← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Chris Koclanes is Building Dallas Wings' new foundation
00:41:24
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- [00:00]
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- [04:52]
Zena Keda
For the athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to another special edition of the Athletic All Access where we tap in with the most influential voices around the world of women's hoops. Now, before we dive in, I gotta do my job and make sure that you're subscribed to this podcast, the Athletic Women's Basketball show, wherever you get your pots. To ensure you don't miss out on conversations like the one you're about to hear for today's episode, we are continuing our chats with the new WNBA coaches hired this offseason. If you didn't know there were some vacancies. You may have been living under a rock, but don't worry, we'll catch you up. At the end of the 2024 season, seven of the 12 active teams in the WNBA parted ways with their head coaches. Yes, there's 13 now, thanks to the Golden State Valkyries. But last season's active teams got rid of seven coaches, six teams switched out their GM and four teams changed out both. Since then, all of the coaching vacancies have been filled with the latest being our next guest. Chris Kahlanis is the newest head coach of the Dallas Wings, replacing Latricia Trammell. He most recently served as an assistant coach with the USC Trojans, so you might have recognized him sitting on the courtside with juju Watkins and Crew out in la. And he brought his fervor for defense to USC after spending time in the WNBA with the Connecticut sun under Kurt Miller and then most recently in 2023 as a defensive coordinator with the Los Angeles Sparks, also under Kurt Miller. He helped the sun reach the Finals in 2019 and 2022, as well as the WNBA semifinals in 2020 and 2021. That's a lot of winning over four years, so he knows a little bit about that, which will be necessary for the wings, who finished 9 and 31 last season, the second to last record in the W. But good news, the wings have the 2025 number one draft pick on the way. Let's hear more from the newest Wings coach, Sabrina Ben, take it away.
- [07:16]
Sabrina Ben
Thanks Zena. As you mentioned, we are joined by Chris Koklanis, the new head coach of the Dallas Wings. We'll talk all things Wings and WNBA with Chris, but Chris, like me, grew up in the New York City area and we'll be sure to ask him about his Westchester county playing days as he was once listed as a top newcomer for his high school team, the Pelham Pelicans. We'll get into that part of his journey a little bit later. But Chris, we wanted to start here. You went to ODU and you graduated with a degree in finance and even did some financial advisor work in New York City for a little bit after graduation. Just how did you then get into coaching? What inspired you to get into women's basketball more broadly?
- [07:54]
Chris Koklanis
So I grew up around it. It's always been a part of my roots and in my blood. So I grew up with four older sisters who all played everything but a lot of basketball, so grew up following them around to AU tournaments. One of my sisters went on, played Division 1 at Richmond and So that's where it kind of started. I grew up around it. My mother as well, she was our CYO coordinator in Westchester for 30 years. So it's just kind of what I grew up around now. I went to Old Dominion. Rich history. Women's basketball was there for Wendy Larry's last couple of years, but it got such a rich history, awesome women's basketball. And so was lucky enough to be around that while at Old Dominion. And funny enough, my sister ended up getting an assistant coaching job at Old Dominion while I was a student there. So that was kind of my first tie and in. So she's an assistant coach now. I start practicing and you know, helping with the managers and just being around that program more. So that was my first insights to. Oh, okay. Like you could. This is a lifestyle. Like you could do this for a living. This is an option. So that was my first kind of real exposure to it. Meanwhile, you know, I'm studying finance. I'm having dreams of wearing a suit every day and making it big and making all sorts of money on Wall Street. So I tried that. I graduated and moved into the city and tried doing that and quickly realized that that wasn't what I wanted. And happiness isn't about money and there's so much more to life. So quickly pivoted and was, you know, from there the journey that started and has led me to where I am now began and was super lucky to just have some contacts and have a network already and then lucky enough to be given opportunities and just, you know, take one step at a time. And it just kind of grew from there. So that's kind of the base intro. Long winded. I apologize.
- [10:07]
Sabrina Ben
No, that is okay. And we should say that your sister who played at Richmond was what, a three year captain at Richmond, I think graduated as their all time assist leader like you, and went on to be the head coach at Dartmouth for a while. You kind of under undersold her, her resume a little bit.
