Caitlin Clark Returns & Angel Reese Shines + The Birth of Ellie

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Caitlin Clark Returns & Angel Reese Shines + The Birth of Ellie"

Release Date: June 17, 2025

Hosts: Zena Keita, Chantel Jennings, Sabreena Merchant, and Ben Pickman

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1. Indiana Fever's Triumphant Return: Caitlin Clark Shines

The episode kicks off with an in-depth analysis of the Indiana Fever's recent game against the New York Liberty, highlighting the electrifying return of star player Caitlin Clark after a three-week hiatus due to a quad strain.

Ben Pickman shares his firsthand experience from attending the game in Indianapolis:

“Caitlin Clark’s return was a spectacle. From the moment she touched the ball, the energy in the arena skyrocketed” (02:30)

Sabrina Merchant emphasizes the impact of Clark’s performance:

“Despite missing 19 days, Caitlin’s ability to incorporate her teammates seamlessly showcased her resilience and leadership” (03:59)

A pivotal moment discussed is when Clark hits a critical three-pointer over Brianna Stewart, igniting the crowd and shifting the game's momentum:

"Every time she hit the three, the crowd went wild. It was a testament to her skill and determination" – Stephanie White (05:00)

2. Strategic Lineups and Team Dynamics

The hosts delve into Indiana's strategic use of a small-ball lineup, which proved instrumental in their victory. Sabrina Merchant highlights the effectiveness of spacing and guard play:

“Indiana’s approach mirrored a face-in-space strategy, pushing the tempo and utilizing their guard skills to the fullest” (07:24)

Discussions also cover the Commissioner's Cup standings, with Ben Pickman outlining potential scenarios that could influence the playoff seeds:

“If Indiana beats Connecticut and New York takes care of their games, Indiana could clinch the East” (15:05)

Sabrina Merchant provides her rankings, moving Indiana Fever up to third place based on their recent performance and strategic gameplay:

“With Caitlin back, Indiana’s offensive and defensive strategies are aligning perfectly, justifying their rise in the standings” (13:29)

3. Phoenix Mercury's Resilience and Roster Adjustments

The episode shifts focus to the Phoenix Mercury’s recent win over the Las Vegas Aces, despite missing key player Asia Wilson due to concussion protocol. Sabrina Merchant praises the emergence of Sammy Wickham in a new role:

“Sammy Wickham stepping in as a microwave scorer off the bench was a game-changer and showcased Phoenix’s depth” (17:17)

Ben Pickman discusses the pivotal moments in the game where Phoenix maintained stability:

“Despite the absence of Asia Wilson, Phoenix demonstrated remarkable depth and adaptability” (20:36)

4. Angel Reese's Stellar Performance

Angel Reese's remarkable triple-double performance is a highlight of the episode. Sabrina Merchant notes her evolution into a versatile playmaker:

“Angel’s transition to a facilitator has been seamless, elevating her game and the Lynx’s overall performance” (23:08)

Ben Pickman complements Reese’s adaptability:

“Her ability to facilitate and rebound has made her an indispensable asset to the team” (23:16)

5. Tragic Events and WNBA's Activism: Minnesota Lynx

A somber segment addresses the tragic assassination of Minnesota lawmakers Melissa Hortman and Mark, and the broader impact on the WNBA community. Sabrina Merchant reflects on the Lynx’s legacy of activism:

“The Minnesota Lynx have always been at the forefront of social justice, and this tragedy underscores their commitment to speaking out” (27:17)

Zena Keita emphasizes the league's role in activism:

“WNBA teams lead by example, using their platforms to advocate for change and support their communities” (29:17)

6. Exclusive Interview: The Birth of Ellie the Elephant

A special interview with Shayna Stevenson, Chief Brand Officer of the New York Liberty, explores the creation and rise of Ellie the Elephant, the team’s beloved mascot.

Ellie’s Origin Story: Shayna details the creative process behind selecting an elephant as the new mascot, drawing inspiration from Brooklyn’s historical ties and the symbolic strength of elephants:

“Ellie embodies the resilience and diversity of Brooklyn, connecting deeply with our community and fans” (33:15)

Cultural Impact: Ellie has transcended typical mascot roles, becoming a cultural icon within the queer community and broader Brooklyn culture. Shayna highlights key moments that skyrocketed Ellie’s popularity:

“When Cardi B tweeted about Ellie’s TikTok dance, it was a pivotal moment that catapulted her into the national spotlight” (38:42)

Representation and Inclusivity: Ellie’s design and persona were meticulously crafted to reflect inclusivity and representation, ensuring every fan feels connected:

“We wanted Ellie to be a symbol that every fan can see themselves in, fostering a sense of belonging and community” (40:09)

7. Interactive Segment: Two Takes and a Fake

The hosts conclude with a fun trivia game where Zena Keita presents three predictions, and Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman guess which one is fake.

Zena’s Predictions:

1. Breonna Jones will be among the top 10 shooting bigs in the WNBA by season’s end.
2. Natalie Nakase will win Coach of the Year.
3. The Las Vegas Aces will make a trade deadline move.

After deliberation, Sabrina and Ben identify the second take as the fake prediction:

“We believe Natalie Nakase winning Coach of the Year is a stretch” (53:04)

Zena reveals the outcome, reaffirming the dynamic and engaging nature of their discussions.

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Conclusion

This episode of No Offseason offers a comprehensive exploration of pivotal moments in women’s basketball, from standout player performances and strategic team dynamics to cultural phenomena like Ellie the Elephant. The hosts provide insightful analysis, enriched with firsthand accounts and expert opinions, making it an essential listen for fans eager to stay informed and engaged with the ever-evolving landscape of women’s basketball.

