← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
How This New Rule Will Change The WNBA's Future
01:08:11
Loading summary
Transcript137 lines
- [00:01]
Circa Sports Announcer
The World Soccer Championship takes over the globe and there's only one place to watch it. Circa Resort and Casino from June 11 through July 19, experience every game at Las Vegas's premier viewing destination. Catch the action on three levels at Circa Sports or take it in poolside at Stadium Swim, where a massive 143 foot screen and live game sound puts you right inside the action. The World Soccer Championship booked today at circa las vegas.com
- [00:33]
Capital One Bank Guy / Jake Stauch
with no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC
- [01:04]
Annie Constable
this
- [01:04]
Monday.com / Stamps.com Advertiser
is a Monday.com ad. The same Monday.com helping people worldwide getting work done faster and better. The same Monday.com designed for every team and every industry. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.com that your team will actually love using the same Monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. Yes, the same Monday.com
- [01:36]
Zena Caida
why would you not take advantage of having these extra players that are available for practice, that are available in case someone gets hurt when we know just how important health is in the wnba? Why would you not take advantage of these options, these spots?
- [01:52]
Annie Constable
Yeah, it's honestly a really great question because it seems like a no brainer, but the sense that I've gotten from people around the league and it varies from team to team but the overall sense is you don't want to bring somebody in just to bring somebody in. You there's an intention behind it. Is there the time to develop them? One, do you see this player as a potential long term asset to develop? And then three, it's about culture as well.
- [02:31]
Zena Caida
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Caida.
- [02:34]
Annie Constable
I'm Annie Costable.
- [02:36]
Sabrina Merchant
And I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [02:38]
Zena Caida
And today on the show a lot of you out there had some questions about developmental players in the W. What are they exactly? How can teams use these players and what happens when a developmental player reaches her game limit? We're going to break it all down. But first, what a weekend. Couple of things happen in the world of Sports, you know, little bit of World cup football, soccer, whatever you'd like to call it, you know, kicked off, there's a little, I don't know, NBA championship one Knicks in five. I just have go, New York, Go New York, go. Like multiple in my mind right now. Annie, you're in New York. I'm just shocked. The city. The city is still existing thing. I can't only imagine what the vibes are like. What are they from your purview? She's at a loss for words. Y' all speechless?
- [03:32]
Annie Constable
No.
- [03:33]
Sabrina Merchant
It's unprecedented in the history of anti gospel.
- [03:36]
Annie Constable
It's actually been insane to witness the slow build to the mayhem that ensued after the Knicks won game five. And when they actually like the buzzer sounds and everyone floods into the streets. I was in midtown Manhattan, not far from Madison Square Garden, and I've never felt more my age than when I was like, swarmed into this, like, mass group of people. Because I was just looking around and I was so concern for all these youngsters out there. Like, when they were up on the poles, I was like, oh, no, I'll get you up there. And then, you know, others were like, lighting things on fire.
- [04:23]
Sabrina Merchant
And I'm like, no, no, don't do that.
- [04:26]
Annie Constable
So, yeah, after a certain period of time, I was like, it's time for me to get out of here. You guys enjoy. But the city, the emotions of this city and the collective, like, exhale and joy of this, you know, half a century long in the making title is just so, so special. And let me say, I am a Chicago fan through and through. I am not here to adopt the Knicks and be some fair weather fan, but I am happy for the fans of New York that they are getting to experience this. It's been really cool.
- [05:07]
Zena Caida
I agree. I absolutely agree with that. And I love all the different ways in which everyone's gotten involved in this. Like even the New York Liberty creating a distraction video in their locker room for the Spurs. Hilarious. Bravo, ladies. Well done. They were indeed distracted in the second half of every game they played, so I will just have to say they did their job there. Of course. Now, this is a women's basketball podcast, and I appreciate you guys calling that on our last week's episode too. And there's a lot going on in that part of the world, and that's why we're going to talk about that. Right, Sabrina, I believe you called this week WNBA's chaos era, which I loved as well. We're going to drop into that because of how many Games ended in crazy overtimes or final possessions, buzzer beating shots, et cetera. But one big thing that happened this week that we got to touch on first Sunday, New York Liberty clinched their spot in the Commissioner's Cup Final when they defeated the mystics 86, 64. And Briana Stewart was just denying everyone's existence out on the floor. Uh, Annie, you were in the building. Did it feel like the energy was a little bit different because of what the Knicks did on Saturday night? Going into Sunday, it was just like, we cannot lose. We are New York. Did that feel like that at all?
- [06:26]
Annie Constable
That was the energy of, like, we can't lose. We are New York. There was more of an energy of, like, we're so happy for the Knicks that they're experiencing something like we did first. Like, Jonquil Jones came into the post game press conference.
- [06:42]
Zena Caida
That's real.
- [06:43]
Annie Constable
It wasn't, like, sassy. It wasn't, like, spiteful by any means, but it was like, okay, cool. Like, they kind of welcomed to this greatness, essentially, and just also, I would say pride in what the Liberty obviously experienced. And now they're watching. You know, the Knicks do it as well. And Sabrina said something. Sabrina Ionescu told us, you know how she has a ton of friends on this team. And again, there was just, like, a deep sense of pride for the city of New York and being able to collectively bring greatness back to the city. And so anyways, going back to John Quell, she walked into the post game press conference, and it was just like, in such a chip. Her mood. And. And after the win and said something along the lines of, like, remember, we did it first.
- [07:34]
Zena Caida
And.
- [07:35]
Annie Constable
And that's. They did. They were the first team to bring a professional basketball championship to New York. And over at that point, it was still. Was it over? Yeah, it was over 50 years. It was two years ago. So I think they. They now the sense is, like, how iconic would it be to win a title the same year as the Knicks and to really be able to stamp New York as, like, the mecca of basketball? And I will say they kind of couched some of those thoughts. You could see them leaning into it. Like, they started to kind of lean into those questions. And then Stewie immediately was like, well, let's talk about that in October. And then, you know, same with Cristimarco. He was like, absolutely, I'm thinking about it, but we have all these other things to do, too. So, Sabrina, the same. Like, they were all thinking about it, but not ready to obviously predict anything yet.
- [08:37]
Zena Caida
Yeah, they're being safe. I respect it. And I also. I do think that's incredibly important. Uh, I believe. I can't believe how, like, how many people I've heard say, you know, the New York Knicks brought a championship to New York, and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. They brought a men's basketball championship. There was a. There was another championship that was brought very recently. And it is important, too. Just thinking about the Commissioner's cup, because the New York Liberty clinched their spot. We know that. We've. We've talked about this. Of just how much the Commissioner's cup has been an indicator of success in the postseason. On the women's side, uh, the only team, though, that has done what the New York Knicks actually ended up doing has been the Las Vegas Aces, where they won a Commissioner's cup in 2022 and won the championship. They're the only ones who have done that now. The New York Knicks have won the NBA cup and also won the full Larry o' Br Bryan Championship Trophy. And so you just wonder, could New York do it? It's interesting to think about. Potentially, you know, they're already in position. The double, double, double, double. It would be. It'd be insane to see these two teams potentially win both or sweep across the cups and the, you know, the championship. So that would be pretty interesting. So, all right, let's get into one
- [09:53]
Sabrina Merchant
thing on the Knicks and the Liberty, though. Like, it's so strange to me, the Liberty, you know, having to walk this, like, tightrope of supporting the Knicks. But also, like, your ownership is not the Knicks ownership. You are aligned with the Brooklyn Nets. Like, the Knicks ownership dumped you on the side of the road 10 years ago.
