Aces Deal a Winning Hand from Their Bench in Game 1

Summary

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No Offseason: The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show

Episode: "Aces Deal a Winning Hand from Their Bench in Game 1"

Date: October 4, 2025
Hosts: Ben Pickman & Sabrina Merchant

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Overview:

This episode, recorded live from Michelob Ultra Arena after Game 1 of the 2025 WNBA Finals, breaks down the Las Vegas Aces’ thrilling 89-86 victory over the Phoenix Mercury. Ben Pickman and Sabrina Merchant first dive into a pivotal press conference from WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert, addressing player criticism and league leadership, before turning to an in-depth analysis of Game 1: the big plays, coaching decisions, and the bench’s decisive impact.

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Commissioner Kathy Engelbert's Press Conference

[02:07–10:27]

Main Themes:

• Response to Player Criticism: Engelbert addressed comments from Nafisa Collier, who recently criticized the league and Engelbert’s leadership, notably regarding officiating and perceived disrespectful comments about players.
• Officiating Task Force: Engelbert announced the formation of a new “state of the game officiating task force,” signaling formal recognition of a disconnect between players, coaches, officials, and league directives.
• Denial of Specific Comments: Engelbert directly refuted Collier’s statements regarding Caitlin Clark’s sponsorships and the “lucky stars” comment.
• Leadership & Accountability: Engelbert was explicit about not being a “quitter,” and expressed that she wants to do better as commissioner, despite recent criticism. She cited her lengthy business and league experience, and acknowledged room for growth.
• Collective Bargaining Agreement Progress: While Kelsey Plum has characterized current CBA talks as "combative," Engelbert offered guarded optimism for an extension, stating ongoing communication with stakeholders.

Notable Quotes:

• On Officiating Alignment
  “She acknowledged that we are not aligned in how we see the game being officiated. What the players want, what the coaches want, what the referees are being told to do is not on the same page.”
  — Sabrina Merchant [02:48]

• On the Commissioner's Mindset
  “I'm not a quitter... she's going on 40 years in business, she said. And she was very proud of that.”
  — Ben Pickman [06:02]

• On the Press Conference's Magnitude
  “It was literally standing room only. Nobody wanted to leave the room... speaks to how big of a press conference this was for Kathy Engelbert in this moment.”
  — Ben Pickman [08:28]

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Game 1 Breakdown: Las Vegas Aces 89, Phoenix Mercury 86

[10:27–25:45]

Game Flow & Key Moments:

• First Half: Tied 21–21 after Q1; Mercury up by 5 at halftime. Mercury led into the fourth, a period that’s been their postseason strength.
• Turning Point: Aces outscored Mercury 22–15 in the final quarter.
• Crucial Free Throws: Alyssa Thomas (Phoenix) forced a late steal but missed what would have been go-ahead free throws with under 25 seconds, sealing the win for Las Vegas.
• Crunch Time: Mercury, who’ve excelled late all postseason, faltered with technical fouls, turnovers, and missed assignments.

Analysis & Takeaways:

Bench Dominance

• Dana Evans exploded for 21 points in 26 minutes; Jewel Lloyd added 18 from the bench.
• Aces’ bench outscored Mercury’s 41–16.
• This allowed Las Vegas to win despite below-average outputs from A’ja Wilson and Jackie Young.

Player & Coach Reflections:

• On Discipline: Satu Sabally’s technical foul in Q4, defensive miscues, and missed free throws highlighted Mercury’s lack of discipline.

  • “There was just a lack of discipline by the Mercury in that fourth quarter.” – Sabrina Merchant [12:05]

• On Experience: Despite being touted as experienced, Mercury’s core (Thomas, Bonner, Whitcomb) didn’t maximize experience in clutch moments.

• On Bench Production:

  • “This game was about the bench. It was about Dana Evans, who scores 21 points... and Jewel Lloyd... a super impressive performance.”
    — Ben Pickman [13:55]

• Becky Hammon (Aces Coach): Said A’ja and Jackie looked fatigued, so Evans and Lloyd lifted the team.

Defensive Adjustments:

• Aces’ 2-3 Zone: Second half saw Las Vegas disrupt Phoenix’s rhythm with a classic, rarely-used zone defense, forcing the Mercury into a 14-of-36 night from three.
  • “Phoenix Mercury struggled to go up against a 2-3 zone... It's just the basic principles that everybody knows about how to deal with a zone just elude their minds when they see it in a professional basketball game.”
    — Sabrina Merchant [18:50]
• Mercury's Offensive Fatigue: Frequent turnovers, rushed shots, and questionable shot selection in the fourth doomed Phoenix.

