← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Can the New York Liberty repeat? How far can the Indiana Fever go? + more burning questions for the WNBA Eastern Conference
00:52:32
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- [00:01]
Zena Cato
21 year old flaw J Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flaw J's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, the this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like flaujay can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more.
- [01:02]
Sabrina Merchant
Fellas, you know Degree Cool Rush deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula.
- [01:07]
Zena Cato
And guys were mad about it.
- [01:08]
Sabrina Merchant
One dude even started a petition. So guess what? Degree heard us admittedly messed up and.
- [01:13]
Ben Pickman
Brought the original Cool Rush scent back exactly how it was.
- [01:17]
Sabrina Merchant
And it's in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So grab some and remember why its cool, crisp and fresh scent made it the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade.
- [01:26]
Zena Cato
De Cool Rush is back and it.
- [01:28]
Ben Pickman
Smells like victory for all of us.
- [01:31]
Zena Cato
Spring savings are in the air and.
- [01:33]
Sabrina Merchant
At Ross, where they have savings on all the brands you love, from the latest fashion to outdoor decor and even pet supplies. Savings are in every aisle. Go to Ross and save 20 to 60% off other retailers prices on your favorite spring finds.
- [01:59]
Zena Cato
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by MassMutual. I'm Zena Cato.
- [02:04]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [02:05]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [02:07]
Zena Cato
Today on the show it is time to ask some big questions about what might happen in the Eastern Conference of the WNBA this season. And we're talking about Will the Liberty repeat? We know that's hard to do. What is the ceiling for Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever? A little bit refurbished Indiana Fever, of course, and which team's young players are poised to step up and make a difference. But first, it is official we have talked about this ad nauseum. Malaysia Folweili is officially headed to lsu. You can read more about all of the transfer portal winners and losers. Chantelle's story is live on the site right Now. And Ben, you've got a newser as well about what happened there and where she landed, et cetera. Get our thoughts over there and please leave our comments. We want to know, how do you think Malaysia is going to fit into lsu? Lots of scoring will be happening down in the bayou. Okay, Ben, you just literally walked in the door from a day at training camp with the New York Liberty, the reigning champions. Want to know what was the vibe? What was it, you know, was it given championship? Let's repeat, like, what can you share with us from your experience there?
- [03:19]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, it's always definitely a big adjustment to go from the end of a WNB season and the intensity of a post season to training camp a few months later. And you see a lot of new faces kind of packed into a gym because unlike when the regular season begins, training camp rosters, most teams around the league have around 18 players who are currently in camp. And so that is far more than the 11 or 12 that you get, you know, once the season actually begins. So you have a lot of rookies who are trying to make the team and or just trying to impress. Right. A team like New York, for instance, a lot of spots are already really accounted for. There's really only one, maybe two spots that are even up for grabs. And so it's a lot of players who are trying to make good impressions with the coaches, trying to make good impressions with teammates. It's just a lot of kind of new. And through two days of Liberty training camp, one of the things that you also feel is like first day of school energy. Right. And I guess that's not something that is only true to New York. You see a lot of social teams around the league posting those kind of classic like school board, you know, pictures that you see families and kids take when they're going to like first grade, second grade, third grade. You see that around the WNBA with players of all ages and experience levels. And it does really give off that vibe. Though we should note that some players, and frankly a good amount of them showed up last week or reported it to their respective teams last week or the week before or even before that. So like there's kind of a trickle in from players getting back into market in the weeks leading up to Sunday, April 27, and then once April 27 happens, it's kind of the first official like day of training camp, like, you know, full speed ahead. And the energy kind of reflects that both in New York and some other teams more broadly.
- [05:10]
Zena Cato
Yeah, you talk about those social posts. I've Been looking across the league and it's so the energy, the bubbliness of all the players, they're just like excited. And also, I think it's a mix of seeing teammates, of course, if you were on the team last year, but like now, the possibility of a new season and getting going and then you make a really great point about making sure that you're making a good impression because whether or not you make a roster, those 10 day hardships, those that, you know, those opportunities to get called up if something happens to a player like this is where you can cement your ability to come in and impact a team. Now, Sabrina, I'm imagining that the vibes are going to be a little different at a New York Liberty training camp where that team is pretty solid. They're returning most of their players versus some of these other teams that have a lot of new faces in the mix and are trying to, you know, figure out what their new group is going to be. Where are you going to be headed and what do you think are some of the other training camps are going to look like in comparison?