- [10:10]
Zena Caida
Say that.
- [10:11]
Sabrina Merchant
How do you root for a team that Jim Dolan owns? It's all very. I don't know, there's like, some weird associations there.
- [10:20]
Annie Constable
Brianna Stewart said, we're New York's team. Like, they're. They're not Brooklyn's team. They are the New York Liberty. They are the New York Knicks. So that's how she seemed to kind of associate the two.
- [10:33]
Sabrina Merchant
The size.
- [10:35]
Zena Caida
Right. I was going to say, how did the size feel about that? That's a suspect.
- [10:40]
Sabrina Merchant
Your ownership loves that you're rooting for the team that is their rival.
- [10:44]
Annie Constable
Yeah. I mean, she wasn't outwardly asked, like, hey, how do you associate the relation to the Nets and the Knicks? But she did just say, like, we're both a New York team.
- [10:55]
Zena Caida
I feel like. I mean, I live in the Bay, right? This Is as if like the Lakers went to the championship and the Golden State Valkyries were like, we're California's team because it's Golden State. Like, no, no. Your affiliation is with this particular team.
- [11:11]
Annie Constable
It's absolutely not the same.
- [11:14]
Sabrina Merchant
The way I see it, it would be like, you know, the. The Clippers went to the title and the smarts were like, that's la.
- [11:21]
Zena Caida
I'm saying this from a BAE perspective of like, the expansion and the like, extrap. We're New York's team. Like, it's much better. You're absolutely right. That's a state to state situation. The LA thing is a city to city thing, right?
- [11:34]
Annie Constable
Yeah.
- [11:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, New York, I think she's also saying it as like New York City's team. Right? Like that's also part of it.
- [11:39]
Annie Constable
Yeah.
- [11:39]
Zena Caida
Uh huh. Okay. I think we need to move on. This is interesting though. We do need to move on. But this is, this is fascinating and I'm curious. Hey, Clara, Joe, let us know how
- [11:51]
Sabrina Merchant
y' all feel because this is.
- [11:52]
Zena Caida
This is interesting.
- [11:54]
Annie Constable
Let us know how you're feeling about.
- [11:57]
Zena Caida
Listen, he's always. He's grateful that anybody is cheering his team on right now. Okay? That's all he cares about. Especially after that one game. We're not gonna talk about it. Let's keep it going now. Sabrina scale is back. Guys, I can't even. I gotta get my thoughts together. Sabrina, scale. It's back, y', all, once again. And you move the Liberty from number five to number three. I can only guess why. They've been really.
- [12:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Knicks won the title, that's why.
- [12:25]
Zena Caida
Yeah, right. Obviously New York's team won the tit. No. What's starting to click as you're watching this Liberty. Liberty team on the court.
- [12:34]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I'll let Amy speak to some of this too, but just defensively monstrous, you know? Like, I look at all the types of lineups they can put together with all of that length. You know, you can get Rebecca Gardner, Benijah Lenny Hamilton, Fibich, Stewie Jonquill on the court at the same time. Maybe it's Stewie and Han Shu on the court at the same time. Just like the. The size, like the arm length you mentioned. Brianna Stewart. Denying everyone's existence sets a career high with seven blocks in that game on Sunday against the Mystics. Like, it's just very hard to initiate things in the half court against New York because of all of the lanes that they're blocking and they go to the zone more than any other team in the wnba. And that just makes it even more stifling of, like, where the. Where the openings are, like, where are the lanes to get, you know, the ball to somebody else, the ball into the paint. Yeah, Defensively, like, Stewie's looked as good as she ever has. I think Jonquil has perked up quite a bit since the start of the season on that end of the floor as well. And I've loved just the perimeter options that they have off the bench because, like, you know, Poly Nasty and Ranger Highness, very fun to watch. Very offensively gifted, skilled players. I wouldn't say defense is, like, the main thing they bring to the court, but when you can bring Rebecca Gardner off the bench, when you can bring Lanie Hamilton, when you have Fibich and even Rebecca Allen in certain matchups, like, there is just so much defensive talent on this team, and you're really starting to see that come together with all of the different buttons, like the press we've talked about before. And now sitting back in that zone more like Chris DiMarco's doing a lot of interesting things on that side of the floor.
- [14:01]
Zena Caida
It's a really, really great call out to call out the zone. Cause even I struggle sometimes to identify if they're in zone. And, man, because they're so long, their zone almost looks like a matchup zone. And they can cover so much space, and that's really tough. If you're an opponent trying to figure out what you want to run, you think someone's gonna come up on you and they're like, oh, no. They're just sitting in that zone and they just have all the length in. That's going to be a tool that they can utilize all season long. We know Becky Hammond talked about this years ago, talking about going up against the Liberty in the playoffs. Just like, it's just trees. Like, you can't see beyond the trees. And it's more of that now for. For New York. So thinking about the fact that they're getting to the finals and the finals of the Commissioner's cup, what. What parameters have been met here for them to have made it? Cause I'm thinking about the storyline of New York this year. They lost, like two or three games in a row at the beginning of the season.
- [15:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Three games.
- [15:06]
Zena Caida
Didn't have Sabrina.
- [15:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, eight game home stand.
- [15:08]
Zena Caida
Yeah, yeah, they didn't have Sabrina. But, you know, Pauline Ostieh, you know, stepped up. Great. But Jonquell wasn't as the John Coel. We know she wasn't being utilized as the John Coel. We know they didn't have Leo for a while. They just got Leo Fibich back in the mix a few games. Like, they had to kind of take some steps to get there. What's, what's been met here. When you look at this New York team and how they're gelling, I think
- [15:33]
Annie Constable
it's really a testament to everything they said they were going to do. But what you have to understand, or at least from the outside perspective, is what we're doing. Teams say this all the time of, oh, give us time. Like, this is a new system. We're in this, we're waiting for people to come back. Like, give us time, give us time. And there's a lot of times where those are just excuses and time doesn't matter and it doesn't, it doesn't change anything. You know what I'm saying? In the Liberty's case, all of these steps did have to be taken in terms of them now being at the stage where they're not even playing at their absolute best. Like. Right. They're just slowly day by day again. It's all these cliches of day by day. We're just, we're focusing on improving in this aspect. Like the offense at the beginning of the season was a huge point of emphasis of getting comfortable in Chris DeMarco's systems. Now that they are more comfortable in Chris's system, we're seeing their defense develop and the trust that they have on the defensive end, because that's another thing too. You're talking about all these, you know, zone, man, pressing full court like that requires the trust of the entire team, knowing your counterparts are going to be where they need to be to execute well. And when you don't have all your players, you know, either healthy or in market, you're not able to fully build that out. And so what we're seeing now is I think the result of them actually having time together and this Monstar esque team actually being able to fully tap into their level of excellence. And again, they're just scratching the surface here.
