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- [00:01]
Advertiser 1
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- [01:20]
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- [01:42]
Zena Keda
There to watch em.
- [01:43]
Advertiser 2
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- [02:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Love.
- [02:51]
Advertiser 3
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- [04:56]
Zena Keda
For the athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. What's up everyone? Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. I cannot wait for today's conversation. Not because we're going to be talking about the WNBA playoff games that happen on Wednesday night. I hope you're all awake. I know that many of you may have fallen asleep by the time that the score differential got past 20. Yeah, it was some tough games to watch on Wednesday. Number one seeded Las Vegas Aces and number three seeded Connecticut sun did exactly what they're supposed to do in those positions. They took care of business. I just don't think that anyone predicted that they would take care of business to the degree that they did. Aces winning 87 to 59. Connecticut sun beating the Lynx 90 to 60. We're going to talk to Sabrina Merchant, national WNBA writer for the Athletic, about those games and what adjustments essentially that she expects them to make so they have a better showing in Game two. But then we're gonna put that to the side. Cause we've got even a cooler conversation to have with Sabrina, and that is around her most recent article talking about the sisterhood in the W. Namely the sisterhood from the South Carolina Gamecocks. Of course, you've seen it. The best players in the league as of late have been the South Carolina Gamecocks, and they come from a particular culture and a particular machine that is churning out elite players. So we're gonna talk about what that sisterhood is like, what that looks like, and also, you know, that's cultivating it or helping to cultivate it. Dawn Staley but first things first. Playoffs. Sabrina mentioned in our playoff preview show that she wasn't excited by the matchups, and that proved correct. Sabrina, what do you think the Lynx and the sky will need to do to make Friday or their next matchup. Excuse me. More entertaining for you?
- [07:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I'm a little bit more excited now, I would say, because, you know, when teams get their butt whooped, I think it really lights a fire under them. You know, I was listening to Cheryl Reed at the end of Link's sun yesterday and she said, we've been knocked down a lot this season. Started the year off 06, managed to find a way to come back, you know, not just make the playoffs or the six seeds. So let's start with the Sky. I would say just because that was the second game we watched, the more recent in my head, but I just didn't think their ball movement was good enough on offense. Like the Aces are so long and quick defensively, especially with Asia Wilson and Kia Stokes in the middle of the paint. Like it's so hard to get action going towards the basket. You really have to get them in rotation. And I just didn't think that there was enough player movement on Chicago side. I didn't think there was enough ball movement. And if you're not going to score with the aces. Like you really don't have a chance because good luck trying to stop them. Like you have to put up enough points to at least make them take the ball out of the basket, you know, not run up against and like an untested defense. So yeah, I would say that's the number one thing from the sky side of things. And then hopefully Atlanta Smith doesn't get three fouls within the first six minutes. Again was a toughie. As far as the links, I mean I, I know that they, they have hope of coming back. Their, their injuries are really coming to bear here. Yeah, you, you really notice the absence of Lindsay Allen in terms of setting up their offense. Even Jessica Shepard in terms of creating those big to big actions that they love to work out of. Their transition defense was really, really bad after the first quarter and they have got to figure out a way to handle those traps. Every time Connecticut sent two towards the ball like it was like they'd never seen a double team before. So many times Alyssa Thomas or you know, Ty Harris or like Natisha Heideman would just pick up the ball like it was just. They were, the links were giving it away to the sun. And when you're making offense that easy for Connecticut, like I just don't see what the hope is. So yeah, take care of the ball better or at least shore up that transition defense. And then I understand like the game plan was to pack the paint and force Connecticut to make threes. I still think that's the right idea, but my goodness, Connecticut shot well. Like maybe put a little bit more pressure on those three point shooters.
- [09:14]
Zena Keda
53% to 20% from three coming out of the Lynx and talking about taking care of the ball. That trap, the first inbound pass trap was something that. It was as if the Lynx had not done any of their research on how hard and how tough they were going to be against them defensively in that trap. It clearly was the thing that disrupted them very early on in their offense. Had Kayla McBride not found her mid range game, I don't think that game would have even been close coming out of the first quarter. So that's that. Looking to Friday's game now we've got the middle seeds going up against each other. The number two New York Liberty against the number seven Washington Mystics. I still think that ranking is not reflective of where they're gonna end up. And then obviously the number four Dallas Wings going up against number five Atlanta Dream. Are you expecting a better show out for Those two games. Yeah.
