Can Women’s Basketball Apply a Winning Formula From Other Sports?

Summary

No Offseason: The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show

Episode: Can Women’s Basketball Apply a Winning Formula From Other Sports?
Air Date: January 27, 2026
Hosted by: Zena Keita, Chantel Jennings, Sabreena Merchant

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Episode Overview

This episode explores whether the blueprint behind Indiana University’s stunning and rapid ascent to a college football championship could translate to women’s college basketball. Zena, Chantel, and Sabreena first break down the latest action and trends in women’s hoops, then dive deep into what it would actually take—financially, culturally, and structurally—for another sport to “copy and paste” a success formula like Indiana football’s, and if any women’s basketball programs are close to pulling it off. The hosts also address a sensitive topic around current events in Minnesota before fielding a listener mailbag question about women’s college basketball coaching stability.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Weekend Recap and the Sabrina Scale

(Starts ~01:53)

• The episode opens with analysis of a major SEC women’s basketball showdown:
  • South Carolina (SC) vs. Vanderbilt: SC dominated, winning 103–74, demonstrating key adjustments by coach Dawn Staley, who opted for speed and flexibility over her typical double-big lineup.
  • Sabrina on SC’s Tactics:
    • “It was just so interesting to me that Dawn Staley was like, you know what? Vanderbilt’s a team that gets a lot of motion in the half court... We want to be a little bit more flexible defensively, a little more switchable, more speed…It worked, you know, magnificently.” (04:06)
  • Vanderbilt’s youth and relative lack of depth, spotlighted by Mikayla Blakes’ slow start, contributed to their struggles against SC’s defensive aggression.
• Iowa’s Streak and Depth:
  • Iowa overcame an early injury and easily beat Ohio State, driven by the depth and improvement in players like Hannah Stuelke and Ava Haydn.
  • “Anytime you can look that comfortable against the Ohio State pressure, I think is a win.” – Sabreena (10:15)
  • “Addie Deal... had her best game of the season. 20 points, just really crafty getting into the lane... super comfortable with the ball in her hands.” – Sabreena (08:54)
  • The panel praises the improved frontcourt and Iowa’s resilience after losing Taylor McCabe to injury.
• Louisville, Georgia, and Michigan’s strong/interesting performances are noted as well, including Michigan’s concerning third quarter against USC.

2. Current Events: Minneapolis Community Update

(Begins ~15:48-20:43)

• The hosts pause for a brief, serious reflection on the police killing of ICU nurse Alex Jeffrey Preddy during a federal immigration action in Minneapolis, and broader community trauma.
  • Chantel, a Minneapolis local, underscores how tightly knit and impacted the area is by recent events.
  • “I think Minneapolis is really hurting right now, and it’s not surprising to see [Lynx coach] Cheryl [Reeve] speak out... I feel really proud to be from here and live here.” – Chantel (20:16)
• Noted: Several athletes have publicly mourned and protested the recent events.

3. Main Segment: Can “The Indiana Blueprint” Work in Women’s Basketball?

(Starts ~22:04)

What Was Indiana’s Football Blueprint?

• Hire a proven but overlooked winner with charisma and vision (Kurt Signetti: “google me, I win”)
• Massive financial investment: doubled football budget, paid for top transfers, injected $90M in facilities
• Aggressive and successful use of the transfer portal, building both depth and culture quickly
  • “He had 13 transfers follow him from James Madison. And then they did a transfer blitz themselves, bringing in talented quarterback Fernando Mendoza...” – Zena (23:48)

Could This Apply to Women’s Basketball?

• Pillar 1: The Right Coach
  • Echoing Signetti’s impact, the biggest accelerant is often a transformative head coach—even if not from a “blue blood” background.
  • Sabreena draws parallels to Mark Campbell (Union University), Meg Barber (NYU), and Kim Caldwell (Tennessee via D-II), suggesting elite lower-division coaches could be breakout hires for D-I programs.
  • “I think the most important thing is the coaching hire... You don’t call your shot like that... unless you have a track record to back it up.” – Sabreena (25:52)
• Pillar 2: Financial Investment
  • Women’s basketball requires much less money than football to generate impact:
    • “Good rosters in women’s college basketball...what budget are we talking here?” – Sabreena
    • “Elite: 3–5 [million].” – Chantel (34:37)
  • Support from benevolent donors (examples: Mark Cuban—Indiana; Alexis Ohanian—Virginia) is crucial, but rare.
• Pillar 3: Recruitment and Transfers
  • The importance of a star recruit may actually be higher in basketball than football due to roster size:
    • “The one really good player matters a lot more in basketball than it does in football...all of them kind of still go to the same places.” – Sabreena (40:54)
  • Transfer portal moves can accelerate improvement but aren’t always enough to overcome established power programs without top freshmen or the right culture.
• Pillar 4: Facilities and Institutional Support
  • Programs like Vanderbilt and Oregon are investing in facilities but the gap is LESS about money and more about recruiting and culture.
• Culture and Longevity
  • Establishing a winning culture, not just “renting” short-term success, is essential.

Notable Quotes

• Zena, on the coaching/donor dynamic: “You have to have the personality to have it be built, but you also have to have the personality to demand the resources necessary to support you.” (28:51)
• Chantel, on the challenge of copying the blueprint: “Money makes college sports work, especially at this point...The combination of everything [is key].” (29:37)
• Sabreena, on the scarcity of transformative coaches: “Are there people at the D2 level who have been undervalued...? I don’t think people like that exist everywhere.” (25:52)
• Sabreena, on critical mass for change: "Dawn Staley is the last, I think, new coach to win a championship, and that was in 2017… It is hard to break in." (34:08)

Which Pillar Is Hardest to Replicate?

• The hosts debate whether money, elite coaching talent, or elite player recruiting is most rare and precious for programs wanting to pull an “Indiana.”
• Consensus leans toward the coach and/or a benevolent (if not simply opportunistic) big donor:
  • “Benevolent women’s sports fan billionaires aren’t just a dime a dozen.” – Chantel (41:42)
  • “I just feel like stumbling upon billionaires who might want to invest in women's basketball...might be easier than finding a Gino Auriemma or a Dawn Staley.” – Zena (41:35)
• Chicken-or-egg dynamic: Do you get the coach first to attract the money, or the money to get the coach?
  • “I think you need the coach because you need the piece...But then to like take a step back from that, also need good money to hire the great coach.” – Chantel (45:01)

Are Any Programs Close?

• Vanderbilt is building facilities and landing top recruits, with a former UConn assistant as coach.
• Oregon is highlighted as a Big Ten program with donor muscle, Nike ties, and recent basketball momentum.
• Virginia, via Alexis Ohanian’s investment, is considered, but faces ACC revenue limitations.
• The conversation circles around the realities: even with all pieces in place, the “closed club” of champions remains hard to crack.