Key Quotes:

• Ben Pickman on Caitlin Clark’s impact: “Caitlin Clark’s return was a spectacle. From the moment she touched the ball, the energy in the arena skyrocketed” (02:30)
• Stephanie White describing Clark’s three-pointer: “Every time she hit the three, the crowd went wild. It was a testament to her skill and determination” (05:00)
• Sabrina Merchant on Indiana’s lineup: “Indiana’s approach mirrored a face-in-space strategy, pushing the tempo and utilizing their guard skills to the fullest” (07:24)

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For more insights and stories from the world of women’s basketball, subscribe to No Offseason on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Zena Kada]

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[Ben Pickman]

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[Zena Kada]

Hello everyone and welcome to no Off Season presented by Amazon Business. I'm Zena Kaeda.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Kada]

Today on the show, it was quite a weekend in the wnba. Caitlin Clark is back, baby. And Angel Reese made history and the Lynx did what they've done. They stood up and they spoke out and we've got thoughts. Then Ben is joined by a very special guest, one of the people responsible for bringing you Big Ellie, not the small one. If you are ever curious as to how Ellie came to be and how she became an icon, look no further. And then after that, I got two takes and a fake. We'll see if they can figure out which one is real. All right, Ben, you were on the road as always and you got to finally see a good game in person. The basketball gods were kind to you. Tell us about the game you watched.

[Unknown Speaker]

The basketball gods were very kind to me. Xena. I was in Indianapolis for Fever against the New York Liberty. Caitlin Clark's return after three weeks away having dealt with that quad strain and you know, setting the scene like, you know, people always flock to Fever games early. There's always a lot of energy outside early, and especially so on this Saturday afternoon, really, for two reasons. Number one, I think the fans just needed to cheer about something because the game was literally like 12 hours after the Pacers had lost in Game 4 of the WNBA Finals. So, like, inside the arena. NBA Finals. Right. It's your NBA Finals. Inside the arena, there were still all these stickers and, like, things up on the wall and some signage related to the NBA Finals. So that caught my eye. And number two, Campbell Clark was back. And so, you know, they had grown used to. She had signed autographs, she was taking selfies pre game, like it still had all that hype. But then she got on the floor and, you know, one of the first things that struck me was literally in the first couple minutes, every time she touched the basketball, brought it up the court, you know, grabbed a rebound, fans just started to cheer like they were just so, so excited to see her out there, to see her playing. And that doesn't even get to what happened at the end of the first quarter when she buries those three threes and 38 seconds, all, you know, well beyond the three point arc. And it was like, wow, Caitlin Clark is back. That was literally Stephanie White's words. She described it as, like, the wow moment. And, you know, we can get into that game some, but the scene was pretty electric from there on out.

[Zena Kada]

I can imagine that final score ended up pretty being the same thing. 10288, Indiana's favor, of course. And watching Caitlin Clark, I mean, it was surreal thinking she had missed 19 days. You could see she was huffing and puffing, but that was not impacting the way that she actually came out and incorporated her teammates. All I kept thinking as I watched that game is, damn, I know Indiana's happy. They're like, oh, we got our girl back, Sabrina. I know that they were happy to see her because especially, you know, they've been needing some organization out on the court. But also, this is a big game. They take down the undefeated Liberty, and now there are no more undefeated teams in the league. Talk a little bit about just that moment when Caitlin Clark hits that three over Brianna Stewart. And Brianna can't even do anything like Stewie's, just like, this is ridiculous. And as they're coming back, even Caitlyn, like, pushed through it a little bit playfully, and they're just like, this is ridiculous. I cannot believe you're doing this.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, that was my favorite part of the game. Uh, like you mentioned, she's on the right wing a good, like, five six feet behind the three point line, as was the norm for most for three point attempts on Saturday's game. Uh, she hits the three over Stewie again. Stewie with like the seven foot wingspan, she hits the three over StewIe. She smiles at her, just sort of like pokes her a little, you know, and like, Stewie just can't help but laugh because this is what great players do, right? Like, Stewie has been on the other side of that moment so many times delivering to somebody else. And I just love the appreciation, right? Like, Caitlyn already seems to be on that level of someone who you can just dish with during the course of a game, who you can talk to. Like, it was, it was very fun to watch.

[Unknown Speaker]

I actually asked Stewie about it on Monday afternoon at practice. I was like, just what do you remember? What feedback have you gotten from friends, peers, teammates about like that clip? Because I think everyone really saw that clip. And Stewie kind of walked me through it just being like, I basically knew what move she was gonna make. Like, she's well beyond the three point line. She knew that, you know, she wants to go left, that that step back is in her bag. And then Stewie was like, but what can you kind of do? Like, as you're talking about Sabrina? Like, you just kind of, you tip your cap, basically, is what Ste he said. And then, you know, the laughing was just like this organic moment between the two of them. And Stere kind of made a joke that, like, you know, everyone's kind of being a good sport about it. You know, it was a great play on both sides. And look, Indiana gets the final laugh of the game. But I will say, like, you know, there's no reason, not that anyone is clowning Brianna Stewart for her defense on that play, but Stewie ended up guarding Caitlin really the entire fourth quarter because New York has been playing without Leon with who's at Euro basket. And Caitlin did not score in the fourth quarter. Like, we saw some really, really, like, you know, grade A defense from Brianna Stewart on Caitlin Clark in the fourth quarter. Just, of course, the play that everyone remembers is that, that step back for good reason. Stewie remembers it too.

[Zena Kada]

Absolutely. And I'm happy you brought up Leona Fibich being out because obviously that impacts the size, the tree length size of what New York is typically. But if you looked at the Indiana side, like Aaliyah Boston was the only post player that was really in the high levels of minutes in that game. She ended up playing 29 minutes. But even so, no other Post player played over 15. Natasha Howard, Damaris Santos. Like, there was not a large presence on the floor in the first three quarters. Particularly what was going well for Indiana with that small ball lineup, Sabrina. And what was not necessarily going well for New York, especially with the absence of a Jonquil Jones and Leonie Fibich.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I mean, you hit on it like when you don't have Jonquil Jones, when you don't have Leonie Fubich. It allows other teams to experiment more, right? Like we see so many teams struggle against the size of the Liberty because they are so long and so big at every position, right? Like Leonie Fibic is a six, four, two guard. It's ridiculous, you know, like now she's playing the three, you know, with Natasha Cloud in there, but she can toggle between those positions. And in the end it had a little bit more flexibility without jj, you know, without like. I think Niara Savli was still on a bit of a restriction too. So it was a much smaller New York team than you'd mostly see. And that allowed the Fever to play to their strengths, I think, which is they had one center on the court at all times. That was 29 minutes of Aaliyah Boston and then about 11 of Damaris Dantas and then they played some Natasha Howard. But they had a lot more success when Sophie Cunningham or Lexi Hull was that nominal power forward. And I think Sophie was a plus 28 or something during the course of that game. Which single game, plus minus. Yeah, whatever. But like, sorry, plus 31 ended up being my bad undersold Sophie Cunningham's accomplishments there. But yeah, I think I just like the way the Fever look when they can space the floor. Everybody's a shooting threat other than, you know, the four out, one in. And Aaliyah Boston can facilitate from the middle of the court. She had, I think six assists during that game too. So it's just fun to watch Indiana play kind of more like the Pacers, right? Like a face in space game where they just push the tempo and have a lot of guard skilled players on the court who can do things with the ball in their hands. And they don't play like that a ton because I feel like I've mentioned this a bunch of times. Indiana's roster has six bigs on it out of 11 players, which I don't understand why they did that during the offseason, but I like when they take advantage of all of their really talented perimeter players. Like this was the first game where we got Sidney Coulson playing as just another player, not like Caitlin Clark's backup. Right? Like she got to play two guard minutes next to Caitlin or you know, she was the point guard and Caitlin was the off ball guard. And I think leaning more into their perimeter players, more of their guards, it just looks more like what Caitlin wants to play and I think what the FIFA are going to be most successful at.

