← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Bracket breakdowns and an exciting finish in college hoops
00:49:02
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- [00:00]
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- [00:22]
Zena Keda
There to watch them.
- [00:23]
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- [01:31]
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- [02:51]
Mark Schindler
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- [04:57]
Zena Keda
For the athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's basketball. Whether you're a die hard fan or you're someone that's kind of striking to get into the space, or you're someone that eats, sleeps and breathes basketball, make sure you subscribe to this Pod, wherever you get your pods. Because you are going to want to stay up to date with us, you're going to want to learn more and you're going to want to get to know our writers, which I have one of ours with us today. Today I'm joined by athletics, women's basketball, newest contributor, Schindler. And I'm Zena Kada. Let's get through what we're going to cover today. First of all, what's up, Mark?
- [05:50]
Mark Schindler
Oh, man, it's been a busy weekend. It's been a really busy weekend and I'm looking forward to like tomorrow is going to be like finally first relaxed day in like seven or eight days. But no, I'm good. How are you doing?
- [06:02]
Zena Keda
I'm well, I'm well. I feel like this week has been, I feel like every week's been insane for women's basketball, but particularly this past week and actually is a perfect transition until. Let's get into our topics for the day or what I like to call our scout. So first we're going to do a quick look back to the week because a lot of great things happened this week for women's basketball. So we're gonna touch on that real quick. Then we're gonna talk about some of the new content that Mark is putting on the athletics site. If you haven't seen it, don't worry, he's here to explain it. It's regarding the tournament, so you're definitely gonna wanna pay attention. We're gonna talk about some mid majors that might be should be on your roster. We're gonna talk about the Big Ten, someone that stood out to mark in the Big 12. We'll talk about the Pac 12 trying to pack the tournament right now. And then we're gonna see if we got some time what teams are just outside of the spotlight but are slowly creeping in. All right, we got a lot to cover, so let's go ahead and dive in. First, looking back, last week Caitlin Clark became the NCAA's all time scoring leader. Still crazy to think that, but she took the record from Kelsey Plum who had it for seven years. And I feel like we did not do enough of like a credit to her for having that record for as long as she did. And then Caitlin Clark getting to 3,528, which is what she needed to beat Kelsey Plum who had the record at 3,527. But then, you know, in Caitlin Clark style, she was like, all right, I'm gonna beat this record and I'm gonna set a career High and I'm gonna become the best top scoring person in Iowa women's basketball history. Ended up with 3569 after dropping 49 points. Completely outdid herself. Mark, you're someone that's been evaluating the game not only from the perspective of just teams in general, how they could perform individual players, but you also look across lines of men and women's game, and this stat was crazy to me. Caitlin Clark's numbers threw 126 career games, 3,569 points, 1,018 assists, 882 rebounds, 487 threes. Made no. 1 in NBA, WNBA or NCAA history. According to Optostats, any division men or women have reached those numbers in a 126 game span that's regular or postseason included. Mark, knowing that, hearing that, seeing what you've seen out of everything, what do you think is the most impressive part of Caitlin's game and her accomplishment?
- [08:33]
Mark Schindler
Ah, I mean, the accomplishment itself is. Is wild to think about when it's not even done in four years. I think that's what's so charming to me. Like, to, to put all of that together and culminate that is like just, it's. Again, it's just jarring because I remember like, ah, shoot. I want to say it was my senior year of high school when Kelsey Plum set the scoring record the first time. And I remember like, because I was somebody, like, I'm, I'm a super early riser, so I'd wake up every morning, watch Sports center. And I just remember for like an entire month there were five minutes on SportsCenter every day dedicated to what Kelsey Plum had done the night before. And I remember the day that she broke it. So it's like, to then see that happen and somebody do it in even less time is just. Yeah, I mean that's, it's crazy to me, but when I look at everything else just altogether, like, obviously you mentioned the quickness in games played, but to me, quickness in what she does on the court is what always stands out. I know everybody always points to the threes and obviously the passing because the passing is incredible, but it's the quickness, Quickness in court vision, quickness in how she sees things, how she makes things happen. Like, that's the differentiator for me. Like, obviously we've had great shooters, we've had great passers in the league, but having somebody who has that level of handle that can see the game and read it that quickly, that's Pretty special stuff. And yeah, that's always going to stand out with me for her.
- [09:55]
Zena Keda
That's a really great point because she also, no one else in the history of the NCAA has been able to be top 25 in both assists and points scored. And she's sixth right now in assists, what? And number one in points. I mean, it's just surreal. I think you make a great point with the timing because she still has the rest of the season to play and the tournament, et cetera. But the poise, for me, it's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of commentary about, you know, where she fits in the larger story of women's basketball. And I feel like it's unfair. I don't think that Caitlin's asking to this great hope and, you know, this representation of what it means to be the best basketball player in the world or the best women's basketball player in the world. I think she just wants to play hard and she wants to be competitive, et cetera. And so it's unfair that all these people keep putting all these attributes to her and putting her in this constant comparison battle with other players on her level or in the W. And it's like she's creating these, I don't know, I want to call it like a division in women's basketball fans just from how good she is and how people want to assess how good she is. And she has handled that, I think with a lot of great poise and played her game in all of it and not been distracted by all of that. And I'm not going to try and convince anyone to change their stance on what Caitlin Clark means to the game, et cetera. I have my own thoughts. I think she's amazing for the game, but I cannot imagine playing in college, being a student, being a regular 21, 22 year old kid and having the entire country debating what you mean to the game of basketball. Like it's a lot. But no, I very much appreciate that and I want to congratulate her. We all want to congratulate you, Caitlyn from the Athletic. Then there's another person we want to congratulate quickly. Sabrina ionescu, who joined NBA's All Star Weekend Saturday night skill challenge. She went up against Stephen Curry, the goat shooter in a three point challenge which was very, I think the wnba, the NBA, everyone did a really great job hyping this up and it was worth every single ounce of the hype. Sabrina came in, she had the record between the NBA and the WNBA of having the Most amount of possible, made three pointers in that competition. 37 of 40 possible shots, 20 in a row, which is insane as well. So she had beaten Steph's record. So Steph came in. Kudos to him for having no shame and no, you know, being willing to put himself on that. On that pedestal to potentially lose. And when you saw her go, there was a. There was a doubt that he might have lost. Cause she started the first rack 5 for 5, ended up with 26. Wasn't enough to beat Stefan. Stefan came up, got 29, but it was enough to have as many shots as the NBA players. Damian Lillard, Tyrese Halliburton, Trae Young, and Karla Anthony Towns, who in the first round all got 26 points as well. So she's on that level. Mark, who are you going for?