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4. Listener Mailbag: “Does the Hot Seat Exist in Women’s College Basketball?”

(~50:21 onwards)

• Listener Andy asks if Iowa State’s Bill Fennelly is on the hot seat after a couple of underperforming seasons.
• Short answer: No—coaching changes are far less frequent/harsh in women’s hoops; the “hot seat” culture hasn’t fully arrived.
  • “I don’t believe the hot seat yet exists in women’s back [sic] basketball...There’s more understanding like ‘oh, injuries happened’... I just don’t think the hot seat exists.” – Chantel (52:22)
• As money, attention, and outside investment increase in women’s sports, the panel predicts more aggressive coaching changes (“hot seats”) may become a reality.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the South Carolina–Vanderbilt matchup:
  • “It was just so interesting…to be that flexible, to be that creative [from Dawn Staley]. It worked, you know, magnificently.” – Sabreena (04:06)
• IU Football’s Success:
  • “Google me, I win.” – Kurt Signetti, quoted approvingly by hosts (23:48)
• On women’s basketball investment:
  • “Good rosters in women’s college basketball...elite: 3–5 [million].” – Chantel (34:37)
• The rarity of “benevolent billionaires”:
  • “Benevolent women’s sports fan billionaires aren’t just a dime a dozen.” – Chantel (41:42)
• Cultural and financial barriers in women’s CBB:
  • “I think you need the benevolent billionaire first because you gotta hire the coach, because the coach is what recruits and keeps people.” – Sabreena (46:05)
• Chantel, summarizing the challenge:
  • “Still growth to be had in the women’s college basketball space...” (55:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:53] – Show proper begins: Weekend women’s basketball analysis & Sabrina Scale
• [15:48] – Minneapolis current events and sports community response
• [22:04] – “Can the IU Football Blueprint Work in Women’s Basketball?” (Main segment)
  • [25:52] – Transformative coaching hires
  • [34:37] – Investment and roster-building costs
  • [39:35] – Recruiting hurdles & importance of elite talent
  • [45:01] – “Chicken or egg” – Money or coach first?
• [50:21] – Listener Mailbag: Bill Fennelly and the non-existence of the “hot seat”
• [55:46] – Final thoughts on growth in women’s college basketball

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Conclusion

The episode presents a nuanced, highly informed discussion about what it would really take for a women’s basketball program to quickly engineer a rise to national-championship-level success, as Indiana did in football. Ultimately, the answer isn’t as simple as “just get the money” or “just get the coach”—a rare alignment of talent, resources, bold vision, and timing is required, and such moments are extraordinary. The hosts’ back-and-forth is witty, knowledgeable, and brings both optimism and realism to the future of women’s basketball.

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For full context, this summary skips all ads, podcast intros/outros, and sponsor reads.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello everyone and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Kaeda.

[C]

I'm Shantelle Jennings.

[D]

And I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[B]

And today on the show, if you follow college sports, you know the Indiana Hoosiers captured their first ever college football championship this year. National championship, going undefeated. Their rapid success was built through a unique combination of strong coaching, strategic use of the transfer portal and significant, significant financial investment. So it got us thinking, where do we see that same blueprint in women's college hoops? We're going to look at some of the teams that are trending in that direction. But first, coming off an action packed weekend full of matchups, we're going to get into the Sabrina scale. It's back, guys. I know I haven't said that in a long time, but it's been back. We were talking college hoops. SEC going to start with that one where another one bites the dust. Only one undefeated team left in the country. And of course Vandy finally took an L. Okay. South Carolina dominated Vanderbilt on Sunday, 1:03 to 74. The Gamecocks remain at number two, while Vanderbilt slides from number four to number five on the Sabrina scale. Sabrina, what were you seeing in both teams as that game played out? And did this matchup change your view of either team at all?

[D]

I love the idea of South Carolina just being this gatekeeper of college basketball supremacy in the women's hoops world. And it's like Vanderbilt, you think you're cute. Come to see L. A. Let's see how this goes, you know?

[B]

Right. Especially after a loss to Oklahoma. They were.

[D]

They were ripped up. South Carolina is not the same.

[C]

You don't want to. I mean, there's a lot of teams you don't want to face after a loss, but like South Carolina at home, uphill battle.

[D]

So I think I wrote about this in the power rankings this week, but I think of South Carolina, like, they've obviously been very successful in the Don Staley era, but they've also been a little rig stylistically, and that's not necessarily a bad thing when you have the talent to fit that mold. Right. Like, they've always had very good frontcourt players. The WNBA is just littered with South Carolina products, you know, coming Asia Wilson, Aaliyah Boston, Camilo Cardoso. There's a reason they play that way. It's because they have the personnel to support it. And so it was just so interesting to me that Don Staley was like, you know what? Vanderbilt's a team that gets a lot of motion in the half court. They get up a lot of threes. We want to be a little bit more flexible defensively, a little more switchable, more speed. Didn't really start a center. You know, Joyce Edwards, I wouldn't call her a center. They take out Medina Okot and put in Agath Makir into the starting lineup. And they were just fast, like, just blistering fast to start this game. And you can tell Vanderbilt was not prepared for it. I mean, why would you be to think that Carolina was. South Carolina was going to change its starting lineup when they've literally started two bigs together since 2019? I think, incidentally, the last year, they also lost two games in a row. And I just thought it was really interesting from Don Staley to be that flexible, to be that creative. It worked, you know, magnificently. I would expect okad to be back in the starting line when they play Texas A and M later this week, but to have just that trump card, you know, like, we're going to try something a little bit different. We're capable of doing this. Not Something I would have expected from South Carolina and just gives me a little bit more faith, honestly, in that team going forward. Because like I said, they've always had a blueprint of how things are done the Gamecock way. And for them to expand beyond that gives me a little bit more hope of how they can adapt to potential future opponents.

[B]

Chantel the first offensive play where T' ni Latson, you saw Aubrey Galvin turn the corner, thinks she was gonna get a nice little crossover. And T' ni Latin was like, no, no, goes the other way, gets an N1. Later on, you see Agat McKear do the same thing in open space. And it was just like, oh, this is gonna, this is gonna be a long night. This is gonna be a very long night. When you think about Vandy, they had a really good run up to this game. Like, what exactly about their game one? Mikayla Blake's not being able to score really until the second half of the game. What did you see in Vanity that was pretty much kind of choking their success against South Carolina?

