really have that wing position, you know, handled at a high level. It's going to make for some really, you know, challenging matchup issues for that team. I like the fit, though. Like, I definitely think they got better. Conference finals. Finals. It's not impossible for that Cleveland team, but to me, it does kind of feel like a ticking time bomb, and not just because James is there.

[J. Skeets]

By the way, this is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Ben Gulliver]

This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[JD]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping.

[Taz Millis]

Right.

[Ben Gulliver]

Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity.

[J. Skeets]

And have you ever asked yourself, what if my WI fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity is like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI Fi.

[Ben Gulliver]

It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity.

[J. Skeets]

Imagine that.

[JD]

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[J. Skeets]

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[Ben Gulliver]

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support and guidance you can count on all year long. Get started today @loseweightnow.co. individual results may vary. Visit loseweightnow.co and get started today. That's loseweightnow.co. when we were talking about WEMBY, you said that was your preseason pick to win MVP. So like us, you make a lot of preseason predictions. Was there a team you just were completely wrong about from one side to the other? You thought were going to be amazing and have failed or obviously you thought were going to stink and have sort of impressed you.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, I mean, obvious kind of on both sides. But Orlando, you know, I was pretty high on after the Bain move and boy, nope, Paolo is probably the number one recipient of slander across basketball Twitter this year. Possibly.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Ben Gulliver]

Not where you want to be, especially when you're a former number one pick. You know, it's still pretty young, so I didn't necessarily see all that coming. And I'm a really big France guy and it just doesn't feel like, you know, maybe we've gotten peak France either. So it's not all Paulo's fault. And I do feel like Paulo takes most of the heat for that group.

[Taz Millis]

Right.

[Ben Gulliver]

I thought they were going to be really good though, and, you know, like 50 plus wins and sailing and just really hasn't been the case. The other one, though is I was all in on okc70 plus wins. I did a big story about it when they were 24 1. I was, you know, going through history trying to compare them defensively to all these other teams. And, you know, of course, you can't always predict the injury bug. And maybe I should have because they had such a long and grueling playoffs last year and they took last regular season really seriously, too. You know, there wasn't a lot of nights off for them last year, but it feels like it's all really caught up with them. And doesn't that 70, 74 win talk feel like an awful long time ago at this point, even though we're. We're still in February, but, man, I was pumping that thing as recently as November and boy, it went poof pretty quick.

[J. Skeets]

Do you have a favorite solution, Ben, to fixing tanking, which has been obviously, you know, in the media here over the last couple weeks. A whole lot of tanking talk, and everybody's got an idea. Do you have one where you're like, yeah, let's try that. Or that. Or even a drastic one where you're like, you know what? That's so crazy. Let's give it a go.

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, I love the J. Skeets take on tanking. The best fix for tanking is to never talk about it. Revolutionary podcasting, where. And I can't believe you're trying to run back the tanking talk skates. You're violating your own principle here.

[J. Skeets]

I think we're overreacting. I do.

[Ben Gulliver]

But it was. It was a great take. Look, I think a lot of the taking stuff is being driven by the gambling implications, right? Like, everyone's like, what's changed last year to this year? Like, the Raptors shut down Scotty Barnes late in games, but now Utah is getting fined for doing the same thing. Well, what happened was Chauncey Phillips and Terry Rozier got arrested. That's what happened. Right? I mean, you cannot play games late in the season with lineups. Are guys going to be in or out with not adhering to the NBA's injury, like, reporting protocols, because it just creates too much opportunity for exposure for bad actors to get their hands on information. And then all of a sudden, the NBA games are not a fair gambling exercise for everybody who's out there. They have to have the appearance of propriety here so that the entire business machine of sports gambling goes along. And so I think that's a big factor in terms of why Adam Silver, you know, felt the need to kind of step in here. Like, like, you can't have this unusual erratic stuff with guys in and out of lineups because, you know, it just creates a lot of problems long term in terms of solutions for tanking. I mean, I, I've read them all. I think flattening the lottery odds actually kind of shot themselves in the foot a little bit. I would give better odds to the teams who are really bad. And then I would also consider that rule. They're talking about not allowing a team to pick in the top four multiple years in a row. I think they're really trying to go hard for parity, and I don't love that either. I love dynasties. You know, that's my favorite aspect of the NBA. But they're going down this parody route very hard. And so it does kind of feel like, well, you know, San Antonio, do they even really need Harper to be a championship contender? No. Could somebody like Utah or Washington use Harper a little bit more and we'd flatten the talent out and everybody would benefit. I think that there's an argument there. So I think those would probably be my. My preferred solutions. But people get way, way too deep into this, you know, and there's so much talk about the 10 worst teams in the league. You got a championship race right now with 10 great teams who all have a shot to some degree. And unfortunately, it's a huge distraction. So I, I kind of wonder, should Adam Silver take your advice here and just talk about it less, you know, and, you know, just because he put a huge microscope on it for All Star Weekend, it's all anybody talked about. It's like, wait a minute. This is what we've got going. It just looks bad for the entire league. I don't know, maybe they should keep