- [10:13]
Sabrina Merchant
So let's start with Dallas Atlanta. You know, I've been really interested to see how Atlanta is going to contend with Dallas's size, because Dallas, you know, as we mentioned on our preview, biggest front court in the league. Not only do you have Natasha Howard, Satu Sabley and Tier McCowan starting, you've got Kehlani Brown coming off the bench, and they play Kehlani and Tierra McCowan together a lot. So that's two, six, seven girls right next to each other.
- [10:33]
Zena Keda
Wow.
- [10:33]
Sabrina Merchant
It is. It is a big team, especially when you're Atlanta and you're starting center Cheyenne Parker, who's six, three, maybe. And then your starting power forward is Mo Billings, who, you know, that's. This is a game where you miss Nia Coffee. I would love to put Nia Coffee on Satis Abali and see what she could do there, but, you know, she's out for the season, so I just worry about Atlanta getting bullied in that front court. And then, you know, a lot of teams, what they like to do against Dallas is play zone and force them, you know, like, hide the bigs, make the interior passes harder. But then Dallas just kills you on the offensive glass. So it's. It's a toughie. I don't really know what Atlanta's going to try to do defensively. I know they're going to have to push the pace, try to force some turnovers, but Dallas is just so, so big. And this is, I think, the best possible matchup they could have gotten in terms of that, you know, bottom half of the bracket.
- [11:21]
Zena Keda
Yeah.
- [11:21]
Sabrina Merchant
As far as New York and Washington, I do have some excitement about this one. We had a great New York and Washington game on Sunday. Still buzzing about that one. Unfortunately, Shakira Austin has been ruled out for both games in New York, but what that means for Washington is that they're just going to have to go five out. You know, they're going to play Maisha Heinz Allen or Tiana Hawkins at the 5 instead of Shakira, and what that allows them to do is, you know, play a shooter at the center spot. And New York, if there's one thing that kind of gives them trouble, it's when you can space the floor and make all of their players have to defend in space. So I think. I think that's an interesting little wrinkle that the Mystics will be able to throw. I still imagine that the Liberty are going to win, but, God, I hope they give us a good game.
- [12:01]
Zena Keda
Yeah, no, I Think that that's the matchup that everyone's excited about going back to Dallas. I'm expecting gang rebounding. I'm expecting them to throw everyone at the basket to try and minimize the impact that a Tierra McCowan can have. And Kalani Brown, all the size that they have. I mean, particularly Satu Sabalu coming in. She's good for those offensive boards as well. So, yeah, I think Friday will be a better showing for playoffs. But agreed with you, when you get your butt kicked like that, you gotta bounce back. And the way that the Aces were playing with the Sky, I mean, it was like they were doing the tap drill out, like literally doing the tap drill. I was like, yeah, there's gotta be some respect level there. Especially out of Kaliyah Copper. I'll never forget that picture of her standing over Sophie Cunningham in the Sky Mercury series from a few years ago. I mean, that was the definition of put some respect on my name. The way she was looking at her and standing over her. Now that we've discussed the playoffs, it's time for our fun conversation. There were actually two players within the playoffs that did some really great things. Asia Wilson last night being MVP caliber four blocks. She was a machine defensively as well as Ty Harris, who was knocking down shots for the Connecticut Sun. Well, those two women have something in common along with some other really talented players throughout the league. They both went to South Carolina. And Sabrina, you wrote a really cool article that is live right now on the site about the sisterhood and sorority that is South Carolina basketball. I earlier in this season, I think it was when Asia Wilson and Aaliyah Boston first faced off of against each other. And I don't know if you guys remember that matchup, but it got pretty physical in the paint there. And I remember, you know, it was a little bit of bully ball, a little bit of, you know, ripping balls out of each other's hands and things on rebounds. And I was like, oh, how does this play out in the fact that, you know, Asia Wilson's like a big sister to Aaliyah Boston, but she is showing her who is queen in the WNBA right now. She's definitely introducing her and inducting her properly. And so that made me start thinking about the sisterhood of these players that have played together or represent the same college and what it means to play against each other. What inspired you to write this, this article?
- [14:30]
Sabrina Merchant
It's funny, it was another play involving Asia Wilson that made me think of this potential story. It was earlier in the Year, I believe it was Las Vegas's ring night, and the Sparks are in town in Las Vegas, and Zaya Cook has an opportunity to go for a layup, and she just gets obliterated by Asia Wilson just completely. Ball gets knocked out of bounds. Zaya gets, you know, knocked to the floor. I'm talking to her in practice the week afterwards, and she said it was a foul. Like, I talked to dawn afterwards. It was a foul. And I was like, wait, you talked to Don afterwards? Like, Don Staley? And she's like, yeah, of course. Like, who else am I gonna talk to if Asia Wilson blocks me?