- [06:09]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, so I'm in Chicago right now. I'll be at sky training camp later this week and then when I get back home to la, I'll be at Sparks training camp. Two very different situations. Obviously, the New York Liberty, neither of these teams even made the playoffs last year, let alone coming out of a championship. So a lot more fresh start than, you know, recreating the vibes of what happened the year before. But I just wanted to hit back to what you said about, you know, making a good impression even if you're not making the opening night roster like it is. So important to remember that this is a season where we do have Eurobasket during the middle of the year and a lot of players will be going back to Europe during June to compete for their national team. So you look at a team like the New York Liberty where Leo Fibich, Marine Johannes Niara, Sabley, Jonquil Jones will probably be competing for Eurobasket. So that leaves a lot of openings in the middle of the season for players, you know, to stick for those really flare contracts, those hardship contracts. And you never know what's going to happen after that. Right. Like if you make a good impression during that time, contracts aren't guaranteed until after that date in the wnba, so you could theoretically bump somebody else out of their spot, you know, later down the line. So it's. With such a small league, it's really important that you make good contacts, good networking connections with like, everybody who's around, because there's only 13 GMs that control your fate around the entire league. And if you can get an in with one, like, they all talk, they'll put in a good word for you somewhere else. So that's just something that I wanted to highlight first. But, you know, as far as, like, the, the different situations in camp, like, I think you look at a team like Los Angeles and they have 18 committed players coming to camp, right? And you look at a team like Atlanta, who has slightly fewer. And some people even have more than 18 that are signed to their training camp roster because a few of them are kind of come late. So a lot of teams approach this differently. Like, some of them know who's going to make the roster, and they're just trying to get everybody on the same page heading into the WNBA season. And some literally don't know who are going to fill slots 10, 11, and 12. And so this is legitimately a competition to see, okay, who do we like the best, who fits best with our core. And everyone sort of has a different way of approaching these two weeks before the start of the season.
- [08:10]
Zena Cato
What I'm excited to see for the first time is going to be the Valkyries. I will find a way to their training camp sometime this season in the midst of also the Warriors NBA playoffs, which I'm covering too. So it's going to be crazy. But I'm very excited because that is, if there's any team that exemplifies, we don't know what's going to happen, it is that team for sure. So I'll keep you guys posted on what I see there. But let's take a step back, look at the bigger picture and dive into the Eastern Conference, which, let's just be real, in the wnba, the league is so small. Like, when you think Eastern Conference, you barely think about it that way throughout the season. But this is a nice, easy way for us to organize our thoughts. And I think that we, we want to start with the team, Ben, that you just visited. These are the last year champions, the New York Liberty. You know, everyone knows the only question really surrounding this team is can they repeat as champions? From that perspective, what are your thoughts, Ben?
- [09:06]
Ben Pickman
I mean, it's been a question that I've probably heard asked in different forms a half dozen times in different ways through the first two days of training camp. Xena. And you know, I think first and foremost, New York hasn't run from acknowledging that, like, this is a really tough task in front of them and that, you know, this is again, very tough to do and that is the goal in front of them. They are not running from that at all. The thing that I think I've taken note of through the first two days is the different energy around the team this year is while the core of, you know, Sabrina Ionescu, John Qual Jones and Brianna Stewart, you know that three in particular is intact now for the third straight season. There are some changes on the edges and the big change comes in the form of Natasha Cloud, who is going to play a big role for the New York Liberty. And you know, Cloud said as much on Sunday. Like you can see her on the court and you can also hear her and you can hear her everywhere. And when she said something along those lines, she made sure to kind of let out a scream in the Barclays center in the practice gym where New York was working out. Like she has such presence on and off the floor that so often with a championship team, when you think about that second year, they talk about like the need to keep things fresh and inject new energy. But Cloud does that as well as I got to imagine any kind of new player feeding into a championship roster. Like she is someone who again, like very experienced in the league, a really, really good point guard, a all W defender and she's joining this new team that wants to repeat and she just brings a ton of energy. And I think like that is the kind of player that is will help to inject a ton of new life in New York. So just when we think about energy and the chances of repeating and not being stale, like I think she has already helped with that and she will continue to do so. As you know, the regular season progresses and we eventually get to the postseason. 2.
- [11:05]
Zena Cato
I'm so happy you brought that up because when you think about Natasha Cloud's presence and particularly it's not gonna be a one on one replacement, but think about who's not there and how they played and that's benjulaney Hamilton. So thinking about the fact that benjulaney Hamilton may, may not be available to play as she is nursing that knee injury, that's a different look on their perimeter, in terms of their defense, in terms of their leadership, I'm looking at that might be a different hurdle for them to overcome in terms of who they were as a core and having to shift and morph into something new. But what are some other hurdles that New York may face as they try to repeat this year? Sabrina?
- [11:46]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I mean, I think we've Talked about this so much in the wnba, how hard it is to repeat. You know, the Las Vegas Aces are the only team that's done it in the last 20 years. You kind of need the new energy. I'm glad Ben brought that up. Like, Vegas made that so clear that it was so important for them to bring in, you know, ALICIA CLARK In 2023 for that repeat bid or what they tried to do with Tiffany Hayes in 2024. It just. Things get a little stale if you have the same team over and over again. So having a little bit of new life, you know, just different vibes, it all helps to just change the energy around the team. Right. I keep saying, wanting to say vibe. I'm really sorry about that. It just helps change the energy.
- [12:21]
Zena Cato
It's real. It's real.