- [12:47]
Mark Schindler
Oh, man, I was just going for it to be fun, to be honest. Not to sound like a fence sitter, but that's where I was at. Like, I just enjoy watching like those kind of hot streaks happen. But it was a blast. Like, like you mentioned. I enjoy that. I kind of just wish we could have gotten like best of three or something. That would have been cool because we had this whole build up and I was like, well, what if we had even more of this? Because that's what was fun. But no, I had a really good time with it.
- [13:11]
Zena Keda
Were you stressed during the competition? I was stressed.
- [13:14]
Mark Schindler
I was a little bit. A little bit. Cause, you know, like, I don't know, you never know how something's gonna go. And like, it just had like a feel of pressure to it to a degree. So I definitely felt that. I can relate to that.
- [13:25]
Zena Keda
Yeah, no, it was. It was huge. I was so proud of Sabrina and she showed up and I love what she said. You know, if you're a shooter, just shoot, right? Shoot or shoot. Doesn't matter if you're a girl or a boy. Like, just shoot. And I think that was a great walk away lesson. And I think, let's just be real. The people that think what they think about women's basketball and whether women's sports is better than men's sports or as good or whatever, I don't think that that changed their mind necessarily. But I'll tell you what, it brought the NBA and WNBA world together for a moment to enjoy just amazing caliber shooting. So that was really cool. Okay, let's move in to the big part of what I want to talk about today. Our content just dropped. If you haven't seen it, the bracket central Series is live right now, supported by E Trade on the site. And it's basically content to help you understand the NCAA tournament. Mark, you are handling the women's side of it and I understand you have two new pieces of content. There's one called the Bracket Watch and there's one called the Bubble Watch. And I want you to explain it to us. What the differences or what we can expect as far as differences between the two pieces.
- [14:34]
Mark Schindler
Yeah. So Bracket Watch is going to be diving in each week. I actually just spent the last two hours before we hopped on here getting the bracket done for this week. Probably gonna have some tweaks after tomorrow's games, but yeah, the whole idea with Bracket Watch is trying to look at everything from the same angle that the NCAA committee does. Obviously I have my own biases and how I look at things and I don't agree with a lot of things the community does. So we aren't always going to be on the same page. But the whole idea is trying to project out what this looks like and giving you a gauge of like, okay, this is where your team, where your rival team, what this is looking like. And then explaining why, I think is the biggest thing for me because like I had somebody ask me last week, it was a great question. Like, you know, NC State has lost to Virginia Tech twice, but you have NC State as a one seed and you have Virginia Tech on the three line. Like why? I was like, it's a great question because those are NC State's only losses. They lost to them and they lost the Miami without River Baldwin. But then you look, okay, well they have marquee wins against Colorado. They have a lot of other stuff going on and it's all about like explaining I think is the biggest thing. Because so much of what's sometimes frustrating at looking at a bracket is like, okay, my team is really good. That's what I know. Maybe I haven't seen every other team. Why is my team, you know, why do I have to play as the 7 verse 10 round? You know, what's up with that? So that's what the first piece is really about. Like diving into the bracket. And obviously all like the exciting stuff going on is, you know, things change up week to week. Bubble Watch is a lot more about. So like just to give you a very condensed, small understanding of the bubble because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about like understanding the bubble. And when I had to like learn and teach myself how to do making brackets, it was like very eye Opening and like changing and understanding it. Because I think you like think of the, all the teams going in as like one field and that's not how it is. So the way that everything is set.
- [16:31]
Zena Keda
Thank you. Thank you. Because as a person that even played, I never understood how brackets were made, how even it started with like locations. Right.
- [16:40]
Mark Schindler
Like it's very confusing.
- [16:42]
Zena Keda
Okay, go, go teach us, please.
- [16:44]
Mark Schindler
So put it like this. Every time the committee comes together to do something when it's towards the end. So like when the committee's making the, the actual bracket, they're going to take 36 at large teams and then those are going to be the top, you know, one through. I can't divide in my head right now, but yeah, like the top What?
- [17:02]
Zena Keda
Divide by four.
- [17:03]
Mark Schindler
I think top nine seeds. Yeah. So 36.
