← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
All-Access with Cal's Charmin Smith and Marta Suárez plus NCAA surprises
01:06:27
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- [00:01]
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- [01:20]
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- [03:42]
Zena Keda
There to watch them.
- [03:43]
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- [04:49]
Zena Keda
Foreign for the Athletic I'm Zena Ka and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to another edition of the Athletic All Access, where we get to tap in with some influential voices around the world of women's basketball. Before we dive in, let me do my job and make sure that you guys are subscribed to this show wherever you get your pods because you don't want to Miss out on really cool conversations like the one you're about to hear. Be excited, folks. We got some college basketball folks in the building. California Bears, stand up coach Charman Smith and her player, Marta Suarez. Now, Coach Smith, you have joined our, like our show before, but I still want to make sure that everyone knows who we're talking about. Six year head coach for the California Golden Bears women's basketball program. They won 19 games in the 2023, 2024 season and they've already hit that mark. They're 194 this year and currently ranked 21 on the AP poll. You're an award winning coach. You're a former professional player, former collegiate player at a school in the, you know, nor Cal area. We won't talk about today. And you're also an active board member. And since it's Black History Month, it's important to note you're also the first black head coach of the women's basketball program at Cal Berkeley. Welcome back. The show, Charmin Smith.
- [06:26]
Charmin Smith
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
- [06:28]
Zena Keda
Of course, of course. And then we also, we've got Marta Suarez in the building, a senior on the Cal Bears women's program coming all the way. And I want to make sure I say this right. Oviedo. Oviedo, Spain. Okay, perfect. I don't want to, I don't want to embarrass myself here and currently doing her thing on the program. We're going to talk a little bit more about your game, Marta, throughout the course of this conversation, but welcome to the Athletic women's basketball show for the very first time.
- [06:57]
Marta Suarez
Thank you.
- [06:58]
Zena Keda
Of course, of course. Okay, so we gotta jump right in because right now, Coach Smith, I'm gonna start with you as we're recording this. 19 and 5 or 19 4. I think it's 19 and 4 from what I'm seeing. Yeah, 19 and 4. When did you realize that this team had taken a step and that this team was special?
- [07:24]
Charmin Smith
Yeah, I felt like, you know, this team was special when we came together in the summer and just heard, you know, how they were talking and their buy in and their commitment to holding each other accountable and wanting this year to be different. So I felt like we were special. And then as we moved into non conference play and you know, had some good wins for us, you know, over Auburn, over Alabama, over Gonzaga, over Arizona, you know, were games where we didn't necessarily pull those out last year and it really felt different. And I was like, okay, you guys, we're doing things we haven't done before. This is going to be a special season. And, you know, we're just working to continue, committed to doing the work to help us accomplish our goals, which is making the NCAA Tournament.
- [08:13]
Zena Keda
Marta, I gotta ask from your perspective, because it's one thing from a coach to see the whole vision and what your team is capable of, but you being on this team, having seen the growth of this team, when did you realize you guys might have a different outcome in the way that you're playing this season?
- [08:31]
Marta Suarez
Nah, I agree with coach. I think from the summer, showing the depth that we had. So in the incoming freshman class, how they were playing, how they were ready, and then kind of like the chemistry of the team, it gave us a good feeling. I have to say, though, I think I have a great memory of the Gonzaga game. The way that we showed up, the way that we. We took care of it, we stick to the game plan. It just kind of. It was kind of like that. That reassurance of like, oh, no, like, we for real, like, we can do this. And especially Agdon Zaga. That's a tough crowd. That's a tough court.
- [09:05]
Sabrina Merchant
And.
- [09:05]
Marta Suarez
And we showed up and we played good defense and. And I think that game was. Was kind of like a click of like, okay, like, let's lock in. Like, we have this.
- [09:13]
Zena Keda
I love that.
- [09:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, for me, I think it was the Michigan State game, which I realized you guys ended up losing, but just the way you came out, especially for those first three quarters, it was like, okay, well, there's something here that I don't remember seeing in recent years of Cal.
- [09:25]
Charmin Smith
Yeah, that's. I think that's a great point. You know, we. We really wanted that game, but to be playing at that level against, you know, a top 25 opponent, I think that. That, you know, spoke volumes as well.
- [09:37]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, you mentioned just the. The chemistry that you felt over the summer, and you brought in a couple of really impactful transfers during this off season. Kayla Williams, Jada Noble. It's funny, you had Mikayla Williams last year, so I almost confused myself that it wasn't exactly a transfer. But with. With Kayla and Jada, have you seen from the two of them that sort of, I don't know, has helped supercharge what you guys have?
- [09:59]
Charmin Smith
Well, I think, you know, the portal is. Is just really interesting in that you can. You can get it really right or you can get it really wrong? And those are examples, like, the people that we got out of the portal, they were the perfect fits for what we needed. And I think you also Saw that, you know, with. With Martha and yo. It's like I told Kayla and Jada exactly what their roles would be, and it's about opportunity. Right? They saw that there were things that we needed on this team that they could do. With Leilani leaving, you know, this was a perfect opportunity for Kayla to come in and be a starting point guard. You know, after being at usc, where they had a ton of pieces, and then Jada, like, we needed her defensive presence and her intensity level, and they've really filled in some voids that we had. And then I'll let Martha speak to just who they are as teammates and people and what they've added in that area for the team.
- [10:51]
Marta Suarez
Yeah, I think I. I always end up bringing it up, but I think the coaches did a great job of figuring out not only what we need on the court, because obviously, for example, it was very clear that we needed a point guard, but they're very careful about our culture and the type of people then bring in and the. The chemistry of the team. And that's something that we had a lot of talks about last year, and then coming into this year, it just kind of translated. Also, Natalia Ackerman from transfer from. What is she talking about?
- [11:19]
Charmin Smith
Slow.
- [11:20]
Marta Suarez
It doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter. She was, like, a late addition to the program that, you know, she just kind of came out of the sudden and then ends up bringing us great, important minutes in very big games this year, so. And then turns out to be, like, one of my best friends now. You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest part of it, just how they took care of the culture, not just what we need on the court, but then what are the type of people they're bringing in? Like, what is Berkeley about? What is this team about and taking care of?
- [11:50]
Zena Keda
Listen, Natalie, if you're listening, Martha said, you're with us. Don't matter what you had in your past. You're a part of us. I respect that. I respect that. I think one of the coolest things you guys are talking about is fit. And I'm hearing the words culture. I'm hearing chemistry. It's interesting. I was talking to Brooke Wykoff at fsu, and I was like, who's got who? On the amount of international players, she was like, I think Charmin's got me at Cal with at least five. And then when you think about the representation you guys have on both coasts and you add in Hawaii, there's a lot there in terms of different cultures. Styles of play. Um, and I. I'm curious, like, how you guys get all of those cultures to mend together, not only on the court, but off the court in terms of maybe playing style, in terms of approach to your. Your everyday preparation. I think it's really cool when you have a melting pot. And I was very curious from a coach perspective, what you've seen in the way that you folded these players and their styles in, and then also from a player perspective, what it looks like, maybe in the locker room or on the bus.
- [12:50]
Charmin Smith
Yeah, I think, you know, we really try to do a great job as a staff to find the right basketball fits, and then we think we know what type of people we have. Right. But, you know, Martha's right. I told this group last spring, like, you guys are going to decide. And when people come on their official visits, our players have the final word. And if they say, eh, and like, we can't go with it, you know, but she's really, really good. And if they, like, then we got to move on. Right? And I remember Tali, Martha's roommate, It was, like, really late. She was, aug, August transfer. And I was like, we need you, but the players have to sign off on you. And they were like, are we getting tally does until you're coming? Are we getting telling? I was like, hey, they say thumbs up, so let's do this thing right? So I think that really helps in Berkeley. We talk about people being perfectly Berkeley, you know, because this is a unique place, and it's going to attract unique individuals. And, you know, my coaching style, who I am, my personality, that's going to attract a certain type of person as well. And it's made for a very. Yeah, like, eclectic type of group. We're very diverse, and I love how inclusive they are. They care about one another, they support one another. And I do think that adds to a great chemistry on the floor as well.