[JD]

the schedule open for like the last third of the season so we can just have like the Grizzlies and the Kings. You have to play each other every single night. Somebody's going to win. And if you care about those teams, you can watch it. But the rest of us, we'll stick to our 20 teams that are going to make the postseason here. Adam Silver's changed a lot of things, Ben, in his time from the flattening of the lottery odds to the play in tournament. But one thing that you saw firsthand was NBA coaches started wearing basically warmups during the bubble and have continued to wear warmups. Pat Riley said he thinks people should go back to suits. Do you agree?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, so I don't get why media guys wear suits if they're not on television to games, if the coaches are wearing sweatsuits. Right. Question. I've been a quarter zip guy basically my whole run. You know, I used to wear, you know, suits for like the first game of the year or maybe suits at the finals. But I know the quarter zip trend really took off on TikTok a couple months ago. Those guys owe me royalty. Okay. I've been doing quarter zips way before they thought it was cool. And actually I was doing quarter zips when it wasn't cool.

[J. Skeets]

Right.

[Taz Millis]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah. Even if it has become cool. So keep it together, Trey, now.

[JD]

No, you're looking good at your quarter zip. I'm Gulliver inspired today as well.

[Ben Gulliver]

You look, you look wonderful. So, yeah, I think the coaches could step it up. I love Pat Riley's old school philosophy, and I agree with him that often, you know, leaders look great. You know, I think that's a part of the deal. You want to command respect. And, you know, sometimes you see these coaches come out now pregame too, before they even get into the official group, and they're wearing like super baggy sweatsuits. I mean, they could just be like a guy, you know, in the 300 level. And I'm looking around saying there's only 30 of these jobs. Is this really what it's come to? But I know they, they crunch a lot of tape, you know, not a lot of sleep. So they probably feel good just being in the sweatsuits all day long. But I think it would be better for the league if they all go back to suits, don't you?

[JD]

Oh, 100%. It's hard to imagine like a Mark Daignalt statue of him squinting, wearing his zipped up thunder. You know, Pat Riley looked very cool with his.

[Ben Gulliver]

In his statue.

[JD]

So they got to change for sure.

[Ben Gulliver]

And think about it. I mean, if you're an NBA coach, you're getting like a budget for your clothing, right? It's probably a pretty healthy budget. Why not use it? You know, that feels like, I mean, if you guys got budgets, you know, so you could wear a different suit every single day on the show. You're telling me you're not down at some, you know, haberdashery, downtown Atlanta trying to get, you know, I mean, you're definitely there, right? So it just feels like a wasted opportunity all around.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, look, we're. We're calling a G league game tonight. We haven't talked amongst ourselves yet, but all quarters. How suited and booted are we getting tonight or. Yeah, we're going casual. Yeah, great look. It'd be a great look.

[Taz Millis]

We're talking just about head coaches, right? Because I don't think the assistant coaches are getting a budget. I'm just. But. But all coaches are doing different forms of matching. The San Antonio spurs all have Air Jordan ones on their feet from Mitch Johnson, every single one. So maybe there's a budget.

