Can Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever take the crown?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Can Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever Take the Crown?"

No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Release Date: May 13, 2025
Episode Title: Can Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever Take the Crown?
Hosts: Zena Keita, Sabrina Merchant, Chantel Jennings, Ben Pickman

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Introduction

In this episode of No Offseason, the hosts delve deep into the prospects of the Indiana Fever, focusing on standout player Caitlin Clark and the team's potential to vie for the WNBA championship. The discussion encompasses team dynamics, coaching strategies, roster changes, and predictions for the upcoming season.

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Sabrina Scale Rankings

Sabrina Scale is introduced as a formalized version of Sabrina Merchant's long-standing Power Rankings. This ranking system evaluates teams based on their current rosters, coaching, and projected performance for the season.

• Ben Pickman explains the inaugural Sabrina Scale, emphasizing its fresh perspective for the preseason:

  “[04:58] Ben Pickman: … It's just as of May 12, you know, this is who I like, and we'll adjust as need be.”

• The New York Liberty secures the top spot due to their formidable trio of Johns, Brianna Stewart, and Sabrina Esku, coupled with strong supporting talent like Natasha Cloud and Niara Sabali:

  “[06:44] Ben Pickman: … that trio… is as good as any trio in the WNBA.”

• Minnesota follows closely, maintaining their momentum from the previous season with returning talent and team chemistry.

• Indiana Fever rises two spots from last season, reflecting offseason improvements but still trailing top contenders due to relative inexperience compared to the likes of New York and Minnesota.

• Chicago earns the sixth position, bolstered by Courtney Vanderholen and new additions like Haley Van Lith, enhancing their perimeter offense.

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Indiana Fever Team Analysis

The core focus shifts to the Indiana Fever, examining their current roster, key players, and how recent acquisitions might influence their championship aspirations.

• Caitlin Clark is highlighted as the catalyst for Indiana's resurgence. Her enhanced shooting range and leadership are pivotal:

  “[13:05] Ben Pickman: … Caitlin Clark is back. Caitlin Clark is shooting further than she was. I didn't think that was possible, but she's even. She's doing that.”

• Key Roster Additions:

  • Dejuaana Bonner and Natasha Howard bring championship experience and scoring prowess.
  • Sophie Cunningham and Sydney Coulson, both WNBA champions, add depth and veteran insight.
  • Returning stars like Aaliyah Boston and Kelsey Mitchell maintain the team's strong foundation.

• The integration of these players poses challenges in defining starting lineups and balancing offensive and defensive roles:

  “[18:27] Ben Pickman: … it's still the number one picks who came into Indiana and change everything around… figuring out what works around them.”

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Coaching Dynamics with Stephanie White

Stephanie White's return as head coach is a significant storyline, bringing a blend of institutional knowledge and fresh strategies to the Fever.

• Background: White, a former player and previous coach for the Fever, understands the franchise's history and culture intimately:

  “[26:25] Zena Keda: … she was the very first player in the history of the Indiana Fever.”

• Coaching Philosophy: Emphasis on defensive schemes, player development, and fostering team unity:

  “[30:54] Ben Pickman: … Stephanie White emphasizes Caitlin getting stronger, just having her in better shape to take on those defensive assignments.”

• Strategic Influences: Inspired by NBA coaches like Mark Daigneault and Kenny Atkinson, White focuses on depth and managing a talented roster effectively:

  “[21:51] Chantelle Jennings: … she cited because in her mind, they look a lot more like the Indiana Fever with some stars at the top, but also 10, 11 players who could be getting more minutes.”

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Player Development: Caitlin Clark's Offseason

Caitlin Clark's offseason training has been central to Indiana's preparation, balancing skill enhancement with injury prevention.

• Injury Management: Clark dealt with a quad injury during training camp, cautiously returning to play without exacerbating the condition:

  “[14:39] Chantelle Jennings: … Caitlin Clark has been dealing with a little bit of a quad injury throughout training camp.”

• Training Regimen: Focused on strength, balance, and ball-handling to enhance both offensive and defensive capabilities:

  “[16:39] Chantelle Jennings: … she was always kind of in the gym. She said to me that she was kind of in the weight room four times a week doing Olympic lifting.”

• Coaching Interaction: White and her staff implemented targeted drills to address Clark's performance nuances, ensuring she remains a dominant force on the court:

  “[16:39] Chantelle Jennings: … they spent 35 minutes just on ball handling trying to, you know, Stephanie White put it to me that she would sometimes be too far forward or too far back on her heel.”

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Roster Changes and Team Synergy

The addition of veteran players introduces both opportunities and challenges in team dynamics.

• Role Adjustments: With stars like Natasha Howard and Dejuaana Bonner joining, the team must redefine starting roles and minutes distribution:

  “[20:29] Ben Pickman: … how they fit best together because we know the big three returning are very good together, but can we figure out what works around them?”

• Depth Utilization: White has multiple lineup options, allowing flexibility in game strategies but requiring time to establish optimal rotations:

  “[21:01] Chantelle Jennings: … they know they're going to have to do a lot of learning that is going to have to happen here.”

• Team Chemistry: Extended practice periods compared to last season's tight schedule offer better opportunities for players to gel and refine their collaborative play:

  “[23:24] Ben Pickman: … their first 11 games this season are over the course of 31 days. So you're going to have a lot more half days in there to actually get into the gym and learn each other.”

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Predictions and Conclusion

The hosts weigh in on the Indiana Fever's chances of clinching the WNBA title, considering their current trajectory and team composition.

• Championship Aspirations: While the Fever show marked improvement, skepticism remains about their immediate ability to dethrone established top teams like the New York Liberty:

  “[38:32] Chantelle Jennings: … one thing feels a little bit early. … they have a lot of learning that happens.”

• Long-Term Outlook: Optimism is tempered with the understanding that team cohesion and experience are crucial for championship success, projecting potential breakthroughs in the coming years:

  “[37:18] Ben Pickman: … I personally would not be surprised if they made the finals and lost this season. … I think it's probably going to be another first team all W type season for Caitlin Clark.”

• Overall Assessment: The Indiana Fever are poised as serious contenders with a blend of emerging talent and seasoned veterans. However, achieving championship glory may require further development and team synergy in the near future.

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Notable Quotes

• Ben Pickman on Sabrina Scale & New York Liberty:

  “[06:44] Ben Pickman: … they have already done it together. And I think, you know, it's a worthy consideration for number one.”

• Chantelle Jennings on Team Goals:

  “[35:31] Chantelle Jennings: … this is what they are trying to prove with the Indiana Fever.”