- [14:02]
Marta Suarez
Yeah, I mean, that's what I was gonna say, too. Like, we're in Berkeley. Like, it doesn't get much more diverse. I think the team is also a reflection of that. You know, a bunch of people that we care about our future, we care about our academics, we care about diversity, we care about learning about each. I think it's very fun. I think we always have conversations about language and what did you watch when you were younger? What was on tv? Like, you know, all that stuffy things. And then I think music is also a huge part of this team. How we kind of, like, figured out, like, oh, like, there's this. All this type of music that we can listen to because we expose each other to that. But at the same time, I think it was such, like an organic process just because of. We're all people that we really care about basketball, but we understand also the importance of everything else in life. Life. And we have people that are very passionate about very different things outside of basketball and how. How much we care about it, how much we encourage each other about it. There's so many artists in this team this year and people that like TikTok things and. And how we kind of like, kind of like make a space for everybody to. To try to be themselves, which I think it's. It's what Berkeley is pretty much. And. And so I think it just happened very organically like that.
- [15:19]
Sabrina Merchant
There's so many things. I want to follow up on what you just said, but I'm going to start with who gets to be the DJ in the locker room or do you guys spread the.
- [15:26]
Zena Keda
Sabrina, we are on the same page. That was my exact question I wanted to ask. Thank you. That's exactly what I want to know. Who's DJing?
- [15:34]
Marta Suarez
Well, I got to say, at the beginning of the season, G, she. She was. She. She likes to be on Knox, but she likes her like very slow R and B. Like, she like her sad music. So sometimes we gotta be like, at the weight room. We gotta like, you know, step it back. But honestly, anybody, because we'll. I'm telling you, we play anything, like, you'll walk into practice and we'll have Michael Jackson one day. We got Latino music the other day, and then we'll have like some Greek rap all of a sudden. So I think that's a very cool. Having been in a lot of, like different college teams usually there's usually a couple people that take over the aux very easily and they're like, they're designated in this team. It's just whoever, you know, steps in first. And we tend to be very supportive of that. Like, whatever's up, it's. You know what I mean?
- [16:21]
Zena Keda
Cardi B. It's up and it's stuck. No joke. Hell, look at that.
- [16:26]
Marta Suarez
I'm not gonna lie.
- [16:29]
Zena Keda
Oh, that makes me so happy. I'm so happy that you asked that. Sabrina, I'm gonna follow up on one of the aspects you talked about being artists because we hear you're an artist and I've definitely seen the work that Jada on your team has done in terms of being an artist as well. I think I first heard. Saw her shoes with Jewel Lloyd. And I was like, oh, okay. Like. And then she did your whole team's shoes. Talk a little bit about the artistry on your team and maybe this exhibit that you guys are planning.
- [17:00]
Marta Suarez
Oh, yeah, yeah. Actually, Jada's shoes are on gold right now. Jordan Poole was wearing them a couple days ago. Yes, big time.
- [17:09]
Zena Keda
That's awesome.
- [17:11]
Marta Suarez
But no, I think I've always been an artist. I've always been really into art. But having Jada in the team this year, we connected last year, just on the base of we played against each other, and I saw her shoes, saw her art, and we kind of connected like that. You can ask Charmin. The moment I saw she was in the transfer portal, I was like, yo, Charmin. I was like, we're right here. We're right here. It's been great having her. I think just how the team is always supportive of who we are. And then her coming in, she gave me a lot of confidence in just sharing my art. Like, I've always been into that, but I was never as public about it or curious about it. I think she was a great motivator for me. Then we also have Gabby, the freshman. She loves music. She does all type of art. Like, she's a fashionista. She's great individual. You guys will get to know her a little bit more with the years. But, yeah, I just think that the space that we have in this team and again, what I talked about Berkeley to just kind of like, express ourselves. The coach is giving Jada the opportunity to create shoes for everybody. But then, for example, now we have. We had the pink game, and we have these warm up shares that we all customize. Now they're in action right in auction right now, by the way, for cancer research. It is kind of that space, that opportunity. Also, like Charmaine, we've been, like, having, like, we have this old locker room right now that we're trying to. We're trying to invest in to create a new one. But until then, Charmin was like, yo, you two can do art. Like, go ahead, do your thing. So now Jade and I are just doing graffiti art and just kind of like messing with the walls. It just. It kind of speaks to that what I. What I talk about. Like, we're a group of people that we care a lot about basketball, but we're aware of the importance of. Of everything else in it, you know? And. Yeah, so soon. Sometime. Sometime soon, the day will drop. But there's going to be an art exhibit soon that will showcase a bunch of Jada S And I art for people in the base who come through and check it out.
- [19:11]
Zena Keda
I will absolutely be checking that out. That's super cool.
- [19:14]
Sabrina Merchant
It's interesting that you mentioned fashionista, too, because when I think of Berkeley, I think of Christina Niigue, and she, like, designs for so many of the WNBA players now. So I guess it's just the culture that you guys have built there, right?
- [19:25]
Marta Suarez
Like, it might be. It might be.
- [19:27]
Charmin Smith
Yeah.
- [19:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah.
- [19:28]
Charmin Smith
I have, like, two boxes of Christine's clothes that I tried on, and I'm like, okay, I want this. I want this. I want this. So I know she's busy right now overseas, but I'm hoping to be able to wear some of her items during some games as well.
- [19:40]
Zena Keda
Oh, that's so cool.
- [19:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, yeah, that'd be really cool. Oh, man. It's just, again, so many things I want to follow up on, but Zena mentioned this earlier how international your team is. And, Martha, I'm just wondering, how did you end up coming to the United States and wanting to play basketball here with your background?
- [19:57]
Marta Suarez
That's a good question. I think the biggest thing, especially for Europeans or internationals, is the opportunity that the States has to combine a great education with a super high level of basketball, of competitive sports in whatever sports it is. For example, in Spain, it's growing, but, for example, women's basketball is not as big still, so it's very hard to do both. We don't have that kind of, like, college era. You just jump straight into the pro. So sometimes it's hard to combine the both of us. For me, was that the opportunity to do both education and basketball at the highest level, then obviously, the opportunity to learn English and. And also, I don't know, like, just flying across the ocean, it just gives you, like, a certain level of maturity, like, a certain level of experience. I think it goes a long way. Something that maybe I did not realize as a freshman, but as a senior, I sure do. But it was. Yeah, it's just a great opportunity to do the both of us. The both of them, you know, education and basil. I think that's another reason that internationals. We. We found Berkeley such an attractive place because we may have a little. We may give a little more value than some Americans do to. To that academic aspect of it. Like UC Berkeley, you know, it's a powerhouse of. Of education in the world right now, so. So we appreciate that, and we definitely value that.
- [21:21]
Zena Keda
Yeah, it has a reputation of being the best public school in. In the United States. I do have to follow up on this because I hear that if I was to go to Spain, which I'm actually going in May to Barcelona.
- [21:34]
Marta Suarez
Oh, really?
- [21:34]
Zena Keda
I am. I'm going to Barcelona. I should go to Aviedo to get milk.