[C]

I mean, South Carolina, like, that's the thing. It's like, I think Vanderbilt is still a very good team. I think they have a lot of pieces to do well in the tournament, go further than they've ever gone. The problem was is that like Sabrina said, I think Dawn Staley made the right call when she looked at it and said, we're going to give up a few inches of height here in the paint and what we're going to get is a quicker, more reactive defensive team. And I think getting into the passing lanes was really, really smart. Getting into Aubrey Galvin, a freshman point guard, she averaged, she only had one assist the entire first half. This is a team that I think they averaged 12 turnovers a game. They had eight. Like, first quarter, first half, like, it's just the amount that they got into them, into their bodies, into the passing lanes, sped them up. You know, knowing that they have a freshman point guard, like, I think you can kind of like gamble there a little bit because this isn't a fifth year guard who's going to know how to handle that. And I don't think that Vanderbilt had seen a team play defense like that this season or play that quick. And so I think it was, it was a smart call. It was the right change up at the right time. And I think then you look at South Carolina and how they turned their defense into their offense. And I think when we've seen the South Carolina team at their best, they are firing on all cylinders, but they're using that defensive energy and efficiency to turn in fast break points. And I think that's what we saw against Vanderbilt.

[B]

Okay, well, I'm very curious as to what's going to happen with Vandy in their bounce backs. I mean, we haven't seen them take a long this season just yet. So, Chantelle, who's coming up next for Bandy and what should they be able to capitalize on in that next matchup?

[C]

Yeah, they've got Ole Miss and so I think it's, you know, just coming back into themselves. I think Mikayla Blakes took a little while to warm up and again, I think credit to South Carolina here on that one, but, like, she was a big reason why Vanderbilt was able to cut it to seven in the third quarter. And you look at this team, which is younger and has newer faces and like a new composition, we're far enough in the season that that shouldn't much. But I think when you think about the way that they bounce back after that first quarter, it tells you a bit about the character of that team. And I think looking forward as they play against Ole Miss, I think we'd expect the same. I think Shea Ralph is going to have this team ready to go and I think Michaela Blake's like, is going to have that. Like, okay, I took that personally. Like, we sort of saw how she clawed back, but then it was like South Carolina's depth was just on display in a way that Vanderbilt didn't have. Where I think it was like they went on a 27 to 8 run after Vanderbilt cut it to 7. You know, know, Vanderbilt doesn't at that point have the depth to go one for one with them.

[B]

Okay, all right, well, let's keep it moving to another game that showcase a team's dominance and their depth as well. I would say Iowa made it to eight straight wins on Sunday. They rolled past Ohio State 91 to 70. Sabrina, I was at number seven. Okay. On your list. They went up two spots for number nine. What stood out to you in this game and how did it factor into your rankings?

[D]

You know, like you said, a lot of depth on this Iowa team. They suffer an injury to their starting guard Taylor McCabe within the first minute or so of the game. Just no problem. Bring in freshman Addie Deal. And she had her best game of the season. You know, 20 points, just really crafty getting into the lane, some off of cuts, like, super comfortable with the ball in her hands, which is not exactly the kind of thing you expect against an Ohio State team. Right. Like, talking about pressure defense. For her to feel that comfortable against a Buckeyes team that, like, makes everybody look a little bit on edge. You know, we saw it even against TCU with a veteran guard like Olivia Miles. I thought that was a very impressive sign for Iowa that, like, you know, one thing gets out of the rotation, and now all of a sudden you'd think, like, things would get a little bit disrupted. But no, they seemed very comfortable. And then also, like, this is the way Iowa wants to play is through their front court with Ava Haydn and Hannah Stahlke. And, you know, we saw their first real test of the season against Iowa State. Like, neither of them really were up to the challenge. But ever since then, Haydn has just been super consistent, not getting into foul trouble as easily. Stolke, I think, has taken a real leap forward, which is, how long has Hannah Stolke been in college? I can't believe how long we've been talking about.

[B]

We keep talking. Not only that, we keep saying, like, she's taking a leap forward every year. I feel like she's taking a leap, number one, just from jumping through the roof every year, like, adding inches to her vertical. But there's also just consistently getting better and more poised. It seems like her game just gets a little bit more refined each year that she's in college, which at this point we do need to check.

[D]

Right. Well, she's had, you know, double figures in 10 of her last 11 games, five in a row. Now double doubles in, like, three or four of those. So it's just the type of consistency you hope for from your veterans. Right. Like Hannah Stahlke. And I just like watching this Iowa team. Like, it doesn't look like the Iowa team that was very good two years ago because obviously their personnel is very different. It's never going to look like that Iowa team from two years ago. But anytime you can look that comfortable against the Ohio State, pressure, I think is a win. Even if it's, you know, at home in front of your crowd.

[B]

Agreed, agreed. They looked really, really good. And it's also, I'm not gonna lie, I gotta put some respect on Iowa, because when we first saw. I looked at their game against the Iowa State Cyclones, and you saw Ava Hayden not win that battle. I think the Bigs did not win that battle against Iowa earlier this in.

[D]

This.

[B]

In December. Right. 74, 69, I would say, took that game. And you're like, maybe I would. This might have been a fluke. Maybe we put a little Bit too much into it. And in these last few games, especially as they've opened up their conference play, nine and oh, you're like, oh, excuse us. We, we, we didn't know what you had in their game. Chantel, what's popped to you? I mean, maybe other than a particular point guard at the helm of everything, what's popped to you for Iowa?

[C]

No, I think both of you kind of hit it on the head. Like, I, I think what we've seen with Iowa is that they're best when they're playing through their front court. But right now, sort of the tandem play of Hannah Stolke and Eva Haydn is just really, really impressive. We saw Eva come on at the end of last season during the tournament when she was, you know, called upon and hadn't really played much during the season, but like her last three games, so State, Michigan State, Maryland and Ohio State. 20 and 6, 20 and 8, 18 and 8. Like she's, she's playing like a vet. She's playing like someone who's a fourth in conference play in tough situations against ranked teams. So I think like having the tandem play of those two, like their games are, are not as similar. She is, you know, Ava can hit the 15 footer really well. Like, I think just seeing them together is interesting. And then I was really interested after Taylor McKay went down. She's a three point specialist for them. Like obviously with Iowa's offensive set, like that shot and having sort of that kind of a shooter on the outside with who's so consistent is so important. How are they going to do and to have the benefit of what Iowa has become in the last few years and to be able to bring someone off the bench like Addie Deal, it really speaks to Iowa's depth, which is not something we've always talked about with this team. And so I think they're a team that I look at as like, really interesting moving forward, especially if Taylor McCabe is able to come back. It's Monday afternoon when we're recording. We don't know exactly what the injury was. We know she was going to get a MRI Sunday night. But like, if Addie Deal can sort of get more minutes right now, if Taylor's gonna take a little bit of time to come back and then she's able to come back and be 100% like that just gives them more weapons.