- [12:22]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. And I think for Natasha Claude, it's particularly interesting to me because she was on a team in 2019 that won a title with the Washington Mystics. They never really had a chance to repeat. She opted out of the bubble the next year. By the time she comes back, it's an entirely different team. And so you think about her understanding the gravity of wanting to repeat. She never got to go through that opportunity. But I'm sure it is significant for her, too, to be part of this title chase in a way that. That maybe her other teammates are going through for the first time as well. So I think that's kind of cool that she gets this chance with the Liberty, if not the Mystics, you know, considering that Mystics team just never got a second go round. But, you know, that that forward situation is really interesting with the Liberty because it's not just Benijah Laney Hamilton, it's also Kayla Thornton, who is, you know, taken in the expansion drive by the Golden State Valkyries. And they have Rebecca Gardner coming in. They have Natasha Cloud coming in. Both of those players I'd see are more two guard, you know, perimeter guard defenders than they are forwards in the way that Laney Hamilton, Kayla Thornton were. They do have Kennedy Burke, who was on the team last year, who I assume is going to take on a slightly bigger role this season. But Laney Hamilton and Thornton are just so solid. You knew exactly what you were going to get out of them. And it gave the Liberty a really big physical identity. That as much as I trust the defensive prowess of Natasha Cloud, of Rebecca Gardiner, they're just very different kinds of players than the ones that they are theoretically replacing. So there's just kind of this, like, middle combo forward player that I'm wondering, like, who steps into that void for New York?
- [13:45]
Zena Cato
Yeah, those two were very much imposers on defense in the way that they play defense, and it was tough to get around them. Very much frustration. Ben, what are you thinking about, like, who's posing a threat? What are some of the hurdles that New York has to get over or people they have to get through?
- [14:01]
Ben Pickman
Well, can I just say first to fill the void, I mean, there's a player we haven't mentioned, and that's Leonie Fibich. Right. She is the void filler for New York right now.
- [14:08]
Sabrina Merchant
I think it's her more as a guard defender than a forward defender. I could be wrong, but yeah, I.
- [14:12]
Ben Pickman
Mean, I think she's going to have to be that Swiss army knife player. Like she is six four and. And we saw in the postseason what she can kind of do in terms of, you know, guarding smaller players and guarding bigger players. And, you know, cloud also replaces the void left by Courtney Vandersloot, who, you know, had been such a staple for the last two years and then kind of moved to the bench. In terms of, to your question of like, who are the players or the teams rather that are, you know, pose a threat? I mean, top line, it's the Indiana Fever, we should say though, like, and we should make this very clear. Conference seating or conference structure does not matter in the WNBA postseason the way it does in the NBA playoffs. Right. And so when we're looking at conferences and conference champions, that's particularly important as it relates to the Commissioner's cup, which is the WNBA's kind of in season tournament. It actually has been going on longer than the NBA's in season tournament for all those who are kind of new to the league. And so conference play matters then. But as it relates to total title contenders, you know, New York is looking at, yeah, the Indiana Fever are, I think, the next best team in the Eastern Conference, but you know, we could have a finals come October with two Western Conference teams. And that is totally. That is totally okay.
- [15:27]
Zena Cato
Well, I'm happy you brought up Indiana because, yeah, I would say that this is the team that poses the biggest threat. Um, this is a team that not only had an unbelievably dynamic back court with Caitlin Clark, Kelsey Mitchell, two all stars last year, they also had a solid front court, of course, Leah Boston just consistently being good since she entered the league. They lost some size inside, of course. No, no Smith anymore, no Timmy Fag Bentley. But they brought in some size as well. Not only inside, but also Particularly on the perimeter. I'm thinking about Duana Bonner and they have a new coach as well. So they beefed up, they refurbished, they're looking shiny, they're looking new, and they are coming in adding in Duanna Bonner, Natasha Howard, Sophie Cunningham and Sydney Colson. So let's start with the head of the Snake for Indiana. This is Caitlin Clark. What is the ceiling for her and then particularly for her and the impact she can have on the fever to elevate them towards the top of this conference in the league.
- [16:32]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, we're talking about a player that was already first team AllW last season and then top five of WNBA MVP voting. So for her, I think Clark being in the MVP conversation is kind of the baseline at this point. You know, she's already been that good, that good as a rookie and I imagine she's going to take another step forward. I mean, we talked about how that Olympic break was so good for her to get some rest and come in with her legs underneath her. Now she has an actual offseason, you know, that she got to take off where, you know, she didn't play an unrivaled, she didn't play overseas. So this is a lot of time for Caitlin to just get her body right and come in in the best shape possible for this upcoming season. And I think that's going to pay huge dividends for her. Like, there's, there's no like ramping up period this time around for Caitlin Clark. She's going to come in on game one and be already one of the top five players in wnba. So I mean, I think MVP has to be like the ceiling for her. Right? Like, she's, she's already in that conversation. So for her to, you know, get even higher in the vote total, potentially winning that award either this year or next is what I would expect from her.
- [17:28]
Zena Cato
Yeah, I'd be on the same page there. And like Ben, I'm thinking you got MVP caliber play in your point guard. That kind of sets the tone for everything else you're doing on the court. And now you look at all these pretty tools that Indiana has equipped Caitlin with on top of what she already had in Kelsey Mitchell and Aaliyah Boston. I mean, you've got Dejuana Bonner coming up the, coming up the floor, in the trail on the wing, being able to knock down shots. You got Natasha Howard that can bang inside, Sophie Cunningham, of course, another outside shooter. This is, this is fun. This is fun. You're going to be able to see this team kind of play in a completely different way than you even saw last year. How far could they go with all of these new tools under their belt?