- [21:40]
Marta Suarez
That's funny. Yeah. My home state. I think a lot of people know that I grew up in a, in a dairy farm. Lots of cows, lots of very country. And not a lot of people realize that. I think people miss a city girl very easily. I just adapted very quickly to the bay.
- [21:57]
Zena Keda
Does the dairy farm have anything to do with the strength you have to get rebounds? I'm just curious.
- [22:01]
Charmin Smith
Guess.
- [22:03]
Marta Suarez
I think so. I, I generally think so. I think my stubbornness and, and my resilience. Coach can tell. Can talk a little bit more about that. I think it definitely comes from the fire. I take a lot of pride in that. And you know, I, I, it's in a different spot right now. But growing up, like, I remember, like seeing like my grandma fell down and broke both of her ankles and just drove herself to the hospital after running a couple errands. You know what I mean? I come from a culture, very tough women, very, very strong personality women. Like, nobody's gonna say nothing to my grandma. Nobody was gonna say nothing to my mom. And I think it's definitely translated into my game and into the way I am. And coach can definitely agree with that.
- [22:50]
Zena Keda
I love this. I love this. I love this heritage of you ain't gonna say nothing to me running through your blood. No, this is great. I mean, this is what they talk about in terms of just women playing sports in general. It's huge. And I know Coach Charman, this is something that you, you really rally around when it comes to just women in leadership and supporting other coaches and teams in general. And you have referenced this several times about your team, that there is a leadership on this team and this version of the Cal team that you haven't seen in previous iterations. What does that look like in practice? What are some examples of that leadership that you've seen of your team this year that really have stood out to you?
- [23:31]
Charmin Smith
Yeah, I think, you know, what it looks like for me and how it translates is that I get to do a lot less. Right. Because they're stepping up and holding each other accountable and, you know, they're bought in and they're saying what the standard is and what they want for their team. And we know that player led teams are, you know, the best teams out there. You know, if I have to do most of the pulling and tugging, we're not going to be as successful as we can be. So, you know, Martha, you know, we need dogs on this team. And what she's describing, you know, I'm like, yeah, you're a dog. Like, you have that mentality. Ain't nobody going tell you nothing. I know what I can do. I'm gonna go out here and do it right. We need that dog mentality, and we have dogs, and we have, you know, people that are going to say, hey, no, this is how we do it. You know, when you have five freshmen and four transfers, that's nine new people. And I think our veterans did a really good job with yo and Lou and Martha and Michelle being like, okay, this is what we want Cal basketball to be. This is how we're going to get it done. And credit to the nine newcomers, they were like, all right, we got you, you. Let's go. And so it's been a really strong team effort in terms of having this leadership that has gotten us to this position where we are right now looking, you know, hopefully staring at the NCAA tournament.
- [24:42]
Zena Keda
I was just going to ask you how you mix, actually, the vets and the youth, because Martha, as you mentioned, talking from the international perspective, we had one Austrian player on my team, and she was all of our ages, but I could have sworn she was 10 years older. Like, there was something about Varenna that was just, like, so much more mat in the way that she approached the game. And it's true, she had already represented Austria at the age of 18. You already played for Spain in the FIBA World Cup. How do you mix the veteranship on this team with the youth and being able to balance the two out.
- [25:18]
Marta Suarez
Marta it happened very organically. Sometimes I shock myself with how willing the freshmen are, like. Like, they're very easy to receive information. You can go to them and be like, hey, I think when you box out, hit them this way. And they're very. They're very, very good receivers of that message. They're always looking me. They. They always shake their head. So I think definitely, like, giving them their credit as. As being smart young women. And sometimes you can tell. Sometimes especially. But it's usually like, bass moments, locker room moments, when you be talking about boys, when we talk about certain things that you're like, oh, yeah, I forgot your child. But it's happened. But it's, you know, it's a fun part. It's a very fun time, fun part of it. And again, like you said, it has nothing to do with age. We have draws our Greek Anastasia, our Greek, she's, I think she's 19 right now. She's a redshirt freshman. She seems like she's 42 years old. She's the most mature woman on the team. And then, you know, we have Michelle that sometimes you don't know. You don't know. Sometimes she's a lab ride that, you know, has a brain of a 50 year old scientist and then sometimes she acts like a 4 year old. So I think that that's that fun and that that safe space that we create, I think it just translates very organically.
- [26:47]
Charmin Smith
Yeah, I, I think that's, you hit it on the head. Like we've got people that, that oh someday their age, you know, you'd question it, but it works. And I think, you know, how do we get the buy in with all the newcomers? I think we do have to give a lot of credit to like, you know, Kayla and Jada in particular. Like, we kind of knew them when, you know, usc, Washington, I feel like they had a good sense for Cal as well. They'd watched us, they played against us, so I think their transition is a little bit easier.
- [27:18]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [27:18]
Charmin Smith
Just kind of knowing what Cal is all about from a basketball perspective. And it's been fun, you know, I'm really proud that we have such a good chemistry. And I told them like early on, okay, it's the summer now. Now y'all say we got excellent chemistry. It better be like this in November, better be like this in December. Right? And we're into February and it still feels the same. So, you know, knock on wood. I'm really proud of this group and I do think it's something that we've never had before. In my tenure as head coach, it's.
- [27:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Been a really interesting year just nationally in college basketball with all of the realignment. Like, I know you mentioned Kayla and Jada, I know you well because of playing each other in the west coast, but like those conferences don't exist anymore. So I'm wondering, like, how has it been moving to the ACC? What differences do you notice between the ACC and the PAC 12?
- [28:06]
Charmin Smith
It's been crazy. I mean, just from a coaching perspective, like every game is essentially like a non conference game. Like we've never seen you before, you know, and, and so in the scouting and preparation we started in the summer, you know, trying to prepare and know, like, are we going to be pressed? Did people play zone in this conference? Like, what the heck do y'all do? You know? And it's also been really thrilling and exciting. To like, you know, go to Cameron Indoor for the first time and to be at Wake. I've never been to these places and I think our players have sensed some of that excitement as well. And I'm just so happy that we're holding our own, you know, we're holding our own in this really athletic, uptempo skilled conference that is the acc.
- [28:44]
Zena Keda
What about for you, Marta?
- [28:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Have you noticed anything, like, stylistically different?
- [28:48]
Marta Suarez
I'd say so. I had the privilege to experience also the SEC to the PAC12 to the ACC. I have to say the change from ACC to PAC12, from PAC12 to ACC wasn't as different. I feel like both conferences were very, very skilled conferences. Very scout driven, not as physical as the SEC was. The SEC to me, just felt very physical. A lot of great athletes, a lot of big bodies. But also, as I'm trying to compare, it is like our team is in such a different position this year than last year. This year we're going out there to win every game, we're out there to compete every game. So it's a completely different feel. So I'm not so sure how much of it is the difference between PAC12 and ACC than the difference of just where we at as a team and then where I'm at as a player too. Like, the confidence that I have this year is very different from last year. But again, I don't. Just very, very grateful for this opportunity. I think the biggest thing for us has been all the talks about traveling and time changes, like everybody's talking about that. We're just trying to have that competitive edge of what, what else can we do to be ready and to, to kind of make up for those, those little things. So I'd say maybe that's the biggest thing. All those talks about everything else that is not basketball, about the acc.
- [30:11]
Zena Keda
Well, I'm happy you mentioned, you know, the difference between last year and this year. You're going out to win every game. And if I was to ask you, like, what's the goal? Clearly it is to win every game. But going. Looking at the rest of this season, outside of winning every game, what are some of the goals that you may have as a player, As a player? I was going to say playa, Marta as a player, Marta. And then coach for your team overall to close out this season. And Marta, I'll start with you. Your personal, individual goals that you have.