Postgame Vibes and Quotes

• Dana Evans (on overcoming losing her voice):
  “God wasn't going to let her not have her voice for the final.”
  — (paraphrased) [16:03]

• A’ja Wilson (on Evans):
  “Our battery.” [15:46]

• Ben Pickman on the Aces' bench performance:
  "To get the win in the manner of which they did with the play of Evans and Lloyd, knowing you didn’t have your best stuff necessarily from A’ja and Jackie, like that counts. That means a lot." [14:35]

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Mercury: Missed Opportunities and Adjustments Ahead

[20:22–25:45]

• Alyssa Thomas: Almost a triple-double (15-10-9); missed potential go-ahead free throws.

  • "This is not an unfamiliar position for the Mercury, not an unfamiliar position for Alyssa Thomas." — Sabrina Merchant [20:43]

• Bench, Rotation, and Coaching:

  • Phoenix shortened its bench quickly; Cat Westbeld played just five minutes.
  • Sabreena Merchant noted defensive mismatches, especially Dewanna Bonner struggling to contain Dana Evans.
  • Nate Tibbetts, Mercury coach, admitted postgame he should have called a timeout in the final possession.
    • “I should have called the timeout on that last possession… instead, Phoenix just throws up like a prayer from Sabally and they don’t get a good shot.” — [25:02]

• Defensive Shortcomings:

  • Phoenix forced just five turnovers; transition offense was limited.

• Team Mindset:

  • Kalia Copper on rallying after the loss:
    “Nah, we’re good, we’re good. Like that is the message for A.T.” — [21:14]
  • Ben Pickman: “If you would have told me pre-game one that [all those stats], you would have said—who wins that game? Feels like a game Phoenix wins.” [21:58]
  • Sabrina Merchant: “Nothing from game one changes my mind about [this being] a really good series.” [25:45]

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Series Outlook & What’s Next

[25:45–26:32]

• Quick Turnaround: Game 2 tips at 3 p.m. Eastern / Noon Pacific. Expect another high-energy Aces crowd.
• Episode Schedule: Podcasts will drop after every finals game.
• Social & Behind-the-Scenes: Listeners are encouraged to follow @nooffseason on Instagram for extra content.

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Key Timestamps

• 02:07 — Commissioner Engelbert's press conference coverage starts
• 10:27 — Game 1 breakdown begins
• 14:35 — Analysis of Aces bench impact
• 16:03 — Dana Evans’ postgame quotes
• 18:50 — Discussion of Las Vegas’s defensive adjustments
• 20:43 — Alyssa Thomas postgame reaction
• 21:14 — Kalia Copper on supporting Thomas
• 25:02 — Coaching analysis of final Mercury possession
• 25:45 — Series outlook

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Tone:
Conversational, fast-paced, basketball-savvy, with an insider’s access and analytic rigor.

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Notable Quotes Summary

• “She acknowledged that we are not aligned in how we see the game being officiated.” — Sabrina Merchant [02:48]
• “I'm not a quitter.” — Kathy Engelbert (via Ben Pickman) [06:02]
• "This game was about the bench." — Ben Pickman [13:55]
• “God wasn't going to let her not have her voice for the final.” — Dana Evans (paraphrased) [16:03]
• “Our battery.” — A’ja Wilson on Dana Evans [15:46]
• "I should have called the timeout..." — Nate Tibbetts (Mercury Head Coach) [25:02]
• “Nah, we’re good, we’re good. Like that is the message for A.T.” — Kalia Copper [21:14]

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In Summary

The Aces secured a crucial Game 1 win, powered by their deep bench and defensive adjustments, while the Mercury face familiar adversity with confidence and the resolve to adjust. Off the court, the episode offered behind-the-scenes insight into the league’s leadership challenges, setting up a finals series as historic off the hardwood as on it.

