← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
How does the history of the WNBA All-Star Game prepare us for this year's version?
00:54:27
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- [00:01]
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- [01:20]
Ben
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There to watch them.
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- [04:49]
D
Foreign for the Athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's basketball. Whether you are a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes the game or you're a casual fan looking to find out what the heck is the wnba Orange Carpet. Don't worry you're in the right place. Make sure to subscribe to this pod wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. Also, subscribe to the Athletic so you don't miss out on year round in depth coverage of the game you love. I'm joined today by athletic women's basketball writers, as always, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. And again, let's go through what we're going to cover today, or what we like to call the scout. It's going to be all WNBA All Star, baby. That's what we got to find out. Okay, some of you, like me, have technically never been to a WNBA All Star weekend. Some of you, like me, may have been to a WNBA All Star game and didn't even know you were at a WNBA All Star game. Yes, folks, that happened. I definitely went to one and was in the crowd shocked by the level of star power in this one WNBA game in Connecticut. It I remember Sabrina Merchant, you were the one that explained to me that this was a special edition of the WNBA All Star Game. What game was that that I was at?
- [06:20]
E
I want to say you were at the one at Mohegan sun in 2010.
- [06:24]
D
Correct.
- [06:25]
E
Referred to as Stars at the Sun.
- [06:28]
D
Got it. Okay. Well, that's where I was, but that doesn't count. Okay. I barely even knew I was there. And I know that there's a lot of folks listening right now that's never been to a WNBA All Star and they've got a lot of questions. They want to know what to expect, they want to know what the events are, all of the things. So, folks, I'm officially your conduit. I am here to ask Sabrina and Ben all of the questions around WNBA All Star, not only just around the events and everything that's going on, what's going to happen on the court, some predictions, things like that. Yeah, that's what we're going to be talking about today. So let's get into it. First and foremost, it's interesting. The WNBA has been around for over 20 years, yet this is the 20th annual All Star Game. That's my first question. When did this all start and why is that? Where. Why has there not been as many WNBA All Stars as there have been years in the wnba?
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E
So the WNBA All Star Game came to be in 1999, which was two years after the league officially established itself. So that's two. That's why we're down from 28 to 26 and then in 2004, 8, 12, 16 and 2024 of those are Olympic years. One of those was the COVID bubble year when there was no All Star Game. Spoiler alert. No All Star Game in any of those years. So that's another five that are off the board. And then every other year has had some sort of showcase. Whether that's a USA versus WNBA or traditional east, west or drafted All Star situation. I don't particularly know why Xena the 2010 edition of the All Star Game was USA versus WNBA. It's the only one that exists outside of an Olympic year. But yeah, that's why there are fewer All Star games than you might expect for a 28 year old league. And it's why when you look at a player's resume like say Diana Tarazi and see that she's an 11 time All Star, even though she's been in the league for 20 plus years, it doesn't exactly do justice to how often she has been among the top players in the game.
- [08:36]
F
I was going to say like that is one of my favorite trivia questions that she is an 11 time all star drafted in 2004 and Brittney Griner is a 10 time all star drafted in 2013. And you know that's nine years of draft difference. And you know, both are great players but it's kind of crazy that only one All Star appearance separates the two of them.
- [08:54]
D
Yeah, that is. That is insane. I did not even know that. Thank you for that fact. And also I wonder how many players are kind of like about that. I feel like the veterans might be like particularly like hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. That number doesn't really reflect the work I've put in, but that's super interesting. Okay, so that makes a lot more sense as to why there was a differentiation there between the years of this game. And it's hilarious that of all the games I went to, I went to this one anomaly where this is not an East West. This is not, you know, a regular showcase into an Olympic year. It was just 2010. Let's go have some fun at Mohegan Sun. No problem. Now let's dive in a little bit more into where we're at. This year it's taking place in Phoenix. So every year it rotates. Similar to the NBA, a team gets to host it. So this year the Mercury are the ones that are going to be hosting it. And this is exciting because obviously there's a lot of new eyeballs on this game. And so I was looking for my hotel to go out there. Hotels are sold out. I don't know if this means that this game is going to be sold out, if this event's going to be sold out. And I want to kind of know, like, what is there to buy tickets to in WNBA All Star other than the actual game on Saturday night? So, Ben, walk me through like the schedule of events.
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F
Yeah, so the WNBA All Star Game, the event that is taking place on Saturday evening in Phoenix, is officially sold out. So that game you cannot buy a ticket for anymore. But it does still seem like there are tickets for Friday night, which is the kind of skills challenge and three point shootout night of the All Star Weekend festivities. One of the things that has kind of changed in recent years is that, you know, the WNBA has also created WNBA Live, which is this will be the third year of that. And that is really an opportunity to, you know, there's a lot of brand activations. There's musicians, there's athletes and WNBA players that come through with some of their partner brand deals and give talks and sometimes clinics and, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's given away. There's a lot of just things to check out that a lot of fans can flock to. And that I believe this year is at the Phoenix Convention center, so people can check that out throughout the weekend. It goes along with this kind of general push in recent years to make WNBA All Star Weekend an event and a really big thing and something that happens year over year over year. You know, we kind of joked about that Tarasi Griner stat and Sabrina was mapping out the history and how it was skipped in recent years. And I do think presently in the wnba, like I would be pretty shocked if we saw that trend. We, we saw the league ever go back to that trend, especially over the next decade. Like, I think the WNBA understands how important it is to have this annual All Star Game showcase even in Olympic years. And they found a way with this team, WNBA versus Team USA format to do it well. And look, think about all the sponsors that are going to show up, the partners, the, you know, the people who are coming into the weekend to, you know, again, partnerships with their products. Like that stuff is important to the business and growth of the league. And so I think that is, you know, another reason why this weekend is significant and on the calendar. And it's another weekend reason why I think in years to come, like, you know, I don't think we're going to have these like weird gaps without WNBA All Star Games in Olympic years going forward.
