← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
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- [00:02]
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- [01:21]
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- [03:23]
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- [03:44]
Zena Kada
There to watch them.
- [03:44]
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- [04:57]
Zena Kada
For the Athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show brought to you by AT&T. Oh.
- [05:12]
Wayfair Ad
Oh.
- [05:18]
Zena Kada
Welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's hoops. Again, we always say whether you're a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes the game or you're just a casual fan looking to Learn more. This is the place for you. Make sure to subscribe to this pod, wherever you get your pods to stay up to date. And of course, subscribe to the athletic folks, because not only can our writers speak, they can write, too. That's what we've hired them to do. All right, make sure you subscribe. Don't miss out on any of it. Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. Joining me, Zena Kada, as always. And let's go through what we're covering today, day or our scout. First up, we gotta talk about Angel Reese shedding a tier. It's virtual right now. You guys can hear it come down my. My cheek. We're gonna talk about her injury. We're gonna talk about the impact on the team. We're gonna talk about her impact on the league. Definitely. Definitely a conversation that needs to be had. And then we're gonna close out the show with four burning questions. Things that I know if you're listening, keeps you up at night, you're laying on your pillow and you're like, damn it, I need to know what Sabrina and Ben think about this. Don't worry, folks. I got y'all. We gonna ask those questions today. All right, first up, let's talk about my girl. Angel Reese outta Skytown announced last week that she is have. She has a season ending injury. And I'd like to break it all down with Sabrina and Ben. Sabrina, first up, tell us about this injury. Exactly what happened to Angel.
- [06:58]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. So the sky played the Sparks last Friday. It was their second win since the Olympic break. Oddly enough, both of them had come against the Sparks to that point. But lots of things have happened since then. She sort of fell on her wrist after she took a jump shot, kind of braced her landing with her wrist. And then we learned via Angel Reese, because she is popular enough to announce injury updates of her own volition as opposed to the Chicago Sky PR account that she would be out for the remainder of the season. That includes the entirety of the season. So even if Chicago makes the playoffs, we don't expect Angel Reese to come back for either of those postseason or I should say any of those postseason games.
- [07:35]
Zena Kada
And I understand in talking about the fact that she announced her ending of her season, she also discussed on her page, like the actual injury and like what the prognosis was and her surgery. Ben, how. What is the prognosis? How long, you know, even though she's not going to be playing for the rest of this season, how long will it be before she gets back in.
- [07:56]
Ben Pickman
The gym Yeah, I mean, I think this is a fun example of player empowerment. Right. Obviously it's unfortunate that it happened, but it's interesting that angel has kind of driven this story from announcing that she was out with a season ending injury to now posting about what that injury was specifically. Right. So she mentioned that she basically has a hairline fracture in her wrist. She said that doctors told her that she could either have surgery or potentially have arthritis at 22 years old, which she said was not something that she wanted. She said the bone could literally crack and completely shatter. But right now it's just a hairline fracture. She doesn't want it to get any bigger. And so, you know, she's going to go and get that surgery, I think on Tuesday, I believe, and then probably a hard cast, she said, for four weeks and then a soft cast for two weeks after that and then enter rehab. And she'll be ready, as she said, for unrivaled when it gets going later this winter in Miami. So.
- [08:50]
Zena Kada
Oh, that's a good thing. Cause I know a lot of people were excited to see her in that three on three league down in Miami. So. Okay, definitely wishing her fast healing, of course, taking all the time she needs to be able to have a long career. But let's talk, talk about that career so far because she's only played 34 games and yet has broken an unbelievable amount of records. Sabrina, I know we just had the account, the athletic account, just had like a post about the level and amount of records that she broke. Talk to me about just how hard it was to do what angel did this season in the time period that she did it.
- [09:35]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, you mentioned that she played 34 games this season and obviously it's not a complete season, but it is longer than most seasons have been in WNBA history. So the records that she's going up against compared to 2003, sorry, 2023, that is six fewer games. But you know, as recently as 2020, they played 20 games during that bubble season. 2021 was a 32 game season. So it's not as if she hasn't played a full regular season, so to speak, compared to the majority of seasons in WNBA history. So just putting that out there first.
- [10:02]
Zena Kada
That's a good point. That's a good point.
- [10:04]
Sabrina Merchant
That being said, you know, Ben helped list this out at the site the other day. We're talking consecutive double doubles. She's two double doubles short of the all time single season record, set the single season record for most offensive rebounds in a season, most rebounds in A season, just a litany of sky records that she set in the process, which, you know, admittedly are a little bit less impressive than overall league records. But yeah, the one thing that we knew about Angel Reese coming into her time in WNBA was she was an excellent rebounder. And for all of the questions about how that would translate, I think those have been definitively answered at this point.
- [10:36]
Zena Kada
She squashed on those really smoothly.
- [10:39]
Ben Pickman
One of the most fun things about, and I've used that word again about Angel Reese's record keeping and record breaking is if you go through the Chicago sky game notes in their media guides, as I have done this past weekend, as they try and list out as many as they could in chronological order. So you just kind of get a sense for Angel Reese like breaking and then re breaking and then re breaking and then re breaking records time and time and time again. Like as the season has progressed from, you know, kind of these like single game records for 20 or more rebounds or suddenly she's the first player to record two straight games of 20 or more rebounds and now she's the first player to record three straight games of 20 or more rebounds. Or some of the records with Camila Cardozo and Angel Reese, you know, both having, you know, 15 and 10 while shooting 65% or better in the same game or you know, from the start of the season that Angel Reese gets off to such a hot start and suddenly it's game three and now were on like the third rebounding record already. And at that point, you know, her 26 rebounds were the most ever in a three game stretch to begin a Sky career. So it was just this like constant avalanche of record breaking, especially on the glass. And it was kind of cool to see it presented in that manner. And now, you know, the hope in putting that like explainer together over the weekend was that we have a little bit more comprehensive of a look that we can step back as we start to doing this conversation too about, you know, just what did she mean for the league, for the sky, just how impactful was she and now that her season is over, like, you know, she's closed the book on rewriting history. So it is a good time to reflect on all these things.