• Zena Keita on Coaching and Defense:

  “[30:54] Ben Pickman: … Stephanie White was a very smart defensively schematic coach.”

• Chantelle Jennings on Championship Timeline:

  “[36:56] Chantelle Jennings: … but feels a little bit early. … it's more of a still, I think a tough semifinalist out than even getting to the finals.”

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Closing Thoughts

The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the Indiana Fever's prospects, highlighting the pivotal role of Caitlin Clark, the strategic impact of Coach Stephanie White, and the complexities introduced by roster changes. While the Fever demonstrate significant upward momentum, achieving championship success appears to be a journey that will unfold over the next few seasons as team cohesion and experience deepen.

Listeners are encouraged to engage with the show through mailbag episodes and by tuning into future episodes for ongoing coverage and insights into the dynamic world of women's basketball.

Transcript

[Zena Keda]

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[Zena Keda]

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[Ben Pickman]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Chantelle Jennings]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Keda]

And today on the show. Is it, Is it, Is it warm in here? I don't. Let me check my temperature. Is it? Yeah. I think we're talking fever, people. We are going on our deep dive into the Indiana fever and we're going to cover it all. How are things looking for Caitlin Clark, especially with the new faces around her? How far can she take this team? Plus, how are they going to come together? You know, things don't immediately gel for new teams coming together, so we'll have to see what does the road ahead look like with Stephanie White at the helm of this new. But first, friends and listeners, we are doing a mailbag episode very soon. That means we got. We gotta hear from you guys. We got to hear what your questions are about the upcoming WNBA season. Anything you need a take on? What do you want to hear Sabrina's deep thoughts on? What do you think Ben keeps? What keeps him up at night? Yeah. We want to make sure that you guys get an opportunity to ask those questions. Send it to us. Email us at no offseason theathletic.com or find us on X on Blue Sky. Just comment wherever you can. Let us know. And we want to feature your questions in the show. There's more details in the show notes, so check that out. Okay, now, before we get to the fever, the W season is set to start on Friday and we are going to have our inaugural rendition of the Sabrina Scale. Now, I'm sure you've probably heard this similarly before because you've read it on the site. It's her power rankings, but we're. We're making it formal, at least in this name. Sabrina Scale. I came up with it and if you guys hate it, I will have no problems with it. Just let us know. We want to actually hear your thoughts. Maybe we can come up with something better, but in my opinion, it's which team is tipping the scale in their favor, which one's sliding off. Are there any teams breaking the scale? We are going to get Sabrina's in depth, detailed, no holds barred background thoughts on who is climbing up on her scale. So first and foremost, Sabrina, it's not essentially the inaugural season of your power rankings. You've been doing this a long time, but I think there's some nicer Google.

[Ben Pickman]

Docs would agree with that.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, exactly. I feel like there's some listeners that absolutely are new to it and they want to know, like, you do these power rankings every Sunday during the WNBA season and that's a lot. How do you do it.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. So they run every Monday. That means I do write most of them on Sundays. The inaugural ones, like the preseason rankings, are honestly the most fun because, let's face it, over the course of the year, you kind of get anchored by, okay, this team was in eighth last week. It's hard to move them, like four spots up or down based on two games that have happened since then. So these are really the most interesting because it's blank slate. There's no anchoring, except for the one exception of I always put the defending champion in the first spot. Regardless of what has happened during the offseason. The defending champions get that. You know, doesn't matter if I think that they're not going to be the very best team in the league this season, which, spoiler alert, I kind of think I would have put Minnesota if I didn't have that personal rule for myself. But it's really just. I look at the rosters in this particular moment, who do I like the most? Who do I think makes the most sense as a team? Who do I think is going to play the best right now? It's not really who I think is going to end the year in this particular position. It's too far, too far away to make those kind of decisions. So it's just as of May 12, you know, this is who I like, and we'll adjust as need be.

[Zena Keda]

There you go. So, of course, if any WNBA players and teams are listening, if you're not looking for that trophy for the end of the season, if that's not enough motivation for you getting the number one spot in next year, Sabrina Scales will be the motivation, clearly, of what you need. So, of course, that explains a little bit of why New York was number one, but why else has New York kind of gotten that number one spot and deserved it, at least in this first inaugural? Sabrina Scales.

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, that trio of Johns, Brianna Stewart and Sabrina Esku is as good as any trio in the wnba. And it's not as if they have no talent backing it up. Right. Leo Fevich is going to be stateside for the opener, one of the very best three and players in the wnba. The addition of Natasha Cloud really rounds out that starting lineup. Got Niara Sabali, who was just tremendous during the WNBA finals against the Minnesota Lynx. And you know that it's a lot of talent, right? Yeah, especially when that group has already done it together. So I think, you know, it's. It's a worthy consideration for number one. I'm a little, little worried about the forward depth. But that is a problem for later down the road.

[Zena Keda]

Absolutely. With all the movement that happened in this off season, it looks as if New York and Minnesota probably are the only teams that are coming in pretty solid with the teams they had last year. And that means not only do you have the same returning talent, you have that chemistry, and we know that that can be huge. Now, thinking about a team that doesn't quite look exactly the same as last year, definitely some returners, but a lot of big new faces both at the helm, in the coaching route and then also in the seat. The team we're talking about today, Indiana, they did not make your top three in the Sabrina Scales. Break that down to me, please.

[Ben Pickman]

Okay, so Indiana made the playoffs last year. They were a six seed. I think the offseason additions obviously improved them from that respect, they did move up two spots relative to where they ended last season. I think New York and Minnesota just have too much of an edge in terms of their continuity, as you mentioned, both from a coaching perspective and a talent perspective. And we've, you know, seen much more consistency, I would say, out of their best players than. To be fair, Caitlin Clark has only had one season in the wnba, so it's hard to say she hasn't been consistent. But, you know, it's hard to say that there's as long of a track record of success in Indiana as there has been in these teams. Really, the tough point was Vegas versus Indiana because Vegas did not make the finals, obviously. And I did not love their off season. But the one thing I did love is that Chelsea Gray looks healthy. And I think if you have Chelsea Gray and Asia Wilson together, that is a combo that has historically been very, very difficult to beat. And I am riding with that group until someone tells me otherwise.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. All right. Well, Indiana did start the preseason on a really good note. So if they're. If they're riding the highs of their preseason matchups, they could be looking. Oh, go ahead then.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Well, I was going to say they're riding high, but my question to Sabrina was, I know these are numerical rankings 1 through 13, but if you were going to tier these like, because on the betting markets right now, there's not a big gap between one and four for championship contenders. The teams you listed, New York, Minnesota, Las Vegas and Indiana, how far is the gap for you between Indiana and Seattle? 4, 5. Is it a huge gap?

