← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Loading summary
Transcript98 lines
- [00:00]
Ebay Advertiser
Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners. But shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay authenticity guarantee. Ebay things people love.
- [00:32]
AWS Advertiser
Millions of players, one world no lag. How's it done? AWS is how epic games turn to AWS to scale to more than 100 million Fortnite players worldwide so they can stay locked in with battle tested reliability. AWS is how leading businesses power next level innovation.
- [01:00]
Rubrik Advertiser
AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation@rubrik.com that's R u b r-I k.com foreign.
- [01:45]
Zena Kada
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by ebay. I'm Zena Kada.
- [01:50]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [01:51]
Zena Kada
And today on the show we're going to dive into a crossover between women's basketball and golf and it's one worth paying attention to. We're going to break down how this connection is growing, why more players are hitting the course during the offseason and what that means for the visibility of both the WNBA and the lpga. And joining us for this conversation is the athletics golf writer Gabby Herzig, who has been following this trend closely. But first one week of college hoops is in the books. Sabrina's got her power rankings up on the site. Make sure that you go check that out. Now she's not with us today. So Ben and I are going to take a look at some of the teams and players that are making some big statements in those marquee games to start the season. Sabrina. So Ben, the thing that has been up and down my timeline, my heart is a little broken. I'm not gonna lie.
- [02:39]
Ebay Advertiser
Okay.
- [02:40]
Zena Kada
Because it looked like NC State was supposed to win this one, but no. USC upset NC State the other night and Sabrina has them ranked this week at number 10. Their freshman star, Jazzy Davidson Juju was on the bench while and out clapping. It up for her teammate because where the big hole that there was juju Jazzy is filling in very beautifully. She was big against NC State last Sunday, hitting the go ahead layup off of a super simple like just cutting in front of her defender right with 8.2 seconds left. But she did way more than that. She scored 21 points. She was on the floor, she was getting digging in. I mean she was everywhere. It was just so smooth for her after halftime. But first part of the game she had to get a little bit acclimated. We what are your thoughts on her being able to produce at a high level game in game out against top competition?
- [03:33]
Ben Pickman
I mean I highlighted this game Xena in the story that Sabrina and I wrote last Friday as just a game to watch because it really was the first test that USC had this season in kind of a hybrid intermediary year without juju Watkins. Right. It's what are we getting from this USC team that you know has no Watkins and had a number of other transfers between last season and this season. And you know why? Guess you can say they certainly pass because they beat a top 10 team in NC State in Charlotte. So you know, proverbial road game across the country for the Trojans. And I think the first thing that jumps out to me about Jassy Davidson so far it's just her length. Like you just watch her physically move around the court. You see her arms and her wingspan. It's what she is able to do just because of that. Right. She has five blocks in that game against NC State. Just disruptive. Whether she's guarding smaller players and then she can shoot over bigger players because of just how rangy she is. And that is the thing that to me jumps out and it allows her to kind of play at her own pace too because she's able to create space, she's able to elevate when she needs to. You mentioned it, she was 7 of 13 in the second half including that game winning finish. And yeah, there is still a lot to improve on. I mean her three point shooting still. Oh of seven for three in her career opener her first game against New Mexico State she was just 3 of 9 from 3 against NC State. So that in particular is one area where there's obvious room for improvement. But physically like sure looks like it's going to translate and she can already clearly be an impactful player and has that kind of craftiness that you want out of a big guard who's going to have the ball in her hands a lot this season.
- [05:05]
Zena Kada
Big Guard energy. You guys know I love talking about it. It's really transforming the way basketball is being played in both worlds. But it's really beneficial when you see the likes of like the length. You're talking about Paige Becker esque, right. Thinking about someone that can switch one through five. You're seeing the early aughts of that in Jazzy Davidson's game. So that's, that's a lot of uh, they did end up winning that game 69, 68 against NC State. Let's turn it over to Maryland. They've opened their season three and oh, Sabrina has ranked the Terps number 14 in her latest power rankings. Now early results looking good. Okay, the receipts are doing what they're supposed to do, but it is still very early in the season and we know there is way more awaiting them as the schedule unfolds. So how sustainable do you think this is for Maryland to continue once they're facing tougher opponents, especially when it comes to conference play?
- [06:00]
Ben Pickman
Well, I want to back up a sec too because we should say Maryland 3, 0 looks great, but they did almost lose on Sunday till they had one of the great quarters we might see all season long. Like they were trailing for most of the second and third quarter in their game against Georgetown and they go on outscore Georgetown 34 to 9 in that pretty explosive crazy run where you suddenly, oh, it's like, oh, should I tune into this game live? Or you start to see people tweeting like oh, Maryland on an upset alert. And then boom, by the time you, someone might have flipped over, it was a double digit game and they end up winning by 19 points. A blowout win. I think what was so impressive to me about what they did was again, they also have a number of freshmen who are making immediate contributions. I mean in that win over Georgetown. Adi Mack, you talk about big guards. Addie Mac, a little guard, I think she's just like 5, 8, 5 9. She scores 17 of her 23 points in the fourth quarter and she had multiple big and one finishes. The word that kept coming up was nifty. Like she just was nifty. Shifty and nifty like getting to the rim. A number of kind of scoop layups that I thought were really impressive and she just kind of kept moving. The thing I watched for big picture for a lot of these freshmen is how are they acclimating to the speed of the game? Right. And someone like Jazzy Davidson I think acclimated pretty back. Another player continued to move acclimated pretty well. She came from Minnesota. She averaged 34 points in high school. Like we know she can play. Pretty impressive. They also have Leah Bartelmu and she's a freshman guard from Slovenia who's playing a big role. And then of course we've talked about big transfers. You know, Alucia Konawa from Duke coming into Maryland. We mentioned her as kind of transfers to watch this year. Also playing an immediate big role for Maryland. I mean, they're clearly going to be a pretty good team. I know Sabrina and I like, I'm also voting in the AP Top 25 to start the year. And so rankings don't mean anything. Like I'm a little higher preseason and so they're higher. They're already in my top 10 right now. I know Sabrina has some ways to go with them, but you throw the numbers out. You just want to watch and see how teams are playing against important competition.