- [12:05]
Zena Kada
Absolutely. Avalanche is a great way to kind of describe just how remarkable her performance individually was this year. But of course that individual performance impacted the Chicago sky and their ability to surpass things, what people expected of them. Sabrina, I know you mentioned in your article describing her career like there was not this expectation on the Chicago sky to be even in playoff contention. And that's exactly where they find themselves when you look at Angel Reese's, you know, individual performance. But what she brought to the sky, how important was her rookie season on just where they are now in at this point of the year.
- [12:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Just thinking about the overall arc of the Chicago Sky. They resigned Kalia Copper to the Supermax contract at the end of the 2023 season, but then she demands a trade in 2024 because they weren't able to sign anybody in free agency. There have been long standing concerns about how Chicago has been able to provide for its players. No practice facility. They play in that arena that is shared with DePaul. They have to stay in a hotel that's separate from their team housing, even during home games. So the level of player experience that the sky have been able to provide throughout the, you know, Kalia Capra's time there and even other players have spoken about this was just not what she was wanting to sign herself up for, you know, heading into her 30s. And so you have your franchise player demanding out. They trade her to Phoenix. They bring back a roster that has three returners from a year ago, right? Just Dana Evans, Marina Mabry and Elizabeth Williams. First year head coach, new GM coming in. Everything is sort of building from the ground up. And now you look at the sky and you think, well, they're as well set up as just about anybody in the league, right? They've got angel, they've got Camilla, they've got Kennedy Teaspoons, building a culture there. They have reports of a practice facility on the way, right. They're the second best drawing team in terms of attendance on the road. Everybody wants to watch them. Angel's one of the biggest stars in the league, if not probably top two. And everything has sort of just flipped on its head immediately since they drafted Angel Reese. And I was one of the people, I thought they gave up too much to get her. I wasn't sure that she was gonna be worth all of the draft capital they put in to make that happen in the draft. And I was wrong. Just in terms of what she's meant for the business of the Chicago sky, what she's meant to the team. I think you just look at the trajectory of this organization and how different it is than six months ago. I think 95% of that credit belongs to Angel Reese.
- [14:37]
Zena Kada
Absolutely. I just remember that intro, that walk into that dismal gym with barely any media. There was no fanfare. I don't think anyone from the Chicago sky organization was really there to greet angel when she came in for her introductory press conference. It was really embarrassing quite frankly for the organization for a star of this level. Now that we, especially now that we've seen her become and blossom into this star, walk into that situation and I can only imagine what they're going to do for their rookies next year.
- [15:10]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, the thing that is so interesting about the sky season to me is stepping back. They might end up, you know, at the end of the season in the same place that many people thought that they were going to end up when it started, which is out of the playoffs. Right. They are currently the eight seed, just holding on one game ahead of Atlanta as we tape this. And so if you look at pure results and where they might end, like they might have just met expectations or done exactly level as what people thought. Right. And I think, Sabrina, they were 11th in your power rankings entering the postseason and you know, it doesn't look like they're going to be 11th overall, but they could be 10th or ninth in the standings in just two weeks time. But really, as you touched on Sabrina, the key was figuring out do we have franchise pieces. And it's clear that in Reese and Cardozo they do. And that was especially important because Chicago doesn't really own the rights to control its own draft picks. Its first round draft picks in particular over these next two years having, you know, involved them in trades for Marine or Mabry to first acquire her and then also to trade up and get Angel Reese with Minnesota ahead of the draft. And so it was imperative for Chicago to learn what they had. And they took a risk in moving up for Reese in April, in morganing some of their future assets to get her, but in doing so they landed a franchise player. And so, you know, Chicago will still have to do a ton of maneuvering and it seems like Jeff Pagliarco, the gm, you know, he has not been shy about doing so. Obviously we saw the Marina Mabry trade midseason this year to get some assets back and maybe the biggest trade, you know, mid season trade we've seen in a long time. But all that is kind of the, you know, that is the stuff to hold on to if you're a Chicago sky fan. It's throw out the record at this point. I would even say like, you know, they make the playoffs, that's a great cherry on top of the season. Right. But I don't think anyone expects them to upset the New York Liberty or upset the Minnesota Links if they catch New York in the first round or even really win a game. But I think everything has kind of been a bonus this year. And even if the season ends up out of the postseason, like, you know, this really was a journey, you know, the friends we made along the way season. Right. Like, really value the journey, Chicago sky fans, because that's the stuff to hold on to, not. Not the record. At the end of the day, I love that.