- [12:22]
E
And I think what Ben said about filling out the weekend is really important. It's not just one day, one game that you're coming in for. It's a whole catalog of events, right? Like you have the Skills Challenge, you have the three point Shootout, which haven't even been regular events for the entirety of WNBA All Star. Like there was a nine year gap between skills challenges in 2010 and 2010. And you know, just a couple years ago there was a three point shootout that occurred during halftime of the WNBA All Star Game. So the fact that it's on separate nights, that it's getting its own billing in prime time on Friday, that you can also come to Phoenix and check out WNBA Live. And if you are coming to Phoenix and checking out WNBA Live, I suggest leaving extra room in your suitcase because there's a lot of stuff that comes out of WNBA Live. It's a good, it's a good swag event for WNBA fans. But yeah, just all of these things that make this a, you know, a trip that people want to make to come not just to see the game, but everything that's associated with the game with the Skills Challenge, the Shootout and just all of this WNBA action, you know, over these two days.
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D
No, it truly is an event. I like the way, you know, that's the best way to describe it. It's truly become an event. And you're seeing all these brands that we've been seeing all season long partnering with these players. They're absolutely going to be showing up and platforming themselves and trying to get involved in this new fandom and all the new eyeballs that are on the league right now. So I'm, I'm excited to see just all the activations and the way that these brands show up for these fans. Because for all of us listening who have never been, this is our first experience. And I feel like everyone's going to want to put their best foot forward in terms of how they show up and they activate. Now I'm curious about the actual location of Phoenix. Beyond me knowing it's going to be hot as hell. Just hot folks. But beyond that, I know that in previous years other cities have had struggles with trying to activate in the same places or ensuring that people can get to multiple things in a short amount of time and truly get the full experience. What do you guys know about like the layout of WNBA All Star in Phoenix?
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F
Well, I do think like the events are taking place in downtown Phoenix and you know, the Footprint center, which is the home of the Mercury, is like, I want to say a two minute walk, three minute walk. From the convention center, which is where WNBA live is going to be. So those things are close and in walking distance, though. You know what is really walking distance? When there are highs of 110 and 112 and 115 degrees throughout the weekend. I know, dry heat, dry heat. That's all I've been hearing for 10 days. But we'll see what that really means when we get there. I think the other thing that we should note about this weekend and kind of creating an event is Phoenix is significant this year because the Phoenix Mercury are opening their new practice facility that they've invested, you know, upwards of, you know, more than $50 million into and built in a very short order. And they are unveiling that this weekend during All Star Weekend. And, you know, there is a tour, the grand opening is Thursday. And you know, this is going to be their, the franchise's home for years to come. And so, you know, those two things coincide really, really nicely with each other, I think. You know, the franchise, I think, is certainly excited to show off their new building and it should be cool to check out with, you know, more media there, different players coming in and potentially being in that facility, having the chance to go in there. So, you know, that is just another thing. I don't believe that is open to the public, but that is another reason, like, you know, from people in the league. Like, that is something else that is significant about this weekend being in Phoenix.
- [16:07]
D
It is really cool to see Phoenix kind of have the opportunity to showcase how to continue to level up between, you know, what Mark Davis did with Las Vegas Aces facilities. You saw what Seattle Storm did, climate, Pledge arena and their facilities. I just feel like each team is starting to level up and this and, you know, All Star is a really great opportunity for them to show off to the rest of the league. Especially considering Golden State Valkyries will be in the building as well as the new Toronto team. So good. This is also really great business opportunity, of course, for WNB All Star.
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E
Yeah, Ben makes a really good point about showing off this weekend when all of the players are in town and getting to see the facility because it's just a perfect recruiting tool and free agency.
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D
Right.
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E
Like you think about Las Vegas, as you mentioned, they opened their facility last year. They let other teams practice in that facility during the course of the regular season because they want other teams to get a sense of what it is like, they want other players to get a sense of what it is like to practice in the Las Vegas Aces practice facility. So to be Able to have your facility open for all of the All Stars, not to mention all of the other WNBA athletes who come out to All Star Weekend is very well timed for the Mercury, Right?
- [17:14]
D
Right now I don't know if Joe lacob, the owner of the warriors and now the Valkyries, is listening, but he's like, noted we'll be keeping my facilities open, trying to get the best team. I'm sure he is. That's a smart businessman in terms of trying to make sure he's got the best roster for next year. All right, so now let's talk a little bit about the players, right? Not only just being able to come in and see facilities, but this is their time to have fun, to let loose. And sometimes people look at All Star Weekend as like, oh, this is the time for the players to rest. Right? Coming out to All Star Weekend is a lot. They've got to get a lot going. They've got to get their stylists together, they got to get their looks together. They're getting all, you know, there, there's. It's not just relaxation for them. A lot of them are doing appearances, A lot of them are doing activations. But this is a time away from, from basketball in terms of the season for them and a time to get together. So who typically shows up at WNBA All Star beyond the people that were voted onto the All Star teams?
- [18:11]
E
I feel like everybody shows up, you know, in.
- [18:13]
D
Is it everyone.
- [18:14]
E
There was. There was a good selection of all, not all stars who were there just hanging out for the weekend. You see a lot of college players come through because they're not in season. I know last year, Cameron Brink, Kaylee Van Lith and Deja Kelly were this like, triumvirate that was very noticeable everywhere they walked. Mostly because Cameron Brink looked like a six foot eight Barbie. Just going around Vegas is very hard to miss her. But yeah, it's just a good time for people to show up. You know, there was a South Carolina contingent of like Destiny Henderson and Zia Cook and a few others who made their way to the events last year. Obviously most of the Aces were there because they were in town, but it's, you know, like Ben said, there's so many brands that are in attendance that are having their events. There are agencies that are having their events. So they want to invite all of their players who, whether they are All Stars or not, to be a part of the festivities. And it's just a good time for the players to, you know, pretend that they like each other for part of the season, I guess. Or actually enjoy each other's company as opposed to competing against each other during the course of the season.