[J. Skeets]

Mitch, you like that?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, I, I like the idea of the unity from the coaching staff. You know, I can also see, like, hey, the head coach does have have to dress up. Everybody else kind of looks the same. The Lakers actually do something similar. I noticed the Celtics did something similar, too. I don't know if they were all matching sneakers as well, but it was, you know, a very uniform look. I like the togetherness. You know, it sets a good tone. It also kind of helps the assistant coaches stay in the background if you're watching on tv, Right. Because it's just sort of like one. One, like monochromatic look there from the bench. But think about how many times they cut to the solo shots of the head coach during a game. Arguing a review call, talking to the point guard, yelling out defensive coverages. You don't want them in that, you know, Pat Riley, Armani for those moments. Come on, let's do it.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, even, like, the more heated they get, they're getting pissed with the officials. Like, you know, a tie can get unloosened, a jacket can come off. Like, what can you do with the quarter?

[Taz Millis]

Zip.

[J. Skeets]

Just unzip it a little bit more like, oh, it's getting tight.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, that's it. You'll look super awkward.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't come off easy, that's for sure.

[JD]

I also love the idea of coaches go back to suits, but it's only the head coach. Say it's Kenny Atkinson. He gets tossed from the game. He's got to hand his jacket down to the guy who steps up for the last quarter of the game or whatever.

[J. Skeets]

The quarter zip are like this casual attire that they wear. It's like gotta be one or the other is my point. I think it's like either go suits, like Pat Riley saying, go back to that, the very professional looking suit, or go all the way the other way. Like a baseball manager. And like Bickerstaff has to be in a jersey like his team, like a baseball manager in the dugout. You have to wear the team outfit, don't you?

[Taz Millis]

You? Yeah, they can't wear jackets in general. They cover their. Their.

[J. Skeets]

But they're wearing a jers.

[Taz Millis]

A uniform and pants. Yeah, yeah. You got, you got to be. You got to have your cleats on so you can go kick some dirt out on the empire.

[J. Skeets]

I want the NBA coaches then in full outfit with all these city edition jerseys. Ben. That's the only other option we can do. I.

[Ben Gulliver]

It sounds great. I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think, like, is there anybody else? Like, how far do we take it? Do you want staff members? There's trainers, there's security guards. I mean, how coordinated and how deep down the bench should the. The outfit looks be going? If they're really trying to maximize interest here, Concession stands.

[J. Skeets]

I want everybody in the same outfit for sure. One other thing before we let you go, because this is sort of like one of your beats and that is the Olympics as I addressed. You've been to a couple of them. Kevin Durant yesterday said he plans to play in the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles. 2028. One of those years. That sounds like 40 years away to me still, but. But two years it'll be here. What was your reaction to KD? He had a lot more to say too. I'm sure you read that, Ben, but his thoughts on wanting to play again. Are you surprised at all?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, you know, watching him in the Olympics, he saved the team in Tokyo and didn't really get as much credit for that because it wasn't as talked about. There was no fans and it was sort of like a bubble Olympics. But man, was he good during that Tokyo run. His commitment to that program has been incredible for a really long time. I saw that he said he Wanted to earn the spot. He wanted to still be playing at a high level. I think he still is, you know, individually this year. I mean, Houston's been a little disappointing, but he's still definitely been a high, high level player, an easy all star selection. So I think that he has a really good case just as a pure basketball player to make it. But I also feel like if anybody was going to be deserving of the honorary, old guy gets a spot on the roster, it's Kevin Durant, based on what he's done. And you look at some of these young players who may or may not want to play on USA Basketball, they had a problem, you know, kind of, you know, attracting players there for a while. I think, you know, having him there as the standard of a guy who was fully committed as what it could be, you know, as cool of an experience as it can be to have these guys involved. You know, you could be like, Kevin Durant is the message to somebody like Cooper flag. You know, come and represent your country four, five, six times, you know, because we could use you. I think it's a great message. So would be saving him a spot no matter what. You know, you're not going to win or lose the gold medal based on if Kevin Durant's on the roster and, you know, nobody's earned it more than he has.

[JD]

Yeah, that's exactly right. He's our best Olympic player ever. Probably the best Olympic basketball player, period, and will fit on any team. So assuming he's still good at 40, which I assume he will be, sign him up. But I do love the two things this guy loves are playing basketball and being on Twitter. And he's not on Twitter very much right now, but he is playing basketball, and I hope he's there for Team usa. I wonder if he would be like, their flag bearer. I know LeBron was the guy in Paris. You would think it would be a big name here in la. So I wonder.

