← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Loading summary
Transcript90 lines
- [00:02]
Shopify Ad
This episode of the Totally Football show is brought to you by Shopify. When we're kids, we dream of being anything. A footballer, an astronaut, an international man, a mystery. But as we get older, reality kicks in and dreams change and we focus on how to take our skills and ideas and turn them into something tangible, like owning your own business. And for that, you'll need a website, a payment system, a logo, and a way to advertise to new customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that's where Shopify comes in. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. When it comes to websites, Shopify's got beautiful ready to go templates to match your brand style. And you can amplify that brand with Shopify's easy to run email and social media campaigns. Shopify's AI tools are created for commerce and can help you with tasks like generating discount codes, writing product descriptions and enhancing product images. And whenever you get stuck, Shopify's award winning 247 customer support is always there. So turn those dreams into sales and get the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com totally. That's shopify.com totally all in lowercase one last time. Shopify.com totally.
- [01:21]
Wayfair Ad
Summer is almost here and there's no better place to go for outside furniture than Wayfair. Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor essentials will help you make your outdoor space more comfortable, functional and most importantly, more you. Get your outdoor space ready today so you can enjoy it all season long. When you have kids, they love to be outside, so you gotta be out there to watch them. From Wayfair, you can have outdoor sofas, maybe a set of chairs, a gazebo, some umbrellas because it's really hot down here in the South. No matter the need, Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style and every home. No matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. Free and easy delivery even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for patio furniture. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more. Shipped free. Find all your outdoor must haves from seating to pool, lounges to trampolines all in one convenient place. Shop a huge selection of outdoor furniture online this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [02:51]
Liquid IV Ad
Love looks different for everyone, especially when it comes to all the ways you treat and celebrate yourself. I'm a big hammock head. Sunshine a hammock, A paperback western. That's my kind of everyday indulgence. And you can gift yourself the everyday indulgence of extraordinary hydration with Liquid IV powered by LIV hydra science. Visit liquidiv.com to fall in love with flavors like the zesty new hydration Multiplier Sugar free Raspberry Lemon Aid and use code nodunks to save 20% off your first order. Liquid IV is easy and convenient. You just tear, pour and enjoy. It's my go to when I'm getting a pump in or handing out buckets, but it's great for staying hydrated during long days, enjoying the outdoors or any other time you need some hydration in your body. Liquid IV offers so many true to fruit flavors, whether they be hydration multipliers like acai berry, lemon, lime and pina colada, or sugar free like raspberry lemonade, white peach and rainbow sherbet. The flavors are always true to fruit, break the mold and your own ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone because Liquid IV is powered by LIV Hydroscience, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You're getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at Liquid IV when you go to LiquidIV.com and use code no Dunks at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code no Dunks@liquidiv.com.
- [04:57]
Nina
What'S up everybody? Before we get into today's episode, just a quick disclaimer. This episode was recorded on Friday, October 25th before the news broke of the Las Vegas Aces parting ways with their gm Natalie Williams and the Indiana Fever parting ways with their head coach Kristi Sides. Of course, these are major moves that we will break down on this episode, but for now just be mindful of the discourse that we're about to have regarding the 12 teams in the WNBA and some outlying questions they have this offseason. Now, enjoy the show. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show, where we are here to talk all things women's hoops. Today, we are finally putting a nice bow on the WNBA season. I've got Ben Pickman and Sabrina Merchant here with me to go through pressing questions for each team. But here's my favorite part. We're gonna do it from the perspective of Ben Pickman. I always, always want to know what questions are swirling around in his brain as he's watching these teams all the way down to the Liberty winning the championship this year. Of course, they're about to run it back next year. And we have to figure out what do each of these teams need to do, need to focus on, need to change, need to keep the same in order to have a better chance to be at the top of the throne next season. So, Ben, I'm going to be in the audience here and allow myself. Sabrina, we're going to see if we can help you with some of the questions that you guys have with this team. Take it away with your first question.
- [06:50]
Sabrina
Thanks, Nina. So, yeah, we're going in basically the order that Sabrina mapped out in her way too early power rankings. So I would recommend checking that story out on the site, too. And New York comes in as the number one team entering the off season, not surprisingly. I guess my question for them is what lessons do they take away and do they actually learn from this title? Because the New York Liberty, yes, they won their first championship in 28 years, first ever in franchise history, first in the city in, you know, four or five decades. But they maybe were one foul call away from not winning that championship. And, you know, in some moments, Sabrina Ionescu struggled in the finals, you know, the end of the finals. Brianna Stewart didn't play her best offensive game to close out the finals. They had, you know, great performances from the bench. And I was at city Hall. I was at the championship parade. They won the ring. You can't take that away from them. But it almost didn't happen. And we know with the Aces, like, listen to their exit interviews. Becky Hammond talks about, like, you know, when you win, there's not really an exit interview. It's more like an exit celebration. But if New York wants to repeat, like, they're now going to be hunted, and I think they're gonna need to go up a level. So I'm just curious what they take away.
- [08:08]
Ben
So I think I've Been pretty clear that I wasn't super impressed with the way the Liberty won the title again. Banners hang forever. Can't take away the ring. They are the 2024 WNBA champions now and forever. But I do think that some of their execution issues continue to, you know, rear their head in the finals. And it was something we saw in the finals in 2023. It came up again in 24. And I'm not really sure how you address that, because you're not changing the core of your team. Sabrina Escu, John Quell Jones, Brandon Stewart. That's the team that's coming back. Sadie Brondello, I assume, is the coach that's coming back. Like, you don't fire a head coach after winning a championship. It's just. It's not done right. You know, they get the chance to walk away, but you don't fire them. So I do wonder, like, how you address that particular situation, because the rotation itself can't. Can't change that much, right? Like, you just need Sabrina and Stewie to be better, right? Like, maybe do you give more responsibility to Leonie Fibich? Do you assume that if Beni Jelaney Hamilton is healthier at this point next season that she'll be handling more playmaking and then you get to put sab in that off ball, you know, role, and maybe that clears things up. But I don't know. I kind of just think, like, the players have to get better. Like, is that reductive? Like, they just. They just need to be better.
- [09:23]
Nina
The funny thing is, I absolutely agree with you. There's not much you can do other than put Stewie in the and Sabrina in the gym and keep putting buzzer beater situations on the clock for them to keep running through. The biggest lesson I think Sandy Brandello has is go big or go home. Like, quite literally go big and. And utilize that big lineup a little bit earlier. It's crazy to think that they ended up winning this game with a lineup they'd never used during the regular season. That's probably the only lesson utilized. Leonie Fibich earlier in the year, but they used her as well as you possibly could throughout the playoffs, and she made the big shots when she should. So, yeah, Stewie, Sabrina, get in the gym for those big moments a little bit, but other than that, not a ton of team lessons, in my opinion.