[Ben Pickman]

Like market suggest, One of the hardest things was actually coming up with team number five, because there does seem to be a pretty big delta between Indiana and whoever comes next. Like, I, I don't think if Seattle played Indiana in playoff series, it would be all that competitive. I don't think any, like, potential five seed playing Indiana in playoff series would be all that competitive. To me, there's, there's a top four who I think can all compete for a title. There's this middle group of five that I think are trying to get that last set of playoff seeds. I'm sorry, middle group of six that's trying to get those last four playoff seeds and then a bottom three that's, you know, look into 20, 26.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. And speaking of that tier, I appreciate that question, Ben, because I do feel as if this year there's more mobility between the tiers because of how many different stars shifted to different teams across the country. And so I'm looking at Chicago and I'm looking at how they bolster their offense, particularly with Courtney Vanisloot. They added in Haley Van Lith, you know, there's, there's a lot more movement in the perimeter than they had and veteranship in the perimeter. So you got Chicago at number six. Why was that?

[Ben Pickman]

It's really sloot, you know, just the way that she has with Camila Cardoso during the preseason. Admittedly, it was just one game. She missed the second preseason game. But, you know, you watch that first preseason game, pick and roll, pick and roll, pick and roll. Camila Cardoso way up, you know, layup, layup. And it's just like, okay, this is gonna, this is gonna work pretty well. Right?

[Zena Keda]

Right.

[Ben Pickman]

I think about just how dynamic Cardoso is on the role, and she didn't have a good pocket passer with her last season in Chicago. Like, it was kind of just Kennedy Carter, and Kennedy Carter is not really a passer, but, you know, more of a scorer collapsing the defense and then getting the ball off to Cardoso. So somebody as capable of playmaking as Courtney Vanderson, I think is just gonna make a monumental difference. And you just look at all the veterans they've added up and down the roster, like Rebecca Allen, Keya nurse, Elizabeth Williams, not necessarily an addition, but she missed basically all last season with an injury. There' solid, competent play that's going to happen at these positions. That wasn't the case last year. Like, they were really sort of scrambling for options, especially when the injuries hit by the end of the season, maybe, like, I don't think that they could necessarily win a first round playoff series, but if you told me they finished fifth in the WNBA in the Regular season, I would not be surprised.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. Okay. Well, can't dive too much deeper into that because of course this show is about Indiana. But definitely go check out the Sabrina scales every week coming out on Monday, she is going to be figuring out who is putting a little bit of weight on the scales in their favor or who needs to go get some weight, show up on the court a little bit more every single week. I love this breakdown. Gives me a lot of insight. And she also does some xo nos breakdown in those, so definitely go check those out. Okay. Without further ado, I put down my thermometer. It's officially hot. Yep, it's hot. Okay, it's time for Indiana Fever. We got to break this down. We've touched on them a little bit in our preseason shows. Check out the Eastern Conference preview that we did back on April 29th. So not too much preamble here. Caitlin Clark is back. Caitlin Clark is shooting further than she was. I didn't think that was possible, but she's even. She's doing that. And she's also got her teammates. Aaliyah Boston's with her. Kelsey Mitchell's with her. And there's some new faces, some new competitors. Dejuana Bonner, Natasha Howard, both WNBA champions. Sophie Cunningham, Sydney Coulson, another WNBA champion. And also veterans, more veterans across this roster. A lot of people are saying that when it comes to the Liberty protecting their crown, this might be the team looking to snatch it. So before we entertain that question, let's step back a little bit and talk about how the Fever got to this point. So, Sabrina, I need a little bit of history of the franchise up until now.

[Ben Pickman]

So the Indiana Fever debuted in WNBA in 2000. They have won one title in WNBA history. That came in 2012 with Tamika Catchings as their best player. Tamika Catchings, one of the very best players in the league's history, sort of just kept coming up against the wall repeatedly in the Eastern Conference playoffs. Finally broke through in 2012. When she retires, the franchise sort of goes into a bit of a bit of a lull that might be putting it generously. They have not had a winning season in quite some time. They get to draft Aaliyah Boston, number one in the lottery in 2023, get Caitlin Clark in 2024. Immediate success follows after drafting Caitlin Clark. And that has sort of sped up the timeline for a team that went 5, 31 three years ago that is now trying to compete for a championship in 2025.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, and I think that that's the part that let's we gotta start with. Ben. Caitlin Clark has been the accelerant. She has been the gasoline on the fire, just adding to the offensive ability, the generation of this floor, the tempo and pace with which Indiana plays and the creativity really that you see out on the floor kind of unlocking different pick and roll options, cross court passes. Just the vision of overall. And we should talk a little bit more about Caitlin's off season because a lot of some of these players, we saw it unrivaled. We got to see a little bit of what they were doing in other circumstances and how they were getting better. But everyone was wondering, how is Caitlin Clark looking? We saw her a lot of NBA games on the sidelines, support and we saw her playing golf this summer. But how is her basketball game looking? Ben, you were in Indiana at training camp earlier this month. Tell me a little bit about the development and and what you're seeing from Caitlin Clark.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Yeah, there are kind of two big things. Let's hit the news point first. Cena. The first thing is that Caitlin Clark has been dealing with a little bit of a quad injury throughout training camp. She missed their first preseason game against the Washington Mystics. She was kind of held out of that game for rest. I think precautionary reasons more than anything else. They played the next day against the Brazilian national team. In her homecoming. She was not on the injury report for Indiana's preseason game against the Dream. So that is a good sign. But it's still something worth monitoring knowing that, you know, she did have a little bit of, you know, an injury that held her out of at least one game. But to kind of the broader question of how does her off season look? Caitlin really prioritized her body and trying to get stronger during the winter and she was very diligent throughout, I guess the entire offseason having not played an unrivaled to get in the gym. As you mentioned, I was down in Indiana for part of their training camp and I saw them against the dream. I had someone with the team tell me that basically like there is an internal calendar that the Fever have that details the access to their practice court each day. And Caitlin would frequently book that 8am time slot even when she had like events the night before or events later that day. Like she was always kind of in the gym. She said to me that she was kind of in the weight room four times a week doing Olympic lifting, segmenting lower and upper body work, taking part in plyometric exercises which are really helpful in Improving balance, knowing that opponents are going to be really physical with her throughout the season. So that was one of the things that she really worked on. And when we think about, again, like her starting point, not only was she building off the experience that she learned last year firsthand, but she's a new coach. Stephanie White, who was the head coach of the Connecticut sun last year, and their player development coach is named Keith Porter, and he was a development coach with the sun too. And so really, this team used the scout that Connecticut drew up for Caitlin in the postseason. When these two teams played and Connecticut beat the fever, they used the scout as a jumping off point. So one of their very first drills that they worked on was a balance drill.

