← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Final Four Predictions: Will Iowa make it back to the national championship?
00:34:55
Loading summary
Transcript83 lines
- [00:01]
Ad
This episode of Talk of the Devils is brought to you by Shopify. When we're kids, we dream of being anything. A footballer, an astronaut, an international man, a mystery. But as we get older, reality kicks in and dreams change and we focus on how to take our skills and ideas and turn them into something tangible, like owning your own business. And for that, you'll need a website, a payment system, a logo, and a way to advertise to new customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that's where Shopify comes in. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce ecommerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. When it comes to websites, Shopify's got beautiful ready to go templates to match your brand style. And you can amplify that brand with Shopify's easy to run email and social media campaigns. Shopify's AI tools are created for commerce and can help you with tasks like generating discount codes, writing product descriptions and enhancing product images. And whenever you get stuck, Shopify's award winning 247 customer support is always there. So turn those dreams into sales and get the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.ukreddevils that's shopify.co.ukredDevils all in lowercase and with no spaces. One last time.
- [01:18]
Wayfair Ad
Shopify.co.ukredDevilS Summer is almost here and there's no better place to go for outside furniture than Wayfair. Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor essentials will help you make your outdoor space more comfortable, functional and most importantly, more you. Get your outdoor space rated today so you can enjoy it all season long. When you have kids, they love to be outside, so you gotta be out there to watch them. From Wayfair, you can have outdoor sofas, maybe a set of chairs, a gazebo, some umbrellas because it's really hot down here in the South. No matter the need, Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style and every home. No matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. Free and easy delivery, even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for patio furniture. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more shipped free. Find all your outdoor must haves from seating to pool lounges to trampolines all in one convenient place. Shop a huge selection of outdoor furniture online this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [02:52]
Love
Love.
- [02:52]
Liquid IV Ad
Looks different for everyone, especially when it comes to all the ways you treat and celebrate yourself. I'm a big hammock head. Sunshine a hammock, A paperback western. That's my kind of everyday indulgence. And you can gift yourself the everyday indulgence of extraordinary hydration with Liquid IV powered by Liv Hydro Science. Visit LiquidIV.com to fall in love with flavors like the zesty new hydration multiplier Sugar free Raspberry Lemonade and use Code no dunks to save 20% off your first order. Liquid IV is easy and convenient. You just tear, pour and enjoy. It's my go to when I'm getting a pump in or handing out buckets, but it's great for staying hydrated during long days, enjoying the outdoors or any other time you need some hydration in your body. Liquid IV offers so many true to fruit flavors, whether they be hydration multipliers like acai berry, lemon, lime and pina colada, or sugar free like raspberry lemonade, white peach and rainbow sherbet. The flavors are always true to fruit, break the mold and your own ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone because Liquid IV is powered by LIV Hydro Science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You're getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink plus plus eight essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at Liquid IV when you go to LiquidIV.com and use code no Dunks at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code no Dunks@liquidiv.com.
- [04:57]
Sabrina Merchant
For the athletic I'm Sabrina Merchant and you are listening to the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. We are here in Cleveland bookending the season with another podcast in the middle of a hotel room. I'm Sabrina Merchant, joined by Chantelle Jennings, Ben Pickman and we have Grace Rayner who is in Portland with us, also joining us. We just spent media day for the Final Four in Cleveland at the Rocket Mortgage field house. And let's not bury the lead. We're here to talk about Iowa versus UConn. We got to spend some time with Caitlin Clark and Paige Beckers today. Shantel, what stood out to you about your interactions with them?
- [05:46]
Chantelle Jennings
I think the main thing that stood out was just how tired Caitlyn and Paige are about answering questions about the 2021 game between the two of them. They never actually rolled their eyes, but you could just sense it. It was sort of like it's gotten to the point now where it's like the question of legacy to Caitlyn where it's like how many times can you answer it? Except now they're answering it within the span of four days. And so obviously we have to ask about it though, because it's such a touch point, I guess. And it's a story of how the game has grown and it's reaches back to the bubble season and over the last three years and all of these things and these sort of like interwoven paths of these two incredible players that we've seen. So we have to ask about it, but obviously I think they're just a little tired of talking about that.
- [06:31]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think it's a perfectly valid question. Obviously, Caitlin and Paige, not only did they play against each other in the Sweet 16 in 2021, they played against each other in AAU. They played together in USA Basketball. Like their paths, like you mentioned, have crossed for a very long time. And you know, dating back to 2021, when Paige had to handle the, I wouldn't say burden, but was like the national star and the focal point of everyone's coverage. Now that's transferred over to Caitlin. And I honestly felt a little badly for Caitlin for having to do so many press conferences today. Like she had two player of the year press conferences to dote after all of the Iowa media. But I'm just really excited to watch them play. Like, Ben, what did you learn about, you know, potentially what that game is going to be like?