- [10:13]
Sabrina
Yeah, it's just going to be really interesting. Like, they talked all year about learning from the wound that they had last year. And John Paul Jones told you, Sabrina, like, if they don't lose the 2023 title to the Aces. They probably don't make it or win this one. So now that they have won, like, what happens from there from like a mental approach standpoint? Something to watch. Okay, Number two, Minnesota Links. Obviously the team that came up as a runner up in the finals, we should say we're only going to do the 12 teams that participated in the league this year. The Valkyries will have some of their own episodes going forward. But this is a kind of Valkyries adjacent question. It is like, what are the Minnesota Links do with some of their young players? It is a roster that is very, very deep. You know, depth, team cohesion was integral in them getting this far. But in the finals we saw Dorker Yuhas, but not till the end of the series. We didn't see Elisa Peely and when it mattered. And Diamond Miller when it mattered. And these were high draft picks, players that they are investing in and in theory will be important to the Lynx's future. And it's very unlikely that all three of those players get protected. And so the Lynx, to me, are the most interesting team entering the expansion draft. And I'm just curious and just wondering, what are they going to do, who are they going to protect and what does the future look like for that trio in particular?
- [11:41]
Ben
So the Lynx, I would agree with you, are the most interesting team in the expansion draft because I think it is one. Like, what do you prioritize now versus, you know, do you want to just retain the core that got you to the championship in 2024? Or are you thinking, hey, Diamond Miller was the number two pick two years ago and she has a lot of potential, could be, you know, a face of this franchise alongside Nafisa Collier for years to come, but is she going to help us win in 2025? It's like the most clear dichotomy of how do we make these decisions? Like, what do you want to prioritize? Even if you protect diamond now, does that mean you'll protect her again when Portland and Toronto come and knock in in 2026? Like, it's. It's just such a strange team building situation. Have to, you know, undergo the more time we spent around Minnesota during the finals. I think I've come onto the side of they want to win a championship immediately and Diamond Miller did not factor into their planning for that at all in 2024. So I would imagine that they protect the starting lineup plus Dorca Juhas, like, that's where I would land if I were the Minnesota Lynx. And you just sort of ride on the fact that, like, Natisha Heidemann's an unrestricted free agent. Sure, Golden State could take her, but are you going to core Natisha Heideman and offer a supermax contract? Probably not. You know, so I think if I were Claire dewelious and Sheryl Reeve right now, like, where I would land is let's keep the band that got us here that was, you know, one call away from winning a WNBA championship. I think they can do it again. I think you would assume that the chemistry, the cohesion gets better just based on how Minnesota played over the course of the season. Right. Like, they got better after the Olympic break. They were better in the playoffs. Yeah. And just let the Valkyries get really excited about all these young prospects that could be available.
- [13:36]
Nina
I'm with you. I think they keep Dorca Juhas particularly because of size. That's a value in this w right now. When you think about the Asia Wilsons, the Brianna Stewarts, like, who are these big players that you're going to have to match up against? And Nafisa Collier can't do it all on her own. So I definitely think that they keep Dorca from that perspective. I also think, you know, Alyssa Peely and Diamond Miller. Diamond Miller had injuries this year. Right. So she wasn't at her full usage. Right. For Minnesota Links. But even with Alyssa Peely, I didn't feel like she fit into their scheme as naturally. I feel like she would come into games, have hot, streaky nights where she could put up 20 points, she could put up a lot of threes, she could do a lot of things inside and then completely fall out of their usage the next game. With that said, I'm kind of like, if you're going to focus on the championship core and not really focus on developing this young talent within that championship core, go ahead and allow her to go somewhere where she can be developed. And when you think about Natalie Nakase, like, that's what she's known for.
- [14:40]
Sabrina
Yeah. I mean, look, I think the moral is that there are a lot of teams who view themselves as competitors and are chasing a title and think that they can be top four seeds and that they can win and do it in the near future. And so, like, some teams inevitably are going to drop and Minnesota is going to have to figure out, like, from their perspective how they don't. So one of those teams that is chasing and the number three team on your list, Sabrina, for way too early power rankings, they are now chasing not no longer having been chased, it is the Las Vegas Aces, formerly the two time defending champions, now looking to get back in the winner's circle. My number one question, frankly is, what is Asia Wilson's signature shoe gonna look like? And we shall learn that, I believe, in the spring. And, you know, that should be pretty cool. And is she gonna show up at unrivaled games to support her teammates? But I guess my real big question more seriously relates to her teammates, and it is, what are the Las Vegas Aces going to do with their bench and the rest of their roster? Right. Las Vegas in the second half. Their core four, Jackie Young, Chelsea Gray, Kelsey Plum, asia Wilson, played 210 minutes together, had a plus five net rating. They're four Olympians. We know what the pedigree is, we know what the resume is for them. But the rest of the roster, like, there are clearly some holes, some deficiencies, and, you know, I struggle to just like, ascribe theories to how playoffs go, but I do think we learned from New York and Minnesota about the importance of depth, right? Look at those two rosters. Niara Sabley stepping up. Benij Elaney Hamilton stepping up. Leonie Fibish stepping up. Minnesota. We could go down seven, eight names, right? Like, depth was so important in their run and the Aces didn't have the roster depth this year and it came back to bite them. So question for them, what does their bench look like? How do they build out the rest of this roster?
- [16:30]
Ben
Yeah, the depth did not matter for the Aces in 20, 22 and 23 because their core four was just that good. Right? Like we're talking about Jackie Young, peak of her powers, Kelsey Plum, you know, first team, all wnba in one of those seasons. Asia Wilson obviously was Asia Wilson again, but Chelsea Gray was a very muted version of herself coming off of the foot injury. I'm not even sure the depth matters as much as just making sure that those four are back to guns blazing, you know, the terrifying quartet that they were in 2022 and 2023. Because to me, like, that's something you can control more than who's going to join the Las Vegas Aces and free agency. That being said, you know, you look at the list and Natasha Howard feels like she'd be an awesome fit in Las Vegas, you know, if she wanted to come and probably take a little bit of a discount, but she's, you know, on the other side of 30. That's something you'd consider, I think, especially having suffered through a nine win season in Dallas this past Year. But, yeah, I think for the Aces, it's not so much. Are we going to figure out the step situation? Because I think Kate Martin, Megan GustaFson in year two of that system, like Becky Hammond, is very clear that what they run is very specific and it takes people some time to learn what they're doing. And when you're a rookie, when you're, you know, someone who's been a journey woman and just figuring out where you stand in the WNBA pecking order like Megan Gustafson, I think it just takes some time. So I would expect them to both get better, but really, it's just, can Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young both shoot 40% on threes for a full season? Like, can Chelsea Gray be one of the top three point guards in the world again? Like, that's what it comes down to for me.
- [18:06]
Nina
I don't know if that's enough anymore. I think they need another. They need a threat. Keya Stokes was dead weight out there. I hate to say that, but as much as she was rebounding, that corner three wasn't clearing up what they needed. Right. Like, she was not shooting at the rate that she needed to be and making it at the rate that she needed to be. Wanted more out of. Megan Gustafson sometimes got the shot from her, but ultimately, I think they need. I think. I love the Natasha Howard suggestion. They need size and they need another score to balance out the nights that Asia Wilson is starting slow.