- [17:30]
Zena Caida
Oof, Scary times. And I agree with you went through
- [17:33]
Sabrina Merchant
this whole conversation, we didn't even mention Satsu Sable yet.
- [17:36]
Annie Constable
Right.
- [17:37]
Sabrina Merchant
She's just coming off the bench for now.
- [17:38]
Zena Caida
She's just coming off. Exactly. And she's starting to find her rhythm as well. Absolutely.
- [17:43]
Annie Constable
And that's something I want to emphasize too about this roster. Like this doesn't work if Satu doesn't buy into coming off the bench in certain aspects, like even Beni Jelaney Hamilton. This is a new role for her. And part of Chris's job is going to be to get a team of players that really, in other markets would be starters. I mean, we saw Satu, she was a starter on a finals team last year, and now she's coming off the bench. And of course, part of that is her, you know, injury and getting back up to full health. And we're, I would guess we're going to see in certain instances Satu in a starting role. But again, it's this. It's getting players to buy into what best serves the team. And that's not easy. That's. That's really, really difficult.
- [18:35]
Zena Caida
Yeah, no, that's. It's true. And when you're. When you're thinking about teams that may need a little bit more time, that will. That have. There's two teams in the west right now that one have that trust. They have that continuity. They don't have to worry about that. That's the Aces. And then you think about a team that also needs more time to get things to go together. But they are also rolling right now without having Nafisa Collier and Dorky Juhas. And that's the Minnesota Lynx. And those two teams battled over the weekend.
- [19:04]
Annie Constable
Whoa.
- [19:06]
Zena Caida
That game was insane. Now, mind you, I was late to it. I had to come back and watch more of it, like a recap of the first half. So I watched the second half of it. Whoa. Olivia Miles, I'm Kennedy Carter on the bench. I'm Kennedy Carter. If you guys go back and watch, there's, I think Bleacher Report women's account did a little recap of Kennedy Carter watching Olivia Miles just make stupid move after stupid move after stupid move.
- [19:36]
Sabrina Merchant
To be clear, stupid move after stupid move against Asia Wilson,
- [19:41]
Zena Caida
they went on an 8, 0 run that got the game within like two points. Right, Sabrina? I think it was. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They took the lead eventually. Yes. But like, it was. It was one of those things where I ended up saying, like, this is a statement winning for the Aces. I want to hear your thoughts on this, Sabrina and Annie of like, I think this is a statement win for the Aces because this is a Minnesota team right now that is clicking on all cylinders. They are scary, especially when they're chasing from behind. You, like trying to get a lead and trying to win a game and close things out. They feel like they're on a, what, eight over? They're on an eight game win streak. Like, this was a big win for the Aces to be able to pull out in that way. But I am scared of the Minnesota Lynx. They look scary. So just looking at that, thinking about both of those teams, the Aces right now are just one victory away from getting to the Commissioners Cup Final. But just looking at Minnesota and how they battled against the Aces, what stood out to you about the Aces being able to win that game?
- [20:52]
Sabrina Merchant
I think you mentioned this, like, the continuity and all of that just veteran experience that they have, having been through these battles over and over again. You know, I look at the end of that game when Minnesota's down one and they can't even really get to a shot in their final full 24 second offensive half court set and like, Courtney Williams has the ball for a little bit and, like, doesn't really know where to go, and Olivia Miles gets back and sort of has to take this very deep three. And there just wasn't a lot of flow within that possession. And you contrast that to the very possession right before it when the Aces are down one, literally zero. God, what's the word I'm looking for? Just no panic. They call the reset, timeout. They don't even have to huddle or anything, right? Just like Becky just throws up a hand motion. They know exactly what they're gonna do. They clear out the middle of the floor. They get into Asia, she gets going to her left, she gets the foul call. It's just so automatic, so clinical what they're gonna do in these sets. And yeah, sometimes the shots. Sometimes the shots don't go in, right? That's not the point. The point is that they know what the look is that they want to get to. And Minnesota, for as good of a start to the season as they've had. And they've had some interesting clutch moments, too. They played a game against Dallas earlier in the year that went down to the wire in that fourth quarter, but they don't have the muscle memory that the Aces do, right? Like Olivia Miles, Natasha Howard, Nia Coffey, they are new to this roster. They haven't been through the playoff battles with Courtney Williams and Cale McBride and in coach Charlie Reeves system, right? So it just was so obvious, like, oh, the Aces, like, yeah, maybe we blew a lead. Maybe we made some mistakes, like maybe Olivia Miles had some shots, but we know how to execute when it comes to gut check time. Do you know what you're doing? And Minnesota, like, maybe when feet comes back, they look more like that, but they didn't. And to get to the point where you even have a fourth quarter lead, I think it was in the final minute, maybe it was like, you know, with a minute left to get to that point in Las Vegas is so impressive for where this team is right now. But it just shows that there's like still another step to go to for the Lynx. And that's what's like. Honestly, the most scary thing about all of it is like to be this good so early in the process without Nafisa Collier on the team just gives a lot of hope for what could be. But it also just reminds you of what the standard is in Las Vegas.
- [23:07]
Annie Constable
Oof.
- [23:08]
Zena Caida
Absolutely. I think the fact that the Lynx also won all the hustle points, right, like they won the battle off points, off turnovers. They won the second half, you know, quarter by quarter. Like they, they did everything that they were supposed to do at the end. But you're absolutely right. It was that level of we've been here before that the Aces had over Minnesota that was able to get them that last win. I think Natasha Howard fouling out was huge. A huge, you know, deficit of course for the Links, but very, very. If you're a Links, if you're an Aces fan, I think that was a very reinforcing because you've also seen the Aces in some interesting positions this year where you're like, hmm, you shouldn't be that close to, you know, X, Y and Z team, whatever. It might be like the Valkyries or
- [23:59]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't know, the Valkyries pretty good.
- [24:00]
Zena Caida
I think the Valkyries are very good. But the Aces fans wouldn't say that, right? Like, I think the Aces fans would think that they're still headed above the rest of the league in that way, especially like, you know, any expansion teams. But maybe they don't. Maybe they do have respect for the Valkyries, which I say everyone should have respect for the Valkyries. Anyways. Another thing that, you know, jumped out to me from the Sabrina scale, the Sparks, they are moving up a spot, Just a tiny little spot. So what happened? What happened there?
- [24:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Kelsey Plum happened. Leading scorer in WNBA Kelsey Plum tying to Sparks franchise record with 43 points, setting her own personal career high. Just doing a lot of the herky jerky. Kelsey gets into the paint, you think she's about to travel and then she has her two steps after her gather and everything is very processed and nothing is forced. Yeah. Just looks to be playing the best offensive basketball of her entire career. And in a system like Lynn Roberts that enables her to create so much both of herself and for her teammates, it just leads to some very eye popping stat Lines. Sometimes you see the teams that try to sell out on KP and turn her into passer and like, that's fine. She's starting league and assists, no big deal. She can do that. But the ones that don't have lockdown perimeter defenders and they can throw at her in waves, this is what happens, right? And we've talked about Phoenix, we've talked about their defensive struggles, they have Monika Koa Makani, but like a lot of these possessions, Joanna Nogic get switched on to KP and it's like, all right, well, two points are coming. Let's see how it's going to work.