- [07:59]
Zena Kada
No, that makes complete sense. Yeah. And just to put into perspective, like Maryland went into the halftime 38, down 38, 31, won this game 85 to 66. And that is, that's big. The, the adjustments in game adjustments. That's really, really big. I know Brennan Freeze was very impressed with that, especially early on. Like the bigs couldn't convert, they were getting in foul trouble. It was just, they looked dis. They were able to kind of clean things up, particularly in the late parts of that game. So let's whip around again. We're keeping it going right now because it's NCAA season and there's a million games happening. But let's look at the Texas Longhorns. Okay. They came in at number four on Sabrina's rankings and they're two and O so far, carrying over same momentum from last season. We have talked about how good, how deep the SEC is shaping up to be this year. How do you see Texas sustaining this momentum? That's a big question because we know the SEC is going to be ridiculous. But just being able to do that in the non conference games and establishing themselves even before they get to the sec. What are your thoughts about that?
- [09:04]
Ben Pickman
Well, first, I just want to give Texas some credit for actually playing people because especially as we think about what to react to, what games to watch, like Texas, props to them for actually scheduling, you know, legitimate, high quality, difficult opponents. Right. They play Richmond, they'll play ucla, they'll play North Carolina, they'll play Taylor, they'll play South Dakota State. They'll do all that before SEC play begins. And we all know that the SEC is a Gauntlet. So credit to them for playing people so that we can both get entertaining games to watch but also learn more about what is going on around the sport. I think that needs to first be said. I think we're in alignment there. I agree.
- [09:42]
Zena Kada
Shout out. Because literally last year the only teams that you could really give that to was like shout out to Gina Oriema and Dawn Staley. But it's great to see Vic Schaefer following that same band, that pattern of real competition before even the competition begins. So what have you seen that allows them once they get into these games? Particularly like they went up against number 24, Richmond. They were able to get that win. But like, what have you seen that you've liked in their game?
- [10:06]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I think I like the depth that they've shown so far. It's not just Madison Booker, who, you know, had 22, 12 and six against Richmond. Again, Richmond, we've talked about him as one of the best mid major teams in the country. But they also have a freshman, Aaliyah Crompu. She scores 14 in that win over Richmond. She scores 10 in the third as the Longhorns blow the game open. I like the ball pressure that Brianna Preston, she was a guard who had one of her best moments in the NCAA tournament last year. She very much is like, they're trying to clone Rory Harmon who is still playing for Texas. But you know, Brianna Preston is basically the Rory Harmon clone who provides ball pressure and playmaking and has that same kind of aggressiveness, that same kind of tenacity on this Texas team. She scores nine points again in this win. Like there's just a lot of options. Jordan Lee plays pretty well. We can start to see like Texas has a little bit of depth and they still can defend at a very high level. It's why they were so dangerous last year. It's why they look like they're going to continue to be very dangerous this year too.
- [11:03]
Zena Kada
Yeah. No, to hold Richmond to under 60 points. Actually, both of their opponents that they've played so far, they've been able to keep under 60 points, turn Richmond over the way they did. 24 turnovers on the Spiders, scoring 26 points off of them. Who and what I really particularly like? You mentioned Jordan Lee, Aaliyah Crump. You mentioned Aaliyah Crump's a freshman. Jordan Lee is also a freshman. And you know, Brianna Stewart. Brianna Preston. Excuse me, Brianna Stewart. I'm getting excited. But Brianna Preston also like the youth, right? Like Rory Harmon is going to eventually graduate. She is A grad player with this team, but there's still youth on this team that is going to develop and grow. Loving the development and justice. Carlton, she took over, I believe the third quarter. It was like in each quarter you saw someone take over as well. And so depth all around. The distributed balance of this team is very exciting. Loving that for them. But just talk a little bit about the freshman. Jazzy, of course, is probably at the top of that list. Any other freshman we were like, we haven't mentioned just yet. As you're looking around the association.
- [12:07]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, Aaliyah Chavez is someone we've talked about at Oklahoma a number of times. There were a couple instances, you know, their start of the season where she clearly is aggressive, she clearly has confidence. She's attempted a number of stop and pop threes in transition and semi transition. I think she's someone who seems to me like still adjusting to the pace of the game when to attack the basket. Sometimes she would just take, you know, a couple quick dribbles, quick shots on the perimeter. I think that's kind of a learning experience for a number of players. Jalea Davis, someone we have not talked about on this show, Xena, she is a five star top 20 recruit going to Kansas and she was that program's highest ranked recruit that they have signed since ESPNW began tracking player rankings in 2007. She goes out and she scores 28 points against Northwestern State. Maybe not the best competition, but 10 of 15 shooting. I thought she was really impressive in 28 minutes, 28 points. She's a forward. She was clearly scoring over both shoulders in the post. I thought her footwork was pretty good. So that was another freshman performance that caught my eye. And then out west, I know we're just bouncing around coast to coast. A program that, you know, you spent a bunch of time around over the past couple years. Stanford, they have a number of high profile freshmen. I was just going to shout out the player who impressed me, which was Lara Shamfey from Australia. I believe she was a five star, number 12 player in the country. And she has two double doubles in three games. She's averaging a double double so far through her first three games. And that is a player like, you know, as Stanford looks for answers and they look to rebuild after a very bad and very down year last year by their standards. She is another name to watch, among others for the Cardinal, which is great.