- [18:41]
Sabrina
And I guess, you know, we will have to wait and see. Like, Asia's obviously coming off a historically good year. Yeah, you would think that core is gonna continue to take strides. Kelsey Plum, I guess, also could go elsewhere, though I don't think either of us are expecting that to happen, so.
- [18:56]
Ben
Well, the Aces can core her, so probably not.
- [18:58]
Sabrina
Yeah, right, exactly. So, you know, I guess we'll have to see how they approach the off season. Finally, they had some exit interviews, so they'll have some time to talk it all over.
- [19:06]
Ben
If they had exit interviews, they were not available to the public.
- [19:09]
Sabrina
Okay, that is true. That is a great point, Sabrina. That is a great point.
- [19:12]
Nina
Oh, wait, before we move on, just for clarification, not overall dead weight, just on offense. Okay, let's keep moving.
- [19:22]
Sabrina
Thank you for the clarification there, Xena. All right, number four is about the Indiana Fever. This is not a Caitlin Clark question. Though I am curious how her golf game is continuing to progress. It relates to her backcourt partner, Kelsey Mitchell. And will Kelsey Mitchell return to the Indiana Fever? Just for context here, Kelsey Mitchell was the number two pick of the Indiana Fever in 2018. She has seen a lot through her years with the Fever. A lot of losing, a lot of losing, a lot more losing. And this year, they did a lot of winning, and they seem to have that arrow pointing very clearly up. And Kelsey Mitchell, in her exit interview, said she was excited to explore free agency. She acknowledged that she'd never been a free agent before, and so she was excited to see how it was gonna go. She kind of gave you the classic, like, the conversations are gonna be had. I'm gonna do what's best for me. On the other side, D and Dana Fever have also changed up their front office. Kelly Kraskoff, who had been with the franchise previously, then joined the Indiana Pacers on the NBA side in their front office, is now back. She's calling the shots at Indiana right now. At her introductory press conference, she said that Kelsey Mitchell was a clearly a very foundational piece. Kelly actually was a part of the draft process involving Kelsey Mitchell. So it goes back to, what do they do? She could be cord, but does she still want to be there? I don't really know. And she was really important to their success. Played in an all W level this year. So Kelsey Mitchell, where's she at?
- [20:51]
Nina
I think she stays. I think Indiana Fever realized that they struck gold towards the end of the season with the way that Kelsey Mitchell was playing in the backcourt with Caitlin Clark. I think Kelsey Mitchell being an all star probably helped her sentiments around her position and her role within the Indiana Fever. I think they offer her a max, and they want her to stay with Caitlin Clark. As a vet that knows how to handle Clark from a basketball perspective, but also a personality on the court perspective. We remember the Clark crew between Aaliyah, Boston, you know, Kelsey Mitchell keeping Clark in under wraps with the refs, I think that was a good thing beyond just the good basketball that was happening. So I think. I think they see that this is a valuable connection that they've built, and they. They keep her and they offered her the maximum.
- [21:41]
Zena
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Ben
The beauty of all of Indiana's best players, other than Kelsey Mitchell being rookies, is that their salary sheet is really clean. Right. Like, Caitlin Clark, Lexi, Holly at Boston, Alyssa Smith, they're all on rookie contracts. They've got whatever money they want to offer to Kelsey Mitchell. And, you know, I'm not one to read into, like, public appearances so much, but you saw the two of them sitting courtside at that Pacers game, you know, last month or maybe earlier this month. Sorry. Time is sort of blended together for me. The video that the Fever put out of all of her teammates wishing her well for winning Rookie of the Year, like, when Kelsey said, you know, I'm always in your corner in your back court, like, that was just such a good line. And it makes you think that she really does enjoy playing with Caitlin. You know, our colleague Richard Deitch had Kelsey Mitchell's agent on his podcast a week or so ago, and she said that, like, she just really wanted to experience the process of being a free agent. She signed an extension with Indiana before she could hit free agency. So she's just never had this process before. Right. And people like being recruited, they like being wooed. They like knowing what's out there for them. But I do think that you look at what's out there, and in Indiana, you have a committed organization, you have a roster that's mostly going to turn, you know, turn around and come back next year. It's a place that she clearly has enjoyed being because she's been there for so long and has never really agitated to get out. I think it can be nice to, like, seek out greener pastures, but, like, they got a really good thing going in Indiana, and I think Kelsey Mitchell takes a lot of pride in what she's done to make, like, herself a part of that. So I would expect her to stay. I hate to just, you know, go for a clean sweep here, but that's what I think is going to happen.
- [23:10]
Sabrina
No, I appreciate the feedback and the pushback on that question, and I like that you said go for greener pastures, Sabrina, because intentional or not, Indiana is the greenest pasture there is right now with all the money that is continuing to flow in to that franchise. And there is no reason to suspect that will be changing. So I guess the moral is I need to do some work on my Indiana Fever questioning as we go forward this offseason. Okay, we're moving down the list here. Team number five in your power rankings was the Connecticut Sun. 28 and 12 overall took it to five games against the Minnesota Lynx. Lest we forget, they lost by 11 in game five. They were outscored by 13 points in the first quarter. So what that means over the final three quarters, they actually outscored the Lynx. For what it is worth, the Sun. There are a lot of ways I could have taken this question. A lot of players, a lot of coaching situations. I guess generally it is who is going to be back with the franchise by next spring. Because at dejuana, Bonner, Bree Jones, Free agents, all of them. Only Alyssa Thomas can be cord. Stephanie White seems to be getting some interest for some other teams or at least is trying to up her the negotiation and value of her contract. Bree January seems like she's going to be an assistant who's going to get some looks for some potential head coaching opportunities here. Like there could be a year of transition here for the Connecticut Sun. They had made six straight semis. Like they are so consistent all the time. But are they finally not that entering next year?
- [24:37]
Ben
I think we're going to get one more year of Connecticut being this version of Connecticut just because lord knows what the WNBA is going to look like in 2026. Everybody's on one year deals entering this off season. You know, the two expansion teams coming in, new CBA coming through, the entire structure of the league could fundamentally change. I kind of think teams are going to be a little bit more conservative in terms of roster decisions this time around. Then again, that's the fact that five coaches are already fired suggests that conservatism in terms of roster like organization decision making is out of the window. But I kind of think that Connecticut is going to give it one more ride. And as I'm saying it, I don't even believe because we've seen this team lose six straight times in the playoffs and just keep coming up against it over and over again. So like I just don't know what they would do. You know, they're out their first round pick that they gave in the Marina Mabry trade. They don't really have like a stable of young talent to build around like young stars. So I think they're kind of just boxed into like let's bring AT back, let's bring DB back and just try and hope that we get a break. And it sounds so bleak as I'm saying it, but I can't even get into it.