- [30:44]
Marta Suarez
Well, my first and most important goal is just the team goal of, of making it to the tournament. I think even if I was thinking Selflessly about myself. That puts us in the best spot. You know, we have a lot of. A lot of players going out to the pros this year that I think it's going to be the best. The best spotlight for them and it's the most fun for me. So. So that's definitely my biggest goal, of course, as a. As a player, just to continue to grow my game, continue to build on my confidence, build my defense, take care of the ball, box out, of course. But again, my biggest. My biggest goal right now is just to take care of team wins. And right now it's acc. Right now, my biggest goal is Louisville. I think coach always talks about that. My biggest goal right now is to go out there Thursday and do my best and get that win, keep the.
- [31:36]
Zena Keda
Next thing, the most important thing that makes sense. Coach, what about you goals for this year?
- [31:41]
Charmin Smith
Yeah, it is that, you know, and all we've talked about is making the NCAA tournament. Making the NCAA tournament. And don't get it twisted when we get there, I do believe we will get there. That's not going to be enough. Right. Like, we want to play as long as we possibly can with this special team with this amazing chemistry. Right. I, I just want this to last for as long as it can. And I, I think we're talented enough and special enough and care about each other enough that we can do this for a long time. So it is the next game in the acc because it's so competitive, right? Like, you can't overlook anyone. I mean, we got Louisville coming up. They've been in the tournament. We haven't. So, you know, a lot of respect for Jeff Walls and what he's done. And we know there's going to be thousands of people there, and we've got to be ready to keep taking opportunities to try to increase our chances and build our tournament resume.
- [32:36]
Zena Keda
Me, what a perfect way to end this. Coach Charman Smith, Martha Suarez. Amazing, amazing conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to Sabrina and myself. And right before you head out on the road for some really big games against Louisville and then Notre Dame right after that. Thank you so much. And any last words before you head out?
- [32:56]
Charmin Smith
Go Bears. And thank you.
- [32:57]
Zena Keda
I knew it was going to be that. I knew it was going to be that. I was expecting that. All right, y'all have a good night.
- [33:04]
Marta Suarez
Have a good night.
- [33:05]
Charmin Smith
Thanks so much, man.
- [33:06]
Zena Keda
That was a fun conversation. Cal never seems to disappoint, especially with coach Sharmat Smith at the helm, but thank you so much again. To Mark Des Suarez for joining us. And this is a great transition to be able to talk about some of the teams that have surprised us here at the Athletic this season in the NCAA sphere. And Cal is absolutely one of them in the jump that they've made and the success that they found. But there's a few other teams that we want to talk about. So I'm going to kick it over to, to Chantelle and Sabrina to lead that conversation. Ladies, take it away.
- [33:36]
Chantelle Jennings
Thanks, Xena. This is Chantelle Jennings. I'm now joined with Sabrina Merchant. Sabrina, I feel like on the topic of surprise teams this year, Charmin Smith is obviously a great guest for that first part of the podcast, but I feel like, you know, that's a topic we haven't really talked about as much this season on the pod. Just teams that have kind of, you know, either surprised us either we didn't think they were going to be top 25 teams and they are, or teams that are maybe ranked higher than we thought they were. As we think about this conversation. And we, we can also get to teams that have maybe surprised us in a bad way, maybe had us reconsider how we think about cohesion over years. Maybe some people know who we're talking about right now, but let's start with sort of, you know, teams that have surprised us in a good way. Is there anyone that jumps out to you immediately when I say that I.
- [34:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Think we should start with Kentucky, an entirely new program essentially in Lexington with Kenny Brooks coming in for his first season. He brings in Georgia Amore, his five year point guard from Virginia Tech, as well as Clara Strack, who got some time at the end of the year when Liz Keatley tore her acl. But otherwise, like, it's not as if he just brought in every single Hokie, right? It was two of them. But then it's like a lot of other new pieces. You've got Taoni Kee from North Carolina. Amelia Hassett was a junior college transfer. They brought in Jordan Obi from Penn, who ended up getting hurt and hasn't played thus far this season. Deja Lawrence, which, forgive me, I can't remember which school she came from.
- [34:53]
Chantelle Jennings
Charlotte.
- [34:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Charlotte. There we go.
- [34:54]
Chantelle Jennings
But mid major, right? Stepping into the SEC from a mid major.
- [34:58]
Sabrina Merchant
Exactly. So a lot of new pieces and a team that even like in Virginia Tech's best years, was a little ill prepared to play SEC teams. So just a system that I wasn't sure if it was going to translate to the sec. This is year one, a bunch of new things coming together. And yet we're talking about a top 10 team in Kentucky.
- [35:19]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. I think that, for me, was sort of the sticking point where I think Kenny Brooks had showed at Virginia Tech, which is a place that you talk to college basketball coaches, and they're like, that is not an easy school to recruit to. It's hard to get there. It's hard to get recruits on campus, and then, you know, it's a drive from the airport, and it's remote. And, like, convincing kids to go there is tough. And to build a Final Four program there, everyone respects that. Right. And so Kenny Brooks is clearly a person who can recruit, knows how to build a program. But to do that sort of as quickly at Kentucky, you know, I looked at their history against SEC teams over the last few seasons, and since 2019, they were four and four against SEC teams. There's not a ton of ACC SEC overlap except, you know, when they have the ACC SEC challenge or in the postseason. But I think the notable season was that 2022-23 year when they made the Final Four. They went 4 and 1 against SEC teams that year. They beat Tennessee twice. They beat Kentucky. They beat Mizzou. And so, like, there was a sample size there to say when he has a core, because that group was like. I forget how many. We talked about it so much during the Final Four that year.
- [36:26]
Sabrina Merchant
It was like super veteran corps, like.
- [36:28]
Chantelle Jennings
Players who had been together for, like, 80 games. It was Kitley, Amor, King, trailer Sol. Like, all those players had all that experience together, and they were so. You know, I think in the Final Four game, they played six players. I was like, I think the sixth player. I can't even remember who it was at this point.
- [36:43]
Sabrina Merchant
It's usually Greg.
- [36:44]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Like, probably 10 or 12 minutes. Everyone else played heavy, heavy minutes. And so, you know, you had this veteran corps, and. And Georgia is obviously a piece that comes over. But then I looked at Clara Strack, and I thought, okay, you're six'four six'five but I don't know how you're gonna stand up to the physicality of other bigs in the sec. Sort of how that translates. Again, limited minutes after the Kitley injury last year, so we didn't have a great idea beyond Kenny saying she's one of the best passing bigs he's ever seen. We're like, all right, well, let's see it on tape. But, yeah, I think just those were sort of my questions coming in. I had confidence that Kenny could build something at Kentucky eventually. I didn't think he'd have a top 10 program in year one.
- [37:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of it comes down to Georgia. Him not bringing over everybody, but at least bringing over the point guard who knows how to implement the system is a big part of it. She's had a phenomenal season, even building off of what she was already doing as an All American at Virginia Tech. And then just the pieces, they fit so well together. I keep looking at Amelia Hasset and thinking, like, oh, she and Georgia must be friends because they're both Australian. But that's completely uncalled for. Like, they didn't have a relationship before that.
- [37:52]
Chantelle Jennings
It's a big place.
- [37:52]
Sabrina Merchant
It's a big place. It's not like when I was watching ucla, Ohio State the other night and there were like, two Finnish freshmen and thinking like, oh, they must have played together. Like, that's a different call than the Australian ones. But, yeah, Deja Lauren stepping in. Hassett, like, you talk about Clara Strack, even Clara Silva has been giving them really good minutes off the bench. It's just a lot of things have worked out and they've had the easier part of the SEC schedule. Right.
