← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Can’t Break the Fever, WNBA Officiating Under Review + Sports Betting 101
00:55:51
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- [00:00]
Zena Kada
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- [00:24]
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- [00:48]
Zena Kada
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Sabrina Merchant
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- [01:38]
Zena Kada
Hello everyone and welcome to no Off Season, presented by Amazon Business. I'm Zena Kada.
- [01:44]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [01:45]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [01:46]
Zena Kada
And today on the show, we're going to talk about what happened between Alyssa Thomas and Nafissa Collier at the end of Game three on Friday night. We dove into this a little bit on our emergency pod over the weekend, but we're going to dive a little bit deeper, particularly when it comes to what the frequency, freedom of movement looks like in the WNBA and the larger conversation around officiating in the W plus, as we barrel toward the WNBA Finals, the Athletics senior editor of Sports Betting, Hannah Van Biber, is going to join us to talk about WNBA Finals futures and what in the world a prop bet really is. But first, before we get into another weekend of incredible basketball, my heart was broken this morning and I'm sure many of you saw this. But in case you didn't, USC star Juju Watkins is officially out for the upcoming 2025, 2026 NCAA season following her ACL tear during last season's March Madness. Juju, we saw your message. We saw that this was not an easy decision to make as we can Imagine we will all miss you out on the court and we'll await your return in due time. More thoughts on that as we lead up to the NCAA season start, which is coming very soon. But for now, let's stick on the main topic of the wnba. On Sunday night on their home court, the Fever fought tooth and nail to avoid elimination. It was relentless. Just when you thought the Aces were about to put them away. Oh no, no, no. The Fever came roaring back, defeating the aces 90 to 83 and forcing a winner take all. Game five. Sabrina, you were there at Gainbridge Field House and you recently wrote a P about this tight bond that has been keeping the Fever from breaking this season. I've officially named them as my most resilient team this year. Of course, I'm out in the bay. I know what happened to the Valkyries and Eurobasket and injuries and all that. But the resiliency that the Fever have shown with 18 players, five not dressed out, finding a way to beat the teams that they did in the regular season and now one game away from the finals, how did that bond that you wrote about play into them finding themselves into this position? The lower seated fever, potentially pulling off the ultimate upset?
- [04:11]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, well, just first a point of clarification. It is six players not dressing in between Caitlin Clark, Sophie Cunningham, Arie McDonald, Sidney Coulson, Chloe Bibby and Damaris Dantis Demir Stantis is the only one who's not on a season ending injury. She's in concussion protocol, so it's possible she gets suited for game five or beyond, you know, should the fever get there. But yeah, I mean, I think resilient is absolutely the word to describe what's going on with this team. I take a lot of stock in what Odyssey Sim says about locker rooms because she's been in so many of them and she has signed with a team in August and finished out the season there three times in the last four years. And the other year she was on a hardship contract and ended up finishing out the season in Dallas. So she is very familiar with this. I come into a team midseason. I come in after everything has already been decided, after training camp, and I just have to figure out how to make everything work. And for her to say that this locker room is special, that this one enables everyone to be the very best version of themselves, that they have a culture that makes you want to participate, that makes you want to, you know, buy into what they've been doing since the start of the season, that to me resonates because who would know better than Odyssey? And for her to say that and you see that, you know, with Shea Petty having this experience, with Erin McDonald before she got hurt, having that experience, even Chloe Bibby was doing well before she suffered her season ending injury. It's hard to deny the results of each of these players finding a way to contribute and not having to do anything more than, like, what you would expect of them, right? Like, it's not as if you're asking Shea Petty to be a primary on ball creator. No, like, just play a little on ball defense, shoot a couple threes. Like, we're not asking anything more of you. And I think a lot of the credit goes to the existing players. With Kelsey Mitchell, Leah Boston establishing that culture. A lot of the credit, I would say, goes to the injured players who have continued to retain the standard.
- [05:50]
Zena Kada
Right.
- [05:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, everybody talks about how important Sid Colson and Sophie Cunningham in particular have been. Just voices on the bench, always timing their rehab so that they're there during practice, that they're, you know, adding an extra voice to the coaches, that they're giving their insight, their opinions. And then Steph White, right, the ability to pivot, the ability to create this environment where everybody feels welcome and supported and capable of being the best version of themselves. I know we talked a lot about Coach of the Year on this podcast and didn't really mention Steph White's name because of all of the other great candidates in this discussion, but I think what she's been able to do, particularly in the playoffs, is remarkable. And it's why there was such a clamor for the Fever to bring her back. Right? Like, why there was such an excitement about having her as a head coach of a team that could win a title. Because she's making adjustments regular season, playoffs. Like, I mean, I can't be alone among people who are counting the fever out after game three, right? Like, I just don't see how they have as much talent as the Aces. And yet, and yet things just keep happening for Indiana.
- [06:43]
Zena Kada
I wish there was a coach of the playoffs because, yes, I absolutely do believe that Stephanie White would get there. That Ben, when I think about this team, particularly watching them in that Game four, I felt as if as the game went on, they found more energy. Odyssey Sims was finding her way into the paint even easier. Lexi Hull was getting more of those 50, 50 balls, getting hands on things. She struggled from the three, but she put them shots up, you know, even when she was also chasing the crap.
- [07:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Out of Jackie Young.
- [07:13]
Zena Kada
I was just gonna say after she was chasing the crap outta Jackie Young. And that's a lot to ask. When you looked at that game and just saw their fight and them just not being willing to go away, how much of that did you see during the season and it translating or has there been like this renewed energy out of them in the playoffs?
- [07:32]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean I think we have seen the resilience all season long, but I think at the same time like they certainly fed off the home crowd on Sunday. Right. We saw just them playing into it, having the fans behind them, giving them energy. And we saw Leah Boston and Kelsey Mitchell as Sabrina was talking about, really elevate. And when you have two of the, you know, 12 to 15 best players, you know, arguably in the world on your team and they have the performances like they do and you have the home crowd behind them like that's how we get to a game five. Despite all the surprising, you know, the surprises in this series and frankly my personal surprise too, that we are, are where we are.
- [08:10]
Zena Kada
Okay, so let's talk about that Game five because obviously it's going to be in Vegas. You just talked about the home crowd for Indiana, but now the Aces will be back in Vegas. What are some of the adjustments you think that the Aces need to do to get back on top in this game or maybe fever need to keep going to be able to pull off the ultimate upset?