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Transcript

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[Ben Pickman]

Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by Amazon Business. I'm Ben Pickman.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Ben Pickman]

And today on the show we are on the floor inside Michelob Ultra arena after Game 1 of the 2025 WNBA Finals. An 8986 win by the Las Vegas Aces. A thrilling nail biting win. One of the best openers in recent memory, I would say. Sabrina, we're going to get into everything we saw in this game. But first we're going to start with a little bit of the News of the evening. Kathy Engelberg, WNBA commissioner, addressed the media before Game 1 of the Finals, speaking for the first time since Nafisa Collier's statements criticizing Kathy Engelbert and the league's leadership at large. She talked about a lot of things. So, Sabrina, let's start to get into it. What were the big picture takeaways that you had from Kathy Engelberg's remarks?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, so much of the conversation this week has been about officiating. Nafisa Collier brought it up, saying that the league isn't protecting its players with its standard of officiating. And I think the main thing that Kathy Ingler talked about was in addition to the competition committee looking at the state of refereeing after the end of the season, they are going to institute what she called sort of a state, state of the game officiating task force, you know, which involves players, coaches, stakeholders, referees, all sorts of people who could be involved in this discussion. And I think the most important part of that is that she acknowledged that we are not aligned in how we see the game being officiated. Right. Like what the players want, what the coaches want, what the referees are being told to do is not on the same page. And I think that's what the players wanted to hear. Right. That there was some gap and that the league sees it and that they're going to try to do something about it.

[Ben Pickman]

I'm so glad you pointed that out because that was really the point that we made on our show earlier this week that before you get to today. Right. Yeah, I guess it was Friday's episode. But before you get to, you know, fixing anything as it relates to systemic changes of salaries or trainings or promotions or moving people to the NBA, players just wanted a some acknowledgment that their frustrations were being heard. Executives wanted acknowledgment that their frustrations were being heard. And, you know, Kathy, maybe to her credit, seemed to get ahead of that. I mean, she talked about the state of the game task force in her. The opening of her opening before any of the questions.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right.

[Ben Pickman]

She hadn't taken any questions and she immediately talked about that. So that was, I think, the big kind of, well, I guess newsy change going forward. But what else kind of then caught your ear? Because I think there was a lot in it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right. So we've been very careful when we talked about Nafisa Collier's comments this week to say that she said Kathy Engelbert said these things, and Kathy Engelbert wanted to put on the record that she does not believe. She said a lot of the things that were shared in the FISA. Collier's statement, including one of them, that Caitlin Clark's $16 million of sponsorships are only a result of her fame in the WNBA because of the platform WNBA provides and that the players should be on their knees thinking they're lucky stars for the media rights deal that Kathy Engelbert negotiated. She denied that she said the Caitlin Clark comment and also said that the earlier comment about the thinking youg're lucky stars was social media things on the Internet, not things that I have said.

[Ben Pickman]

What was so interesting too about that was Kathy Albert said that she had been in communication with Nafisa Collier in recent days and that they have a meeting that is scheduled for next week. For next week. And I asked specifically, is it an in person meeting? Is it a virtual meeting? We didn't get any clarity on the specifics of where the meeting will take place. But, you know, there is something, you know, something I'm watching for, I guess, as we learn more about this meeting or hopefully learn more about this meeting, is by Kathy Engelbert saying that she never said when Nafisa Collier said about Caitlin Clark, if that makes any sense.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right.

[Ben Pickman]

You're basically calling Nafisa Collier a liar.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Calling the liar. Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

And that sets up for another tense meeting. Not that it wasn't going to be tense to begin with, considering that Nafisa Collier said that Kathy Engelbert was the worst. One of the worst, or the worst.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Leader, the worst leadership in the world, I believe, is how she framed it. Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

And so we knew it was going to be a tense meeting going in, but for all intents and purposes, like she's been called a liar here and now we have to see how this all plays out.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right. And unfortunately, it's turning into a bit of a she said, she said. So we can't really provide any insight there because we were not part of these conversations between Fee and Kathy Engelbert.

[Ben Pickman]

It was, though, I think, part of Kathy Engelbert's attempt more broadly to take some accountability for herself as a leader. And she talked about her leadership in a number of different ways. She talked about, you know, in the wake of people potentially calling for her resignation and, you know, raising points about should she stay as the leaks commissioner. She said point blank, I'm not a quitter. Like, she's going on 40 years in business, she said. And she was very proud of that.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Seventh season in the wnba, second collective bargaining agreement. She's going to negotiate.

[Ben Pickman]

And she seemed like she has no intention to leave this job anytime soon, or so she said. And when I asked her point blank again if she felt like Adam Silver, who has hiring power and firing power over her, was involved in the CBA negotiation, she said that Adam is still a great supporter of hers, so we'll see how that plays out. But also along the lines of her leadership, she talked about, you know, wanting to be better, needing to be better. I think that was the other piece of accountability that comes out of her press conference. We haven't heard to that degree in public forums before.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Obviously, what happened with Nafisa Collier had to be a little bit humbling for Kathy Engelbert. She mentioned what a tough week it's been for her, for her family. And, you know, this is a different position than we've seen Kathy before. Like, very vulnerable at times in this press conference, understanding that, like, the way she presents herself is not the way that the players have viewed her or appear to view her at this point. All of the comments that have come out this week, not just from Nafisa Collier, but throughout the league, really, and, you know, maybe it sparked a tune change in how she wants to present herself. Maybe it's just some sort of, okay, I have to look inward and figure out how to repair my relationship with these players. But it's was sort of a different tenor than we usually get from Kathy, especially when, like, objectively, there's a lot to celebrate for the league. Right. Like record attendance, viewership tickets, all these sorts of things.