- [10:23]
Chris Koklanis
She's. She's big time. We're pretty humble, but she's. She's big time. And I grew up just idolizing her. And so she's my mentor, just trying to follow in her footsteps. She definitely kind of laid the path for me. So extremely grateful to have that kind of presence in my life and the fact that it's my sister, you know.
- [10:44]
Sabrina Ben
Yeah. What were some of those things? I mean, you mentioned her as a mentor. Obviously you've had a number of mentors. Kurt Miller, Lindsey Gottlieb. We'll talk about Some of the things you learned from them, too. But from your sister, what were some of the things about coaching, about team building, about culture building that you kind of learned from her, or what did she instill upon you as you take on this next opportunity?
- [11:07]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah, well, I think, number one, it start. It's always been with her. When you meet her, she's tiny, so she was always up against it her whole life. You know the saying, right? It's not the size of the dog of the fight, size of the fight, the dog. So, you know, she was overlooked constantly. Had to prove herself just with being so small. So I learned that first off, that it's not the size of the dog in the fight, the size of the fight in the dog. And then she just has this gift. She has a gift of connecting with people and leading and developing people, and so to be able to be around her. When she first got her first head coaching opportunity at Dartmouth, I was in between jobs as well. And so I was lucky enough to go up there and spend the first three months with her and got to, you know, got some firsthand insight into watching her build her staff and watching her really create something from the ground up and just, you know, talking. Talk about building a foundation to create something strong so, you know, was able to see that and learn that from her. And it all starts with people, right? It's all. It's, you know, person over player. It's all about people. It's all about connection. It's all about care and communication. You know, if you can. If you can get that right and really be intentional about that, you know, then we can start talking basketball and we can start, you know, having other conversations and strategy and X's and O's. But it all definitely starts, you know, at the person at our core at that level. So, yeah, lucky to have someone like that in my life.
- [12:52]
E
You mentioned the word foundation, and you obviously have this unique opportunity here with Dallas to not necessarily build from the ground up, because you have Arike there. You have Satu. You know, a lot of pieces there. But just coming in this season with all of the nonsense that could happen in WNB in 2026, like, what trying to. What kind of foundation are you trying to build this year?
- [13:14]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's an opportunity to just hit reset, right? Again, we're not. They've had success, right? They've been in the playoffs. They were in a semifinal very recently. Like, they've. They've experienced success, so not rebuilding anything, just hitting Reset here and seeing, okay, what can we do to, to really establish ourselves here in 25 so that we are prepared and positioned to, to take advantage of all the newness and the craziness that's coming at US in 26. So I think it's great here in Dallas. So I'm excited about this opportunity. So one for me to be able to come in here and establish that foundation, right? All going to start with our culture and getting buy in from these players and starting with me from the top and trickling down to the staff that I hire and the people that I surround myself with to bring out the best in me, but ultimately to bring out the best in our players. So it starts with us modeling the way for them and then ultimately empowering them and collaborating with them because we know the best, the best locker rooms, the best teams are all player led, player patrolled. You know, when they really embody it all and they hold each other accountable, that's when the special stuff can really happen. Um, so that kind of foundation and it's not going to be easy, but we'll be intentional about it, we'll be consistent about it and we'll take it step by step and then the opportunity with Dallas here again. Dallas is very aware of what's coming and I've been so impressed with the support and the investment for the player experience. Right. Like they are what these players deserve. Dallas is going to give them in more. You're seeing it. Practice facility coming on board next summer. New arena coming on board the following summer. It's all, it's all coming, it's happening. And now in the immediacy though, what they're doing just on a day to day basis with the player experience to make it the best they can. As we wait for the practice facility for the new arena is just. They're putting their money where their mouth is and they're giving these players everything they deserve. So it's fun to be a part of that when you don't have to, you know, you have all that support. So it will help me in my position.