- [38:15]
Chantelle Jennings
I was gonna say the hardest is yet to come.
- [38:17]
Sabrina Merchant
The top stuff is coming, like Texas, lsu, South Carolina, all yet to come. But for them to only have sustained 1sec loss to this point, I think is pretty impressive because it's not as if, like, you know, they've won games on the road. They did take a loss to Texas A and M, where Lauren Ware just, like, absolutely destroyed them. But I think for them to perform the way they have and, like, for the offense to have continued to perform the way it has in SEC play is something I wasn't necessarily expecting, especially after they lost that game to North Carolina during non conference. So I don't know, it's just been a really nice surprise. It's like kind of just. Just Virginia Tech moving a few hours south. And it looks all very similar, the actions.
- [38:51]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, well, I think you hit the nail on the head, though. Like, the toughest part of the schedule is yet to come. And I think when I was looking at the schedule shaping up and thinking about Kenny Brooks's first year in Kentucky, I was like, oh, it's good that they'll sort of have time to build cohesion before they go into the buzzsaw that is Texas, lsu, South Carolina. Now we see that Tennessee is better than we thought they would be. Like, like, those are four of their last games of the season. And it's like, oh, lucky for Kentucky, though, three of those games are at home. South Carolina is on the road, so good luck with that.
- [39:23]
Sabrina Merchant
Let's chalk up another SEC loss there.
- [39:25]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I think so. But, you know, the fact that they have been able to build, and I think they're, like, three or four steps ahead of where I thought they would be going into that stretch. Like, I think at the beginning of the season, I would have said, chalk up. You know, maybe they go one and three in that stretch of Tennessee is better than we think they are. And now I'm looking at it and I go, heck, they could go three and one. Like, I'm not totally ruling that out at this point, that they could go three and O at home against Texas, LSU and Tennessee. Like, it would be tough. They have to play really well. Georgia's gonna, you know, have to have another performance where she scores, like, 25, 30, 43 points. Right? Like, she's gonna have to be really, really good. But it's not out of the question. And I. I think three months ago, I would have said that was.
- [40:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, we're talking about a team that, like, probably is going to host in the first round of the NCAA tournament. They could get a double buy in the SEC tournament. They're currently one of those top four seeds, along with lsu, Texas and South Carolina. So just a lot of important milestones have already been hit in year one, which just, I don't know, kind of makes it really exciting to see what could happen in Kentucky going forward. Of course, like, could just be a dramatic step back when Georgia Amore turns pro, but, like, you know, gotta have faith in Kenny, I guess.
- [40:34]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, and before we move on, I think the other thing to note about the SEC in particular is, like, this is a league that got tougher from last year. This year, when you add Texas and Oklahoma to the mix, like, I thought Kentucky would be, you know, you add those two teams, and I definitely slotted Texas and Oklahoma ahead of Kentucky, where, you know, back in October, November, in terms of thinking where these teams would be, how deep the SEC would be. And I thought Kentucky would be in that, like, middle to middle, back of the pack, sort of like in that middle grouping, sort of right in there or just like, right below that. And so to do this first year only bringing two players from Virginia Tech in a deeper sec, like, you know, we haven't really talked about, like, coach of the year candidates yet, but I think Kenny Brooks is definitely in the conversation for that, just given what he's been able to do in a new conference.
- [41:22]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of the teams we're going to talk about today probably belong in that coach of the year conversation. I guess we can move to one of their SEC compatriots.
- [41:32]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I was going to say let's stick in the sec, stick in the conference.
- [41:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. Let's talk a little Vanderbilt, right? Shea Ralph probably going to find herself in these coach of the year conversations, but really the player in the national award conversations is going to be Mikayla Blake's for freshman of the year, which, goodness gracious, is going to be quite the, quite the conversation to have, let alone SEC Freshman of the year and national Freshman of the year. But, but you know, Vanderbilt, a team that hasn't made the NCAA or made the NCAA tournament for the first time in 10 years last season, but you know, bit of a dry spell there for 10 years. And they bring in Mikayla Blakes, who's the number eight recruit in the country. Shay Ralph's biggest recruit since she got to that program. And just like a really fun team to watch. Right. Like a team that has a lot of players who can come at you one on one. It's not just Mikayla Blake's. Like Camille Pierre has been playing pretty well. Jordan Oliver's been super important for what they're doing there. I don't know, everything's sort of coming together and you have the dynamic presence of like these two 20 point scorers a night in Pierre and Blake's who again, just like you don't think of SEC and like high scoring all the time. But like that's, that's what you get when you're watching Vanderbilt on a regular basis.
- [42:34]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. When I was thinking about this team like it's Shea Ralph's fourth year, you know, you can kind of think about a coach's career in those first four years a lot. Like a player's like fresh. Like this is her senior season, maybe she's, she gets a fifth year and that's when we really see her excel. Right. But in that way, I think they're kind of ahead of schedule in a way just because Vanderbilt is for different reasons similarly a tough place to recruit to. Like you look at the sec, there are other programs that have more history, bigger fan bases, sort of more amenities in terms of what a player might be looking for. And Shea Ralph takes over Vanderbilt in 2021 after being at UConn for so long, sort of as the heir apparently to Gina Oriemma there. Carves her own Path in the sec, you're like, all right, let's see what she can do. At this school that really has no recent history of success. And my gosh, it's like everything in hindsight makes sense, right? When you're looking at it back in October, you're like, yeah, I don't know, we'll see. But like, Ayanna Moore was the second leading scorer on the team three years ago as a freshman. And you're like, okay, she misses a season because of injury, comes back, Camille Pierre comes in, gets really good minutes. Last year as a freshman, you add Mikayla Blakes to the equation, and it's sort of like what Shea Ralph has been able to do is just keep adding without a ton of attrition, like being able to add and add and add. And so it's like everything just keeps compounding. And so then it's. They make it to the NCAA tournament last year, and now they've been in the top 25 this year after a really long break from that list as well. And similar to Kentucky, like, they've got some tough stuff ahead of them. They have Oklahoma and South Carolina at the end of the season. We're recording this on Thursday afternoon. They have Texas tonight. So, like, they have a tough schedule ahead of them. And, you know, they haven't had as much success as Kentucky. Like, they have good wins over Tennessee and Alabama. They also have good losses, I would say, to LSU and Michigan State. So they have more losses there. They're 18 and five right now. But to sort of build this program to be 18 and 5 at this point in the year, after her first year, they were 16 and 19. Like, to be under.500 and to do it this quickly is just really, really impressive for someone that I think we thought was just going to be at UConn until Gino retired. Yeah.
- [44:47]
Sabrina Merchant
And I think what's really stood out to me about Vanderbilt is that, you know, they're a relatively young team. Like, Meal Pierre is a sophomore, Caleb Blakes as a freshman, they're going to.
- [44:55]
Chantelle Jennings
Be so good next year.
- [44:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. And they go through that stretch, you know, right around the start of SEC play where they lose to Kentucky, they lose to Ole Miss, like, like, neither of those are particularly close. They lose to lsu and then their reward after those three losses is to play Tennessee and they have that, like, fantastic back and forth game which results in Mikayla Blakes hitting the game winner on a putback. And just to come back out of that stretch and, like, get the win over Tennessee, you mentioned the win over Alabama. It's a matter of resilience that you don't really expect from a team that like, is that Young hasn't historically had much success in the sec, especially not together. So I thought it was just like very impressive for this team to bounce back from that stress of schedule because it's so easy for just a couple losses to send your conference season just like spiraling down in a bad direction and to save it, right. To be in a point where like, we're still, you know, at a point where maybe we get a first round SEC buy, if not a double buy and like, you know, we're still talking about a top 25 team and one who, like, if a couple things go right, could they get themselves in a hosting conversation? If they spring an upset over Texas, if they, you know, win another one of the big games on their schedule against. I'm not going to say if against South Carolina. Let's, let's not get into that. But like, if you win against Oklahoma, you win a couple more games, right? So for them to still be in position to achieve all of these potential goals, even having gone through that little dry spell, I think is really important just for a young team to like, power through those setbacks.