- [07:11]
Love
I mean, I think the question I have with that game is how much is it going to come down to Caitlin vs. Paige and how much is it, how much is it going to come down to everybody else versus everybody else? Right. It's the big thing we Talk about with UConn this year is the five season ending injuries that they've had and just how short of a roster that they play you know, two, three players play 40 minutes a night, Paige included. Iowa, on the other hand, plays a deeper roster. But. And they rely on their, their core players. But there is still some question, I think, on a night to night basis of who is going to step up. Right. We saw it in the Elite Eight. Kate Martin scored 21 points, Sidney Falter had 16. They really got a boost, you know, Adio. Grady played nine great minutes in the third quarter. Like their role players were really integral in them advancing out of the Elite Eight and into the Final Four. So I do think that this Final Four matchup, for as great as Paige and Caitlin are and will continue to be, you know, they're going to get 25, 30 points each, 35 points each. I think it will really come down to who else is in foul trouble, who else produces and what do those contributions from the role players look like that I think will determine who wins this game more than the stars.
- [08:11]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Cynthia Folter was actually asked about that in the locker room today, about how much is the fact that UConn does have a short bench, is that going to inform how you play? And she said, yeah, it's absolutely going to inform how I play. I plan to attack the basket. And so I think especially early as this Iowa team sort of gauges how the game is going to be called and if it's going to be called super tight, we're going to see Iowa attack the paint a lot to see if they can get players into foul trouble, because, I mean, no one on UConn can get into foul trouble because it's, as we've said, they only have, you know, so many subs that they can go into on the bench. But specifically when Nika Mule gets into foul trouble and she's not able to be the defensive player that UConn needs her to be, I think that really affects the team. And then obviously when she has to go off the floor, it affects the way that Paige plays. I expect she'll be the primary defender on Caitlin. And so like Nika needs to stay on the floor in order for this to be a competitive game. If she gets into early foul trouble, especially, I could see it getting out of hand. Yeah.
- [09:09]
Sabrina Merchant
Nika all but confirmed that she'll be starting on Paige. You know, that's not Paige. She'll be starting on Caitlin. That's her job. Going from De Asia Fair in one game to juju Watkins two games later. And now Caitlin Clark. Like, this is the most fun time of the year. As Nika Mule put It. But what's interesting is I don't even think they can afford to take her off the court if she's in foul trouble. Like, we saw what happened against USC. She picks up her fourth foul with 13 minutes to play and doesn't sit. They just switch the defensive assignment to put Paige on juju. And I think that could potentially be something. We see where Paige will have to take the Caitlin Clark assignment at some point just because Nika has to play for their offense and she also has to play for her defense. They just can't afford for her to get in foul trouble. So as much as, you know, we'll definitely see Nika start on Caitlin, I do believe that there's going to be some shifting and a lot more team defense, because, I mean, it's Caitlin Clark. You can't just have one person guard her for 40 minutes.
- [09:58]
Ben Pickman
I'm curious with Nika, because when she got into that foul trouble, it was to your points arena, like, 13 minutes and 5 seconds left in the game. And I think she had said, you know, I told myself going in that I won't foul out, but I didn't tell myself I wouldn't get four. Gino was like, there is no such thing as trust between me and Nika. Someone was like, did you trust her? He was like, no, I did not trust her, but I prayed a lot. And so I'm curious, like, does she go into this match with that same mentality, like, I'm gonna go get my four and go be super physical, or is she going in, pumping the brakes a little bit? Just like, I think she's the crucial piece in all of this defensively for UConn.
- [10:33]
Love
Can I ask you guys in Portland, like, what was it like when Paige guarded juju and just what was the atmosphere in the arena? Like, how much did people just, like, perk up and anticipate cheers and just were locked in? Because I think it was one of the things that I noticed in Albany, just those few moments when angel and Caitlyn were kind of in a cross match together. Just like there was this anticipatory cheers all the time. And I think as a fan, that is maybe the thing that I am most excited to see potentially on Friday night, is just Paige and Caitlyn guarding each other and just seeing that matchup head to head.
- [11:03]
Ben Pickman
I think it was. I mean, we all knew at some point Paige was going to have to hop on juju after Nico got in big trouble. But, I mean, juju still got her. I think there were A couple three. She hit over Paige and she still got her her fill. But yeah, it's just surreal when you see it up close and you see as much as Geno and everyone had said, like, this is not a one on one matchup, it obviously became that. And so just seeing it up close I thought was really awesome and I.
- [11:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Thought it was really telling that UConn made their last run while Paige was having to guard Juju. Like, that was the real differentiator because Mackenzie Forbes was guarding Paige. They didn't entrust juju with that assignment for usc. And you know, Forbes is great, like, obviously great season for usc, but like, it's. It's just not the same when you don't get to see them go one on one with each other. And the fact that Paige was able to one take care of that matchup and then also elevate on the other end as UConn goes on that game defining run, like, that was really special.