- [15:48]
Sabrina Ben
You mentioned the player experience so often. I think historically people have looked at the college experience that players have as being superior to that of when they enter the wnba. And I think so often historically that is sometimes why a lot of coaches do not go from college to the pros. Because, you know, some of the facilities, some of the travel, a lot of that stuff, sometimes the money is different or viewed lesser or a step down, I guess. I'm sure there's a lot you learned from your year and a half at usc, but are there parts about the player experience there or, you know, other things that you're kind of taking with you? Obviously you had a long time as an assistant in Connecticut and then la, and I'm sure that's formative, too, but what from the college level are you kind of taking with you and kind of bringing to Dallas in this next step in your career?
- [16:42]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah, I think more than anything, it's. It's, you know, it's the. It's the leaders and the mentors that I was lucky enough to be around at the college level, was just lucky to be around some. Some really good coaches all through my career with. With Lindsey, most recently at usc. And so I think, like, just with the immediate experience from usc, with the fast changing college landscape and being around somebody like, like Lindsey and watching her navigate it helped. Helped me just to like her, her flexibility and adapt. It's all about your mindset with it. Right. You hear lots of people right now in the college game. Everyone's frustrated, everyone's complaining. Right. It's just not what it was. But Lindsey's approach is, okay, well, this is what it is. So what are we doing to leverage it? How are we using it as a competitive advantage? So I really admired that and respected that. Again, like, okay, like, you could. You could waste time complaining about it, but shift your mindset. How do you use it as a benefit to you? So just that general way of thinking, trying to be forward thinking and, you know, view everything as an opportunity, more so than, you know, feeling sorry for yourself or wishing things were different, that I think that most immediately, from my experience at USC and then again just from all my previous stops, lucky enough to be around coaches who have coached for a really long time, and just watching them and their leadership styles on and off the floor and how they create culture and build teams is. There's a lot there. And what I'm excited about is using all of that. Right. When you're an assistant, you take things you like, things you don't like, things that are you in a sense, and things that aren't. And now my challenge and my opportunity and what I'm excited about is now you make it your own. Like, you know, so you stay true to yourself, you stay authentic to yourself, have all these great experiences, and now I get to create it for myself. So that's what I'm looking forward to.
- [18:59]
E
We've heard your name, like, you know, mentioned around the WNBA as, like, a Next possible head coach for a little while now. And I'm wondering, you personally, when did you realize that you were ready to take the next step as a head coach, given all of your experience as an assistant?
- [19:12]
Chris Koklanis
Early on, like, when I was super young, getting into it, I feel like you have all these, like, ambitions, and you're like, I want to be a head coach. Like, I'm just going to grind and jump from here to there and here to there because I want to be a head coach. And so I'd be lying if that, like, wasn't one of my first thoughts of, I'm going to get into the business and quickly become a head coach. And then. And then I quickly realized, like, pump the brakes, like, you have no idea what you're doing. So just chill and be where you're at and serve those people and help make them better and learn and learn and be a sponge, and then who knows what can happen? So I quickly shifted that early on in my career and really have tried to remain true to that rather than seeking the next stepping stone, trying to be present where I was at and get everything I could out of that while focusing on the players, the staff, the people around me and how I could make their lives easier, make them better. And, you know, what tends to happen is you focus on those kind of things, and the rest kind of takes care of itself. So, again, I go back to just being lucky and grateful that right place, right time, right people, and then the opportunities just kind of come. If you trust it and you do it the right way and you treat people the right way, and you never know what can happen. So here we are.
- [20:38]
E
Speaking of right place, right time, it feels like you getting back into the college game the last couple years and spending that time at USC with Lindsey and just the incredible team they have at USC was probably really important for where you've ended up now. And I'm wondering, after spending so much time in the wnba, what motivated you to want to go back to USC and get that experience?