- [08:30]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I'm just really curious like what Becky Hammond does in terms of her lineup rotations because traditionally as series go on, we see coaches tinker with starting lineups and other rotation patterns. And we have seen Kirsten Bell, for instance, she played less than six minutes in Game 4. That's the fewest number of minutes that she has played. She started to become in the starting lineup in early August for the Las Vegas Aces. We saw kind of unusually so a Megan gustafson, Asia Wilson, 4th quarter crunch time run. I want to say Gustafson entered around the six minute mark of the fourth quarter and played much of the fourth quarter alongside Asia. And that is an unusual pairing for the Aces to use in that situation. In the regular season, Gustafson and Wilson only played in the fourth quarter together five times. Just five times. And they were minus 15.8 in terms of net rating in the fourth quarter when they were playing together in the regular season. And we didn't see them have a ton of success in game four. I mean, I would imagine the logic in putting Gustafson next to Wilson was that you could have another big considering how effective Aaliyah Boston was. But I don't know if it really had the desired effect. I mean, Megan Gustafsson hadn't played that much in. In more than a month. She plays 15 minutes. And so entering game five, like, that's the big question I have is who does Becky Hammond turn to? Is it Bell? Is it Gustafson? Does she just ride Jewel Lloyd? Like, do we see Dana Evans play even more? Because Dana Evans has had a really, really good series. Sabrina wrote about this in Game three, there's a lot of options, and I think that's kind of rare that we reach this point in the series. And I'm not exactly sure, like, what is the best combo or what Becky is going to turn to. It makes him tough to prepare for, but it also makes it a little uncertain, like, how Las Vegas is going to play this.
- [10:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Well. I think the reason she went with Meg Gustafson next to Asia Wilson so often in Game four was because Melissa Smith was in foul trouble. And that is a very important part of the Game four conversation. Because you may have heard from the Las Vegas Aces post game press conference, The Fever took 34 free throws and the Aces took 11. And that was because Melissa Smith, Jackie Young, Chelsea Gray all had five fouls during the course of the game. Megan Gustafson even had four fouls of her own. It was very difficult for them to defend without fouling. Whether that was an Indiana home court situation, whether that was just the Aces not playing defense well enough. You can make your own interpretations of that, but defense was on my mind.
- [10:43]
Ben Pickman
Sabrina, what is it like to get next question? Because you asked that question. Can you just tell the listeners you asked Becky Hammond about the officiating and the free throw discrepancy and she next questioned you. What is that like for you in the moment?
- [10:54]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, Becky Hammond comes into the presser, like, just a little behind the scene. The press box at Cambridge Field House is upstairs, like sort of the second bull in. And so you have to take the elevator down to get to the press conference room. And by the time I get off the elevator, the Aces are already walking into the room. So, like, everybody's just trying to, like, get themselves together. You're supposed to have a little bit more of a buffer time. But, you know, the Aces were just rearing to go, and Becky comes into the room with, like, murder in her eyes and nobody wants to ask the first question. And I'm like, I mean, I'll do it, like, obviously. And she's just immediately next questions me about the officiating, but, you know, you just gotta get her warmed up because she eventually got to the point you wanted to where she used some choice words to talk about the officiating that Asia would not use because Asia has a brand to protect and, you know, explained everything we needed to know about her thoughts on the situation. But, yeah, I don't think it's going to happen again.
- [11:38]
Zena Kada
Then, yeah, the favorite word I saw Asia using. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Everything was very interesting. Yeah, for me, I'm looking at two stats that were huge. And everyone talks about this officiating. We're going to talk a little bit about officiating, but the turnovers and points off of turnovers tracking. There was terrible tracking of the Indiana Fever in transition, and every single time there was a turnover, they were just gone. Um, and then the second chance points, like, if you're going to have Megan Gustafson in there, she's got to get more than what I think she had, two rebounds or whatever. It was like, there's. If you're going to use size, you've got to get on the boards. 0 second chance points for the Vegas versus 12 for Indiana. Not. Not good. Not. Okay, so very interesting. We'll see what happens. But shout out to the Fever for pushing this to a game five and we will wait to see what happens there. Now let's shift over to the series that has been decided, and that is the Phoenix Mercury taking the semifinals away from the Minnesota Links with that last game, 86 to 81. And I say taking because obviously the Minnesota Links were the number one seed and expected to move on at least to the finals, at least. I think all three of us were three for three thinking that the Links were going to move on. So now they had to win that game against the team that did not have their head coach and Sheryl Reeve, and without their star player, MVP runner up Nafeesa Collier, who sustained a left ankle injury on Friday night. And folks, we put out an emergency pod around this because Cheryl Reeve was suspended for her comments in relation to the officiating on the court, how she handled herself in her frustration to the officiating and some of the comments that she made as she exited the court. We'll get into it a little bit later in this episode as well, but for Sunday's game, the way it started, Ben, I was like, okay, in that emergency episode, I said, I just want some emotional galvanization, something to just boost this team up. And they came out, they being the Lynx running, it was like Every shot was hitting, all the energy was in their direction and then it kind of simmered down. What was the difference for the Mercury in this particular game throughout this series against the Lynx? Like, what do they do different to be able to get to the top?
- [14:02]
Ben Pickman
Well, it, it simmered down and then it simmered back up and then it simmered back down again. Like, this game had a number of significant swings. The Minnesota links led by 11 after the first quarter. It was tied at halftime. They led by 13 after three quarters and Phoenix ends up winning by five. Like this game had some very stark swings. And we saw the Minnesota Links. Yeah, I mean, someone who got paid or served themselves very well. Like I think me and Sabrina, I don't actually don't know where you fall in the Jeff Shepard fan club scale. But like Jess Shepard can be a very, very effective player. She has proven this before. She's taken time off to just play in Europe and missed last year's WNBA season. But she came in, she scores 10 points in the first quarter. She shows off her flurry, her wide range of post moves and was really, really good. She ends up with three. Just 14 though, a playoff career high. But she scored just four after that hot start. And just by function of throwing shepherd in the starting lineup. Even with her being productive, the Minnesota Links were down to basically a seven player rotation. And we saw just kind of them, it seemed like they were running out of gas a little bit in the fourth quarter. And Eric Tebow, the associate head coach talked about this. They had a lot of possessions where they got decent looks, but they were late shot clock possessions, you know, right before the end of the clock trying to make sure they were going to get the best thing up because they couldn't get, they couldn't generate easy offense in the same way we didn't see Natisha heidman. She scores 19 in game one. She finishes with just three in game four. And I want to say they were three late once the margin was already decided. And it was really just up to Kayla McBride to shoot them and keep them into the game. She scores 14 in the third. She continues to go off in the fourth, but really her and Courtney Williams were the only two players who generated any offense for Minnesota. And that was really difficult because though Phoenix didn't play its best offensive game, we saw that once Phoenix gets stops, they play with much more freedom on offense. They push pace and we see Alyssa Thomas in transition, the ball just doesn't stick as much and you know, that was really key in catalyzing the comeback. The other key for them in the fourth quarter was Dewana Bono, who had not hit a three pointer all series. She hits three in the fourth quarter. She finishes with I think 11 of her 13 points in the fourth. And look again, we talked about it as it relates to Bonner, her impact in the New York series and how she hit that late shot to kind of seal the series against New York. She does the same kind of thing here. Despite what you might think about her season as a whole or how she fits with the Phoenix Mercury. Like, because she has those moments, in my mind, it's all worth it. Like, that's why you get a veteran in and that's the payoff. So that you have someone in that moment who can score 11 points, you can hit three threes and help lift you to the next round. Like that is good enough. If she does nothing else in the finals, like she will have, you know, the signing will have been worth it.