- [11:55]
Chantelle Jennings
One of my favorite things about having covered Caitlin so much this year is how she likes to pretend that she doesn't know exactly how many points she scored or what she's shooting or how many rebounds she has. Like, you know, she'll be like, oh, I didn't realize how close I was to a triple double. I'm like, you knew exactly. Like, you can literally, I can say like, what happened with five minutes to go in the second quarter and you can run me through like four offensive possessions in a row. And so what I'm really curious to see is sort of if there is a defensive switch off a screen or something. And suddenly we see, you know, Paige is guarding Caitlyn and she's like eight feet out from the three point line. And we all sort of know, like, okay, is she gonna pull up here? I think, you know, it is not a one on one battle, but there is the game within the game and these two players are linked together in so many ways. You know, they really respect each other. But you've got to think that there is a part of Caitlyn that knows if I can hit that logo three over page, that would be probably a cherry on top of the season.
- [12:50]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, unless we had anything we wanted to say about Caitlyn and Paige. Again, I kind of wanted just to shift over to Edwards vs. Stolke because that's really where my eyes drop because obviously I can never focus on the most obvious thing. I thought Aaliyah Edwards was really, really good in that Portland regional. And, you know, I've had Some issues. Maybe it's too strong of a word, but, like, I wish she would have stepped up a little bit more as a scorer over the course of the season as UConn has suffered all of these personnel losses. But she was super aggressive, you know, even against a really big USC frontcourt with Rhea, Marshall and Caitlin Davis. And I think her winning the matchup against Stalky is probably the most important thing because I don't expect Paige to outscore Caitlyn. Even when Paige has her big scoring nights, she's usually topping out at 30, and Caitlyn doesn't top out at 30, let's be honest. So I think if Paige is able to get Edwards more involved than Caitlyn is for Stalky, that's, to me, where the game could really turn. Especially because I think Edwards is just more of a physical player than Stalky is. Like, she could really get her in trouble inside.
- [13:52]
Love
I guess I do wonder, though, like, Iowa's gotta feel pretty confident that they can still win a game and not have a great Hannah Stokke performance. Like, the fact that they were able to get past LSU and Hannah Stokke only played 21 minutes and Addison O'Grady played really, really well off the bench. I think has got to give them confidence that no matter if it's Hannah, who obviously is more athletic, runs the floor better than Addison O'Grady and can finish really well, like Hannah or O'Grady who's ever playing the five role for them, like, they can have some success. And look, a lot of that comes down to is Caitlin Clark having success and like, can she bring up, you know, the rest of the players around her? But I agree with you that I think it's going to be like a really important and interesting matchup to watch for. But I think from the Hawkeye's perspective, like, what really matters other than like, how great can Caitlyn make everybody else in this context? Because we've seen them play different kinds of games, have different people step up and like, they don't necessarily need Hannah Stolke to play her best to win. And I think we saw that against a really good LSU team, too. One other thing that I think jumped out to me, big picture today and want to know, I think Sabrina, you talked about it and Chantel, you made a note as well, is just the, like, the magnitude of the moment. There was a lot of conversation about that and I think it's something we should all acknowledge. And it was one of the things that jumped out is just all the media Attention, the tons of press corps from local markets who were here, all the signage all over the place, like, how big this moment feels. And it was a theme that came up in pretty much everyone's press conference about the growth of the game, the interest in the game, the TV viewership. And I think Paige, you know, Sabrina, maybe you want to start on this one. Like, Paige really handled it well when she was talking about next year in the future of the sport and just where she saw the evolution of women's basketball continuing to go.
- [15:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, Paige had to deal with a lot of this attention as a freshman, but I guess on a more subdued level because it was a Covid season. They did play that tournament in a bubble when she won national Player of the Year. And even though she was, I think, the big default star of that season, just the attention wasn't nearly what it is now in 2024, when Caitlyn is like, can't walk down the street. And I'm sure has had to deal with a lot more attention than Paige has. And so when Paige was asked about, you know, with Caitlyn graduating, like, you know, do you expect to once again be that focus? She said, I really hope that there's just a lot more attention on everyone because it's no fun for one person to have to deal with all of it. And I think what's a credit to Paige is she's wanted to defer that attention to other people. I remember her SB speech a few years ago where she said, you know, that the black players in her game don't get nearly as much attention as she does, even though they represent a larger chunk of the demographic than white players do. And, you know, she mentioned juju and Hannah and all of these other star freshmen that are deserving of all the attention that should be coming their way next year. So I think it's pretty cool that she has the perspective to realize, like, even if I want to be the best player in the game, I don't want to dominate all of the coverage like she did in 2021.