- [15:07]
Zena Keda
Right, exactly.
- [15:09]
Sabrina Merchant
So it was so interesting to me that, you know, not only is there this put involving two South Carolina greats, like, two national champions, that they're, you know, Zaya's decision after the play happens is, oh, I need to go to the ultimate arbiter, right? I need to call up the Queen herself, Dawn Staley, to get her on my side. And that was so interesting to me because it's not the first time that Ziya had even mentioned talking to Don that season. Right. On opening night, Dawn Staley is in Los Angeles for the Brittney Griner game, you know, her first game since returning from Russia. And she's on the sidelines courtside, yelling at Zaya for not getting through screens properly. And, you know, Zah's like, I mean, obviously, I'm going to listen to Don. Like, she knows what she's talking about. So, you know, two games very early in the season, understandably, Zya's a rookie, so she has a closer relationship with Don Staley than, you know, some players who are a little bit further in their pro careers. But for her to have these multiple interactions with Staley, I thought, well, she can't be the only player who's going through this. And so it just made me think that not only do these players have South Carolina bonds with one another, it all goes back to dawn because she is the architect of that program. You know, that's the reason why so many Gamecocks are getting put into the league.
- [16:19]
Zena Keda
Right? And I love that you said, you know, the ultimate arbiter, because as you wrote about that, I was like, I can't imagine what practice was like at South Carolina, Right? Like, going back to your coaches, uh, that was a foul, you know, and it coming down to who has the whistle in her hand. And obviously, Dawn Staley, they trust her to be the one to be able to calmly say, this was that. This was that. What I found Interesting that she said she stays out of it sometimes, right. She has to keep the peace and has to say, well, you know, could have been. Right? You gotta keep it. You gotta be even. Especially when it comes to the babies and the veterans.
- [16:55]
Sabrina Merchant
Truly iconic Dawn Staley quote, by the way. I had to ask her to repeat it to make sure I understood what she was saying, right?
- [17:01]
Zena Keda
Exactly. Guys, go read this article. It's so good. And I really think that when I think about Dawn Staley, I'm wondering, you know, is it because we're in this age of media in which we're seeing her at these games, and she is such a dynamic coach, right? Beyond her just being a Hall of Famer kind of player as a WNBA player, then also being an amazing coach at the South Carolina. She's an amazing dresser. She's very vocal. She's very protective of her players. I mean, she is a coach that fits this era of having the spotlight on you. And I'm wondering, is this why it feels like she's so much more involved in comparison to a Gino Oriemma who also goes to games and sits courtside? He was at the Connecticut sun game on Wednesday night. But is it just because she leans into that visibility more?
- [17:58]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, I think this is kind of a moment for South Carolina, right? Like, when we talk about these great college programs, you know, Tennessee has its day and Connecticut has its day. And not to say that, like, either of those programs are suffering by any means right now. Like, you know, Connecticut naturally didn't make the Final Four last year, but, like, it's on a pretty long streak of success.
- [18:15]
Zena Keda
They're good. They're good.
- [18:16]
Sabrina Merchant
It just so happens that South Carolina is the one that we've been talking about because they've made, you know, three Final Fours in the last three years, and they've had, I think, the third most players drafted into the league over the last seven or eight years since Dawn Staley got her first South Carolina player drafted into the wnba. But, yeah, dawn is a very modern coach, Right. Like, she was the Olympic coach in 2021. You know, she is the one who is most vocal in terms of advocating for Brittney Griner. She makes very. And you talk about her fashion, she makes very loud statements like, with what she chooses to wear. Right. In terms of wearing that Griner shirt. She wore a jersey of Benija Laney's mom from Cheney State last year. Just supporting historically black colleges and the women who came before us in terms of NCAA basketball, she is a woman who is made for this type of age. Right. She puts herself out there. She's very funny, very personable on social media. She likes to, you know, have a good time, as opposed to some of the other coaches, like, you know, potentially Gino, who isn't really made for this age, I would say.
- [19:17]
Zena Keda
Yeah, right, right. He's a little bit of, I don't, you know, boomer. Just a little bit. Just a little.
- [19:21]
Sabrina Merchant
He's good at the basketball part of things.