- [13:47]
Zena Kada
Because a lot of these teams did need to rebuild. And in the transfer portal era, like that is where you gotta do some diligent work to get the new crop in. And I think Stanford, that was one of the things they really focused on. I mean, I think they brought in at least five or six freshmen. It's like a crazy large class. But you looked up and through the entire ncaa, you know, USC that we started talking about at the top of this show, they don't have any seniors.
- [14:15]
Rubrik Advertiser
Right.
- [14:15]
Zena Kada
Like, this is a team that's really dependent upon their youth. And so it's interesting how those balances are going to play out in different teams. I'm curious, are there any other teams, like as you watch games across the weekend, or just looked across in general, whether they were young, whether they had some continuity from their team last year, anyone that stood out in terms of like, okay, they are showcasing why it's important to have veterans or people that have played and been in these positions before. Anyone that stood out from that perspective?
- [14:44]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, one of the players that kind of caught my eye and this is someone who's actually in a new place from where they were last year. But Scott over at Baylor and they picked up, you know, one of the biggest wins of the season so far very early and there's been very few kind of ranked games. But Scott comes in and she made an immediate impact in Baylor's 5852 win over Duke. She had played just three games last season. You know, she's kind of bounced around in her first two college seasons. But she scores 24 points in that win for the, for Baylor over Duke, 15 of which came in the second half. She added five rebounds and really she's a five foot nine guard and her aggressiveness was on full display, breaking down the Blue Devil's defense, getting into the paint. She also took 10 free throw attempts, which were the second most in her career. So that was one player right off the bat that I think very much impressed me. And then we saw her, her kind of back it up in their second game of the season. Now they go from playing Duke to playing Lindenwood, a program that admittedly I have not watched a lot of this season or in past years. But she scores 29 points in that game. Again, there's room to be more efficient for her. She was just 7 of 18 in that opener and she had five turnovers against Lindenwood. So there is certainly room for growth. But think about a more experienced player coming in and making an impact. I mean, that is exactly what we have seen from Baylor. And Nikki Collins, the head coach of that team, she said it after they beat Duke, she said down the stretch you saw why Scott is at Baylor and you see the value of having veteran guards in moments like that. And she is an instant impact player who certainly has caught my eye.
- [16:14]
Zena Kada
Yeah, I also, I did not watch the Linda One game, but I did watch that Duke game and I specifically remember Talia Scott. They were tied at the end of the third and it was Talia Scott that came out and I believe it was a steal and layup. I think she had, she had 24 points, as you mentioned, 12 of them came in that fourth quarter like she was for real for them. And there is something to be said about, you know, being here before, doing things like that before. Um, and so that's a great fit and a great walk around the ncaa. My God. Ben Pickman, applause for you. Thank you for catching us up. We got a lot of games to watch, so we'll talk a little bit about that later in the show. But first, let's get to Gabby.
- [16:54]
Ebay Advertiser
Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddlebag you ripped out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over. Or something like The Cecily Banson GT2160s that sold out in five seconds.
- [17:31]
Zena Kada
Yeah, those.
- [17:33]
Ebay Advertiser
It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love.
- [17:56]
AWS Advertiser
Millions of players, one world, no lag. How's it done? AWS is how epic games turn to AWS to scale to more than 100 million Fortnite players worldwide. So they can stay locked in with battle tested reliability. AWS is how leading businesses power next level innovation.
- [18:24]
Stripe Advertiser
This episode is sponsored by Stripe. 1.3%. It's a small number, but in the right context it's a powerful one. Stripe processed just over $1.4 trillion last year. That figure works out to about 1.3% of global GDP. And powering that figure are millions of businesses finding new ways to grow on stripe like Salesforce OpenAI and Pepsi. Learn how to build the next era of your growth@swepe.com enterprise.
- [19:04]
Zena Kada
All right, so here's something fun and maybe new for some of our listeners to watch this week. Caitlin Clark is trading in her sneakers for some golf spikes. She'll be teeing it up in the LPGAs the Onika Pro Am on Wednesday, November 12 at the Pelican Golf Club down in Bel Air, Florida. Joining us now to break it all down and bring us into the world of golf is the athletic golf writer Gabby Herzig. Gabby, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate you making the time. Of course.
- [19:32]
Gabby Herzig
Guys, we love a little crossover episode between golf and basketball. So I'm very excited to break it all down.
- [19:39]
Zena Kada
So it's really cool that Caitlin Clark is going to be a part of this. She is honored to be an ambassador for gamebridge and then also, of course, the, you know, tournament in itself. And we've seen the benefit of having celebrities be a part of these events just because it's fun to follow it, but it also helps elevate, I would assume, just visibility overall. How does having someone like a Caitlin Clark, with the fame she has, with the success she has, and also the brand she has as a great athlete help translate onto an event like the Anika Pro Am and also the LPGA at large?