- [16:40]
Ben Pickman
I think it's cool that we're at a place in women's basketball now where we're on, like, a first name basis with a lot of these people. Like, it's Paige, it's juju, it's Caitlin. You know, it's like, we don't need last names anymore. And, like, that's when. That's a weird, like, barometer to say you've met the moment. But I don't know, I just think that's like a really significant sign.
- [16:57]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, and I think it's, you know, we've been there in women's basketball for a while, but it's been coaches a lot of times. And this is something coaches have talked about and watch. Why, you know, should we or shouldn't we change the WNBA eligibility rule? And one of the arguments against it that coaches make sometimes is that because college women's players stay for four years, fan bases get to know them and they get to love them and they come back to see them versus in, you know, men's college basketball, where there's so many one and dones. And so, you know, up until this point though, like, there's been Tara and Gino and those have sort of been the first name coaches. And then there was Don. But now it does really feel like there are so many players that we are on that first name basis with where, you know, you can just talk to a casual fan and be like, oh, my gosh, have you seen what juju did this year? And they know exactly who you're talking about. Or did you see Hannah's game? And you know, they know already. You know, you don't have to say Watkins. You don't have to say Hidalgo.
- [17:47]
Love
I mean, we saw that Chantal this morning in a CVS where like, just someone in the store was on the phone being like, caitlin, he's here in the Final Four. And like just a complete random person who I would say did not look like a basketball fan or that they were going to the final Four, like, referred to her by first name only because the final four was here in Cleveland. Like, we saw that firsthand and I think it was a moment that stuck out to us to start the day.
- [18:10]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, that was in my Uber yesterday when I was got picked up from the airport. My Uber driver said, are you here for basketball or the eclipse? And I said, I'm here for basketball. And he said, okay, who's your team? I said, well, I'm actually a reporter, so I'm covering everyone. And he said, oh, that's so cool. So you're gonna see South Carolina and you're gonna see. He was like naming all of the teams. And I was like, oh, are you a women's basketball fan? He was like, I wasn't until recently. But the game is just so fun. And obviously he brought up Caitlin. He was like, oh, my gosh, her logo threes are so cool. And she has been an entry point for so many people into the game. But the fact that, you know, we Went from talking about logo threes to. He asked me, oh, are you in Albany or Portland? I was like, wow, you are really involved. I mean, we had an Uber. We had an Uber driver in Albany who, like, literally, I forget which roster it was that he ran us down.
- [18:54]
Love
Colorado, they knew the depth chart of Colorado, how many seniors they had, who was starting.
- [18:59]
Chantelle Jennings
He was like, jr's gonna have a good team next year, I think. And we were like, we haven't even gotten to that point in our reporting yet to, like, really think about, like, the turnover and Boulder this off season. But thanks, we'll consider it. Like, I just feel like we're having so many more and it's all anecdotal, but it's like all of these, you know, moments where it's like, this is different even than it was three years ago. It just feels so different.
- [19:22]
Love
We were almost. We were like, 10 minutes away. It was a very short ride, but we were 10 minutes away from having this person on the podcast. Like, no joke. We were like, okay, Grace, I'm sorry. Like, you're our fourth on this one. But we were going to call the Uber driver up, call him up for the fourth one for our Cleveland Final Four prediction, because they were so locked in with this roster.
- [19:37]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, just the atmosphere in Portland. Like, I know we didn't have the marquee of Caitlin vs. LSU, but the crowd in Portland for the Elite Eight games was better than the crowd last year at this time in Seattle for Caitlin Clark's Elite Eight game. So just the growth that we've already seen in one year is pretty dramatic.
- [19:56]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, it was totally full. Basically every. They even, like, fans, teams who got knocked out, stuck around. It was awesome.
- [20:03]
Love
One of the teams that came out of Portland is, I think, a team that the general public, though, compared to the other three here, knows a little less about, and that is NC State. They are the three seed who knocked off Texas to advance to the Final Four. So what do you guys make of NC State's chances against South Carolina? What jumped out to you guys about them, their media availabilities, how they seem today, and what chance do you kind of give them as they go up against the undefeated Gamecocks?
- [20:28]
Ben Pickman
I think they're the loosest team here, which is such an interesting thing to watch, given that they have probably the hardest matchup. But Wes Moore today was making Beyonce jokes. He was singing in the press conference.
- [20:40]
Love
Can you give us an impression, Grace?
- [20:42]
Ben Pickman
I could never do him justice, obviously, but I've picked against NC State. These last two games, and I picked against him again for the third time in a row. And I'm like, if there is a team that might be able to knock off South Carolina, it feels kind of like, what the heck, maybe it's NC State.
- [20:57]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't know.
- [20:57]
Ben Pickman
They're just so loose, and Isaiah James has been so good that I just think they're a really interesting team.