- [25:23]
Zena Caida
I love that and I'm happy you said eye popping stat lines because I'd be remiss to not mention the fact from our previous conversation. Olivia miles had 29 points, was 11 of 20 from the floor, three of six from the deep against the Aces. Kelsey Plumb against the Aces back in May. She had 38 points, but most recently against Phoenix, 43 points in an overtime win over the Mercury, 43 points, two rebounds, seven assists. Shot 45% from three in that game and 54% from the floor, which she's on average right now, about 50 plus, 50 from the.
- [26:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, she said it was her goal coming into the season to shoot 50, 40, 90, and the 50, 40 is not a problem at all. The 90 is kicking her butt. For some reason. She just cannot get her free throws going.
- [26:13]
Zena Caida
Yeah, she was 83 in this game, 62% like a few games ago or two games ago. Yeah, she's not hitting her free throws as consistently as, you know, she should be. But the Sparks overall, I think the biggest confusion now that they're 7 and 6 on the season at the time that we're recording this, they play the Valkyries tonight. Uh, so we'll see what happens there. But they should be better if it still feels like we haven't gotten the full crux of like, what should be capable of that roster with Neca, Guy McKay and Ray Burrell and Cam Brink and Derick Hamby and all these veteran talent mixed with young, mixed with young, up and coming talent. Just feels like there's more to be had there. We'll see what happens. But Kelsey Plum is just killing squads right now, regardless. All right, y', all, that has been a very long Sabrina scale. It's been a while since I caught up with my girls, so that's what I have to do. Coming up, everything you want to know about developmental players in the W, don't Go anywhere.
- [27:16]
Circa Sports Announcer
The World Soccer Championship takes over the globe, and there's only one place to watch it. Circa Resort and Casino. From June 11 through July 19, experience every game at Las Vegas's premier viewing destination. Catch the action on three levels at Circa Sports or take it in poolside at Stadium Swim, where a massive 143 foot screen and live game sound puts you right inside the action. The World Soccer Championship booked today at circa las vegas.com
- [27:49]
Capital One Bank Guy / Jake Stauch
with no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member FDIC I'm Jake Stauch, co founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Servil. You just tell Servil what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, it becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to serval.com acast that's S E-R-V-A-L.com acast.
- [29:20]
Zena Caida
All righty, y', all, welcome back. Before we jump into our developmental conversation, developmental player convers, uh, let's just plug some things that are going on around the Athletic, because as scattered as that a block was, that's how scattered my brain is when I walk onto right now, the athletic dot com. Like there's so much good stuff. We talked a little bit about the Knicks. There's great coverage of the NBA finals, but also what's about to happen this summer. I don't know if you noticed though, there's like a whole, like a World Cup. Yeah, that's happening as well. Uh, World cup coverage. We've got it on the site. We've got World Cup. We've got a TV show as well on the Amazon Fire. Make sure you check that out. The Daily Cup. There is the Athletic Football podcast, the T Foe podcast, the totally football show. Like, there's so many shows. So if you can find the time within your schedule, please listen to us on 2x and then like, go jump on those because there's so much good content for you guys to go find on the site, on the app, on TV, on YouTube, all the above. And then moving on to our deep dive over here. Of course, over the course of last year, we spent a lot of time talking about the importance of the new cba. Shout out. Annie, you were there in the trenches when it came. Came to be. Listen, were you not. Were you there?
- [30:40]
Annie Constable
I hate to think about it. It's triggering.
- [30:42]
Zena Caida
Okay, okay, we'll move on.
- [30:42]
Podcast Host / Guest
We'll move on.
- [30:43]
Annie Constable
I'm just joking. I'm joking. No, it was a time.
- [30:46]
Zena Caida
It was a time. And we are grateful that you were there and all the work that you and Sabrina. Ben was part of it too, when he was with us. Ben Pickman. Shout out to him. But now there is a. There's a new thing in the CBA this time around, and we want to talk about what these spots are, which are the development players, the developmental players. These players that are essentially supposed to be like the. The second tier of talent when injuries happen and when you need bodies and when you're trying to also develop the future of your franchise. So let's talk a little bit more about what these spots are, why they're important, and the different strategies on how to utilize them. Because we're seeing teams do very different things. So, Sabrina, let's start with the basics. What exactly is a development player? Is it a developmental player? Is it a development player? Break it down.
- [31:40]
Sabrina Merchant
First things first. Developmental players. Yes, you'll hear me. A lot of people call them DPs. Try not to call them that to their face directly, you know, because they're just part of the team. But There is the 12 player roster in the WNBA, and then each team has the option of having another two developmental players who are not guaranteed to be active every day. But they do practice with the team. They do have all of the benefits that come from nutrition and travel. And they function as part of the team in every way other than the specifics of their contract because they're paid on a stipend relative to how many games they actually appear in. So developmental players can Appear in up to 12 games for a WNBA team. But what you're seeing around the league is like a lot of teams just don't activate them for most games. Right. Like they just have them in practice. They show up for game day like in their best fits. I think Maddie Westfeld still wins best fit among the developmental player group. But yeah, they're not necessarily going to be on the game day roster, but they're learning the systems. They're, you know, getting to experience the transition from college or wherever they came from before into WNBA professional life. And they do have the option of playing again up to 12 games for that particular team. That doesn't necessarily mean that if they were to use their 12 games that they can no longer be on the team. It just means that for the rest of the season you are only a practice player, so to speak.
- [33:09]
Zena Caida
Oh, gotcha. Okay, that's good to know. And we're now a quarter of the way through the season. When we first heard about developmental players, it felt like it was just to fill out rosters to start the year. But now there could be movement around, you know, who you add onto your team in the midst of the season. How does the signing of a DP happen when they become available? How quickly can a team sign? There's some teams that have open spots. Like how does the signing essentially break out?
- [33:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. So WNBA teams can sign developmental players literally whenever they want for the first, I think two weeks of their time with the team. Like they are locked into a developmental player contract with that particular team. Afterwards they can be poached by other teams. So like, let's say again, I'm just going to like make up teams here, you know. So Kate Martin is on the Sparks. If another team wants to roster Kate Martin on their 12 player roster, they can offer her a standard contract. And, and the Sparks in this instance would have a first ride refusal. So they could either promote her to their 12th player roster, thus matching the offer she received elsewhere, or else the other team would be able to take her. So that's one way of it happening. Or if a team decides that they are no longer interested in having this particular developmental player around, they can just end their contract. It's not guaranteed over the course of the season and they can either leave that spot open or bring in a different player as a dp.
- [34:42]
Zena Caida
And can a team take a DP to bring it onto their team as a dp?
- [34:47]
Sabrina Merchant
If they are a developmental player like with another team, you can't steal them in a developmental player Role you'd have to upgrade their opportunity with.
- [34:56]
Zena Caida
You got it. That's perfect to know. Okay. And then you said they're paid weekly and that salary is standardized across the league, correct?