- [16:43]
Zena Kada
Oh, I love that. And I kind of feel like that about, I mean, not necessarily from a signing perspective because Sammy Wickham was on this team, but like, again, big shots, right? Being able to hit the big shots at the right times. And these vets did that. Did exactly that. Sabrina, for you, when you watch this game and you think about what Phoenix kind of did all season long, they were top four relatively all year long. I kind of looked at them as like the engine that could, but like the big engine that could not the little because they did have Alyssa Thomas and Satsu Sabley and KHA Copper, but they had inconsistencies all season long. They didn't get KA until a few games in until, you know, a month in. They had Duana that couldn't quite immediately fit in. They couldn't quite figure out how to place her throughout the season. They had all these rookies that they were kind of rotating in and out and try to figure out how to capitalize on on them. And they were able to unlock something similar to the bond that you're talking about with the fever. Phoenix quietly built their own bond while everyone was kind of looking towards the New Yorks and the and Minnesotas and Atlanta's. And then there's also something to be said about Satu Sabley and just how much she is a litmus test for how good this team can be. What'd you see in this matchup in this particular game for Phoenix and the Lynx?
- [18:00]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think what's interesting about Phoenix is we talk so often and we Talked about this after the Sandy Brown Della firing, about how important it is to have a foundation for a team. Like you don't usually win in year one of building a new team. It's hard to develop that chemistry and that just instinctive know how of like where your teammate is going to be at any given moment in one year. And Yet Phoenix Mercury, 10 new players compared to last year's roster. Only Kalia Copper and Natasha Mack returned. And like their system is entirely different because it's entirely based on Alyssa Thomas, like the actions that she runs with Sammy Woodcom, you mentioned the rookies and when you call a big part of the team, she's started basically every game this season. Katherine Westfield, big part of the rotation, like so many new pieces. And for that to come together now is so interesting to me because you don't usually win in year one, right? Like you do what Minnesota did, where you have this, you know, nice playoff run where you announce yourself and then you try to come back the next year or you do what New York did in 2023, right? Like you have a nice playoff run and then you come back the next year. And Phoenix to me felt like a year away because, you know, it's only Nate Tibbetts second year as a head coach. It's only year one of this system in Phoenix. But I've been so impressed with their fourth quarters in this series against Minnesota. Minnesota was the best fourth quarter team in the WNBA all regular season. I mean basically every side you look at, Minnesota was the best team in the wnba. But the way Phoenix plays defense, like Minnesota relies on their movement to generate their offense and they make you work so hard for the first 30 minutes, right, that over those last 10 minutes it looked like Minnesota just didn't have any more legs, right? Like there weren't any more cuts, there weren't any more actions off the ball. And I was so impressed with every fourth quarter, you know, game two, game three, game four. Phenix is just pummeling them, right? Like they, Minnesota can't score anything. And it's so interesting to see a team that like has never been here together before, right? Like they've all individually been in these situations. Sammy Wickham's a champion, dawn of Bonner is a champion. But like to come together like this to figuratively suffocate the best offense in the WNBA and do it again and again and again to where they don't have any answers. Like I think it's a real testament to Nate Tibbets his Coaching, I think it's a real testament, testament to just the defensive culture that they've built. Like offensively, I still kind of wonder what Phoenix is doing at any given moment when they're not in transition. But defensively they have an identity and it's very clear what they are capable of doing for 40 minutes.
- [20:10]
Ben Pickman
Do you feel like, Sabrina, that having ATN saw to, you know, we talked about it earlier this season as bigs, these kind of unicorn bigs is a big reason why that they were able to kind of push through some of the like experience shortcomings that, you know, when all else fails, they have these players who are uniquely talented with unique skill sets. SATU can bully you and dominate on the glass and we've seen that six rebounds in game four. AT can do it all. She can create, she can push and transition, she can guard anybody and like just create offense out of nothing as a result. Like, you know, I wonder in some ways. And you need a lot of luck. Like they benefited from certainly fee getting hurt and now having a significant frontcourt advantage. And we saw that in the first round as well. Stewie goes down, they have a significant Advantage In Game 2, they go back home and that front court, I mean Stewie played amazing, but JJ finishes with three points. Like, you know, I think their hunch about team building and meeting star bigs has proven correct. I now wonder if you have those star bigs, like do you need the experience together or did they kind of break the mold because of it? Does that make any sense?
- [21:25]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, obviously you want to accumulate as much talent as possible. And I think about what New York did, bringing Stewie and Jonquil Jones together in 2023 and just what an advantage that was to have two awesome front court players. And that's, you know, what Phoenix is benefiting from. I think the matchup is really important here because Minnesota is so small on the perimeter, right?
- [21:41]
Ben Pickman
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Like you're having Bridget Carlton having to guard Satu Saveli and then when Bridget gets into foul trouble as she did in the third quarter, then you're like relying on Natisha Heidemann on SATU and switches because Dijonay Carrington's out. And I think this matchup in particular was really bad for Minnesota because of their size deficiencies on the perimeter. It was just so hard for them to find capable bodies to guard Bonner and AT and SATU all at once. And yeah, I mean part of it is just you put the best players you can together and hope that it works out. I Think part of it is just Minnesota was uniquely ill prepared to handle this matchup from Phoenix because they are so small on the wing.