- [20:13]
Gabby Herzig
Yes. So the Annika is an annual tournament on the lpga. So if people don't know how the LPGA works, it's basically a year long circuit for female professional golfers. So there are tournaments all over the world and at this time of year, it's what's called the Florida swing. So they go to a bunch of different courses in the Florida area and this one's in Tampa at Pelican Golf Club. And the Pro Am is actually the event that happens the day before the tournament starts. So basically while the pros are practicing getting to know the golf course, they invite celebrities, VIPs, executives that are involved in like the title sponsor of the tournament to come and play with the pros. And it's a big, it's a huge opportunity for like networking for the tour because they do have those high profile guests that are important to, like, the Tour's survival financially, but then also to gain eyeballs and, you know, attention for the event, they tend to invite celebrities and pro athletes like Caitlin Clark. So the reason she got involved in this one in the first place is because I believe she's an ambassador for gainbridge, which is the title sponsor of the event. And it Kind of worked out perfectly because it's off season. You know, I know she's been recovering from an injury, but it's, it's perfect timing for someone like her to come and play in one of these things.
- [21:30]
Zena Kada
The Pro Am in itself. Like reading the article about this $3.5 million purse. These aren't some like little coins being involved here. I love that this is a big deal and there's a lot of prestige around the Annik program. And if you're brand new to this, you might be thinking, oh, did it become this level or get to this level because of Caitlin Clark's involved. But there's been celebrities involved. There's been a little bit more like than just Caitlyn in terms of elevating this to the public eye and being able to see more, I guess, more normally, average sports fans are like, oh wait, Caitlin Clark's playing golf. Let me tune in. Do you think that her involvement is helping raise up the Annika program or are they like, listen, she's one of our average ones. We're just trying to bring her on board with what we, we typically do around here.
- [22:19]
Gabby Herzig
I think it for sure elevated just like people's awareness of the event the actual purse is for is reserved for the four day tournament that the professionals are playing in. The Pro Am is kind of just more of a hit and giggle fun exhibition event, which is what Caitlyn is playing in. So it's one day, one off, more so for like the photo ops and the content than the actual competition. But I think for sure last year we saw a bump in just the amount of people talking about the tournament and that's exactly what the sponsor is looking for by inviting someone like Caitlin. But over the past few years we have seen huge purse increases on the lpga, which has been an ongoing trend. But I think that inviting someone like Caitlin and having those names associated with the event can never hurt. And it's just good from a social media engagement standpoint for the lpga. And it's a really nice bump to have someone like her involved.
- [23:12]
Ben Pickman
I mean, we literally saw it last year. Gabby, right? Caitlin Clark plays in this event. A year ago this was at that time her second Pro Am event. And I want to say it was Golf Channel was broadcasting it and they, yes, they like live streamed her on the range, warming up and they had cut ins during the actual Pro Am or I guess their normal golf coverage to the Pro Am. And I can't really remember another example of like a networking their Tuesday Wednesday practice. Round coverage for an amateur golfer.
- [23:42]
Gabby Herzig
No, it's. It's amazing. It's amazing. I mean, we've seen other, like, pro athletes tee it up in professional events. Like Steph Curry has played in a Korn Ferry Tour event. Tony Romo has done the same thing. But this was next level treatment, I think, just because of the Caitlin Clark hype that was last year. And also this is a time in the golf season where there's typically not a lot going on. So it was like the perfect storm of an opportunity to make it a big, big deal for everyone.
- [24:08]
Ben Pickman
You mentioned Steph, you mentioned Tony romo. We know J.J. redick in the NBA. I mean, there's so many athletes across all sports who have developed this obsession with golf. And maybe it's just people are talking about it more now. But why do you think that is? These highly competitive athletes are getting into this sport in a way that seemingly they haven't before.
- [24:29]
Gabby Herzig
Yeah, definitely. I think it's something we talk about all the time, which is like the mental side of golf. And I genuinely think the reason why professional athletes, especially former professional athletes, are so into picking up golf is because it is this endless pursuit of excellence and perfection that you're just never going to achieve. Golf is such a difficult sport that even the pros can play the best round of their lives and still only hit like two or three shots perfectly solid. And you're kind of always chasing that feeling of like a perfect strike, a great putt, a perfect driving day. Like there are so many pillars of the game too, that it's like very rare that all of them are working at the same time. So there's always something to be pushing towards, is driving towards. So I think that is like the overarching reason why a lot of other athletes are interested in golf. But in terms of the recent momentum, I. I would have to point to Covid and the pandemic. I mean, I think so many people picked up golf during that time when it was really the only time, the only activity that people could do while social distancing and it was outdoors and it was great for people's mental health. And I feel like we're still seeing the effects of that just play out in. In terms of the popularity of golf.
- [25:44]
Ben Pickman
Do you also think, like, there's some credence and we've seen some people talk about it and I think this does fall under the Caitlin Clark, like her getting good at golf to shooters in particular, like basketball players who are shooters, because there's an obsessiveness that goes along with being an elite shooter. About your follow through, about your base, about how you jump, about where your elbows are, about the mental fortitude you met. You talk about the mental side of the game, like the mental strength it takes to be an elite shooter to continue to shoot despite what has happened before and what you think might happen going forward. Like there's a diligence involved there that you also need when that little white ball is just sitting on the tee or sitting in the fairway or for so many of these players sitting in the rough, so many of us, I should not even say these novices sitting in the rough like that. You just need to have that diligence to do the same thing over and over and over again.