- [20:56]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah, so I was looking for something different. I think this speaks to which I'm sure you guys are going to ask, but my relationship with Kurt, we have an incredible relationship, right? He gave me my first opportunity in the WNBA and was able to work alongside him for eight years and learned so much. And at the same time, you know, after that eighth season, the two of us were just kind of talking and, like, okay, like, what. What do you think you need next? Like, what is it for you that can continue to help you and Challenge you and stretch you in ways. So we were able to have that kind of open, honest conversation that I think it was time for just a different voice. As I continued to grow and figuring out who I am in this space and what kind of head coach I'm going to be, that it was just time for a different voice, for a time being. And he was extremely supportive of that. And so right time, right place, all of a sudden we're there in LA and SC comes with an opportunity. And Kurt was extremely supportive, like, yeah, go like, see how Lindsey does it. She's got all these great experiences, all her time in college and then in the NBA. So it was luck. And I was excited to go back to the college level, too. You have these perceptions working with pros. I love it. I love the partnership. I love the collaboration. I love that aspect of it. There's so much power there. And then collegiately, you know, is it. It can be more of, you know, these kids are young, they're coming out of high school, it's more mentoring, more just kind of molding and helping. And it could be hand holding at times. And, you know, you're helping them navigate really important moments and years of their life. And so there was a part of me that was excited about that, like, okay, can I. Maybe I can have like a bigger impact on their lives and really help mold and help them navigate. So for those kind of reasons, I was excited to jump back into the college game. And then just I was there, I was loving it. And then, you know, things happen and just couldn't be more grateful for where I'm sitting right now and the opportunity that's ahead of me right now.
- [23:28]
Sabrina Ben
Use the word luck in kind of talking about that response. And I want to talk about a day in which luck struck the Dallas Wings on lottery night, lottery afternoon. And I might be totally wrong here, so feel free to clarify me if so. But if I remember, Kurt, who had just started with Dallas at that time, could not make his way to Dallas because of some kind of weather issues, I want to say. And I vaguely remember him taking his press conference after winning the lottery from a USC office. Is that all correct, Chris? Right now?
- [24:05]
Chris Koklanis
It was. Well, so it wasn't my office. It was, you know who it was? It was Steve Smith, one of our, you know, longtime colleagues and friends. But it was that he was in la, so it was funny, you know, he was in la, Dallas gets that number one pick, and he's struggling to contain himself. But funny enough.
- [24:28]
Sabrina Ben
And so what was going Were you with him watching the lottery at that time? What was kind of your reaction as you see Dallas win the lottery? If you're there and Kurt is present and it's all happening in the USC facility?
- [24:40]
Chris Koklanis
It's such a cool moment and was just so happy for him. Just, you know, someone who, I'm just so excited for him in this new position. We can talk more about that. But, you know, he. For someone who works as hard as he works and someone who gives so much to this game and has been around and has impacted and then to. To watch him get an opportunity and then to see the ball come up the way it did, it just felt good. It was just like, okay, like there's, you know, there's a. There's something else out there that's like, okay, this is the right. This was the right for him. People are on his side. Like, good things happen to good people. You do it the right way. Things. Things go your way sometimes. So we're excited that it went that way and the momentum that that brings with the number one overall pick. And so, yeah, there's just. We're excited about using that momentum and bottling that up and pouring it into this 2025 season, this foundational season, and then to see where it can propel us then in the future. So exciting times here in Dallas, for sure.
- [25:57]
Sabrina Ben
Right? Luck fade. All kind of coming together from that December evening to you getting this job and what is ahead for the franchise. You know, obviously, I'm sure there's a lot you learn from Kurt, and Kurt is clearly one of your mentors, someone you spoke about, that closeness to. But what is. Maybe challenge isn't the right word, but how do you now kind of, kind of become your own coach or create your own imprint on a franchise knowing that, you know, Kurt is the general manager and. But was also an accomplished coach and is an accomplished coach. How do you kind of navigate that dynamic for yourself as a young first time head coach? However you kind of thinking about it and how should we think about that?