- [46:15]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, and they are young. I think the resiliency that you pointed out is big. Like to have LSU be your third game of that stretch and to only lose by six on the road, like that is a good, good loss. Like that shows some mental fortitude. That shows an ability of a team to stick together, to be on the road, to go into Baton Rouge and obviously they couldn't contain the Tigers Big three. A lot of teams can't. But, you know, you live with that loss, I think, because it tells you a lot about sort of the character of the team that you're building. And this to me is a year where, you know, if Vanderbilt makes it to the second round, like, this is a great year because moving forward, Ayanna Moore has a year of eligibility left. She could come back from that medical red shirt if she, if she wants and like to have Camille and Mikayla both back, like to build on that and sort of, you know, I'm not exactly sure what their recruiting class looks like right now, but to think about the players that they can bring in with the excitement that they have built in Nashville in this year and to sort of, you know, they finally have the proof points of like, you know, Shea Ralph got Mikayla Blakes to come to Vanderbilt without a ton of, of A ton of proof, like, come here. Buy into what I believe can happen here. And now they have, you know, they have an argument that they can be a team that competes in the sec, maybe not for the title at this point, because South Carolina and LSU are at the top until, you know, until. Otherwise.
- [47:36]
Sabrina Merchant
Until Don Staley decides to hang him up, you know.
- [47:38]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, basically. And so it's like, you know, for. For the foreseeable future. That's how it's going to be. But. But, you know, Vanderbilt can be a team that is in the top half, top third of this conference because, you know, we talked about Kentucky sort of when Georgia leaves, where do they go? But Vanderbilt seems to be a team to me at this point, that it's like, buy stock. Like, this is a team that is on the upswing. As good as they might be this year, I think they'll be better next year.
- [48:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, they're on the other side of that development curve relative to what we were talking about with the Wildcats, for sure.
- [48:08]
Chantelle Jennings
Exactly. Exactly. Well, I think, you know, just to stick inside the SEC for one more team. We've talked about Tennessee a ton this year, but I don't think we can have this conversation without at least mentioning the Lady Vols. Not a team that I think was in either of our top 25s at the beginning of the season. But certainly they've surprised me. They've shocked me with how quickly they've sort of bought into Kim Caldwell's style of play and how well that style has sort of adapted within the sec. I wasn't sure, you know, how that would go. Is there anything, I guess, that we haven't talked about with Tennessee yet on the pod that you feel like should be addressed within this conversation?
- [48:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Mostly just like what they look like when people start scouting them.
- [48:51]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [48:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, the major conferences are different this year in that you only play one opponent twice. So it's not as if, like, you get LSU once, then you get them back again, and you get Missouri and all that. But I do think there is so much more tape on Tennessee now than there was at the start of the season. And they are in that lull that we talked about with Vanderbilt. Right. They lost three SEC games in a row. Their losses have just been, like, the most excruciating variety for Lady Vols fans. I think their first four losses were, like, by combined eight points, and then they lost to South Carolina by seven after making that massive comeback in the fourth quarter.
- [49:24]
Chantelle Jennings
So they're.
- [49:25]
Sabrina Merchant
They're, like, right there all the time.
- [49:26]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [49:26]
Sabrina Merchant
I just Wonder if we're getting to a point where they've been scouted particularly well and they're going to have to find some counters or if it's just, you know, a bit of a bad stretch. Like Kim Caldwell had to go on maternity leave, right, because she delivered a child. And there's a lot of like, just changing things in that program. So I'm just keeping my eye out if it's, if it's a blip or if, you know, Tennessee's just going to like roll right back and look as imposing as they did with their style of play during the non conference season.
- [49:55]
Chantelle Jennings
I think this is also kind of the time in the season where you're starting to see the wear and tear on bodies and sort of. It's. The season is really, really long. There are some coaches out there who call it fu February. Like, you hit a point in the season where it's just like, this is a really long season. You're traveling a ton, the games are just coming at you. It's a gauntlet no matter who you're playing. Like, it's just never ending, right? And then, then you kind of get to the midway point of February and you're like, okay, conference tournament season, post season is in sight. Like, we're rounding that final curve of the track and like, we can see the finish line, but right now it's still like you're on the backside of the track and you're like, well, just gotta keep, keep going, keep going. And so I think there are a lot of teams that, you know, haven't have as much time together as a team, or maybe it's a new coach or maybe it's a new system, whatever it might be, that, that they're just sort of in this. It's like this is a really hard part of the season just to sort of exist through, which makes sort of the success that we see from teams like UCLA or South Carolina that just like keep winning and keep chugging along. Like, it makes it that much more impressive, especially when you consider the travel schedule for ucla. But yeah, I think Tennessee similarly, like, I don't know if I put them in the same, same boat as Kentucky, where it's like, next year we'll see. You're at Vanderbilt, where it's like, yeah, they're on the upswing. Tennessee, for me, is a program where I think it's going to be really interesting moving forward to see how that system progresses in an era of the transfer portal. Because you see that system and you think it's going to be best when players are in it for three years, four years, and you can't count on that anymore in this era of college basketball. And so how does that work given the success we've seen in year one, given the success of players like Talisha Cooper, who committed to Tennessee, not expecting to play in this style of basketball and yet has just excelled. And so I think Tennessee will as much of as sort of they've been a test case of like, what, what is this program going to be this season? I think next year. There's still sort of a question mark for me in terms of how do they build on the success of year one with Kim Caldwell with some consistency of roster, with a good freshman class coming in with probably transfers as well, because there will be people that want to play in that system. Yeah, I think I'm really curious to see year two under Kim Caldwell as well.
- [52:19]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I do think it's interesting with Tennessee, and I realize this isn't exactly in like, the surprise vein, but I mean, I just appreciate that, like, we're, we're getting to judge a Kim Caldwell team for its own merits as opposed to a game against the backdrop of Tennessee Lady Volunteers women's basketball. So, you know, I'm grateful for her, just that she gets to like, just.
- [52:40]
Chantelle Jennings
Be like a normal head coach.
- [52:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, exactly.
- [52:43]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, I think like, the PAT Summit shadow will always be there, like, as long as you're wearing orange. Like, it's, you know, her name's on the floor. Good luck outrunning that. But like, yeah, I think it is nice that it's just sort of like we haven't spent as much time being like. But is this as good as the Pat Summit defenses? Because it's just so different. Like, it's just such a different style of defense and pressure and sort of that same idea of it, but very different at the same time.
- [53:09]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, absolutely. I guess we can finally leave the SEC in terms of surprises. How about the acc?
- [53:16]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah.