[B]

Moving into March, especially weapons that can create. We know chit chat, right? Can create. But the fact as Sabrina laid out Addie Deal, being able to create her own shot and being able to get into lanes and to space is always an added bonus for them. Okay, anything else stand out to you guys as you were watching the games over the weekend? I first wanna just and put some respect on Georgia taking down two big SEC competitors in Ole Miss and then Kentucky within the last week and man, they look good. They look good, Sabrina.

[D]

Yeah, they do. They look real good. You know I, I would say that they have maybe two good wins all season, but they have happened in the last week so it's a nice time to be looking at Georgia.

[B]

There you go. Give them some respect while we can. Anything pop out to you though Serena, outside of those two games you just broke down?

[D]

You know I, I'm just really impressed with Louisville all the time. Like super consistent, super steady. I'm eagerly waiting this Duke, Louisville game that's coming up on the schedule that's going to decide some sort of ACC supremacy. But yeah, just like again I didn't have high expectations for this team coming into the season. They don't really have that one star that pops out to you but everybody just does their job. Whether that's Mari Berry or Taj Roberts or Scott coming in off the bench. Like it's just, it's a very balanced roster. It's like an old school college sports throwback. But I just like watching them play. They're just very, very solid all the time.

[B]

I like that. What if Duke and Louisville end up being the top of the acc? Who. I mean they're technically, they're. They're doing their thing right now. So they are right now. So it just be. It'd be very interesting if they were the bids out of the ACC after the expectations we had for them earlier this season or even going into this season. Chantel, what about you close out with some of the games.

[C]

I think Michigan's third quarter against USC is standing out in my mind right now. They got outscored at home 3113 by USC and I think third quarters can be, they can be not all the time but they can be indicative of a team and coming out of halftime in what they didn't have an 18 point gap to necessarily give. And so that to me stands out and sort of seeing how this group responds. I think I've been really impressed with that group, specifically Kim Barton Sirico being able to hold on to now a sophomore class when we saw so many freshmen enter the portal last year. So her holding onto that group and being so impressed with them last year, being impressed with what they've done this year, one quarter is one quarter. It's not like the sky is falling in Ann Arbor. They still won the game. But if we're talking, if we're like nitpicking here, I think one quarter that we could look back and say like, oh, interesting. That to me was an interesting quarter of basketball from this weekend.

[B]

We know how we feel about USC and their defense. And so being able to keep a team like Michigan to 13 is like, all right, we won't say too much good for them on USC side. But as you mentioned, Michigan won the game. Okay, before we continue our conversation and get into our main conversation around IU football and how that connects to women's basketball, we do want to talk briefly about what's happening in Minnesota. Now, I understand this show is fun. This is an opportunity for a little bit of reprieve from the outside world. We're talking sports, we're arguing lineups, we're debating, you know, if a team is a little bit better, then they started at the top of the season. But right now we want to have a conversation that is about humanity. This is not about politics. And if you're a parent listening around children and you haven't had the chance to have this conversation with them, feel free to skip ahead a few minutes. We'll get back to basketball in a second. But for those that don't skip ahead, I do encourage you to stay around. This conversation is important to have. It impacts all, all of us as humans living in communities, caring about one another. And we don't want to ignore something that is impacting real lives. So let's open this conversation by stating what's happened on Saturday. 37 year old US citizen and ICU nurse Alex Jeffrey Preddy was fatally shot by US Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis during a federal immigration enforcement action. Officials said he had a handgun and was resisting disarmament. But videos pretty clearly show him with a phone in his hand while he was trying to help a woman who was pushed down by agents. This was the second killing of an unarmed protester in Minneapolis. Renee good, mother of three, was shot and killed on January 7th. Now we do not get into current events in our show, but we've known several athletes, including Brianna Stewart during her moment of announcements during an arrival this weekend had an abolished ICE sign. We've seen Tyrese Halliburton of the Indiana Pacers call out what his thoughts were of the event. We're not here to get into the nitty gritty of those statements, but clearly people are impacted by them. Shantel, this is your hometown. Can you give us a little bit of what's going on around you on the ground, what you're seeing?

[C]

You know, Minneapolis is like a small town. Like, it's the Twin Cities and the metro. And what's going on here is going on all over the state and in other cities, too. But like Minneapolis itself is like 400,000 people in South Minneapolis specifically, where both of these murders took place. And, you know, it's really small. It's like 50,000 people people. It's where I live. It's a really community feel like. It feels like a small town. You see the same people everywhere. And it's also, you know, I think Minnesota and south Minneapolis specifically. Even if you just look at the last year, one of the last games I covered before I went on leave was the day that state house Rep Melissa Hoffman and her husband were murdered at their home. And there was a Lynx game that night. And Cheryl Reeve, you know, was visibly shaken. And I think that speaks to how small this place feels sometimes. And Minnesotans love their sports teams despite not always having the most success. We are a steady, strong people who survive the winters. And so, you know, there have been some frozen eras in sports and people still support. And I think there's a real connection and community feel when it comes to sports. And so it wasn't surprising to see Cheryl speak out then. It wasn't surprising to see her at the rally on Friday during the work stoppage that happened across the city in the metro area. And this is also, you know, the same place where the Annunciation School shooting happened toward the end of last year at the beginning of the school year. And so I think it's just, it's just heavy right now. Like I said, I live here and we've had ice patrols near my house. I drive my three and a half year old school, and outside of every school and daycare, there are parents standing guard at the corners and at the doors in case agents show up. John Krasinski has a great column on the site. I recommend people read it. I think he really put into words what, you know, I'm, I'm trying to do right now as well. But I think Minneapolis is really hurting right now, and it's not surprising to see Stewie speaking up about this or hear what happened at the Timberwolves game because I really do feel like sports and the community are ingrained in this city. I feel really proud to be from here and live here.

[B]

Thank you for sharing that. And our thoughts continue to be with you with your Minnesotans as you endure what's going on right now. All right, coming up next, we'll turn our attention back to the court.

[A]

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[B]

Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy. And this episode is sponsored by ebay. The cars you'll find on ebay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on ebay that has been tucked away in an Arizona Barn for over 40 years. Only 55,000 miles and somehow in great running order, it even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly, a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks. With ebay's secure purchase, all the paperwork handled, There are thousands of cars on ebay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers. And now with a new way to buy them, ebay, things people love. As I mentioned at the top of the show, Indiana University captured its first ever college football national championship under head coach Kurt Signetti. Hired in 2024, Coach Signetti implemented very quick, a culture shifting, aggressive rebuilding strategy that paid off with a national title this year. And I think it's important that we talk about things that paid off because there was money involved here. And that is important when we're talking about the success of iu. If you look at the IU football blueprint for a national championship in today's age, you got to kind of think about four pillars. Okay? The first pillar had to do with that. Hire Kurt Signetti coming in from James Madison, he had this swagger to him, which is always, like, really important. You hire someone that comes in and says, google me. Like, that's the energy that Signetti was on.