[Unknown Speaker]

Sabrina, I have, I have a quick trivia question for you. Based on the lineup stat of the Cunningham, Hull, Mitchell, Clark and Boston, what do you think their net rating is this year? That five person group?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I feel like this is a trick question, but I'm gonna say like plus 24.

[Unknown Speaker]

How about plus 97.4 possessions? How many minutes is that now? It's only 11 minutes of sample. So it's admittedly a really small sample and it speaks just how dominant they were on Saturday afternoon. Just like Indiana going small really was, you know, one of the adjustments that flipped that game in the third quarter. And you know, Sandy Brandella talked about it a little bit, you know, on Monday afternoon too, to some reporters who were at Liberty practice. Like they were not expecting necessarily India to go as small as they did because as I mentioned, like, that's not a lineup they have trotted out. And what that did is it just makes it hard to match up Hunt in the same way. Right. Because like you can suddenly switch screens and. And we saw from New York there was just. They got stagnant on the offensive end of the floor. Now part of that is without jj, who often is a stabilizing force that they can just dump the ball down into and let her, you know, post up, pass out of the post. She can shoot over players like she's such a matchup problem. We saw how important she was in flipping the first game between these two teams in that fourth quarter. Really her play at the start of the period, I want to say she had 14 points in that first meeting in the fourth quarter alone was why New York was able to come back without her. Like, New York just got really, really stagnant. And playing against like this small, switchable, uber athletic lineup, it's just hard to, to just like find weaknesses. Right? And that is exactly what we saw from the New York end. And it. What's what we saw from the Indian. I think we've talked about it like this is a lineup of playing hall and Cunningham. We want to see more and more as the season progresses. Obviously, Clark was kind of her injury was the headliner when she went out. But Sophie Cunningham Missed, I want to say what, the last four or five games too. And getting her back is really consequential for the Indiana Fever for this reason. Because now suddenly you have not only another ball handler, another shooter, but someone who can, you know, guard up really like 1 through 3, but can also switch on a fours when the situation calls upon it. And so like, look, we've seen the success we've seen. It's a small sample. I'm just really curious. Are. Is Indiana going to lean into this lineup more going forward? Because we've seen the success of it and there's no reason to suggest that it won't have as much success going forward, you know, against teams they play.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, and just like one more stat regarding that Indiana small lineup. I mean, they took 35 three pointers in this game. I pointed it out in the piece that ran on the Athletic on Monday, but they hadn't taken even 33 pointers in any other game. And that just seems like malpractice to me. When you have a player like Caitlin Clark who can create good three pointers basically on every single offensive possession, like they should be getting the ball up from long range. So for them to at least admittedly they hit a lot of shots. It looks better when you hit the shots, But I think 30 plus is the range they should be thinking for the number of three pointers attempted anyway.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah, leaning into the small ball lineup when you have majority post players on your team is going to be a task. I think Stephanie White is up to it. I think what was really interesting about that game too is that not only did they have shots going up from outside, it perfectly allowed the spacing, perfectly allowed for Kelsey Mitchell's game to be on display because she's a penetrator. She gets to the rack, she gets into the paint, she gets fouled. And so it was this perfect balance between Caitlin Clark's gravity outside allowed open room for Kelsey Mitchell to play inside. Now this was very important and impressive because this game nullified Brianna Stewart's 24 points and Sabrina Unescu's 34 points. I mean, you'd forget that every time a shot went up, Sabrina had an answer. Sabrina Unescu was up there just battling for a team, but they couldn't get anything out of, you know, Kennedy Burke and Natasha Cloud and the rest of their crew. And so this is a really big win for Indiana, which kind of brings me into ranking standings, you know, moving up the ladder. Yes, folks, I am teasing it. It's Sabrina Scale time, folks. It's been a while. We didn't have it properly last week and y' all were missing it. So we're. We're back. We're back. We're here. Thinking with that game in mind, Sabrina, how do you think this game impacted the Fevers ranking for you and particularly what part of it of that game stood out for you to move them up or down?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I moved them up to three and they were I think fifth my standings last week. So you know, a little jump which I was tried it a little bit poor because they did go one and one last week losing to the Atlanta Drew in one of those games. But I like to think about exactly how they are in this moment and with Caitlin back, it's just a really good team, you know, and the way they played is exactly how I've been hoping Indiana is going to play for this season. Caitlin looks good, Aaliyah looks good, Kelsey looks good. And that big three, like offensively is just about as good as any in the league. So, you know, it didn't seem right to move them ahead of Minnesota or New York because again, those teams only suffered their first losses of the season this past week and Indiana has a few more than that. But the ceiling that they can hit, you know, with Caitlin I think is, you know, right back in that home court advantage contenders fear that I'd hoped for at the start of the season. So that's what got him back to that level.

[Zena Kada]

I'm really curious to see if Indiana's defense is going to withstand some of these other teams coming up for them because honestly, yes, their offense was on fire but their defense was really good too against New York. But I don't know how much it was New York's personal like attack on themselves from having a stagnant offense versus the defense of Indiana forcing them into, you know, lower production.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know we've talked about, you know, Sabrina's power rankings, but we should also mention that the victory for the Fever was significant.