- [19:22]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [19:22]
Sabrina Merchant
But there are. There are other parts of the gig, you know, that Don, I think, more readily embraces. But it all comes back to, like, the South Carolina players wouldn't be in the WNBA if Dawn Staley hadn't created this massive transformation at South Carolina University itself. Right. So the fact that she has recruited the very best talent in the to come to Columbia, the fact that they all want to play for her because she is a woman who has been in their position, a black woman who has played in wnba, who knows what it takes to get into the professional ranks, who's been on Team usa, Right. She's done everything they want to do, and they want to be taught by, like, the best, by somebody who's experienced those same things. Right. I think we're seeing that a lot. Not just in college, but in wnba. Like, it means a lot for these players to be coached by black women, people that they can relate to on a more direct basis. And the fact that she has brought all of these great players into her program means that eventually they can transition into the W. And then she just gets to have fun with them. Right. Once they're up there, the pressure is off for her. Now she just gets to be like fun Aunt Don, Mama Don, just joking around with them, still giving them advice here and there. But it's a very different relationship once they've made that transition from Gamecocks to wow.
- [20:32]
Zena Keda
And I think that that transition is important. Right. We've been hearing a lot on Twitter about bridging the gap between collegiate programs and the W, and very teams are starting to catch up. But the way South Carolina has done it has really been a case study in the way that you can support people once they leave the school when they go into the pro level and encourage the fan base to follow them. Right. And to be engaged in their pro career. I'll never forget reading last April when we at the Athletics, Chantel Jennings and Ben Pickman and others, I believe you contributed to this as well. Had asked players at the collegiate level, how much WNBA are you watching? 39% of them. It was over 90. I think it was over 90 students, student athletes had participated in this and answered the question, how much WNBA are you watching? Over 39% of them said not at all or not much. Right. So even the players aren't watching. So having a growth in the connection between I play college basketball, I want to watch WNBA basketball, or I support college basketball, and I want to support WNBA basketball, I feel like this. What dawn has created at South Carolina really helps engender that connection. What are your. What are your thoughts on how impactful what South Carolina is doing is for the growth of the wnba?
- [22:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think that's a really great point because, you know, the wnba. I think one of the missing pieces is how do we bring fans from the college game into the WNBA game, right? Like, they're watching all of these great players at the collegiate level. Can we at least bring some of them into, watching them continue at the pro level? And I think the first thing that dawn does is her goal is always to. To get players to the pros, right? Even if they're staying there for four years, she wants them. She talks about this all the time. The players talk about this all the time. It's like, it must be a talking point because they all bring it up independently. They all talk about the pro habits that Don Staley brings up in practice. From the very beginning, it's about taking your craft seriously, being receptive to coaching, treating this as a job even when you're a freshman in college, and the fact that she is preparing them for that eventual end game, even when they get their freshman in college, like, not every coach wants to do that. Not every coach is specifically outlining that goal. It's, you know, you want to win games at your college, right? And sometimes that mission doesn't exactly align with making these players the best they can possibly be for the professional level. But Don has forever said no. Like, my goal is to get these players ready to go to the wnba. And I think it's interesting in this age of, like, Covid years and people using their extra eligibility, that class of five freshmen at South Carolina, none of them use their extra year, right? They went to the WNBA right away, and, you know, they obviously could have had a lot of success at South Carolina if they had chosen to stay another year, like Brie Beal or Victoria Saxon. Brie Beal is not even in the WNBA right now. Victoria Saxon's barely playing for the Indiana Fever. Think about what they could have been doing at South Carolina. You know, for a fifth year, playing with all of the incredible talent that is still on that roster. But it was like, no, our goal is to be professional players. Don prepared us to play in the WNBA or overseas or whatever that happens to be. That's what we're going to do after four years when we're, like, eligible to make that happen. So I think that's part of it is that the mindset at South Carolina is, you know, they want to be a pathway to the wnba. It's not about just building up South Carolina. It's about building these players so that they can be great for as long as possible. And then that's why the fans want to follow them, too.
- [24:13]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [24:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Because Don is always talking about, you know, look at. Look at what Asia Wilson's doing. The wnba, they're retiring Tiffany Mitchell's jersey this year at South Carolina. Like, she, I believe, is the first dawn South Carolina product to get drafted. You know, look at what Ty Harris is doing for the Connecticut Sun. I mean, she's shooting, like, over 50% on catch and shoot threes this year. Like, that's. That's not the Ty Harris I remember. Like, that's an incredible, incredible growth. That's a growth factor.
- [24:36]
Zena Keda
Yeah.
- [24:36]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So the fact that, like, they've created this culture where not only are they attached to them as Gamecocks, you know, the fans are attached to them as Gamecocks. They're just attached to them as people. So they don't want to just give up on the relationships with them after four years. They want to continue to be invested in their lives and in their careers. And that's why you see, like, they're taking buses of fans from Columbia to the Atlanta Dream games. Don Staley is a season ticket holder for the Atlanta Dream. Alicia Gray, when she demanded a trade from the Dallas Wings this last year, she wanted to go to Atlanta. Like, she wants to be a part of that fan base. They. They give cheers for Letitia meir, who's the 12th player on the Atlanta Dream, like, as if she is. Is Alicia Gray or Ryan Howard.