[Zena Keda]

Wow.

[Chantelle Jennings]

A balance and ball handling drill. And Caitlin said that in their first workout, one of the first workouts they had, they spent 35 minutes just on ball handling trying to, you know, Stephanie White put it to me that she would sometimes be too far forward or too far back on her heel. So everything was off those perceived deficiencies. And so again, that's where this priority for work and the roadmap really how came about.

[Zena Keda]

Dang. I feel bad that if I have a late night, I am not going to the gym at 8am Shout out.

[Ben Pickman]

To Caitlyn your IG stories, which is just otherwise, you know.

[Zena Keda]

Well, that's fair. That's true. Unless it's work, unless it's a game and then, yeah, whatever. But I will say the media pictures of Caitlin Clark absolutely had me putting my arm workouts up a notch because she is jacked, she is cut, she looks lean, she looks ready. And it is so genius for, you know, Stephanie White to bring in exactly what they scouted her for to be the thing that she needs to work on. Because, you know, teams around the league absolutely were trying to get her off balance, trying to get her to have to battle through contact to finish at the rim. Now, Sabrina, of course Caitlin can do this off season work and, and make sure that she's prepared. But it's not just Caitlin out there on the court. It is a five on five league. Right. It's gotta be everyone chipping. So now thinking about this roster and the new faces that have been brought in that I mentioned a little bit earlier, and Dana Bonner, Natasha Howard, Sydney Coulson, I mean, these are some really big names and you're talking about players that have shown out on other teams. They've been the number one options on other teams. How does this fit with a team that was centered or is or has been centered around Caitlin Clark from a guard position, Aaliyah Boston from a center position or a big position, and then Kelsey Mitchell on the wing. How do you break this out?

[Ben Pickman]

So the feeder have five returning players from last season and only four of them even managed to play together during the preseason because Tamara Dantes wasn't able to play during these three games. So that gives you Caitlin Clark, Kelsey Mitchell, Lexi hall and Aaliyah Boston. And because of all the new additions, Lexi hall, who absolutely lit the nets on fire during the second half of the 2024 season, isn't even starting anymore because you have Sophie Cunningham and Dewana Bonner in at those wing slots. You know, naturally upgrades over Lexi Hull. With all due respect to how good she was during that 2024 campaign. And you think about how Indiana ran their offense. It was a lot of Caitlin Clark, Aaliyah, Boston High pick and roll. Boston working off of the short roll, spraying out for those shooters, Kelsey Mitchell running some off ball actions and everybody else just sort of fit in around that. It's a lot harder to fit in around that when you're Natasha Howard and you've been an all W player and you've been most improved player and you're coming in saying things like you expect to be on MVP ballots this season and you're Dewana Bonner, one of the top five scorers in WNBA history. I think she could move up as high as number three like during the first week of this season. And that's going to take some sacrifice. It's going to take some acknowledgement of where everybody goes because the fulcrum of this is still Clark and Boston. Like they are still the number one picks who came into Indiana and change everything around and they were the reason everything works around them. So I'm just fascinated to see like who even starts around them. Like you saw one preseason game they had Dewana Bonner in the starting lineup next to Howard, Clark, Mitchell and Boston. And the other game they had Sophie Cunningham in that spot. Do we reach a point where Bonner and Cunningham are both of the forwards and you bench Natasha Howard and she functions more as a backup five for Aaliyah Boston. Like there's so many different combinations that could work with all of the talent that they have. It just, it's going to require a lot of changing of roles. You know, Dewana Bonner was playing upwards of 30 minutes every night in Connecticut and that's just not going to be needed or probably possible with all of the forward depth they have in Indiana and maybe there are games where they don't even close with Aaliyah Boston because Natasha Howard is a better defensive option at center than Aliyah is. So I think Stephanie White has just has so many levers to pull and that is obviously a better problem to have than not having enough options. But it is going to require some time to figure out how everyone fits best together because we know the big three returning are very good together, but can we figure out what works around them?

[Zena Keda]

Ben, I was going to ask you, did you get a sense from Stephanie White while you were at training camp, looking at the fact that Stephanie has so many different types of levers to pull and it could also result in different looking teams. Right. You could have a running team, you could have a half court, court kind of big team that operates really well in the half court. You could have a team that's really pick and roll focused. You can have a team that's really motion focused. Did you get a sense at all of what types of levers she wants to pull, what kind of, what's going to be the theme for this team and how she's going to pick out those starting lineups?

[Chantelle Jennings]

I think the biggest piece of clarity is that they don't, they don't expect to have clarity until at least the All Star break on what exactly the rotation looks like and where they want to be. Like, I think they know everything that Sabrina just mapped out, that there's a lot of different ways that they can go. And so I think they're going to really use the first 20 some odd games of the season to try a little, to try some things out. And everything really is, you know, an effort to play your best basketball in September and in October. If you're an Indiana Fever fan, like, they know they're going to have to, there's a lot of learning that is going to have to happen here. And one of the most interesting things, and I think, you know, Xena, you obviously do a lot in the NBA too. And Sabrina, like me, we are avid followers of it too. One of the most interesting things I learned was that you know, Stephanie White during the off season, she also works for ESPN as a broadcaster.

[Zena Keda]

Right.

[Chantelle Jennings]

And so we sat down and we chatted a little bit at training camp. And I asked her, like, when you're in production meetings with head coaches before the games, like, are you picking the brains of Doc Rivers and Steve Kerr? You know, coaches who have these transcendent stars, are you learning from them about, you know, how to coach a star Like Caitlin. And she actually said that two of the coaches who have been most instructive for her in the lead up to this season were Mark Dagnal, who's the head coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder, and Kenny Atkinson, the head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Both of those teams are really, really deep rosters. Depth is their strong suit. And both, we should say, were number one seeds in their respective conferences. Though, as we taped this on Monday afternoon, not exactly the best time to be having a Kenny Atkinson, Cleveland Cavaliers conversation and Coach of the Year Kenny Atkinson tonight. Yeah, exactly. So we should say, like, those were two coaches she cited because in her mind, they look a lot more like the Indiana Fever with some stars at the top, but also 10, 11 players who could be getting more minutes. And so she was curious, like, how do you communicate with players who say they might deserve or they think they should have more playing time or should play a certain role, but we as a coaching staff think they don't. And what are the best practices you have when trying to keep people engaged? Like, you know, to me, that reflects an awareness that this is a deep roster, this is a talented roster, this is an experienced roster, and not everyone is going to play. And that's just the reality of the situation. And I think it tells you something that, like, that is how they are thinking right now, both in the short term, but also, again, to try and keep people engaged for a postseason run down the line.

