← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Future Power Rankings: Best WNBA Teams in 5 Years
00:32:39
Loading summary
Transcript69 lines
- [00:00]
Ben Pickman
Do you own a business that's ready to thrive? It's time to let Intuit QuickBooks take things like unpaid invoices and tracking expenses off your plate so you can take things to the next level. Intuit QuickBooks is a powerful AI driven all in one business solution that can help with day to day tasks like invoicing expenses and taxes. QuickBooks can help you unlock the growth in your business so you can get back to enjoying your business. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks your way to money get 90% off for 3 months limited time only. Terms and conditions apply. Money Movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Inc. Licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services.
- [00:39]
Sabrina Merchant
When you're starting off with something new, it seems like your to do list keeps growing. Finding the right tool helps. And that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of US e commerce. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping. If if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com retail. Go to shopify.com retail hey, I'm Trisha Hershberger, gamer, streamer and Amazon Live host. I stream about tech, gaming and the stuff I actually buy right here with my community. And Amazon Live makes it easy. Streaming, gameplay, scouting, new gear, chatting and shopping all at the same time. That's my kind of multitasking. And it all happens on Amazon Live. Shop on Amazon Live by searching Amazon Live in the Amazon Shopping app and follow your favorite creators today.
- [01:50]
Ben Pickman
Hello and welcome to no off season. I'm Ben Pickman.
- [01:55]
Sabrina Merchant
And I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [01:56]
Ben Pickman
And today on the show it's a twofer episode, just me and Sabrina. We are attempting to predict the future. Sabrina and we have been hard at work at some future power rankings for WNBA franchises and we're here to tell all of you about the process and the prize winners. But first, we officially have a name and logo for a new WNBA franchise in Portland. And as we suspected, the Fire are back. Sabrina, how are you feeling about this new name change or this old new name change so to speak?
- [02:30]
Sabrina Merchant
So I think I've mentioned this before on the podcast that just as someone who has lived through wildfires on the west coast, I don't love the idea of a team being named the Fire. I do understand the nostalgia of it. I like the Rose sort of being encrypted, so to speak, like in the Fire logo itself. I think that's a nice touch considering Portland is the Rose City. So that was a nice touch. I kind of just feel like we're headed for this nostalgia play over and over again. Shock seems like a very legitimate possibility for Detroit rockers, for Cleveland. Personally, I like those names better than I like the name Portland Fire. But, hey, what's old is new, I guess, right?
- [03:08]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. Do you like the logos? I mean, there are all these little references to, I think, the 12 bridges in Portland. You mentioned the Rose. There's an homage to the highest mountain or the highest point in the state of Oregon being at the top of the P Fire logo. Are you a fan of that? They've obviously redone the logo and some of the colors from, you know, the 2000-2002 original Portland fire.
- [03:30]
Sabrina Merchant
I will say it is a significantly more enhanced logo than like, the sort of Microsoft paint clip art version we had going with back in the 2000s, which, all due respect to those, like, I love that visual aesthetic. It's just not where the WNBA is right now. So kudos for the update. Every brand campaign does this, right? Like, they throw out all of these touches that, like, you would never be able to find if you were actually just looking at the logo itself. And I'm glad that they thought of all these details. But, yeah, like I said, the Rose to me is, like, very visible in the Fire itself. And so I thought that was a cool touch. It kind of depends to me, like, what the colors end up looking like on the jerseys. Right. Like, I didn't really think much of the Valkyries logo when it was first launched, but you put it on the violet and all of a sudden, like, that thing really pops. So I. I'm kind of holding off until we see it in a full canvas on a jersey.