- [19:08]
D
Yeah, I'm always curious because I know sometimes, interestingly enough folks, I have been to an MLB All Star, I have been to an NHL All Star, and I've been an NBA All Star, but I've not been to a WNBA All Star. And you know, sometimes there's talk of like, not all the big time players are going to show up because they're taking their time off, they're. They want to rest and such. So it's, it's really cool to not only hear the WNBA stars are showing up, but also your favorite college stars might be in the building too, which is super cool. Uh, well, getting into the team aspect, Team wnba, Team usa again, those two, I think that's the only thing in terms of leading up to this event that might have been a little confusing for folks, but as they voted, like understanding that there was a Team USA that you could have voted in as an All Star, but if they were on the Olympic team, they were already going to be a part of the All Star Game. Right. And I think that that was a little confusing for some fans, but understanding there's a Team USA that's representing the Olympic team and there's a team WNBA that was also voted upon, not only by fans but also by coaches. And now they're going to play up against each other. And we've been talking about this in our previous shows, but just thinking about what this weekend is going to look like in terms of the competition, I want to take it back to previous years to kind of set the groundwork, like for both of you. Ben, I'll start with you. Is there an All Star Game that sticks out to you in terms of just how competitive it was or just how fun it was or just how unique it was in terms of the outcome?
- [20:49]
F
Yeah, I mean, the easy historical comparison is 2021, when we saw Team WNBA play against the Team USA Olympians. And in that game, Team WNBA, the non US 5 on 5 Olympians, defeated the US Women's National Team 93 to 85. Now that score is maybe a little bit on the high side for a normal regular season game, but if you look at All Star games in both past and also recent memory, that is on the low side. And one of the numbers that I think jumps out to me when I was going back and watching some of that game and checking out some of the numbers is field goal attempts overall and both of those teams in that game, Team WNBA took 84 shots and Team USA they took 74 shots. If you look at a lot of other All Star games in recent numbers, in recent years, rather the field goal attempts, often if not every year, over 100, sometimes 110, 115, 120.
- [21:44]
D
Like playing defense, right?
- [21:46]
F
Exactly. That's, that's the key takeaway that it in that game, in that game there was legitimate defense being played. Right. You look at also minutes totals again, John Quell Jones, she was on team W, team WNBA that year. She played 30 minutes in that game. Arike Gumbawale, she played 26. But I mean, can you remember an All Star game in which one player played 3/4 of the game like JJ did in 2021? Like, I can't on the men's side, on the women's side, like, that's crazy. But that is a sign that at least in that year that game was competitive. And I think that is kind of the looming question that I know we have entering this weekend is what competitive level will we see? Are we going to get an All Star game that looks more like that, that has defense and, you know, the Team USA team figuring out their rotations or are we going to get one of these, you know, 130 to 115 and everybody's just shooting threes up and down? I think that is like the big question for the on court portion of the weekend for sure.
- [22:45]
D
Guys, for those of you listening don't know necessarily like field goal attempt averages and things like that. If you're looking at an NBA game, WNBA game, regardless, with shot attempts under 90, you're looking at a pretty competitive game. So when Penn is saying 85, 74 for these shot attempts, my mouth dropped. I was like, oh, they were like sweating. They broke sweats out there. They were legitimately playing defense. That's so that's a really great comparison. I mean, Sabrina, thinking about what Team USA is trying to accomplish, they have the Olympics in weeks after this, right? So they do have to set a standard in terms of being able to say like we're, we're capable of beating our all Stars in the WNBA and also the world. Do you expect them to be, you know, to come out guns blazing and ready to compete?
- [23:38]
E
Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, this is a team that should be winning every game, right? Like, this is the best of the best in terms of Americans. And they obviously went on to win the gold medal pretty comfortably even after losing to team WNBA and an exhibition To Team Australia, I want to say was that in 2021, Ben, they lost two games in that little lead up to the Tokyo Olympics. But I'm a little concerned about Team USA bringing out their best effort in this exhibition just because, you know, Brianna Stewart just missed the last game for the New York Liberty. Brittney Griner had a hip thing that caused her to miss three quarters of a game against Indiana. Diana Tarazi has been intermittently out. Chelsea Gray missed the first part of the season. Nafisa Collier has played recently. So there's a lot of lingering injuries that Team USA needs to not necessarily address. Obviously, like you can't force bodies to get better, but that they need to get a handle on before heading off to Paris. And I'm not sure that going balls out in a game against WNBA players who really want to beat you is going to be the best case scenario for the Americans in this situation.
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D
Oh, that makes complete sense. And when you just listed that, that entire list of players that haven't been.
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E
Playing, it's like half the roster.
- [24:51]
D
Yeah, I was just going to say literally that is almost half the roster.
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F
Seems like they seems like they need a break, right?
- [25:00]
D
This is coming. This timing is almost terrible for them in terms of wanting to take a break and utilizing the All Star break for what it's supposed to be and for some other players in terms of getting rest and such. But it does seem like team WNBA isn't going to care about any of that. I feel like team WNBA is going to show up to play and, you know, prove something. Ben, you had mentioned how Arike Gumbawale had balled out in that 2021 game on our previous a podcast and I'm want to ask you both looking at team wnba, are there any players that you guys are expecting to show up and show out? For me, I'm expecting the rookies, right, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese to want to make sure that everyone knows like we're here, we're making an impact on the game in some way. But as you're looking at that Team WNBA roster, who are you expecting to have like a really big game?