[Ben Gulliver]

It's a real dichotomy. Trades like, you know, the. The Twitter version hasn't been super cool lately, but the USA Basketball version is the coolest version of Kevin Durant by far. And it's going to get left out of all the retrospectives, but it should.

[J. Skeets]

I. I thought this was perfectly timed here by Kevin Durant with all of the Twitter burner accounts and all the talk around that for him to come out and, like, I don't know, suddenly start talking about the 2028 Olympics. And like, I didn't say I wasn't playing Lebron's not playing. Curry's probably not playing, but I didn't say I wasn't. And he had a lot more to say. And we can get into that later this week.

[Taz Millis]

And firing all of the boardroom's employees. All his employees, too.

[J. Skeets]

Yes, yes, yes. Oh, yes.

[Taz Millis]

That's kind of good.

[Ben Gulliver]

Getting swept under the road.

[J. Skeets]

Before we let you go, Ben, any new hot, new LEGO sets dropping that we should be aware of?

[Ben Gulliver]

You know, I took it back even further, guys. This Christmas, I didn't go lego. I feel like. Not that LEGO is done. Not that LEGO has become too mainstream. None of that. But I wanted to go a little weirder, so I bought myself a model train, old school. Now, here's the thing with the model trains, and actually, you'll be proud because it's a Canadian Pacific model train. I got all these different. You know, I'm hauling lumber. You know, I'm going across that great Canadian bounty.

[Taz Millis]

You paying tariffs on this?

[Ben Gulliver]

Well, I'll tell you what. Model train is not a cheap hobby. I will say. No. It's not the attention to detail. The model trains are incredible. And it's funny because they're one of these hobbies where they're like, we should probably Update for the 21st century. So, like, we're going to come in with, like, Bluetooth activity and you can run it from your phone. And as soon as they started saying that to me at the store, I was like, no, I'm going the other way. I want the lowest tech one. I have this, like, giant handheld, like, thing that looks like it could run like a spacecraft. Like, I could go to Mars. That's how I control it. You know, I got the lights button, I got a horn. I mean, it's just awesome. I even got myself a hat.

[J. Skeets]

I was just gonna ask you that.

[Ben Gulliver]

No way. Yeah. Like I said, man. Hey, quarter zip and a train conductor hat. What more do you need? This is the peak of fashion. Okay. No, but. But, you know, my grandpa had one and, you know, back to some more basement talk. But he used to run around his basement, and it just brought back some good memories of childhood. You know, childhood Christmases, going to see theirs. And it's so personalizable, right? Like, you can. There's so many different options. You can make it exactly how you want it, which is pretty fun, too. And so I was inspired to get the Canadian Pacific train, actually, because I went up near Banff. You know, Morantz Curve? It's a famous Canadian landmark. They got it on the Canadian currency. I was at. And they have a train kind of going around Morantz Curb on Canada's money. I stood right at that spot, waited for a train to come, took a picture just the same as the the Canadian currency. And then I found that train online. And that's my model train. So sorry to Lego. You know I'm cheating on you briefly. Yeah, it's a little fling here, but highly recommended. So like, if you're a real dork listening to this, I mean like a tier one dork, like you've been in on this entire episode. You were cool with the magnet talk. You weren't lost. You were just locked in. Go for the model train if you don't have one.

[J. Skeets]

What scale and gauge are we talking?

[Ben Gulliver]

Oh, I'm a home man. They have lots of different gauges. But it is fun to tell people you're a home.

[J. Skeets]

Perfect way to end this interview. Ben Gulliver, Train Homan. Ben, appreciate you jumping on very early your time there on the West Coast. That link to your new substack in the show notes, everybody go click and subscribe and look, let's have you back. Now that you're basically unemployed, you can just come on any day now, can't you?

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah, yeah. I'll be up tomorrow morning whether you guys have. I'll be talking into this screen. But hey, in all seriousness, you know I am known for the greatest ability as availability, one of my slogans. And nobody embodies that better than you guys. You guys do. My respect level for your consistency is just off the charts. I hope nobody takes it for granted how long you guys have been doing this at a high level. Braun gets all this love. Give me a break. Come on. It's about these three guys right here. And JD don't let me forget JD

[JD]

As a whole man. He knows that somebody's got to make the trains run on time.