- [25:40]
Nina
I'm halfway there with you, Sabrina. I think at Bonner, Bri and Carrington all come back. I feel like Dijonay Carrington's not going anywhere where her parents aren't. Her parents being at and dejuanna Bonner. I don't know if Stephanie White comes back. I actually, I genuinely don't think that she might. She'll be in Connecticut next year. We've heard the rumors that she's, you know, engaging conversations with Chicago sky, the rumors with Indiana Fever as well. And again we just talked about the Fever who struck gold. They want to capitalize on this moment with two first round number one picks and Kelsey Mitchell All Star who's just killing it with Caitlin Clark. I feel like they want a coach to come in and immediately take advantage and I don't know. I don't think she's a part of it. The return for the Connecticut Sun.
- [26:30]
Sabrina
Right. And then it begs the question of, like, who fills that role? How does the organization move forward? Like, she clearly has been a really good coach for them and, you know, would set up, would go to another situation which she feels better set up. Right. Or like, at least better compensated. So, like, how do they kind of overcome, you know, not having someone like Steph White and what does that say about the organization? Like, I think those are all kind of offshoot questions from this big central question. And what could be a year and off season of transition for the Connecticut Sun? Okay, number six. And now we should say we're starting to get a little bit out of order based on the standings from last year. You know, we've started to do that, but now we're going to some a little bit more unexpected teams. If you haven't seen Sabrina's article. And so coming in at number six for you, Sabrina, were the Phoenix Mercury. And you know, I've tried to come up with some interesting questions here and do some.
- [27:19]
Nina
Was it a struggle?
- [27:20]
Sabrina
Sparked some different conversations. But on this one, we're going back to the well that we have seen for 20 years. And it is very simple. It is, will Diana Tarasi return? And if she does not, what does that mean for this organization and how they proceed?
- [27:35]
Ben
So is this it? Is the question, right?
- [27:37]
Sabrina
Yeah. Like, is this it? And frankly, it is. Like, if it is it, what do they do? And if it is not it, what do they do? Because, like, Tarasi in much like, you know, Kobe, I think about Kobe towards the end of his career. Like, you still have to make choices around someone like Diana Taurasi, even though she is not at her peak form anymore. And so, you know, if she does retire, I imagine they're moving into, you know, making some different decisions than if she decides to come back and come back for how long? So, yeah, that's kind of it. It's a little more abstract than just yes or no.
- [28:08]
Ben
I think what's interesting about Phoenix relative to a lot of these other teams is like, there seems to be at least some sort of synergy in terms of what they want across the board, and that has been to surround Diana Taurasi with a team that they believe is capable of winning right now. And that has obviously led to some short sighted Decisions in the past. You know, you look at the fact that Phoenix will not have its first round pick in this year's draft, and they're selecting 12th because of a swap that they made with the New York Liberty to get Michaela Onion, where a couple years ago, who, incidentally, is no longer on the team. But I think what makes me excited about Phoenix, and this is no disrespect to Diana Taurasi. It's just if she retires, which I believe she will, just based on all of the fanfare that she allowed to occur around her over the past, you know, final weeks of the regular season, it just changes the way the Mercury can think about what they do. You know, like, there's just finally, like, a new light on the horizon. And it's like, all right, let's. Let's rejigger the way, like, we can run our offense. Like, we can probably put two or three players into Diana Tarazi's maximum salary slot, right? Like, finally build the depth of this team in the way that wasn't possible when, you know, so much of the money was being committed to a player who wasn't always, you know, playing as well as some other players who were making that contract in the wnba. So I'm just kind of excited for, like, what this looks like going forward. I think, you know, you've got Kalia Copper and Natasha Cloud, great backcourt. I think Sophie Cunningham had a really underrated season this past year. When Rebecca Allen was healthy, that team was really clicking. I liked what we saw of Natasha Mack and Celeste Taylor. Kiki Herbert Harrigan, I think, was, like, finally allowed to, you know, look like a WNBA player in this situation. I just think that, like, the prospect of something new, you know, And I liked the style of play that Nate Tibbets installed. I think if they lean further into that, that could help them going forward. But, yeah, it's just, like, prospect of change is very exciting to me. And that's why I think I'm so excited about what the Mercury could look like, because we've just known what they've looked like for so long and, you know, maybe not now.
- [30:03]
Nina
I'm gonna be boring. I have to say I 1000% agree with this. I feel like Phoenix is gonna get a refresh and not to say that where they were is bad, but it is fun to think about. Is there a new guard that you could bring in to be a new pick and roll threat with bg, Right? Is there a guard that you can come in to allow Ky Copper to be more off ball and allow even, you know, Tosh to be more off ball. I mean, I'm looking at the free agency list trying to think of like, you know, who else could be a good fit. I wonder if Phoenix is going to make a play for Kelsey Plum. That would be really interesting. But either way, I definitely am excited at the concept of a fresh start. Now you're kind of finally aligning the timelines of this team. Nate Tibbets coming in, kind of having a team that was already set in its identity and now he can kind of refresh it with however he'd like.
- [30:52]
Sabrina
I guess we should also say Brittney Griner is an unrestricted free agent. And so if you want to get really bold making a prediction that she might also be playing else somewhere else if Diana isn't there, like that's a bold prediction. I'll also close the loop from just a purely factual standpoint. Diana Taurasi earlier this week, or I guess last week rather, she told the AP that she isn't taking the prospect of retirement lightly. And she said that she thinks about it every day. I'm still in deep thought about it. She said. I want to make the right decision and I'm just taking my time a little bit. So that is kind of what Taurasi said in terms of the latest update where she's at as she makes this decision. Okay, team number sort7 at this point also has some aging stars on it, and that is the Seattle Storm. And the way I approach this question is, you know, being around the New York Liberty this year, they talked a lot about chemistry and cohesion and being in year two and the importance of just knowing each other and how that helped them really take the next step. And obviously we saw with New York in the end it made the difference because they won a championship. Though maybe going back to my initial question, how much of a difference did it make? But that's neither here nor there with the Seattle Storm with Neko Gumike and Skylar Deegan Smith and Jewell Lloyd now entering their second year together with Ezzy Magma Gore. Two Other than just chemistry, like, other than cohesion and just that familiarity, how does the offense get better? How do they take the next step on that end? Number seven in offensive rating, they were the number five seed. You would think it was all going to click a little bit more than it did and it feels easy and convenient to be like year two. We're going to go up a level and we look at the league. There's a ton of talent. So like other things, you know, I feel like other things have to change and it's just what are those things?
- [32:43]
Nina
1 Gabby Williams is there the full season. She's an unrestricted free agent though, so we'll see if she comes back. But I think she was a big boost towards the end of the year. It's hard to think that it could be anything but chemistry and cohesion. These are all incredibly talented scorers in Jewel Lloyd, Schuyler Diggins Smith and Neca Gumaque. Add Ezzy Magnagore in that too. I just feel as if it is a level of understanding the roles they each play within the offense, when to go towards the basket, when to give Jewel Lloyd space to create, when to, you know, allow scholar Dickens Smith to create and transition. Like, I feel like so many of those things come with the reps of understanding when players want to create. I don't know. I don't know if it's more than just chemistry and cohesion. I don't know. This is not a Stewie and Sabrina get in the gym situation. I feel like this is just all of them got to get together way more often.