- [22:15]
Zena Kada
I know you didn't ask me then, but I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm 1000% with what Sabrina was saying. Because for me, the number one thing I was noticing was I. How many offensive rebounds felt so much more emphatic being grabbed by Phoenix Mercury players over the Courtney Williams and the Natisha Heidemans the last game in game three, I actually thought that Phoenix had like 10 more offensive rebounds than they did. I think they only had one. But it felt, and it came at opportune moments and it came in the fourth quarter. And you realize in that moment, specifically in the fourth quarter, just how small they were. Especially when Phoenix starts switching and the body in front of you is satusable. Right. And you talk about the unicorn bigs. Yes, I actually think it's less about the unicorn bigs and just the fact that they. They are so versatile. Right. Like, yes, Alyssa can. Can pass and shoot and do all the things that she does, but she's versatile. She can throw you across. If you're a fellow defender, she can throw you across the floor and take care of yours and then rotate back to hers regardless of position without there ever being a little bit of slippage in the defense. And that's not necessarily the case for Minnesota. So I love the matchup element and that's why I feel like it would have interesting to see. Well, we could still see this, Phoenix versus the Aces, because even with the size advantage that I think Phoenix will have, we know Jackie Young can cross him up with the best of them. We saw that against the Fever when Brianna Turner was, you know, switching onto her. Anyways, I'm going off the rails, but I do think that this is a really, really exciting matchup, regardless of whether it's the Fever or the Aces, just because it's someone new. We haven't seen the Phoenix in the finals in a while. So shout out to Phoenix Mo moving on. And of course, when there is a winner, there is a loser. And one of the things that we saw was the repercussions of that loss. Caleb McBride was very emotional at the Lynx post game press conference, talking about the bond that she had with her teammates, saying that it's unmatched. She's a veteran in this league and she referenced that and that she's experienced that. And when asked about the loss and why she was emotional, was it the loss? Was it how it Happened. She was talking about the locker room. Sabrina, I'll start with you. Like, how devastating is this loss for the Links? They were so close and that's what Kayla talked about. Has the window closed on them potentially getting a title in the near future?
- [24:38]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, you can't really get closer than Minnesota did last year. It just can't.
- [24:43]
Zena Kada
Literally down to a club to basically.
- [24:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Bring back the bulk of the roster and then not feel like you got a full chance at it because, you know, if he gets hurt because DJ gets hurt, it just must really sting, you know, to not. To not have that opportunity. And Ben wrote about this, like, you just never know when you're going to have a full strength chance, right? Like, you can't expect that. Like, oh, we're going to bring back the same group and have another go round next year. Like, teams are always different, circumstances are always different. You never know if the health is going to go in your favor. And I think about expansion drafts coming up and Minnesota has a lot of decisions to make and will they be able to keep everyone protected? No. Will they be able to keep everyone from free agency? Like, probably not. So I just think this team is going to look distinctly different next year and that's probably what Kayla McBride is feeling like. I think about the Aces at the end of the semifinals last year, how they were so emotional after losing to New York because they knew that their roster was going to go through some changes. And I think that's what Kayla was sort of experiencing the moment. Like, this is the last time I'm going to get to play with this group who clearly means so much to her. And to go out like that is. I mean, I was emotional watching her.
- [25:47]
Zena Kada
I was too.
- [25:48]
Ben Pickman
She really did loop the two years together too. Like, that was honestly the thing that struck me was she referenced explicitly what these last two years have meant and she thought about them in that moment of reflection in one swoop. And I think a lot of us in the public have reflected on the Minnesota Links in this two year chunk. I thought to me in telling that she did much the same way because like, as you're talking about Sabrina, like, there is a lot of change it seems like we are going to see in the WNBA this coming off season. And we have seen them hit, you know, Cheryl Reeve hit home run after home run in assembling this roster. And you know, Cheryl's one of the best executives in the league in terms of team building and she hit home runs with bringing in Atlanta Smith and Courtney Williams and Natisha Heidman, like those were a plus signings that have had incredible payoffs. Sure she could probably, you know she will try to do much the same no matter who is on the market and who leaves and who stays. But it's a lot to kind of have, you know, career role players or career, you know, borderline all stars become perennial all stars and or all defensive player and or defense player of the years. Like that's a lot. And maybe they'll be able to find, you know, I guess diamonds in the rough, so to speak, they'll be able to create more gems that all fit together but maybe they won't. And so I think that's why K Mac was so emotional and you know, it seems like she knew like this two year window was something special. And it's why when you get so close like there's no guarantees that that you'll ever get that close again going forward.
- [27:19]
Zena Kada
Well, we will see what happens because this isn't the only team that's going to experience this. As Sabrina mentioned, there's a lot that's going to happen next year, but we still have a little bit more playoffs to look forward to on the other side of this break, we're going to dig a little deeper on the AT and fee incident from Friday night. Sheryl Reeves comments and what it could all mean for officiating moving forward. Don't go anywhere how can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights and Support available@AmazonBusiness.com.
- [28:10]
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- [28:37]
Zena Kada
Lounge access is subject to change.
- [28:38]
Sabrina Merchant
See capitalone.com for details.
- [28:40]
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- [29:16]
Zena Kada
Okay, so now let's move into the other story from over the weekend that we want to dig into a little bit deeper. Cheryl Reeves suspension following her on court conduct on Friday night and her comments in the post game press conference surrounding the officiating in the Lynx game against the Mercury has led to a larger conversation around officiating overall. Now, we did an emergency pod that we released on Sunday, audio only. We discussed the foul, whether or not we thought it was a foul, how we're looking at it, et cetera. So go check that out if you want to hear it. But we want to dive into it again from a different perspective, particularly around the ongoing frustration around inconsistency in officiating and also transparency in the WNBA around officiating. So first let's revisit what happened on Friday night between Alyssa Thomas and Nafisa Collier in those last 30 seconds of the fourth quarter. Those of you listening, we're going to run the video, we're going to talk about this. So come on over to YouTube so you can watch it. And then Sabrina, give us a rundown, walk us through this play. What exactly happened?
- [30:19]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, so Anafisa Collier inbounds the balls and Atisha Heideman, he basically pitches it right back to Collier. Alyssa Thomas reaches across Collier's body and strips the ball cleanly without touching Nafisa Collier before she touches the ball. But as she goes for the ball, now that it's loose, her and Fee's lower bodies collide and Fee ends up injuring her ankle in the process as Alyssa Thomas goes down the other end for the essentially game deciding score there.