[D]

To be clear, he said, google me, I win.

[B]

There you go. Thank you so much. Thank you. Google me, I win. So you're hiring someone that's not just a coach. He's coming in with a swagger. He's coming in with this, like, CEO mindset of how to take over a program and change it overall. Then there's the financial aspect, the financial pillar. You're talking about Indiana not treating their football program as like a secondary sport and starting to spend like other programs were on a national level. They doubled their budget for football from about 32 million to 61.6 million in this past year, and it paid off their roster. They spent about $21 million on their roster. From an nil perspective, it paid off. And then you add the aspect of the right personnel. You hire Coach Signetti, you pay him, well, about just under $12 million a year. Good for you. You get the money, right? There's a big injection of money from boosters, from the Hoosiers Collective and other donors like Mark Cuban. And then there's also the factor that Coach Signetti has. Teammates come with him. He had 13 transfers follow him from James Madison. And then they did a transfer blitz themselves, bringing in talented quarterback Fernando Mendoza over from Cal. They were able to get Pat Coogan from Notre Dame to lead their O line. They had Carter Smith out on their offensive tackle line. I mean, these were great transfers that they were able to have build a team that was able to find success. So is there a way for women's college basketball to do the same? We pondered on that question, and we want to have that conversation here with you. So, Sabrina, I'm going to open it up for you. Just thinking about the pillars I just laid out. When you think about women's college basketball, maybe it doesn't have to happen on that same level, but what could women's basketball be looking at in terms of that IU football blueprint that they could copy?

[D]

I think the most important thing is the coaching hire. You know, you can talk about the money and the facilities, and we will talk about all those things, and obviously they play a part in this. But, I mean, you. You don't call your shot like that at an opening press conference when you're coming into the Big Ten of the losingest program in college football history. And I want to I want to restate that. The losingest program in college football history that has just gone through a two year stretch where they made the playoff and then they went undefeated and won the national championship. When you say I win, Google me. Like it's because you have a track record to back it up. And I think just because he hadn't been a head coach at a major college program before and like this is not some young buck in Chris Ignetti. Like he's in his 60s, right? Like he's been around for a while. I just think it's so interesting that like this guy was sort of hiding in plain sight and has been a master recruiter, a master developer of talent. And it took a program like Indiana that literally had nothing to lose because they had already lost more than anyone else to hire him. And that's, I think, where we have to begin this conversation. Because like, I was sort of thinking, like, are there people at the D2 level who have been undervalued? People who like win a lot at lower levels of college basketball? Maybe not lower levels, but not D1 level of college basketball who could do it at the D1 level but just haven't been given the opportunity because their resume doesn't speak to it. And Signetti, he was at Alabama under Nick Saban. He coached at NC State when Philip Rivers was there, was a quarterbacks coach. He's been in a lot of really impressive stops. Just hasn't gotten the main head job at a power school up until Indiana. And I'm thinking of people like Mark Campbell, not that Mark Campbell, the Mark Campbell of Union University who's been like in the USA basketball system for a little while now. He has a career win percentage of like 86.6% at Union. So clearly somebody who knows how to win but just has never done it at the D1 level. You think about like Meg Barber, who we talked about last week at NYU, who has won her last 76 games at the D3 level. She's also been part of the USA Basketball program we mentioned. Got an invite to the Nike Hoop Summit if she wanted to make the jump to D1. There's clearly a proven track record of just knowing how to put teams together and recruit and optimize adverse conditions, which ideally you wouldn't have to do with all of the resources that have come IU's level. But I think to me it really starts there. This is a guy who just, again, he just wins everywhere and his team is so disciplined. I think what stands out to me about IU is that they had the second fewest, I think the second best penalty margin in the entire NCAA behind Army. That's the peak of discip. Right? So, like, if they're gonna make that few mistakes, like, that just really helps you win football games, It'll help you win basketball games. Right? Like, teams that just don't foul as much, don't turn the ball over as much. So, like, he has built this entire career, and it's. It's very satisfying. Just as, like, somebody who enjoys watching, like, good leadership and, like, miracle success stories that he was able to come to this pinnacle. But, like, I don't think people like that exist everywhere.

[C]

Right?

[D]

So if you find that diamond in the rough, that coach, then that sort of inspires a program to be like, hey, we got. We got the girl. Now let's put all of the resources we can behind them, because we think that they can build something special here.

[B]

And you not only have to have the personality to have it be built, but you also have to have the personality to demand the resources necessary to support you. Chantel. I like the way of starting with the coach. I actually first came to think of Kim Caldwell at Tennessee. Of course, she came for Marshall before, and then before that, she was in the D2 coaching bubble. And so I feel like there are certain coaches that are. Or there are certain programs around the country that are starting to say, okay, we can find teams that are. Look at the teams that are finding a lot of success at the D2, D3 level. Let's get them here. But then you have to have the ego to be able to say, okay, I deserve this amount of investment to be able to support the vision I have.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I think money makes college sports work, especially at this point. Right. And I think, like, I just wanted to say, you know, I. I covered college football for 7 years in Indian of football. Being good at football is still probably the most shocked I've been in my entire sports writing career. Like, I covered the Big Ten in football. The first year I covered the big 10 for ESPN, I was looking back because I was like, we used to have to do these things called Big Ten Links, where it was like, you would put it on the Big Ten ESPN Big Ten blog. And it was like, you know, here's what you need to know about, like, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State. And then it was like. And, you know, like, the other schools that aren't really good, like, if you just do it, like, a few times a week, whatever. And, like, I was like, Did I ever put up a post about it? Indiana, like they were 1 in 11 in 2011, the first year I covered college football for ESPN. Like, yes, just beyond shocking that they are good. I still don't quite understand it. But yeah, I think money is a huge part of it. And I think it's like the combination of everything. Right? For sure. And. And I do think the coaching, especially in basketball where there's fewer players, you need really good coaching to international championship in college basketball. I think it's true everywhere for sure. But like, I also think the fact that Kurt Signetti like brought with him, which brought sort of a level of built in familiarity and veteran ness to that team, I think that benefits him and the program as well. And I think when we were thinking about this, I didn't necessarily look to Division 2, but I was thinking to myself, let's say Wisconsin this year had decided to go with Aaron Roussel. If they had hired Aaron Roussel from Richmond. And that sort of feels like it could have had a similar, though maybe not national championship level ending, but in terms of elevating a program, like if he brings Rachel Ahlstrom and Maggie Dugan with him, if they keep Sarah Williams, if they go into the portal and they get, you know, two or three guards, if they get Olivia Miles, suddenly you have a starting five that's like, holy. Like this group can play. And that is not the case of late. And I think Wisconsin then becomes really interesting. I think the difference there is like, who is the Wisconsin donor or sort of like nil benefactor that's going to bankroll this team? I don't know, Like, I just don't know if, if that's there or if the appetite for women's basket, if there's, you know, I'm trying to rack my brain, but like, Madison's a great college town. I went to Michigan. It's my second favorite Big Ten town after Ann Arbor. Like, it's great. I think it would be a good place to recruit to. Winters are hard, but other than that, I mean, they're in the gym all winter. Who cares?