- [26:36]
Gabby Herzig
Yeah, totally. I think there's also, I mean, I've never been an elite basketball player, but just from like playing the game a little bit in middle school and high school, like, I feel like when you're a shooter, a really good shooter, there's, and people talk about this, there's almost like a bit of a trance that comes over you while you're shooting and it feels like you're blacking out almost and just like your body is taking over. And it's very reactionary, which is how a lot of golfer lovers describe like being in the zone as well. It's kind of like just cruise control mode. And I also think about shooting free throws. Like, I feel like that's a really interesting mental exercise of like your routine, like how many times you dribble or like how many times you look up at the basket. It's the exact same thing for golfers in like a three foot putt. It's pretty much the same mental exercise where it's like, it should be automatic, but then sometimes when the pressure settles in, like everything can just go away. And that's when things like the yips come in or some of those mental blocks that, that athletes develop over time.
- [27:34]
Zena Kada
Oh, the yips. The. Yeah, you just get a little bit of a head.
- [27:37]
Gabby Herzig
What is basketball's version of that?
- [27:39]
Zena Kada
We don't call it the yips. I mean a lot of people call it, if you're a shooter, it's, you know, a shooting slump. Right? Yeah, I think that's the most like we, we typically, you're just afraid.
- [27:48]
Ben Pickman
You're just afraid to shoot the basketball. Like someone who just like hot, like you're just hot potatoing it. Like that's the equivalent sometimes when you see a guard who like doesn't want to shoot and they just hot potato it, they get it and immediately give to the next person because it doesn't matter how much space they have, they're, they're not going to take that shot.
- [28:04]
Zena Kada
Yeah, the average person just say you're defaulting as opposed to being more aggressive. But I, I love this kind of comparison between the, the, the competitive athlete and golf. As someone that has tried to golf, particularly putting, oh my God, it is the worst experience because you feel like this should be really easy, yet it's incredibly difficult. And I love that there's a respect factor there because of the work necessary to get really good, get really good at, you know, your craft. And this crossover we're seeing happen in so many different sports. One the way we've been seeing it though for so long has been so and so is courtside at this game. Right. Like we'll see Jordan Chiles at a WNBA game or we'll see these WNBA players, you know, at the track event that happened in New York recently. Like there's been a crossover in that way. But this is a very unique one in that, you know, Caitlyn's being able to play in the pro Am. So tell us a little bit about like, who is she going to be going up against? Like I hear some of her Indiana Fever teammates might, might also be making an appearance.
- [29:05]
Gabby Herzig
Oh, really? Okay. I didn't know that, but that's great news.
- [29:08]
Ben Pickman
I think that was their caddies, Gabby.
- [29:13]
Zena Kada
Yeah.
- [29:13]
Ben Pickman
Wow.
- [29:13]
Gabby Herzig
Well, that's going to be awesome because like, caddy player dynamics are pretty hilarious. Like there's, you know. Well, first of all, like, it's, this is a very fun, light hearted event for her to be playing in. But if she would want to eventually get more serious about golf, like having a good caddy who knows how to talk to you, knows how to give you the right advice is like so important in golf. It's almost like being in a relationship with the person. And when you hear about caddy player splits on the PGA Tour, it's basically like hearing about a breakup.
- [29:40]
Zena Kada
It's like it could be devastating.
- [29:42]
Ben Pickman
Yeah.
- [29:42]
Gabby Herzig
100 and so that's, that's super fun. But yeah, I know. I think, I think this is unique. Golf is unique because, you know, it's one of those sports that so many people play recreationally and you know, I think you can draw the same parallels with basketball, like people playing pickup in the park or playing in rec leagues. But golf is like one of those things where you sit down and you watch it and you really like are relating to what's going on out there. Like, Tiger woods can hit a nine iron to 15ft, and you can go out and do the same exact thing the next day. You might not hit. Hit every single shot like that, but you can have one that replicates it. So that's always been the unique thing, I feel like, about the appeal of golf. And that's what makes something like this so compelling, because you're seeing, you know, this incredible star athlete that, like, has these incredible skills that no one can replicate, but then becoming, like, the more relatable version of herself out there on the golf course.
- [30:33]
Zena Kada
And it's cool because there's a little bit of. There's a parallelism in terms of the growth right now, the. That women's golf, particularly. But golf in general is having. With the boom that we've seen around the time that Caitlin Clark entered the league, of course. Right. And so there's this growth that's happening, this surge in popularity around the WNBA as well as the lpga. Like, how would you describe this moment that the LBGA is having in comparison to what the WNBA has had? And are there particular players that come to mind? Like, we think of a Caitlin Clark for the women's basketball world that is also the same case in women's golf?