- [17:05]
Zena Keda
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [17:07]
Mark Schindler
So that's going to be the top nine seeds. Are those 36 at large teams. So it's not even just that large. Like regardless. The whole thing is regardless of if they're an automatic qualifier or not, these are the teams that, that you would have make the tournaments. You take those 36, those are the top. And then for the most part all of the, a lot of the automatic qualifiers are going to come more bottom up. Like obviously you'll have like, okay, like South Carolina is winning the sec, so they're going to be an automatic qualifier that's automatically in. But like for instance like Lamar or like even Marshall who's a really good mid major team. Like you're so think of it like almost like a sandwich and then the bubble is in the middle and that's eight teams. But the problem is eight teams has to come from like 30, you know, that are all trying to get in there because think of it again like those automatic qualifying teams are getting in no matter what. So the bubble is really in the middle when you get, you know that 11 to 9 range and trying to get that figured out and squared away. So I think the bracket watch aspect is all about going into why this team is or isn't performing well, how they can get, you know, into the tournament, why they're dropping, why they maybe are where they are, even if they feel like they maybe shouldn't be. Like, so it's a, it's a lot of trying to understand that because I think that's probably the biggest definitely like the biggest draw around the tournament is the bubble.
- [18:26]
Zena Keda
So picture it for me. Do you have like a whiteboard in your room where you're working on.
- [18:31]
Mark Schindler
You don't want to know. I have six whiteboards in my room, actually. I had all these prior to brackets. I'm like, I'm really. I'm a big visual note person. So I have.
- [18:39]
Zena Keda
Yeah, I am too.
- [18:40]
Mark Schindler
So I was like, trying to figure out. I had five whiteboards prior, and then I bought in an NCAA tournament, like, full on bracket that is laminate. So it's like, I think it's probably 3ft by 4ft that I have on my wall. So.
- [18:54]
Zena Keda
Yeah, the only thing that's coming to my mind is, folks, at some point, I'm gonna find a way for Mark and I to record a breakdown of the brackets because this is fascinating and I know you guys are listening to this and we're not even able to see. See, like, you could be listening to this as you're reading the bracket watch. But I would love to watch you do this because this is fascinating. And I've never understood how the selection committees do this. I've only watched right. The selection Sunday and gotten like, yay, good for teams or whatever. But it's like, how did this happen? Okay, so my last question on this is going to be before we get into, like, some of the things you evaluated. What's the hardest part of evaluating rankings? Or like, as you put them in the quads, like, what's the hardest part for you?
- [19:42]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I think the hardest part for me so far has been, like, not letting, like, one thing over index everything I'm doing. So, like, because for me, like, I wrote about this last week with Gonzaga, but, like, it's just important to remember this is a full resume thing. So, like, a win in November should count just as much as a win in February. And I think, again, like, we can say, like, that's part of my issue sometimes with how things end up breaking down is it doesn't always feel like that. So I think to me, that's always been trying to be top of mind with that. And this, again, this is like my first week of, you know, going through and, like, really trying to, like, okay, well, now I have to sort through, like, what my seedless was and start tweaking everything around because of how this week went. And so trying to not let trend, like, because obviously trends are going to play a part. Like, you have to let them impact it. But also, like, okay, well, I don't want to forget that this team had, like, one of the four or five best wins that their conference has on a resume. So, like, you know, you don't want to forget that. But also like, well, y'all just lost to the 11th and 12th worst teams in your conference, so tough.
- [20:42]
Zena Keda
Let's put a pin in that until we get to Big 12. Okay? I want to make sure we keep a pin in that conversation of wins earlier in the year versus conference play because I think that's what a lot of big time teams, especially in these bigger conferences are coming up against where their non conference schedule was nowhere near the level of their in conference schedule. But okay, let's keep moving. We keep, we gotta keep going. All right, first up, I want to talk to you about the Big Ten because in your bubble watch piece, I love this, you said that you look at their standings and your matchups and you chuckle and that this team or the Big Ten is filled with enigma of middle of a pack. And I'm looking at their standings and I'm like, you're right. I mean, even at the beginning, I think at the very start of the season, our writers Chantel and Sabrina said they weren't really seeing any standout teams other than OSU and Iowa. And then later on, Indiana found their way up to that top of the pack. I think this still rings true when you look at the middle of this conference like Nebraska, Michigan State, Maryland, Penn State, Michigan, Illinois. Just for those of you listening, what makes you stand back and chuckle, as you mentioned in your piece?
- [21:53]
Mark Schindler
I mean, exactly part of the issue is just it feels like there's like no rhyme or reason for things sometimes, which I know there very much is like for Penn State, unfortunately, Tay Valladay, who has been awesome for them, is out for the season and they're now, I believe, five straight losses. So they went from being like I had them on the seven seed when I did like my very first mock when I was interviewing for this. And now they were on the bubble this week, like, yeah, so it's like unfortunately happens, but I think again, like, okay, well who was it? Somebody lost to Wisconsin the other day and like Wisconsin is playing better recently. Sarah Williams is incredible. But like so much of what's difficult about this conference is everybody just beats each other. So other than Ohio State and Iowa have been fine at the top and Indiana has been coming along as well. But then they lose to Ohio State.
- [22:37]
Zena Keda
And Iowa and it was Penn State that lost to Wisconsin. Penn State is on a five game losing streak. One of those are to Iowa. So you know, we won't include that in there. But Illinois, Wisconsin and Maryland and Illinois and Wisconsin, particularly Wisconsin is kind of like, like you guys are on a Skid a little bit and they've got. Well, this is actually a question I had for you in a little bit, but let me let you finish.