- [26:37]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah, I'm really excited. So, number one, to have the kind of support that I have in the front office right now with Kurt and Travis and Jasmine Thomas is something that isn't always there. So that support is going to be great. Now as for me now, you know, becoming my own person. Right. Again, like, I understand it, right. I worked for him for eight years. It's easy to be attached, you know, like, okay, there's Kurt, there's Chris, there's Kurt, there's Chris. So, and I'm so grateful for all those years and the ability to have been alongside him and compete for championships and to be put in opportunities and positions in huddles in the locker room. Just like, you know, he empowered me. He gave me all these opportunities to test and now be prepared to now do it my own way and be my own person. So I'm lucky to have that support. And then now for me, it's all, you can't fake it. So I need to be true to myself, right? Authentic, genuine with who I am. And I'm very different than Kurt. We share a lot of the same philosophies and beliefs and I've learned so much about what, you know, how, how he has found success and the pieces of that that I believe I am representative of and want to continue and at the same time, things that aren't really me that I will do differently and you know, can we still find success in different ways. So for me it's, it's. I look at it as such a positive thing and our relationship again from when I left in LA to SC only improved. Like it only improved. And now to be able to work alongside him and have him there supporting me as with all his experience as another sounding board is great.
- [28:44]
E
Is he going to give you credit for those two interim head coaching wins now or do those still belong on Kurt Miller's record?
- [28:51]
Chris Koklanis
Right. I coached him, right. He, he gets them on it. On his record though. And it was. Well, no, I think I'm. Am I one and two? I think I only won one.
- [29:01]
E
Oh, I thought you had to. My bad.
- [29:03]
Chris Koklanis
No, no, no, all good. But it's funny, like, those experiences were incredible and I say like through those three games I kind of got to experience the Spectrum. And again, there's all sorts of things that as a first time head coach, like you're going to experience and learn and the field will develop. But in those three games that I got to coach, it was the one that we won. We beat Washington, tie game, under five minutes, pulled away in winning time. So close game, was able to win it. We lost at Chicago on a buzzer beater. Close game. Down the stretch, got to draw up a play, the tide descended to overtime and then we went to Vegas and we got blown out. So like I got to experience a little bit of, of all those emotions which gave me a taste of it. So there's again, there's definitely, you know, I'm going to lean on all my past experiences, all my prior relationships and use them and Coach what I know and then, you know, figure out the rest. Hire good people, lean on them and leverage the experts around me and we'll do our best to put, put our players in, in the best positions to have success.
- [30:14]
Sabrina Ben
You mentioned some of your past experiences. As we start to wind down in this conversation, I want to ask about two past experiences and see if you've also drawn from them. I was reading your bio and it seems like you do have some head coaching experience of an AAU team, the Hooperstown Huskies in 2011, I believe. A Westchester county based AAU team, I guess. Just tell us about coaching that team. Is there anything you can learn from that? And, and what would you tell kind of your, your 2011 self about coaching that you now know in the present day?
- [30:46]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah, that was an incredible experience. Me and my best friend who is a college Hooper, we did that together. And it's funny, I'm still very close with some players on those team. So like when they found out I got this opportunity, I have text messages from some of those players that I coach those seventh grade boys back in, back in 2011. So it's just awesome that way. And so I think that speaks to relationships, right? Like again people, first person over player, show them that you care for them and build that as genuinely and as authentically as you can. And those are longer lasting than you know, than the day to day, the competition, the games. So there's more to it than hoop. And I think some of that has come out from that experience.
- [31:39]
Sabrina Ben
One other blast from the past anecdote we're going to ask you about. We were doing some research for this and we were going back and reading some old journal news articles from your playing days in White Plains and you in one story as a high school player, you're wearing number 23, I guess one. Were you a LeBron? Is that a LeBron 23 homage or someone else? Maya Moore, I guess she's, she's not playing yet at the highest level. Who's the 23 for? I guess is the first part of the question.
- [32:05]
Chris Koklanis
You know, it's funny is I think it's, I think we had like new uniforms our senior year and they like I was usually number 10 and then I think like number 10 was only in like an XL so like I had to wear 23 because that was the jersey that was small. It was something like that. It wasn't an intentional decision. The jersey number. But funny enough with, with the high school days is. So again, growing up in Westchester, we played all Season to hopefully get the opportunity to play at the Westchester County Center. So I say that in. Earlier in the league, when the Liberty for a couple of years played there, we would go and play there. And it, you know, a WNBA team shouldn't have been playing there. Like, that's. That's not. And we've come a long way, and it's. The growth has been great and incredible, but for me, it was the best. I'm like, are you guys kidding me? I grew up just hoping that I would get to play on this court. Like, this is the best thing ever. Like, so we would go back and play at the County Center. Our players would be miserable, and I would just be there, like, soaking it all up. Just too funny. Westchester roots.