- [04:18]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. There's a lot still to be seen with the Portland Fire. Whether that is how these colors and logos look on jerseys or who they hire as a gm, that process is still ongoing. You can read more about that in the story we published on the site this week. Their facility is still in the works. The first phase of it will be done by the start of next year, per team spokesperson, but we'll see how the rest of it kind of develops. There's still a lot of questions surrounding the team, so, you know, an exciting day for them, certainly, but a lot still yet to be determined. So we should keep it moving and say that, you know, as we tape this Caitlin Clark went down with an injury on Tuesday night very late in the final minute of Indiana's victory over over the Connecticut Sun. She has a right groin injury, per the team. She's questionable to play in Wednesday night's game versus the New York Liberty. And her kind of status for All Star Weekend, I think, is one of the big questions that is kind of looming over the WNBA calendar right now. Obviously, we'll keep an eye out on that and we'll update you on all platforms as we get an update. But Sabrina, the other thing that is on my mind is a piece that I wrote, fittingly enough, earlier this week about players wearing hats on the sideline. And I did bring a prompt, a prop for this segment. I feel like we should put a hat on because a branded prop, you can't find me for wearing a hat. And we should say I just did put a hat on fittingly. Basically, the tldr of the story is that last week Natasha Cloud and Izzy Harrison of the New York Liberty were issued a fine warning from the league for wearing hats. In Izzy Harrison's case, a white beret on the sideline of a game they didn't play in. It's kind of a crazy rule that isn't publicly accessible, and we kind of dove into that rule and find transparency. But I want to know just what is your thoughts on the reporting process, the story? Do you want to tell people your reaction when I first told you and then when you started to ask about it? Because we opened up a can of worms I don't think we knew existed.
- [06:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, we're in this period in the W where there's a lot of serious things happening, right? Like we're having conversation about refereeing. We're having conversations about pay equity and revenue share and collective bargaining and labor and all of these sorts of things that are, like, essential to the structure and health of the league. And yet the WNBA is taking time out of its day to find, or at least warn people in advance before they actually have to find them for wearing hats, which is so weird. It's just like, I understand professional organizations have a dress code. The NBA technically has dress code. It is not enforced like the NBA dress code says. Players are not allowed to wear sleeveless things on the stands. That that is, like, never been enforced, at least not within the last 10 years. So for this to be like, I don't know, just a priority at this pivotal moment in the WNBA right now. So strange, as you mentioned, when I started asking people about this, people are so worked up about the fact that this is the thing that is taking up oxygen within the league right now. I heard some teams talking about how they were issued warnings last year as well, though nothing has risen to the level of fine yet. It's unclear why the rule is even instated. Is it to make sure fans have a view behind the bench? But none of these hats are particularly tall, so I don't really get that it's a whole thing. I don't really know why it exists. We're clearly talking about it. But, yeah, just one of the strange minutiae things that exist in the WNBA that I can't quite understand but apparently is just there.
- [07:35]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. And just speaks to. It's one of those things we wouldn't have known about until I kind of caught wind of it and started to report out this story. Because the league also doesn't often publicize finds of players and coaches, and so they're kind of shrouded in this secrecy in some respects. And that was the sentiment that Natasha Cloud echoed to me and others have kind of echoed to us as well. But, Sabrina, let's get into what we're really here to dive fully into, and that is these future power rankings. I'm going to take off my baseball cap that I wore at the end of that block just so we talked about it. And let's start by framing up this discussion, because basically we were attempting to answer the question, like, which team has the best future over the next five years, is best positioned to succeed over the next five years. And honestly, Sabrina, like, we talk on the phone all the time. We've collaborated on tons and tons of stories and projects over the years, talk on this podcast, talk offline. And I don't think we've ever had as many long phone calls about a single project as we have had about this piece right here. I guess, like, I mean, that's fair to say you agree with that sentiment.
- [08:42]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I could look at my phone logs and it would absolutely confirm that.
- [08:45]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. I mean, and the reason why is, like, there were a lot of difficult choices that we had to parse through. And as we put this project together, in short, we created some categories. And that took a lot of work in and of itself. Right. Figuring out which categories we wanted to include. And then we had to put rankings one through 13 for each of the five categories that we selected. And then we had to figure out how to weigh them. Do you want to just give listeners a little peek behind the curtain about the methodology of the project? Some of the categories we chose, how we chose to weigh things, and just like, kind of setting the groundwork for the eventual final results here.