- [53:16]
Sabrina Merchant
All right. Given that we spent this time talking with coach Simon Smith and Marta, I think it's fair to move on to Georgia Tech, which I think, you know, definitely one of the early season surprises. Conference schedule, like, comes for us. All right. Like, they had their moments where, you know, Danny Carnegie gets hurt and they suffer three straight losses in a row. But overall, just like, really impressive season for the Yellow Jackets during non conference. They picked up some, some good wins, I think, over like, South Dakota State, an Oregon team that was just coming off of a win against Baylor you know, right when everyone was really high on Oregon. So some good momentum heading into the ACC season. So they go into Carmichael arena, take down North Carolina, they, you know, are racing through the start of ACC season and then like Danny Carnegie goes down against Virginia Tech and they sort of go through this bit of a slump, but I think she's probably the place where we want to start. It's kind of amazing to me that a freshman who is coming off the bench is going to be so impactful for a team, but that really is the case with her. She's just a very prolific score, like so comfortable getting to her own shot as a freshman, which I feel like I should just expect now. Like all of the freshmen we talk about are just really good at basketball immediately. Yeah, but yeah, for her to like come to a program that again, historically like has been not in its like best era. They made the tournament a few years ago, but it's not like they've had any deep runs in the tournament in a while. They just have a lot of dabble, you know, and I think the addition of their two freshmen with Chit Chat Wright and Danny Carnegie has just given them that extra juice they needed to like really be a more complete team. And I don't, I mean like they gave Duke a really good run in one of their closer losses in ACC play. So it's, it's been a very competitive team in the acc and I don't know what it's going to look like in March, but for them to still be like someone we're talking about this deep into February, I think is quite a win for this program.
- [55:10]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I think they do a lot of things really well. I wouldn't say they're necessarily like one of those teams that is leading the country in one particular category. Like they just do a lot really well. And I think when I looked at this Nell Fortner team, recent history at Georgia Tech, you think of that 20, 21 sweet 16 run, which is the first time they'd finished in the coaches top 25 in quite a while in Georgia Tech and they had Lorella Kubaya, Kiera Fletcher, Lotta May Lottinen, like a really veteran group of players. And you looked at their roster coming into this year and you were like, okay, Chit Chat Wright and Danny Carnegie are really gonna have to contribute probably. Is that going to happen? And I think anytime you're sort of counting on freshmen to elevate a program, it's just there's more question marks there. It's similar to Vanderbilt is probably why I, you know, we weren't thinking about Vanderbilt as a top 25 or a top 25 CUSP program this year because like Mikayla Blakes was going to need to elevate that program. And like you said, maybe we should just start assuming that all the freshmen are going to be incredible. Like any preconceived notion we have about a transitional period to the college game, like, let's just get rid of that right now. But this is another program where I think you look at the freshmen, it's like they had a solid core, they had players who were good at what they did. And the freshmen have really sort of pushed this group into the top 25 category, which again, not something we always see. Except all of these teams we're talking about for some reason, not all of them, but so many of the teams that we're talking about right now, it's the freshmen that are really elevating them. The freshmen that, whether we're talking about UConn, whether we're talking about Georgia Tech, whether we're talking about Vanderbilt, the freshmen are really having such a big impact on the ceiling of these teams. But I think Georgia Tech is a perfect example of that. And clearly Georgia Tech is really happy. Nell Fortner just got a three year extension, so they're gonna keep her for another three years, which makes sense. You know, their recruiting has clearly shown recently. You know what they can do to get chit chat right out of Atlanta. Sort of a hometown kid, but Danny Carnegie's number 29 player in the country from New York, that's a recruiting coup for Georgia Tech. And so looking forward, this is another team that I think is sort of on the upswing because so much of their core returns next year. And the freshman to sophomore bump that I think we'll see from Carnegie and Wright will still exist even with the incredible freshman seasons they've had.
- [57:40]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it really is annoying that we're just going to have to reframe all of our priorities about how freshmen are supposed to compete in basketball.
- [57:46]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, I feel like that's actually a good transition to maybe the bad surprise we want to talk about because this program in particular is one that has sort of tested my theories about a lot of what I believe in college basketball. Specifically the value of a really veteran, experienced point guard and cohesion and the freshman to sophomore bump and staying in a conference that arguably got weaker. Anyone want to take a guess who I'm talking about? Yeah, Iowa State. This is a team that I think all of us were at least at the athletic, were thinking of as a potential Final four team heading into this year given what returned in Ames. And they're not even, you know, a top 30 team in the country right now. Given what we've seen from them, like outside of that lengthy. Like what has been most surprising for you about the Cyclones?
- [58:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think it's a lot of things, right. So they bring back Audi Crooks and Addie Brown. They've got Emily Ryan, as you mentioned, they did have a little bit of attrition in that five player freshman class that they brought in last year. But you know, they still have, you know, Lily Hansford came in from Oregon State who seemed like she was just gonna be like a really good shooter for them. They had that trio we talked about.
- [59:07]
Chantelle Jennings
And they also lost Kenzie Hare in.
- [59:09]
Sabrina Merchant
Terms of her injury. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, okay, so you think about Iowa State and like the Hilton Magic and that, that's been there, right? Like they've been very good at home. Other than one loss to tcu, which was a baffling game in which Sedona Prince was scoreless and yet they still lost to tcu. But regardless, just anytime they, they go away from Ames Iowa, it's just, it's been really bad. Like they had one of the most uncompetitive losses I've ever seen when they played South Carolina in that non conference tournament earlier this year. They didn't do particularly well in the, the Iowa intra. I don't know what you call those games, like when all the Iowa schools play each other in Northern Iowa and Iowa State and yeah, they just haven't been particularly, I don't know, like they don't execute as well as I thought they would for a team that has a fifth year point guard and with so much institutional knowledge there, like Bill Finley's been there forever. It just doesn't look as crisp as you would expect. A team that has this much continuity and who looks to be peaking at the right point of last year.
- [60:17]
Ben Pickman
Right.
- [60:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Like we were talking about Iowa State because Audi Crooks had that, you know, 40 point masterpiece in the first round of the NCAA tournament against Maryland and they take Stanford into open overtime on their home court in the second round. Right. And it just seemed like everything was piecing together for the right run and you know, their first real test of the season against Northern Iowa, they end up losing by 12 points. Right. And it's just, I don't know, I've never really felt like they have been the ones to I don't know, set the pace, like set the tone against better teams. And maybe it is that they're just still a little young, but it is, like I said, it is really surprising. Like, I mean, I'm with you. I had Iowa State ranked really high in my preseason poll. I had Adi Brown as my breakout player of the year. And we're just in a situation where like, kind of just stagnant from what we saw last year, if anything, if not a regression altogether.
- [61:06]
Chantelle Jennings
And I think, like, as we talk about Emily Ryan, Emily is someone that early in her career at Iowa State, you know, she started 109 games for them through four seasons. She was playing like 38 minutes a game. 37, 38 minutes a game. And I think now she's at 26. But yeah, I mean, I think it all of this is sort of connected in terms of how it impacts like the flow of the game and their ability to take over. But I just, even I expected Addie Brown and Audi Crooks like to have those two sort of anchoring any team. I thought given what they did last year, given what they did in the postseason, I was like, this is a team that, you know, buy stock. That would have been the wrong move to make coming into this year. And, you know, we'll see sort of what this team. Yeah, I think maybe Iowa State is, is one of those teams that looking ahead to next season, I'm like, I have no idea what to expect from them. You look at their system and again, it's like, despite what we've seen on the court this year, I still have faith that Audi Crooks and Addy Brown can anchor a team at Iowa State that could be an Elite eight team, put some three point shooters around them, which Bill Findley has tried to do, and like, this just feels like a group that has a path to the Elite eight. And maybe I'm just sort of being delusional right now because everything that I've seen on the floor this year from them is telling me that that might not be the case. But I still, you know, I believe in the state of Iowa as we look ahead. And one year that sort of goes against that and forces me to reconsider how I think about a program success year to year and what constitutes, you know, this means a team might be successful the next year. Like so much of Iowa State has just flown in the face of that for me. But I still think this is a team that could be in the top 25 next year.