- [17:17]
Zena Kada
The friends we made along the way. You know, it kind of goes on theme with what angel mentioned in her new podcast unapologetically. Unapologetically angel, where she said, I didn't have the pressure on me as the other draft picks above me. Right. I was drafted number seven. So there wasn't any conversation. She said this in reference to the Rookie of the Year race, but she was just saying there wasn't this expectation of me to be excellent and be the rookie of the year. It was kind of a surprise to her that she kind of found herself in this way. And so I feel like that can kind of be a parallel to the bonuses that Chicago sky have experienced and having her become a franchise player. Now. Speaking of that podcast, that's just one of the very many things that Angel Reese brought to the league and brought to the ecosystem of WNBA talk and chatter is all these different ways in which she branched herself out. And we saw this from her college years, you know, in the way that she announced for the draft through a Vogue magazine spread. Right. But this is another aspect of what Angel Reese was able to do this year is just impact the WNBA ecosystem. Sabrina, you mentioned it. Good for WNBA business. Good for Chicago sky business. I do want to touch on all the things that she did for the W as well and for herself as a. As a star within the W. Launching her Reebok line, of course, launching her podcast unapologetically. Angel doing collaborations with Reese's Pieces and Wicked. Oh my God. The Wicked commercial. Question, Ben. Sabrina, when you first watched the first few seconds of that commercial, did you know it was about Wicked?
- [19:00]
Ben Pickman
No, I did not.
- [19:02]
Sabrina Merchant
I completely missed me as a Wicked commercial, so.
- [19:05]
Zena Kada
Oh, okay, okay, okay. I completely missed the Yellow Brick road. Completely. I was like, oh, this is cool. Like, is this like a new Reebok commercial? Absolutely not. Wicked. Shout out to Angel's agent because sis is working. Okay. She's putting in some work, but she's gotten so many kind of out of the box opportunities that really sets the blueprint of what's capable for up and coming WNBA players, but also present WNBA players. And she Also will acknowledge that other players set that example for her, ones that came before her. So it's been really cool to see what she's done in the W. Any thoughts on that, guys?
- [19:46]
Ben Pickman
One of the big things I've been thinking about in the context of angel and in the context of Paige Beckers and juju Watkins below her is how fame translates from the college, you know, from college basketball to the wnba. Because so often, you know, we think about college being the peak in terms of viewership and maybe, you know, profile of some of these star athletes. And so for me it's been kind of striking to see someone like Angel Reese continue on with the kind of legacy and the cultural importance that she had at lsu that she's now carried that over into the WNBA and it hasn't diminished at all. Right. And that's obviously a credit to her. It's a credit you mentioned to the team around her, the people in her circle and all the kind of interesting and engaging partnerships and deals and other things projects that she's worked on. But I think it's like a good example of kind of a new era in the dynamic of women's basketball. And yes, you know, Angel Reese was a part of a number of these record breaking games in the wnba. You know, Chicago and Indiana played in the most watched game in 23 years. They were part of this all star game that broke records. Like those records are significant, but they still do pale in comparison to some of the college viewership records. But nevertheless, you mentioned Xena, the off court stuff and like that is like she has not become less famous in the wnba. If anything, it's the opposite. Right. And she's very much continued on with what she's bringing. And I think that's really significant for both her, but also for players coming up next to her and, and behind her that you can make this jump and like you can grow in profile, you can grow in your image, you can do all these different projects, expand your net worth. And she is a prime example of that. And I think, you know, that is a good sign for a lot of these athletes for, for years to come.
- [21:29]
Zena Kada
Such a great point about she has not become less famous historically. Players absolutely lost notoriety and fame and visibility when they got into the W in comparison to their college years. I kind of look at it like you guys know the term Nepo babies. I call this generation the nil babies. These are the kids that were in college and truly understood the process of nil taking advantage of your community, taking advantage of your Branding and monetizing it and understanding how, just how valuable, how much capital you have and just your name and also being able to tie in, tie yourself into your community. And these NIL babies, they know how to do it. They kill it at it every single time. I think about the fact that Paige Beckers was working out with Steph and Clay. Then she was at a New York Fashion Week event, then she was courtside at New York Liberty. I mean, it's constantly like, where is Paige Beckers going to be Next? And here's UConn women's basketball social media account being like, come home. You have class tomorrow. These are college kids. You would think they're in the league. I was literally talking to my boyfriend the other day about flaw J and he was like, is she not in the wnba? Like, he literally thought she was already in the league from just how, like, big she is and how much of a name she is and how much of a household name she is. So shout out to the nil babies. They are absolutely paving the way and being relevant way beyond your college years and outside of just the realm of women's basketball. It's very, very dope. And just to wrap this up, Angel Reese, Unbelievable season. Unbelievable way to, you know, make an indelible mark on women's basketball, on the culture in general. And we know the comeback will be better than the setback. So wishing you all the best. All right, let's switch it on over and talk about what's going on in the wnba. I got some questions, folks, and I got the right people to answer them. Sabrina, Ben. We know that the season is coming to a close, which is so crazy. I feel like it's been a crazy whirlwind of a season. Of course, lots of people joining this world of the wnba, and it's made for better chatter. It's made for bigger chatter. Is it always better? Debatable. But it's definitely made for more conversation and a lot more storylines. And that's the part that I really want to dive into as we close out this season. So the number one thing that a lot of people have on their minds, especially when it comes to these teams that are right at the brink of playoffs, is do you want to make playoffs or do you want to get Paige Beckers? Do you want to put yourself in a position that you can get a higher draft pick? Because we all. We talked about it on this pod before. Class of 2025 is phenomenal. And there's a lot of growth that can happen for Some of these teams that are looking to make it to the next step, but there's some teams that want to make it to the playoffs and put themselves in a position to win. Who, who knows? So the question is, does Anyone want the 8th seed? I want to ask, I want to start with you, Sabrina, because we literally, you and I talked about this, I think two podcasts ago, saying like, how do you tank? How do you watch for teams that are tanking, who's tanking, who should be tanking, et cetera. We had our thoughts and I swear to you, I think the very next few games, right after we had that conversation, it seemed like the entire WNBA was like, what the hell are Sabrina and Xena talking about? Absolutely not. We're not tanking. There's no signs of this anywhere, etc. So as you're watching these teams and you're looking at them, put some serious games up. You know, Atlanta Dream just losing to the Links recently. Just, I mean, there's, there's just been several examples of games where teams are coming really close against the top teams in this league and you're kind of like, wait, why are you playing so hard? So what are your, what are your thoughts on the eighth seed and the teams that are teetering right at the end of getting into playoffs or being read out?