- [09:23]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. So I do recommend that everybody read this project in full, because there's a lot more that we just cannot get into on this podcast episode that is laid out with lovely help from our graphics department. By the way, I want to credit them. It looks so much nicer than I thought it was going to. But, yeah, I guess going into this, it was. When you are looking at the health of a franchise or the projected opportunities for a franchise over the next five years, what is it that matters in determining how good a team is going to be in that period of time? And there's a lot of different things to consider, right? We sort of landed on, like, the big three pieces being like, do they have a facility? Like, what's player experience? Like, you know, what players do they have? Right. Like, that's. That's a big piece of it. And how much do you weigh players who are currently on the roster? Because all veterans except for Kalani Brown and Lexi Brown are going to be free agents this upcoming off season. So how much does it matter that you really have, you know, let's say Kelsey Plum and Dear Cahambi under contract now, if you can't control that they're going to return to your team even next year, let alone for the next five years. And then how much do you weigh rookies? Because. Or like, players under rookie contracts because technically you have the rights to them, but also, like, we don't know how good they're going to be yet. You're projecting a lot based on, like, what you think they're going to be going forward. So there's just a lot like, that we thought about, you know, in terms of market size and, like, how good are the owners? You know, even, like, looking at the draft assets that teams have over the next couple of years. And this is even a trickier exercise in WNBA because, like, teams aren't actually allowed to move their draft picks beyond three years. So, like, basically every team has the same draft picks from 2028 to 2030. So there's not a lot of differentiation there. So there's just a lot of, like, thought into what matters the most and what kind of matters. Like, maybe we should consider it, but not necessarily weight all that heavily. And I think where we landed was, like, ownership matters, the players matter, and the facilities matter. And then we tried to do our best to keep a very objective yet entirely subjective ranking of those things. You Know, obviously our opinions of like, who's a better prospect between Ryan Howard and Angel Reese are very different the more people you talk to.
- [11:24]
Ben Pickman
It's a good point. Right. There's tons of variants in these opinions. And we tried to come up with consensus among the two of us as to where we wanted to put particular players or particular teams when we were coming up with these rankings. So it's market size and arena. That was our least important of the five categories that got a 5% weight in our overall rankings. Next up was draft capital. And that is, you know, important. But the reason why, as you said, not overly important in this exercise because we only have two years out in the WNBA next year, 20, 26 and 27 in terms of draft picks. So that was 10% of our eventual formula, facilities and amenities, that was another category, 20%. Then we had two more, front office and ownership that was a 30% category. And then players. Players was 35%. And within that 35% players category, we broke it down between young players who were 25 years of age and under and veteran players because, you know, this is a future looking exercise. So while it's great that the New York Liberty have Brianna Stewart, Sabrina Ionescu and John Stewie and JJ are, you know, 30 and 31 respectively, and they are not under contract after next year or the Las Vegas Aces have a very veteran heavy roster. It's awesome for them certainly that they have Asia Wilson, but there is some future questions about, you know, I guess what her status might be or what just in general, you know, veteran players, where they might go in free agency. Were there anything else in terms of the weighing that you kind of wanted to touch? I feel like we hit the big stuff there in terms of process and methodology.
- [12:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. I mean, the players I thought was easily the hardest thing to rank just because there's so much. There's a lot of data you can use to determine how good players are, but also a lot of it is subjective. Right. Like is it easier to build around playmaking point guard versus a power forward? How much should we weigh in? The fact that like maybe a player doesn't like their current destination and they might want to get out in a couple of years and does that give the team credit the next five years? So I thought that was really just the most challenging part was the player portion of it. And then also kind of the front office because like there are certain moves that like I may like that a front office has made that don't pan out or, you know, but the the process was an interesting thought. And like, because there's been so much turnover in the wmpa, a lot of these front offices don't have a very long track record. So what are you really judging them off of, like, 14 months of moves, sometimes even less, like, for the next five years, are we going to assume that all these people are even still in their jobs? Like, that was a really challenging part of the exercise, too, was because front offices are so important to literally building rosters and ensuring that the team on the court is going to perform over the next five years. We just didn't have a ton of information on what these front offices have achieved so far. And so there was a little bit of guesswork in terms of who we think has done a good job so far. Because again, for example, Phoenix signed some really interesting free agents this off season. Right. But they've played 20 games together so far. So are we supposed to expect that, like, that is predictive of how things are going to go for the next five years? I'm not really sure.
- [14:19]
Ben Pickman
Right. And that's why this exercise very much is a capsule in time. I think we'll probably look back in a few years and be like, what were we thinking? But that is fun of maybe a few months. Right. And it's a great point. But I think for now, it was really fun to dive into. And it led to a lot of learnings, I think, on our end, about teams and franchises and ownership groups and front offices. And it kind of gives you a good summary of the league at this moment in time. So let's not keep listeners in suspense any longer. Sabrina, do you want to tell them who came out number one in our overall future power rankings?
- [14:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So, as it turns out, the team that came out number one in these rankings was the Indiana Fever, who have the best under 25 duo in the WNBA in Caitlin Clark and Aaliyah Boston. Admittedly, Caitlin Clark's sophomore season has not gone as well as her first year did in the wnba. But you think about the talents of those two, how the fan base has gravitated towards them, all of the money that the Fever organization has now poured into the Fever. You know, we have the practice facility coming in a couple years. Just the game day experience, the player experience are all really being amplified in Indiana. And when you have, like the players and support from the top, that's a really good recipe for a good future outlook for the next five years.