- [30:46]
Ben Pickman
And we should say, you know, the NBA referee's Twitter account came out in a unprecedented, I would say gesture and weighed in on this play saying that this was all caps, not a foul. And they said that Thomas established legal guarding position and knocks the ball loose prior to the contact and that then the leg to leg contact that you're talking about, Sabrina, was incidental once the ball is loose and that as a result the call is correctly judged in real time. But then there was this debate then about incidental versus marginal because clearly there is significant contact that is made when two of the players collide. And it sparked this whole conversation about broader freedom of movement and what is the right of the offensive player. And what is the right of the defensive player? Because that seems to be this big hang up that I think has been sparked off. This is. You know, it's come to light that offensive players seem like they're very limited sometimes in how they can maneuver around the court. I don't know how else to say it. You know, the WNBA rulebook gets into guarding an opponent. They have these rules on screening, they have rules on dribbling. And it just seems like the style of play right now. And this is what a lot of coaches have talked about. Not that it favors the defense, but it certainly does not favor the offensive player maneuvering around. And that I think is the real hang up that this play will get remembered for as much as anything else right now.
- [32:09]
Sabrina Merchant
I really liked Becky Hammond's comparison to football. Like, if a receiver is going for a catch and the DB is also trying to get to the ball. Like if the ball is still in the air, the defensive back can't just clobber the, you know, the receiver to get to the ball. Right? Like, if it's a loose ball, you still have to maintain guarding position throughout. And I think that was Becky Hammond's point was now that the ball is clear, that doesn't mean that, you know, one player should be allowed to just run through the other player. And her quibble with incidental contact with it was, I thought, really interesting because she's like, I mean, if you think about it, most fouls are incidental. Like you're not trying to foul the other person. So are we just supposed to rule that all those fouls are not fouls because they're incidental contact? Which honestly. Good point. But, yeah, I think the idea of like, what should be allowed here versus what was actually allowed is something that has come come up a lot in these last 48 hours or so.
- [32:59]
Zena Kada
And that's the thing, right? By the letter of the law, it's a foul. You know, we heard the pundits say that they talked to the head of officiating and it was and were explained as to why it was a foul. You guys stated that are listening to the audio, could not see. Maybe you could feel the rolling of my eyes when Ben talked about the NBA referee account on social media saying in all caps it was not a foul and unprecedented. Emphasis on unprecedented. It was just like, really? This is now the time that you are chiming in on calls?
- [33:31]
Ben Pickman
Why do you think they did that, Zena? Why do you think they chimed in at this moment?
- [33:33]
Zena Kada
In my own opinion, and I've stated this. It gave defensive. It gave. We have to ensure that someone like Sheryl Reeve, a head coach that has a lot of respect and a lot of power in this league, not being able to criticize our referee staff and our officiating staff without us having their back. Okay, that's my personal opinion. It came out of nowhere. And I honestly don't think that even if it was a foul that that account would have been like, you know what, you right, we got it wrong. I just don't think that would have happened. So anyways, that's neither here nor there. But to your point though, about this freedom of movement. Now as a girlie, I used to get called for a lot of these type of fouls on defense. It was like my main bread or butter. You ain't cutting across the paint on me. I'm going to have a armbar up. Something's going to happen. But I get it. Like you can't have that happen where someone is trying to impede your motion to a particular spot on the floor and not get called for a foul. It doesn't make sense. But I hear now a lot of WNBA players are talking specifically about that the motion being them as an offensive player trying to get to a particular spot and a defender being in their way and being allowed to be in their way regardless of what we're discussing, incidental contact, marginal contact, et cetera. So let's get into this concept. Sabrina, when you're hearing folks talk about freedom of movement, what does this mean in the wnba? I only played at the college level, so I don't know if it's the same, you know, translates the same. But when they're talking about it, what does it look like and how does it differ from other leagues that we're seeing from the WNBA in comparison to other leagues?
- [35:16]
Sabrina Merchant
I think freedom of movement generally means that the offensive player has a right to like their spot on the floor without being impeded by a defensive player. And that means you can't put two hands on an offensive player. It means you can't like just sort of like throw your shoulder in the way as they're trying to run by or check them. You know, you can't check them. Little check. Exactly right. I also just can't get over the fact that the same referee crew that was called unsuitable for a WNBA semifinals game by Cheryl Reeve, the very same three person crew, was sent to Indiana for game four and proceeded to call 41 fouls.
- [35:46]
Ben Pickman
She did not call them. She did not call them unsuitable. Let's just be clear, Sheri.
- [35:49]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, for the purpose of this podcast and the language I'm allowed to use, she called them unsuitable for WNBA semifinals game. Right.
- [35:55]
Zena Kada
But I will say this quickly. They did a really good job.
- [35:59]
Sabrina Merchant
Not according to Becky Hammond.
- [36:01]
Zena Kada
Well, for every single foul that was called when they reviewed it, I was like, fair, fair. So I don't know, I don't know. But Becky Hammond, we can, we can differ in this situation, but yes, the balance was, was off. So maybe she also is like calling up her buddy Cheryl Reeve to be like, yo, you were right, you were right.
- [36:20]
Sabrina Merchant
No, but I think, I think that's the idea of freedom of movement. And I think by definition freedom of movement isn't intended to prioritize the offensive players intended to allow for more movement on the offensive end, which makes the game a little bit more free flowing and a little bit more scoring heavy. And if you think about leagues that have more freedom of movement, I would consider the NBA among them because they do not allow hand checking, they do not allow illegal defense. Like you have a defensive three seconds rule. So there's all these opportunities for offensive players to get to their spot on the floor without being impeded by a defensive player. And I think the WNBA enforces freedom of movement significantly less than the NBA does. Which you may agree with that, you may not agree with that, but it definitely encourages a different style of play between those two leagues. Which is why it's so weird that the NBA referee account would come chiming in here as if they have the same rules. Because I don't think that they're applied the same way.
- [37:10]
Ben Pickman
Right. And there's a question here about how a rule is applied and how it is written. Because I did ask this question to multiple WNBA execs over the weekend was is the NBA's rule or rules on this topic written the same way as the W? And to what I was told it is, yes, that the rules are literally written the same way. And I also had someone make the point to me that it almost seems like the WNBA style of play is more similar, say to men's college basketball, where if anyone here or is listening is a men's college basketball watcher, you know that so often there are games that end 62, 58, 53, 47. Like the style of play is just clunkier. It has way less flow. There's other reasons for that too, which we don't have to get into. But like, like it looks a little bit more like that than maybe the NBA at times. Was, I thought was an interesting comparison.