- [25:48]
Sabrina Merchant
So the eighth seed is now down to a three team race. Dallas and the Sparks have both been eliminated from contention. The Sparks actually clinched the number one odds in the lottery as of their loss to Connecticut on Sunday. That doesn't mean, I think that they'll have potentially the most lottery balls because Washington and Dallas both have extra odds that could come their way via Chicago and Atlanta. So still very much up in the air as to who will get the number one seed in the lottery when that is decided in December. But for the purposes of this conversation, we have three teams that are still in contention to make that final playoff spot. That would be Chicago, which currently sits in eight. Atlanta, which is one game behind Chicago, and then Washington, which is two games behind Chicago. And if you're looking at the team that's playing the best right now, I would argue that's the Mystics. Even though they are in the 10 seed, you know, they went down to the wire with Minnesota over the weekend. They've collected a couple wins against other teams in this group. They've got three games coming up against Chicago, Atlanta and Atlanta. So a lot of opportunity to control their own destiny over this next week of the season. And, you know, Washington obviously has that 0:12 start to the season, you're basically writing them out before they've won their first game of the year. But they've essentially played like a.500 team since that horrific start to the year. Brittany Sykes is healthy. Shakira Austin's back in the rotation. Stephanie Dolson, best three point shooter in the wnba. You know, really great performances from Emily Engsler, Carly Samuelson. Like, it's just, it's a team that looks a lot more talented than what the record would suggest, obviously, because when you lose 12 games in a row, that tends to, you know, put, put a damper on what the overall record looks like. But I think, you know, like you mentioned, the Mystics do control their first round pick in the upcoming draft. So if they were to be in the lottery, they have a chance to get in the Pagebacker sweepstakes. You know, pair Paige with Aaliyah Edwards. Just like the dead at UConn, stories pretty much write themselves. But, you know, this is a team that likes to be in the playoffs. Like, there is some real value in teaching young players how to play in high stakes games and build a culture that people want to join, you know, so I do think that there is value in wanting to be in the postseason. Plus, if you're Washington, you make the playoffs, you push Atlanta out of the playoffs, you control Atlanta's first round pick. So it's not like you're out of the lottery altogether.
- [27:57]
Zena Kada
And yes, thank you for clearing that up. I meant to say Mystics against the Links this past weekend with the loss, 71 to 78. And it was the dream that I was thinking of. That loss of the fever. 104. 100. That was a fun game too. So, okay, that's. This is interesting. At least it's. Do you think the, the window's closing faster than we think or is it going to come down to the wire at the end of the regular season?
- [28:22]
Sabrina Merchant
We basically have decision day in the WNBA on the final game of day of the regular season. All 12 teams play, you know, similar times. But the penultimate day of the regular season is the one that I really have my eye on because that's when we have Washington versus Chicago. I'm sorry, not Washington versus Chicago, Chicago versus Atlanta. And those are the teams that are in the 8, 9 right now and could be basically deciding the fate of that playoff spot on that very day. As I mentioned, you know, Washington has these three games coming up against Chicago and then two against the Dream. So there is so much still at play within these three teams. And even though there's only five or six games for every team remaining in the wnba, the fact that they're all bunched up against the teams that are right next to them in the standings makes this very interesting.
- [29:05]
Zena Kada
Very interesting. And reminder, folks, the end of the season, Regular season is September 19th. Game that Sabrina was just mentioning is on September 17th. Now, Ben, when you think about trying to vie for the eighth seed and making it, you just mentioned earlier we were talking about, you know, the Chicago sky and where they could end up in the postseason, chances that they're going to beat a New York Liberty, even win one game, chances that, you know, the eighth seed's going to be able to beat Minnesota in a three game series, very slim to none. What are the benefits of even, you know, making it to the playoffs in your mind?
- [29:47]
Ben Pickman
It is, I think that experience factor and also being able to tell your players and prospective free agents and your fans that you made the playoffs. Because Xena, quite frankly, I know this is listed among us like in this segment as a burning question, but I'm not really sweating this one out. Like, you know, like, I think the lottery ball question and how the draft lottery shakes out because of who makes the playoffs is really interesting. And the schedule gods really did do us some favors on this one knowing that, you know, Atlanta plays two games with Washington still and also a game with Chicago. Like, they've made this competitive with some of the matchups that are coming down the stretch. And it is kind of funny how it worked out that way. So that is interesting. And we had, you know, Phoenix, they're likely going to be the seventh seed. They clinched a playoff berth just under a week ago. And so we've really, this has been the one looming postseason question for a while. But like the first round of the WNBA playoffs, for those who don't know, it is a 2:1 series where the first two games take place at the home side of the home team. So they're going to have to travel to Brooklyn. They'll play the first two games there. You know, there is a chance that a team can push New York. We saw last year in a 2, 7 series, for instance, Washington pushed New York in really two very competitive games. It almost went to a third game in Washington. But that Washington team is not as talented as this year's Washington team or sorry, that Washington team is more talented than this year's Washington team. And you know, everyone talked about that team not being correctly seated. This one much more is like an eight seed that we would expect. So it really is some of those intangible benefits of making the eight seed. Back to your question, because you say zero to none. Very slim chance. Zero, 1%, 2%. I'd be pretty stunned if we got a game three in any of these series. So it's good for the marketing materials though. And I guess that's as we talked about, that's good for something.