[Ben Pickman]

And it made sense that there was a different tender tenor. Sabrina, because I don't think it's an understatement to say, like, this was one of the most important moments, events that Kathy Unclebert has ever had as commissioner. I mean, I certainly think it was the most highly anticipated press conference.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Absolutely.

[Ben Pickman]

She's ever given. I mean, the amount of people that we had in our respective lives leading into this press conference who sent us texts that were like, how can I watch this?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Where's the streaming? I mean, we had. I mean, I want to say like a half dozen people.

[Sabrina Merchant]

A lot of people. Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Text. How can I watch this press conference? Have you ever gotten.

[Sabrina Merchant]

No. No one has ever wanted to know when a press conference is happening. Like, zero times.

[Ben Pickman]

And it happens an hour before the game and the room itself packed. I mean, we. We should say.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, it was literally standing room only. We're gonna paint the picture for people at home. We have pre game availabilities with both players and coaches. The coaches usually speak around two hours before the and the 90 minutes before. We have this window between 90 to 60 minutes before the game in which players are available to speak. Sabrina, how many players do you think did pregame interviews, if you were going to guess?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I didn't talk to any of them.

[Ben Pickman]

I'm not sure that any players did pregame interviews.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Saving a seat for the Kathy Engel press conference.

[Ben Pickman]

That was really the key that in this press room, which was admittedly like not the biggest press room in the league, but a normal sized press room, nobody wanted to leave the room. Like, everyone tried to reserve their seats because you needed a good seat assignment or a seat placement so that if you wanted to raise your hand and ask a question, you were going to get called on. And that was the priority. It just speaks to how big of a press conference this was for Kathy Engelbert in this moment.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right. And I mean, obviously this doesn't fix anything. Right. She still has this conversation with the piece of Collier. She said she's been in conversations with a lot of players this week, looming over all of this or the collective bargaining negotiations, which the deadline is technically on October 31st. But Kathy talked at length about how she's optimistic about the possibility of an extension because of how negotiations are going. So, you know, still a lot of work to be done. This is just really just another salvo.

[Ben Pickman]

In the conversation and on the cba. We should just say as we tie this up, no real changes that Kathy Engelbert wanted to update us with. I mean, Kelsey Plum earlier this week described the talks still as combative. Said they're far apart. Kathy Engelbert, when she was reflecting on the talk, she used a lot of the same phrases that we have heard her use throughout her public remarks in this whole process, talking about, you know, wanting to increase player salaries, having that be an intention, but also needing to create balance, a balanced profitability and balance.

[Sabrina Merchant]

That owners continue to want to invest in the league.

[Ben Pickman]

Right. And that is things that consistent with what we've heard. She said they are continuing to meet. And she again seemingly acknowledged the possibility of an extension, which with every passing day seems more and more likely.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Absolutely.

[Ben Pickman]

Let's talk about the game. So it is 89, 86, a win by the Las Vegas Aces at home in game one, the first game one in a best of seven format in the 2025 WNB Finals. And this was a real thriller. I mean, 21, 21 after the first quarter for all those who did not tune in it was a five point Mercury lead at halftime. We then saw again the Mercury lead heading into the fourth quarter and the fourth quarter that's been the Mercury's time all postseason long. Nate Tibbets pregame literally said I wish we could start games the way we have closed them.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Which they kind of did, right? They got get off to a 102 start that forces Naysa's timeout. And then their fourth quarter looked a lot like their first quarter. But it is funny that you say that this is like the most exciting Game one in recent memory. We literally had an overtime game in game one of the finals last year. 15 point comeback with the Courtney Williams four point play.