- [18:06]
Ben Pickman
You mentioned all the new that the Indiana Fever have roster wise, Zena. And we should say that they only have five returning players from last year's team on this year's roster. And that is only part of what is new around the Indiana Fever. You mentioned a new head coach in Stephanie White. You have two new top basketball decision makers in Amber Cox and Kelly Groskoff. You have new assistants, you have a new PR person, you have more new support staff, new player development coach. Like, there is so much new around this team. And the Indiana Fever, mind you have not had a winning season since 2015. They have not even been out of the first round since then. Right? So while it is fair that Caitlin Clark has MVP expectations and it wouldn't be totally shocking for them to win a championship this year, you know, the kind of like adage of you have to go through growing pains together and kind of, you know, go build scar tissue up before you can get over the hump, like that would seem to apply to the Indiana Fever this year. And if we just go down a little bit of WNBA history or recent WNB history, that's kind of what we've seen. Like the number one pick doesn't necessarily just win a championship in the following year, especially if that number one pick is the best player on the team, right? So The Aces in 2019, they ended up making the 2020 finals. They lost that year. Jackie Young, technically the number one pick in 2019, but that year is kind of an outlier because Asia Wilson was again the number one pick before that and she made the leap that year to get them to the finals and again they lost. If you look at the Seattle Storm in 2018, they won the title. That's, I guess in Stewie's third season, not her second. So that would put the Indiana Fever on pace to win it next year. The Phoenix Mercury, they ended up winning the 2014 title. They had picked Brittney Griner number one the year earlier. But again the Phoenix Mercury also had Diana Taurasi, an all time great kind of leading the way on that team. And they had a very veteran team beyond just Brittney Griner. One of the big exceptions, and maybe it isn't even a full exception, maybe Sabrina will correct me, is the 2011 Minnesota Lynx. They had the number one pick. They took Maya More and won the title year. But again that 2011 team is, you know, full of all time great. So a little bit of history would say it wouldn't be shocking if the Fever made the finals, they even could win it. But if you want to look at past precedent here, like maybe not the year bet, make them a bet for, for next year's title is kind of what I'm saying.
- [20:41]
Zena Cato
I love the history lesson, you know, I love history. I think if you really just want to go back one, like, look at the New York Liberty. They needed to go through a run after amassing unbelievable talent in Briana Stewart and Jonquil Jones and Courtney Vandersloot. You would have thought, oh, boom, bam, let's go championship rings get, get them sized. But no, they needed to go on a run against the Aces, who had also gone through their growing pain. So it is very normal to imagine that Indiana may need a little bit of time to get to the promised land. Okay, we get back on the second break, we're gonna talk about the rest of the Eastern Conference. 21 year old flaw J. Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flage's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like flaujay can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more. I think you're on mute Workday starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute. Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you can find the right job for you. Get started@LinkedIn.com jobs finding where you fit LinkedIn knows how there are people out there all across the country pushing boundaries to grow the game of golf, like champion speed golfer Lauren Kupp, who plays faster than anyone else, and Will Lowry, whose work in the golf community inspires More kids to get into the game. As a champion partner of the Masters, bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America bank of America NA member FDIC. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved. Now I know we could spend a whole another hour on the Indiana Fever, but good news is we've got an Indiana Fever deep dive where we will spend about four to five minutes on them. But that will be coming soon. For now we've got to go into the rest of the Eastern Conference because there's going to be some more teams with a lot of young talent looking to disrupt the path to a repeat for the Liberty and a first time for the Indiana Fever. And I'm talking about the Chicago sky, the Atlanta Dream, the Washington Mystics. And I want to know, Ben, Sabrina, you know, out of these teams, which team do you think stands to put up the best fight against New York and Indiana? And I forgot Connecticut as well. What am I thinking?
- [24:15]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, if we're just talking about this season, I think Atlanta is the pretty clear answer. You know, they have multi time all stars in Ryan Howard, Brittney Griner, Bree Jones, Ali Shagra I don't believe is a multi time all star. I could be wrong there, but this.
- [24:28]
Zena Cato
Was the first year, was her last.
- [24:30]
Sabrina Merchant
Year, very talented roster. So if we're talking about just the 2025 season, I think that is the team just with their overall level of talent. What I hope is going to be a more maximized offense with Carlos Mesco running the show and then Jordan Canada at the helmet point guard. I think that's a group that has a good amount of defensive intensity to really get into teams like New York and Indiana, you know. But if we're talking about going forward, like in terms of who I think is going to potentially challenge for a title alongside one of those two teams in, you know, the near future, I'm not sure that the dream would be my pick.
- [25:04]
Zena Cato
Okay, interesting. And I think that's true. I think there's a lot of veterans within the, within Atlanta. And you think about the fact that Atlanta was making the playoffs, they just couldn't get past that playoff, that first round hump with that talent that they had and they've, they've bolstered up particularly in size and so that will be very interesting on how that plays out. Now thinking about a team with size, Chicago had that handled with Angel Reese and Camila Cardoso. But now you're looking at some of the veteran players they've brought in on the perimeter. I'm particularly thinking of Courtney Vandersloot coming back to her sky team and maybe wanting to bring another opportunity for the playoffs and maybe bring again, Ben, looking at Chicago, Washington, Connecticut, any of these teams or who's closest to winning a title next in your opinion?