[Zena Kada]

Sorry, Sabrina, scale apologies on it.

[Unknown Speaker]

We should also acknowledge that the victory had legitimate implications from the actual standings and specifically the WWE Commissioner's cup standings because Actual standings.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Does he care about the Commissioner's cup standings now?

[Unknown Speaker]

So it's a fair point. We'll have to save that for another episode. Maybe the July 1 episode when the final takes place place. But with the win, Indiana past New York, you know, leapfrog New York, who again had been undefeated but now suddenly they are no longer the New York Liberty in the driver's seat to host this Commissioner's cup final. And instead, like here, this situation in the East, Atlanta plays New York on Tuesday. If Atlanta beats New York, Atlanta will win the east, the Commissioner's cup standings, because Atlanta had defeated Indiana. Sabrina mentioned earlier in the week in the Commissioners cup play, if New York wins and beats Atlanta and Connecticut beats Indiana, then New York is going to win the East. But if New York beats Atlanta and Indiana beats Connecticut, which is, you know, some might say a likely outcome for the, you know, gambling odds at least going off Vegas lines, then Indiana would win the East. So even with Caitlin Clark missing the time that she did, if New York beats the Dream and the Fever beat Connecticut, all these games on Tuesday night, then Indiana would win the East. We should just say on the West, I can just run through the quick scenarios that really it's going to come down to Minnesota or Seattle. If Minnesota beats Las Vegas, Minnesota wins the West. If Minnesota loses to Vegas and Seattle loses to the Sparks, then Minnesota also wins the West. And if Minnesota loses to Vegas and Seattle beats the Sparks, then Seattle wins the West. So those are your kind of teams that are still up for grabs as it relates to Commissioners cup play and trying to make this championship game on July 1.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Speaking of Vegas odds, I think it is the biggest upset that you were the one to say that on the podcast.

[Zena Kada]

I will say this. This is the only time that standings, east, west matter. Don't think about east west when it comes to the playoffs, folks. Literally, the Commissioner's cup is the only time you can actually look at the map and be like, oh, east versus West. Okay, just remember that. Thank you for that breakdown, Ben. You know, let's keep talking through the Sabrina Scales. And Sabrina, I'm curious. Phoenix was interesting for me this, this week because Kopper came back, they got the win over the Aces 7670. And we talked about we don't know what it's going to look like when KA comes back into this mix. And is it better that they're trying to figure themselves out before KA comes in? But now she's here, she's there. They got to win. What did you see in that game?

[Sabrina Merchant]

So we should specify this was a Vegas team that was missing Asia Wilson because she's in concussion protocol. So good win in Las Vegas, but, you know, without the reigning mvp. So that makes things easier, right? Especially like a team that doesn't really play traditional center. You don't miss that so much against Vegas when they don't have Asia Wilson. But I thought the most interesting thing About Kyle Hopper coming back was that it put Sammy Wickham into a role that I think is a lot more familiar for her, which is this sixth woman microwave scorer off the bench. And she looked fantastic running that second year. She was microwaving exactly right.

[Zena Kada]

She's doing it. Heating up.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. So Kai, you know, I think is going to take a little bit of time to get back to her full level. She looked good getting to the pull up. Right. Hit a few of Those games with 11 points, physically looked right. Which I think is the most important thing you're hoping for somebody coming off of a knee surgery. But I think, you know, they've been doing this really strict Alyssa Thomas, Satu Sablee, Sagar, just to make sure that there's somebody who can always control the offense on the court at any given time. To have Sammy on the bench too, I think really helps. Just capable shooter running the two player game with Alyssa Thomas. Like you run a screen and roll there and like two players go to Alyssa Thomas and there's Sammy Wickham. Bam. Just ready to take a deep three. So I liked just the stability it gives the wrestler lineups too. Right. Like we always talk about that injury like the knockdown effect is what changes everything. Right. So Phoenix is quietly very deep. I mean this is a huge mea culpa on my part. I did not anticipate all of these rookies having such an impact right away, but they have been awesome. And Sammy Wickham is the lone veteran presence. I think one of three players still born in the 80s who plays in WNBA right now. So kudos to Sammy Wickham. But I thought this setup for her in Phoenix makes a ton of sense.

[Zena Kada]

I'm also dying because I think the Phoenix Parker were the ones that set up one of their social media posts that's like is being born in the 90s old or something like that? And I remember Kathryn West Belt being like no comment. Like I'm not gonna like comment on this probably cause she knows one her age but two her teammates age and Sammy Wakem. But I love Zezena.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do you wanna weigh in? Do you wanna weigh in when someone's old on the old question?

[Zena Kada]

Oh, I think old is a spirit. On the mercury is a spiritual thing. I was like wait, on the Mercury? Yeah, the mercury looked good. But in terms of age I think it's a spiritual thing because trust me, I don't know how many times during the Valkyrie people continue to remind us that Alicia Clark is the oldest.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, she is the oldest. Player in the wnba, so.

[Zena Kada]

Correct. Right. So I was like, how many times are we gonna say this today? Like, we gotta let her go. Let her go on the Sabrina scales. Anything else stood out to you on the scales?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I finally put Connecticut down to 13, which I know people have been clamoring for, so, dang, There you go.

[Zena Kada]