- [33:39]
Ben
I kind of think there are just limits on what their talent can achieve at this point. Like you looked at New York last year and there were peaks when they hit and you were like, oh, okay, that looks like a championship team. And Becky Hammond has even said there was a stretch in, you know, August of the end of that season where New York was playing better than them. And for a coach to admit that like another team was playing better than a team that went 34 and six over the course of the regular season, like, that's a high level to reach. And I don't know that we ever saw that level with Seattle this year. It wasn't a matter of consistency. It wasn't a matter of getting to know one another. It was just, do we have enough offense on this team? Like, if you are dealing with, you know, a point guard who historically not a great three point shooter in Skylar Diggins Smith, you know, I think she's kind of peaked around the the 30% range in her career. Like she shot 29.1% from 3 point range last year, you pair that with Jewel Lloyd, who seemingly has forgotten how to hit a jump shot since Subird retired. This is a league where the best offenses win. You talk about defense wins championships all you want. And I know Cheryl Reeves said like they won game five with their defense, referring to the New York Liberty. The best offenses Win the title and Seattle is so far away from the best offense in the wnba and where do we get that unless Jewel Lloyd just turns back the clock? Like, that's, that's all I got. That's all I got in terms of this roster reaching what I think they want to be.
- [35:02]
Sabrina
I think it's really hard in the WNBA especially to just rest on the idea of chemistry and cohesion allowing you to take the next step. I think you can kind of do it say like in the NBA where you know, if you approach, you know, if you use that approach as the anchor to your off season and you really don't tinker a lot and then suddenly it's January and you realize, oh man, we need to like really juice up our roster or make some big changes. Well, the trade deadline is there and the cap situation is set up to make a lot of moves and work the buyout market. The WNBA because of how things are set up and structured, like I don't think teams are afforded that same ability. And so you kind of just wake up like one day maybe in mid July or in August, you're like, what do we do? And there isn't a lot you then can do. And you know, they brought Gabby Williams in this year and it did make a difference. But like I think you have to be proactive here and I just wonder what they do as a means to be proactive because if you're Seattle Storm frame, the worst thing you want to have happen is suddenly we're having this conversation again in mid July and the struggles are the same with, you know, the rest of the league kind of having passed them by. As you were saying.
- [36:08]
Nina
I definitely feel like, you know, to Sabrina's point of like did we see them peak? There were certain several games they were, you know, 90 plus points a game put. I remember there was a game against the Fever that they put up.
- [36:19]
Ben
Well, the Fever had a historically terrible.
- [36:21]
Nina
Defense but sure, that's true, that's true. But I'm just saying I feel like the capability is there in my opinion. I agree with you that I don't look at Skylar Dickens Smith to be a shooter anymore. The kick out shooter, a spot up shooter, anything create pull up shooter at all. I definitely see her to be, you know, someone that goes downhill. Jewel Lloyd was incredibly streaky from what we know her to be in terms of the mid range was incredibly streaky this past season. But I also think that there was times that they got in each other's way and that's why I'M thinking about the chemistry and the cohesion, but you guys make good points. You cannot rest your laurels on that. And you're right. 7th versus being 3rd, 4th maybe, you know, with room to like, 7th is a long gap to try and fill for next year.
- [37:07]
Sabrina
Right. And the league is so, so talented. So I guess we'll have to see kind of what they do then to make a change and look lucky for the Seattle Storm. They have a front office right now who is weighing a lot of those decisions over because team number eight on your power rankings list, Sabrina, is the Washington Mystics. And you know, last week they let go of Mike Tebow, who is calling the shots from the basketball side, and their coach, Eric Tebow. And so my question for the Washington Mystics is a little bit redundant to our coaching carousel episode, but Michael Winger is now the new president of Monumental basketball as of May 2023. He's calling the shots. They're looking to reset the organization. They seem like they've said, I think they told the Washington Post Winger did that like they're, they don't necessarily need a coach and or GM by the expansion draft in early December. This is a big off season for the Washington Mystics and it seems like there's a lot of uncertainty and it starts at the top. My question is very simply, who is the coach and who is the gm?
- [38:08]
Ben
I mean, if I had answers to these questions, I would be in Michael Winger's role instead of podcasting with you lovely folks. But yeah, I, if I were rewriting these rankings, you know, today, I think, I think the order would be a little different. The stability was one of the things I liked in Washington, you know, that they had a theory of what Eric Tebow was building with that team. And apparently I was unaware that that that was not what was in place. Some of the interesting quotes that have come out in the, you know, reaction to Mike and Eric Thibaut mutual parting of ways from Washington, which interesting that all of the male coaches got a parting of ways and the female coaches were let go from the wnba. But we'll circle back to that at a later date. It does seem like Washington has a longer appetite for rebuild than what the Tebows were trying to achieve. And you know, that means that like, are we going to see them protect Sika Cone, Emily Engsler, Jade Melbourne at like the expense of a Stephanie Dolson and a Brittany Sykes in this upcoming expansion draft? I don't know. But I do think that they're probably going to lean very heavily on the player development side, when it comes to hiring a coach, again, that seemed to be an Eric Thibaut specialty. So what do I know? But like a Tyler Marsh, you know, Christy Toliver has some experience with the organization. She obviously played with the Mystics for a very long time, was an assistant coach with the Wizards. So somebody, you know, who might be an attractive name to bring back to the district. I would just imagine it's somebody very young, somebody in their first time in the head coaching role, and probably a young GM, too, who just has the stomach to sit with his bad team for a little while.
- [39:40]
Nina
I'm going to go ahead and predict that of all the teams that have to fill their coaching spot, I think Washington will be the one to pull from a non women's basketball pool. I think they're going to. They're going to try and do something similar to what Phoenix did in terms of their GM choice and their head coach choice and kind of just flip the script and be a little bit unprecedented. Just because of what Ben just said, Their appetite for a rebuild is a little bit bigger. They're fine with waiting for their meal. And I think that that may require them to think outside the box. And let's just be real. When you've got an executive that comes from the men's side of basketball, sometimes their thoughts of being outside the box is going right back to the box they just came from. So I think if there's any team that's gonna go and pull from, which means I don't know what that's gonna look like. Cause that just increases the chances of, you know, who it could be. But I think that they're gonna do that, do something a little bit different in that way.
- [40:38]
Sabrina
Sabrina, I just like the thought of you auditioning, you know, for the Mystics GM job by like submitting your predictions as to who they should protect and just giving them some thoughts. I mean, I have thoughts. Might as well write it in like, you know, as a reader, like the Washington Post, like letter, you know, letter for the opinion section is just a reader that they can maybe print and use. Might be how they proceed going forward.
- [40:59]
Ben
I am not unfamiliar with Michael Winger, having covered the Clippers during his tenure there. So, you know, there you go.