- [22:59]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, no, I mean, it's just tough because, like, again, like, part of what's hard is every team is capable of winning in a power conference night tonight. Some, you know, there are some circuit, not so much, but like, for the most part, like, okay, if you don't show up with your best game against Rutgers, like, they're a rebuilding program, they haven't been as good this year, but you're gonna lose the Rutgers if you don't play a solid game. Like, you can't just come and putts around. And I think again, like, so, so much of like being at the top is being consistent and finding consistency has been a struggle for some of these teams because again, like, injuries play a part and, and you can lose your rhythm. But also, also, like Maryland has had injuries this year, but it's mostly been like, Brenda Freese has talked a ton about this team needing to play a full 40 minutes, which they did today, which was huge for them, but they haven't had that most of this year. So again, like, you have a lot of that up and down kind of rockiness. And yeah, it makes it, it certainly makes it interesting.
- [23:54]
Zena Keda
Interesting. Okay, so now I want to use this conference and use the way that you're evaluating the rankings at the same time, looking at Penn State, particularly five game losing streak, like I said, they lost to Illinois, they lost to Wisconsin, they lost to Maryland. This week. They have OSU up next. All right, OSU leads their conference. They are also number two in the country. How would you evaluate a win against OSU after this recent skid?
- [24:25]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, that would be huge. Like, to me, that's the kind of win that would pull them out of the bubble. Like, I think that's like, yeah, like, obviously. So the way that I've tried to look at it, because technically, like, I learned this just this last week too. Technically, like, we don't use quads in women's basketball, which is interesting.
- [24:43]
Zena Keda
But like, explain quads. What are quads?
- [24:44]
Mark Schindler
Quads are like, it breaks down. I don't love net rankings because I think that there's a lot that goes into it that doesn't necessarily play out on the basketball court. So it's just like a little bit. It's not for me entirely. Like, obviously it's good as a gauge, but not as using it for your entire thing. But the idea with quads is like, okay, So a quad one win is like if you beat one of the 30 top ranked net teams at home, it's a quad one victory. If you were to lose to like a. I think it's top 75 team away, that technically counts as a quad one game. And I think it's top. I think it's top 50 for neutral site. I could be wrong on that, but I don't have it pulled up in front of me right now.
- [25:29]
Zena Keda
Okay.
- [25:29]
Mark Schindler
But point being like there, there are a bunch of stipulations that go into making it. You know how the quads work and there's technically four quads for it.
- [25:35]
Zena Keda
And this is across. The ncaa, like the men's side uses this too. Yeah, interesting. Okay, interesting. We might need you to break that down in your next bracket. Watch for sure. Okay, so Penn State, you know what you gotta do? You gotta beat OSU this week. All right, let's get to the Big 12 because that is the team for me that is the most enigmatic. They are the smoke and mirrors conference to me in the sense that like there's so many of them that have amazing winning records. But I'm looking at who they beat and I'm like, ugh, like take number seven ranked Kansas State. You look at who they've beaten in the preseason or the non Conference games. 69, 35 to Presbyterian, 101, 39 to McNeese, 79, 37 to Jackson State, like these weren't big time wins. Now don't get me wrong, they did beat Iowa, which I think is huge. And they kept close with Iowa the second time that they played them. So that did show their caliber in a way. But outside of that, they've been beating each other like in the conference. And that's been helping, I think, their relevancy and their rankings. But there is one team that stood out to you and when you noticed it and you pointed it out in your bubble, watch. They actually stood out to me too. And that was Kansas. Tell us why.
- [26:52]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, so Kansas is interesting because they first off, they won the WNIT last year and they were very close to making the NCAA tournament, but they did not play super strong schedule last year and they lost, I believe, first round of the tournament kind of unexpectedly. So they ended up being out on the last day in the bubble. And this year, like just talking to some of their assistants, I know, like it was really big for them. They wanted to challenge themselves. They had their entire starting lineup coming back. They wanted to be better prepared for March and like actually have an opportunity to go to play in the NCAA tournament. And part of the yin and yang and balancing that is like they came out, they were closer to 500 once non con was over, I believe 8 and 4. But you look at the games like they had extremely close losses. So like I wrote to, I think they were like, they're like 45 seconds away from being 16 and 8 instead of, you know, at the time what they were so like, you know, it's just a very tough stipulation because like they played Virginia tech, they played UConn and when UConn was like way more healthy.
- [27:48]
Zena Keda
Yeah, yeah, they lost that one.
- [27:51]
Mark Schindler
Lost more. Yeah.
- [27:51]
Zena Keda
Remember that?
- [27:52]
Mark Schindler
Like, yeah, like they played a really tough schedule.
- [27:55]
Zena Keda
They lost by Virginia Tech. It was actually, it was in the. What you wrote about the Cayman Islands Classic, I believe right over Thanksgiving. They lost by one against Virginia Tech and then the next day turned around and lost by eight, which made everyone go, oh, Kansas is. Kansas is showing up like, yes, they're losses, but those are two ranked formidable opponents that they were. They kept close with throughout the game. That's pretty impressive.