- [38:01]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't agree with that at all, but.
- [38:03]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, why don't. Why don't you agree with that?
- [38:04]
Hannah Van Biber
Yeah.
- [38:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I think men's college basketball is so much clunkier than the wnba.
- [38:08]
Ben Pickman
I think it is, too.
- [38:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. Like, the scores that you were mentioning do not exist in the wnba.
- [38:11]
Ben Pickman
That's true. But I think. I think the point this person was trying to make was that, like, if you're looking at a spectrum of does this look more like the NBA or a different style?
- [38:21]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, I think it looks FIBA basketball to me, is what I would say.
- [38:25]
Zena Kada
Yeah.
- [38:25]
Ben Pickman
And I think that's a fair point. Yeah.
- [38:27]
Zena Kada
And how would you, like, compare it to NCAA women's basketball?
- [38:32]
Sabrina Merchant
I think NCAA women's basketball is even more physical than the WNBA and probably could stand to get cleaned up a little bit there. Okay.
- [38:39]
Ben Pickman
It all stems. Like so many people, they're talking about this particular rule, and this is something that so many people in the league have said that they've harped on for a number of years. So there's both the kind of micro conversation about rules and enforcement, there's a broader conversation about inconsistency in officiating, which we have seen, you know, repeatedly over these past couple years. And then there's these systemic questions that a lot of people in the league and around the league are also asking. What impact does w longtime WNBA officials or potential WNBA officials moving on to the NBA have on the quality of WNBA fishing? What impact does salary information. And I should say, like, you know, there's not so concrete data out there, a ton of concrete data as to the pay discrepancies. But we do know certainly that officials who officiate WNBA games, they're only doing it for half the year, and they're getting paid less than an NBA official who's doing it the entirety of the year. Right. That's another big question. There's a question about, you know, the training systems. Right. We've had some of these conversations before, and all of these things are getting brought up right now. I think one of my big questions going forward and the WNBA has these competition committee meetings in November, as they normally do after the season, is, does this incident with Shell Reef, will it be the thing that really sparks the most change that so many people around the league have been calling for? Or is the NBA and the WNBA the people at the top of officiating? Are they going to say, well, you know, our data, which we collect suggests X, Y and Z. We don't think we Have a problem. Because I think then there it goes back to this, the classic maximum of like the first step in solving a problem is admitting you have a problem. Right. Like, is any progress going to be made if the league doesn't admit that they have something they need to reevaluate? I think a lot of people around the league want to know the answer to that question too.
- [40:27]
Zena Kada
Now what's interesting is that a lot of folks are frustrated with the officiating, sure, from the style of play, what ends up becoming the product when you're seeing that sort of thing. But people also are concerned about is the lack of calls, missed calls, incorrect calls, leading to some sort of impact on injuries. And there was a report out of ESPN that the WNBA Referee Operations Review Data Committee, they review data based on things that they found to be, quote, unquote, legitimate criticism of the league. But they found that the allegations that officiating errors had led to more injuries were unfounded. And this is what was shared with espn.
- [41:09]
Ben Pickman
Well, we should be very clear here. We should be very clear because I think the semantics here do make a difference. ESPN and their story reports that league sources told them this.
- [41:17]
Zena Kada
Sure.
- [41:18]
Ben Pickman
They did not actually say that they reviewed the data. Right.
- [41:21]
Sabrina Merchant
And so any of the data.
- [41:23]
Ben Pickman
They did not present any of the data. Right.
- [41:25]
Zena Kada
I was going to get to that. They told ESPN that they. But, but here's the issue and this is what I want to bring to the forefront. Transparency. Right? Like this is a continued issue. You go out and the WNBA says that they're reviewing the things that are, quote, unquote, legit criticism. But once again, we, the people out here, the media, the fans, everyone, we don't see what they reviewed. One, we don't know what is legitimate criticism. It just came out. So are we talking about what Sheryl Reeve said? Are we talking about what players have said? What is the legitimate criticism? And then also, how did you conduct this? And also who told ESPN this? So anyways, the whole thing has been an issue in officiating is that there isn't a two minute report like there is in the NBA. There isn't an understanding of how these referees are evaluated, et cetera. How much is transparency beyond the frustrations and potential links to whatever you want to say, injuries, whatever, it doesn't matter how much is the frustration around the transparency issue been.
- [42:24]
Ben Pickman
I mean, it definitely is an issue. But I'm sorry, I can't get it out of my head that as we are talking about this, Sabrina, internally, to our company Slack, to our NBA colleagues, she posed a question over the weekend of does Cheryl Reeves her rant, her diatribe, remind anyone of any other comments, rants, or venting PostGame from the NBA? And someone, one of our great colleagues, John Hollinger, responded. David Fisdale, a former Memphis Grizzly coach, take that for data. And so I just can't get that out of my head. As we're talking about data here and the wnba, I just imagine people being like, take that for data. Here's our data. And we're like, well, we actually don't see the data. We don't know how it's collected. Like, that is a big issue here. Show me the study, show me the specifics.
- [43:07]
Sabrina Merchant
6.
- [43:08]
Ben Pickman
And then we will take, you know, what is being said and what is being reported. I think with a little bit of a. A different skew once we just have more information on it.
- [43:18]
Sabrina Merchant
And it reminds me of when we were talking about the scheduling earlier this season, how we, you know, players have suggested that the cadence of games has been harder on them and, you know, made it difficult to maintain their health during the course of the season. You know, we had league sources reach out and say, like, our data suggests that the injury rate is no different in 2025 than it was in 2024. But what is our data?
- [43:36]
Hannah Van Biber
Like?
- [43:37]
Sabrina Merchant
We don't know what to do with that.
- [43:39]
Zena Kada
Right. I think that's. People want consistency and they just want to understand. They want to understand how is this coming up? How are, how are decisions being made? And one thing is for absolute certain, we keep talking about the growth of the wnba and I'm going to whisper it so it sounds really special. The growth of the WNBA and all these eyes on the WNBA and everyone's really excited about the wnba. Well, guess what? But as this league grows, more and more people gonna have some questions. And it's not just the people that are investing at the top. It's the people that are spending money on tickets, people that are spending money to watch these games, people that are invested because they care about the product. And wnba. Damn, here goes. Kathy, are you listening? Once again, talking to you. We are. We're homies. We're locked in now. People want to understand where is this data coming from? All right, let me get off my high horse. Stick around. We got a very special guest and a very special game of sorts on the other side of this break.