- [21:03]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, Wes has been calling them the Party Crashers because everybody else, Elvis, everybody else has a really clear storyline coming into this. And NC State is just the other team that nobody really picked to get out of Portland for. They've really embraced this underdog narrative all year. They were unranked in the preseason. They start the year off by beating UConn. I believe that game was happening while we were recording that last hotel room podcast. You know, they beat Colorado, they get to the ACC tournament final. You know, obviously they're here in the Final Four. They really love everybody picking against them. And, like, how could you not pick against them when they're playing the undefeated South Carolina Gamecocks? But, you know, you have Sinai Rivers going up against her former team. You have Isaiah James, who's been on this ridiculous heater. You have River Baldwin, who honestly is kind of big enough to go up against Camila Cardoso. You know, she is among the more physical posts, especially in that side of the country. And then Zoe Brooks, another one of these fabulous freshmen that we've been talking about all year, just comes in and says, like, yeah, I don't feel any pressure. Like, I've been doing this for a really long time. It's like, Zoe, you're 19 years old. How long have you been doing this for? But she's like, I've been playing basketball for 13 years. Like, this is no different than when that first happened. So, yeah, I totally agree with Grace. Just the vibes with NC State are so much looser. They're just so happy to be here. There was definitely a, like, a little downtick in terms of how many people were at NC State's availability compared to the other teams, but they feel it, you know, and I think they're really embracing that Party Crasher underdog. Nobody believed in us, and they can actually sell that as opposed to the other teams who really cannot.
- [22:34]
Chantelle Jennings
Yes, that's the part of this that I like. You know, we talked about a little bit with LSU last week where, you know, I feel like a lot of the players from LSU were like, you know, we had so many people coming into the season, didn't believe in us. And I kept asking players who, like.
- [22:48]
Sabrina Merchant
Can you tell me we ranked you number one in our preseason poll.
- [22:52]
Chantelle Jennings
Everyone, everyone that I know of consider you to be the top team coming into the season. You won the national title last year. You won the transfer portal. You were the number one preseason team. Where are all of these doubters? I will find them if you tell me where I can find them, but I don't think they exist. But you know, I think we also hear that, though, where and this is just athletics, right? Like, all of these top athletes sort of have this chip on their shoulder, whatever it is that motivates them. And you hear Caitlin talk about it or you hear Paige talk about it earlier and it's like, but everything.
- [23:23]
Sabrina Merchant
The majority of people still believe in.
- [23:25]
Chantelle Jennings
You, but people are still picking you. But it truly is NC State that is coming into this. And it's like, no one thought you would be here. Yes, UConn is a 3 seed, but who thought that NC State is a 3 seed was going to be coming out of Portland? No one. I don't know how many brackets on ESPN's bracket challenge actually had that happening. And so this whole idea of how loose they are makes a lot of sense to me. It sort of feels like Iowa going against South Carolina last year where no one thought Iowa was going to win that game. How can you beat the Freshies? Iowa has no chance. And it's like Iowa goes into that game, they're like, we have absolutely nothing to lose. And it sort of feels like NC State is in that same boat where it's like, no one thought we would be here, no one thinks we should be here. So what the hell, we're going to throw it on the floor and see where the chips fall.
- [24:10]
Love
And yet, like at the same time, I think the word that has come up maybe in South Carolina press conferences the most throughout the last at least two rounds is the word loose, right? And they talk. All they talk about is the freedom and how they joke around and how dawn has had to adjust to all their antics and how they get too excited in the locker room before they played North Carolina earlier this year. And Don gets on them. And so then they have to change their pregame ritual because they started that game slow. Like all the South Carolina team talks about is just how relaxed they are. And it is one of the things that has been striking over the last two weeks, at least since I've been around them up close this tournament is like, there are not a lot of questions and I Think they don't. I mean, they handle them well when they're asked about, like, the pressure and the weight of this moment, that, like, they're going to try and be the only the 10th team ever to complete a season undefeated. Like, that is some rare, rare air. And it would be, I think, the fifth program school ever to accomplish that feat. And yet it doesn't feel like they have that weight on their shoulders at all, that when you talk to them, there is this freedom, there is this playfulness. There's. You know, for a lot of them, it's the first time. And South Carolina, like, I don't think it's fair to say they're playing with house money because it doesn't seem like that, like, they are the favorite entering this tournament. But it is also like this running joke that, you know, they might be, like, the most dominant team that everyone has just slept on all year. Kind of like Dawn Staley was asked about it, you know, on Sunday night after they made the. The Final Four. Like, what are you gonna be doing on Monday night? She's like, I'm just gonna be sitting back and watching, like, the millions of other people. And, like, I'm happy to be doing so. And, you know, I think South Carolina is fine with that predicament also. Like, they are fine that if they win on Friday night and they win on Sunday and they are the national champions, and they didn't lead podcasts, they didn't lead debate shows, like, they weren't the most written about team overall, but they won the national championship. I can guarantee you, like, that is a trade off that Dawn Staley and the rest of the people on that program will take, because that's what it's all for. At the end of the day, what's.