- [15:37]
Ben Pickman
And really, like you mentioned, some of those other factors, the ownership, the fan base, those are all important. But so much of this, again, because of the formula that we wrote, the weighing of it, the 35% in the player category came down to that. Clark in Boston, in our opinion, it's the best under 25 duo in the league. And why that is significant is because those are two players who are under contract, who are controlled by the team, who. There is no question as we head into the 2026 offseason of where those two will be. And obviously that's such a important building block for the Indiana Fever to build around, and that's why they came out on top here, right?
- [16:14]
Sabrina Merchant
And I think what's interesting is, like, Indiana comes in first and then you look at the team that finished second, which was Golden State, and they have a very different reason for being in this position, right? It's mostly because they have an excellent ownership group that made the right hires. I mean, as much as we can say so far through 22 games, right. Oheman Yanin, as the general manager, has assembled a roster that may have been a little overlooked coming into the season, but there's a lot of, you know, young upside talent, specifically from their European players that they've brought in. There's a lot of very quality veterans. Again, we don't know if they're going to stick around much longer, but for now they have a lot of really quality veterans. What appears to be a great head coach, Natalie Nakase, who's going to helm this team for the future. And just like an environment that candidly, it looks like everybody wants to play in, right? Like, who could watch a Golden State game and think, like, that's not a place I want to be a part of.
- [17:02]
Ben Pickman
No, and that's exactly right. Like Golden State right now. So well positioned. And though they don't have maybe, you know, they've Kayla Thornton right now, she is an All Star, but like, they, you know, she's not a Caitlin Clark player in that she's the under 25 level all star or Leah Boston. We do look at their players and see a number of really high potential, potential future All Stars on that roster. And that's why, you know, players maybe not the highest category for Golden State, but you mentioned some of the other important factors. We should say, all told here, like, this exercise was really, really close. Like, if we want to give listeners another peek behind the curtain, we assigned basically, you know, again, work through this formula. We basically came up with these, like, total rank valuations. There was a little bit of distance, I guess, between Indie and Golden State in the end. But things got very, very narrow between like especially the middle part of of this exercise. So I'm just going to run through some of the other key performers. The other top fives were Seattle, number three, New York number four in Washington number five of those three. What's one thing that kind of stands out to you about where any of those three teams stand in our overall rankings?
- [18:13]
Sabrina Merchant
So I guess I was a little surprised that Seattle showed up so high. But you think about the categories they performed well in draft capital. They own LA and Vegas's pick in the upcoming 2026 draft and the Sparks, you know, and Aces are both currently in the lottery. So that's, you know, two really exciting picks to add potentially to your roster going forward. They have a great arena, a great new practice facility and they have Dominique Malanga, who, you know, only 19 years old right now, but you think over the next five years of her career could be one of the more special players in the wnba. So maybe like big picture, I was like a little surprised that Seattle showed up at this particular range. But when you think about all of the little pieces that came into it, I guess, you know, that's why we made the formula, right? So it all sort of does the work for us.
- [19:01]
Ben Pickman
That's a good call. And we look at Omalonga still as this like high potential player. New York I think we should also recognize because New York in the players category re ranked as number nine overall and that is not a reflection of their current roster. Folks like we recognize and we write in the notes of this that Stewie, JJ and Sabrina maybe the best trio in the league currently. But again, this is a future looking exercise and if you look at New York's under 25 talent, it pales in comparison to some other teams in the league. Right? We've talked about Indiana. Chicago has someone like Angel Reese who has an incredibly high ceiling. A two time all star. Dominique Malanga, you mentioned her. As Washington. They're in the top five in large part because they have two all stars and this really, really deep under 25 core. But new York still ranks high because even with some questions about aging or what their veteran future looks like, their ownership in front office we rank as number one, right? Jonathan Cold, their general manager, proven been there a while, made swings, revamped the roster creatively and had success. Ownership similarly invested in the franchise. New York has a ton of people on their support staff, on their medical staff. You know, they spare no expense. I know All Star weekend is coming up. John Qual Jones not an All Star. She's actually going back to the Bahamas for the All Star break. Lucky John, Quality Jones, Sandy Brandello. Sabrina, you'd appreciate this joke that like maybe she wishes she was also going to the Bahamas. I mean who could blame her for that, right? Like I think we maybe, maybe I should get, try and get on that trip too. Sabrina, what do you think?