- [33:24]
Sabrina Ben
That's amazing. And we should say that in this one of the stories we read, you described yourself as a pass and play guy. I guess. Could you elaborate a little bit on what that means and your scouting report and maybe how teams defended you back then?
- [33:38]
Chris Koklanis
I couldn't score, period. I was little, too. I could dribble. I could get to anywhere on the floor with my dribble. And I was lucky enough to have really good players around me, so I just spread the ball around. So got us into stuff, got the ball where it needed to go. I knew my role. I knew my role and tried to do it to the best of my ability. So pass, pass first, pass second, pass third. Just keep. Keep moving that ball to. To the better players on the team.
- [34:08]
E
So, yeah, we got to check a few box scores. And you were not lying about the. The not scoring part of it.
- [34:15]
Chris Koklanis
Hey, there's different roles. Everyone's got a role to play.
- [34:18]
E
Just speaking of different roles, you know, I guess we can just end here, you know, like, you've had all of these opportunities throughout your basketball career and been in all these different places to coach. Just what excites you about Dallas right now? Like, why do you feel like this is the place where you're supposed to be in 2025?
- [34:32]
Chris Koklanis
Sort of. So what I spoke to before, excitement about the organization as a whole and the commitment to give these players what they deserve, to be able to see that and feel that now that I'm here is something that's real. So to be able to have that support organizationally and then front office, to be able to have that support with Kurt Travis, Jazz, that belief there. And then now, you know, you have someone like Urike, who is arguably the best scorer in the league, right? The first fastest player to 4,000 points. I believe there's no questioning her ability to score the ball. And so, you know, you join her in a part of her career where she's, you know, ready to take another step and become a true leader and really let everyone know that Dallas is for real and we want to create something that's sustainable and be competing for championships for a long time to come. And you add that number one pick gives you a little more energy and momentum. So just now's the time, right? Now's the time for Dallas. It's an exciting time to be here. I'm grateful that I can be a part of this and really do everything that I can. Right the responsibility that I have to help build this foundation and create something that will allow us to experience sustained success in the future as we navigate all that's coming next year and on.
- [36:00]
Sabrina Ben
I think that is why, Chris, as we wrap this up, so many people in Dallas are excited around the league around college basketball are excited for your hire. So many people from USC and I guess all the way back to, you know, your sister and those at the Hooperstown Huskies are also excited. So we appreciate you making a little bit of time and sharing some stories, and we look forward to seeing how it all plays out in just a couple months. We'll be here before we all know it, so thanks for joining the Athletic Women's Basketball Show.
- [36:28]
Chris Koklanis
Awesome. Thank you both. Appreciate you.
- [36:31]
Sabrina Ben
Just a quick editor's note before the next part of this conversation. Sabrina and I recorded it before. Satus Abli told reporters on Thursday that she is working with the Wings to find her next WNBA home. The unrestricted free agent said explicitly, quote, I've played my last game in Dallas. Sable added that she's excited for free agency. She said she's still in good communication with the team. We'll have more on her comments and what's next for her in future episodes. But for now, here's what Sabrina and I thought about Dallas's future. So, Sabrina, we've just learned a lot about Chris. From his time playing, learning from his sister Belle to being the head coach of the Hooperstown Huskies, to what he learned from his time on under Kurt Miller at the sun to usc, to now obviously being the head coach at the Dallas Wings. I guess big picture first and foremost, kind of. What did you take away from our conversation that informs how you look at the Wings going forward?