- [26:05]
Chantelle Jennings
Been really interesting in talking with the South Carolina team is just sort of how, you know, I think we've focused a lot on how, like, this group is so much different from the Freshies and they're looser and, you know, I forget exactly how Brie hall put it today, but, like, more. More, kid. Like, sort of. She said they're just having fun and they're loose like that. But one of the things I've really asked the players about a lot is sort of how, you know, when you have a group like that where the Freshies, where it's like four or five players who play together for multiple seasons over the course of a career, you know, that becomes your core. And it's almost like the strength of the South Carolina team is Almost what we thought the downfall of it would be that like there's not necessarily a core, like yes you have the starting five but one through nine, it's really like you can do whatever. And I think the fact that it is sort of so democratic like there's not, there's not necessarily like the five players who are going to get 90% of the minutes and 90% of the scoring. Like I think that has sort of changed the chemistry of this group in a way that you know, the players are very careful to say. Like, you know, I don't want to say that this team is closer than last year's team but it's just a different feel than last year's team. It's a different kind of closeness and a different kind of fun from last year's team. And I think that's really what we're seeing. And they never want to like speak badly about the Freshies class but I think it definitely is at least being in those locker rooms, having been in those locker rooms with South Carolina during the tournament over the last few years with that Freshy class, like it is.
- [27:31]
Love
A different feel I guess. I wonder though in this game and maybe Serena, you have a thought on this. Like you mentioned Sinai Rivers, you mentioned North Carolina State's backcourt. Can South Carolina overcome, you know, mediocre to subpar games from Raven Johnson, from my leisure ful Wylie in this contest like is North Carolina's backcourt, you know, if they outplay the South Carolina guards, do they have a legitimate chance to win this or is there another matchup? Are you looking at Cardozo and River Baldwin?
- [27:56]
Chantelle Jennings
Please give us your low key matchup that none of us have thought of that you think is the Madison Gainsbre hall obviously.
- [28:03]
Sabrina Merchant
No, I think it's really just going to come down to three point shooting here. One thing that NC State mentioned quite a bit when they were asked about the challenges of South Carolina was just that they shoot the ball really well. And that's something that we haven't really associated with the Gamecocks in years past but it absolutely is a strength of this year's team. And what NC State has done well over the last four games since they put up 51 points in the ACC tournament final was Aziah James has been on a heater and Mimi Collins has shot the ball well and Madison Hayes has shot the ball well. So to me that's the real differentiator. Like if South Carolina has an average game from three point range and they make you know their six to Eight threes like NC State's going to have some real difficulty beating them but if they can just hold them, you know, run him off the line, pow pow doesn't get going. Tessa Johnson doesn't get going and NC State has a good game from three point range. I think that could be just the thing that tips them over because NC State's an awesome defensive rebounding team and South Carolina does so well with their second chances that if they can hold them to one shot like that's already in their DNA. So if they just get a little bit of an advantage from that three point line, which you know, James is obviously a big piece of that. Collins, Hayes, if they're shooting the ball well I did pick NC State on our predictions that are on TheAthletic.com I probably did that just because a lot of other people picked South Carolina. But I do like their backward advantage. I think that there is some real athleticism and just the way they blow by their defenders is really challenging for.
- [29:22]
Love
Defenses to contain well and we saw that in the Sweet 16. Indiana was able to come back purely because of just the basketball math we'll call it. They made 13 threes, South Carolina made eight threes. Right. South Carolina made only two more field goals overall and it really just came down to Indiana was able to shoot it better in the second half and was able to just trade threes for twos and that's why it was a four point game at the end and it was a weird game. I think Chantel and I were looking at each other the whole time that it didn't feel that close for like a two possession game or a game that came down to the final couple minutes. But the reason it got so close was because of the reasons you just stated Sabrina. Like they were able to shoot it. And if NC State is able to do it at a club better than South Carolina, they have a chance to hang in there. I don't know if I'd go as far as you.
- [30:04]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean no one did but you're.
- [30:06]
Love
Right, I didn't and I will not go as far as you in picking them to advance to the championship game. But crazier things have happened I guess.
- [30:14]
Ben Pickman
What do we think it's going to be like for Saniya Rivers? Like is Wes Moore picking her brain this week or like that dynamic is always so fascinating to me when you have a transfer that's that familiar with.
- [30:25]
Chantelle Jennings
I think defensively, I mean offensively this team is just so different than the team she came from. I'm sure defensively, yes. But I think also then you have dawn sort of counter programming against that as well, where it's like, okay, if there's any sort of, like, play calls or anything that they've used consistently, like, maybe they come into this game calling it something different so that it's like you can't, you know, I don't, I don't even know. That's just like a total guess.
- [30:47]
Ben Pickman
But I'm sure that makes sense to me.