- [28:19]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, yeah. So they have that and then like you mentioned, Big 12 play starts and it's just kind of like, oh, what's going on here? Like they lost West Virginia and credit to them that, that that loss looks better now than it did then. I think especially West Virginia picked up, I mean not even arguably it was their biggest win of the season, beating Oklahoma because to their credit, they've beat everybody in front of them. But also they have not played a super strong schedule. Like their win over Penn State early on in the year was probably their best win. And then having this win over Oklahoma was huge. But it wasn't just like a loss. They got bliss. It was they lost 85 to 60. So it's not like, you know, to me like strength, like margin of victory matters. I feel like that should weigh in to a degree. Again, losing to Iowa State, I think was, was pretty like understandable. But then they lose to Texas Tech, I'm like, all right, this is a three games game to start Big 12 play a little bit worried here. And then they beat Baylor and it's like, like to give Baylor their first loss, but finding consistency for them has just been all over the place because they beat Baylor, then they beat OSU after that and then they get just hammered by Texas, but then back to having a close game against Kansas State and now they are, I think sick. Like seven. Yeah, seven and one since, since they lost to Kansas State. And they play Kansas State again soon. She'll be big. I don't know. Aoka's status is still just kind of up and down. She didn't play against UCF yesterday after playing the game before. So now it's just kind of intermittent, it seems like. But to be fair, they've played the lower end of the Big 12. But this is why you play those games at the beginning of the year, because if they find a groove now and they start to get comfortable and I feel like I haven't watched every single Kansas game. I can't watch every single game of every single team. But like they have played better. The move the ball has, hasn't stuck as much. I think their defense has been a little bit more connected, which has been kind of their backbone. Like this team is just playing better basketball. I'm willing to give a lot more credence to a team that went out and tested itself at the beginning of the year. Even if it was losses, they were close losses. They were good. Like those are losses you want to have on your resume because you went out and you played your ass off. And like, to me that matters a lot. So again, like they have to make some stuff happen. I don't really think they can afford to lose another game. Like I had them making the bubble this time so they'll be in like that, that first four. But I mean that's exactly what we're talking about. Like they needed a bunch of teams that were ahead of them to kind of fall behind and that's just kind of how it's going to work, you know, making that whole thing happen. It's, it's exciting times for, for Kansas for sure.
- [30:38]
Zena Keda
I agree. And they've got that very exciting 6, 6 player in the middle, Tiana Jackson, who thinks the other day against BYU she had a 25, 22 game. That is not minutes and points, folks. That is points and rebounds. 25 points and 22 rebounds. And that's not the first time she's done that where, I mean, she's a double double machine for sure. But yeah, they've, they've got a lot of good things going for them as well. Last month they blew Baylor out, by the way. I'm excited to watch them. But Big 12, I don't know, man. The only team I feel like I feel pretty comfortable with their ability to show up against big time teams consistently is Texas, even with the injuries that they've incurred. But maybe I need to watch a few more games. I don't know, we'll see. I mean, the top four teams in their, in their conference, Oklahoma's 18 and seven overall, Texas 24, three overall, West Virginia 22 and three, Kansas State 22 and four. I mean, these are capable teams here and that have been able to be pretty consistent with winning. But now, like you said, they got to catch fire as they're rolling into March Madness. Okay, so now let's move over to the west coast with the PAC 12, this conference, the SEC, the ACC and maybe the Big Ten. I mean, these, I think these are conferences that are just like, is everyone going to go to the tournament? Because they're just packed. They're just absolutely packed. But we spend so much time talking about the UCLA's and the USCS, et cetera. But there are some teams that, there's one team that you called out and wanted to spotlight and that was Washington State. And I want to ask like, this was a team that won the Pac12 before tournament at least, and they have some solid losses even on their calendar. And I want to know, like, what for you, what is it going to take for them to get on the locked in portion of the bubble watch?
- [32:28]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, they're in kind of a tough spot. They split their games this weekend playing against Arizona schools.
- [32:33]
Zena Keda
Oh, and they needed to win those.
- [32:35]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, they need to win both of those, in my opinion, because it's going to be tough because they play Oregon State, Utah and Colorado in three of their last four games. But they're one of the teams where they had obviously Charlize Ledger Walker, their star point guard, unfortunately went out with injury earlier this year, which coincided with them starting to struggle. But picking up that win at UCLA is one of the best wins that, I mean, anybody that isn't an automatic qualifier is going to have. Like, that's such a good win. And it's not even just that. I mean, they are one of two teams that beat Gonzaga this year. They beat Gonzaga in overtime in Pullman, which was a big deal. They beat Maryland. Like, they played a really solid out of conference schedule, did a lot of good things, struggle a little bit to start, and then picked it up. But again, like you look at just like the total body of work and it's the kind of thing where I think you don't want to just totally disqualify them because they had a player getting injured. And I'm interested to see how they keep growing from this. Like, what can they keep stuff together? Obviously there's no silver linings in it, but they've done too much to just discount where they're at in the season. I've really liked just as a shout out like Eleanor Villa has been. They're one of their freshmen, has really stood out and started to play incredibly well, has played well all season, but it stepped up a ton with Charlize out and taking on more of the offense. And it's kind of like, all right, well, what, what kind of mold can they find? They blew out Arizona State today, which, granted, like, Arizona State's the bottom of the pack, you expect that. But getting any kind of win and just continuing to build those is really key for this group. So.
- [34:00]
Zena Keda
Especially in the PAC 12.
- [34:02]
Mark Schindler
Yes, 100%. And I feel like they probably are going to need to make something happen in tournament play because one of the other things that I have to factor in too, like, obviously you can't quote, unquote, factor it in when, when doing it off bat, but, like, you just know stuff's going to happen during the conference tournaments. It's going to turn everything on his head, which is what's difficult. Because even if a team has a really good time, like, like we talked about with Kansas earlier, like, Kansas played really well last year, but just lost in the first round of the tournament, that hurt them because, okay, well, if you have somebody who wins four games in a conference tournament that drastically alters what their resume is, and that means a ton. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
- [34:39]
Zena Keda
I feel like what you feel for Washington State, I feel for Cal Berkley. Do you feel the same way about them?