[J. Skeets]

That's right, Ben, appreciate you as always, buddy. We'll talk to you soon. Hit the like button. Subscribe for Ben Gulliver if you haven't already. We gotta take a quick break. When we come back, pick them. Whoa, boy. All the staples here on no Dunks. Ever wanted to go to the NBA Finals? Well, now's your chance, courtesy of FanDuel. All you have to do is use your profit boost on an NBA future and you'll be entered for a shot to win an NBA Finals trip for two. I heard Toronto in June is beautiful. Beautiful. That'd be a nice trip, wouldn't it? NBA futures let you lock in your pick for who you think will go all the way, whether it's a team to win the NBA championship or a conference title. Just visit FanDuel.com to get started. Play your game with FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. All right. That was fantastic. Hour or so there with Ben Gulliver. So not much else to say about last night. We can touch on maybe the Rockets game when we get to Whoa boy. Which is where we're at right now. And it's sponsored by no dunks fam. Brahm Laiu Layu. Probably Brahm or Bram either. I'm not sure I'd say Bram Liu. His sister Olivia just graduated high school. Your big bro and your family are so unbelievably proud of you and we're excited to see the next chapter of your life. So there you go. That's your Woe boy sponsor. And it goes to jabotic. Jabari Smith Jr. Scored a game high 31 points in the Rockets blowout win over the jazz. Smith Jr. Shot 12, 17 from the field, 6 of 11 from deep, nine boards, three steals, three blocks in 33 minutes. I mean, Wemby had a great game, filled the box score, but Jabari Smith Jr. Coming through there. Really gross moment in this game or unfortunate moment. Vince Williams Jr. Another junior in this one appeared to have suffered a major injury after getting sort of bumped cleared out by Tari Eason as they were coming up the floor.

[Ben Gulliver]

It.

[J. Skeets]

We. We are not even. We're not showing you the clip because I don't know if you saw it. I, I was.

[Taz Millis]

He left the arena on crutches, which is a better sign than what could have been a worse scenario.

[J. Skeets]

I just know your leg is not supposed to bend that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Atari Easton apparently did seek him out or the. The team out immediately. Like it was like, I mean, seemed accidental. I don't think he was trying to hurt the guy.

[JD]

He wasn't trying to hurt him. He was trying to knock him off him. His line for sure, which happens in every unnecessary play. But not a dirty play, I didn't think. There's also like a moment you can see Keante George come up and start chatting with Tar Eason. And just from Eason's reaction, you can tell that George is relaying the info like this guy is seriously hurt. And yeah, really bad timing for Vince Williams Jr. I think he's got a team option for next year. This seems to be like it'll be a serious injury. So hopefully, you know, hopefully he's able to recover and still make some money

[Taz Millis]

going forward because he was part of that deal. And trading, getting traded from Memphis, they wanted him. Yeah, it sort of made sense to be put around County, George Lyon, Markin and. And Jaren Jackson Jr. So hopefully he does get back.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, it's. If you're easily queasy, do not watch that clip. One of those where the leg just goes the way you don't want to see it go. People are comparing it to. Remember when Giannis had that crazy injury in the finals and came back and somehow played and played him miraculously and they conference finals. Yeah, it sort of bends similarly. So maybe. Hopefully it's good like that. But that does not look good. That feels like he could be done for the season, but we'll find out. Tonight's pick Em Tass. Where we going?

[Taz Millis]

Yeah, we got a good Tuesday night in the NBA. We got 11 games and so I saw a couple goodies. Knicks Cavs.

[JD]

Well, I'll skip that one.

[Taz Millis]

Washington Hawks. Are we gonna see Trae Young play

[J. Skeets]

the Hawks for the first time?

[Taz Millis]

No, that's not happening. He's out. So I went with just one. Close to home, the Toronto Raptors hosting okc. Tough pick because OKC definitely looks good coming out of the All Star break without Shay and without Jalen Williams here. The Raptors are getting Scotty Barnes back. Didn't have him in his first game, but he will be here. Is he rusty? Has he not played in long enough? Well, I'm fine taking him to. Just to give us a bit of a race here because you guys are both at six and six. I'm at seven and five. We got four nights remaining, so.