[D]

Winter is hard for a lot of these teams. It's not really exactly. I think.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. They're on the water, so it's like a little bit worse because of the wind chill. But I digress. But no, I think that's a place. And the Kohl center playing there. Great. I just think that would have been an interesting. That was the first team that came to mind in sort of our modern, specific, hyper specific moment of the Kurt Signetti era. What could have happened this season where we could have seen a huge turnaround. And I think something like that, where you're bringing in players, you're keeping Sarah Williams, who we've obviously seen have so much success at UConn, like, all of that together could have been really interesting. Yeah.

[D]

I mean, you think about the big donors. I mean, that's sort of what made me think about Virginia in this conversation, because, you know, you have Alexis Ohanian, Mr. Sherena Williams, Reddit founder guy, lots of things to his name, but has put a lot of money into uva and, like, they've had, you know, a modest amount of success in the ACC this year. But just like Zena, you mentioned the football budget rising to 61 million for Indiana. I don't think it costs that much to build a women's basketball program, especially even in this current environment. Right. Chantel, do you think a sixth of that could really get the job done? You're not even talking about major power players. $10 million is really what you're thinking to modernize a facility or update a basketball court, make sure that there's good restrooms everywhere and a good fan experience. I say that as somebody who went to a school where the football stadium only had Porta Potties my freshman year. That's why it always stands out to me.

[B]

But that's crazy. I don't think I knew that the.

[C]

Era of, like, our college experience in today's era of, like, covering college sports just feels so ancient. Like, Indiana football was bad. Duke had Porta Potts. Porta pots at its football field.

[B]

Had no idea.

[C]

Interesting.

[D]

So I think, like, you think about big donors, right? Like, Alexis Ohanian is somebody who has shown a clear passion for women's sports, you know, having been involved in Angel City and the NWSL and obviously married to one of the greatest athletes of all time, and now putting his money into uva. Like, that is a situation where you could make a real impact in terms of, like, what kind of players you could bring in because it doesn't cost as much to build a roster. You mentioned $20 million for Indiana. Like, good rosters in women's college basketball. Chantel, like, what. What budget are we talking about here?

[C]

Like, elite three to five.

[D]

Three to five. Right. So I think the bang for your buck is a lot different in women's basketball. And also, like, you don't need to bring in 13 transfers from JM rear. Right. Like, it's a. It's a basketball team. You only need six to seven good players. And ideally you have a couple that are already on your roster. I think it's a quicker process and I say it quicker, as if Indiana needed very long at all. This happened in two years, 24 months. It's like a more modest process, I think, in women's college basketball because you only have to build a team of five that's on the court and you could theoretically get this done with a lot less money than was invested in Indiana. So. So I just think it's really interesting because women's college basketball, I mentioned the word gatekeeper with South Carolina earlier. Dawn Staley is the last, I think, new coach to win a championship, and that was in 2017. It is hard to break in. Right. And yet we're in a situation in this nil world with the transfer portal where it shouldn't be that hard. Right. It should theoretically be possible for a team to at least have one or two good years. And yet that we're still seeing the same players, the same Kim Mulkey's and Tara Vinivers and Gene Oriemas of the world, like, win over and over again alongside Don. So, like, on the one hand, I think it should be easier because of like, the financial, like, investment shouldn't be as big as it is in football. And yet we're still like, who are the last three champions in college basketball?

[C]

Right. I mean, I think what's working against Virginia here is that they're from the acc. And that's not talking about the ACC as a women's basketball conference. That's talking about the ACC as a football conference. Like college football money is where a lot of the rev share money is coming from. And when I've spoken with coaches across the country, the programs that are getting the most of the rev share are in the Big Ten and the sec. And so inherently my mind goes to schools that are in the Big Ten and the sec. I think you can bankroll it with outside folks. And I think that's probably what, you know, a lot of programs who need to spend even more on college football are doing. They're just trying to get outside money for other sports. I'm going to bring up a school name and I'm just going to start by saying I am not comparing this team to Indiana football because they are not it. However, when we're thinking about places that there's probably both institutional support for women's basketball and outside support financially and a hunger for, like, let's do this, like, Oregon really comes to Mind because there's enough of a recent memory with what could have happened in 2020 with Sabrina Senior and Satu and Ruthie Hebird and like what could have been. And I think there's enough of that there that, that, like Sabrina said, you don't need a ton, a ton of money, but I think obviously with Nike, it's there. So you could have it if you want it. And if you get the right people in the right rooms, Oregon and in the Big Ten feels like a place that if we're, you know, sort of reframing this conversation with like a school that hasn't won a national title in a first time or a coach who hasn't won a national title before, like that feels like another spot where everything that's happening there, everything that has happened there, the ease of, you know, getting recruits there, the Nike connection, like Eugene in the summer is beautiful. Eugene in the winter again, there's a lot of places that are rough in the winter, but like, great arena to play in. Yeah, I think that could be one. Not Indiana football. Bad. I just want to clarify that.

[B]

No, that's perfectly fair. I'm hearing you all lay out all of these different factors that IU definitely had. Right? Of course, they had the, the, the financial investment, they had the right coach, they had the right people coming in alongside that coach to establish, I like, you know, what you're talking about, a veteranship, but really establish a culture, right? They were able to establish a culture of excellence that was able to bring them to that next level. And then on top of the financial investment to not only build out their roster to pay their coach, they had this $90 million injection to upgrade their facilities and ensure that they had like NFL caliber turf and all these materials that would help their players excel. Which one is the hardest to come by? If you're a women's basketball team, is it going to be that big time donor, that outside source of money, is it trying to find the right coach that will come in and establish a culture that is going to propel your team to national championship level, or is it trying to land the right transfers? From what you all just laid out, particularly the reason why I'm asking this question is like that Dawn Staley fact is kind of like sitting in my mind right now, like, that's the last coach to break into this space. I'm wondering, even if you have all the money in the world, even if you get the right transfers, like being able to find that kind of once in a lifetime type of coach, in this type of environment of women's basketball, feels like that might be the biggest challenge. But I'm very curious to hear what you guys think.