[Ben Pickman]

And the good news for the Fever is there's so much time for them to learn. You think about last season where they had to play their first 11 games in 20 days, and there was just no time for practice to actually get to know one another beyond the games. I think their first 11 games this season are over the course of 31 days. So you're going to have a lot more half days in there to actually get into the gym and learn each other in a practice setting versus just games.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, that was like, the number one thing that was said about the Indiana Fever last year is like, they literally have not practiced. They're not practicing. They're just their games have been their practice, which is crazy. And, Ben, shout out to you for that question because it's a very thoughtful one, because both of those coaches, Kenny and Mark, have Donovan Mitchell and Shay Gills Alexander, respectively. But as you mentioned, a lot of talent up and down the roster as well. And so this is gonna be very interesting. Let's continue talking about Stephanie right after this break because she's coming back to her program to see if she can kind of restore some of the glory that was there when she was last there. Don't go anywhere. 21 year old flaw J Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flaw J's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like Flauje can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more.

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[Zena Keda]

Okay, so now let's take a closer look at how things have changed at the coaching level for the Fever. And when it comes to this team, you've seen a lot of recycling. What's old is new again, including head coach Stephanie White. Not only did she coach this team in 2015 and 16, she was also the very first player in the history of the Indiana fever. Back in 2000, she was playing for the Charlotte Sting, and then she was drafted to the Fever in the very first WNBA expansion draft. So there's a long history here for this team and Stephanie White and particularly she's An Indiana girl through and through. She grew up there and was even Miss Indiana, Miss Basketball back in 1995. So a little bit of royalty coming back as well. So we've talked a little bit about, you know, how she's gonna have to try and balance this team offensively. We could talk a little bit about the other side of the ball. But first let's take a step back and look at. We've seen Stephanie White coaching for a very long time. We saw what she did in Connecticut. There's an opportunity for her to change things completely in Indiana. So let's ask the bigger question, Ben. What does Stephanie White bring to this team?

[Chantelle Jennings]

I mean, the first thing that she brings that I think is really important in this context is institutional knowledge, right. That she, as you mentioned, Xena, has been with this franchise. You know, it's been a part of her in some form or fashion for, you know, the last 25 years. And it goes beyond just Stephanie White, the team president, her name is Kelly Kroscop. She was actually the first employee that was hired by what was then just Indiana's WNBA expansion team in 1999. She was the person who picked Stephanie White. And Kelly Krauskopf has kind of been with Pacer Sports and Entertainment for the last two plus decades. She returned to the Fever this past fall and she was on the show actually talking about it. She returned to the Fever this past fall after being the assistant GM of the Pacers the past couple years. So they have known each other for two plus decades at least and have a fondness. It's not just them 2. Bree January, 1 of Stephanie White's top assistant coaches was a player on the Indiana Fevers 2012 title team. Karima Christmas Kelly, another assistant coach of this Fever team, was also a player on that 2012 Fever team. So there is just a lot of institutional know how and where that reflects in. I have a feature as I should plug, I guess shameless plug on this story coming out on. You know, that gets into a lot of the topics we're talking about here and some others coming out later this week on the Indiana Fever. Like Steph White knows what it is like to be the star in Indiana. And obviously you know, what Caitlin deals with in terms of attention is very different than what Stephanie White dealt with back in 2000. But you know, Steph White knows that you have to block out the noise that you want to keep kind of the main thing, the main thing. And these are little tidbits that like she has kind of voiced to Caitlyn in passing, like they haven't had a big sit down conversation from what I understand, to get into it. But like she knows the importance of protecting her piece. And Steph White to me, even admitted that, like she let external factors affect her at times. And so that is one of the big things that then on this year's Fever team, they're preaching to block out all the noise. And so that's where again, that institutional knowledge is so important from Steph White and the rest of the staff.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, I love that. And I love that there is a level of familiarity in the front office. We have seen the detriment that happens when there isn't that familiarity and that trust and that fondness, as you said, Ben, and how that can trickle down and into the performance of the team. So now you take that familiarity with Indiana, you take the knowledge of Indiana. Let's be real. Indiana basketball is hot right now. Okay? Pacers and of course the Fever are just, you know, are, are getting excited. Everyone's getting excited about them. And you gotta talk about what's happening on the court. And what I love about this and what's hilarious about this is that Steph White absolutely knows what's hot in Indiana on the court because she's literally analyzing the Pacers. She has, at least during the playoffs, but she's been watching them all throughout the NBA season. She's been watching Fever throughout the WNBA season, scouting for them. And now Sabrina, she's got the opportunity to prepare them to try and take the helm in the W. We talked a little bit about the offense, but I've always known Steph to be defensive minded. So what can she bring either on both sides of the ball, but particularly with amping the Indiana Fever defense.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I mean, I hate to take this back to offense, but I think part of it is you're good, you're good. I apologize. Part of it is just Caitlin Clark had such an enormous offensive burden last season for the Indiana Fever. So if you think about how you get her more energy on the defensive end, some of it is just lessening what she has to do on offense. Right. If she's not running 75 pick and rolls every game because it's the only action that Indiana can get shots out of, then it allows her to have just more energy in her legs to play on the defensive end. And that's also part of why Stephanie White was, you know, emphasizing Caitlin getting stronger, just having her in better shape to take on those defensive assignments. You know, that we saw Like Connecticut Target during the playoffs. Right. Like every single guard who had Caitlin Clark on them, like, that's where Connecticut was going. They were, you know, involving her in a bunch of screen rolls and like staggers and all that stuff. So I think some of it is like, obviously Steph White is a very smart defensively schematic coach. Connecticut was number one or number two in defense in both of her seasons as a head coach there. They had more defensive talent. You know, Alyssa Thomas is about as unique of a defensive player as there is in the wnba and she puts out a lot of fires. I don't think has a player like that. Although Dewana Bonner brings something that they haven't had. Like, you think of her as six' four, probably more of a post defender, but really she's probably the best point of attack defender now on the Indiana Fever. And Sophie Cunningham has been really good at defending in the post. She's just really strong and really difficult to move when you get her in the paint. We saw Lexi hall take on more defensive assignments. I think having that just talent on the wings is going to help quite a bit. But I think just spreading the load a little bit, like making sure that nobody's playing 32 to 35 minutes, like everybody gets more reasonable loads is going to help just, I don't know. Like, I thought Indiana spent a lot of effort on offense and it looked like they were having a ton of fun. They were running around, moving the ball, zipping it everywhere, but they just didn't look like the same team defensively as they did on offense. And if you were able to just conserve, you know, your legs for both sides of the court, I think is part of what the beauty of all that depth is on the Indian favor roster as far as, like, what they can do. I think a lot of this comes back to Aaliyah Boston. I mean, she was a tremendous defensive player in college. Hasn't been as great at navigating the pick and roll as a big in the wnba. What Steph White, I think the biggest change is going to be if she can help Aaliyah Boston with that positioning and making sure that she is not like caught behind the play as far as the anchor of that defense. That, to me is what I have my eye on in terms of this Indiana season.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, including some of that length. You know, there's a. There's a lot of strength at least with the Indiana defense, but there wasn't as much length and agility. And so this is going to be really Exciting to be able to see how that incorporates. Can't be Lexi hall going all over the court this year. It's got to be more than just her. And so that'll be a lot of fun. Now you think about Stephanie White and you think about, you know, her time with the Connecticut Sun. She coached there from 2023 to 2024, had a 55 and 25 record. Went to the post season seven, seven record in the postseason, went to two straight WNBA semifinals. You stop right there. You're like, dang, she did pretty well. The problem was she didn't go further. It was like a ceiling. There was just like a cap on just how far she could go. And I can't imagine Sybrina and Ben, I'll pose it to both of you. I feel as if that's gotta be sitting there. And Ben, I'll start with you because you talked to her. What does Steph have to prove now that she has this generational talent, a litany of tools at her disposal? What does she have to prove and how far she could take this team?