- [41:05]
Sabrina
I guess you never know. All right, number nine on the way too early power rankings. And I guess the big questions rankings for the sake of this exercise relates to the Atlanta dream, who, you know, snuck into the playoffs on the last day, picking up a big win over the New York Liberty which if you listen to our Finals recap, was a very important win in the New York Liberty's season because it kind of changed the course of their postseason run. The Atlanta Dream dealt with a lot of injuries this year. They also now have a coaching change. Tanisha Wright was let go after the season. Their starting lineup though, and we talked about this a lot and so this is not exactly like, you know, rewriting history or something. Super revelatory. Was one of the best starting lineups in the league despite all the injuries. Right. Their five person group of Tina Charles, Alicia Gray, Jordan Canada, Ryan Howard and Nas Hillman, they played 327 minutes together. That was the fourth most of any five person lineup in the league. They just appeared though in 15 games in the regular season. By comparison, the lineups ahead of them, Connecticut Suns starting 5, 37 games played, Minnesota's 32, Seattle's 25 and 344 minutes. I went down the list in terms of minutes. Like the next five person combo that played in only 15 games was an Indiana Fever group and not even their most used that appeared in just 175 minutes. So that's almost like that's a little more than half of what the Atlanta dreamed in. All that is to say they used their starting lineup a lot and were very good with the starting lineup plus 15.4 net rating. And so the question is simply how does Atlanta build around its core and that starting lineup? I'm kind of assuming Tina Charles is back and that they're working with that five person group. How does Atlanta take the leap keeping those five players intact?
- [42:55]
Ben
Well, I think this would be a good year for their international additions to come over, you know, start to build the next depth pieces because Haley Jones, Leticia and me here don't appear to have caught the fancy of, you know, Tanisha Wright or really figured out their role within this system. Of course, maybe a new coach changes that because, you know, we're talking about players who were just drafted in 2023. There's, you know, a long Runway ahead for them. Maybe this is why Tanisha Wright was let go because there was just not a lot, you know, beyond the starting lineup that they could point to as success stories for the Atlanta Dream. I do think that, you know, as we mentioned with all these other teams, it just, it requires a lot more than a starting five to be good in the wnba. And we just didn't see any semblance of depth on Atlanta over this past season despite their, you know, myriad attempts to try like Maya Caldwell and Nia Coffey and Haley Jones and Lorella Kubay in these starting roles. I would just love to see what Nadia Pooch looks like in an Atlanta Dream uniform. I think Kubay is actually kind of an interesting player. If Tina Charles ends up not coming back, which she was very close to Tanisha Wright, I'm not sure what the draw is, you know, for her to come back to Atlanta. I'm not going to speculate any which way there, but I do think this is another player development situation. Right. Like, we need to build a roster beyond veterans who had already established their pedary before they got to Atlanta, other than Ryan Howard. And like, that just didn't happen in Atlanta over the past couple years. So, like, we keep bringing up these same names of like, Tyler Marsh and like Katie Smith has obviously been very good in Minnesota helping develop that roster. So maybe that's what they're looking for, but I think that's what you have to do with the Dream, right? Like, you have to show you're more than just five players who play a lot together but still apparently don't win enough games to get you where you want to go.
- [44:31]
Nina
Ben, your question is, how do you keep that core together and build off of them?
- [44:36]
Sabrina
Yeah, it's just like, what else do they need to do around the roster? Because I do think Atlanta has something that works with their starting five, and I think, you know, they certainly talked a lot about all year, like, if that group played, played more, we would have been better. And I do think there is truth to that.
- [44:52]
Nina
Yeah, no, I agree with you. I. I think a new coach will bring some ingenuity in the way that they utilize some of these players that I think were underutilized. It is a very rare trait to have a big guard like Haley Jones, and we know the capabilities of Haley Jones from her college years. I. I don't think she's been well utilized coming off the bench in Atlanta for the portion of her career we haven't seen Nadia Pouch yet. I think she will be a great developing talent for them in terms of length and also an outside shot to be able to add onto that from the bench. I think once you get a new coach in there to think a little bit differently on how to utilize some of these existing players and the new talent. I'm going to pause before we try to change up the rest of the bench and see what a new coach can do with that talent.
- [45:36]
Sabrina
You know, I think Atlanta could be one of these teams that if they hit a Home run this offseason. Like we talk about cohesion and continuity, they could sneakily be one of these rising teams. Like I agree now with a lot of young talent if you know they're, you know, some of the offseason the players come over. Isabel Borlase, another like high profile Australian. A number of their players fittingly are going to play in the WNBL in Australia this offseason. You know, it will be interesting to see what happens there. Like if some of their players, their young core, their starters make the leap even more. And some of these, you know, contributing players also come in and make a difference. Like Atlanta could be a sneaky riser heading into next season. And you know, throughout the year though I guess a lot of teams kind of believe that they could be in that situation. Which leads me perfectly into the number 10 team on your list, Sabrina, and that is the Dallas Wings, who recently made a coaching change letting go of Latricia Trammell after just two seasons. The Dallas Wings struggled to say the least in the 2024 season. They won just nine games, missed the playoffs, 23 games back of the New York Liberty, which is pretty crazy when you put it that way. And I guess my question with them is going back a year earlier, was 2023 just a total one off year for the Dallas Wings because in 2023 they were the number four seed. They were one of only four teams in the league that year to finish with a winning record. Things felt great. Satus Abali, first team all wnba Arike Gumbawale another great scoring year. The defense was improved under LT and now two years later after missing the playoffs and having an injury riddled year and now needing a new coach, a lot more questions and the league is better. So was 2023 just a flash in the pan or was 2024 flash in the pan and this team is a lot closer to contending again than we might realize.
- [47:33]
Nina
I'll only say it's a flash in the pan for this year. The injuries were abundant for the Dallas Wings. We didn't really get to see Satyu Sable until after the Olympic break. Who knows what that could have, how she could have impacted their start. Arike Gumbawale was just carrying that team on her back for the majority of the season. I don't think it's fair to assess them based off of sheer lack of talent they had throughout the course of their season with so many injuries. I think it was satu sableed. Natasha Howard had her toe situation. There was just so many throughout the roster. They were depleted, I guess is my point. And so I think this year was more a flash in the pan of just not their full roster. At full strength and back healthy. I absolutely think they can get back to a winning record. I mean, God, I cannot believe you just nine games is actually crazy to hear out loud.
- [48:26]
Ben
And not even the worst record in the WNBA with those.
- [48:30]
Nina
I mean, that's painful, right? Right. We'll get there.