[Ben Pickman]

Ultimate, ultimate revisionist history by me. I apologize. We're not going to redo the intro because you know it's revisionist history. We're in the moment here. But that is a great point by you. But look, that just speaks to how exciting this one was. And then in the fourth quarter I'll just map it out. Big picture, a 2215 margin by the Las Vegas Aces and this really did come down to the end. Alyssa Thomas had a pair of free throws. The Phoenix Mercury forward with 24.6 seconds remaining went to the line having forced a steal of Asia Wilson. If she would have made both of those free throws, she would have given Phoenix a lead. She did not make one. She did not make the second. And the Aces then made some free throws to tack it on and end up winning again by three points. So Sabrina, big picture before we get into some of the granular things we saw and heard, biggest takeaway from Game one for you is what I mean.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We talked about crunch time execution heading into this. I think on the preview that we wrote on the side on the Athletic on Friday, like the X factor I listened was who's going to win the battle for crunch time? Because the Aces have been very hit or miss in crunch time during the postseason and Phoenix worker have been excellent. Like to the point where Nate Tibbets even felt comfortable bringing it up because he was that confident in how they'd been playing in the fourth quarters. And there was just a lack of discipline by the Mercury in that fourth quarter. And you see Satu Sablee get a technical foul after she picks up her fifth foul just like slamming the ball up. And immediately you saw Alyssa Thomas come right up to her and be like what are you doing right? You see little defensive miscues like Dewana Bonner sinking in too much on help and leaving open three pointers. The Missed free throws. Right. Just a lot of little details that you think the Mercury had been better at over the course of these playoffs. That just came home to roost again.

[Ben Pickman]

And we should say like all postseason long we have been asking other people have been asking about the Phoenix Mercury experience and there are certainly players on this team who are our experience. Right. Alyssa Thomas has played in finals before.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Sammy Whitcomb, two time champion, dejana Bonner. Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Also won championships. But like I think the saw two technical foul in the fourth quarter is a perfect example because I mean, it was on a defensive foul, right. That was the play that led to it. And she slams the ball and that's a free point. And guess what, like if you don't give that point to the Las Vegas Aces, then suddenly Alyssa Thomas goes to the line and you're not trailing, you're tied.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You don't have to foul. Exactly.

[Ben Pickman]

It's a totally different game every possession. All the details really are magnified in the playoffs. It is such a cliche, but it is so true. And those little adjustments, those little plays, like they add up and I mean.

[Sabrina Merchant]

It'S an edge that the Aces have had over the Mercury all season. This is the third time this season that they've won a game against Phoenix by exactly three points. It just feels like an advantage that they've just been building on. And you can look at all of the chemistry that Phoenix has developed over the course of the season. It's still not exactly what Vegas has, you know, the advantage they've built over the last five years with this core.

[Ben Pickman]

I think, I mean, you mentioned the core. The big takeaway for me though, it was not about the core today. This game was about the bench. It was about Dana Evans who scores 21 points in 26 minutes. It was about Jewel Lloyd, who we thought heading into the season would be part of the core, but she has moved to the bench and she had a starring role today. She's a point starter. She's basically a starter. But you know, coming off the bench, 18 points, I think, you know, eight field goals made. I mean, a super impressive performance by Jewel Lloyd. And it was especially impressive because number one, the Vegas bench outscored the Mercury bench 41 to 16. And number two, and Becky Hammond said this post game that she felt like Asia Wilson a little fatigued.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Jackie Young a little fatigued after their Game 5 win on Tuesday. And so to get the win in the manner of which they did with the play of Evans and Lloyd in particular, knowing that, you know, you didn't have your best stuff necessarily from Asia and Jackie, like that counts. That means a lot.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, you only need to get to four wins, right? And this is one of them. And we had discussed fatigue ahead of time. You know, Nate Tibbetts had talked about it where they had been off since Sunday, having one Game 4 in Phoenix, didn't have to travel, you know, back to Minnesota for a game five. They have the two extra days off. And he said he didn't know when that extra energy was going to show itself, whether it was going to be in game one, maybe in game two, because it's a short turnaround with an afternoon game on Sunday. But like the fatigue, we felt it on Las Vegas and it just sort of happened that Dana Evans and Jewel Lloyd were able to pick up the slack for Asia and Jackie.

[Ben Pickman]

Dana Evans Evans was really the one of the stars of post game media. Evans some of the things that came up and came out. Becky Hammond calls her gears, right?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Which wrote about during the semifinals. If you read that story where she had a great game in game three against why Gears? Because she, you know, shifty, you know, gets into a lot of different gears.

[Ben Pickman]

And just like plays the case all gas. You know, Asia Wilson used the phrase of Dana Evans calling her our battery. So we have, yeah, a lot of.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Auto metaphors, you know, whatever.