- [35:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So essentially like if a developmental player were to appear in their maximum of 12 games and stay the full season, you know, with a team, they would make about 60 plus thousand dollars. So it's like kind of similar to what a minimum contract was on the previous.
- [35:20]
Zena Caida
Yeah, just a year ago, which is absolutely crazy. Okay. So not every team in the league though, as I mentioned, has either a developmental player on the roster or is using both spots. The Aces and the Tempo, for example, have kept their developmental player spots open. Annie, this is probably the biggest question that people have is like, why would you not take advantage of having these extra players that are available for practice, that are available in case someone gets hurt, when we know just how important health is in the wnba? Why would you not take advantage of these. These spots?
- [35:57]
Annie Constable
Yeah, it's honestly a really great question because it seems like a no brainer, but the sense that I've gotten from people around the league and it varies from team to team, but the overall sense is you don't want to bring somebody in just to bring somebody in.
- [36:16]
Sabrina Merchant
You.
- [36:16]
Annie Constable
There's an intention behind it. Is there the time to develop them? One, do you see this player as a potential long term asset to develop? And then three, it's about culture as well. And so I think a lot of teams that don't have. And one team I'll speak to specifically, having just spoken to Sydney Johnson, the Washington Mystics head coach about this, is there's, there is a sense of. Because again, they had two developmental players, they upgraded Alicia Flores to a standard player contract and that's left one developmental position for them to fill. And it's not a matter of them not desiring to fill this, but it is about a strategic pursuit of who can fit within your system, within the culture that you're building long term. Because while this is just a developmental spot, there is a sense from team to team that you're creating or you're building a lane for them to follow that could potentially lead to a standard player contract down the road. And so I think it's again, in the case of the Aces, the Tempo and now the Mystics to use them as an example as well. It's not that they have zero desire to fill these developmental spots, but there's more intention behind finding the correct players that could fit with them potentially even beyond a developmental Player spot, because that's what you're developing. You're. You're bringing them in to have them potentially in the future.
- [38:04]
Zena Caida
It's also, you know, teams have to be so careful about this notion of bringing them in just to have them. If you end up using them for more games than you anticipated, which, you know, some teams are starting to see, you only get 12 per spot, and it's not 12 per player that's in that spot, it's 12 per spot. So you can rotate as many players as you want, but you have a total of 24 games that you're able to get out of those developmental players. So, you know, lo and behold, you bring in someone in that developmental role that actually ends up playing significant minutes for you. That means you're now gonna have to look at your 12 man roster and wonder, should I waive one of you to bring in this dp? That's. I'm curious as to how that's gonna play out for the rest of this year. And it makes me think of a person that, you know, I wanna bring up first, Sabrina, starting with you. Like, who's impressed you the most amongst this group? And it's probably gonna be someone that's gotten several games out of their developmental player role.
- [39:01]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, we just brought up her name, right? Kate Martin. Like, she, I think has the most games played of any of the developmental players. It's a little complicated because, like Haley Van Lith is a developmental player, but she was on a standard contract before being converted into that role. So, like, she has more games total, but not all as a dp. But yeah, within this specific role. Kate Martin has already been activated for eight games for the Sparks. So that's two thirds of her games a month into the season. And, you know, she's been really good for the Sparks. Like, she is one of their better on off point differentials during the course of the regular season. Kelsey Plum, you know, best player on the Sparks. Big Kate Martin fan. Every time her name comes up, she's just like, you know, Kate Martin. Love her. Kate Martin for president. Like, give us Kate Martin on the floor. Like, keep Kate Martin around. And it's great when your team's best player is such a vocal advocate for you, right? Like, KP and Kate Martin go way back. They were on the aces together in 2024 during Kate Martin's rookie season. Like, Kate Martin was part of Kelsey's dog class prior to that WNBA season. So yeah, she's been really helpful for the Sparks, playing more minutes than three of their rostered players in Tenaya Latson, Emma Cannon, and Saniyah Fagan. Although Sinai Fagan has had some injuries that have, you know, kept her out of the lineup at times. But, yeah, like, we've watched her on the Aces, we've watched her on the Valkyries, we know what Kate Martin does, right? She plays at high energy, she fits into a defensive scheme. She can make some threes. Uh, she just is active, moving all the time. Right? Like, she's the kind of player who coaches love, and that's why everyone says that she's like, could be a coach someday, because she just knows what she's doing on a basketball court. Uh, and nothing has been all that different with the Los Angeles Sparks.
- [40:45]
Zena Caida
Yeah, it's. It's tough. I. She's probably the number one person that I'm like, you're going to have to start looking at your roster, uh, because as you mentioned, only eight. She's already eight games in. Uh, meaning that you're either, if you're the LA Sparks, you're either developing her for someone else to take, or you're developing her for your own roster. And that, you know, requires you to make some tough decisions. Annie, as you're looking at some of these developmental players that, you know, have made their mark already, I think Kate Martin makes a lot of sense, especially someone that got significant minutes with the Valkyries just a year ago. But remember, these developmental roles are supposed to be mostly for folks that. That are three years of service or less within the wnba. So, you know, Kate Martin's still in that realm, in that window of that developmental age. Anyone else standing out to you in these roles?
- [41:42]
Annie Constable
Yeah, I think it's an interesting tool when applied to international talent. And one player that specifically comes to my mind is Annalee Mailey here in New York. She's been on training camp rosters in the past. She was in Chicago in, I believe it was 2022. And what stands out to me about an opportunity like this and New York, The New York Liberty's general manager, Jonathan Kolb, spoke about this at the beginning of the year. But there's a strong intention behind the way they're applying this or utilizing this developmental position as more of a pipeline to develop international talent or talent overall that could again, make a future roster for the Liberty. So when you apply that to Annalee Mailey and even Marine Fatu, like, it makes sense that these are players that aren't, you know, homegrown because of the liberties focus on international talent, like, they're one of the franchises that is really similar to the Mercury, like, locked in on. On developing international talent. And so something that stands out to me about Annalee Mailey is, like, she might not get the reps that a player like Kate Martin is getting, but the value of being around a team like this, what is this going to do for her future in the wnba, Whether it's with the New York Liberty or with one of these expansion teams that are coming up. Because what we've seen happen, obviously, with the Tempo, with the Fire, with the Valkyries before them, is the question of whether the WNBA is deep enough or there's enough talent around the world to fill these rosters. That has been answered. There is. It's just a matter of opportunity. And so a player like Annalee Maley, I could see being one of these players who is one day drafted by a expansion team and is, like, given that opportunity that we're seeing some of these players on again, like the Valkyries, the Fire, the tempo take advantage of, and people are kind of shocked of, like, where did this person come from? Well, we've all been watching them. It's just a matter of. Of an actual opportunity.
- [44:17]
Zena Caida
It's such a good point. Like, it's not just the basketball, too. It's the mentality of being on a team like that, being around folks that prepare, how they eat, how they, you know, work on their body, their habits. Right? You pick up those type of championship habits from a team like that. Maybe you weren't the one that was on the floor, but you bring those type of habits to another organization that may not have those established now, you get an opportunity to pop because of that.