That's tough. That's tough. Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about the team that could be 13 that blew that game against the Aces, and I'm talking about the Dallas Wings. Ben, I'm gonna start with you because, my God, I. I thought that Dallas was finally gonna get their second win. I thought that they looked decent. I mean, oh, I really wish Dallas would get a running big. I really do. But overall, I love the way that Ari Kay played. I love the way Paige was playing. I don't know, I just thought there was. There was significant contributions all around. Dijonay was jab stepping, putting up threes. I was like, all right, here we go. But ultimately, Ben, how did that game end? Explain it to the viewers.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I mean, you should say, Xena, you probably loved how all those Dallas Wings players played until the 355 mark of the fourth quarter, when the game basically flipped. At that point, the Dallas wings were up 82, 71. They were looking very strong. They'd come off one of their best defensive quarters of the season. In the third quarter, they held the Las Vegas Aces just 15 points. Really flipping that game. All told, again, we should say Asia Wilson did not play in that game. As Sabrina mentioned, she was in concussion protocol for that Friday night game as well. And then, I guess the best way to put it in. Chris Coclantis, their coach, said this afterwards, too. In some other words, like, everything that happened to kind of lose a game that you need to have happen, like, happened. The, I think, committed seven fouls between the 3:55 mark and I guess the 28 second mark. When Jewel Lloyd finally put the Las Vegas Aces ahead. A number of those fouls were offensive fouls. They basically just kept committing fouls and then putting the Aces at the line. And so suddenly, you know, Las Vegas is getting two points with the clock stopped. And then next possession down, it'd be, you know, an illegal screen or, you know, like a charge, something like that. Yeah, it was just. They really did play, like, not to lose. Like, they slowed their pace down. It was tough. It was a, I think, gutting. You know, it seemed like a real gutting loss for the Dallas Wings because they were so Close to picking up their biggest win of the season. And look, they haven't played many close games this year. Like, I think that was part of it. But they were disappointed for sure.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah, I, I was so sad for the Paige Becker's performance to essentially have been wasted in that way. But you have to get these wins when Asia Wilson is playing. You've got to get these wins. These are the opportunities that you cannot squander. And so that was really disappointing. But if anything, hopefully it is encouraging that the Dallas Wings can say, okay, we can be in games with these type of teams because Jackie Young and Chelsea Gray, they were playing really well. And so hopefully that's encouraging for them. Let's talk about one more standout that we saw this weekend, Angel Reese. We talked a little bit about her last episode, talking about her needing to play better, which was funny because she got a double double last week. However, this week she f Danny, went ahead and got a triple double and first triple double of her career. And she's just winning all around. I mean, she's trademarking a name that was used to troll her in the me bounds. Basically people saying that she gets her own rebounds. She said that she is going to trademark that. We don't know if that's actually going to happen, but that's what she says.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Cool.

[Zena Kada]

Then she goes and gets a triple double, runs out of the arena with the W pointing up to her fans. Ben, what's the difference you saw in Angel's game this past weekend?

[Unknown Speaker]

I mean, I think they're just trying to get her to be more of a facilitator, more of a playmaker on the perimeter. And initially she kind of talked about it actually a little bit post game game on Sunday that she was a little bit hesitant or not fully understanding. Like why is that kind of the change being made? And there have definitely been a lot of growing pains throughout the first part of this season as she plays more out on the perimeter because she's not really a threat from the three point line like opponents we see, you know, sagging way off of her very much living with her taking three point shots whenever she wants to do it. But we saw, you know, a very good kind of passing both from the high post kind of on dribble handoffs. Like, I think, you know, the basket, her 10th assist to, you know, Ariel Atkins in the fourth quarter was basically a little bit of a dribble handoff that led to a jumper for Atkins. We saw some of that action. Tyler Marsh said post game that like One of the best attributes or the best attribute for his bigs on Chicago is their passing ability. Now I think people can really argue with that. I think they're rebounding might be the best attribute of that right there. It's pretty good considering the season that Reece had last year. But like, it's good to see her just be more versatile and she's saying like she wants to continue to be more versatile. So that was a big reason for their success. Also, encouraging signs from Haley Van Lith career high end points. So, you know, I think it's a work in progress for this guy. Again, they beat the sun, Sabrina's 13th team, but still things look pretty like as good as they have. Looks like they've certainly recovered a little bit from the Vandersloot ACL tear last week.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And they had a good half against Atlanta and the game before that too. I mean, the game got away from them the second half, but I thought defensively they've just looked a lot more coherent over the last couple weeks than they did to start the season. And you know, we'll see how the offense comes along, but you gotta take baby steps, right?

[Zena Kada]

And I mean, that, that makes sense with what we were talking about last week about we're seeing this connectivity and it translates onto the floor and being able to be connected, communicative and hold each other accountable. And so you saw a lot of that out on the floor as well. And yes, thank you, Ben, for shouting out Hayley Van Lith 16.5 rebounds and I think an assist, I think. But yeah, she's playing really well. Shout out to the rookie class. Got to give some love to, you know, pow pow as well. Liking the way that the rookies are continuing the momentum from the sophomore class. Stepping it up, this next class doing the same thing. Before we wrap this, we just want to take a minute to call attention to the horrific news out of Minnesota. I'm sure all of you heard this in some way over the course of the weekend. A gunman allegedly assassinated Minnesota lawmaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark, and after also shooting two other people, including another Minnesota lawmaker. First, our condolences to their families and their communities that are mourning them at their game on Saturday afternoon, the Minnesota Lynx head coach, Cheryl Reeves spoke out about this violence, which Governor Tim Walsh called an act of targeted political violence. You also had Lynx star Nafeesa Collier speaking up too, saying it's a scary time we're living in. Honestly, the things that are going on in this country taking democracy Away from the land of the free. That is supposed to be our slogan. When I think about Minnesota and I think about the WNBA particularly. But WNBA has always been a league that leads by example. They've been always at the forefront of activism, players and coaches using their voices to speak up and out against injustices and wrongdoings. I'll never forget Maya Moore, Rebecca Brunson being the captains of the team that spoke out when Philando Castile was murdered in his car by a police officer. And they started this campaign that other athletes were inspired by. Sheryl Reeves has always been someone that's very outspoken, from Black Lives Matter to the inclusion of trans athlete. Sybrina, I'm sure you remember 2016 as well. And is this something that could launch something new? In the midst of everything, is the WNBA going to have to come out to the forefront again? You know, what are you expecting to come out of this?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I think the Lynx have just historically been an organization that takes its community very seriously and speaks on behalf of what they believe is right. You know, you mentioned the 2016 protests where four of them came out in a press conference wearing shirts protesting police brutality. And, you know, the security officers actually walked out of that game at the Lynx game because of that protest. So it's not something that's done lightly, obviously. It's something that has potentially serious ramifications. Maya Moore obviously ends her basketball career to pursue social justice in the forms of the wrongful conviction of her now husband. And Sheryl Reeve, as you mentioned, her shirts, she's always speaking on behalf of whether it is trans athletes or Black Lives Matter or the political climate in the United States. It's just they had a moment of silence actually for George Floyd earlier this year on the fifth anniversary of his killing by police brutality. So I think this is just something that is firmly within the fabric of the Minnesota Links Organization helmed by Cheryl Reeve. And it is not surprising at all that they would continue to speak on behalf of what they believe and what they believe is right. And I think that's going to be the case so long as Sheryl Reeve is a part of that organization, hopefully long after that, because this is just what they have developed in that community and in that organization. I'm not sure that this is going to spark a WNBA wide thing. I think a lot of other teams and franchises are frankly looks like in a newer space. And I think about everything that happened in LA this week with the ice raids and Lynn Roberts is a new coach here who's just moved and I don't think really has the same familiarity with what's going on in LA as Cheryl Reed does in Minnesota, who's been there for over a decade. The Sparks and Lynn Roberts statements on behalf of what was happening in the Los Angeles community are a lot less strong, I would say, than what was happening in Minnesota. And there's a different amount of investment for how long they've been here and just understanding of what's going on. But I think Minnesota is the team that you look for to take the lead. I'm not sure that every other WNBA team is positioned to follow in that lead necessarily, but I am continuously impressed by what Sheryl Reeve and that team do, and it was heartening to see that yet again on a really, really sad day in Minnesota, for sure.