- [25:56]
F
I think we can wait on the rookies because I think that is an interesting thing. There's three players non rookies that I have circled. Arike Gumawale, I think you have to have circled just because of the 2021 performance in that game. She had 26 points, she took 18 shots. So she is one name you have to circle. Though I think I would expect a slightly quieter Night from her. Player number two is someone I mentioned, Jonquil Jones. She is the person that I have circled in big letters, circled, underlined, bolded, everything you can do. She. If I'm making an All Star MVP prediction, an early one, as we tape this early week, she would be my MVP. She averages in her four all star game prior appearances, 21 and 12. She scored 24 points, 13, 18, 29. She just eats on the glass. And I think this year we've seen her be, you know, a playmaker with behind the back passes. We've seen her shoot a lot of threes. I think that is the kind of performance that we could expect. And you know, Sabrina mentioned some of the injuries, like, you know, we'll see how much, especially on the front court, like how much some of those bigs really want to, you know, just play with John Quell, who can be so dominant, you know, around the basket. So that is name number two. And if you want one other name that you should circle oftentimes in some of these All Star games, not necessarily when it's Team USA versus Team wnba, there's kind of a spark off the bench, right? A player who comes in, Erica Wheeler a few years ago won WNBA All Star mvp, you know, coming off the bench. So if you want one name to circle there, Kayla McBride, a little under the radar. We'll see how much and what role she plays. She took 11 three pointers in her last All Star appearance in 2019. She is someone green light. She's going against fee, she's going against Cheryl Reeve. Fearless, you know, can play with some of the best players in the world, has success in the WN in Europe, could be in for a big game in the All Star Game. Mark that name down as well.
- [27:47]
D
I like that. And mark that name down for the season as well. Kayla McBride has been shooting her butt off for the links. Sabrina, what about you? Anyone that you're looking at and circling?
- [27:57]
E
I mean, I like the John Quell name a lot and obviously I've brought up Deorka Hamby quite a bit. Just the. The fact that she will be playing against four members of the Las Vegas Aces again really just seems to bring out the best in your goal of time. But I do think it's worth pointing out that there has not been a frontcourt player who has won MVP of the All Star Game since 2013. And this is something that. That was Candace Parker, but this is something that Stewie and BG and Asia Wilson all acknowledged kind of jokingly. But after the 2023 game in Las Vegas. How, you know, they sort of let the guards take control and maybe it was about time that one of them reasserted their dominance in All Star Games. Because, you know, we mentioned all the time that the WNBA is a league that is dominated by front court players. It's dominated by power forwards and they tend to win mvp most often they win finals mvp and like the teams with the best front court players tend to win the championships. Not so in All Star Games. We've had a lot of Jewel Lloyd, Kelsey Plum, Maya Moore won a few years. Ben mentioned Arigo Gumbawi and Erica Wheeler, obviously. So. Although I do think that the WNBA skews towards more talent in the frontcourt, I think it's more likely that we're going to see a backcourt MVP just because of the way these games tend to run. Like the guards are the one who have the ball in their hand the more often. They're taking up a lot of threes, they're putting some points on the board. So for me, I would probably look in the backcourt for an mvp. I know Ben said that he expected a more muted showing from Arike. I'm not sure why that never seems to happen with Enrique ever. Any situation, if anything, let that girl get a win. It's been a tough season for the Dallas Wings so far, but yeah, I think I would probably skew towards a guard. Kayla McBride was an interesting name. You know, someone who's obviously a sniper can put up a lot of points in a hurry. I think about Jackie Young and Kelsey Plum on, you know, the USA side, they'll have a chance to put up some big numbers. But yeah, I, I kind of find myself just like continuing to come back to a rig just because of what type of year it's been for her, how much this showcase still means for her. Especially the comments that she's made about USA Basketball in the past and the fact that, you know, she, she can put up shots in a hurry.
- [30:10]
D
Right. No, that makes sense. I like this assessment of the backcourt more likely getting the MVP or the, you know, having those kind of standout games in All Star. Because I didn't, I don't think I've noticed that pattern. As soon as you mentioned that Brianna Stewart and Brittney Griner had mentioned, you know, All Star MVP is usually not a post, I was like, well, that's because of the MVPs and the finals MVPs are always posts. Like they gotta get something, they gotta get their buddy somewhere. But I kind of, I kind of want a front court MVP for All Star and I'm not gonna lie, I want it to be a vet. I want it to be Dewana Bonner or Neca or you know, someone to come in and say, hey, I could still do this thing. I could still run with the best of them. So it'll be interesting to see how team WNBA comes out against Team usa. Now I know Ben, you mentioned to pause on the rookie performances, but I do want to talk about this because this is going to be an interesting dynamic. Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese on the same side of the ball at the same time. Guys, this is fun. This is exciting. We have not seen the two of them get to match up and play with each other in the entirety of their careers, college and wnba. And so it'll be very interesting to see how they come together. But of course Caitlin Clark has her person on the team, Aaliyah Bossen right there with her. I imagine a lot of connection there. Obviously helping her assist numbers up, performing in that way and finding some comfort in that way. But thinking about the performances of Clark and Reese, how can they get comfortable out there in an all star game?
- [31:53]
F
I mean I think it helps certainly having Leah Boston if you are Caitlin Clark. It also helps having Kelsey Mitchell, another Indiana WNBA for Caitlin Clark. I mean the thing I am curious about with these rookies is like in my mind they can't tone set this game right. Like it is going to be on Team USA and it is going to be on some of the veterans to dictate how hard people play and what is the competition level and how much defense specifically is being played right. Like that. I think if you, if you're playing pickup and I think I mentioned this analogy last week, not to say any of our pickup exploits. Xena, you at least played collegiately so you could speak to this better than Sabrina and I. But like you know, the new person on the block isn't necessarily dictating pace of play, physicality, how intense the game is like in some of those settings. And this is an exhibition and everyone just kind of, I think like wants to come away being friends and friendly after this. Like no, we don't want any scuffles. We don't want any bad blood or any like trash talk or malice. Like it is a showcase and so everyone should be in good spirits. So I would expect them to defer a little bit. I mean I do think like we talk about how all star games favor the guards. I do think, you know, even if It's a wide open affair. We could see a lot of logo threes from Caitlin Clark in this game and the fans would love that. And certainly it suits her game very well. And you know, who knows, Maybe she gets 30 and sets like a three point record for All Star Game threes. That would not shock me. I think, you know, Angel Reese, we'll see what she does. I mean, I think I wouldn't be shocked if she took some threes because again, oftentimes you see Biggs try and get involved in the action in All Star Games by just pulling up from three, showing that they have guard skills. But I do think, like I, I'm looking at, I went back through 2018 WNB All Star. That's Asia Wilson's rookie year. She had 18 points and 5 rebounds, 9 of 18 shooting like a perfectly good game in just under 20 minutes. A very good game for an All Star Game debut. But I think like that's the kind of game we could maybe see as the ceiling for Angel Reese, like around 20 and a few rebounds in my mind, I think, you know, yeah, that's, that's kind of my expectation for, for the Rooks overall.