[D]

I think the talent is really hard, too. Like, maybe because the roster is smaller, it seems like it'd be an easier ask because you only need to get, you know, five or six good players. But the one really good player matters a lot more in basketball than it does in football. Right. Like, if you are, you know, a team, like, built in the image that Chantelle was describing, like the Wisconsin roster, like, you still have to potentially go up against UConn in the tournament and Sarah Strong still exists. Right. So I almost wonder if, like, the only way this works in basketball is you just have to get a number one recruit at some point like that. That may not have been the formula for football, but I look at the teams that I think could be on the rise as programs, and I think about a Vanderbilt where they have the investment part of it down and they have this massive plan to reshape their facilities, and it's going to be the best basketball facility in college basketball, from what I understand. When they're all done and they've gotten Shea Ralph, who has the UConn pedigree, as their coach. But the program only works because they brought in Mikayla Blakes as one of the top recruits in the 2004 class. And that's something Indiana didn't do. Right. Like, they got all their people from the portal, essentially their best players. But I do wonder in basketball if you kind of just need the one home run player. I'm mixing metaphors here. I apologize. The one no brainer, star player, and that might be the issue in women's college basketball is that all of them kind of still go to the same places.

[B]

Right?

[D]

Like, three of the last four number one recruits have gone to usc. Jersey Robinson just picked South Carolina. Sarah Strong obviously went to UConn. Like, most of the best players are still going to the same place, and maybe that's what's keeping the titles in all of those places is because they just keep getting the very best players, and that matters more in basketball than it does in a big team sport like football.

[C]

I feel like that's a hard. As you were saying all of that, Sabrina. I was like, yes. And they just lost by 30 to South Carolina this weekend.

[D]

They're on the upswing. You know, they're not there yet.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Indiana, too. It happens. Happens.

[C]

So I think that's so hard to think about.

[B]

Like, yeah, I just feel like stumbling upon billionaires who might want to invest in women's basketball.

[C]

Benevolent women's sports fan billionaires aren't just a dime a dozen.

[B]

Listen, but here's the thing, though. Here's the thing, though. We have had enough conversations on this very podcast about people realizing women's basketball is lucrative. Whether you are benevolent or not, you. If you are financially savvy, you are like, hey, this is a good investment. And we're seeing by the amount of people that are investing in these leagues outside of the WNBA and now people that are, you know, finding a way to get involved with even Nil clicks. I mean, we. Let's not forget that I was shocked when the University of Miami was getting caught up in scandals around Nil. I was like, is this a good sign for women's basketball that there's people secretly trying to inject money into schools, into. Into, you know, into talent? I mean, I say that lightly, but I do feel like it might be easy. I feel like it might be easier to stumble upon a benevolent billionaire that's willing to donate dollars to, you know, their alma mater or a particular women's basketball program than it is to find a Ginoriemma, a Dawn Staley, or there it is, you know, as you mentioned, Sabrina, than it is to find. Find a Sarah Strong or Juju Watkins. You know, I just. This is. It's interesting. It's interesting.

[C]

The business aspect at the college level, though, when we're talking about these people giving money, there's not the kind of return that you're seeing for the people that are investing in the wnba, right? Like, where they're eventually going to be able to sell their shares and whatever, own a team and get a portion of what the team is making. Like, you know, Mark Cuban, however much money he gave, like, he. He, you know, was able to buy some happiness for himself in the form of celebrations of his alma mater. Like, that was. That's a part of the deal. Like, I don't think he's getting a, like, Shark tank level return here in the bottom line. And so I think that's a little bit of the difference. And so I do think you need to find someone who, you know, I was literally like, who are, you know, Olivia Munn is an Oklahoma grad. Does she like women's basketball? I don't know.

[B]

That's real.

[C]

Who that I could imagine being. I mean, I was literally googling.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know how much money the Judds are making, but they are big Kentucky fans, right?

[C]

Okay.

[B]

You know, so it's just like now, now we have this whole exercise of go through every celebrity and major money that you can, like money maker you can make and say, where did you graduate from college? Okay, let's. Let's keep it moving forward at least and think about like, we've named, we've named several schools today that we feel like could tap into the IU football blueprint. That's what we're like trademarking it as. But if you were building a women's basketball program from scratch. From scratch. Okay, what part of the blueprint would you tap into first? Would you go get a big time donor? Go get the money all set up? Would you try and find that number one recruit? Would you try and find that. That legendary coach? Or it doesn't even have to be legendary, the coach that will be legendary upon winning hopefully a undefeated national championship. But what part would you go after first? Shantel, I'm gonna start with you.

[C]

I think you need the coach because you need the piece. Especially in this age of players being able to leave as quickly as they are to sustain. Like we were saying, you know, Kurt having a level of expectation and keeping players, but like, you need that coach, but then to like take a step back from that also need good money to hire the great coach. Right. And so then I wonder, is this actually a trick question that I'm tricking myself right now? You didn't ask it. Yeah, it's chicken and the egg.

[B]

Yeah, it's a chicken and the egg. Absolutely.

[C]

And so I do wonder if it is because what we have seen at least recently with women's college basketball, you know, the amount of money that goes around during transfer portal season, the difficulty with top players staying in a place that isn't established. You know, we've seen South Carolina and UConn be able on to players, but that's because you know of who the coaches are, what they've done over the last decade and what the program has become. And so I almost wonder if it is a chicken and the egg, but probably you need the money to make it all work. Right?

[B]

I feel like you. I think you're right.

[D]

I think you need the benevolent billionaire first because you got to hire the coach because the coach is what recruits and keeps people. Like I'm looking at Indiana, they were 3 and 9 in 2023. And then they hire Kurt and they lose one regular season game, right? So that's what is Kurt's.

[C]

What's he making?

[B]

11.6 million.

[D]

He just signed a new extension yeah, any.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. He just signed an extension.

[D]

It's a good number. Yeah, it's not like NFL commentator number, you know, but it's a good number.

[B]

Facts. That's facts. So it looks like Indiana University's national championship title secured a $2 million bonus for head coach Kurt Signetti, who earned a total of $14.675 million in total this season.

[C]

So, guys, we're all in the wrong field.

[B]

That might be fair.

[C]

That might be fair.

[D]

We don't win. Shannon.

[B]

This is, this is interesting, though, I, I. Because I think about, too, about the benevolent billionaire that might be like, oh, you've got this coach. I'm now more willing to give you more money because I believe in the vision of this coach. This is a fascinating conversation. And one thing is for certain, certain athletic directors around the country are having this exact conundrum across their desk every single day as they look at their, you know, their bosses, their. The boards that they have to speak to the donors that are giving money year in, year out and wanting to see their programs across football, basketball, all sports at their alma maters perform well. These are the types of questions that they're having to ask. Who are we getting in? Is it the coach first? Is it the talent first? Is it more money? What do we have to do? So I'm very curious, for those of you that have been listening to us, just kind of ponder about this. What are your thoughts? What needs to come first? And are there women's college programs that you're seeing already follow this blueprint? Give us your opinion. We definitely need to.