- [44:44]
Sabrina Merchant
And you think about what Annie was saying about just, like, filling the rosters for Cleveland and Detroit and Philadelphia down the line. Yeah, there's talent all around the world, but there is a different experience to playing in the wnba. I'm not saying that just because technically this is the best league in the world, right? And the talent level is just a little bit higher, the competition level's a little bit higher. And also just the cadence is different. Right. Like, you look at these overseas leagues where they play one or two times a week, and you have so long to go through practices and go through scouts and, like, really hone in on what you're doing in those one or two games. W's aren't like that. You play three, four times a week, and you're going from one city to the next, and just getting into that flow, I think, is very different. For players who have not been part of the W before. Right. So being a part of that I think is really important for these developmental players and it's going to help so much when we think about expansion further of like stocking these teams of players who aren't necessarily WNBA rookies because even if they are professionals and have been in professional leagues for a long time, like this league is just different and we don't always see people immediately acclimate themselves right away to how it is so like to have that opportunity, even if you're not being activated for every game, I think is really important to the continued success of the league, if not these teams in the immediate.
- [45:58]
Annie Constable
I was just going to say that brings up another interesting point about like the concept of load management and how the developmental players, the strategy behind utilizing them and when to utilize them. I had a couple interesting conversations about to your point. The cadence of the WNBA schedule is really unique. And one thing that really hasn't been afforded to teams in the past is extra bodies in this way. And so whether it's something we immediately noticed or something that we watch develop, no pun intended, is how these positions get utilized or these players get utilized during a really like thick scheduling week. Right. And whether or not we see players. Yeah. Take night nights off because now you have your. You have the availability of a developmental player who can come in and play meaningful minutes for you.
- [47:00]
Zena Caida
Now if you're listening to this and you've never watched an NBA game in your life, what Annie's describing is very. Is very common in the NBA in which, you know, teams on maybe the second night of a back to back or they've just been on a crazy road stretch or something like that, or they're dealing with a lot of injuries, they'll activate their two way players to be able to take some minutes away from folks that are in their regular rotation just to help manage the load of the season and the ups and downs and that flow that Sabrina's referencing. So this is. But this is a new feeling, a new pattern that the WNBA is now seeing and implementing and having the privilege, I would say maybe the resource to have to be able to utilize. I don't know if it's privilege is what I want to say, but they have the benefit.
- [47:52]
Sabrina Merchant
The option.
- [47:53]
Zena Caida
The option. The luxury. Thank you. The luxury is what I'm looking for. The luxury to be able to have that option. So that is a, that's a new, a new way to look at it from a coaching perspective and a new element of Being a good coach is how to properly manage these minutes and these opportunities. Before I jump into my choice of like a developmental player that's kind of sticking out, I wanted to ask you guys. Sabrina, I'll start with you with like with Kate Martin. This is someone that was in the WNBA and getting minutes. And even in her year with the Aces, she got minutes. Being able to just come in, maybe pop off for a quick three, being able to just keep things steady for a little bit wasn't significant, but it was minutes in the W. What does she need to do to get back to a standard 12, a standardized roster spot?
- [48:40]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, if you watch Kate Martin play, like, it seems pretty clear that she's capable of being on a 12 player roster. It's just a matter of like, where are the spots? Right. And it's harder to bring people in mid season when they haven't been in your camp, when they don't know your system as well and you're integrating them with all of the other rotation players that you have. I would be pretty stunned if she ended the season still on a developmental player contract. Like I'm, I would be too. I would expect the Sparks to cut one of their players and bring her in. And like, that's tricky because you obviously went through camp. These players all earned their spots. Just FYI, like the league wide cut down date is close to the midpoint of the season, after which point every contract becomes guaranteed. So it probably happened before that to save the Sparks some money in that case. But yeah, like she's already. I mentioned she's playing more minutes than three of the players. I actually got that wrong. It's more than four of their players. So like she is number nine or number eight on their roster in terms of minutes and. No, number nine. Sorry, I can't do math. Number nine on the roster in terms of minutes and like that's, that's a rotation player, right? Like she's already shown that she understands the system and she's capable of producing like at a rotation level in this system. Like the way Lynn Roberts runs an offense is not all too dissimilar to like the way Iowa ran its offense, frankly. And that's something that Kate Martin was in for six years. So like, I think she's proven enough to be WM player. It's just a matter of like, you get cut at the end of training camp and you just have to. And she found a place where they were going to put her on a developmental player spot and she saw an opportunity to be like, hey, I know I can get onto this roster by the end of the year, and I can outplay at least one or two of these players. And I think she's proven that so far. It's just a matter of, like, how the general managers in the front office figure, like, do we want to keep these younger players around? Do we want to promote and, like, give us a better opportunity in the 2026 season, you know, to perform? But, yeah, I think she's proven enough already. It was just like, the Valkyries had an overload of wings. They couldn't keep her around, and the timing just didn't really work for her to get on a standard player contract at that particular point.
- [50:43]
Zena Caida
Makes sense. Annie, what about Annalee? Like, what does Annalie need to do to be able to kind of get over that hump of being in training camps and being in this DP role and being able to be someone that gets a full roster spot?
- [50:57]
Annie Constable
I think she has to develop more consistency on the offensive end. But beyond that, to go back to the point Sabrina just made, it is about opportunity and where there's actually a spot for you. And so much of the success in the WNBA is about hanging around, quite frankly, like, staying in this league, being at these training camps. Like, there's so many players who come back year after year just for training camp contracts and are cut year after year before the season starts. But the reason they do that, that is again, to remain, keep proximity to the league, to the general managers, to the decision makers, so that when an opportunity does open up, you're someone that is a known commodity. And so I think for Annalee, that's the biggest hurdle is. Is remaining within proximity or keeping proximity to the league enough that that when an opportunity does open up, you're available. And the thing that's hard about New York is this roster is so deep, and it's. It's like. I don't know, like, in Kate's situation, there's a legitimate opportunity for her to be upgraded to a standard player contract. That's not the case for Annalee in New York. Something really abnormal would have to happen in New York for Annalee Maley to get a standard player contract in New York just because, again, the depth of this roster, it's built to a T to contend for a title. But with a player like Annalee, it's more about, again, remaining in proximity to the wnba. When you consider where the league's headed and expansion and the opportunities that are going to present themselves down the road.