- [34:10]
D
Hey, that's fair and I agree with you. So, you know, being a rookie, being a young person, you don't come into the locker room being the loudest and you know, telling people where your locker is and what you're going to do. I feel like that's kind of like the equivalent here on the court just being like, all right, where we at? What we doing? Everyone running? Are we jogging? Are we. We got hands up on defense? Oh, no. Okay, cool. Are we boxing out? No. All right, cool. So I feel like it'll be a little bit of that for a little bit before they get comfortable. Uh, Sabrina, I want to ask about rookies in the past because this is. It doesn't. It's not unprecedented. There's been rookies that have made to the All Star Game. Uh, but I don't think, I think it's a little unprecedented how much attention are on these particular rookies come into the All Star Game. So what I know Ben just mentioned kind of a ceiling or something to aim for at least for, for Reese. What are some of the past performances that have stood out to you from rookies in this game?
- [35:03]
E
Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see first of all, who, well, whoever is coaching team wnba, who they decide to start in this game. Because I do think in terms of tone setting, it's obviously a lot Easier to set the tone if you're on the court to start the game versus if you're coming in. And like, you know, Ben mentioned the logo threes for Caitlin. I think Caitlin could really make an impact just by dazzling with the passes, right? Like, she's going to throw out some ridiculous stuff and just see who can catch what she's throwing. So I do think that there is an opportunity for her to create some highlights with her assists. And again, I think that becomes a lot easier if she is in the first five. And immediately, you know, okay, this is what we're going to do here. We're just going to run. I'm going to throw bombs over the top and we're going to see who's going to catch them. And maybe that's angel, maybe that's Aaliyah, maybe that's Derek or John Quill or whoever. But I think once we know the starters, I'll have a better idea of who actually has an opportunity to really meaningfully affect the, the tone of this game. You know, for, for the word that Ben said.
- [35:57]
D
And what's that process? Like, how are the starters for the All Star Game chosen?
- [36:01]
E
It's a great question. I have zero idea. It's just incumbent upon the coach that decides who is going to be the first guy. I will say that it's probably likely that the players who were selected by the combination of fan vote with the player and media component will be starters and that, you know, we'll just add one more to that from the remaining pool. So that would be Caitlin Clark, Aaliyah Boston, Dier Kahambi and Arike Gumbawale, which incidentally forms a pretty nice lineup as it is. You just get one more forward and that should work out. But there have only been six players in WNBA All Star history who have started the game as rookies. So for Caitlin or Angel to start this game would be a pretty massive achievement. Like Aaliyah Boston was voted in as a starter last year. That was, you know, an anomalous occasion. And now here we are with the potential for two more players to, to get that this year. So it is like you said, it's. It's unlikely that rookies are getting this much attention in all stream. The fact that both of them are even voted in as all stars hasn't happened in 10 years. The last time, as Ben wrote about in his rookie rankings, incidentally, was in Phoenix and Ben actually mentioned the second highest rookie performance of an All Star all time with Asia Wilson when she put up what was that? 18 points in 2018, there's only been one rookie that's ever scored more than her in an All Star Game. And I'll let the two of you guess because I was floored by the name. I probably shouldn't have been, but Diana Taurosi.
- [37:35]
F
No, I mean, I know because I've done the research on this. That's going to be Shoney Schimmel. The 2014 WNB All Star Game. She scored 29 points, was the MVP, coincidentally, the MVP of that game that year. That was an All Star Game record as well. And Sabrina, you know the answer to this as well. I think if I'm going to spin you a trivia question, where was that game held?
- [37:58]
E
Phoenix.
- [38:00]
D
There you go.
- [38:02]
E
The first. This is the first time the All Star Game has returned to Phoenix since 2014, when Shoney Shimola and Shanaya Gumuke were the rookies in that game. Unfortunately for Diana, she was in 2004 when there was no All Star Game because of the Olympic.
- [38:14]
D
Right, of course. There you go.
- [38:17]
E
Didn't get to play in the All Star Game.
- [38:19]
D
I bring it back to beginning. I know she gotta be bitter about that. She's gotta be bitter. Like, come on. Didn't have the rookie opportunity, didn't have as many All Stars. She's competitive. I would want to. I would also be like, come on, come on.
- [38:32]
E
There have only even been 10 rookies who have scored double figures in an All Star Game. So it's not like they're really going out there and making their mic right away. And you know, among those 10, it's pretty much a who's who, like Asia Wilson, Simone Augustus, Ryan Howard, Tamika Catchings, Maya Moore, like names that you would expect along with, you know, Shoney, Shimmel, Halter, respect.
- [38:53]
D
But I mean, I actually remember Shoni Schimmel. She was playing at Louisville when I was playing at Yale. We did not play against each other at any point, but I remember her being a good guard, Very, very good in college. But I'm not sure. I don't know much about her WNBA career and I definitely didn't know she was the top scoring rookie of all time.
- [39:17]
E
I will say that Kevin McGuff, the head coach at Ohio State University, says that Caitlin Clark reminds him more of Shoney Schimmel than any other player he's ever coached against. So if you're looking for someone with similarities in an All Star situation, there you go.