[Chantelle Jennings]

I don't know if it's as much of what she has to prove, but it is certainly what the Fever want to prove with her there. Like, this is a team that is explicit about having title aspirations. Like, the moves that they have made reflect a desire to compete, and not just compete in the long term, but compete in the short term. Right. Like, we've talked about Caitlin Clark and Aaliyah Boston and Kelsey Mitchell kind of being the accelerant and that this might be Caitlin Clark's second year, but, like, the moves they make, the players they brought in reflect a desire to win now. And, you know, Stephanie White, in her first team meeting was open about both wanting to have her players show unity. Like, we're going to need to block out the noise. We're going to need to be united throughout. But also, like, they want to win. Like Caitlin Clark, when I asked her point blank at media day, what does a successful season look like, she said, quote, a championship. It doesn't get clearer than that, folks. It's pretty simple.

[Zena Keda]

Number one, next year on Sabrina Scales. Sorry, go ahead.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Right, exactly. Well, I guess it would be. And. And. And number one, it would come with it.

[Zena Keda]

Right, Right. There you go.

[Chantelle Jennings]

And so, like, that really is the goal for them. And when they brought in all these players, the other thing that they were missing in last year at least was playoff experience. And so that is why they brought in, you know, Howard, Bonner and Colson, all of whom have won WNBA championships. Sophie Cunningham has played in a WNBA Finals with the Phoenix Mercury. Like that is why they targeted some of the players that they did. So yeah, you know, they know that they are going to need to take steps and there's a lot to figure out. And we've talked about some of what they need to figure out. But like that is the goal here. That's what they're trying to I guess prove. That's the hump they're trying to get over. And I want to just underscore it and say like this is commonplace for transcendent stars across basketball to accelerate timelines of franchises. Right. And we've seen that in the NBA and also in the wnba. And I wrote about this actually back in the fall when they had made a coaching change. Like LeBron's first head coach was the head coach in Cleveland for just a season and a half. You know, his first season and a half. MJ's first head coach lasted just one year. Candace Parker's first head coach lasted two seasons. Diana Taurasi's first head coach lasted just one season. Sue Bird, same deal. By her second season there was a new coach on the sidelines. So this is what like great players like Caitlin Clark can do. And that is exactly what we are seeing with the Indiana Fever so far.

[Zena Keda]

Well, Sabrina, if the goal is a championship for the team, perfectly fair. Sabrina, scale number one as well. What is the goal or how far can Caitlin go within this team? You talked about how Stephanie White is going to use her, basically allowing her a little bit more time off the ball. But how far can she go with this team?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean I think if you were to ask Caitlin, and I'm sure Ben has like individual accolades are not really what's on her mind. It's anything in service of the team. But if Indiana does what they are capable of doing, you know, getting a top two three seed during the regular season, advancing far in the post season, like she'll, I mean she was fourth in MVP voting last season as a rookie. You know, I can't imagine that she's going to fall much lower than that. Like this is probably going to be another first team all W type season for Caitlin Clark if everything goes according to plan. And she's going to be probably further into the MVP conversation than she was a year ago. Presumably because I don't think the Las Vegas Aces plan to stretch Asia Wilson the same way they did in 2024. So those statistical markers might be a little bit easier to catch up. With, yeah, I think, you know, everything sort of came down to Caitlin on Indiana last year, and maybe the statistics won't look as gaudy as they did in 2024. You know, although she does have four more games to break that assist record that she did set in 2024. But I do think that collectively, if the team is successful, that is going to make her a far more appealing candidate in terms of some of these individual awards as well.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. All right. This is all coming together. Coming up to the big crescendo, folks. Will the Fever be the next big team? Ben, do you think they could take the title from the New York Liberty this year?

[Chantelle Jennings]

I think it's still a little early for the Indiana Fever to win a championship. I mean, I think one of the things that we have learned just historically, and I talked about this, I want to say it was on a show last week or two weeks ago, they all blend together was like, there usually are these steps of progression that teams have to go through before winning a championship. And some people with the Fever would tell you that they've each gone through individual battle scars. They've built up the scar tissue from shortcomings in past postseason runs. And so, like, that's the experience. And so now that they're coming together, like, they're taking those wounds that have healed and they're bringing it all together and, you know, maybe bypassing the work that is needed together to get over the hump. But I don't know if I fully believe in that theory personally. And I think there's enough questions to still say we might be a year early for them to totally make the jump. I mean, let's keep in mind this is a franchise that still has not had a winning record since 2015.

[Zena Keda]

Right.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Just throw that out there. Right, right. It's a decade. So to suddenly say they're going to win the title feels a little soon. I mean, I get that the roster has totally changed and they have transcendent stars or a transcendent star, truly, and Caitlin Clark on it, but feels a little bit early. The one thing and I know we don't want to look too far at 2026 is like, to me, this is also a test and kind of figure it out year for the franchise. Big picture. Because under contract for next year, it's really Caitlin Clark and Aaliyah Boston, and we'll see what they do with their second round pick. Great start.