[Zena Kada]

I very much give kudos to the Minnesota Lynx for just always being the leaders in that category. And it's interesting, as you mentioned Lynn Roberts, I just immediately think about the Utah incident that happened during their NCAA run in which her team experienced, you know, a racial interaction that she said scared her team. I don't remember the exact details, but perhaps something like that and the memory of something like that may inspire her to continue to speak out for her team, for her community. But we shall see. Shout out to the Minnesota Links and again, our thoughts are with the Minnesota community. All right, let's switch gears a bit. We do have an interview with Shana Stephenson, one of the women behind Ellie the Elephant. Stay tuned. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can find Focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology insights and Support [e-mail] this episode is sponsored by.

[Ben Pickman]

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[Zena Kada]

Foreign.

[Unknown Speaker]

Welcome back to no Off Season. We are joined by Shayna Stevenson. She is the Chief Brand Officer of the New York Liberty. Native New Yorker. Shayna's been with the team since 2018. She was honored among Ad Age's Leading Women in 2024 Crane New York's list of notable 2023 Black leaders. But one of her biggest claims to fame has been turning a simple elephant mascot into a cultural phenomenon. That's just one of the things we're going to talk about today. So Shayna, welcome to no Off Season.

[E]

Thanks for having me. Excited to be here and chat all things Ellie and whatever else you want to get into.

[Unknown Speaker]

The mascot obviously has become so synonymous with the franchise's brand. Ellie the Elephant Prior to moving to Barclays center, it was Maddie, a golden retriever in kind of the past iteration of the franchise back when the team played at Madison Square Garden. Just what can you tell people about the origins of Ellie? How did you settle on Ellie, the name? How did you settle on it being an elephant? When did you realize you kind of wanted a change and this to be the figure to represent so much of the team?

[E]

So it was a process. You mentioned Maddie, our beloved golden retriever who was named after Madison Square Garden. So understanding Maddie's origin story, it was really clear early on that Maddie could not come with us to Brooklyn and Barclays center just because of, you know, her origin story. And so we started ideating. Kia and I started ideating around what this new iteration of a mascot could be, should be in Brooklyn. And, you know, we brainstormed a ton of ideas, including another dog, but just renaming the dog Barkley after Barkley Center. Right. But we felt that that was too easy. It was kind of a lazy approach. And we just recognized, like, this is an opportunity for. For us to really do something monumental. We also knew that we had to get it right because of the transition that we were in. We had lost about 70% of our core fan base through that transition. And we were nervous about the move to Brooklyn because even though it's still within the five boroughs, and it was great for us to relocate back into the boroughs, you know, that not all Manhattan Knights or New Yorkers go to Brooklyn. Not all Brooklyn Knights come to Manhattan all the time. And so there was still, like, a lot of education and apprehension around how can we reconnect with our lapsed fans and them already feeling like, you know, an injustice around the way that the Liberty were treated. We knew that as the people leading the brand and driving this next iteration or the next era of the New York Liberty, that it was really important for us to not screw this up. Like, we had to get this right. And Ellie was so beloved by, you know, our Liberty loyals, our day one fans, that we had to show respect to Ellie and how we sunset her. Right? And so with that, we came up with a story once we decided on the mascot. And I'm like, taking a roundabout way to tell the story, but once we landed on a mascot and how we were going to roll Ellie out, we knew that we had to say goodbye to Maddie in a way that our fans understood why this was happening, but also recognize, like, we still love and respect who Maddie was, but it's time for a new day, a new era. So with Ellie after us considering a dog, a pigeon, a rat, debating if it needed to be a person, could it be an inanimate object? Kia, you know, googled late one night, animals in Brooklyn and came across this story about the Brooklyn Bridge and how there were a lot of concerns about was it sturdy, was it durable, was it strong enough to withstand all of the traffic and the weight, you know, that it would experience on a day to day basis.

[Unknown Speaker]

And.

[E]

And there is this. As legend tells it, P.T. barnum and Bailey created a stunt where herds of elephants walked across the bridge to prove that, yes, this is sturdy, it is strong, it can withstand the weight. And I remember we were in. At the time, we were in Westchester, and we worked out of a law office, a law firm office. And she came into the office that day, and she was like, hear me out. I have this idea for a mascot. And I was like, okay. Braced myself. And she said, an elephant? And I was like, no. Like, there's. There's no way. And then she was like, just listen to the story. And then as soon as she told the story, it just made sense. And really, you know, just the synergy and the alignment between an elephant and what an elephant symbolizes. But then elephant and Ellie being short for elephant, but then also thinking about the Statue of Liberty and Ellis island and what that represents, and us being the New York Liberty, and then also the Brooklyn Bridge as a throughway to get from Manhattan to Brooklyn. And that's, you know, reflective of our journey. So all signs just led to that being the future mascot for the New York Liberty. And we were able to get ownership on board. They really bought into the story and the direction that we were headed. And then the fun really started to begin. Once we identified that it would be an elephant, it was like, okay, you know, what is the personality? How do we go about choosing who will be in the costume? What does Ellie even look like? You know? And so we worked with an artist who had experience designing or sketching mascots and Broadway characters, et cetera, and they helped us come up with, you know, a more modern take on an. On a mascot.

[Unknown Speaker]

Sure.