[C]

And who's the benevolent billionaire that we have not thought of.

[B]

We have not thought of. Exactly. Exactly.

[C]

Do we think Olivia Munn is a billionaire? I don't know.

[D]

I don't think she is yet.

[B]

I don't quite.

[C]

So she might get there yet. I'm a.

[B]

Just for her if she, if she so wants that.

[D]

Magnanimous. That's the word I'd go with.

[C]

Magnanimous. Millionaire. Yes. In either class. Again, like we said, you need 3 to 5 million a year for, like, an elite women's basketball roster.

[B]

So, okay, the math is there. The blueprint is laid out. Shout out to Indiana University. Congratulations on their national championship, but we'll see. Are any women's college programs literally copying and pasting? Don't go anywhere. On the other side of this break, we've got a listener question.

[A]

Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math at T Mobile. T Mobile.com switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member, FDIC.

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[B]

Okay, so before we get out of here, we just gotta give a shout out to our listeners because you guys actually do what I tell you to do. You send in questions, you give us our comments, you write reviews. We appreciate you so much. And so we wanna make sure that you know that we see you, we hear you. And now we're going to read a question from you. So even though we don't have a mailbag episode that's coming up, please continue to send in questions like the one we got from Andy, who emailed us and asked, is Bill Fennelly on the hot seat at Iowa State? I know injuries factor into their struggles, but it seems this is at least the second year where pre and early season hype has not even come close to being realized. Andy didn't care about those Audi crooks games, okay? Andy was like, listen, things are looking a little stressful over here at Iowa State. Is Bill Fenally going to lose his Job thoughts on that? Sabrina, I'll start with you.

[D]

Yeah, I think the short answer is no. Bill Finley has won 800 games, I think 800 plus games in his college coaching career. That puts him in the top 25 of coaches all time. When you've gotten to that point in your career, I think you get to decide when and if you want to stop at a job. And you look at his history at Iowa State, it's pretty decorated. He's got a few Big 12 tournament titles, Big 12 regular season title. Some great players have come out of that program. Ashley Jones comes to mind immediately before Audi Crooks now. Yeah, I just. Bridget Carlton at that longevity. Bridget Carlton, right. It's, it's your decision I think at that point like unfortunately as disappointing as the season might have been for Iowa State fans, you know, recently going through, I want to say a five game losing streak in Big 12 play. At least Ariana Jackson's back even if Addie Brown isn't yet. I don't think this gets resolved by Bill finally losing his job.

[C]

I think I disagree with the question just how it was written. Like I don't believe the hot seat yet exists in women's back basketball. Women's college basketball I should say there are programs we can think of where it's like how you know, sustained years and when we think of specifically like the Big Ten and the SEC where there are, there is more money because of Rev Share and the, the football contracts and the TV and their athletic departments. When you look at you know the athletic departments that make the most money, Those are Big Ten and SEC schools, Big 12 less so Bill I think has a lot of goodwill that there. But also I just, I don't think we're at the point in women's college basketball that a hot seat actually exists. I think even last year it was like, I think in men's college basketball they do like the hot seat tracker. Every year there it's like you know, these coaches are on the hot seat and like I wrote something like coaches to watch that have like interesting pressure on them because I was like I and you know, I don't think any of those people were going to lose their jobs because I don't think the hot seat exists. It was like people that had interesting situations with their rosters or you know, changeover year over year or like an interesting question mark. And I, I still feel like when it comes to college hoops on the women's side there's more understanding like oh, injuries happened, you know, you can have someone who misses two weeks and they happen to miss four of your, you know, top 25 games. Like, that is a reality that can happen. And so I think there's. There's a lot of explanation and understanding, and I just don't think the hot seat exists.

[D]

I think we're getting to a point, though, because, like, the interest in women's college basketball is at a. You know, I look at a lot of these longer tenured coaches in women's hoops, and it's like, this would never happen on the men's side, where you top out of the Sweet 16 every season for 10 years. Like, you would never last 10 years on men's college hoops with that kind of resume. And I. I do wonder if, like, if more people are putting money into college basketball and want to see a return, like, not necessarily financial return, but a happiness return. And it's like, hey, why haven't we gotten, you know, past the second wicket of the tournament? Maybe that's what spurs the existence of a hot seat. But I'm with you, Chantel. I don't. I don't think we have one now. And if we did, Phil Fenoly would not be on it.

[B]

I think there's a similarity of, like, the evolution that we're even seeing in the wnba. The hot seat wasn't really a thing as much in the WNBA until there was more visibility, there was more money involved, there was. There was more pressure.

[D]

It's arguably a little too hot.

[B]

Yeah, right. It's a little bit too hot. You said to it. Exactly, exactly. So I think once. And also we just talked about the goodwill is a really great point of, like, how you put it with Bill Fenley. It's not just goodwill. I think a lot of these college programs realize how hard it is to find really good women's college basketball coaches. And so they're kind of a little bit more lenient, maybe, in that regard. But, yeah, I think it's developing. It's just not there yet. That's a good point.

[C]

But I think you look at, like, the hires that were made last year, and you can think of some of, like, the larger schools hiring or the power conference hiring Wisconsin with Robin Houston with Matt Mitchell. Like, these were coaches that didn't have buyouts. We're not even seeing universities that want to play buyouts right now. And so I think that's still an indicator that will probably precede the hot seat conversation in women's college basketball when we start seeing programs that are willing to poach and then take on the buyout of a coach regularly. Then I think we can say like, okay, the hot seat era is here.

[B]

Ooh, okay. Still growth to be had in the women's college basketball space. And I'm happy that we have IU to help us chart the course. But also, being is too tall.

[D]

If IU can win a football championship, literally no task.

[B]

24 months at that. In 24 months. All right, y', all, that is all we've got for you today. Join us back here on Friday. We'll have more in the world of women's hoops, as always. And don't forget, you can help us out by filling out a quick survey about you and your podcast [e-mail] survey 26 as a thank you, three listeners will have a chance to win a hundred dollars in Amazon vouchers. We value that feedback and you know, we implement it. We do put it in. So make sure you go fill out that survey. You'll find the link in the episode description if you haven't already, which I am surprised, slightly offended. But you know I won't take it personally. Go follow our show, folks. You need to follow. You need to subscribe. Let your friends know. Let your mom know we're a great Hank, okay? And go head on over to our partner. Yahoo Sports Hub has more content for you to check out at sports.yahoo.com womens-sports on behalf of the athletics Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, I'm Zena Kada thanking you for listening and we'll see you time next next time no Off Season is hosted by Zena Ka with Chantel Jennings and Sabrina Merchant is produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations.

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