- [25:54]
Ben Pickman
Again, I agree. I think Atlanta is my answer both in the present and in the future because of they still have some young talent in Ryan Howard who, you know, we should have mentioned, I guess, in the intriguing episode. She's one of the players I have spotlighted for how does unrivaled help her? She was one of the best defensive players in my opinion during the unrivaled, you know, first league experience and she made, you know, unrivaled all second team. So I'm interested to see what jump she makes from that to this. On Chicago, they're really, really interesting because like, yeah, they didn't make the playoffs last year, but they have a pretty veteran team. Right. They have Beck Allen, they have Ariel Atkins, they have added Kia Nurse, Courtney Vandersloot. They brought back like a lot of that core. It's not just first and second year players, whereas like Washington, the core of their team really does seem to be in a develop developmental phase. And I think Connecticut, though their roster has some variety in terms of, you know, someone like Tina Charles on one end and plenty of rookies on the other. Like Connecticut to me still feels a long way from legitimately competing. Chicago seems to have aspirations not only to get back into the playoffs, but kind of not fully bottom out. They never really did. And so yeah, you have recent Cardozo kind of as young player pillars of what they're doing. But around those younger players, they have a lot of experience and a lot of those players again will hit free agency. And so, you know, when we look at a team that they clearly want to be competitive, like, like that is very clear because I think they want to say, well, yeah, we have good young players and if you come here then we're going to take that next step. And that is, you know, a sign that they're signaling to vets right now and also in the future. So they're certainly a team to spotlight. I don't know if it's going to work, I'm not betting it, I guess, but it certainly could. Like, it's definitely an interesting approach that Jeff Pagiaka and that front office are taking.
- [27:58]
Zena Cato
Yeah. And I'm happy you brought up those Two particular additions and Ariel Atkins and Kia Nurse. Because Ariel Atkins had been holding it down in Washington for a while and a little bit on her own in the midst of injuries and different movements that were happening with the Mystics. And then Kia Nurse, same thing. You know, she only had one season with Los Angeles, but she was also a key leader and veteran on that team. And I'm imagining, I'm just like thinking about those two coming in and kind of finally wanting to make an impact and be able to have a little bit more depth into the playoffs that they've had than they've had in recent years. So yeah, those that. I'm happy you brought those two up. Cause I almost forgot about how impactful they could potentially be as well. Now you talk about, we've talked about on previous shows, all three of these teams, particularly the Washington Mystics, Connecticut, you know, you can add Atlanta, Chicago as well with the young core. If you're a GM and we're not talking about just this upcoming season, but you're a GM if and you're looking at a young core, young key players, who would you want on your team? Like which of these teams as a gm you're like, ooh, I have quite the foundation.
- [29:09]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think this is probably like an unpopular answer, but I would want Washington. I look at, you know, teams that we're talking about and I'm not sure that I see a singular player where I am positive that they can be the number one option on my title winning team. And if I don't have that player yet, then I'm going to need to get that through the draft. And Washington is the only team here that really seems positioned to actually take advantage of the draft in the upcoming seasons. Like Washington is the only team this year that's really trying to rebuild. You know, they have made it very obvious with their trade of Ariel Atkins or trade of Carly Samuelson not signing a single external free agent. This is a team that is trying to develop internally and, you know, build through the draft, which is what their counterpart, the Washington Wizards are doing in the NBA too. It's very much an organizational mandate. So I see a team that is poised to take advantage of the 2026 draft, that is poised to take advantage of the 2027 draft, which could be, you know, the JuJu Watkins, Madison Booker Hidalgo draft. They have the opportunity to swap picks with Chicago in that draft too. You know, if things go hokey in the lottery or, you know, things don't work out for the sky. So I just look at a team that's giving itself more bites at the apple. I already really like Aaliyah Edwards and Shakira Austin, you know, as foundational frontcourt pieces in Washington. So to me, like, it's not to say that I don't like the players on Chicago or Atlanta or Connecticut. It's just I'm not sure that I see like the Caitlin Clark or you know, like if Brianna Stewart Collier, that could be that best player. And if you don't have it, you gotta get it. And the Mystics seem best positioned to do that.
- [30:42]
Zena Cato
Yeah, I like that Mystics pick too, because of the variety you get in the young core they already have. And then on top of being able to get draft assets, you've got size, you've got guard play, you've got a ball handler already developing in Washington, particularly with the additions they made this year with Sonia Citron, Georgia Amor and Kiki Iri Fenn. And so you're seeing the whole team being built out from all different positions as opposed to some teams being heavier on the guard side or some teams being heavier on the size side. Particularly looking at Chicago. Ben, when you're thinking about which team feels more equipped to set themselves up for success in the future, maybe not this season, but in the future, which team's young core excites you the most?
- [31:27]
Ben Pickman
Again, Sabrina said it's not the popular opinion, but Sabrina, it's popular with me because I also think it is the Washington Mystics and I think it is for that same reason that I just want to drill down on. Like they're one of the only teams in the league, if not the only team right now that really does seem like they are trying to build fully for the future. Like they are trying to. I know, you know, we talk about Dallas, they're talking about being, you know, foundational habits. That's true. But like if the Dallas Wings made the playoffs and pushed a team in the postseason, like that wouldn't be totally shocking. Whereas like it would be in the case of the Washington Mystics. Like, that is a team that I think knows where they are in the pecking order of the WNBA and is realistic about expectations. Expectations in a way that not every franchise is. So you can either be a person who kind of loves hope and loves the kind of what if as Sabrina outlined very well or I think that other like team is Chicago. And if you're kind of if you think that recent Cardozo will both continue to be multi time all Stars and that even without kind of having A ton of draft capital and without having, you know, at least in the present, a facility that historically matches up with others around the league and has kind of been a little bit more, you know, has dealt with more instability compared to some other franchises, like maybe if they get some take another step forward this year, they put themselves in a good position for free agency. As I said, going forward, like you can kind of make the case. And that's the argument that they're not going to build through the draft, they're going to build through recent Cardozo. We'll see what Haley Van Lith brings and then they're going to just try and like get vets around them. And that's the other approach that they are clearly taking. I'm not convinced it's going to lead them to be a legitimate title contender, but. And as a result, like I'm kind of saying play the long game like Sabrina and go the hope route. But those are, I think, the two doors that you're deciding between of those three teams.