- [39:33]
D
Now, we had someone ride into the show, shout out to Justin Jabs, talking, wanting to know a little bit more about some history. We didn't know that Shoney Shimmel was going to be the player that we were going to talk about today in terms of your history lesson, but there you go. Look her up, folks. Apparently she is a legend in the game, but that's awesome. I did not know that. And that also is a new ceiling that both Caitlyn and Angel can aspire to for this game. Now with the game that's all cool and everyone's talking about it, it's going to be on July 20th. It's the Saturday night event. It's the big one, but there is more games and activations in competition the night before. And it's the three point Shootout and a skills competition. Right. Okay. And now when does the roster or the participants for that come out? We are recording this on Sunday before All Star. When are we expected to see those names come out?
- [40:31]
F
There's definitely some uncertainty as we tape that about when we're going to get those exact rosters. What I would say as a primer for fans is usually those two contests. The majority of the participants are players who are participating in the weekend and specifically in the All Star Game the following day. So I think it is a safe bet to assume, for instance, that Caitlin Clark and Sabrina Unescu will be in the three point shootout, you know, as an example. And maybe someone you know, a Beck Allen, well, she's on the Australian team, so maybe not her as an example, but someone like Sophie Cunningham, you know, who is in market for the Phoenix Mercury, could participate in skills or three point, you know, because she's there and probably like has some stuff going on that weekend. But the majority of the participants, I think it's safe to say historically are people who are taking place in the game Saturday. So, you know, maybe it's a good bet if you still want to check out, you know, some of your favorite players on the weekend. You know, look at the Friday night. There's a good shot you're you're going to see them there.
- [41:35]
D
Now you guys have covered All Star Games before and I'm sure you've had an opportunity to press with the players and such that are playing and not only the ones that are playing in the main game, but also in the competition like in other sports sometimes, you know, whether it's in the NFL or MLB, etc. NBA. You sometimes hear players say like I'm not going to participate, like I don't want to get hurt or I don't think there's value or whatever it is in the time that you guys have covered the All Star Game, like, I would imagine that WNBA players want to put on a show because they really want that support. They really are connected with their fans. What has been the sentiment about participating in these kind of peripheral events outside of the All Star Game from players?
- [42:21]
F
I mean, I do think this weekend is a little bit different because it is an Olympic year and, you know, maybe we can get into this too, but like, there is an Olympic team that is preparing and thinking about next steps, and they're not going on an All Star break the way you would typically in a non Olympic year. And so, you know, the Team USA Olympians, I'm sure they're gonna have full schedules with not only practices and, you know, gearing up for this game, but like, you know, different sponsorship and brand events. But they're gonna have a really busy weekend. And I think, you know, it will be really interesting to hear them reflect on the weekend because, like, they're going off to do something momentous. And so that's a lot to juggle in a way that, you know, a year ago, if you're in Vegas, like, you know, the Las Vegas ASUS players who were there, they could do all the business obligations they had to do. They could, you know, have as much fun at parties and other events as they wanted to have, and they could show up in whatever shape they wanted for the actual game themselves because it was just an exhibition game. Things are a little bit different this year.
- [43:27]
E
Yeah.
- [43:28]
F
In Phoenix.
- [43:29]
E
Yeah, I think we've seen really good participation in terms, especially the three Point Shootout, like, like Ben mentioned, it is a lot of All Stars. But the fact that they're all willing to put their, you know, their names on the line in that competition, which is pretty much the premier event of, you know, the Friday night showcase, I think is, is worthwhile. Obviously, Sabrina Nescu comes in as the record holder who put up 37 points in last year's three point shootout. Still one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in person. And then she, you know, got to participate in that Sabrina versus Steph Shootout at NBA All Star Weekend. It would be a little disappointing if Sabrina decided that as an Olympian, her schedule was too full to be in the three point Shootout this year. Understandable, I guess, because again, gold medal is on the line in two weeks. But I think, you know, like, like Ben mentioned, like Natasha Cloud being in market potentially for the skills Challenge, or, you know, all the other guards like Kelsey Mitchell and Alicia Gray and just like really high level talent already there makes these skills challenge and three point show. That's even more fun. And I mean, God, I hope we get Caitlin Clark in three point shout out. It'd be so silly if we did not get her after all, right?
- [44:38]
D
Exactly. No, I feel. I feel like Caitlin Clark likes to put on a show. She's an entertainer. On top of being a really great athlete, she gets the crowd involved in every game she plays. I mean, today the Indiana Fever beat the Lynx at their home. And Caitlin Clark, as she's walking to the free throw line at the end of the very end of the game is like pumping up the Minnesota Lynx crowd.
- [45:00]
E
It did not feel like a home game.
- [45:02]
D
Did not feel like a home game. It did not look like one either. There was a lot.
- [45:06]
E
Carver North.
- [45:07]
D
Correct. Exactly. Carver North. Exactly. So I feel like she is an entertainer and it's in her, in herself and her game and the way that she, you know, approaches everything she does out there. So I'm expecting a show out of her and the entire weekend, especially considering there's so many more eyeballs on the weekend than ever before. Now, before we go, I do want to ask you guys two questions. My first one, potential starters for both teams. I'm putting you all on the spot.
- [45:37]
E
So I think for Team usa, I would say that Chelsea Gray, Asia Wilson and Brianna Stewart are pretty much locks for three spots. I don't really know who the other two are going to be like. If it were me, I would probably start Nafisa Collier and Jackie Young at the other two spots. Again, injuries make that a little challenging because Collier hasn't played in a few games. Stewie missed her last game. So I'm not sure if, you know, that lineup that we see in Phoenix is going to be the lineup that plays in group stage game one in Paris. But I think that's more of my group stage game one Paris lineup than it is the Phoenix lineup. Yeah, yeah.