- [30:48]
Sabrina Merchant
What's interesting is NC State played South Carolina during Saniyah's freshman year. So. Oh yeah, Westmore, like, went up against Rivers when she was on the Gamecocks too. So there's just extra levels of familiarity there.
- [31:00]
Love
And we should say that on Friday morning, there will be a story on Saniyah rivers posting on TheAthletic.com that Sabrina has been working on this week. So if you want to learn more about her journey, we recommend you checking out that story.
- [31:11]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, I think this is actually a really good segue. I think the best way we can end this podcast today. We've spent a lot of time around these teams and we've written a lot of stories. There's a lot that does not get into the stories. We learn a lot of facts and interesting tidbits that maybe just don't earn their way into our pieces. So maybe we can all take a turn and say, like, what's the most important, unimportant thing that you have learned this tournament or your favorite, like, random thing that you've taken away?
- [31:38]
Love
Can I just ask, is this about the teams in the final four or are we talking let's stick to the teams.
- [31:42]
Chantelle Jennings
Stick to the teams in the final four.
- [31:45]
Ben Pickman
Okay. I'm probably cheating because I did put this in my story because I was like, this is too pertinent to not put in. But Paige Beckers apparently has, like, elite snacks and she's a great sharer and Thin Mints are her go to and ice. Brady was like, she's always giving me your snacks. And I was like, what a vibe. Paige Beckers, I feel like this is.
- [32:02]
Chantelle Jennings
This is high praise coming from someone who showed up with a gallon Ziploc bag full of snacks to our press conference.
- [32:09]
Ben Pickman
Does that mean me and Paige Beckers would be friends in real life? You have to have. I know I do have.
- [32:13]
Chantelle Jennings
Like, you offered me like eight different snacks today out of your snack.
- [32:16]
Ben Pickman
I have to get my snack bag down because it barely fit into my. I packed for 12 days for this trip and my backpack zippers almost broke. So I was like, these snacks have to get eaten. They cannot go back to Virginia.
- [32:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, sticking with the Yukon train, I learned that Nica Mule goes through about three pieces of gum during each game. She has, like a good sense of when the flavor is about to run off and reloads right before she starts again. Doesn't like, do it like mid game action. She waits for a timeout or something like that. But she has said that no coach ever told her that this was a bad idea, that she might choke on herself during a game. She doesn't know why that hasn't happened because it does seem like a definite hazard, both from me and from her. And she did end her press conference on the note, like, I just hope I don't choke. Which I think applies to lots of different things, not just, not just the gum.
- [33:01]
Chantelle Jennings
I'll go over to NC State. I feel like Wes Moore is just like everyone in women's basketball knows him as such, like a folksy character. And I just feel like this tournament has put him on such a pedestal for that. Earlier when NC State and Tennessee played, Wes Moore had hired Kelly Harper for one of her first jobs. And she was asked to reflect on what she remembered about Wes. And one of these facts that I feel like will live rent free in my brain until I die is that his favorite lunch order is a salad with extra cheese and no dressing. Which just feels like a very specific thing for me to know about Wes Moore. And also so gross. He said a quote today, something like, I can't carry a tune in a bucket or something like, he's just like whipping out these folksy phrases. He's from Texas. Sabrina did a great impression of him. And I think you said Saniya going back and forth about him singing karaoke last night and singing a Beyonce song like, this is just, you know, I'm glad that the nation is getting to enjoy folksy Westmore.
- [34:03]
Love
I guess I will take the last two teams maybe, if that's okay. I'll say something for two teams today. One of the things that struck me from South Carolina, Camila Cardozo. She has the locker that I believe is Donovan Mitchell's locker. And so she had rummaged through some of the drawers. Pretty much everything has been emptied out. But she had rummaged through the drawers and found a piece of paper that is like, Donovan Mitchell. It says Donovan Mitchell's name on it and captain. And then some of the qualities of like, being a Cleveland Cavaliers captain. And she just taped it up along like alongside inside her locker and just hung it up proudly and people were asked like do you know Donovan Mitchell? She's like no. I just was opening the drawers and saw this and taped it up and was like really proud and she's like named him to like her goat her like all time Mount Rushmore as a result. Like she was really playing up this Donovan Mitchell connection osmosis just by finding this piece of paper and putting it up. The thing I would say about Iowa, I think there's so many fun things because the Caitlin Clark experience lends itself to.
- [34:59]
Chantelle Jennings
I think you need to plug your story.