- [20:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Wait, so Liberty are paying for her to go to Bahamas?
- [20:36]
Ben Pickman
John is going to the Bahamas. I'm not sure who's paying for her particular trip, but it is relevant because Andrew Wade, an assistant coach, New York's player development coach, is going to the Bahamas for the All Star break. And I believe another staffer or two is also joining JJ in the Bahamas. And when we talk about ownership, investment and expense, I think we both know not every team would send two or three staffers along with a player to, you know, X players, other city or market for the All Star break. Because some owners just don't invest like that. And so that is why New York fares so well in that category. And in terms of facilities investment also they're building a new facility so they get some kind of future looking credit for that. Yeah, right.
- [21:18]
Sabrina Merchant
And that was one reason why we wanted to separate sort of the ownership piece and the facility piece because there are owners who have done a lot beyond the facility. Right. Like you think about the size and all of the things that they've done to improve the experience of being the Liberty player. Part of it's just like the atmosphere they've created in Barclays Center. Right. And maybe that hasn't included facility of yet, but that doesn't diminish all the work that they've done because frankly it's just harder to get real estate done in New York and Los Angeles versus like other other cities around the country. So I, I think like that was an important separation to make because I mean the size were like almost they were fined, you know, for giving too many benefits to their players a few years ago. Right. When they chartered the team for the second half of the 2021 season. So they have attempted to provide an experience for their players. It's not necessarily in the facility as of yet, but with that in the works, like all the categories really work for New York.
- [22:13]
Ben Pickman
Are you a business owner looking to grow your business? You did what most dream of doing, starting your own business. Now you're faced with the reality of how to make your small business run smoothly. Intuit QuickBooks can help. QuickBooks is a powerful AI driven all in one business. Solution. That means those day to day tasks, invoicing, expenses, taxes can be done effortlessly, but here's where it gets really good. You don't need to hire a team of analysts to find growth opportunities hiding in your business data. QuickBooks can help with cash flow optimization, profit and loss analysis. It helps you see how your business is doing and uncover new ways to be more profitable. QuickBooks can help unlock the growth in your business so you can get back to enjoying your business. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks your way to money get 90% off for 3 months limited time only. Terms and conditions apply. Money Movement services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc. Licensed as a money Transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. This episode is sponsored by the San Diego State University Sports MBA Program, a full time in person graduate program that trains students for sports business roles with team front offices, agencies, venues, brands and more. The program's MBA curriculum curriculum has all the numbers heavy content of a typical mba, but adds a sports focus by exploring themes such as growth of women's sports, labor relations, athletes rights and social responsibility. SDSU Sports MBA students study abroad for a week in the Dominican Republic to learn about the many ways in which MLB's presence impacts the country. Throughout their studies, students can gain experience as interns, consultants and part time employees with sports organizations throughout Southern California, including San Diego Wave FC. Applications are currently being accepted through July 1st. For an August 2025 start, visit SDSU EDU no Offseason to learn more and apply.
- [24:15]
Sabrina Merchant
If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling drop it. And 50% groaning at the bill from every vet visit. Which is why Lemonade Pet Insurance is tailor made for your and can save you up to 90% on vet bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account nervous. Claims are filed super easily through the Lemonade app and half get settled instantly. Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled drop it.
- [24:56]
Ben Pickman
Foreign let's go to the other end to a team that the New York Liberty have faced and played a lot of competitive games with over in recent years and that is the Las Vegas Aces. They come in at number 12 in our overall rankings. Do you want to explain to the people? Because I think that is the one that when you look at that list a lot of people are going to gravitate towards number one and two and three in the top five as they do. But then down at number 12, I think is the other name that people are going to circle. Why did we end up or how did we end up with the aces at 12? And what stands out to you about that?
- [25:31]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, so I think aces are at 12. Connecticut is number 13. I don't think anyone's really surprised by that. This is a franchise that it has explored selling. So when you're in that position, probably a little tenuous about the future for the next five years. But to go from Connecticut to Vegas is I think a pretty jarring jump. And we should say first of all, there is a big spread between Connecticut and Vegas. Connecticut is 13th with a bullet, whereas Vegas is a lot longer, closer to 11 and 10. But you think about the categories that we mentioned, right? One of them is market and arena. Right. Like Vegas is a arena, lease is up. We don't know where they're going to play next year. And Las Vegas is a relatively smaller market compared to other cities around the country. That hasn't seemed to stop free agents from wanting to go there. But it was something that came up. You think about draft capital. Vegas has not made a first round draft pick since 2002 and they don't own either of their next two first round draft picks.