- [31:07]
Gabby Herzig
Totally. Totally. I would say, in general, the LPGA is, like, desperately in need of their Caitlin Clark moment. And I say that with, you know, the utmost respect for what they're doing over there. But there is, like, this kind of lack of the one big star right now you have. Nelly Korda is. I think she's actually number two player in the world right now, but she's been the number, number one name on the LPGA for the last three years at least. And last year, she made major headlines because she won five tournaments in a row, which is pretty unheard of. It was. It broke record. It made history. It was just really remarkable to see because. 140 or 100, yeah, usually around 140 players teed up in each one of the events. Imagine being the top player at the end of five of those in a row. So that was pretty insane to see, but it didn't have the same mass impact as the Caitlin Clark boom did. And I think, obviously, golf is not basketball. It's a much more niche sport. It's a smaller audience. These characters and athlete Personas aren't transcending the golf bubble as much. And I think that the sport can learn a lot from what happened with Caitlin Clark in terms of maximizing Those stars potential. And there's been just not quite the right infrastructure there on the LPGA Tour yet to make something like that happen. And it could have happened with Nelly, which is kind of unfortunate that it didn't. And this year she. She's playing really well, but she hasn't won. So it's stalled out a little bit. And I think there needs to be some kind of resurgence either with her or with another player for us to really get to that level, I would say.
- [32:46]
Ben Pickman
How much do you feel like that is because of, I don't know, either cultural crossover or just how people consume golf? Like, you know, I think about it on the men's side right now too. There's a big moment of Internet golf, and I know this is something that you've written about, just amateurs filming themselves playing, you know, the nicest courses in the world. And some of these videos get like hundreds of thousands, millions of views. You know, I guess in the WNBA context we should say Ryan Howard and Alicia Gray of the Atlanta Dream. They actually recently started a YouTube channel called ATL Vibes with the T being T E E. So a little bit of a golf city pun where they just film themselves playing and they have shot tracer off the tee and, you know, there's a little score bug, like just showing how they're doing and how many shots they're on a given hole. To me, like, that is their attempt to break into the golf content space. But what role does you think, like online golf, you know, YouTube golf play and potentially growing the women's game in particular, and using that example.
- [33:45]
Gabby Herzig
Absolutely. Actually, just the other day, Grant Horvat, who's one of the biggest golf creators, filmed a video with Nelly Corda. And it was, you know, a head to head match kind of style, experimenting with. There's this horrible, horrible thing that goes around on the Internet every year, which is these anonymous men on Twitter claiming that they can beat an LPGA player from the red tees. It's maddening. So he's trying to debunk that myth, which is amazing. So I love that for him. But I feel like the LPGA can learn a lot from YouTube Golf in that it's not just about the excellent level of play anymore that people want to watch. It's more about the personalities and really getting to know these golfers. Like, the reason why people watch a group like Bob does sports, like, many of those guys are like, you know, 15 handicaps, 20 handicaps. So it's not like we're watching like amazing golf Here you're more so watching them have fun and banter with each other and like display their personalities on the course. And it's more of like a, a way to drive engagement in terms of connecting with human beings, not connecting with like high level athleticism. So I think the LPG can, can take a lot from that in terms of marketing their players better, telling the stories better. There's a lot of factors also that put them like a few steps back, which is the TV windows aren't great, they play all over the world. There's a large part of the schedule that happens in, in Asian countries. So for an American audience, like those events are happening in the middle of the night. There's so much depth of talent on the tour right now that this year there weren't any repeat winners across the entire LPGA schedule. A different player won every single tournament, which is amazing. But it also is hard to like create stars that way.
- [35:32]
Zena Kada
It's really hard to create narratives when you don't have the repetitive dominance from particular players. This is why Caitlin Clark was able to separate herself in that way, totally being, you know, a ridiculous three point shooter and winning games at Iowa. But I also, I think we'd be remiss to also mention, like this connection with the WNBA is also particularly special from the. The racial component. Like golf has always been a predominantly white sport. Country clubs are hard to get into. It's not an accessible type of sport in terms, you know, financially even. And being able to have a crossover with, you know, Ryan Howard and Alicia Gray. Getting into a sport that, that predominantly hasn't had people that look like them involved in it, I think is a really cool thing that the LPGA can tap into in terms of a new community, new support system and being able to develop a new lane. We, we talked earlier in this in the show about, you know, Steph Curry, for example, getting involved in, in golf. One of the first things he did was sponsor the Howard University well known HBCU men's golf team. Like, this is the opportunity to be able to expand beyond just the typical audience that GOL had. And I think the women's space is like the perfect place to start because there is so much synergy and like community in that way.
- [36:50]
Gabby Herzig
Totally, totally. I think the accessibility has been a huge thing that's grown over the past couple years. Also with Steph Curry, he not only sponsored the Howard golf teams, but he has a junior golf tour for junior golfers of all different backgrounds. And it's been really incredible to see the Growth that he's created on that level as well, because it really does start with, with the junior level. I mean, golf, as you guys know, is a hard thing to pick up later in life. So the more programming that you have around getting, you know, diverse children together to play the game is. Is super cool. Like, the First Tee program is huge in the US for getting kids involved. But, yeah, I 100% agree. I mean, Tiger woods for much of the last three, you know, two decades was that figure of, like the representative for the black community of, you know, getting into golf and having that person to look up to. But there wasn't much, you know, others to. To do the same thing.
- [37:46]
Zena Kada
As a general sports fan, I can't name another, like, dominant black golfer. And so, I mean, I'm not saying that Ryan Howard and Alicia Gray are gonna be the next predominant golfers.
- [37:56]
Gabby Herzig
No, but it's true. It's true for sure.
- [37:58]
Zena Kada
Basketball fans that has that diverse community already represented. That's pretty cool that this could be an entryway, an entry point into it. Yeah.
- [38:06]
Gabby Herzig
And just breaking down like the stereotype of golf just being a white, stuffy, buttoned up sport that has this barrier of entry, like seeing other athletes from those backgrounds get into the game and enjoy it and be able to play it. It's just a great thing all around.