- [35:00]
Love
Yeah, I mean I'll plug my story if you would like. I have a story going up on theathletic.com I'm just all some of the crazy kind of tales from the Iowa role players of what it's like to be, you know, a reserve or role player on Iowa. Some of the anecdotes are follows. I will just rattle them off. Chantel, if that is okay. I talked to reserve guard Taylor McCabe. She told me a story of last year how she shortly after the Final Four was just in downtown Iowa City with some of her teammates and she was stopped by someone who thought she was Caitlin Clark just because that she has dark hair and wears a ponytail and she is three inches shorter than Caitlin Clark. But like she has been stopped multiple times. And she said that people on the baseball and men's basketball team sometimes joke with her like are you Caitlin Clark? Just to poke fun other stories. Like people pick up Caitlin Clark's doordash like their crumble cookie that like she can't even get it in the lobby because you know, she's so famous that they have to pick it up. I think the two favorite that I would lean to is Caitlin Clark gets swarmed in these media availabilities. Like she gets tons of questions on these press conferences on the media dais and then she walks back into the locker room and you watch as cameras just go right at her and they like attack these walls that like she is fully covered. You can't even see her throughout all the media cameras. And some of these players on Iowa just sit on the sides and like nobody relatively speaking talks to them. So McCabe I went up to her at one point in the elite eight in sweet 16. She was just watching Outer Banks and I was like can I talk to you for a second? And I had to disrupt her TV watching AJ Ettegar wanted their reserve forwards. I went up to her and did the same she said she's just gone through books during media availabilities because she sits in the corner and reads and some people occasionally talk to her. But she has enough time to read. And that is a.
- [36:44]
Chantelle Jennings
It's a real loss for the media.
- [36:46]
Love
It is a real loss.
- [36:46]
Chantelle Jennings
Page day's wonderful to talk to, but.
- [36:49]
Love
That is what life is like for these Iowa players. They are full of fun facts and fun stories, and I'm sure 10 years down the road, they will reminisce like crazy about all the thin mints and book traditions and just like all the Clarkmania that they've encountered over these past couple years.
- [37:04]
Ben Pickman
I want to get to know McCabe more because she told me today she's like, yeah, I'm on Paige Becker's highlight reel from, like, their AAU days. She sounds like a good time.
- [37:12]
Love
She definitely has a lot of opinions and she's very observant. She's seeing it all. Okay, guys, but before we leave, let us get some predictions for the Friday night games. And we should mention that the plan is after these Friday night games, this first national semifinal round, that we will come back to you with the shorter version of this podcast that we will throw up before Sunday so you can get another little primer heading into the national championship. So we're not going to pick an eventual winner, or maybe we should pick who we think is going to win and then we'll pick the actual game based on our faulty predictions come Saturday. How does that all sound?
- [37:45]
Sabrina Merchant
That sounds great.
- [37:46]
Love
We'll go both semifinal games in an overall champion and then we'll come back and evaluate how we did in just 48 hours. So, Grace, Grace, as you mentioned, shame, Zach, we're getting all these wrong, so don't bet on these predictions at all, Grace.
- [37:58]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I'm an expert.
- [37:59]
Love
What do you think is going to happen on Friday? Who wins both of these games and who wins the national title?
- [38:03]
Ben Pickman
I like South Carolina and Iowa and I like South Carolina to win it all. I just think their bench scoring something ridiculous, like 33 points a game is the biggest matchup problem in this tournament. I just don't think anyone can overcome it.
- [38:16]
Sabrina Merchant
I think we're due for a Caitlin Clark storybook ending. So I think it's gonna be Iowa over NC State.
- [38:22]
Chantelle Jennings
I have been feeling South Carolina all season. I have been a big fan of everything this team has been this year. But like you, Sabrina, I have just seen too many sort of fairy tale storybook ending things for Caitlin Clark and the way that she took down Kelsey Plum's record specifically just felt like I was living in a scripted world and it's like her world and we're living in it right now. And I don't know, I guess that's the wave I'm going to ride. So Iowa over South Carolina in the.
- [38:49]
Love
Title game and I am going to go with South Carolina playing Iowa in the championship game. And I think it was a storyline leading into the Elite Eight, obviously of Iowa, Clark avenging the loss to last year's title game and lsu. And that was made. We made such a big deal out of that potential storyline. I don't think enough people are making a big enough deal out of South Carolina wanting revenge on Caitlin Clark in Iowa. And so I am going to go with South Carolina over Iowa in the national championship, completing the undefeated season.
- [39:15]
Sabrina Merchant
Sorry to the UConn fans, I suppose. And now that we've gotten all of our predictions, make sure that you are tuning into the Athletic on Friday morning for all of the coverage we have previewing the national semifinals. And stay tuned throughout the weekend because we have six writers here who are covering these games and just a ton of content coming your way. And then, as Ben mentioned, we'll have another show Sunday morning in your feeds to preview the national title game. But for now, that has been our show. Make sure you subscribe to the Athletic Women's Basketball show wherever you listen to your podcasts and enjoy the Final Four.
- [39:52]
H
As we head into the playoffs. It's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com creditcard from Real.
- [40:18]
Love
Inspiration to digital iteration to achieving perfection. Make it Right the First Time with a Digital Twin Transform the Everyday with.
- [40:30]
I
Siemens this podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal. To help keep you safe for a limited time, Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked, all for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.