- [34:44]
Mark Schindler
I like Cal. I think they, they've been really competitive all year. I really like what Charlotte Smith has going there. I don't think they're out of conference, was quite as good as Washington State. I don't think they have, like, quite the same marking wins. Like, their win at Auburn is really solid. I like that one for them. They lost a close game in overtime to Gonzaga, but I think, like, top to bottom, like, to be fair to Eastern, Washington was a really good win. Like, they have good wins on it. But in terms of, like, talking about, like, all right, well, we have like this big Power 5 win. They don't have that. And again, like, the other thing that separates it, like, not having that UCLA win is massive. Like, if Cal has the win over UCLA@ UCLA, I think this is a team that's probably in the bubble, like in that first four teams or pretty close to it, because other than this game that they just played against Stanford on Friday. They just really have not struggled with being competitive this year. Well, I should just say was Stanford in general, but I mean, they've been very solid.
- [35:40]
Zena Keda
Yeah, I saw them against USC and that was quite the competition. I mean, they took them all the way to the end of the game. They have an interesting, an assortment of players, but Martis Suarez is like someone that I don't think gets enough attention. She is a fascinating big guard type forward. Like she could take it to the basket, she could shoot really well. She uses her size really well and then her moves to the basket are guard like. But they have a team that can all shoot, that can all make it to the basket. They can guard pretty one through five. I think too obviously I'm in the Bay Area, so I've seen them play a little bit more than other teams, but yeah, no, I think that a team like California, a team like Washington State, a team like Washington even.
- [36:21]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, Washington's the one.
- [36:22]
Zena Keda
Yeah, Washington's the one.
- [36:24]
Mark Schindler
That's really tough.
- [36:25]
Zena Keda
Yeah, they're going to be the teams and I think that there's equivalence in other conferences too, but they're going to be the ones to watch in the tournaments, right? In the tournaments. That's when you're going to see the anybody can get it on any given night type of play. I think you'll be shocked as who's going to end up winning these tournaments. Because UCLA, USC, I mean, probably favorites to win the Pac12 tournament. No. Colorado 2. I don't know. I don't know. Everybody, Everybody. Everybody throw them all in.
- [36:52]
Mark Schindler
Exactly. Because nobody, I shouldn't say nobody thought. But very few people thought Washington State was going to win the Pac12 tournament last year, so.
- [36:58]
Zena Keda
Exactly.
- [36:59]
Mark Schindler
And they were good. It's not that they were a bad team. It's. But it's like exactly what we're talking about. Like, okay, well, is the fourth or fifth best team in the conference going to come out of nowhere and win the Pac12 title this year? Yeah, I don't know, man. Maybe Utah just comes out of nowhere and says it's our title this year. But like, I mean, I do just have to say with Washington, like, Washington is like eerily reminiscent of Oregon State last year where Oregon State lost a million close games was in everything. And that has been Washington to its heat. They have dropped now. They've lost their last four games by the. The point differential doesn't even do it. Like, they've played six overtimes in their last four games and their, their own four and it's like, that's so tough. Like, they play. I was talking about this with a player the other day, and like, the way that they dictate play with their defense and just pace is. Is crazy. And it's so hard for other teams to play against. But again, it's just been like they're in such a tough spot where if, even if they just won two of those four, like, I think that they're in the bubble. But right now, like, I would have them just kind of comfortably out of the bubble because you don't pull those together. But it's like, it's such small differentials that piece it apart, man.
- [38:04]
Zena Keda
Man, I feel like the pro level, clutch minutes or like overtimes, like, that's. That's insane. Six overtimes is a lot. All right. Well, again, I feel like PAC12, ACC, particularly those two, their tournaments are going to be crazy. Lots of fun. You never know who's going to win, who's going to, you know, get to the top there. Okay. We're like, way over time because this is amazing. And Mark, you're awesome. So before I let you go, I just want to one love that you wrote in your bubble watch and your bracket watch. You gave some love to Fairfield and Gonzaga. You taught me something. I did not know that Fairfield was the only other school with less than two wins. Right. Than South Carolina. Right. It's South Carolina has zero losses, obviously, they're undefeated. And then Fairfield is where, I believe.
- [38:50]
Mark Schindler
22 or 21 and one right now. And they just had a crazy game to you because they've been dealing with some injuries, but they were down 12 to Mount St. Mary's on Saturday and came back and won it on a crazy last second play. It was a beautiful play call. But yeah, like, they continue to be an absolute blast to watch.
- [39:08]
Zena Keda
There you go. And then more mid major, but they're not. They're mid major technically on like the NCAA's rules, but they're not a mid major. Let's be real. Gonzaga also giving them some love, too. You've already mentioned them in some of the wins that other teams have gotten. But thoughts on the Gonzaga really quickly.
- [39:25]
Mark Schindler
They're awesome. I love them so much. It was so funny because I like, I mean, I always have score alerts on my phone to keep up with what's going on. And I mean, I will watch them throughout WCC play, but it's mainly like, if a game gets close, I want to see how they react. And they were down one at halftime to Pacific who they this was their third time playing Pacific and they had blown Pacific out the last few times and Pacific solid too. Like they're around the middle of the wcc but they, they gave people trouble in non con but they came out and I think they had a 28 to 14 third quarter and like it's, they just, they are a buzzsaw. They have not played a single game in the WCC in single digits. They very clearly took this season as a we are going to do everything, everything we can to be higher in the tournament next year. And we're taking not that they didn't take it seriously last year, but I think you know from talking to people there they were like very serious about we need to dominate the WCC this year, improve it and they've done it.