- [37:28]
E
I just appreciate that Chris is acknowledging all of the newness, in his words, that is coming to the WNBA and realizing that this is sort of a transitional year, like A different kind of year in terms of being a head coach where you have to acknowledge that, yes, we can try to set ourselves up for success in this season, but like, it's going to be a very different picture going forward. And I'm just so personally fascinated about what that's going to look like for the WNBA in the years to come. So for him to, you know, admit that, like, yeah, we have to reset and try to build something sustained, I thought was pretty interesting.
- [37:58]
Sabrina Ben
And we should say like Dallas, just for context, for those who do not know, they currently play out in Arlington right now, but there are plans in, I guess after this season to move the team into an arena in downtown, in town, downtown Dallas. You know, they're targeting the start of the 2026 season both for that move and to move into a new practice facility. The Dallas Memorial Auditorium is undergoing a reservation renovation rather, and that will serve as their home arena kind of going forward in their next era. And it is a franchise like that has, you know, also received a boom in terms of ownership. They sold a stake, I want to say it was 2/2% stakes this year that were valued at kind of a record amount. I want to say $208 million valuation at the 2, you know, half percent stake. So, you know, a lot of change going on right now in the Dallas Wings organization. But it does seem like one of the things he said that you also just pointed out is like the stability, the building towards a future, the wanting to build a strong foundation that, you know, so often I think in the WNBA right now, teams are going now, now, now like win right away. And I think Dallas recognizes, kind of seems like where they stand in the, the general ecosystem and want to achieve sustained success in a way that they, they have not or had that stability in recent years.
- [39:20]
E
I also thought it was interesting that when he was talking about what excites him in Dallas, it was Arique and the number one pick and the name Satu Sabali did not come up, which for reference, she is an unrestricted free agent. But the Wings have the opportunity to core her, which means if she wanted to go somewhere else, like it would have to be via sign and trade or you know, something else that the Wings have control over. So that her name didn't arise is just, just a little interesting to me because, you know, she's a former all WNBA player, obviously one of the best and brightest talents in the wnba. So just something to keep an eye on, you know, like what her future is with the Wings going forward.
- [39:55]
Sabrina Ben
And we should say, like, not totally out of the ordinary for him not to do so. Like, when we had Tyler Marsh on this show earlier this fall, shortly after he got hired, we had Tyler about Kennedy Carter, and he was kind of talking about Kennedy and saying that I'm focused kind of on the players who we currently have signed so that a new coach, an incoming coach would talk about, you know, the players that they have under contract. Specifically, like, not exactly an anomaly, but you're certainly right. Like what happens with Satus Abali this off season, I think is, you know, we've kind of talked about it. Like that is now question number one for the Dallas Wings as they move forward, because she is, is one of the best players in the league, not that far removed, as you said, from a first team all WNBA season, and is the kind of player that, you know, if they have her on the roster next to Enrique and the number one pick, like that trio, that core looks a whole lot better than if you take someone like her. Take someone like her off of it.
- [40:48]
E
Absolutely. We didn't get too much into like the actual style of play that he's going to have with Dallas and I think that was kind of intentional because just with all the questions in terms of personnel, like, it's. It's just hard to know how he's going to fix his style with how Dallas wants to play based on who they have available. So. But I do think given all of his time with Kurt, I am interested to see how he deviates, you know, from the way they ran things in Connecticut. I mean, I think even Kurt Miller tried to evolve in his philosophies with how they played with the Sparks. It was challenging because of all of the health related absences in Los Angeles. But I do wonder, having spent time with Lindsey Gottlieb and getting sort of a 101 into like Lindsay's spacing principles and like what she picked up from the Cleveland Cavalier is like how he runs the system in Dallas is something that I'm excited to see. But I also do understand that that's like heavily personnel based and thus something we can get into later when rosters are closer to being finalized.