- [48:34]
Ben
But yeah, I'm inclined to think that if SATU is healthy, that that is a more accurate reflection of what Dallas looks like. But also, they kind of just shot themselves in the foot to start the season with no veteran point guard on the team. Like they willingly came into the year with a Rookie, albeit a 26 year old European rookie running the show. And her only backup was J.C. sheldon, you know, who was another rookie coming out of the draft. They got rid of Crystal Dangerfield. They didn't have Odyssey Sims on the roster. They got rid of Veronica Burton, which, my goodness, does that look terrible after how she showed out in Connecticut. But I just worry about the decision making on a larger scale with Dallas sometimes because they invest so much into the center position with Tara McCowan and Kalani Brown and trading a future lottery pick to get Stephanie Soarez. And it's like how many of them can even play together at once, you know, and at the same time we're just throwing darts at the wall for a point guard, which feels like it's a lot more important, especially in the way that the WNBA is run today. So I think the fact that they're hiring a new GM kind of gives me a little bit of more optimism about, you know, just a stronger basketball plan going forward, you know, that like those responsibilities are split between what Greg Bibb is doing and what the new GM will be doing. I think anytime you can add more voices to the room in a front office, put more investment into like the number of people who are contributing to this process is a good thing for WNBA teams. But I'm a little worried that like SATU is even going to end up back in Dallas because how many times have we seen stars just ask their way out even when Dallas has their rights, right? Like Alicia Gray demanded a trade. Marina Mabry demanded that sign and trade, you know, to get out. Even if Dallas recoups some assets for Satu, my gut says she doesn't really want to stay there based on how everything is geared around Enrique. So if I were to make a bold prediction, which I realize goes back to last episode's gimmick and not this one. I don't think Satu Sable ends up on a Dallas wings uniform in 2025, and that means that I just don't have a ton of faith in what this team's upside is this coming season.
- [50:32]
Nina
I think Dallas is one of those teams. Of all the 12 teams, they're the one team that is living and dying by this identity that were big and. And we have a rek like that. Like, I feel like that is their. The essence of their offense. And you saw in the first half of the season and every time they were close, they had a lot of close calls. And what did you often point to? Arique killing it and the bigs just being big. You've got to have more than that. Like, you. You can't just have. You can't rest your laurels on the fact that Kalani Brown and Tierra McCowan effect shots and then also can, you know, have put backs and clean up the glass. Like, I don't know if they know more to their offense and who they are beyond those two points.
- [51:16]
Sabrina
I mean, I guess we're going to have to wait and see. And again, as you mentioned, Sabrina, like, this is another team that might have or that will have a new general manager, though Greg Bibb is still with the franchise and will still obviously have a say. But, you know, another team in transition, which, you know, we're kind of reaching that point of the podcast with the teams in transition theme. And Sabrina, maybe this next team, you should be asking the question or questions about them. So I'll keep this one broad. It is the Los Angeles Sparks, you obviously being the Angeleno on this podcast, the Sparks, who finished with the worst record in the WNBA this year and have in theory, the best lottery odds. They have a 44% chance to take home the number one pick at the lottery, 44.2, if we're being precise. But if we're also being precise, they don't actually have the best odds because the Dallas Wings actually, because a function of having their own pick and the rights to swap with the Chicago sky, actually have a 45.4% chance because we're combining both Chicago's odds and Dallas's of getting the number one pick. So we'll leave the math aside on this one. My question, though, Sabrina, is how much does ownership want to now steer the team's future? And you can take that however way you want.
- [52:32]
Ben
All right. So fun fact about the Sparks ownership is they're probably presently occupied with other things because their main investment, the Los Angeles Dodgers, is playing in the World Series as we speak. So you look at what that ownership group was able to do, the Guggenheim group, for the Dodgers, in terms of completely revitalizing that franchise in the wake of what Frank McCourt did and just really shattered it to the ground. Gave Sparks fans a lot of high hopes for what they could accomplish for the Sparks when they took over in 2015, 2016, and you know, they immediately won a title in 2016, made it back to WNBA Finals in 2017, and have basically been absent ever since. Like, I'm not even sure I see Magic Johnson, who is the nominal face of the group at Sparks games anymore. I don't think I saw him once during the 2024 regular season and yet did an interview with the LA Times right around the end of the season where he would not confirm that he had confidence in bringing Kurt Miller back. And lo and behold, Kurt Miller is no longer on the coach of the Los Angeles Sparks. I think the real question here is why did I rank them 11th and not 12th? And that's just, they've got Rekia Jackson, they've got Cameron Brink, they've got probably a top two pick coming in the lottery. They've got Ray Burrell DE Erica Hamby, who had the best season of her career. I think there's just a lot of talent on this roster when they're all healthy. And hopefully ownership realizes that despite what has happened over the last four years, this is a franchise that has not made the playoffs since 2020, has not hosted a playoff game since 2019, because obviously 2020 was in the bubble. There might be a rush to want to get back, but with the core they have, I just hope that ownership realizes that. You know, I used this statement earlier, like they can stomach a rebuild here. Like there is enough star power and like people who will resonate with the fans that it's okay if it takes a little bit time to get back because it doesn't need to be rushed with the crew that they have. Like, this will grow organically. We've seen this happen in Las Vegas when they had three straight years of number one picks and it all eventually glommed together. You know, three years after they drafted Jackie Young into a championship. Like, sometimes it takes time, and I hope that the ownership group realizes that, but the fact that they already got rid of a head coach who appeared to be making inroads with the players doesn't make me super confident about that. Patience So I think in answer to your question about, like, what ownership is going to do here, the Sparks have so much of their current roster under contract for 2025. Like a team that won eight games and they've got 10 players, I believe, returning in 2025, my guess is it is not going to look like that. My guess is that we're going to see some wholesale changes in addition to just the coaching. And I don't think it's going to be for the best, frankly, but we'll see what happens.
- [54:57]
Nina
You didn't ask me, Ben. You asked Sabrina. You specifically directed this to Sabrina. That's all I got to say.
- [55:05]
Sabrina
I feel like we just needed to let her cook there.
- [55:07]
Nina
Yeah, I'm down with that, but perfectly flat.
- [55:10]
Sabrina
I think your Dodgers comparison super interesting because as you were speaking, I was like, wow, Dave Roberts, the manager of the Dodgers, has been there a long time. He's been with the team since 2016. And in that span, basically the Sparks, once they hire their next coach, and assuming that Dave Roberts doesn't get fired, but that's for whatever baseball podcast we have at the Athletic, not this one. Like, they will now have gone to a fifth coach in the time since they hired Dave Roberts. Like, pretty crazy to look at that juxtaposition to this one with the LA Sparks. But, you know, I guess we'll have to see how that coaching search turns out and what other changes happen in the organization as a result.
- [55:47]
Ben
I'm not optimistic. Let's just put it that way.
- [55:49]
Sabrina
I guess we will see. I guess we're gonna close it out now suddenly with team number 12. And we're gonna stay on this theme, not necessarily about ownership as much, but about next steps and teams in search of identities. And it's very simple with the Chicago Sky. Who are your number 12 team?
- [56:07]
Nina
Is it.
- [56:08]
Sabrina
It is.
- [56:08]
Nina
Is it simple?