- [33:29]
Zena Cato
Well, the saying goes, patience is a virtue and I think that that's what Washington is trying to play into right now. Okay, so let's try and wrap this up a little bit more rapid fire style. Looking at the entire Eastern Conference. 1. Which free agent signing will be the most impactful? Ladies first. Sabrina, who you think the free agent.
- [33:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Signing that I think is gonna be the most impactful is? Bri Jones in Atlanta. I think she's just been a heavily underrated player throughout her career in Connecticut just because of the variety of roles she's had to assume behind Jonquil Jones. Liz Thomas starting coming off the bench, she's just, you know, by definition one of the very most effective players in the WNBA has been over the last four years, you know, excluding the one season that she missed with her Achilles injury. But, you know, for a team that had a lot of difficulty scoring the ball well, like Bree Jones just does that at a very high level night in and night out. So that's, I think, can be the most impactful free agency acquisition in the East.
- [34:30]
Zena Cato
I like it. Solid player inside and yes, quiet confidence to her game. You can always count on her. It's not gonna be super loud, but this could be an opportunity for her to kind of break out. Ben, free agent signing most impactful.
- [34:42]
Ben Pickman
Okay, if I'm sticking to the question and I'll throw a player in that we haven't said, it's Tina Charles, that's.
- [34:47]
Zena Cato
Where you're gonna set up. If I'm sticking To the question Tina.
- [34:50]
Ben Pickman
Charles is an acceptable answer here. We have not said the Connecticut Sun. I don't expect to be very good compared to some of the teams in the top of the conference, but she's going to get a lot of opportunity. And I would say it is a safe bet that five years down the road, if the sun have kind of built with this core of rivers in Morrow, that a lot of them also, you know, reflect on that one year or however long it is with Tina Charles and talk about what they've learned from her. So I think there's both an on court impact and also a like being a professional impact that she brings. But if I was going to cheat the question, I would say Natasha Cloud, who was again acquired via trade to the New York Liberty. So not a free agent acquisition, but we've already covered that. I think she'll have a big impact on New York.
- [35:34]
Zena Cato
Okay, I like that. I like that. Let's keep it going. Which new regime? Regime. Which new regime? That is a French word, so it just seems really weird to say it in English. Which new regime? GM front office coaching are you guys most interested in seeing. Ben, you first.
- [35:53]
Ben Pickman
For me, it's the Indiana Fever, and again, we're going to go deeper on them, but they made the coaching change that they did because they want to compete for a championship this year. The expectations are high. There is a lot of new. It is Stephanie White who is returning to the Indiana Fever, having played for them back in the day, having been their head coach, having also been an assistant there. You know, she's bringing someone in like Bree January, one of her top assistants, who again, one of the best players in the franchise's history as a player, now returning as an assistant coach. Like we talked about the expectations, I'm just really curious to see what adjustments they make as a staff. And, you know, obviously there's a lot new, as we said, and we're gonna see what happens. So that is my.
- [36:39]
Zena Cato
There you go. Okay. Sabrina, what about you?
- [36:42]
Sabrina Merchant
For me, it's Washington. You know, I alluded to why their upcoming future is particularly interesting to me because of all of the different directions it could go. But, you know, you mentioned Xena, patience is a virtue. And it's one thing to say that you want to rebuild through the draft, and it's another thing to go through a season where you're 9 and 35 and all of a sudden you really want to tack some wins on the next year. And do you have the stomach for a long rebuild? I'm not entirely sure. So just I'm curious if they actually are going to go through with this plan. If they have the gall to just wait it out and actually wait out some draft picks. And then like they have a new head coach too in Sydney Johnson, who I think most fans are pretty unfamiliar with. His most recent women's basketball experience is with USA with three on three. So, you know, he's been able to coach Brittany Sykes in that capacity, but I don't really know what he's like as a basketball mind. So just how he's able to develop a very, very deep crew of young players is one of the most important questions that's going to decide, you know, the Mystics future from here on out.
- [37:40]
Zena Cato
Okay, let's keep it rolling. First time all star in the Eastern Conference, Sabrina.
- [37:46]
Sabrina Merchant
I think I have going for a clean sweep here. Shakira Austin is going to be my first.
- [37:50]
Zena Cato
Wow, look at that.