- [38:21]
Zena Kada
Yeah.
- [38:22]
Ben Pickman
In terms of other parts of the comparison, Gabby, how do you compare. Just the working conditions, I guess, is the phrase we've heard a lot of in the wnba, CBA right now, throughout that negotiation. Just the player experience, how players are treated in the LPGA. How does that compare with five, 10 years ago? And how does that compare with some other kind of major professional women's sports leagues?
- [38:45]
Gabby Herzig
I think it's up.
- [38:46]
Zena Kada
It's.
- [38:47]
Gabby Herzig
I think it's solid, honestly. Especially with the way that the purses have increased on the LPGA. Like, the winner of the US Women's Open gets $2 million. I believe now it's rapidly rising. You can. I could pull up a few statistics, but the way the prize money has increased has been remarkable to see. I think where, like, the LPGA has room for improvement is just the attention that it gets from a media perspective and those tv, Windows. And, you know, if there's something on the PGA Tour that, like, needs a schedule shift, it'll always take precedence over the lpga, which just sucks, honestly. Even if it's like the biggest event of the year. There are certain ways that the LPG has been screwed over in the past, but players like, generally are. Are Happy, I think with the way that the LPGA is run on a day to day basis, like the locker room setups, the courses where they get to travel. But I think they are more so frustrated with the governance of the LPGA and the way that like there's been kind of that stalling of growth.
- [39:48]
Ben Pickman
Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I guess before we get you out of here, we'll end on one fun one. We've thrown around some names, I guess, who are in this crossover. Lexi hall also will golf for Sabrina Yescu, I know is also a golfer. She spent all last offseason working on it. She interestingly plays golf lefty, though. She shoots righty so that we could do a whole nother conversation about that. Yeah, there's a more, you know, fact, you know, I'm going to throw this to both of you in two different ways. Xena, obviously you play college basketball. Gabby played college golf for all those who might just be meeting her for the first time. So I guess, Gabby, why don't you start with answering what golfer do you think would be make a great basketball player or a good basketball player? And then, Xena, I'm putting you on the spot about what basketball player not of the people that I threw out do you think would make a good golfer? So, Gabby, why don't you hit it first?
- [40:37]
Gabby Herzig
Yeah, I think immediately the first person that comes to mind, and I'm kind of ignoring like the height factor here, I'm thinking pure athleticism is Charlie Hull and if you will, don't know who she is. She is, I think, a top five player in the world right now.
- [40:51]
Zena Kada
No relation to Lexi.
- [40:53]
Gabby Herzig
No relation to Lexi. She's British. She absolutely rips the ball. She's an incredible player. But she has this amazing passion for fitness in the gym. And she's more concerned about how fast she could run her 5k than the round of golf that she's playing the next day. So she would be great, I think, in terms of keeping the stamina required to play a game of basketball, whereas a lot of golfers, I think, don't necessarily have that. So I'm going with Charlie.
- [41:21]
Zena Kada
I'm going with Charlie. Okay. All right. Yeah, you put me on the spot here. But there's only one person that immediately comes to mind. Nafeesa Collier. And the reason why, even though she's very tall, and let's just be real, being tall is not helpful, I think in golf, like the bend over at the, at the trunk is painful, but there is something to nafisa's touch. Right. Whether she's shooting outside, whether she's in the paint, she's incredibly. She could be very delicate and. And Nafisa is also really patient and you need that for golf. So I think her temperament works for golf as well. So I'm gonna go with Nafeesa Collier in case she's not too busy running unrivaled and handling CBA negotiations. She can pick that up on the weekends.
- [42:06]
Ben Pickman
It's a good spot to play Xena down in Florida at unrivaled.
- [42:09]
Zena Kada
There you go. Oh, right, Exactly. She can go get some rounds in while she's getting her free time from that. But Gabby, this is awesome. Thank you so much. For one covering the story. I think it's really cool to be able to see the cross over, to see the impact that someone in a completely different sport can have on just the visibility and the elevation of a big event like the Annika Pro am again on November 12. It's happening, right?
- [42:34]
Gabby Herzig
Yes, it'll be. Well, it'll be on.
- [42:36]
Zena Kada
Yeah.
- [42:36]
Gabby Herzig
Wednesday, November 12th.
- [42:37]
Zena Kada
Wednesday, November 12th.
- [42:38]
Gabby Herzig
My day is mixed up.
- [42:40]
Zena Kada
No, you're good, you're good. We just want to make sure people can tune in this week. So awesome to have you. We'll definitely have you back in case we hear that Nafisa has picked something up or maybe Ryan Howard is trying her best Tiger woods impression. I don't know. We'll see. This has been awesome. Thanks, Gabby.
- [42:55]
Gabby Herzig
Thank you guys so much for having me. This is awesome.
- [43:00]
Ebay Advertiser
Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting thing, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved fines from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay authenticity guarantee. Ebay things people love.
- [43:33]
Stripe Advertiser
300 sensors, over a million data points per second. How does F1 update their fans with every stat in real time? AWS is how from fastest laps to strategy calls, AWS puts fans in the pit. It's not just racing. It's data driven innovation at 200 miles per hour. AWS is how leading businesses power next level innovation.
- [44:02]
T-Mobile Advertiser
Introducing family freedom from T Mobile. We'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com family freedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card. Typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement. Example Apple iPhone 16, 128 gigs $829.99 eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits. End imbalance due if you pay off early or cancel Contact us.