- [25:16]
Zena Keda
I love that, though.
- [25:17]
Sabrina Merchant
I think it's all part of it, right, that the people at South Carolina understand the importance of the program in conjunction with what they're doing in South Carolina. And so their fans buy into it, too. And that's why the South Carolina fans, I talked about this a little in the story, are just wild about their players all around the league.
- [25:35]
Zena Keda
And that support is so important. When you think about a lot of these people are tied to South Carolina from a perspective of they went there, their family went there. So there's almost like an emotional tie on top of the fact that they support the women's basketball team. So when you use that and you kind of funnel that into the W, whether there's a team close to them or not, I feel like that's the best thing that the W can ask for, especially when you don't have the scale that the NCAA has in terms of being able to generate fans all around the country. So I appreciate. I agree with you. I've loved all of these Instagram and Twitter posts, X posts of teams being able to say, you know, good luck to our graduates as they go on. Right. Like, it's really cool to be able to see, wow. Like, you know, Notre Dame having 10 players in the. In the. In the league right now that are active or, you know, UConn having, what, 16 or something. I mean, you know, UConn is UConn, but just being able to recognize, like, we have a ton of people that have played for us that are in the league right now and also coaches. Right. Like, we're seeing this next generation. Women's basketball isn't necessarily a new sport, but the WNBA relatively is new. Right. It's only 27 years old. And so you're starting to see the next generation of W players and coaches starting to crop up. And being able to tie those collegiate ties in with why people want to support them is, like, amazing. On that note, I really appreciate you saying how Don Staley focuses on creating WNBA players, because it's a really good point. I don't know. I'd have to do the research and check, but I don't know that I've heard Geno say my goal is to get people to the W. Right. And I don't know that I heard Pat Summitt ever say that. Or Vivian Stringer. See, Vivian Stringer say that at Rutgers. But, yes, they produced a lot of collegiate players that went onto the W, but was that necessarily their goal? I don't know, but dawn is making that very clear. And I think that the reason, and this is my opinion, but I think the reason why she feels that way is for the things that you mentioned. She is a black woman. She does realize the impact of being able to create generational wealth and being able to have that sort of influence on your family. I mean, she is a Hall of Famer. She knows what that looks like to have nil deals and being able to generate money and a true career out of this, whereas Other coaches might not be thinking in that way. So I appreciate her seeing the player for beyond what they can produce for their particular college. I want to ask you, there's another coach that dawn reminds me a lot of in terms of the way that she treats her players. And even what you wrote about dawn and what she says about wanting to support their players. See Vivian Stringer, that was at Rutgers University. She also was at Cheney State beforehand and led first black college to go to the Final Four. They went to the Final Four twice. She always talked to parents, and there's many articles about this where she would talk to parents and say, I'm gonna make your daughter better than just the basketball player. I'm gonna make her more than just the basketball player. Erica Wheeler has talked about how C. Vivian Stringer would say, like you're told her, mom, I'm gonna make sure that she can speak in interviews. Right. I've heard Dawn Staley say this. I'm gonna make sure that she does well in school and things of that nature. When you think about Dawn Staley's path right now as a coach and looking at all the greats that came before her, see Vivian Stringer, Pat Summitt, all of these coaches that players really tie themselves to, what do you think or how do you think her journey is going to compare to those. Those. Those old. Those older coaches that have had years and years of success, but their focus that wasn't necessarily on making them WNBA players?
- [29:54]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, she's obviously following the trail that was blazed by a lot of women before her. I know dawn has mentioned quite frequently about how Carolyn Peck sent a piece of the Net to all of the other black female coaches after, you know, she won the national title. And that was something that dawn wanted to do after she won. And so she got to do that to Neil Ivey and other black coaches around the country. And that's part of the lineage that she wanted to continue. It's not just about Dawn. It's about what she can model for other coaches coming forward. But I also think that she's kind of creating her own path. She's doing this at a powerhouse school in the SEC where she has access to more money and more facilities and the equal pay that she created with the South Carolina men's coach. There's so many things that dawn can set the standard for going forward. Like she's bringing in number one recruiting classes. Like it's nobody's business. Right. There's just more. There's more power that she has being at this, you know, Big five, like, conference at South Carolina in the sec. All of these. All of this access that she has to the resources, the facilities, things like that. And I just think that even though she wouldn't be here without the work of coaches like you've mentioned, like Stevie Vinstringer, like Carolyn Peck, like Pat Summitt, I do think that she's going to be the next. Right. In terms of, like, people are going to want to be like Dawn Staley. They're going to want to, you know, be able to create statues for their players outside of their stadiums or, you know, create this insane fan base that, like, wants to take buses three hours away to go watch a WNBA game where a South Carolina player may or may not play. You know, I mean, Don Staley, like, the Indiana Fever got her to do a little promotional video this year where they created this, like, Fever Gamecocks hat, and she had, like, a discussion that was moderated with her and Aaliyah Boston and Victoria Saxton. So everybody wants a piece of Don. Right. And I think that's something that's kind of unique to her, but also I do believe it's going to set the standard for coaches coming afterwards, for sure.