- [31:40]
Zena Kada
All right.
- [31:40]
Sabrina Merchant
Ben has a point about the playoffs not really mattering in terms of long term outlook. Like, you know, we mentioned Chicago, what a bleak position they were in the off season. Like they couldn't sell making the eighth seed in the playoffs last year as a reason for Kylie Copper to stick around. So it really depends on a lot of other factors then. Oh hey, we got to play two postseason games, neither of which actually brought in gate revenue for our organization.
- [32:00]
Zena Kada
So looking at the question, does Anyone want the 8th seed? It looks like more people want maybe the experience for their younger players and they want to end the season on a good note. 8th seed, maybe not the thing that's, you know, sitting on their mantle at the end of the day as something to vie for. And of course people want good positioning when it comes to the top draft pick the lottery for the draft. On that note, knowing that the end of this year is going to be pretty competitive, especially towards the bottom third of the league who looks the scariest or has the most momentum closing out the season.
- [32:47]
Ben Pickman
I think it's pretty clearly Indiana here. I mean they're 8 and 2 in their last 10. They are playing maybe the most exciting brand of basketball in the entire league really since play resume post Olympic break. They have, you know, been one of the WNBA's best teams and there's no other way to, to cut it. Like they've just been that good overall since the second half. Their third overall in net rating, second in offensive rating. Their defense has improved. Kelsey Mitchell's averaging almost 25 points per game. That's the second most overall. Caitlin Clark's averaging just under 25 points, just slightly below Kelsey Mitchell. That's the third highest. Caitlin Clark leads the league in assistance then I mean you got on the list Aaliyah Boston's playing. She was an all star in the first half, but her level of play has really elevated since play resumed in mid August. So this is a team that I don't think anyone wants to face because of their encore reasons. I don't think anyone wants to have to play Indiana because of what that can mean in terms of crowd and environment, whether It's a home game or road game. I think people around the league, you talk to people at other teams, even casually on the side in conversations. Players, coaches, you know, PR people, executives. Like, everyone kind of recognizes that Indiana is on a run and with the basketball that they play, how they play, and some of the stars on that team, like, they are really dangerous. It looks like Connecticut or Minnesota is going to be the team that they have to play in that first round. And you know, those are not easy matchups by any means. This is a very different Indiana team than the one we saw to open this season in the first eight and then 11 games when they got off to such a slow start. They're riding high into the playoffs and you know, it's the first playoff birth since 2016. I mean, the Indiana Fever, they, you know, they're. Everyone is hot and they're playing unbelievable basketball right now.
- [34:32]
Zena Kada
Overall, I definitely agree. And it's not just, you know, I think a lot of people would be like, oh, well, Caitlin Clark looks so much better in the second half of the season. True, she does. She looks stronger. She looks like she's, she's clicking with her. Her bigs better clicking with her team in general. But it's Kelsey Mitchell and Aaliyah Boston that are scaring the hell out of me right now. They are unstoppable scorers. And, and also, let's be real, Lexi hall is like wing dream defense. She is so long. She's always in passing lanes and here and there, you know, like she played against, you know, the dream. She played really well as a jump shooter. I. They're, they're very scary to me. Sabrina, you had them circled with, you know, their upcoming game on September 11th against the Aces. I feel like that game will be a heat check for the Indiana Fever. Why do you have that game circled?
- [35:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, mostly because I don't think it's gonna be a potential playoff matchup. So it's the last time we're gonna get to see it during this regular season. And when we're telling the story of, you know, Caitlin Clark going forward, I think it'll be interesting to see how she looked as a rookie against the two time defending champs. You know, this is the only opportunity I think we're gonna get to see what this realized version of the Indiana Fever looks like against this version of the Las Vegas Aces. It's a moment in time that I just wanted to capture, especially. Cause we get two of them. So it's kind of like a pseudo playoff series because you have to play those two games over three days, which are both going to be Indiana and just ridiculous environment at Gainbridge Fieldhouse these days. Like, every time I turn on a Fever game, you can just feel the enthusiasm coming out of the television. It's. It's insane.
- [36:06]
Zena Kada
Absolutely. And I'm sure a lot of Caitlin Clark fans who felt sour about the fact that she was not on that Olympics team will be very excited to see her going up against four Team USA Olympians and seeing how she fares and how they fare against her as well.
- [36:25]
Ben Pickman
I should just say we hope that it's four. I mean, we really don't know at this time in the Aces season with how things are going. Asia Wilson obviously was in a boot against the New York Liberty. Missed that game. And we've seen a lot of rest from Kelsey Plum, Jackie Young, Chelsea Gray, like the Aces are. I'm not saying I have no reporting. There's just all conjecture here. But, like, I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't actually see all four Olympians in that game. Sabrina, I don't know what you think about the Aces end of season plan right now.
- [36:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I mean, it's two games, so I'm hoping one of them ends up being at full strength. And a lot of rest means one game of rest for each of Jackie, Kelsey and Asia.
- [37:00]
Zena Kada
So it's. It's a good point. I. I think right now, when you think about closing out this end of the year, Becky Hammond probably. Again, we're saying conjecture, folks. We haven't spoken to anyone, but, you know, Becky Hammond probably is just trying to make sure that her team is in best, in the best shape possible to lead a playoff run. So I think we're all in agreement here. The Indiana Fever are freaking scary. They're. Oh, we're not in agreement. Sabrina is shaking her head. My bad, y'all. I jumped the gun. Sabrina, who do you think has the most momentum or is really scary to close out?