- [26:21]
Ben Pickman
So not, not 2002.
- [26:23]
Sabrina Merchant
Sabrina, sorry, 2022 I AP and they don't own their next two first round draft picks. So not exactly a pipeline of young talent in Vegas which, you know, lends to the player category as well. You think about their 25 and under players and it's pretty much just Melissa Smith and Ali and I and Kirsten Bell and you know, none of those players really project to be Future All Stars MVPs. It's a very shallow pool as well. So they didn't particularly do well in that category. And you think about the one thing like that Vegas really has going for it is its current talent. Again, all of their best players are free agents this upcoming season and we did, you know, have a little bit of the player category go towards current players, but because of the uncertainty, because of the fact that like they're all going to be turning 30 and hitting the other side of 30 soon, like this is a forward looking exercise and Asia Wilson might be the best player in the WNBA now, but in five years it's unlikely that she will be. So you think about the Aces and if Asia is like defies logic and is like the best player in the league in Five years. This exercise looks very foolish. Right. But one domino topples with the Aces. If she decides to go somewhere else, I think everything falls apart because again, like, no draft picks, no young players, no general manager. Right. They let go of Natalie Williams during the off season and have not really replaced her. Nikki Fargas, who was performing business functions for the Las Vegas Aces as well as also now they're acting general manager. It's just a lot riding on the very broad shoulders of Asia Wilson and she's currently capable of handling it. But you're starting to see like there's just a lot for her to shoulder in that organization. And beyond that, it's, it's very tenuous.
- [28:00]
Ben Pickman
I want to loop in, you know, our player poll surveys that we've been doing all week because two years ago when we asked players around the league the place that they most would want to play, the answer we received the most was the Las Vegas Aces. They received just one vote in our recent round of polling. You can read more about that result on the site. Currently, Phoenix and New York were 1:2 in terms of players and wanting saying best run organization. The two organizations on the other end of that were the Connecticut sun, who I think we've talked about, and the Chicago sky, who come in at number nine overall in our ranking. Chicago was a team that, I don't know if disagreed is the right word, but we spent a lot of time really getting into the weeds on Chicago, who's nine, Dallas, who's 10, Atlanta, who's seven, and Minnesota, who's eight. Those were the four teams. I think that as we tried to finish off this exercise, at least from a numerical categorying standpoint, categorical standpoint, we just were working through like do what were the biggest disagreements, I guess that we had or that came up and we were like going back and forth or not sure about as it related to, you know, any of those four teams.
- [29:17]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned with Seattle how like big picture, I didn't really understand how they got such high of a ranking. And then you look at the little pieces and it all adds up. Minnesota was kind of the opposite where like they have Cheryl Reeve, the longest tenured head coach executive in the wnba, they have Nafisa Collier, maybe the best player in the wnba, and you think, how could this team not be in position to do well over the next five years? Right. Like Nafisa Collier in her prime. And yet, you know, relatively small market. Alex Rodriguez, the new governor of the Lynx, just said that they have no plans to Build a link specific practice facility. They have basically like an average amount of draft assets going forward. Young players not exactly teaming in Minnesota. Right. Like they just cut Alyssa Peely Diamond Miller has been kind of blah over her first three seasons in the league. So the formula really didn't pay out for Minnesota. Even though you just think big picture. Oh, Shell Reeven Feast of Collier, this should work. And so that was sort of surprising as we put in the numbers. Like to see Minnesota lower than all of these other teams when like if we're including this year as one of the five years and they win a title in the wnba, like that would be weird, right? And then I think another part of the challenge was the Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta triumvirate where they, they each have like one young player who you think is someone you could legitimately build a title team around, whether that's Ryan Howard, Paige Beckers or Angel Reese. So how do you weigh the three of them? How do you weigh the fact that they're all, you know, playing in arena situations that are kind of subpar? They none of them have a dedicated facility yet. Ownership has sort of been hit or miss in terms of how much they want to commit. So like they have a big piece of it. Right. Like I would want to build a team around Paige Becker as a range to Reese. Right. But how do you balance that with all of the other things that go into the health of a franchise?