- [53:05]
Zena Caida
No, it makes sense. Something spectacular, something out of the norm, Something like, I don't know, Rekia Jackson getting injured, Dijonay Carrington not being available. Like, these are the things that make me think for my developmental player choice, Ayesha Koulibaly. But before we get into that really quickly, Sabrina actually had to run. In case you're wondering what happened to our third space, she had to run really quickly to keep getting the coverage that you guys want. But let's continue this really quickly. I'll touch on. Ayesha, for me, has been. She's played in, you know, we talked about. Kate Martin had eight, seven games. Aisha's played in seven for the Chicago Sky. And she's basically just had to step up in the midst of these absences or absences. There's just not enough wings out in Chicago. And her most recent game, she played against Indiana. And as I was watching that game, Sidney Taylor's going off, and I'm also watching Aisha Koulibaly being relentless on the boards. She gets six rebounds in that game, and she's putting pressure on, you know, Lexi Hull and the team to have to pay attention to where she is trying to get on the boards and trying to get to the basket. She did not have a field goal in that game, but gets to the free throw line eight times, makes six. Um, when you look at her numbers, like, her advanced numbers, the team is, interestingly enough, like plus 22 when she's on the floor. Now, do I think that her field goal percentage and her offensive production is, you know, part of the reason why? Not necessarily, but I think her activity is. Does garner attention in a way that it opens things up for, you know, the guards around her and even the bigs around her. Just the fact that they've got someone there that can simulate a version of the activity that Dijonay Carrington could provide when she returns is good for Aisha to be able to showcase that. But she's getting opportunity right now because of the absences that Annalee Maley is not seeing in New York. And Kate Martin's getting opportunity because, in my opinion, she's a WNBA player. That's just straight up. But Aisha, I think, is, to me, the quintessential kind of mix of the two. Of, like, yes, you're. You're drafted. I believe she was drafted in the first round. Um, but you're drafted in the first round or so. Excuse me. She was drafted in the second round to Chicago last year, and she's getting an opportunity to Play now because of these injuries, and she's showcasing that she can just. She can fill time in a positive way. Uh, and that's. That's huge for a development department player.
- [55:50]
Annie Constable
Yeah, I think that's a perfect pick, especially because of the challenges that Jeff Pagliaka had finalized. Excuse me, Finalizing that roster, like, when it came down to that final position, Sidney Taylor and Aisha were two players that there was contemplation about, like, who's going to get this final roster spot. Aisha, I should say, was amongst, you know, players getting heavy consideration when it came down to that final roster spot. And obviously Sidney Taylor, what she's done is a testament to not only her place in the wnba, but the fact that Pagliaka made the right decision in, you know, who that 12th roster spot went to. But Aisha, I think, could be elevated to a standard player contract under the right circumstances. And the thing with the Chicago sky is they are dealing with a ton of injuries right now, but all of these players are expected to come back, aside from Rekia, obviously. And so she's kind of in this limbo stage of again, being utilized because of absences. But to your point, not in the same situation as Kate, where there's a clear cut path for her to be elevated to a standard player contract.
- [57:21]
Zena Caida
Yeah, yeah, we'll see what happens there. The last person I want to bring up is someone that's kind of been a. A little bit of all three of the people that we've talked about, Haley Van L, who was a person that was, you know, on a contract. We know that she was on a team last year with the Chicago Sky. She goes to Connecticut. She signed to Connecticut, then waived, then brought back on a developmental contract. And when they. Connecticut sun activated Layla Lacan on May 28, they waived Haley Van Lith before then signing her to a developmental contract. So that's basically how it played out. When you think about the fact that, you know, she gets signed to Connecticut, then she's waived, then she's brought back. To me, that is the point of a developmental contract. It's like you're not quite good enough to be on our standard roster, but we see you fitting into our system, so we want to keep you around. And you talked about it, like, how important it is to just stick around the W and just to find a way to still be relevant. To me, this is belief in. In, you know, Rashid Mehzian having belief in, you know, her and her in that system. Morgan Tuck believing in Hayley Van Lith in the Connecticut sun system. The GM of the Connecticut Sun. What are your thoughts on this?
- [58:44]
Annie Constable
Yeah, I mean, when they brought Hailey in, it was always the understanding that it was in the absence of Laila Lacan. Like, when Layla came back, there was always. This move was always going to happen. But I think. Think Haley's experience with, you know, as a player who. Who similar to Kate, but not quite at Kate's caliber, has that actual WNBA experience, was on a roster getting actual minutes in the league. Like that is a serious value to a franchise like the Connecticut sun that are young and are building. And so for Haley, I think the biggest challenge and even others. Right. Like, the biggest challenge is ego. She. And I'm not saying Haley's struggling with the ego, but that's a challenge that presents itself in this scenario of you were a WNBA player on a standard contract and now you've taken the step into a new role. How do you approach that? Like, are you going to be bigger than the moment or are you going to let yourself learn from them? And I think Haley's a really good example of a player who is taking the opportunity presented to her and attempting to maximize it.
- [60:10]
Zena Caida
Agreed. Agreed. And I'm happy that Haley Van Lith is now in a position where there's not this pressure to immediately perform, because I think there was that last year, right. It was this concept of, oh, Haley Van Lith and Angel Reese, they played at LSU together. They should have this chemistry, the synergy. It should already click, et cetera. And there was a of. Lot, lot of pressure on us in a system that already had a lot of cracks in the fault lines in, you know, in its foundation. And Haley also was kind of in and out last year. She played a total of 29 games out of 44. So she didn't have the same level of consistency in terms of, like, her health as well. So there was just a lot going on in Chicago. Now it feels like Connecticut as a whole is accepting the fact and they're, I think, knowledgeable of the fact that they're rebuilding in a way that I don't think Chicago was. And so I just feel like this is an opportunity for Haley to stand on the sand and watch the waves and learn before she jumps right in. And, yeah, we'll see how her. How she responds to that opportunity and that chance. That's a good call out.
- [61:20]
Annie Constable
Yeah. The last thing I'll say really quickly to that, too, is I think Haley's a really good example of. Of development at the collegiate level, needing to improve right this. Haley was a star at the collegiate level, but there was a big jump she had to make from college to the pros. And because Courtney Vandersloot went down last year with that injury, she was thrust into a different type of role or, or the timeline for her to be a contributing player got sped up rapidly and it was clear that she was not, not. She was not ready for that. And so to your point, like now with the Connecticut sun, she can take a step back and focus on the development and getting ready to be a considerable contributor on a WNBA roster versus having that timeline sped up like it was in Chicago.
- [62:15]
Zena Caida
It's so interesting because, you know, for those that don't know, Haley Van List was at Louisville before she went to tcu. And the whole notion though is like playing under Mark Campbell at TCU is you get to play in this kind of pro like system of one players that are coming together, that haven't played together for a long time. There's not the same level of continuity at tcu, especially the, you know, the time that she was there. But there, you know, she was playing with Sedona Prince. There was that pick and roll action. Like it did feel very league ready type of offense. And then you see Olivia Miles also have that same sort of experience and it is translating for her. And so it's interesting how it all plays out. I do think the environment that she got thrust into, as you mentioned, how it wasn't like the keys were given to her as soon as she came, it was. The keys were given to her because there was no other option. Like we need. You gotta step up. And there's a mental thing too with that of the way in which you come into a situation. Whereas like it was very clear, Olivia Miles, that the Minnesota Links need a point guard and you're going to be it. Like the people coming back aren't coming back to take your point guard position. They're. They're coming back to help you, you know, be in, help give you more options as a point guard. So it's, it's a good comparison. Like just the collegiate experience for the two of them having both gone out of or come out of TCU in their senior year.
- [63:45]
Babbel Advertiser
We'll see.
- [63:46]
Zena Caida
Like with these developmental rules, I'm just more so curious that what is going to happen with, especially at the deadline as these contracts get guaranteed, as Sabrina mentioned earlier, how are GMs going to look at the value? Right, because right now it's cool. They're not guaranteed. But what's going to happen when they're on the their their budget's gonna have to answer to whether they want these DPs around or not. All right, y' all stay with us on the other side. We're gonna dive into a listener question.