- [44:41]
Ben Pickman
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- [45:17]
Zena Kada
In a good way.
- [45:18]
Sabrina Merchant
He'd also tell you that this podcast.
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Ben Pickman
Is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks.
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Sabrina Merchant
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- [46:09]
Zena Kada
Now, whether you are new to the world of sports betting or you're in the world but you're not allowed to bet just yet, that out California or you need a refresher? This segment is for you. The Athletic senior editor of Sports Betting, Hannah Van Biber is here. Hannah, thank you for joining us. We desperately, at least I desperately need your help here.
- [46:32]
Hannah Van Biber
Hey, thanks for having me. I'm very excited to talk through the odds and make you guys make picks. So happy to hear.
- [46:40]
Zena Kada
Well, let's get right into it. We are talking about the betting world from around the WNBA Finals and specifically something called the WNBA Finals Futures. Hannah, break that down into what this means. We're going to let you take it from here.
- [46:54]
Hannah Van Biber
Okay, great. Happy to take it from here. Yes, we're going to talk about this magical thing called futures. But first let me back up a little bit. And just for betting 100 1, if you're completely new to betting, let me tell you what a couple of the most basic lines are. When you look at at a sports book, like for game five, you're going to see a money line, a point spread and a total. And the money line is just saying who's going to win the game. And there are odds that tell you how much you can win, how much they're favored. The point spread is betting on how much someone will win the game by and then the total is how many combined points both teams will score. So the total is also called over, under because you either bet over that number they give or under that number they give give. So for Game 5, maybe we're getting too into the weeds, but the total is 158.5 points. So you can say I think it's going to go over that between both teams or under that between both teams. The point spread favors the aces by 7.5 points. So if the aces cover, that means they'd have to win by more than seven and a half points. So eight or more points. If the fever lose, but they lose by less than that, they covered the the spread. So if they lose by only three points, the fever covered, but they still lost the game. So that's how the point spread works. And then the money line, basically, if you see a minus number next to it, you're looking at the favorite. And if you see a plus number next to it, you're looking at the underdog. So the aces are minus 375, which is a pretty big number actually. And the fever are plus 290. So all that means the minus is how much money you'd have to give. So think of it as deducting from your bank account. That's what the minus is to win $100. So it's not a great return. You'd have to bet 375 just to win 100. So then you, you get your 375 back. But that's quite a risk. And then the plus 290 for the fever means that that's how much you would win if you give $100. If you wager $100. So that one, you get a lot more bang for your buck because they are not expected to win. So, okay, I've gone way too long on moneyline point spread in total. But that is like very basic for every game. See that? That said, let's go to WNBA Futures, which is for the finals. These odds are courtesy of BetMGM gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER. So for the WNBA futures, we have odds on who is going to win the finals even though we don't know who the finals teams are yet. So the Mercury are favored because really because they're the only team that's for sure going to be there. But then we have the Aces and Fever with odds as well. The Aces are the second favorite and they are really close to the Mercury in the odds. It's minus 115 and plus 115. So they're just on either side of the favored versus underdog line, then the fever are plus 1400, which is 14 to 1 odds. So this shows me that the sportsbooks don't think the Fever are going to make it to the finals, which is also what the money line and point spread tell us. So what do you guys think about these, the Mercury being favored? Do you think the Fever could actually beat the the odds and win it at plus 1400? That'd be a lot of money.
- [50:13]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. I mean, it's not surprising, as you mentioned, that Indiana is such a long shot favorite based on the game five odds. Right. Because you have to look at it like Indiana is priced as a significant underdog for game five. And so then it's not then surprising that they're also going to be a significant underdog for the entirety of the series if they're already the lower seeded team. They're already dealing with, you know, five players who have gone out for the season with season ending injuries, plus, and maybe you can speak to this too, Hannah, like those odds plus 1400. Yeah, it's a long shot, but Indiana, because of how popular they are, like Vegas, is trying to entice people to bet that number. And so like they're a very public team. They're a team that generates a lot of interest in conversation. And so probably I would take a guess that some of the internal modeling that they have at some of these sports books, like, would suggest that, that Indiana isn't even that close to, you know, Phoenix potentially either.
- [51:09]
Hannah Van Biber
Yeah, I would agree with that. The Fever probably getting a lot of what they call public money. So a lot of people are just going to see that and want to throw a couple bucks on that. Sometimes that changes the odds just from sportsbooks trying to like hedge their own risk. But yeah, I would think they're trying to make this kind of an intriguing, enticing number to people to bet on the Fever. That's a great point, Ben.
- [51:33]
Zena Kada
And let's be real, Fever fans will absolutely put that money down just to be able to say, just in case, yeah, I want, I'm going to support my team, but if they put in win money, I mean, if the Fever pull it out, we'll never hear the end of it. I'm just saying. Just saying.
- [51:47]
Hannah Van Biber
You're right about that. Hey, if I bet a hundred dollars and win 1400, I'm never going to shut up about it, period.
- [51:55]
Ben Pickman
Any good props that we should be thinking about? I know we don't have a finals matchup, but you know, props bets being these kind of points bets or you know, player specific bets or quarter bets you often see. Hold on, hold on.
- [52:07]
Zena Kada
Let's back it on up. Ben, we gotta get a prop bet. Explainer's gonna explain.
- [52:13]
Ben Pickman
Hannah's gonna explain.
- [52:14]
Hannah Van Biber
We're gonna do it. Don't worry, guys, we'll do an explainer. And I will say, as Ben pointed out, there aren't really props available for the finals because prop bets are bets about a specific game. But instead of the things that are about like who's going to win or lose and by how much, it's like who's going to make the first basket. So for game five, Aja Wilson has odds on some sportsbooks of plus 370, which is the best you can get to make the first basket. So props are things like that, like who's the first team to score a basket? What's the method of the first basket? Who's the first player to score in the first three minutes, the first player to 10 plus points. All of these kind of props you can bet will someone get a double double and they'll have odds on many of the players. So that's what props are. There are props available for game five so you can bet on that. But then when the finals are set, you'll start seeing props for whatever teams and players are in the finals. So I don't know if you guys want to make any predictions for game five or we should go on to our props game.