- [40:19]
Zena Keda
There you go. And by the way, for those of you that don't know WCC is Western Coast Conference and they're why they're considered mid major is because they don't have a Power 5 football. They're not a school that sponsors a football bowler, whatever. So basically that's why you're considered mid major. It's based off football, which is crap. But anyways, okay, this is amazing and I'm really, really happy that you brought up a really cool buzzer beater last second type of shot game because there were so many of those this weekend. But there was one particularly in the pack 12. And Chantelle Jennings is actually going to speak with the person that got to call the game for today's off the script. Shantel. Take it away.
- [41:06]
Chantelle Jennings
Thanks so much for that awesome conversation, Zena and Mark. Now we are going to actually toss it over to the West Coast. I'm so excited to be talking with Anne Schatz today. She is a longtime sports writer, a broadcaster, play by play since 2005. She's been with the Pac12 Network since its inception. And in my opinion, Ann had maybe the most exciting finish in basketball that I've ever seen. She was on the mic for it on Friday night as Oregon State took down UCLA. 79, 77. And it's an honor to have you here today, but especially after that game on Friday.
- [41:45]
Anne Schatz
Well, I appreciate that. I'm still kind of floating, to be honest with you. I blink a little bit, go back and watch, especially the last quarter and it's all kind of still in the blender. But it's easily one of the coolest times of my life professionally and it was an honor to be a part of it.
- [42:04]
Chantelle Jennings
So I want to dive into what it was like to call that game. Because when I reached out to you, I said, I want to talk to someone who called three game winners before calling an actual game winner. For those of our listeners who maybe did not see it because this was some PAC12 after dark action, here's a quick rundown. UCLA was down 2 and with 6.9 seconds left, Dugalic, who's only a 32% 3 point shooter, drained the most clutch 3 from the top of the key you've ever seen. At 2.9 seconds, Oregon State down one. They took their time out, advanced the ball side out of bounds, quick drive from til on Olhoffen. So they go up one with 0.1 seconds left again. Timeout, advance the ball. Women's basketball for the win. Kiki Rice inbounds on the side directly to six'seven Lauren Betts, who has maybe taken a handful of jump shots outside of, you know, three to four feet away from the bucket during the season. She's money. UCLA goes up 1. We assume everyone that that is the game winner. You said Bets for the win. And then Oregon State's down one. The refs go back, they add a second to the clock, one point, one second remaining. Timeout, advance the ball. Stack screens kind of near the free throw line. Talia pops out and maybe two, two and a half, three feet beyond the three point line sinks a three for the actual win. So I guess as you're listening back to me, explain this. Like, what are you thinking about? What moments stand out to you from an incredible 6.9 seconds of women's college basketball?
- [43:39]
Anne Schatz
You're not kidding. I mean, you broke it down. But the frenetic pace. This wasn't one of those deals where even with all the timeouts, every coach kind of eyeballing, both coaches eyeballing each other, the team's eyeballing each other. You call timeout, I call a timeout, I'm going to call another timeout. It just went so fast. And what I thought was really interesting is when bets hits that shot, the clock keeps going a little bit and it that game is, is over until to your point, the refs say no, no, no, no, and accurately put the one second. Now we've got action. And when Oregon State looks to inbound that ball initially, their superb freshman Donovan Hunter is the one inbounding the ball. She didn't like what she saw. She understood the timeout situation. She understood the angle wasn't there, had the perspicacity to call a timeout. They re huddled Again. And then Hansford, the left hander, is going to inbound. She's the three point ace and yet she's going to inbound this ball. She's a left hander, inbounds it against her body to a wide open to Leah. UCLA closes, but not nearly quickly enough. It's not an easy shot, but it's not some prayer that she's jacking up that has no chance. And how in the world did that go in from the second it left her hand? You thought, I think that's good. And I get the chills thinking about it. And the place which had been going berserk takes another level of nuttiness and is just. It was something to behold. I wanted to take my headset off and just take it all in, to be honest with you. I really wanted to do that. Yeah.
- [45:22]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, well, first of all, Perspicacity. Ann, my goodness, what a word. I just had to google that. The quality of having a ready insight into things, shrewdness. Hopefully I can sneak that into a story at some point this season because what a perfect word for that moment. I think that's kind of how I felt. Re watching that was like, I don't know if I've ever seen so much, so many clutch plays offensively down the stretch. And you talk perfection. The level of women's basketball from calling the right plays, getting the right people in the right places at the right time, but then for the players to knock down these shots and make the right decisions, it was just sort of executed perfectly. And I say this coming off, I was in Iowa City for Caitlin Clark's record breaking performance. And I've told people, you know, I haven't been in a setting like that where I sort of see a player elevate into a. Just a different plane. Like it felt different from anything I've seen in terms of an individual performance and just someone who was playing somewhere else. But then I watched this game and specifically those last 6.9 seconds, and you think this, like, are we living in a scripted world? Because it's just so perfect. Like everything was so perfect. And you said you kind of just wanted to take the headset off. I thought your call was perfect. You were on it with Jennifer Mountain. We should give a shout out there as well. But how did you sort of balance taking everything in, processing it, putting it in perspective of what was happening, but also just as someone that loves this game, appreciating the moment.