[Ben Pickman]

It came up that Dana Evans on, I guess Thursday was all the days are blending together. Dean Evans had totally lost her voice. You could barely hear her speak and she wasn't exactly sure why. And she gave this amazing quote talking about how God wasn't going to let.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Her not have her voice for the final.

[Ben Pickman]

I mean an all time great quote considering the performance that she also just.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Watching Asia Wilson react to all of this in real time is really lovely. If you have a chance to just go watch that press conference on league pass afterwards. Worth worth the wait.

[Ben Pickman]

And Becky Hammond also referenced the shooting drill that they do called Spurs 100. It's a, you know, a spot shooting drill. And she said that Dana Evans is like the best highest score ever done at it. And I asked Becky Hammond post game what was Dana Evans score? And it hap. I asked that question as Dana and Asia were walking into the press conference and Becky was like trying to remember the score. And she looked at Dana and was like, this is the mid-90s, right? And Dana turned over to Becky goes, no, it was 80, 89, 86. I mean an unbelievable moment post game. It just speaks to the vibes. Were great vibes.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Are always good with Las Vegas, win or lose. Dana Evans, you know, we talk about all of the champ of experience on this team. She did win a title in 2021 with the Chicago Sky. She was a rookie on that team in mid season acquisition. She only scored 15 points during that entire postseason. 21 points today in game one.

[Ben Pickman]

Wow. Do you think we see more of the Phoenix Mercury bench going forward? I mean, we saw Dana Bonner, she scored 10 points. Sammy Whitcomb ends up playing 22, 23 minutes. Though she briefly went to the locker room. It was interesting. I mean they've trusted Cat West Belt all year long. She started, I want to say 20 plus games for them and is now a steady reserve. She plays just five minutes. I don't know if Cat West Belt is necessarily the difference, but I thought it was interesting. Game one right off the bat, when normally you see a coach kind of be more open to trying things out.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Usually shorten the rotation as a series goes along.

[Ben Pickman]

Right for him to cut West Bell's minute in game one. I thought that that was something that caught my, my ear.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. Westfall's been a little hit or miss in the rotation. I feel like her ability to guard Asia Wilson is, I don't want to say non existent, but it's tough. It's a tough assignment. And I think they felt better about their switching lineup with Dewana Bonner at the nominal 5 or Natasha Mack playing center. I honestly thought that maybe they went to the bench a little too much. I think I would have rather seen some more Monica Kwame Connie instead of Dewana Bonner. Just given how much Bonner was struggling with the Evans assignment. A lot of those buckets that you saw Dana Evans hit were like in transition with Bonner failing to match up or Evans blowing by Bonner. Yeah, it wasn't a great performance for her. I know Nate said that like we don't get to the finals, that Duana Botter hitting those three threes in game four, but like she hadn't been in anything before that. And I wonder if we're just in another stretch where like how long can you wait for Dewana Bonner's veteran moment to come through before you, you know, turn to more Cat Westfeld or the other players on this roster.

[Ben Pickman]

And that was some of Dejuana Bonner's defensive struggles. But I think we should also talk about what the Las Vegas Aces did on the defensive end because that was again one of the other storylines coming out of this game because much like many high school Teams around the country. I'll use that analogy. The Phoenix Mercury struggled to go up against a 2, 3 zone in the second half.

[Sabrina Merchant]

The funniest thing about his own defense and professional basketball, like, because it is not the most common thing. You see, you're so used to seeing, man, that someone throws out a zone for like, three minutes and you just forget that. Like, oh, you just need to, like, get the ball in the middle of the floor and, like, work out of the high post. You know, it's just the basic principles that everybody knows about how to deal with a zone just elude their minds when they see it in a professional basketball game.

[Ben Pickman]

And you never know, like, they'll watch the film. I'm sure they'll adjust. They're playing in front of a raucous environment. The crowd was super, super into it, super, super loud in game one. Maybe that makes it harder to make reads right when you're just having to go past, past, past. But the reason they went to the zone, it clogs up the middle. It forces Phoenix out of the middle of the floor. And the Aces trusted their guards, their wings to sprint out on shooters. And we saw Phoenix just 14 of 36 on three pointers. And the zone was one of the big defensive adjustments that the Aces made. And it really did pay off.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I mean, Alyssa Thomas is basically just living in the middle of the lane. That inverted pick and roll that worked so well against New York, works well against Minnesota, is working very well in the first half against Las Vegas. And the Aces were just like, all right, we're just gonna have to make some compromises here. And they weren't rebounding the ball particularly well anyway, so you can afford to go small. That keeps St. Evans on the floor. Melissa Smith was in foul trouble regardless, so they couldn't really play big. Just a lot of. A lot of reasons to go to his own. I don't expect it to be a thing. That's going to come up a lot more in the series because, again, like, once you look at the adjustments, Phoenix will figure out how to beat one of the most basic defenses in basketball. But you got to get four wins, right? And this is one of them. And the zone is a big part of that.