- [46:19]
F
I mean, I actually like Sabrina's call with the team wnba, the four players that were kind of voted in initially. And then I would add Jonquill Jones as the fifth player to that starting lineup. You know, MVP candidate and a big. And someone who brings a different dynamic. I think the Team USA question is very much up for debate. I mean, I think Sabrina made a really interesting point in raising the injuries that all these players are dealing with, because we really don't know, like, what they're going to bring and what they're going to do. For me, I guess I would expect Wilson, Stewart and Nafisa Collier all to be in the starting lineup if healthy. I think, you know, we have seen Nafisa Collier was not a big part of the, you know, the Olympic team in Tokyo. She was on that team, but she played in only four games. She was really one of the two least used players on that roster, I think this year. I mean, she's obviously playing at an MVP level, but, you know, her coach in the WNBA is also the Team USA coach and she brings a dynamic and a versatility on the wing in general that I think will see her slot into the starting lineup. I think Chelsea Gray, you know, again will be in the starting lineup and then I think that last spot is pretty interesting. And I think, you know, Jewel Lloyd is someone who has started in a number of the lead up games in February, obviously a really good score and provides, you know, that dynamic to the starting lineup at the 2. I think an interesting question is Sabrina Unescu, right, Who has gone up and really playing at like a first team, all WNBA level. She was not like used a ton during those February exhibition games, but her game has gone up a ton since we saw like last WNBA season in my mind. And she, by slotting her into the starting lineup, you get shooting, you get playmaking. You also keep some more continuity, like, you know, Sabrina and Stewie in the starting lineup. You know the reason why, you know, another player, Kalia Kopper, another option. I think I wouldn't be shocked if she started as well. I do think like in the end, you know, I know Sabrina mentioned, you know, Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young. I think, you know, it's one of those scenarios where like keeping some continuity, I think on a second unit potentially is important. And we've seen continuity in like roster selection and so sure, you could obviously play one of them next to Chelsea Gray and make the argument that that's continuity too. But like Chelsea can play with Asia and you have continuity and then you can have two more aces coming off the bench and you know, have two players who know how to play with each other. So I think there's that. If I'm gonna throw one other wrinkle into all of this, then now I know I'm filibustering, rambling. We do have to remember it is an All Star game and that is for the fans. And so.
- [49:01]
E
Oh, good point.
- [49:02]
F
Shock you. Yeah, you know, injuries going on, Diana Taurasi and Brittney Griner. I know Kalia Kop are also Phoenix Mercury. There are only so many spots so we'll see how that goes. But Tarasi and Greiner, you know, Greiner, Olympic starters forever. Brittney Griner. Tarasi doesn't need to be stated anything about her resume. For the fans. Can you imagine the ovation that they would get if they were in the starting lineup in Phoenix? And, you know, I think any player on Team USA would understand that, making that choice, if that is the choice Cheryl Reeve makes.
- [49:37]
E
I mean, I understand that, Joyce. And you're absolutely right that this is in Phoenix. And, you know, starting three members of the Mercury is like, you know, just pandering at some point. 2D footprints under crowd. But it kind of begs the question of, like, what is Team USA hoping to get out of this game? Are they thinking of it as their, you know, first big test en route to Paris? Is it just, let's get, you know, some conditioning in, let's get some run in, you know, let's see if we can maybe bring back some of the sets we used at the April camp or, you know, in that Belgium Olympic qualifier. It all depends on, like, what their motivation is. Right? Because if you're trying to use this as a real test case for what does our group of 12 look like? I don't think you can start Diana Ka and BG together because you only have so many exhibition games up until Paris. And let's face it, I don't think the three of them are going to be starting together in Paris because as you mentioned, Asia Wilson, Stewie and Nafeesa Kali are pretty much guarantees in that starting lineup. So it kind of begs the question of, like, what is Sheryl Reeve trying to do here? Is she trying to put on a show? Like, we already saw what happened in 2021. We lost the game. It wasn't a big deal. We went on and did fine in Paris. Or is it, you know, this is a team that hasn't played together since April training camp, and even then, Chelsea wasn't healthy then. So I would like to see what we look like. I kind of lean towards the latter, even though it would be super fun in Phoenix. Like, maybe the compromise is you just start to rousey at the two and have the rest of that starting lineup we discussed.
- [51:01]
D
Now, the only thing that makes me nervous is if they decide to say, you know what? Let's just put on a show. We've done well in the past. We don't need to worry about looking exactly like we're going to look like in Paris. And God forbid they, like, win the first game. Closely, Right. Or something. The critics are going to be like, you should have taken All Stars seriously. You should have had your scar and eye up. This should have been an exhibition game. I just already. I can predict that. But we'll see what Sheryl Reeves is thinking. She told us, she told the media today she is a Lynx coach right now. She. That is the organization she is wearing. That's what she's focused on. So at the end of this week, we'll be able to ask her what she's thinking in terms of what to do for this game.
- [51:43]
F
One thing I think we also know won't happen. As you know, we. There's a lot we don't know, but I think this is a guarantee as it relates to Team USA. Kelsey Plumb is someone who, in the last two All Star games in particular, she scored 30 points in each of those games. She took 17 shots last year, 18 the year before. Someone who loves the moment and has one MVP in this game, I'm not so sure we're going to get like 18 shots out of Kelsey Plum in this game. We don't know what level to Team USA is going to play at, but I do imagine a little bit more, you know, even if they're only working out some of those rotations and figuring stuff out in spurts, you know, I think I have a hard time seeing like a Team USA player just, you know, taking 30 shots or having like a monster, monster, monster game because of that desire potentially just to test things out. So, you know, I think it's more likely we see that huge, huge numerical performance from the team WNBA player than the Team USA player.
- [52:46]
D
No, that completely makes sense. You know, as you guys are talking, I have more questions that are popping in my head. And I know I said two, but I got like five now. So let's just do it. First question, because I know some folks are going to have this question. What happens with those injuries if players can't play? Does another player come up into the. Onto the roster?
- [53:03]
E
So for the All Star team, like the WNBA team, they can easily just call in a replacement. I would think if it's more. If it's like less than three days before the game, they would just let everyone stay home and not require them to, you know, come out and potentially disturb their break schedule, unless they already happen to be in Phoenix. Um, but they, they would just aim a replacement and everybody gets the All Star bonus. Whoop dee doo. And with the Team usa, you know, knock on wood, if somebody ends up getting injured, they still have a window before the first group stage game. I think it's 48 hours before the game to change the absolute roster. So, you know, in the unlikely and.