- [37:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I mean, this might be leading into our next question, but as Ben mentioned, the Indiana fever are 8 and 2 since the Olympic break, with both of those losses coming to the Minnesota links, who are 9 and 1 over the same stretch. So if we're looking at the team that nobody wants to face during the playoffs, I think it's the one that has a better net rating over that period of time, has MVP candidate and a piece of Collier will have home court advantage for at least the first round of the playoffs, depending on how this shakes out over the next couple of Weeks, they could move into two and potentially as high as one big game against the Liberty looming on the schedule. But, I mean, this is championship winning. Head coach and Cheryl Reeve has won four titles. You know, with the Minnesota Lynx, previously, obviously a team with a really good home court advantage, experienced players. We talk about deadline trades. Myisha Hines Allen was a really nice pickup for them at the deadline. Gives them a little bit of extra front court depth, you know, in case Atlanta Smith gets in foul trouble. I think the one matchup that kind of scared me for Minnesota was against Dallas, just because they are a little undersized in the front court. And Dallas has those really big bodies with Natasha Howard, Kalani Brown and Tierra McCowan. The wings, as we mentioned, are not making the playoffs, so not an issue anymore. And I think that's the only team Minnesota has lost to since the break. So I really like the way the Lynx have been playing. Their defense has been, you know, within the top three all season. It's basically a dead heat between Connecticut, New York and Minnesota, and I love the way they move the ball and, you know, just share on offense. So I think the team that, you know, has beaten the Fever both times and one on the road, one at home, is the one that I have my eye on as the hottest team heading into the postseason.
- [39:02]
Zena Kada
Leave it to Sabrina and Ben to lay out some really great arguments here. I was locked in. Now I'm a little torn. You're absolutely right. The Links are very, very scary. And I think the scariest part about them is just how confident and sure they are in their identity. I feel like the Indiana Fever are just unleashing and unveiling themselves as the scary and dominant team, where the Minnesota Links have been pretty sure about who they are all season and are just waiting for the rest of us to probably catch up. I'm. I'm torn. I. I think both options are really, really great. I'm gonna leave y'all listening to make the decision in your mind as to who the scariest or team with the most momentum is to close out the season. But now, Sabrina, you mentioned the links, and I think the links are my answer to the next question that is just keeping me up at night. Who poses the biggest threat to the New York Liberty? Because right now, they're rolling. And of course, if you guys watch the Aces Liberty, the final matchup between those two teams in the regular season on Sunday, Aces gave them a scare for their money, like, definitely gave them a legitimate opponent, even without Asia Wilson on the floor. Did that concern me for the Liberty? Perhaps. But still they were able to close it out and they're, they're sitting pretty at the very top of the standings. Who is going to be the biggest threat to them in the postseason?
- [40:37]
Ben Pickman
Ben, I like that you said, did it scare you if you're the New York Liberty? And you kind of gave a hesitant yes. Because if I'm a New York Liberty fan, I am very nervous about playing the Las Vegas Aces in a potential second round series. I mean, I was at that game on Sunday afternoon. It reminded me so, so much of Game four. And I asked Kelsey Plum about that in the post game and she shut my question down saying, I'm done talking about last year. These are two different teams. But that comment and response notwithstanding, I think other players and fans and everyone in the arena, maybe other than those on the Las Vegas Aces, felt that there were a lot of similarities between Game 4 of the WNBA Finals last year, in which Chelsea Gray and Kia Stokes did not, and this game on Sunday in which, you know, the Liberty were up against an Underman Aces team and it seemed like a foregone conclusion that they were going to win. New York led 63 to 43 with just over two minutes to go in the third quarter. And then things quickly flipped and Las Vegas goes on an 183 run. They end up even grabbing the lead late in the quarter and in the fourth quarter. And while New York ends up holding on in this version of the reprisal from Game four is what I will think of it as from last year. Like, I don't know how you feel confident if you're a fan of the New York Liberty or if you're a member of the team. I mean, yes, credit to them for picking up a win, grinding out a game in which they did not play their best. But just watching the body language, like I chose to watch the Aces body language after the game and New York were certainly happy, but like the Aces players, they one felt robbed by the refereeing. And Becky Hammond post game talked a lot about the disparaging and foul calls. I think Las Vegas only took 10 free throws the whole game and Becky cited a 60 to 38 foul discrepancy in the three games that they played this year. But like, the players all kind of had these like, nods and they were talking to each other. The Aces did from afar and it looked like it was kind of the, like, we know, we know we got them. Like, like we know we can beat these guys because like, New York kind of looks Spooked for a little while and, like, they stopped playing their brand of basketball. They stopped moving the basketball. Las Vegas built some confidence. They started defending better. They started moving the basketball better on offense to Las Vegas. So, like, I know Sabrina maps out the case for Minnesota. And New York lost to Minnesota in the Commissioners Cup. We saw New York recently lose to Connecticut, though. They've, you know, been dominant against Connecticut over the past couple years. But, like, you know, everything for New York has been this finals and winning a championship and this notion of chemistry and reacting and more comfortable with each other. And then on Sunday, they resort to so many of the bad habits that kind of like dug them a hole in the finals last year. And, you know, it. I think it was hard to walk out of Barclays center feeling really good if you're a New York Liberties fan, Liberty fan yesterday. So I'm a little nervous about that second round series If. If you're a fan of people in New York right now.