- [64:18]
Podcast Host / Guest
Foreign.
- [64:23]
Circa Sports Announcer
The World Soccer Championship takes over the globe and there's only one place to watch it. Circa Resort and Casino from June 11 through July 19, experience every game at Las Vegas's premier viewing destination. Catch the action on three levels at Circa Sports or take it in poolside at Stadium Swim, where a massive 104-43-foot screen and live game sound puts you right inside the action. The World Soccer Championship booked today at circa los vegas.com
- [64:55]
Annie Constable
Ever been at the
- [64:56]
Sabrina Merchant
checkout wishing you had more cash to spend?
- [64:58]
Monday.com / Stamps.com Advertiser
You're watching the total Climb, doing mental
- [65:00]
Sabrina Merchant
math, getting ready to put your favorite yogurt back.
- [65:02]
Annie Constable
It's the worst.
- [65:04]
Monday.com / Stamps.com Advertiser
Clio lets you access an up to $250 cash advance fast so you can
- [65:09]
Sabrina Merchant
cover your groceries without the pan panic.
- [65:11]
Annie Constable
No interest, no credit checks, just simple flexible repayment.
- [65:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Get up to $250 with Clio and keep grocery shopping stress free.
- [65:21]
Capital One Bank Guy / Jake Stauch
Depending on eligibility, you can get up to a $250 cash advance. Terms and conditions apply.
- [65:27]
Podcast Host / Guest
The longer you stay alive, the longer you can enjoy Boost Mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. So here are some tips. Do not parallel park on a cliff if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up up. Do not microwave a hard boiled egg if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with the price that never goes up. Stay alive and enjoy Unlimited Wireless for $25 a month forever. With Boost Mobile, after 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.
- [66:02]
Zena Caida
As we mentioned before, we get a lot of questions from our listeners, including questions that we've had around developmental players and we hope that we were able to answer some of those as well as give you guys some good examples of how developmental and are, you know, being seen around the league, but we've got another one and we want to dive into it. Kasey or Kesey? I'm not sure, but hopefully I'm saying that right. K E C I emailed us to ask with fiba, this season is going to run deep into October, which feels like it might impact players focus and Fatigue. How have international tournaments affected postseason's past? How do teams who have more national team players tend to do better? Because those players are players, you know, they're the best of the best. Or do they do worse because those players are taking on a lot more load and everyone else is getting more rest? Very good question. Um, so, Annie, where do you want to start with this one? Because I think there's. We've seen examples of both ways.
- [67:03]
Annie Constable
Yeah, right. I actually, my favorite example to use for this question is 2016. Candace Parker was one of the biggest snubs on the U.S. women's National Team roster in history.
- [67:19]
Zena Caida
Yeah.
- [67:19]
Annie Constable
Like, still to this day. And that Sparks team went on to win the WNBA title later that season. Now, we've seen, obviously, every year that there's international tournaments of that caliber, fiba, the Olympics, like, obviously, players. Players who are competing in these tournaments come back and then contribute, can contribute to title runs. But there is a factor at play in terms of fatigue and the toll it takes because while certain players are competing, there are others who are getting rest. And I don't say rest in terms of. They're just chilling, taking breaks. But you get to develop, you know, individually and again, focus on. On getting your body right in a way that during a normal season, you don't just get some random break to do. So. So I think the 2016 Sparks are a good example of how that could maybe be a benefit. But again, I mean, we see this happen every year, or, excuse me, every time there's an international competition like FIBA coming up, the players on this roster, like there are. That make that roster. They're going to be ones that are going after a title as soon as they get back. And, you know, so it's. It's a tricky. It's a tricky dynamic.
- [69:01]
Zena Caida
Agreed, agreed. And it's.
- [69:02]
Annie Constable
And it's.
- [69:03]
Zena Caida
That Sparks example is a really interesting one, especially because there's a difference between how being on those teams or not on those teams can impact you mentally. Right. Could it be the chip on your shoulder you need to go prove something to the world? And then there's also what Kecy's also referencing, the impact physically that you may have on the team. And the easiest example I would say that you could look to is what happened in 2024. The USA women's team goes and wins gold in France at the Olympics. And on that team from the New York Liberty are Sabrina Unescu and Brianna Stewart. And, you know, it didn't seem to impact them, having made it all the way to the end of the Olympics, but they were able to go out and win a game. I think also about the fact that you. I think it was 2022 or 2023 Asia Wilson and the run she went on, right? Going, winning a championship and then going and winning the World cup and feeble World cup as well, like right after. And being the MVP of that is just like some players are not impacted by this at all.
- [70:23]
Annie Constable
Another example of someone who was left off an Olympic roster, but it maybe had a positive impact on the. Her WNBA performance was Caitlin Clark when she was left off that 2024 roster. Obviously that's not something as a player or even same with Candace. You're like, yay, I got left off. So now I get to focus on my, you know, on the WNBA and, and what to get what can improve over in this corner of the. Of. Of my career. But that had a considerable impact on not. But the Indiana Fever as a whole. They came out of that break and went on a tear because they had the time to practice, to establish themselves, to develop continuity in a way that they wouldn't have had she immediately gone to compete for the Olympics. Because again, that year was also, you know, there were no breaks in terms of going straight from college to the WNBA to the Olympics. So I think what fans also have to understand about this is like, these are the proiest of pros. I know that's not a word, but they're prepared for this. Like the things sometimes we think about, as in, oh, how does this impact them? Are they, you know, is this going to have a negative. Negative effect? Like they're, they're equipped to handle that level of competition. And in a lot of ways it doesn't, I think, have a negative effect maybe the way you would outwardly think it would.
- [72:09]
Zena Caida
I'm trying to look at the numbers and I can't tell this for exact fact between the two years, but I do see that in August of 2024 and September in 2024, the New York Liberty and the Las Vegas Aces did slow down in terms of their pace. So there might be something to be said about how these international tournaments do impact in terms of just like fatigue and being able to run up the floor. But again, it could just be the second half of the season. So I have to look at the numbers a little bit more deeply on that. But I do think, as Annie, you're mentioning, these are pros and they're not as impacted by these things in the same way. So ultimately we will see what happens this year with the FIBA World cup and Kasey. We're going to have to come back to your question, but it's a really, really good with the starters, not so much. Maybe some bench players that are international tournaments. They might have a new rhythm that they have to find. All right, y', all, that's all we got for today. Laysha and I will be back with more on Thursday. Do not forget to sign up for the newsletter. There's going to be lots of great content every single week on Tuesday. And follow our show. That's where you know you're going to get great women's hoops content. You won't miss out on all the cool stories around the league. All right, y'. All, on behalf of the athletic Annie Constable and the Serena Merchant, I'm Zena Kada thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to no off season. To hear more, be sure to like and subscribe. We drop new episodes every Tuesday and Friday.
- [73:38]
Babbel Advertiser
If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about out in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B-A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may
- [74:12]
Capital One Bank Guy / Jake Stauch
apply with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com Capital One NA Member FDIC,
- [74:44]
Monday.com / Stamps.com Advertiser
shipping, billing, admin, Payroll, Marketing. You're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com print postage on demand 247 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk free for 60 days.