[Zena Keda]

Start. Right.

[Chantelle Jennings]

But it means, like, there's going to be a lot of learning that happens.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Chantelle Jennings]

About who they want to keep, what kind of player, who are the best fits. And I think they're still trying to figure that out. New front office this year, who is making decisions. But, like, were they the best ones? Yeah, wait and see. So I think this is more of a still, I think a tough semifinalist out than a even getting to the finals out for me.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, Sabrina, I feel like you're going to be on the same page because I am too. I think it might be a little premature to tell us to say that they're going to be snatching the crown off of big Ellie's head, but I do feel like it'll be a little bit of a tango. And I want to. I want to ask you, you know, if you could predict the end of your season's Sabrina Scales, where would you put Indiana?

[Ben Pickman]

The whole point of these rankings is that they're very of the moment. I can't predict what the headspace is going to be in October. I personally would not be surprised if they made the finals and lost this season. I don't think that they are going to end up winning. I am of the belief that there has to be some collective heartbreak that happens before you get to win. You know, we talked about this with New York and with Las Vegas and all of these other teams that have just had to experience pain before they get to win the big one. And honestly, most great players tend to have to wait until year three to win their title anyway. Like, Asia Wilson didn't get to the finals until 2020. Brianna Stewart won her first title in her third season. So that's. That's sort of what I have my eye on is 2026 for the fever. And again, that all that could be up in the air because like Ben said, they have two players under contract for next season. But yeah, I think. I think there is really something to be said about like going through these experiences together. Like, admittedly, they have a lot more experience than they did last year when they went into the postseason with, I think 19 collective games of post season experience. Dewana Bonner exceeds that like in one year, honestly. But I think there is still some time here.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. All righty, folks. I think that's going to do it for Fever Preview. I think we learned a lot. We clearly learned a lot. All the things that we didn't learn pretty much for those preseason games. We got a lot of information in this breakdown. I am very excited to see them out on the court this season and to see all of the different iterations that we're gonna see as we lead up into All Star break. Because we know even last year with Indiana, it felt as if after the Olympic break, All Star break, Caitlyn came back with a vengeance. And particularly that Caitlyn. Aaliyah Pickenroll became deadly in the second half of the season. So I am very excited to see what they can cook up in the first half and how that can show up and bake and be ready to eat in the second.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Zena, can I just throw one trivia question at you? Do you know where All Star is this year? Because I think we should mention it.

[Zena Keda]

It's in Indiana.

[Chantelle Jennings]

So I don't know how much. I don't know how much of a break she's and the team are going to be getting over All Star break.

[Ben Pickman]

As the host says, not that long in the W side.

[Zena Keda]

Right, right, right, right. That's very true. Well, if anything, it's just adding more gasoline to the fire that is Indiana Fever. Okay, alrighty. When we get back, I got one little game to play and it's very on Clark Preparation is everything, on the court and off, and a strong financial future starts with a solid plan. MassMutual provides tools to help women plan for stronger financial futures, empowering them to navigate life's challenges with confidence and to achieve their dreams. Whether that's learning the basics, managing debts, understanding the value of insurance, or building wealth, they're in your corner. The right team can help you get ready and stay ready. That's why MassMutual is committed to helping women confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stay ready to learn more.

[Chantelle Jennings]

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Dumping it and then switching to intercom.

[Chantelle Jennings]

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[Chantelle Jennings]

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[Chantelle Jennings]

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[Zena Keda]

Hiring Treadmill Finned by Intercon, the leading.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Customer service AI agent now available on every help desk.

[Sabrina Merchant]

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[Zena Keda]

Okay, so I know how ominous that sounded on Clark what the hell does that mean, Xena? It's because we're naming. We're playing a game called Name that Clark in honor of basketball's most famous Clark. Our producer has made up this game, and I am going to be the one that's going to have it be played with Sabrina and Ben. I was so fortunate that I do not have to play this game because I suck at these games. I don't know if you guys know, but Sabrina is quite literally like a Jeopardy. Extraordinaire. Like, she's made for this type of situation.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Ben has literally has played Jeopardy. Before. We should say has been on Jeopardy.

[Zena Keda]

Quite literally has been on Jeopardy. Exactly. I'm sure they don't really have any.

[Ben Pickman]

Categories called Name that, clerk, but we'll.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, this is new. This is new. But the point is, Ben, you're in the hot seat. Um, so let's go ahead and get this going. It's gonna be very simple. I'm gonna tell you about a famous Clark in history, first name or last name being Clark. And you gotta guess who in the world I'm talking about. Y' all get it? Ready?

[Chantelle Jennings]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Let's do it.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, let's do it. First up, this. Clark grew up in New York City and attended Syracuse University as the host of a very popular TV show. They were responsible for introducing the world to what was regularly called the Devil's Music. They hosted many other TV shows, including a regular gig with on December 31, and also made a couple cameo appearances in the Fresh Prince of Bel Air radio playing together.

[Ben Pickman]

Or is it both of us?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Chantelle Jennings]

No. Is it me?

[Ben Pickman]

Did I buzz into buzzing here?

[Chantelle Jennings]

Who is Dick Clark? Who could have buzzed like Dick Clark?

[Zena Keda]

I know, I know. You know what? This is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do moving forward. Let's just say that was like a practice round. That's great. The answer is Dick Clark moving forward. I'm going to say 3, 2, 1, and whoever answers first. You got it? Fair.

[Ben Pickman]

Okay.

[Zena Keda]

Okay.

[Chantelle Jennings]

That's a point for me, though. So I'm going to take that.

[Ben Pickman]

Why is it a point for you? Because you decided to take it.

[Zena Keda]

That was a practice round. That was a practice round. Okay. My producer is telling me I needed to impose more rules. Well, you should have. No, I'm joking. Should have told me. Okay. All right, so if we know it.

[Ben Pickman]

In the middle of the question, can we introduce.

[Zena Keda]

You got to wait for 3, 2, 1. Got to wait for the 3, 2, 1. That's. Is that fair? Is that fair?

[Ben Pickman]

You were the host cena or you.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Asked to someone and then we get to steal if not.

[Zena Keda]

But yeah, no, I feel like, I mean that was a pretty easy one. So let's let that be the practice round. All right, we're going to go 3, 2, 1. Whoever knows the first go. Next up, this famous Clark comes from a Jewish family who immigrated to the US fleeing Russian pogroms. They graduated at the top of their college class. They hosted a short lived reality TV show called Stars Earn Stripes and they ran for president in 2004. Three, two, one.

[Chantelle Jennings]

I got nothing.