- [46:59]
Anne Schatz
Boy, that was kind of tough. And yet it all happened so fast. And of course you remember. And you know this, you just remember this is about the kids. It's their moment. Inform and then be quiet for a little bit, which Ann, just pump the brakes, let the crowd tell the story. Let the emotion of on both sides, you know, watching Kiki Rice literally sink to her knees, I get the chills on that too, because everything was perfect for both teams until it wasn't for ucla. But just to let the pictures, the emotions and just to appreciate it that very second, you, Ann, just got the gift of being a part of one of the coolest games that anyone will have ever seen or have been a part of. And you got to be in the mix. So remember who this is about and shut your trap a little bit and let, let, let this crowd, this nutty, crazy record setting and far as far as student section attendance, let them take over. It was then it got kind of easy. Just let them go.
- [48:07]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, I loved what you said. You said, she's got it, she's got it, she's got it. Like, I've never called play by play. I've never done broadcasting like that. But I mean, at that point you're just reacting, right? Like you're just soaking in the moment and sort of being a mirror of what is happening in the arena. Because it was, the game was in Corvallis, which was another sort of perfect moment of this. Like you were saying, let the crowd tell this story. Because it wasn't that Talia silenced a crowd. It was that this, you know, women's basketball fan base there that has loved this team this season, you know, just roared. They roared and it was incredible.
- [48:46]
Anne Schatz
You know, you look at a UCLA team up by seven with three minutes to go, and not a single soul in that building thought, well, you know, maybe we should beat the traffic and go home. That's not how they roll at Gill Coliseum, and that's not how they roll in Corvallis. And what's really cool is last year this team really, really struggled. And I mean in epic proportions compared to the ruic years that these fans have come to know love and kind of expect. So last year, by their standards, by the Beaver standards, pretty abysmal. And the crowds still kept coming. So this year, to me, this is a reward for players like Julia Von Olhoffen, who was hurt most of last year, had to shut things down in February with that meniscus injury, head of nose busted. Just taken on a different role last year.
- [49:43]
Zena Keda
Yuck.
- [49:45]
Anne Schatz
And nobody quit on each other. Fans didn't quit on the Kids, kids didn't quit on the fans. And this year, Oregon State pick 10th. Nobody gives a rat's patootie about them. Nobody. Nobody outside that locker room thinks about them at all until this last month. And now, if you vote right now, if you vote right now, coach of the year, without question, in the PAC 12, best conference, in my opinion, in the country, is Scott Roark.
- [50:13]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I mean, we talked about the Beavers on the podcast last week, and one of the points I had made was you looked at their overall record last year and you thought, man, what a tough year in Corvallis. And it was. But they lost a lot of close games last year.
- [50:27]
Anne Schatz
You bet they did.
- [50:28]
Chantelle Jennings
When you look at teams that turn the corner the year before they do that, they learn the difference between losing close games and winning close games. And I haven't talked about since Friday, but this was, again, a game of execution, where down the stretch, truly, like when you have four game winners in 6.9 seconds, truly, every millisecond matters. And Oregon State knew exactly how to use every single one of those.
- [50:56]
Anne Schatz
Whoever had the ball last was going to win because of that execution factor. Nobody blinked. It's just that the clock ran out on ucla.
- [51:04]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, last question for you, Ann. You had said it was. It was just one of these moments that you appreciated as someone that covers sports has done so since 1980. In that time, have you seen a finish that is more exciting than this?
- [51:20]
Anne Schatz
No way. No way. I don't care what level men's, women's basket. Nothing can compare what the last 10 seconds with, the last seven seconds were like with these wonderful teams and these wonderful coaches and those kids. The right people were out there, and these women were basking in the challenge. They loved being in this setting with the stakes this high. And I've never experienced, witnessed, been a part of anything like it. And it. When I laid my head on the pillow after that game, I just kind of thought to myself, what just happened? And I. I think I'll forever remember this as one of the most special moments professionally ever for me.
- [52:09]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I don't know how you top this. I mean, watching it. And again, just listening. Your call was perfect, absolutely perfect. And to sort of encapsulate that moment in real time. And I think it's a credit to you and who you are as a person and a broadcaster that you're able to put it in the context of the moment, but also to sort of understand because you've followed the conference for as long as you have, and this team, specifically that the story in that moment really was sort of letting those fans who did stick with this team through a tough season last year sort of letting them and that emotion tell the story of the moment. It was Chef's Kiss and just, just perfect.
- [52:51]
Anne Schatz
You made my day. And hats off to both of those teams for putting on classic epic, I'll never forget it in a million years show. And anyone who watched it or even go back, go back and YouTube it and watch it and just let it play. And just remember, these are young people loving what they do and doing it at their very best. It was. It was flipping cool.
- [53:16]
Chantelle Jennings
Awesome. Well, Anne, I hope that you have more calls. I mean, I just Hope that the Pac12 season, I think it will continue to just rise up through the rest of the season. The level that we've seen out of that conference so far, the parody. I hope you have more exciting calls. And when you do, we will definitely have you back on the athletic women's basketball show to talk about it. Thanks so much for being here.
- [53:39]
Anne Schatz
Thank you. It's been an honor. You're one of my favorites of all time. I'm a lot older than you, but you are an inspiration to me. So to be on a show with you, that's pretty, pretty damn good. So thank you for that.
- [53:51]
Chantelle Jennings
Back at you.
- [53:58]
Mark Schindler
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- [54:25]
Anne Schatz
It's Tony and Ryan from the Tony and Ryan Podcast from Down Under.
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Mark Schindler
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Zena Keda
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Anne Schatz
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Mark Schindler
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Anne Schatz
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Anne Schatz
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