[J. Skeets]

Nice race, though.

[Taz Millis]

If you guys take this one. We're all tied up with three nights left.

[JD]

Exciting.

[J. Skeets]

That'll be fun. Raptors favorites here. Little surprising. I mean, it's basically a pickup, but I was a little shocked by that.

[JD]

Yeah. Hopefully Cheddar Cheese plays. Yes. He's the only one that's like, really? Will he actually, actually play tonight? To me, because, you know, Caruso likely out. AJ Mitchell out.

[Taz Millis]

Shea out.

[J. Skeets]

Jaylen Williams out.

[Taz Millis]

Does he go by Cheddar Cheese?

[JD]

I've heard of, like, three. People call him Cheddar Cheese. I definitely call him Abe Lincoln.

[Taz Millis]

Right.

[JD]

Vampire Slayer.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, I went. I went OKC because the Raptors have struggled against good teams this year. But then this is a weird one because all the main guys are not playing for okc. But they still are a good team, as we just saw in the win against Cavs, So it's tough here. And I think. I think the spurs are in Toronto tomorrow night, I want to say. And then I think, okay, so he might have a big game coming up. It could be a trap game is. Maybe you're looking at it like that.

[Taz Millis]

But yeah, the double header on. On Peacock tonight is Nick's Cavs and Wolves Blazers. And I. And I do want to say as. As Ben mentioned, not as big a game with the Peacock cast with Grady Hummel and Austin Rivers, but I thought they were really solid last night. And. And Austin River's making jokes like. Like our man Ben Gallbert was making. He said when somebody was getting handsy, getting physical, he said usually you gotta go on a couple dates before you get all handsy. Some good ones.

[Ben Gulliver]

Yeah.

[Taz Millis]

Pushing the boundaries. He's pushing the batteries a little bit. Commenting on the bling behind him in the crowd, you know, well done.

[JD]

I thought he calls a game like he's on a podcast.

[J. Skeets]

Yes. Yeah, for sure.

[JD]

Jalen Durham and shorts.

[J. Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taz Millis]

And it's a nice in comparison for me, like, Hummel's a series analyst. You know, I like. I like the. The difference.

[J. Skeets]

I just like how, like, they were into the game. They're like, this is awesome.

[Taz Millis]

Absolutely.

[J. Skeets]

That's why they were in the house here, all three of us.

[Taz Millis]

More importantly than the style was. Yeah.

[J. Skeets]

They're just bringing it really some news. In one of the games tonight, Pelicans guard Dejante Murray is set to return, spending more than a year rehabilitating a ruptured right. Achilles tendon. So he's supposed to be back for the Pelosi tonight. So that's something to watch in that one a little bit later on. But yeah. OKC raps me and Trey. Excuse me. Yeah, me and Trey have the Thunder, you have the wraps. That's right. I already said it when we were talking to Ben. We do have a College Park Skyhawks game tonight. It's at 7 o' clock in College Park Gateway Center. Come on out if you're in the area. Cheap tickets, great time. I mean, it's. It's fun to ask for. Well, with these guys competing and the Raptors are good. Skyhawks have had a bit of a down year, but they do score a lot of points, so we'll see how many Ray J. Dennis can go for tonight. Asa Newell's gonna play, I think, for the Skyhawks tonight. Sort of good timing for us coming back or being reassigned to the G League team from the main hawks team. So 7 o' clock tonight. That link I also shared in the show notes for you to watch it online and hear us on the broadcasts. So check that out at 7 o' clock tonight. Otherwise back tomorrow. Huge thanks to Bengal for jumping on and talking to us this morning. Till then Clipper Bros. You heard it here first.

[Ben Gulliver]

Have a great time. Turn up.

[J. Skeets]

Love you guys. Awesome.

[Taz Millis]

Thanks for joining us. And remember if you don't want to watch 11 NBA games, you can watch a G League game that we will be on. Also, I wanted to give some credit for the Magnet magnate. That great nickname was brought to us by Fullmetal HT on the Stream team so I wanted to shout that out.

[J. Skeets]

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