[Ben Pickman]

Ran for president in 2004. Okay, hilarious.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. I told you guys this is gonna get a little bit tougher. Dick Clark was easy.

[Ben Pickman]

I got nothing.

[Chantelle Jennings]

I think we need, I think we need an answer reveal here.

[Zena Keda]

The answer reveal is Wesley Clark. Wesley Clark. Not sure if anybody listening knew that. I definitely didn't. Let's keep it moving. Scores zero, zero. This famous Clark was known as the king of Hollywood. One of this, his longtime co stars said of him he earned the title. He walked like one, he behaved like one. And he was the most masculine man I had ever seen in my life. He had balls. And we ain't talking about basketballs, folks. Three, two, one.

[Ben Pickman]

Clark Gable.

[Zena Keda]

Yes. Sabrina. Ding, ding, ding. Clark Gable. And that is one. Oh for Sabrina. Next up, let's keep it going. This famous Clark was named the 26th greatest guitarist of all time by Rolling Stone in 2023. They grew up in Dallas, Texas and as a child were very fond of the movie La Bamba. They are known as being very mysterious and have a history of dating stars like Kristen Stewart and Carrie Brownstein.

[Ben Pickman]

Now what a range.

[Zena Keda]

Hint. This person has a stage name. That is St. Vincent.

[Chantelle Jennings]

I hope so.

[Ben Pickman]

We're just supposed to know what Saint Vincent.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Sabrina. Sabrina, I hope you know the answer here.

[Ben Pickman]

I don't know what St. Vincent's real name is.

[Chantelle Jennings]

I have no idea.

[Ben Pickman]

I just can't imagine somebody dating Kristen Stewart and Gary Bronstein.

[Zena Keda]

Right. I couldn't tell you what this person was until I read it. The answer is Annie Clark. Yup. Did not make this date game. As you can tell. I don't know that person. Okay, let's keep it rolling.

[Chantelle Jennings]

I think, I think after this ends we should just rattle off the Clarks. We know, right?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Those people are.

[Zena Keda]

This is tough. This is tough. All right, let's keep it rolling. This Clark came from a family of athletes in college. Their team made it to the final four. They are a dominant defender and they've played A lot of basketball in the great state of Iowa. 3, 2, 1.

[Ben Pickman]

Dominant defender. So we're not talking about Caitlyn.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, that's good. Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Accurate Final four. And they played a lot of basketball in the great state of Iowa.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Iowa.

[Zena Keda]

There is a hint.

[Ben Pickman]

Okay.

[Zena Keda]

UCLA undergrad and plays for the Jalen Clark.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Jalen Clark.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, Jalen Clark. Sabrina got it again.

[Chantelle Jennings]

She just beat me.

[Ben Pickman]

So fun fact about Jalen Clark. He wore zero at UCLA, was drafted in 2023, had to sit out his entire season as a rookie with an Achilles injury. By the time he comes back in 2024, somebody's already taken the number zero, so he switches it to 22. Great branding.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, there you go. He was probably seeing somebody else at the number 22. That made. Made sense. I like it. Jalen Clark. There you go. All right. Sabrina's two. Oh, Ben. Got one more to kind of try to do something here. Okay, got it. I'm just, like, poking at you. Do something. Wake up. No joke.

[Chantelle Jennings]

She was on Jeopardy.

[Zena Keda]

She was on Jeopardy. I. I literally prefaced all of this, so this is not unexpected. Um, last but not least, this Clark grew up playing the piano. As a freshman in high school, they were named the first team all state in soccer, and in just six games, they scored a total of 26 goals. They're eligible for Italian citizenship, and they also reportedly love a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich from McDonald's. Three, two, one.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Sabrina, you got the answer here.

[Zena Keda]

Okay.

[Ben Pickman]

A piano playing, goal scoring, bacon, egg and cheese enthusiast is what we have here. Right?

[Zena Keda]

With Italian citizenship, at least being eligible for Italian citizenship.

[Ben Pickman]

Sure.

[Zena Keda]

So think heritage.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, and they played Dempsey's real name Clark.

[Zena Keda]

Like, they played a lot of sports growing up in the Midwest. Family of athletes, and they should have gone to a different school before they committed to their college.

[Ben Pickman]

Okay.

[Zena Keda]

There it is, Sabrina. Ding, ding, ding.

[Ben Pickman]

I can't believe that's the one that did it.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, yeah, that. That's where we ended up with this game.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Can we share some. Can we share some Clarks that were missing? Where is Clark Kent? Clark Kent. I was expecting Clark of Lewis and Clark. Like, that seems like that was sitting there as an easy one.

[Ben Pickman]

Annie Clark being him here is very funny.

[Chantelle Jennings]

Had we gone NBA niche, we could have done Ian Clark that I think Sabrina and I both would have gotten, like, longtime NBA vet.

[Ben Pickman]

I need to do a deep dive into Wesley Clark.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. We learned a lot of new things today, and that is what the purpose of this pod is. Okay. Growth. And we just grew in the amount of Clarks that we now know. And we also learned that Sabrina is really good at Jeopardy. Okay, that is gonna do it for today. Good try Ben. Coming up on Friday, it is our big 2025 WNBA prediction pod. Come for our prognosticating on who will win it all and stay for our hot takes on who might have the ugliest alternate jerseys. Nah, seriously though it will be a mix of ser silly. You do not want to miss it. Also send us your questions at no offseason TheAthletic.com also comment wherever you can find us because we want to hear those questions. I particularly want to be, you know, supported in Sabrina Scales, but in case you got a different idea, send that over as well. If you haven't yet, hit the follow button wherever you're listening. So you never miss a pod. And hey, check us out on YouTube. It is a lot more funny to see Sabrina's faces when Ben is talking on video. I promise. Drop us a comment wherever you're listening. We love to read them and if you'd be so kind, give us a rating. We're doing hard work including finding out who Wesley Clark is, so please give us a five star rating. It took a lot of energy to figure that out and it also helps new people find the show. So as always, go check out the Yahoo Sports hub. There's more to read and watch over there. Sports.yahoo.com women-sports on behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening and we will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Cata with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Perot. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Brenna Haupt is our video editor. Shannon Rock Ryan is managing editor of Women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is our director of Audio operations. Preparation is everything, on the court and off, and a strong financial future starts with a solid plan. MassMutual provides tools to help women plan for stronger financial futures, empowering them to navigate life's challenges with confidence and to achieve their dreams. Whether that's learning the basics, managing debts, understanding the value of insurance, or building wealth, they're in your corner. The right team can help you get ready and stay ready. That's why MassMutual is committed to helping women confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stay ready to learn more.

[Sabrina Merchant]

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