[E]

And we also felt it was really important for us to not just do what had already been done before, because you really don't get as, like, a legacy franchise that's, you know, an original franchise. You don't get these opportunities to hit the reset button, you know, and so we saw that as, like, this is going to be fun. And as someone who's a native New Yorker, I saw in a marketer, like, this was like, the dream job for me to really take on the responsibility of not only rebranding the team in a new borough, but also introducing this new character, this new mascot that would truly represent the team.

[Unknown Speaker]

And we should say that's Kia Clark, the CEO of the franchise. One of the kind of other minds behind so much of the. The business side of the team. When you think about just, you know, Ellie's identity, like, it's obviously so distinct in a broader sports space. Right. It seems, like, identified very clearly as a feminine mascot. The group of people kind of responsibly responsible for styling and marketing, like black women, you know, it's Become this, you know, big cultural icon in the queer community in Brooklyn. And I guess more broadly, like how intentional were some of the choices you made or you all made about character development? I guess, outfits, you know, just kind of aura, swagger, all that kind of stuff.

[E]

Yeah, so some of it was intentional from day one and strategic from day one, and then some of it has evolved over time. So when we were initially, you know, creating Ellie or giving birth to Ellie, the character, and I was working with the artist, we had to have these conversations. You know, should Ellie identify as a female mascot, a male mascot, you know, non binary, you know, and we thought it was important that Ellie be female as a symbol of our team, a representation of our team. We wanted her to align with our players in that way. Also thinking about Brooklyn and what Brooklyn represents, you know, there's so many languages spoken here, you know, in New York. It's the melting pot of the world. So much diversity, and it's truly reflective of our fan base. Right. And we've been extremely intentional with how we've been able to cultivate that fan base. And from the very, very beginning, Even though in 2021, we only had about 2,000, 2,500 fans in the building because we were coming out of the shadows of COVID and dealing with testing and social distancing. And at the time when we introduced Ellie and timeless torches came back and, you know, torch patrol, our dance teams, they couldn't even perform on the court as we know them to perform today, because there were so many league restrictions in place to protect the players. So if you weren't part of that team, tier one group who was getting tested every single day, then you couldn't be on the court. And so we built a stage in one of the end zones of the arena, and that's where Ellie performed. And there's no real way that Ellie can connect with fans. And then when you think about we're in a 17,000, 18,000 person arena and there's only 2,000 people in the building because of, you know, all of these reasons. And so. So it really didn't. Ellie didn't really get to showcase who she could be that season, but it was great because she could get a feel for the dancing and just try different things out without, you know, a huge microscope on her. So that was positive. But initially very clear we wanted her to be female. We were very clear that we wanted her to represent Brooklyn. Very clear that we want. Wanted her to, you know, identify and connect with the queer community and every fan that comes into that building. We want them to see themselves in her. And I love the social media discourse around who's in the costume. Black women claim Ellie. The queer community claims Ellie. Like, everyone identifies with her. And it's fun for us to see all of the, you know, debates on social media, but it also also makes us feel really good because we want our games to feel like everyone belongs there and to feel seen, to feel represented. So that's through the activations and our theme nights. But then Ellie is also another aspect of us being able to deliver that.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's funny that you say going back to it, like, you know, the tier one New York Liberty employees, because I think a few Years later, in 2025, a lot of people would say that Ellie the elephant is. Is very much a tier one New York Liberty. If anyone should be getting daily testing back then to put on a show, it would be the mascot. But is there a moment for you? You know, as we start to close it out, like, is there a moment for you where you step back and you said, wow, like, this got really big. Like, way bigger than I expected. You know, a game. I've seen so many. You know, I've seen so many channels. I've seen so many brand partnerships over the years, so many interactions with fans. It's a whole, you know, it's a giant thing right now, obviously. But is there a moment for you where even you were surprised at how big this idea took off?

[E]

Yes. I mean, there's several. But I would say one of the earliest moments when I recognized that Ellie wasn't just your average mascot was when Cardi B tweeted about Ellie. Ellie did one of TikTok dances that was trending at the time, and Cardi B saw it and tweeted about it and said something like, I can get you the exact headline. But it was like, ellie, I just got ate up by an elephant or something to that effect. And then Billboard covered the story or covered Cardi talking about Ellie, and I was like, whoa. So that blew my mind. And then, you know, then there were just, like, certain entertainment blogs that started to pick up Ellie's halftime performances or little, like, TikTok dances that she was doing. And I would just be scrolling in my feed and start to see Ellie content that we didn't plant or post. And so that was one of the first moments for me. And then when we introduced the Ellie braid, that became a trend, and that took off in its own way. And then, you know, every season, there's something new and different about Ellie, and then obviously, the fashion and her, you know, being invited to walk the red carpet at Glamorous Women of the Year awards, Vogue covering Ellie. Ellie's done so many features across all of the major women's fashion publications, you know, and it's like, again, Ellie being in spaces, being invited into spaces in places that you would not expect a mascot to be seen in. There was a time when these publications weren't even covering women athletes. Right. So for them to now be covering the mascot of a women's professional sports team, it really shows the impact that Ellie has had, obviously, the growth of women's sports, but. But also the impact that Ellie has had. And then also, you know, you mentioned, like, brands and partnerships and this season, her partnership with Essie and us introducing, you know, gel nails on Ellie, you know, so it's like, it's been fun to just experiment and try new things and be innovative. But also, I love that we have partners that also embrace thinking outside of the box and who want to work with us and want to dream up these crazy ideas of ways that we can continue to pull. Push the limit of what, you know, a traditional mascot is known for.

[Unknown Speaker]

When you talk about pushing the limit, like, how much did Ellie influence how you guys kind of bring in a fan base or just can you kind of reflect on the. The approach to bringing in that fan base? You touched on it a little bit, but obviously New York Liberty games, you know, they, you know, are super inclusive environment. Right. You very much like, you know, welcoming in people in the queer community who might traditionally be boxed out of some. Some sports spaces or male sports spaces. Did those ideas kind of work along a parallel path or, you know, frankly, like, the Liberty fan base is different than the Nets fan base. Right. And the. The energy in the arenas are very different.

[E]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

How did you kind of think about that connection of the in arena environment and connection with the community in Brooklyn?

[E]

Well, we knew that we wanted it to be a party and we wanted people to have fun. You know, it's.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's.