- [37:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, there you go in on whatever's happening in the nation's capital, Washington. But she has been kind of injury prone the last couple of years. But I think we saw with Lunar Owls and unrivaled when Shakira Austin's on the floor, she's very impactful. She's a dynamite defensive player. She has more in her bag offensively in terms of creating from the top of the key. She's going to get so many touches on this Mix 6 roster just with the type of crew that they have assembled and I think she'll be able to put up a lot of counting stats. I know it's harder to get onto the all star team coming from a team with a losing record, but I do believe if she is just head and shoulders above what everybody else on the Mystics is doing and she's able to have like high profile performances going up against like a Brianna Stewart or, you know, Brittney Griner Nightlanta, if she can have a couple of those games to just highlight, I think it's going to be a good start to the season at the very least for Shakira Austin.
- [38:43]
Zena Cato
I like it, Ben.
- [38:44]
Ben Pickman
I like that call by Sabrina and I think I'm going to use very similar logic in the pick I have, and that is Marina Mabry of the Connecticut sun because again, while the sun might not be a very good team, someone is going to have to score the basketball and she's going to have the basketball in her hand a lot and she is going to score a lot of points and take a lot of shots and find teammates versus and so Marina has put herself in position, I think, to, you know, in the conversation for All Star teams in past seasons. There have been years in which, you know, I know people have either voted for her or given her heavy consideration of voting. She's bounced around a few teams and you know, again after the trade requests like she is here still with the Connecticut sun entering this season and so I think she's well positioned to fill up the box score and a lot is just going to have to run through her as an offensive creator. So someone who is again knocked on the door of an All Star team in the past, never gotten there and maybe with Connecticut, even if they're, you know, again not one of the league's best teams, she finally gets the nod.
- [39:42]
Sabrina Merchant
That trader is exactly why I didn't put Marina Mabry on my list because I just have no idea where she's going to end up by the time those All Star teams come out there.
- [39:49]
Zena Cato
That's a great point. That's a great point. Okay, let me quickly, I'll round up free agent signing for me. Most impactful. I think Djana Bonner is going to have something to say about trying to close out her career on a top note, especially playing alongside Caitlin Clark, which new regime I'm actually interested in Chicago. Tyler Marsh got a lot of new talent in the back in his front office. I'm excited to see what happens. We know that that's been a little bit unstable up in Chicago. We'll see what happens in terms of bringing stability there. And first time All Star, I don't think Natasha Cloud's been an All Star, has she?
- [40:25]
Ben Pickman
She is not. That is a very good choice.
- [40:27]
Zena Cato
Great poll. I think that is going to be my first time All Star for the Eastern Conference.
- [40:37]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [40:40]
Zena Cato
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Sabrina Merchant
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Zena Cato
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Zena Cato
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Zena Cato
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Ben Pickman
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Sabrina Merchant
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- [41:35]
Zena Cato
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- [41:55]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [42:27]
Zena Cato
You have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit eglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. All right, we got a new fun segment called out of Context. Here's how it's going to work. Ben is going to give us a quote from someone in women's basketball. This time it's gonna be someone related to the wnba. In future episodes it could be unrivaled college, whatever. But right now we are focusing on the W, specifically the Eastern Conference. And then Sabrina and I, we are going to guess who said it, where and when, which is going to be incredibly difficult. So, Ben, what do you have?
- [43:08]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, you know, I take some of these exercises way too ser. So I'm gonna, you know, I expect.
- [43:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Try to do some quotes to be coming some digging here.
- [43:16]
Ben Pickman
I have some honorable mentions, but I won't even throw them in. Here's the quote. After some extensive research, here it is. Quote. I picked up golf a little bit and I found out I was a lefty. I'm ambidextrous. And I continued to try to hit it righty and I couldn't, so I flipped the club and I hit it lefty. I can now hit the ball.
- [43:35]
Zena Cato
Whoa.
- [43:35]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. You would have thought a WNBA quote. I was gonna give you a WNBA piece of context, but no.
- [43:40]
Zena Cato
Okay, okay, Sabrina, like, but first thought I'm. Wow. Okay. I'm thinking it's a Liberty player because he was just at Liberty camp, but he's been a little bit around. I know. A little bit of everywhere.
- [43:55]
Sabrina Merchant
Ben is always up on the WNBA content network just watching video from everything that happens around the country.
- [44:01]
Zena Cato
Yeah. Right.
- [44:03]
Sabrina Merchant
So I think golf. I think Ryan Howard and Alicia Gray, but they've already picked up golf.
- [44:07]
Zena Cato
Oh, right. Because. Right.
- [44:09]
Sabrina Merchant
They've been. Ali Shagray knows she's a lefty, so I don't think she would need to learn that by playing golf.
- [44:15]
Zena Cato
Yeah. It has to be someone that is naturally right handed. For some reason I thought Natasha Cloud, but Natasha Cloud's a lefty, so never mind.
- [44:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Let's see. Obviously a lot of news with Caitlin picking up golf. Yeah. Over the off season.
- [44:33]
Ben Pickman
I was trying to throw you there a little bit unreasonable. Yeah.
- [44:37]
Zena Cato
Now wait, question, Ben, is this a person from the Eastern Conference?
- [44:41]
Ben Pickman
Yes, this is an Eastern Conference.
- [44:43]
Sabrina Merchant
I assumed it was Eastern Conference. This is ours.
- [44:46]
Zena Cato
Right, of course, of course. I didn't know. I mean, you never know. Ben's like, you never know what he's throwing at us. I don't know. Dang, this is hard.
- [44:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Picked up golf. Say that again. Ben, can you read it once more?