- [32:00]
Zena Keda
And the influx of money into this.
- [32:03]
Sabrina Merchant
Right.
- [32:03]
Zena Keda
When you talk about her salary, when you talk about her resources, the facilities, you know, South Carolina just got some dope new jerseys from Under Armour. Right. These different things weren't necessarily available during the time of Pat Summit. And see Vivian Stringer and Carolyn Peck, great example, too. Like, I think all of that is going to make her journey. Yes, like you said, blazing, you know, right behind the trail that people blaze before her, but also creating a new standard because in the midst of the day's age, where athletes can go wherever they want requires a lot more from a coach to convince someone to come here and focus on making a championship rather than becoming a college, you know, celebrity or becoming someone that's just known for being a pretty basketball player or known for being. Having the coolest pre season. I don't know, preview tapes. Oh, my God, I sound so old right now. But, you know, like, the things that younger players are doing now that in my time and even before then, we weren't thinking of. Right. Having those. Those preseason things that make everyone excited for watching us this season.
- [33:18]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, we love good hype videos, you know.
- [33:19]
Zena Keda
Hype video. That's what it is. Oh, my God. Thank you, Sabrina. This is embarrassing, but anywho. Yes, a hype video. That's literally what it's Called Anywho. Yeah, I definitely believe that Dawn Staley's creating a standard and I'm excited to see what happens because there are several coaches that are following in her footsteps. I think about Lindsey Whelan with Minnesota. I think about, oh my gosh, I'm blanking on her name at Arizona.
- [33:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Adia Barnes.
- [33:52]
Zena Keda
Thank you. Adia Barnes. Like, there are so many. There are so many coaches, former players going into being coaches that are adding a new level of swagger to the way that they're approaching the game and getting really top tier players to come play for them. The visibility of Dawn Staley is really important. We started out talking about how dawn would show up at Dia Cook's game, Brittney Griner game. She shown up at Aaliyah, Boston's game. Even Asia Wilson does the same thing, right? Asia Wilson will show up to several NCAA games as well, supporting her teammates or former teammates. Thinking about Staley's presence within these players lives post graduation, what do you think that that means? And it's not just Don Staley, like I said, Gino Aurema as well. What does that mean for these players? And do you think coaches in the woods are threatened by that at all?
- [34:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think, you know, when you're a family and like your kid is committing to university, you want to make sure that this is an adult who's going to be a positive role model in their lives. And the people who, you know, send their kids, the families that send their kids to South Carolina, they know that Dawn Staley is going to want to be a part of their lives for as long as she'll let them. And I think that's just the way dawn sees it, right? Like, if her players want to contact her, she will be available to them. Like I think she said, you know, I don't want to Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, quarterback them, but if they call me, I'm there. If they need advice, I'm there. I'm checking box scores, I'm looking at stats. If there's something that I see that seems a little amok, I'm gonna check in with them. And I think that's part of the expectation when they originally commit to South Carolina. This is a lifelong bond that we have created between these players and dawn. And I assume they wouldn't want it any other way. I mean, she says, like, when they come back to South Carolina just to visit, I make sure that they practice with our girls because is I want them all to feel like they're a Part of the same community. You know, I want them to see what it looks like when these players get older. I want them to know that my players, the previous ones, went through the same things. So it's nothing new that you have to go through, and it just helps foster these bonds. Right. Like, one of my favorite moments of the year was somehow Ziah Cook hadn't heard that Tiffany Mitchell's jersey was being retired. And I got to be the one to tell her. And she was so excited because Tiffany Mitchell was the guard that she had idolized when she wanted to go to South Carolina. Like, she was told to look at her aggression and the way that she conducted herself on the court. And, like, they never played together at South Carolina. Tiffany Mitchell was drafted in 2016, Zy Cook in 2023. But that bond is still there. Like when Destiny Henderson came to play for the Sparks on a hardship earlier in the year. Like, first three games were against Minnesota and Dallas. Tiffany Mitchell, Ty Harris, you can see the daps on the court between all four of them. Like, the. This is just what they are. And I think that's part of the package. When you agree to sign up at South Carolina, you know, this is for life. This is not just for four years. This is a thing that we are going to be a part of forever and ever. And as far as the coaches, like, I'm sure Kurt Miller loves that somebody is telling his players, like, you have to fight harder through screens, right? Like, stop letting the big girls bully you around.