- [44:38]
Zena Kada
Oh, that was such a great combo, Ben. I don't know if Sabrina also had something to do with this, but I don't know who suggested that. Very happy to have Gabby come and break that down for us and hopefully have her back and see, you know, who else is picking up a nine. A nine round. A nine iron.
- [44:56]
Ben Pickman
A nine iron.
- [44:57]
Gabby Herzig
Nine iron. Thank you.
- [44:58]
Zena Kada
Nine iron. I do not know golf guys. I literally own a set of clubs and I do not know these things. But you know, I might be influenced. I might be influenced. Speaking of influence, we need to influence you guys on what you should be watching. Shout out to Michael Coley who wrote it to us on Blue sky asking like, hey, there's a lot of games right now and there's a lot of games that seem like they don't matter. There's blowout scores. You're just kind of like, what should we be watching? What should we really be assessing to evaluate if a team is good or not or how they're doing? I get you, Michael. We completely understand and that's why we gotta bring something back that we used to do for the WNBA season when things were a little bit more condensed and a little bit easier. And that is set your screens. Yes.
- [45:43]
Ebay Advertiser
Don't know if you have a sound.
- [45:44]
Zena Kada
But we're gonna get one if we don't because it's a thing. And we're gonna keep doing it all throughout the NCAA season. So Ben, we gotta tell people where to set their screen. You started off starting off today and then we'll close it out for the rest of the weekdays at least this week.
- [46:01]
Ben Pickman
Week, yeah, it's kind of a mixed slate this week. Not as many high profile midweek games as we might see going forward. We're still very much in the early non conference schedule so we use all that as a preamble to say, you know, some of the better games of the week are again end of the week and onto the weekend. But for Tuesday night game, keep an eye out on Clemson South Carolina. That's at 6pm Eastern on ESPN2. Clemson, a program that Sean Poppy, a second year coach there, there long time Virginia Tech assistant, then goes to Chattanooga. They make the tournament in each of his two years there, then now his second year with the Tigers trying to build up a program. And South Carolina is South Carolina obviously a team to watch. Keep an eye on Joyce Edwards. We've talked a lot about her. And then on Wednesday, Colorado versus Louisville is one other game to watch. That's at 7pm Eastern on ACC Extra. Again, I don't know if anyone has YouTube TV out there. I don't know how you watch ACC Extra. Do you need YouTube TV? But that is another game to watch. Louisville, we have seen play UConn and you know they lost that game but were competitive for stretches. So look for them to continue to bounce back after that season opening loss.
- [47:07]
Zena Kada
Okay. And then keep it going on Thursday. And I think this is the only one that's technically between two opponents that are both ranked. UNC going up against ucla. In the piece that you and Sabrina wrote, Ben, first question was like, do you have any teams that you have concerns about?
- [47:22]
Gabby Herzig
You were like, you know, not really.
- [47:24]
Zena Kada
I'm pretty good right now. Sabrina was like ucla little bit concerned about what y' all look like right now, especially with some of the absences going on in the in the front court losses and trying to figure out how are they going to compensate for that. And then unc, we know they like to get up in people's grills trying to see how that is going to impact ucla, trying to impose their dominance that they had last year. Can they continue that going on? So UNC UCLA, that will be happening 9pm Eastern on ESPN2. And then we got Duke versus West Virginia on Friday, November 14, ESPNU 7pm Eastern. Duke's been a little bit of a problem spot as well. Their offense, particularly in the half court hasn't looked as good. We know Oluchi Okinawa has no is no longer with the program, but they're still Jaden Donovan been in the mix. We know Reagan Richardson has graduated. The defense isn't looking the same as it was, offense isn't looking the same as it was and West Virginia is rebuilding on their end. Got a lot of transfer guards, a lot of veterans as well. And so trying to see what that matchup is going to look like as Carol Lawson's team continues to be challenged and they try to find their footing. I particularly wanted to see Toby Fourier just continue to grow into her role as a leader and a leading scorer on that Duke team. So they're coming up on Friday. Got a game for you every night of the week, y'.
- [48:48]
Gabby Herzig
All.
- [48:48]
Zena Kada
That's what we do. That's why you're here. That's why you're listening to us. But that's all for today. We gotta close it out. Shout out to Gabby Herzig. Thank you so much for joining us. Um, Ben Pickman, thank you for taking us around the ncaa. Sabrina will be back at the end of this week, so make sure you guys come in and come back. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss it. Let your friends know if you don't know where to put your TVs to. We got you. That's what we're here for. If you need to find out about freshmen at Kansas that we haven't watched like myself, thank you for putting me on. That's what we're here for. So you definitely subscribe. Make sure you are locked in and go over to our partner Yahoo Sports. We've got the sports.yahoo.com women's sports for the Yahoo Sports hub and we've got a survey up. Please go fill out that survey. Let us know what you like, what you don't like. We want to hear from you. So on behalf of the athletic Gabby Herzig, Ben Pickman, I'm Zena Kada thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. Time no Off Season is hosted by Zena Ka with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cashes Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations.
- [50:23]
Xero Advertiser
Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Xero. That's X E R O. With our easy to use accounting software with automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed US customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Xero with an x or visit xero.comacast to start your 30 day free trial. Conditions apply.
- [50:54]
Grainger Advertiser
Want to change the efficiency game? AI it automate tedious tasks to spend more time time on the future. Transform the everyday with Siemens if you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering ordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.