- [56:09]
Sabrina
Well, it is. My question is, who helps Chicago find stability? Is it their general manager, Jeff Pagliako, who's entering his second year? Is it a new head coach? Who is the head coach that they are hiring for the present and the future? Is it players, right? Is it Angel Reese? Is it Camila Cardoso? Is it Kennedy Carter, who's suddenly the core that they want to build around and helps them find stability? Like, what helps this franchise just, for like, lack of a better phrase, just kind of be normal? Like, what just helps them play basketball, build, retool, and just like, again, find that stability for how they proceed going forward? Because I don't know the answer right now.
- [56:53]
Nina
I Think it's got to be the head coach. There's obviously, after what happened with Teresa Weatherspoon, there's a little bit of animosity, resentment, in my opinion. There's not been stated animosity, but there's gotta be some animosity between the players and the general manager and just the executives. From how Teresa Weatherspoon was let go, it doesn't feel as if from the dedications that were put out on X and social media for Teresa Weatherspoon that any of the players really wanted that. I'm thinking Kennedy, Carter particularly, and Angel Reese. So whoever comes in as a head coach has to get them to buy in, has to get the players to say, listen, I know you may feel away about what happened with Teaspoon leaving, but I'm here now. I'm going to protect you guys. I'm going to protect what we're trying to do here. Just focus on me. And if a head coach can come in and basically allow their star players to say, I know I missed my old coach, but I'm going to buy into this one. I love what they're putting out in terms of the vision for this team that will create some stability, that even if the players don't like what the front office is doing, it doesn't matter because they're in the locker room, they're with their core group and, you know, they're focused together.
- [58:05]
Ben
Nothing that's happened in Chicago over the last three years suggests that stability is front of mind and what they're trying to build to me, which is why that they ended up at 12th in these rankings despite the fact that they finished ahead of the Sparks in this regular season. They obviously were chasing a playoff birth up until the final week of the season. Might have even gotten their head, Angel Reese, not gotten hurt. But, you know, that's an entirely different hypothetical chase. I just can't get over the fact that they hired a head coach and then a general manager, in that order, when both jobs were available during the last offseason. And we've talked about this so many times, you just can't go in that order deliberately. And for them to do that and then already have to call an audible on that head coach and just watch this Teaspoon Love tour that has, you know, emerged in New York. It just so strange to think that that person couldn't have a role in your organization going forward. Yeah, I really just don't know what to make of Chicago. Like, I would assume that, like, things are centered around Angel Reese and like you're trying to build a team around her, but that's also doesn't seem like the kind of team where you would willingly give up on Marina Mabry. So it's just a weird situation. They're like, they don't even have their full complement of picks going forward because they had to give up one to get angel in that pre draft trade with Minnesota. Like, to me, I have no idea from an outside perspective of what the thesis of this organization is. I don't get it. Because theoretically it would be angel, but then you fired Spoon and like, if it's not angel, then what are you doing? Because she clearly is like the business and financial draw of everything that you're doing right now. So. Yeah, I wish I had like a better thing to say here, but like, I don't, I don't see it. So that's, that's where I land with the Chicago Sky.
- [59:42]
Sabrina
Zena, I think we finally did it. As we close out this episode, we've gone all season long and I think this is the most perplexed and most speechless and most stunned. I've seen Sabrina talking about the WNBA since we started talking about this season. And I was expecting Sabrina to be speechless and shocked and stunned after, you know, we're taping this ahead of game one of the World Series. So Sabrina and I's friendship is very much on the line. I was expecting her to be so surprised based on the results of the World Series Series because I am a Yankees fan, she is a Dodgers fan. But no, this came early for us in this conversation. The Chicago sky were actually the thing that has left her the most surprised. I'm glad you're kind of speechless because I don't really know what to say about them either other than kind of what you mapped out, like what's next for them. And it was kind of surreal as the Liberty festivities and the parade took place like Teaspoon. There was such a love fest. There was such adoration, like, and we saw Angel, Reese and Teaspoon sitting to get like basically 16 seats apart courtside, interacting after the Liberty won. You gotta imagine they had dreamed that that would be them one day. And obviously it is not going forward. So, you know, those are our, those are our offseason questions to kind of close out this WNBA season though, you know, I'm sure we'll inevitably talk more WNBA going forward with all the craziness and unexpected stuff that is going to happen this fall. But on the encore perspective, at least Cena, that's All we got right now.
- [61:05]
Nina
No, this is awesome. Thank you for allowing that exercise to happen, allowing the readers and listeners to get into your head as far as what you're looking for in the off season. All of you who are fans of all of your teams, ask yourselves these questions. Are you able to answer amongst your group of friends that also support these teams? I'm looking at you, sky fans. You guys probably need to have the most powwows of all the groups within this conversation. Well, we appreciate you listening today. As we mentioned, this is the post mortem. We're closing it out on the wnba. But of course, as our show continues into the college space, we'll be keeping a pulse on several things. This coaching carousel, what's going on with free agency. So the conversation won't completely go away. It's just going to dim down a little bit so we can turn it up for women's college basketball. I am so pumped to start talking about women's hoops because you guys know this season is gonna be crazy. How are the narratives gonna pump up after what we were gifted with for the last few years? Well, yeah, there's still Paige Beckers, there's still Juju Watkins. There's still all of these amazing players. Flau J. Johnson. Oh, yeah. Remember, South Carolina is still a thing, folks. We're gonna talk about it all. Chantelle James is gonna be in the building with us in the building, in the virtual building, folks, for our podcast. But as always, please hit that subscribe button. You can go read this rankings that we just did our whole list off of on the site. Thank you to Sabrina and there's so much more coverage of the W and this upcoming college basketball season. Leave us comments. Write to us, just talk to us because we want to talk back to you and make sure that we're covering the stuff that you want to talk about. On behalf of Ben, on behalf of Sabrina, I am Zena Kaeda. Thank thanking you for your ear today, encouraging you to keep listening, keep watching, keep learning and keep loving the game. Because as always, that's the only way we're going to keep growing it until next time.
- [63:07]
Liquid IV Ad
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what? What isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99 of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card this.
- [63:32]
Zena
Podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers, and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark Web, blocks data brokers from selling your information, includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [64:26]
Ben
Acast powers the world's best Podcasts here's the show that we recommend.
- [64:33]
Nina
Hey guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast.
- [64:36]
Sabrina
For the past seven years, the Holderness Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do.
- [64:41]
Nina
We love getting to talk to experts.
- [64:43]
Liquid IV Ad
We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us. And we also love hearing from you.
- [64:47]
Sabrina
But the thing we love most is being a place where you can laugh.
- [64:51]
Liquid IV Ad
A lot has changed in the last.
- [64:52]
Nina
Seven years and we feel very lucky.
- [64:54]
Liquid IV Ad
That our audience is growing older with us.
- [64:57]
Sabrina
So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness.
- [65:04]
Nina
The Laugh Lines podcast will be all.
- [65:06]
Liquid IV Ad
About aging together better and also also.
- [65:09]
Sabrina
Being able to laugh about getting older.
- [65:11]
Liquid IV Ad
We hope you'll join us.
- [65:12]
Sabrina
Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness New episodes every Tuesday. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.
- [65:25]
Nina
Com.