[Ben Pickman]

Before we look ahead in even more depth, one more moment on E.T. how do you just think about her game? You know, a near triple double, 15, 10 and nine. But she has this golden opportunity to tie the game and potentially win the game, and it slips out of her hands. When you step back and you evaluate her whole performance. What, what sticks out in your mind?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I think about game one of the New York series in the first round where AT has point blank layup at the end of regulation to win and she misses it. They go into overtime, they end up losing that game. And Alyson Hamas says, that's a shot that I can make. It's a shot that I'm going to make. And what do they do? They win the next two games. They've lost game one against Minnesota. What do they do to win the next three games? So this is not an unfamiliar position for the Mercury, not an unfamiliar position for Alyssa Thomas. Obviously you want to come out with a win, but I think they feel confident in the overall body of work they put together to not like hang their head after this loss.

[Ben Pickman]

What did our colleague Marcus Thompson ask Kalia Copper after? I mean, I think, do you need.

[Sabrina Merchant]

To say anything to at?

[Ben Pickman]

And what did she say? Something like, nah, we're good, we're good. Like, we're good. Like that. That is the message for at. They didn't see him too concerned post game, but you mentioned it. And I think we've harked on this theme a few times and I think I'm going to anticipate what you're going to say about this. The importance of you only need four in this series. And in my mind, for, you know, as formidable a foe that Phoenix was, if you would have told me pre game one that they were going to get 19 points from Sabley, a near triple double from at that Kalia Copper was going to score 21. She was going to hit 19 in the first half, 19 in the first half. And that on the other end of the fort, Asia was just going to have 21 and 10, Jackie was going to have 10 and Chelsea was going to have eight points. You would have said, who wins that.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Game feels like the game Phoenix wins.

[Ben Pickman]

Feels like a game that Phoenix wins. And the reality is, of course, that they did not win this game. So if you were the Phoenix Mercury, what adjustments do you want to make and how really do you think they should feel knowing that this game was right there for them to take Again.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think you just have to flush it right. Like they've been in this situation before where they've been right there with New York in game one. They were right there with Minnesota, Minnesota before a brief flurry in the fourth quarter of that semifinal game. And they feel confident in their ability to bounce back. Right. Like, I don't think you look at this game and say There are so many things we need to fix. Right. Like they just need to be a little bit tighter defensively. A little bit, I want to say, more patient on the offensive end. Right. I think they rushed some shots in the fourth quarter. Like there was actually this one hilarious sequence in the fourth where Satu takes the three off of sort of a loose ball, immediately gets the rebound and Nate is like waving his hands on the bench like, bring it out, slow it down, like we're rushing it. And she just immediately shoots again, ends up making the three. But it's just like indicative of the whole process in that fourth quarter where they, they just didn't have the right decision making mindset. And I think like they feel good about their ability to fix that. Again, you say you only need four, but like it's a lot more than three or two. Right. Like there are opportunities to get to four. Right. So losing one is not as detrimental as it would be in a five game or three game series.

[Ben Pickman]

If I'm Phoenix.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Sorry, that was really bad math. I apologize for just.

[Ben Pickman]

I think it starts on the defensive end because I think that was, was one of the big observations we had in the first half. Not a lot of defense was fun. Very fun, but not a lot of defense. They forced just five turnovers from the Las Vegas Aces players. And Phoenix is a team that likes to get out and run. They like to push the pace and transition. You know, defense frees them up on the offensive end and they're very open about that. It really does free up Alyssa Thomas on the offensive end to get downhill, to use her physicality and strength to draw fouls, to frustrate opponents. That's a big reason why they are so successful. The ace is having five turnovers. I mean, it prevents Phoenix from getting free points, getting easy baskets. I think that will, you know, the aggressiveness on defense has to be important for Phoenix going forward.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I mean, live ball turnovers are so important to what Phoenix does getting out in transition. I think they'll also be mindful of their own turnovers because they just threw some really terrible passes against the zone that got Las Vegas out and going. So. Yeah, but again, like, I don't think any of these things are like dramatic where Phoenix looks at this game and thinks, we are not capable of playing with the Aces. Right now we're at a point where they've lost all four games against Las Vegas that Asia Wilson has played in this year. I'm like, maybe that's a mental thing. But they reversed it against Minnesota. Right. A very good regular season team. And again, they have a longer Runway here to get back in the series.