- [30:56]
Ben Pickman
And Rhys was really a player we keyed in on because you know, she is started this season slow but has been awesome over the last month of the season putting up a double double and like you know, 15 rebounds, not just like 10 and 10 pretty much every single night. She's a two time All Star, 23 years old. Like she is a blue chip player that a team, any team in the league seemingly would want to build around. And so this exercise, you know, we very much had to go back and reevaluate kind of Chicago because when we broadly started thinking about this a couple weeks ago, even like she had not yet kind of gone on the tear and now she very much is on a tear. But where we see the player rankings shake out is like the rest of Chicago's roster, not as strong say as la where you can make an argument that, you know, Brink and Rekia Jackson and this is something we talked about like Brink and Rekia Jackson also could be two blue chip players but they haven't proven it in the same way as Angel Reese. And yet LA also still has Kelsey Plummet, Dierka Hamby, Azari, Stevens. But there is some uncertainty there about what their futures might be in la.
- [32:02]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. Which is why, like, as much subjectivity as there is to it, we try to, you know, nail it down to like, these are the rankings, these are how much we're weighting it, and whatever the formula spits out is the ranking that we're going with.
- [32:14]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, we're going to blame the formula. Any complaints that people have about our rankings where we put someone in a category, where we put someone in overall. Right. We want to direct all those to blame the formula. Don't blame Google Sheets. Yeah. Is there anything else as we kind of close this part of the conversation out that you wanted to get across about this exercise or big picture thoughts that you feel like we learned about the league in 2025 and how maybe we're thinking about the future? Just as we step back and zoom out a little on this project, I.
- [32:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Think part of it was, you know, just sort of cataloging how much each franchise really is investing into the product. Right. I think the majority of them are working on facilities, are trying to upgrade their arena situations, are building out their stabs, and there's so much young talent. Trying to rank the young talent in the league was easily the hardest part of this because you get down to number eight, number nine, and it's like, well, I still see all stars on this potential group, so how do we distinguish that? So I think Even if you're 11th or 10th on the future power rankings, I think the future is still pretty bright for the wnba.
- [33:19]
Ben Pickman
I think that's a really good point on the facilities because not, you know, two years ago, Las Vegas. Right. It was two or three years ago at this point, 2023 season.
- [33:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:28]
Ben Pickman
The Las Vegas Aces opened their new facility. And that was, you know, really first of its kind at the time. In the years since Seattle and Phoenix have opened facilities, and if you look at it like more than 2/3 or 3/4 of the league right now is either planning on opening new facilities, has projects in construction, or announced new projects. And so that was one thing, I think when we started to dive into the project, we were thinking a lot about facilities, but in five years time, and this is something that the WNBPA hopes to codify a little bit more in the upcoming agreement, like facilities. While that's a little bit of an arm race, in this current moment, it might not be as important in 2030, or there might be kind of marginal differences, other kinds of investment that ownership can make that are more important than just like what is your structure, your baseline structure? Because at that point I think we all expect like teams to have these really nice facilities. So I think that's a really good call out about the facilities. The other thing I want to say about this project, we did not include Toronto, Portland or the three expansion teams, you know, Cleveland, Detroit and Philly, who will all be in the league by 2030. I think we decided during the scope of this exercise. Yeah, right. That is, during the scope of this exercise, we just stepped back and we said like some of them haven't made any hires. Almost all of them haven't made any hires. They have no players. We don't know their draft pick situation. We know broadly what their facilities look like. This is a total projection exercise. We're diving into the abyss with all these questions. But even for us, Sabrina, I think there were too many questions that were out there for us to dive in and factor in the five expansion teams that are coming into the league going forward.
- [35:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. And in five years, maybe we can look at how those teams are faring.
- [35:09]
Ben Pickman
Well, I'm sure we will. I look forward to the many long conversations that we will have five years from now on. Who knows what kind of device and you know, we'll just be teleporting into the same space as we like tour each of the facilities virtually at that time, I'm sure who knows what the technology will be.
- [35:33]
Sabrina Merchant
The Snack Wrap is back. This episode of Giggly Squad is brought to you by McDonald's and I'm so.
- [35:40]
Ben Pickman
Excited to tell you that the snack.
- [35:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Wrap featuring juicy white meat, chicken, shredded lettuce, melty cheese, creamy ranch. Sorry I'm drooling on the microphone right now. All wrapped in a soft tortilla is.