- [53:16]
Ben Pickman
I'm certainly predicting the Las Vegas Aces. I think Xena, based on our conversation is as well. But I think we wanted to say, you know, in terms of our game, like a few fun things that we were thinking about and, or made up. Would, would any of these change the odds? I think we'll, we'll finish this off with three rounds because you know, we love a three round game here. Of would this change the odds if and the big stat that we wanted to jump off of and maybe. Zena, you also, I'm sure, have some thoughts here, knowing how you study the on court and off court fashion of all of the WNBA's players and coaches. But Steph White, the Indiana Fever are 5, 0 when Stephanie White, their head coach coach, wears either a red or maroon leather jacket. That includes the regular season and the postseason. 2, 0, I believe in elimination games. Our own Sabrina Merchant has actually asked Steph White about that. And I think it is fair to expect Steph White to wear a red or maroon leather jacket for Tuesday night's game. Knowing this statistic, I guess Hannah or Xena. Do you guys have a thought on whether her choice to wear that color jacket will impact the line or not? Do you think that's enough of a. Did I just sway you in your thinking at all for game five, Zeta?
- [54:24]
Zena Kada
See, my thought is that when things like that are actually called out, the magic of it goes away. Right? I feel as if now that we are all aware that the red jacket brings some sort of oomph to the Indiana fever, I feel like now the mystique of it is gonna dissipate. And I don't wanna be like that, but I feel like it might actually have jinxed them now that it's been called out.
- [54:49]
Ben Pickman
Out.
- [54:49]
Zena Kada
We'll see.
- [54:50]
Hannah Van Biber
That is how jinxes work. So I think you could be right. Zena. Why did we bring it up? We've ruined it. But let's say. Let's say if she did wear it, I'm gonna go with if she wears red. I really want to believe that they have a better shot. Maybe it's just like they cover the point spread. They still lose, but they play a better game. I don't know. That's kind of boring, I guess.
- [55:12]
Ben Pickman
The other one. Yeah, it could certainly happen. I think it's something we're going to watch for now. The other one, Asia Wilson. Now, I don't have a stat here in terms of metrics, so I should have. But, you know, we only have so much time to prepare for this show is there was this whole big thing last year that if Asia Wilson wore a crispy white T shirt, then she was going to go off because she had said to reporters that, like, basically she has to want to put on nice clothes or fashionable clothes. And so when she wears the crispy white tee, she's just focused on getting a win. So Asia Wilson shows up Tuesday in a crispy white tee. Do we like Las Vegas chances more? Do we like it less?
- [55:50]
Zena Kada
I like em more. I like em more. Asia Wilson is locked in when she wears that white T shirt. She's not with the frills. She's not with the outside noise. She is in on her game. So I actually really, really like their. Their odds here. I want to go really quickly back because Asia's white tea just made me think of Caitlyn's Air Force ones, the black Air Force ones. And I feel like if we get a combo. Let's make this prop bet. If we get a combo of the red jacket with the black Air Force ones, Indiana might do some things Might go to overtime. We don't know.
- [56:30]
Hannah Van Biber
Are the Air Force ones or the white T shirt more powerful?
- [56:33]
Zena Kada
Ooh. See, I think it's the combination with the red jacket, right? But. But let's just be real. Asia in a white T shirt. I'm thinking 30 points.
- [56:41]
Hannah Van Biber
I think that's just. That's the MVP locked in. That's her Sunday red. I feel like.
- [56:46]
Zena Kada
Watch out. I like it.
- [56:49]
Ben Pickman
I like that you brought up the black Air Force ones because that was going to be our third round, but now we're just talking about a same game parlay, Hannah, between a red jacket and some black sneakers. So what do we think the odds would be there? How much would they really swing?
- [57:02]
Hannah Van Biber
Okay, the power of the combo could. Could swing me on this. If they are showing they're that locked in, I don't know. Maybe we should move. Move the fever a little closer.
- [57:12]
Zena Kada
You know what I didn't pay attention to? And I wonder if, like, if there is something to be said about how Chloe, Caitlin, and Sophie sit, right? Cause they usually sit in a three, some, like, in the middle of the bench. Does that positioning affect anything versus, like, Sydney and Aerie being a little bit further closer? I don't know. Or Demaris, like, maybe the sitting of how they, you know, show up on the bench. Because the bench squad is a big thing for the Indiana Fever, too. I'm just coming up with prop bets at this point.
- [57:40]
Hannah Van Biber
I think we need to get it on the screen and do a diagram of everyone sitting.
- [57:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah.
- [57:45]
Hannah Van Biber
X's and O's.
- [57:46]
Zena Kada
Yeah, we'll see. What else you got for us, Ben?
- [57:48]
Ben Pickman
No, that was it. I mean, those were the three big ones. The shoes, the two crispy teas, and the jackets. I mean, what else? What else is there?
- [57:55]
Zena Kada
So, I mean, for me, for. We've made up a lot of the Indiana ones, but my favorite one would have to be Bam. Bam.
- [58:01]
Hannah Van Biber
I like that one.
- [58:02]
Zena Kada
If he's in the audience, I think he might have a power of the white tea as well. I feel like he might have that pull.
- [58:09]
Hannah Van Biber
Would that one just go over on all of Asia's prop bets? She's gonna go over if he's in the audience. I like that. I like betting on vibes. Don't take my advice, but vibes are great.
- [58:21]
Zena Kada
There you go. Well, Hannah, thank you so much for joining us. We definitely will have you back. We're gonna have to go even deeper into the sports betting world, because I still have a lot that I need to learn. But those tips were very, very helpful guys. That is all we you today. We will be back in your feeds on Friday to preview game one of the Finals. Cannot believe we're here. And remember guys, our cadence is switching up a little bit for the finals. We'll be dropping an episode the morning after every game so be ready. Make sure you are subscribed so you don't miss everything or anything. There's gonna be a preview pod on Friday and then a reaction pod on Saturday after the morning after game one. Appreciate all your comments. Been seeing your DMs folks on the same page with me wanting a competitive game they did get from the Minnesota Links and the Mercury. Ultimately the Mercury finding their way back into the finals. But we just appreciate you guys reaching out. All the emails, we read them, we love them. Keep interacting and also make sure to go over to the Yahoo Sports hub. More content over there. Sports.yahoo.com womens-sports on behalf of the Athletic Hannah Van Biber, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman, I'm Zena Kaeda. Thank you for listening. We will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our Video editor. Shannon Ryan is Managing Editor of Women's Basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our Head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio Operations. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights and Support available@AmazonBusiness.com hi, I'm Madupa Akinola from TED Business and I'm here to talk.
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Sabrina Merchant
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