- [53:38]
F
Unfortunate event that that happens in 2021, I think the historical comparison is 2021. Diana Taurasi, she was injured. You know, I think it was a sternum fracture and then a hip. A hip pointer injury. And she did not play in the All Star Game. And they were clear about that. There was no replacement that was needed. The kind of comment she had given was that she would be ready for. For real games at the Olympics was kind of the quote on that. And that is what happened. She did not play in that one and played in the Olympic Games. So, you know, I think that's the scenario on the Team USA side. If, you know, there are holdouts from any of these players we've just rattled off.
- [54:20]
D
Okay, good. Next question. You just mentioned Kelsey Plum dropped 30 in two All Star games. Who is the highest scoring player in a WNBA All Star game?
- [54:31]
F
That would be Jewel Lloyd, who last year scored 31 points just by one.
- [54:36]
D
Okay.
- [54:36]
F
Set the record. And yes, it was a battle going down in that game between her and Kelsey Plum. And Kelsey Plum had set the record of 30 points the year prior. Tied the record. Tied the record, exactly. It's a good point. Maya Moore had scored 30, I believe, also.
- [54:52]
D
Okay. I mean, I was wondering where Maya Moore was in this because I was like, my award.
- [54:57]
E
Three consecutive All Star MVPs in 20, 15, 17 and 18. So, yeah, she is factored prominently into All Star discussions.
- [55:04]
D
Got it. Cool, cool, cool. I'm just shocked that we're talking WNBA All Star and her name did not come up yet in terms of records and things of that sort. But okay, thank you for that, Sabrina. I didn't need to know that. And also thank you for the fact on Jewel Lloyd. Now, I also want to ask predictions, not scores, not necessarily starters, but things you are like, sure are gonna happen within the midst of that game. I'll tell you mine. I think BG is going to dunk.
- [55:35]
E
That was literally what I was about to say.
- [55:40]
D
Thinking the same thing. We're thinking the same thing. All right, Ben, what are you thinking is absolutely gonna happen at this game?
- [55:47]
F
I mean, we're definitely gonna get some Clark logo threes. I think that is a safe bet. I would bet on Jonquil Jones throwing a behind the back pass at a certain point. She's done that a lot in the regular season. It's the kind of pass you make in The All Star game. So I would expect we see that there. I've already said I'm betting the under on Kelsey Plum if the line is 30 points. So I think that is gonna happen. Those are I guess three predictions from, from me and yeah, some of the guard play. Again, I think Caleb McBride could be in for a big game. But the dunk I think is a very good call by, by you guys.
- [56:23]
D
Okay. All right. I also think between Dewana Bonner and Kayla McBride, I'm gonna go ahead and say eight threes minimum.
- [56:34]
E
Made or attempted?
- [56:36]
D
Made.
- [56:37]
E
Okay.
- [56:38]
D
Yeah, made. That's going to be another prediction of mine.
- [56:41]
E
I just, I look forward to the moment when Dewana Bonner has to guard Alyssa Thomas and what ensues from that.
- [56:48]
Ben
Yes, yes.
- [56:49]
E
We get more good tiktoks like Melissa Smith and Dijonay Carrington.
- [56:53]
D
Oh my God, this is going to be so good. This is, it's the stories within the stories, folks. That's what makes the WNBA so much fun and they are absolutely going to be on display this weekend. And my very last question before we go, what are you guys most excited for? Me personally, I'm super excited to meet Ben Pickman in person. We have been doing this show for almost a year and we have not met in person. So I'm very excited to meet Ben in person. What about you guys?
- [57:22]
E
Well, now Ben has to say he's excited to meet Xena at first.
- [57:25]
F
Yeah, I was going to say didn't.
- [57:27]
D
Mean to force you in a corner, Ben.
- [57:29]
F
I'm excited to see see both of you.
- [57:32]
D
There you go. There you go. What about you Sabrina? As you close the show?
- [57:36]
E
I want to see Jonquil Jones in a three point shootout. I want to see, you know, some bigs showing up. I want to see Stephanie Dolson in three point shootout. I don't know if it's going to happen. She's not an all star. She is leading the league in three point percentage as a center. You know, let's just have some fun. I want to see some, some bigs showing off their skills.
- [57:53]
D
I like it. You gotta be able to shoot in this league as a big orgar. What's up?
- [57:57]
F
Can I make one, Can I make one other thing that I would like to see? I would like to see if anyone has recommendations, food wrecks, things we should do in Phoenix. In any downtime, please tweet at us, you know, email us. Those are the best two ways to contact us. Let us know like where we should be eating, specifically what places we should be trying we don't have a lot of downtime to, you know, explore the Phoenix area, I would say, but you know, in the few meals and places times we can get away, I'll take any recommendations that we can get. That would, that would make for a great weekend for us. I think that's perfect.
- [58:31]
D
And tips on staying cool. Would love those as well. Well, Ben, Sabrina, thank you so much. And all of you tuning in, thank you. Appreciate you again. Hit that subscribe button on our show. As Ben was just mentioning. Leave us comments, send us emails. We love it. We love the feedback. If there's anything you want us to talk about topics we need to hit, questions you have, let us know. We absolutely adore hearing from our listeners. For now. For Ben, for Sabrina, I'm Zena Kada thanking you for your ear and encouraging you to keep listening, keep watching, keep learning and keep loving the game. Until next time.
- [59:22]
G
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J
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I
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But the thing we love most is being a place where you can laugh.
- [61:06]
I
A lot has changed in the last seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us.
- [61:11]
J
So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness.
- [61:19]
I
The Laugh Lines podcast will be all about aging together better and also being able to laugh about getting older.
- [61:26]
J
We hope you'll join us. Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness New episodes every Tuesday.
- [61:33]
E
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