- [35:51]
Ben Pickman
Back on the menu.
- [35:53]
Sabrina Merchant
They have it in ranch or spicy, a spicy pepper sauce. If you're feeling frisky, try the snack wrap that broke the Internet at a McDonald's near you.
- [36:03]
Ben Pickman
Ready to level up your everyday Quince makes premium essentials without the premium price tag. From quality clothing and stylish accessories to travel staples and high end home goods, Quince has it all. And by partnering directly with top artisans and ethical factories, Quince delivers high quality at half the cost of similar brands. Shop elevated essentials without the markup at Quince. Go to quince.comlevelup for free shipping and 365 day returns.
- [36:31]
Sabrina Merchant
Quince.comlevelup asking questions doesn't mean make one a difficult patient. It makes you an advocate for you. Life can be hard enough so what do you do when you receive a medical diagnosis that changes everything? How do you navigate feeling like you have to fight to be heard when.
- [36:46]
Ben Pickman
It comes to your health? These are big scary questions and there's.
- [36:49]
Sabrina Merchant
No one size fits all answer. That's why BetterHelp teamed up with host and licensed therapist He Su Jo to create Mind if We Talk, a new podcast that looks at life's difficult moments through the lens of therapy. On the latest episode, Jesu sits down with comedian Ryan Sickler to talk about the diagnosis that turned his life upside down and the tools that helped him move forward. If you or someone you love has ever felt the weight of medical stress, this episode is for you. Listen and subscribe to Mind if We Talk Wherever you get your podcasts and remember, your happiness matters.
- [37:27]
Ben Pickman
That is all we have for you today folks. Come back here tomorrow tomorrow for another episode of this podcast, a preview of All Star Weekend. We'll break down all the events happening, what to expect, how the players might show up, fair fashion games, big things. We're looking forward to more. We got it all and as always, before we go, if you haven't, please follow our show right now wherever you are. Listening. Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast, we really love to hear from you. So drop a comment or an email or post at us. Whatever works. Let us know what you think about the computer, the formula and how we did on this exercise. We very much are curious to hear what people have to say and of course head on over to our partner, the Yahoo Sports Hub. For more content@sports.yahoo.com womens-sports sabrina on behalf of the Athletic, I am Ben Pickman. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time.
- [38:24]
Sabrina Merchant
No Off Season is hosted by Zena Cato with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is Managing Editor of Women's Basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our Head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations.
- [38:58]
Ben Pickman
Skincare routines felt overwhelming until I found Panoxyl with breakout fighting tools like the.
- [39:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Best selling foaming wash with 10% benzoyl peroxide, pimple patches and acne fighting body spray. Panoxyl makes a difference. I can see and feel.
- [39:12]
Ben Pickman
Dermatologist recommended and tried trusted for over 50 years. It's clear why Penoxyl is the acne authority. Find your clear skin routine@penoxyl.com or on Amazon. Hi, Brooke Devart here, host of Naked Beauty. Every week I talk to my audience about beauty and self care.
- [39:30]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm someone who spends a lot of.
- [39:31]
Ben Pickman
Time in the bathroom. It is truly my sanctuary.
- [39:35]
Sabrina Merchant
So investing in a smart toilet from.
- [39:36]
Ben Pickman
Kohler has been life changing. The Kohler Vale Smart Toilet has a heated seat, hands free, opening of the lid and customizable bidet functionality. It is incredible, but beyond the technology.
- [39:48]
Sabrina Merchant
The design is just stunning.
- [39:50]
Ben Pickman
The veil's curved silhouette in honed black.
- [39:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Actually inspired creative director and fashion designer.
- [39:55]
Ben Pickman
Laura Kim to create a stunning black chiffon dress that debuted on the Runway at New York Fashion Week.
- [40:02]
Sabrina Merchant
The creative partnership between Kohler and Laura.
- [40:04]
Ben Pickman
Kim is changing how we think about everyday objects like a toilet. Transform your routine into something extraordinary with.
- [40:12]
Sabrina Merchant
The Kohler Vail Smart Toilet. If you work as a manufacturing facilities engineer, installing a new piece of equipment can be as complex as the machinery itself. From prep work to alignment and testing, it's your team's job to put it all together. That's why it's good to have Grainger on your side. With industrial grade products and next day delivery, Grainger helps ensure you have everything you need close at hand through every step of the installation. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop.
- [40:39]
Ben Pickman
By Grainger for the ones who get it done.