[Ben Pickman]

Against Las Vegas, but we'll see. Like, I know we're going to keep working on it. Like, this was a golden opportunity for the Phoenix Mercury. And I think we were very high on them coming in and I think, you know, their experience, their lack of cohesion together, maybe it shines through a little bit in this moment. Right. Just two returning players on last year's team to this year's team. It's the fewest in NBA or WNBA Finals history for a team who's ever made a Finals by a significant margin. And, you know, maybe the lack of experience in this moment comes through in game one, which just.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think the lack of experience kind of comes through with your coaching staff. Right. Like, this is Nate Tibbett's first postseason run. Really. I mean, they had two games in the playoffs last year and now he's going through the finals. He straight up admitted, like, I should have called the timeout on that last possession when we weren't getting the right look. I should have run out to half court and gotten one without six seconds left. Instead, Phoenix just throws up like a prayer from Savoli and they don't get a good shot.

[Ben Pickman]

So frustrating. Can you imagine being a Phoenix Mercury fan? You play so close so well all game long and then you get a nothing look in the final possession. And you just got to learn quick though, right?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Any other big picture thoughts? I feel like we, you know, hit most of the big takeaways from what was a very exciting. Not the most exciting anymore. I'm going to revise it now that we've reached the end of the show, but an exciting in game one nevertheless.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. Just based on how Phoenix and Vegas have played together during the regular season. Again, admittedly, all Aces wins. I do think that this bodes well for a really good series. And nothing from game one changes my mind about that.

[Ben Pickman]

Well, you've mentioned the idea of Phoenix needing to flush this game. Guess what? Game two is coming very quickly, folks. It will be at 3:00pm Eastern Time.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We are on Pacific time. We can say noon Pacific time.

[Ben Pickman]

As an east coaster, east coast time zone person, we're still going to go 3:00pm Eastern, noon Pacific.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, local time in Las Vegas at noon. It's a. It's a vibe. You're gonna want to pay attention.

[Ben Pickman]

We'll see what the crowd. What are we expecting for the crowd on the noon Pacific game?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Probably as good as it was today.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, like a little. People who got like a boozy brunch and then are coming in the arena from the casino or you can't even.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Have brunch before a new game. You just gotta get in.

[Ben Pickman]

Well, we shall see what the crowd brings. Safe bet. It is going to be loud yet again for game two. And Sabrina, I think that is all we have for everyone today. We will be back back in your feeds after game two when we react to all things we see and hear in game two and look ahead to game three, which is a crazy thing to say, but this series is moving fast. Don't forget our cadence has changed during this series. During the finals, we'll be dropping an episode for you after every single game. So look out for those. And also please follow us on our Instagram page. We are posting a lot of behind the scenes content ta no off season are great. Social producer Bri is here just working so hard for us, producing great content for us. So you'll get a lot of behind the scenes. Both of press conferences, both of us, both of players. You'll you'll see it all. Stay tuned to all of that and wherever you're listening once you follow us on Instagram, please follow our show too. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe as always and tell your friends to check us out. While you're at it, drop us a rating, drop a comment. We'd love to hear from you. And of course head on over to our partner at the Yahoo Sports Hub for more content at Sports Yahoo. On behalf of the Athletics, Sabrina Merchant, I am Ben Pickman. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time.

[Zena Cato]

No Off Season is hosted by Zena Cato with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of Women's production Basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights and Support [e-mail] Morning Zoe Got Donuts.

[Suchi Srinivasan]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Suchi Srinivasan]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Sabrina Merchant]

Nice.

[Suchi Srinivasan]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Ben Pickman]

Plus with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for launch?

[Suchi Srinivasan]

Dude, my work here is done.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credits ended balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto paypals, taxes and fees required. Best mobile Network in the US based on analysis by Ookla Speed Test Intelligence data 1H2025 is@t mobile.com if I waited.

[Sabrina Merchant]

For permission, I never would have started it. I know what I know. I can't give up. It is a study in social movements that we are experiencing right now. You know when in 10 to 15 years you'll say, oh, these are the new defining leaders.

[Suchi Srinivasan]

I'm Suchi Srinivasan.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And I'm Camila Rakimova. We are the hosts of In Her Element, a podcast by bcg. We bring you the voices of extraordinary women and their allies who are pushing business and technology forward.

[Suchi Srinivasan]

Listen now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.