- [36:54]
Zena Keda
He's like, thank you for doing my job for me. I've been trying to tell her, but maybe I'll listen. She'll listen from you.
- [37:00]
Sabrina Merchant
Exactly.
- [37:01]
Zena Keda
I love Don Saley, and I also really love what you're referring to, which is a culture, right? These players are buying into a culture. And when you set up a healthy culture within a team environment, within particularly a women's sports environment, it really does become a lifelong sisterhood. It really does become that sorority level of commitment to each other regardless. Right? Like, if you're thinking about the akas, when they see an older sister, this is a female sorority, not anything to do with sports. But when they see a sister, they call her sorority. Right? Or that's particularly between black sororities.
- [37:40]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, we saw that when the Aces visited the White House. And that's what Kamala Harris said to Asia Wilson.
- [37:44]
Zena Keda
Yeah, exactly. That's what I was just gonna reference was, you know, that respect level for each other and making sure, you know, that there's always a Call out to. That's my soror. That's how they have it within the akas. That's with the Deltas, et cetera. But you feel that within the W as well. And that culture of respect for those who came before me and the respect for I have to pull up those that are coming after me. You're seeing that all throughout the league, particularly with South Carolina, but also with all of these kind of collegiate sisterhoods within the wnba. Now, I want to take a little bit of a shift here and talk a little bit about the history of these sisterhoods and ask you a few questions, Sabrina. Test your NCAA to WNBA knowledge. And there was a very. There's one particular fact that I found very interesting. You probably already know this because you're knowledgeable, Sabrina. This is what you do. But for those that don't know, I'm very excited for you to learn. So, number one, UConn has sent five players to the WNBA as a first overall pick. UConn's five. They got five number one picks. Who has the next top number and how many do they have? What school has the next top number and how many do they have?
- [39:05]
Sabrina Merchant
This is a good question. This is a really good question. My WNBA draft knowledge from the mid 2000s is lacking. Okay, so UConn has five. So we're talking at. At most four for another school. I can think of a couple. Stanfords. I can think of. Let's see.
- [39:23]
Zena Keda
Do you want me to give you a hint? Okay, yeah. You're in the right. You're in the bright ballpark. Actually, let's do this first. Name the next four schools that have the most amount, AKA more than one.
- [39:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay. I know Stanford has a couple. I know. I pretty sure Tennessee has more than one. South Carolina obviously has multiple. And I know Notre Dame has Jackie Young. I don't think they have any beyond her. Do they have any beyond her? I don't think so.
- [39:56]
Zena Keda
I'm gonna stop you there.
- [39:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [39:58]
Zena Keda
It actually is Notre Dame. Oh, who's the other one that has more than three total? So I was actually. I was like, looking this up and I was like, wait, what? So they had Jewel Lloyd.
- [40:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, Jewel. Duh. Number one pick.
- [40:13]
Zena Keda
Yeah. And you got the other one. And what I could not find was the third one. But they said that they have three total.
- [40:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [40:24]
Zena Keda
But that's what Notre Dame is claiming. But they haven't listed them anywhere. So they said they have two. The other three you got Correct. Tennessee, South Carolina and Stanford. Now, I want to ask you out of all the coaches, who has the most amount of players to the league that were drafted and then who has the most amount of players that actually played?
- [40:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, is this like, over the entire history of the WNBA or a specific segment? Okay. I would think Geno has sent the most players to the wnba. He's been around for the entirety of its existence. And Yukon's been pretty good.
- [41:10]
Zena Keda
Yep. Casual.
- [41:12]
Sabrina Merchant
So is that the drafted one or the most total?
- [41:14]
Zena Keda
That's the drafted, yes. He had 43 former players drafted.
- [41:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay. And then in terms of players who've actually made the league, I still think it would be Geno.
- [41:24]
Zena Keda
Yeah, it's still Geno. The next one is pat Summitt with 34 active WNBA players. After that, see Vivian Stringer with 21 that was selected in the draft. They're not sure how many actually played in the wnba. And then Tara Vandiver at Stanford, her record says that she has actually had 30 players play in a WNBA game. So she actually comes before C. Vivie Vienstringer. The last thing I will do is connect that C. Vivian Stringer. There is one current player playing right now in the WNBA that played for C. Vivian Stringer, and her mom did, too.