- [43:41]
Zena Kada
It's interesting because sometimes the dynamic of a rivalry or, you know, an opponent that you're constantly going up against can impact you mentally, right? Like, even if you are the better team, if this team that you're going up against has constantly been a challenge to you, has constantly forced you to bring your A game and ask everything of you, it can mentally impact how you show up to the game and. And just the level of focus that you sustain throughout the game. Now, I'm not saying that that's what happened to the Liberty folks, before we start jumping to conclusions, I'm just saying as a former athlete, whether it was in track, in volleyball, in basketball, whatever sport I played, you could have been the best team, the better team, the better player out there. But having a history of a player constantly being the one to beat you or constantly being referred to as the one that beat you, it can impact the way that you can show up in the game. And it's just very. It's. I think there's always going to be a little sliver of that hovering over the New York Liberty and the Las Vegas Aces whenever they play against each other.
- [44:52]
Ben Pickman
I really think. And I texted Sabrina this yesterday, like, Las Vegas led 71, 70 with a minute and 43 seconds to go in the game. And I texted Sabrina that I thought this was the most important 100 seconds of new York season, because I think if you're New York and you lose that game, it's just like, what do we have to do to beat this team?
- [45:14]
Zena Kada
Right?
- [45:15]
Ben Pickman
I know they had beaten them Convincingly earlier this season twice. And New York has been the better team from the beginning of the season. And so you can hold onto that and you can believe that. But like now the games are starting to get real and the postseason is very much in sight. And this is a team, you know, the Las Vegas Aces are now, they were not playing with Asia Wilson and like that they were still so close to stealing this game. Like, how do you. If had New York lost, how do you feel confident, Gain any confidence, any semblance of belief knowing that you let this one slip away in this environment at home, I think it would have been really, really hard to come back from now. New York does end up winning the game and can spin it any which way about the resilience, the grit, that they weren't able to grind it out last year. And these are some of the things we heard in the post game afterwards. You know, they weren't able to grind out game four last year and now we're able to. And so that shows some growth and that stuff is true. And like, they can believe that. At the same time, Las Vegas is confident because, you know, they just played this crazy game without the best player in the league who's having maybe one of the best years, if not the best year ever. So, you know, you can spin it both ways here, but I think it's a good thing that New York won, if you're a fan of New York, because had they lost, like, what are you holding onto as the postseason years in a potential second round matchup looms?
- [46:33]
Zena Kada
Absolutely. It. That is a, it's a mental game. And I agree with you, that last hundred seconds, really, if they had lost the level or the number of narratives about if is New York capable of being a championship team? Are they capable of winning the Finals? Oh, the narratives galore would have started just running rampant. And so it is, to me, it is impressive that they were able to grind that out, especially considering this cloud over them that's been over them all season long of you're trying to basically beat the Aces, right? As opposed to just. And I'm sure they're in their locker room saying, no, we're the New York Liberty. We're focused on us like et cetera. But let's just be real. The rest of the league and the rest of fans are looking at the New York Liberty to say, how good are you in comparison to the Aces, right? Could you beat the Aces if you had to meet them in the finals again? And that actually brings me to our Last burning question, which is the two time champions are not showing up to the playoffs with the same level of security that they've had in the past in terms of their positioning in the league, their ability to grind out games and a bunch of other factors that make up a championship caliber team. They are not showing up in the same way. They're still showing up to the playoffs shout out to them. But it's going to be a different grind, it's going to be a different journey. And the question is what do the Aces need to do to close out the regular season to put them back in a good position to potentially get to the Finals?
- [48:19]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think first is they have to be in complete health, right? As Ben mentioned, you know, we've had intermittent absences for each of the best three players on the Aces this season. Chelsea Gray missed the first 12 games of the season with that lingering injury from last year's finals. She hasn't quite quite looked like herself even since returning. So, you know, getting back to full health I think is the number one concern, which is why we've seen Becky Hammond be more judicious with their minutes recently as opposed to last year when you know, they were had the best record in the league and still played out, you know, up until game 40. So there's definitely a different approach this time around. They know they're not going to get home court as the number one seed. They're probably not even going to move up to number three seeds. So just get there in one piece and then we'll figure it out. You know, when the games happen in the postseason is number one objective. I think the second thing is their defense just has been a little disconnected. Like a lot of miscommunications that you wouldn't expect from a team that basically returns the entire core from last year. Like you swap out Kayla George from Megan Gustafson and put in Tiffany Hayes and it's basically exactly the same team that won in 2023. So the fact that there is so much play on the defensive end where it looks like they're not both running the same scheme and like there's a miscommunication on a switch and like why is the help coming this way? And little things that you wouldn't expect to happen from a team that had the best defense in the league last year and has the two time running defensive player of the year in Asia Wilson. So making sure that they're locked in on that end of a floor I think is really just things that they have to Clean up, right? Like, they have the same personnel again. They have Jackie Young, who is a stronger, tougher wing to guard than just about anybody in the league. They have Asia Wilson, you know, they have Alicia Clarke, who's one of the most veteran, savvy players in the league. Everything is there for them to be, you know, competing for a championship. It's just a matter of all getting on the same page. I think defensively.
- [50:04]
Ben Pickman
The other thing I would add is just how they move the basketball and like maintaining, continuing to avoid lapses in their offense. And that was something that Becky Hammond talked a little bit about post game as well. That in the second and third quarters when Las Vegas fell behind after getting off to a crazy hot start from three, it was because the basketball started to stick. They weren't passing, they weren't cutting. They weren't really playing off of each other at all. And that was really frustrating to Becky Hammond and some of the players post game as well. And so that is the thing on the offensive end to really watch for. Now, of course, the offense looks. Looked a lot different without Asia Wilson in the middle of it for if you're the Las Vegas Aces on Sunday. And so, you know, certainly modified than what it will be down the stretch and what it has been previously in the season, but that is another thing to watch for is how are the guards attacking if they are attacking and how are they kind of playing off of each other. I think that's one other thing that they've been so consistent about over the past couple years when they did win titles. And this year we've seen some, you know, some dips, some ebbs and flows game to game and like multiple game to multiple game overall. So that is the other thing to be aware of as this postseason comes up upon us.