[E]

I say this, but regardless of the score, up by 20, down by 20, I want people to leave feeling like, wow, that was a really great experience. But for me, it starts with the players. Like, the strategy is all built around the players and their identities and making sure that they feel seen and represented and having a building and a fan base that reflects who they are on the court as well, and who can celebrate and champion who they are and uplift them in that way. And, you know, I think that we've been able to successfully do that also because of our leadership team and what we look like and Kia Clark being really intentional about, you know, hiring people that our players are able to identify with but also identify with these diverse communities that we serve. And, you know, we're out in the community, our mascot and their team are out in the community. So it all is really authentic to who we are. We're not delivering an experience or executing on activations that we don't truly believe in or taking on partnerships that feel inauthentic to who we are. We really want to make sure that we represent our community and our fans and our players in the most positive way. And, and there's there. It's a lot of it's very meaningful to us and we, and we see that as a responsibility. And so our strategy is about that, but then also about tapping into, as I mentioned before, like the cultural touch points of who New York is at the heart and soul of the city.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yep. So, Shaina Stevenson, we appreciate you taking some time talking about the mascot and the brand and joining us on no off season.

[E]

Thanks for having me.

[Zena Kada]

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[Sabrina Merchant]

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[Zena Kada]

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[Zena Kada]

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[E]

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[E]

But for now, just relax.

[Zena Kada]

All right folks, shout out to Big Ellie. I, I, I love that they have created this mascot in New York. And I particularly love the competition from all the other teams to try and catch up. All these new mascots popping up, all the older mascots trying to show out. I don't know. Big Ellie kind of takes the cake, but we'll see. I'm excited to keep the competition going. On that note, we got another rendition of one of our favorite games. Two takes and a fake. And this time it's coming from me. So Sabrina, Ben, you guys work together to figure out which one of my takes are real. Two of them and one that's fake. All right, let's get going. My first take is Breonna Jones is going to be in the top 10 shooting bigs in the WNBA by the end of the season. My second take is that Natalie Nakase will win coach of the year in the wnba. And my third take is the Las Vegas Aces will make a move at trade deadline. Which one of my takes is real or fake?

[Sabrina Merchant]

When you say best shooting bigs in the wnba, is that like a qualitative thing? Like is there a number you're pointing out to? Like what are we, what are you referring to here?

[Zena Kada]

I'm thinking, I'm thinking like if you rank all the centers in the league, she'll be in the top 10. I don't know what that number will be, but she'll be in the top 10.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay. I'm not even shred caller's under this year, but that's fine.

[Zena Kada]

Fair. That's fair. Or forward. A center forward.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think we can safely say that Natalie Nikasi being coach of the year is a Xena take. That it's real.

[Unknown Speaker]

Certainly the logic is aligns with Xena's past history about the Golden State Valkyries. I personally don't believe that as it's going to come to fruition. But I think Xena can certainly you can make a case she believes it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay, so we're then we think we're lying there between Bree Jones and Vegas. Right? Okay. So she thinks the Aces will make a move at the trade deadline. Now that kind of relies on the Aces having a general manager to make moves at the trade deadline. Which that seems like more of a hang up for me than Xena though, I gotta tell you. What do you think, Ben?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, I think we know that the Aces are. I mean, we've seen it sniffing around at trying to improve their roster. We've already seen, you know, them make a change in terms of Crystal Bradford getting released and bringing in Joiner Homes. Wouldn't be shocking if, you know, we saw future transactions like that down the line as they try and sort out their bench. So it's pretty plausible for that. For that to happen.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think that they're going to be 10 shooting bigs who are better than Bri Jones, frankly. What are her numbers look like right now?

[Unknown Speaker]

Bri Jones. We should. We should say as you look this up, should be an All Star. People who are voting, she should be an All Star for the Atlanta Dream this year. That's another takeoff.

[Sabrina Merchant]

17% of her threes on 1.7 attempts per game. It doesn't seem to me like top 10.

[Unknown Speaker]

That does not seem to be top 10 to me. I think we. I think we settled on this one.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think we settled. All right. That's. That's our fake Xena.

[Zena Kada]

Okay. Correct.

[E]

However.

[Zena Kada]

However, I think it is worth saying that she's 3 of 18, I think right now of the season.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Zena Kada]

And that is in just this portion of the season. That's more threes than she took all year. Last year she took 14 threes. She's already taken 18 through nine or 10 games. So shout out to Brianna Jones and Carlos Mesko for his system. Clearly that she is playing within and shooting more threes. But yeah, I do think that Natalie Kase may win or will win coach of the Year. And I do think that the Las Vegas Aces will make a move. They need to. Because I am tired of seeing how frustrated Asia Wilson looks every time she gets out on the court. But that is just my opinion. Great job, guys. And I didn't know that you guys were gonna look up Brianna Jones. Brianna Jones's three point percentage. I thought we were gonna get it right here.

[Unknown Speaker]

You had to expect it. You had to expect it on this show. We're well researched here.

[Zena Kada]

It's a little bit cheating, but you know, it's fair. It's fair. It's fair. But yeah, I think your logic with the Las Vegas. You're absolutely right. Having a GM is more of your concern, Sabrina, than it is mine. They're gonna have to figure it out if Becky Hammond has to. Get on the phone. Get on the phone, sis. Okay. We gotta figure it out for the Aces because we can't have Asia Wilson. Do y' all see how stressed she looked at that game in the suite.

[Sabrina Merchant]

In the suite. When she was sitting.

[Zena Kada]

Oh yeah, she was sitting in the box, sunglasses on, trying to, you know, heal from this concussion. She's going through it, folks. Again, this is just my opinion. This is not me actually talking to her and knowing. But great job, guys. Great job. Ben and Sabrina, hope you guys got it at home as well. That is all for today. Join us on Friday where we're gonna have some early thoughts for you on our all Star picks. I hope you're getting your voting in. And before we go, quick reminder, subscribe to this show wherever you're listening. Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, wherever in your bathroom, do it right now. Leave us a comment, write us an email, reach out on social media. We love to hear from you guys. And of course, head over to our partner at the Yahoo. Sports hub for more content. It's sports.yahoo.com womens-sports on behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Kada. Appreciate you guys listening and we'll see you next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology insights and Support [e-mail] Heads up trading card collectors.

[Ben Pickman]

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[Sabrina Merchant]

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