- [41:46]
Sabrina Ben
But we should say like learning under Lindsey Gottlieb and someone who is. Her resume speaks for itself to someone who's made a Final Four in college, who was, you know, on an NBA staff with the Cleveland Cavaliers, like working with the best players in men's basketball as well to being, you know, so highly regarded for her basketball acumen as a College coach as well. Like, surely that is going to serve him well. And we should say too, that, you know, Chris kind of in past off seasons has always been a name that we have heard when we've asked about who that has not been. A WNBA head coach would make a really good head coach. I know when we did, you and I, Sabrina, our GM survey at the end of the 2023 season, like, Chris was one of the two names we heard most often from executives when they were asked about their list of prospective candidates. And last year our colleague Chantelle Jennings on the college side did a bunch of reporting about, you know, names of college assistant coaches who would make for really good head coaches. And Chris made that list as well. It's for some of the things he talked about, being a communicator, the focus on player development, how he connects with players and helps them grow. His defensive and kind of basketball acumen is always highly regarded. And I think in Connecticut, especially towards the end of his time there, Kurt gave him a lot of autonomy. And I think everyone is kind of excited to see how that translates now that, that he is kind of calling the shots, that Chris is calling the shots as a first time head coach too.
- [43:07]
Chris Koklanis
Yeah.
- [43:07]
E
And I'm glad he acknowledged that, like, he kind of needed to get away from Kurt for a little bit. Right. Like, that was part of the impetus of going to uic, just to separate himself. Like the way he said it was always Kurt and Chris. Kurt and Chris obviously didn't last very long. Right. Like he was with the Sparks as recently as the end of the 2023 season. And to reunite with Kurt, like, clearly shows that the. There's a real bond there. And like when Kurt Miller became the gm, I think it became increasingly likely that Chris would at least be considered for this job if not hired altogether. So lovely to have a mentor who's always looking out for you like that. But also like, I'm glad they had a little bit of space for him to figure out how he wants to approach this job as his own head coach.
- [43:43]
Sabrina Ben
And we should say too, he mentioned Jasmine Thomas. Jasmine Thomas had been promoted to an assistant GM of the Dallas Wings this offseason after kind of taking a. A front office hybrid role with the franchise last year, I guess is the easiest way to say it. Funny enough. Jasmine Thomas, who, you know, longtime WNBA player who was with the Connecticut sun and then followed Kurt Miller, I guess, from the sun to the Sparks. Jasmine was also quoted. If you do some research on Kurt's bio on the USC Website like Jasmine Thomas is the player quote, kind of talking about Chris, like there is real connection and continuity and comfort there. And I think he mentioned that word in our conversation. Alignment. That is something that I think alignment and stability often go hand in hand in professional sports. And I think that is something that clearly is an intentional focus heading into this season and this new era of the Dallas Wings.
- [44:34]
E
Yeah, you think about so many of the hirings and firings that took place this offseason and a lot of the coaches that ended up losing their jobs, like there wasn't that alignment.
- [44:41]
Sabrina Ben
Right.
- [44:42]
E
They were either hired by previous GMs or, you know, there was a different direction that the front office wanted to take. And for him to be so lockstep with not just Kurt, but Jasmine Thomas and everything that Dallas is doing, I think sets him up well. You know, like that's what you are rooting for for young coaches is for them to be in a position to succeed. And not everybody gets like this level of buy in and support right away. So I think just for him to have landed here, he's personally very lucky. And I just hope that, you know, Dallas, like we've seen, has basically gone through coaches every two seasons and he kept using the word sustained over and over again. And you don't get that with a coach every two seasons. So you'd hope that alignment leads to a little bit longer of a Runway for Chris.
- [45:23]
Sabrina Ben
Exactly. But I guess that is all stuff that we will see and will play itself out later this spring and into the summer, I guess. Next up on the docket, Sabrina, we both are going to continue to talk about the college season, but our next week, also unrivaled, begins. And so the WNBA world, the professional game, will focus itself on a new league. So many people from the WNBA will be heading down to Miami to I think experience the opening weekend in the early part of the season. And we will have more conversations on this podcast about the college game, but also unrivaled too. I think we're going to bring you some preview stories and preview interviews on that league next week as well. So, Sabrina, great chatting with you as always. Great chatting with Chris to learn about the Dallas Wings. And we look forward to talking to everyone next week on the Athletic Women's Basketball show.
- [46:15]
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Chris Koklanis
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