- [51:12]
Zena Kada
I love that. Making sure that they come into the postseason healthy, making sure they get on the same page defensively and making sure that, that they've got great activity offensively rather than, as my coach used to say, watching popcorn or eating popcorn and watching the game on offense. I think I'd. I'd add one more. And this is kind of like on the. It definitely it's a 1B to what Ben was saying about the activity on offense starting early. I feel like their, their first halves have not had the same level of energy that they've had in the. Since, you know, in their past seasons. I still remember, you know, watching Aces games last season and by the time they get to sec to halftime, they're like skipping up the Court, like, that's how much fun they're having and. And moving the ball and just being on the same page offensively. And as a part of that, starting early, finding a way to involve Asia Wilson earlier, I feel like there's been a few games this year where she's had some slow start. She's had to have some slow starts, or the way she's had to involve herself has been her own work as opposed to her team, her teammates looking for her earlier in the game. But, I mean, I was. I. I ain't gonna lie. These last few games, I've been real concerned about the Aces. I've been concerned about Jackie Young's productivity. I've been concerned about their defense. I've been concerned about their. Their ability to. To get themselves involved in the game offensively. And as of this past game against the. The. The Liberty and how they showed up without the best player in the league and the world debatedly not on the floor, I was like, okay, okay, Asus. All right. Maybe I don't have to worry so much. All right. You look good. You look good. Uh, especially shout out to the bench showing up for that game, too.
- [53:01]
Ben Pickman
Zena, I just want to put some numbers to what you just described and the kind of fast starts for the Las Vegas Aces, because we saw in 2022, Las Vegas led the WNBA net rating in the first quarter. They were plus 14.7 overall. In 2023, they were 16.9 plus overall. A net rating after the first quarter of games this year. Anyone want to take a guess at what the Las Vegas Aces are overall? Any guesses here?
- [53:26]
Sabrina Merchant
It's something I just looked up, so Zena's gonna have to guess.
- [53:29]
Zena Kada
Dang it. Sabrina, I'm going to say, like, not even plus. I'm going to say, like, negative two.
- [53:36]
Ben Pickman
Negative two is pretty close. It is just plus one net rating, and that is sixth best overall. Or tie for fifth with Connecticut and New York, by comparison, is 17 plus 17.9.
- [53:47]
Zena Kada
There you go.
- [53:48]
Ben Pickman
As a positive net rating. But that tells you everything you need to know about starting fast and how this Las Vegas Aces team has not gotten off to those fast starts. And why. You know, I think we saw it on Sunday against the New York Liberty, like, when they jumped out to score 22 points. Right off the bat, it was, you know, it just opens so much up, and you realize there is so much talent there. That one possession, it's a Jackie Young 3. Next possession, it's, you know, Kelsey drives, she swings just to someone, and then Gets it back and hits a three. Or Chelsea drives and kicks it to plum for a three. Like where they find Clark. Like, there is so much talent there, but they've just been a little bit more inconsistent at starting fast. And you know, that number, that discrepancy, I think tells you everything you need to know about maybe the focus or just the execution level for Las Vegas this year in comparison to past years.
- [54:38]
Zena Kada
Listen, folks, I did not pay Ben to find those stats, nor did.
- [54:43]
Ben Pickman
You could have those. You could have. I would have found them.
- [54:46]
Zena Kada
I listen, I just appreciate Ben is fully incentivized.
- [54:51]
Sabrina Merchant
It's fine.
- [54:52]
Zena Kada
I love it. I know, right? I know. I just love when I'm able to say something and Ben or Sabrina are able to back me up with stats. I'm like, oh, I'm learning something. You, too can be like me. Folks, just keep listening to the athletic women's basketball show. You see the growth, okay? The growth is there. My understanding of the game is there. All right, so those were the burning questions on my chest, and I hope that those help some of you out there as well. If there are questions that you guys have that you're like Xena, you got the wrong questions. Burning on your chest there on your head as you lay your head to sleep. I got some questions myself. That's why we encourage you guys, reach out to us, comment on our articles, comment, send us emails, all the above. We're here for you. Tweet at us. Be nice. But please ask us these questions because this is very it's fun chatter. We want to know what you guys are thinking, man. All right, so we just got two weeks left. Two weeks of regular season. Absolutely crazy to think how fast this season has gone. But then it's time for the playoffs. And goodness, if you thought the regular season basketball was fun, y'all just wait till playoffs, and then you're gonna be asking for why is it only three games? We need five. We need seven. Trust me, I was there last year very, very much wanting more playoff basketball. Anyways, Ben, Sabrina, appreciate you guys coming by the show as always, giving us your insights and helping us grow as I did today. I appreciate it. Thank you, all of you that tuned in, of course. We love, love, love having you learn alongside us. Please hit that subscribe button so you can continue the process of understanding the game better. And as I mentioned before, leave us any comments. But for Ben, Sabrina, I'm Zena Kada, thanking you for your ear and encouraging you to keep listening, keep watching, keep learning, and keep loving the game because of course, that's the only way we're going to keep growing it. All right, guys, until next time.
- [57:22]
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Zena Kada
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Zena Kada
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Zena Kada
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