- [42:00]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, Benijah Laney.
- [42:01]
Zena Keda
There you go. Obviously, that's. If you don't know that story, it's really, really cool. Bet Nigel Laney, her mom, Yolanda Laney, played for Steve Vivian Stringer when she was at Cheney State. This. This was before the inception of the wnba. C. Vivian Stringer has always said that had there been a WNBA at the time that Yolanda played, she would have definitely been a first overall or a first round pick, at least. She ended up being a lawyer, sent her kid to go play for C. Vivian at Rutgers, and the rest is history. And now she's about to match up against the Washington Mystics on Friday. So casual. All right. I don't know if you guys got those right. If you were thinking about those on your end. I was like, oh, interesting little bit of history, Fun facts about some programs that have done very, very well in putting in some teams together. So thank you, Sabrina, for putting that story together, giving us a little bit of insight into the South Carolina sisterhood and also just allowing us to see the culture that Dawn Staley has generated at South Carolina. It's really, really special to be able to see.
- [43:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it was a really fun story to put together. I mean, so many things that I didn't even manage to make it in. Just Dawn Staley gushing about what a Good teammate Victoria Saxton is couldn't find a way to get that as part of the story. But as everyone on the Indiana Fever knows, like her time will come.
- [43:20]
Zena Keda
So and as always, it is time for off the script. I'm really grateful for this space for off the script today because it's gonna allow me, the space, the vent to tell you all about something that has been bothering me and frustrating me since the top of the WNBA season. It's been on my mind and my heart as something that is just so unnecessary and is an unkindness to anyone that has to watch and to the teams playing. And that is these in game coaches interviews. I don't know who at the WNBA thought this would be a good idea. Maybe they thought they were being ingenious, maybe they thought they were being cutting edge, that they were doing something different and new and allowing the audience to get a perspective they've never seen before. Yes, yes, this is true. This is a perspective we've never seen before. But there is a reason why it's not a thing. Because it's distracting. Because it's unnecessary. Because while coaches are being asked mundane questions about how they feel about a team or how a player is doing in their eyes in the middle of a game, by the way, they should be worried about making sure the team is in the right out of bounds defense or how a rookie guard like Ziya Cook can fight her way over screens. Yes, that's what they should be worried about. But no, they're being asked questions in the middle of the game. Sabrina, I'm bringing you in on this because I hear you might have the same frustrations.
- [44:58]
Sabrina Merchant
I have a hard enough time with the mid quarter interviews when they get a player like right as she's trying to go to the huddle and you clearly realize that this is not the best use of her time. But to have a coach while the game is going on one, you have to get them to hear your questions while the game is going on. Which if you're in a loud building like let's say Emre Vittancing the Chicago sky in front of 12,000 fans in Las Vegas, it's really hard for him to hear the questions. So we have this technical difficulty happening which makes for terrible television. And then he's legitimately trying to direct his players and he can't do that because he has to answer a question from Monica McNutt. I don't like it at all. I think it's so silly. It doesn't add anything to the broadcast.
- [45:37]
Zena Keda
I agree. And the thing is, literally thinking about Emery, he was on Wednesday night, he's like, what is the question? What is the question? You could see him getting visually frustrated because. Because, yeah, he is trying to coach his team over this incredibly loud arena and there are more important things happening. Like, you know, the fact that they're trying to avoid a blowout that happened anyways. So, yeah, I really don't, I don't understand. I don't get it. And my big thing is if we talk about wanting to respect the game, if you would not do this for any other coach, you wouldn't go to Steve Kerr during a Warriors game and ask him, oh, what do you think is going on in the game right now? You wouldn't do that for Bill Belichick at the Patriots. You wouldn't ask him. Right. You would not interrupt a coach while they're trying to do their job and win games. So why are you doing it here? And I think that there's a level of respect that has to go. These women's basketball coaches are just as important as any other coach and their role is just as important and their focus is just as important. So I'm sorry to whoever came up with this concept of these in game interviews you lost. This is a 00 out of 10. Do not recommend like, I hate it and I really hope they do away with it next year. Okay, that was my off the script for the day. Had to get that off my chest. Appreciate you all joining in. Please subscribe, follow wherever you get your podcasts. For the athletic, I'm Zena Caida. Including encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning, and keep loving the game. Until next time, folks.
- [47:25]
Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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Zena Keda
Hey guys.
- [48:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves. I'm Paige Desorbo. I'm Hannah Burner. Welcome. Welcome to the squad. Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time. But of course we can't be managed so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.