- [62:54]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say it's like all too soon to write them off for any potential success like down in March. I mean, they've hit kind of the hard part of their Big 12 schedule already. You know, they already faced TCU. They already had to go to Manhattan to take on Kansas State. So, you know, they only have one ranked game left. Maybe they go on a little run to end the season here, like get some magic going into the Big 12 tournament. They had a nice run in the Big 12 tournament last year, too. So this wasn't a team that was like super consistent last year either. Right. They had their bumps and brutal over the course of the regular season, which.
- [63:29]
Chantelle Jennings
We expected because there were so many special last year. That's what we expected.
- [63:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, there were.
- [63:33]
Chantelle Jennings
So the excuse doesn't stand this year.
- [63:36]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I just. I just wonder if, like, maybe there's some inherent inconsistencies built into their, I don't know, their makeup and they'll go on another little run here, but it's a team that, again, just has so much talent and we've seen them succeed with this core together that it's. It's just confusing to not watch it work. Like, yeah, that's all I really have for you. It's just confusing.
- [63:56]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, on that note, hopefully we've made a little more certainty of the confusion that might exist out there or the things that we've seen on the floor helped clarify those a little bit or put it in a new perspective for our listeners out there. For Sabrina, I'm Chantel Jennings. We'll kick it back to Zena and we'll be back with you all on Tuesday.
- [64:13]
Zena Keda
I'm so happy that Sabrina and Chantel mentioned Vanderbilt because that absolutely has been the team that has blown me away. Camille Pierre, Mikayla Blakes, I mean, it's. It's been fun watching them this season. Thank you to Sabrina and Chantelle for just giving us a little bit of insight as they always do. Uh, and now before I say my thank yous to you guys for listening, gotta turn it over to the WNBA world because yes, baby, we are in free agency. Okay? And there have been some crazy moves happening around the WNBA world and I got Ben Pickman to give us our very first WNBA free agency roundup. Ben, let us know what's going on.
- [64:55]
Ben Pickman
Thanks, Zena. There continues to be a flurry of moves across the wnba. So here's a catch up of the last week. No trade or signing has been more noteworthy than the Phoenix Mercury acquiring Satu Sabali in a multi team trade. Sabili had previously expressed her desire to play elsewhere after five years in Dallas and she narrowed her focus on Phoenix which has a brand new state of the art training facility. Star guard Kalia Kopper and recently acquired forward Alyssa Thomas as part of the draw. Sammy Whitcomb, Kalani Brown and Sevgi Ouzoun will also wear Mercury uniforms in 2025 in Thomas and Sabeli. Phoenix has now landed the two best players who changed teams this offseason. One player they didn't land however is Thomas fiance Dewana Bonner. The 37 year old wing signed a one year deal with Indiana where she will join a franchise that clearly has big aspirations for this season. Bonner, a six time All Star, will play a key role alongside fellow new acquisitions Natasha Howard who had actually started her career with the Fever. Wing Sophie Cunningham, who was acquired in the Sabley deal and guard Sidney Colson. Kelsey Mitchell had previously re signed with the team, giving Stephanie White's group a strong core for 2025. Indy is eyeing not only its first winning season since 2015, but much more than that. There's been plenty of change with White's old team, the Connecticut Sun. Connecticut is in the midst of a full on rebuild, having lost all five starters from last season. Tina Charles, Diamond DeShields, Lindsay Allen and Yvonne Anderson are all new members of this entirely reshaped roster and it seems likely that more change is looming. It's possible that Natasha Cloud and Marina Mabry might get moved via trade. The six year semifinals streak is all but over. Dijonay Carrington was one of those sun stalwarts of recent season, but she is now with the Dallas Wings where she's reuniting with Kurt Miller who's now Dallas GM and first year head coach Chris Coclanis who previously was a Sun assistant. Carrington, fellow sun guard Ty Harris, ex Fever forward Melissa Smith and former Phoenix Mercury forward Kiki Herbert Harrigan will be new pieces as Dallas, at least for now, also has held on to the number one pick. Chicago acquired Beck Allen and signed Keanuurse in moves that should help them take a step forward in 2025. Minnesota brought back Natisha Heideman and signed French center Mariam Badian. Los Angeles signed 21 year old Australian guard Shanice Swain, a top scorer in the WNBL and a former second round pick while Las Vegas added former All Star center Cheyenne Parker Tyes in an economical deal. But last year's sixth player of the year Tiffany Hayes is off to the Golden State Valkyries Hayes is the first player with WNBA experience that Golden State has signed this offseason after they missed out on Bree Jones, Kelsey Plumb and Courtney Van der Sloot. They turned global, however, adding Chloe Bibby, Kiera Lynskens and Janel Salouan, all players with success in European competition. The Valkyries surely hope to build a strong foundation in 2025 and take swings next year during what will be another busy free agency. Speaking of next year, it should be a bonanza yet again as almost every contract signed this January has been a one year deal. Stars moving from team to team is now a norm, even if it might take some getting used to. Plenty of old faces are in new places. Xena, back to you.
- [68:08]
Zena Keda
Man, that Tiffany Hayes move is big. I still can't believe that she was set to retire last year and now will be one of the veterans at the helm of the new Golden State Valkyries, which I got a chance to check out their new performance center this week. Check out my Instagram. I did a little walkthrough of their behind the scenes tour. Very, very cool stuff. You can just tell the WNBA as a league is elevating all of their resources available to these players to support them in their goal of winning a championship and it was really, really cool to be able to see. I'm sure you'll see more as All Star shows up in the Bay Area next week. And you know, the Golden State Valkyries just utilize that opportunity to show off what they have even more. Remember, it's still free agency, so it's an opportunity to let other folks know what they've got going on in the Bay. All righty. That is going to do it. For today's show. I do want to make sure you guys are subscribed to the Athletic as always. I also want to make sure that you guys go check out the Women's Sports hub on Yahoo. Sports. The Athletic has partnered with them to make sure that we can get this coverage over to you guys in all types of channels. Not only here on the podcast, not only here on the site, but also streaming out over on Yahoo. Sports and also written coverage out on that hub. So sports.yahoo.com womens-sports go check it out. And there's one little thing we didn't talk about today on the show at length because we've talked about a lot today, but Unrivaled Unrivaled is about to debut their 1v1 tournament. Okay, you can go find out a little bit more about it on the site. I'm going to encourage you guys go there, but really cool concept coming out of Unrivaled. Big, big stars going up against each other playground style. 1v1 knocking their opponents out on the court using swishes. So I'm really excited to see what that looks like because, because it's very rare that we get to see what these players look like when they have to create against each other. 1v1 these are kind of things that you only see in practice, so definitely go check that out. This weekend. Again, Unrivaled has been streaming on TRUTV on Max and TNT as well. Really great access overall for the league so far this year. All right, I'm finally going to close it out, man. We covered WNBA unrivaled college. I mean, I mean this is what we do here at the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. That's why you're in the right place if you want to learn more about women's hoops. Appreciate you guys tuning in. If you guys have any comments, topics you want us to cover questions, please leave them below. Leave them on our our pods. Leave them wherever you can find us. We definitely want to hear from you. On behalf of Coach Charman Smith, Martha Suarez, Ben Pickman, Sabrina Merchant, Chantelle Jennings and myself, Zena Keda, I am thanking you for your ear and encouraging you to keep listening, keep watching, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to keep growing it until next time.
- [71:22]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [71:23]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [72:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Acast powers the World's best Podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything, but most importantly ourselves.
- [72:55]
Marta Suarez
I'm Paige desorbo.
- [72:56]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Hannah Burner. Welcome. Welcome to the squad. Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time. But of course we can't be managed so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.