- [44:57]
Ben Pickman
Absolutely. I will do my best, game show host and read it again with the same intonations. I picked up golf a little bit and I found out I was a left lefty. I'm ambidextrous and I continue to try to hit it righty. And I couldn't. And so I flipped the club and I hit it lefty. I can now hit the ball.
- [45:13]
Zena Cato
For some reason I keep thinking Brianna Stewart. I feel like she would have this, like, very nonchalant way of being like, yeah, flip. I. I tried this. I flipped the club. Turned out I could hit it. Like, I just feel like she would.
- [45:23]
Sabrina Merchant
Say her being able to do a lot of things just supremely easily is a very Stewie. Yeah. Just like casually discovering your ambidextrous seems like a kind of thing that could happen to Briana Stewart. Yeah, I got you.
- [45:35]
Zena Cato
Yeah. I just feel like. And she's probably like in training camp, right? Now practicing her swing, like. Okay, the only thing is I can see it.
- [45:44]
Sabrina Merchant
Stewie has the finals run. Right. Is founding a league.
- [45:48]
Zena Cato
She has unrivaled. Right. Does she have time to pick up.
- [45:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Calls and then had knee surgery.
- [45:54]
Zena Cato
That's true. That's true. Who was in Florida, Right. You got to think about Miami and Rivals.
- [45:59]
Sabrina Merchant
True. I. I think Stewie is a good call just because of again, like, the ease of her discovering that she's ambidextrous is very hard.
- [46:07]
Zena Cato
Oh.
- [46:11]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. Why don't we get Stewie? I'm good with that. Let's say Stewie when and where Is that relevant here? I assume it would just have been.
- [46:20]
Zena Cato
Right. Yeah, something. Okay, we're going to put our vote in. Is going to be Stewie that she is the one that has picked up golf.
- [46:28]
Ben Pickman
And yeah, your logic is correct in a lot of ways, but the pick is wrong. It's actually Sabrina Ionescu.
- [46:35]
Zena Cato
I knew it was gonna be. That was gonna be my second guess that I'm toasted being busy.
- [46:40]
Sabrina Merchant
What in the world is Sabrina UNESCO.
- [46:42]
Ben Pickman
Taking up golf that. Well, that's the thing about it.
- [46:45]
Zena Cato
But what. Okay, so the reason why I had Sabrina also in my mind is because of Currybrand. And Steph loves, like, I mean, she's not with Curry brand, of course, but she's Nike. Steph and Steph and Sabrina have this connection and, you know, he loves golf and maybe, like, I don't know, through the ether of basketball and shooting and being really good at things that, you know, and at least we got the.
- [47:11]
Sabrina Merchant
When and where, right.
- [47:13]
Zena Cato
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:14]
Ben Pickman
It's a good question. I gotta do some more reporting on when Sabrina Unescu actually took up golf and when she had the time to do it. Also, she went on a big international tour with Nike this off season. But I thought it was interesting that someone who, as you said, Sabrina, like, super competitive golf historically frustrates a lot of professional athletes because again, like, it's all about muscle memory. And that little white ball just stares right back at you and doesn't move. And Sabrina can hit, you know, threes at crazy distances, but she couldn't hit a golf ball straight right handed. And so I think it just speaks to, like, her competitive mindset. Also just kind of fun that, you know, she flips a club around and can do it both ways. I will say, like, it's not totally unheard of for someone to write with one hand and play golf on the other side. Also, not to compare myself to Sabrina UNESCO in any way, but I do write left handed and I play golf righty. So I appreciate the kind of having.
- [48:08]
Zena Cato
To do things a little differently.
- [48:10]
Ben Pickman
There you go.
- [48:11]
Zena Cato
I write with my right hand and I play with my left.
- [48:14]
Ben Pickman
And I will say if you would like to know the Briana Stewart fun fact that emerged from training camp, she went to pottery class a few weeks ago and she made a bowl different. So.
- [48:23]
Zena Cato
Yeah, not the same. Got it. Got it. Well, that was a great intro to out of Context. Wow. We were so close. I promise you, if it wasn't Brianne, I was gonna say Sabrina. Thank you, Ben. That was a lot of fun. I appreciate it. That is gonna be it for today. Please join us on Friday when we travel to the other side for the Western Conference where we'll talk through some of the biggest questions facing those teams. If you're new here, hit that follow button wherever you're listening so you can stay up to date with us. And of course, come find us on YouTube. Our faces are really pretty. Leave comments wherever you're listening. We read them and if you'd be so kind, please give us a rating. It really helps new people find the show and I can shriek in their ears about how I almost got the right answer, but I didn't. So don't forget, as always, there's more to read and watch over our partner at the Yahoo. Sports Hub. Check it out at sports.yahoo.com women-sports on behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening and we will see you next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Keda with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Perel. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Brenna Haupt is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is my managing editor of women's basketball. At the Athletic, Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is our director of audio operations. Preparation is everything, on the court and off, and a strong financial future starts with a solid plan. MassMutual provides tools to help women plan for stronger financial futures, empowering them to navigate life's challenges with confidence and to achieve their dreams. Whether that's learning the basics, managing debts, understanding the value of insurance, or building wealth, they're in your corner. The right team can help you get ready and stay ready. That's why MassMutual is committed to helping women confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stay ready to learn more.