← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
How to Own Your 2025 Women's NCAA Bracket Pool
00:54:30
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- [00:00]
Zena Keda
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- [00:22]
Ben Pickman
There to watch them.
- [00:23]
Zena Keda
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- [01:31]
Mark Schindler
Today's.
- [01:31]
Chantelle Jennings
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- [02:50]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [05:07]
Ben Pickman
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by MassMutual. I'm Zena Keda.
- [05:11]
Tara Vandeveer
And I'm Ben Kickman.
- [05:13]
Ben Pickman
Today on the show, we're looking ahead. Yes, already to the final Four. We got to get this right early guys. What are the potential paths for this year's top contending teams? Who's got the easiest rope? Who's got the hardest? And we're going to get into some of our personal favorites, the teams that may not get to the title, but they might go further than we think. If you're new here, hit that follow button wherever you're listening so you can stay up to date with us. It's March Madness and we got a lot of good stuff coming up. Also, check out our brand new YouTube channel where we'll be sharing all sorts of videos including full episodes. So subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Okay, first things first, all March Madness. We here at the Athletic are trying to help you own your bracket pool. We're trying to get you those bragging rights friends. So we're going to start off the show today with some of our top tips for filling out your bracket. But before we get there, we've got a special no off season bracket challenge in the works. If you want to play along and compete against our no off season crew, you can. We're working with our partner Yahoo. Sports, using the bracket on our fantasy hub. And if you head over there, you can find our group and join our community. It is public. It is easy. All you have to know is that the ID number is 2519. This is important. 2519. No off season bracket challenge. And don't worry, we'll put this info in the show notes and shout it out at the end of the show again. But please join us. Compete for all the glory. Tell your friends that you're smarter than Ben Pickman, Sabrina Merchant and Chantelle Jennings. I'm not throwing my name in there. It's a no brainer, y'all, because basically we're telling you everything you need to know right here on this show every episode. And back to that. Joining me and Ben today to talk about bracket tips and all the rest is basketball writer and our resident bracketologist Mark Schindler. Mark, you are automatically at work. Of course, it's just a few hours, not even a full day since we've announced the brackets. And you've got a tip tip sheet out for us right now in the Athletic. You've got top 10 tips for filling out your bracket. As you made this list, what were the first three that came to mind for you?
- [07:29]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I mean, the first three. I thought back immediately to when I was a kid and I got really excited the first time where I like fully understood what March Madness was. I like watched everything the entire season. I, I did my spreadsheets, I knew all the numbers and then I did a bracket challenge with my family. My mom, who is not a Sports person didn't watch any games. She did everything based off of the logos and she won a bracket pool. So make multiple. I'll, I'll, I'll tie into with that. Make multiple and be unorthodox, because if you just go chalk with everything you expect to happen, that's not what March is about. That's not what college basketball is about. If you are entering March Madness in college basketball, one of the smallest, craziest sample sizes with some of the most volatile teams, levels of play you can get to, you're setting yourself up for failure and a lot of not fun headed into this. So those would be my first two. Does that ring true for you at all?
- [08:22]
Ben Pickman
Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, you could choose your bracket based off of, like, the school you went to, based off of liking the, the logos and also the mascots. Like, even that can be a great way to choose your bracket. And I've seen people win in that way. I want to ask Ben, though, did you also have this, like, multiple bracket growing up? Are you still doing multiple brackets, like, right now?
- [08:43]
Tara Vandeveer
Oh, I'm out on this tip, Xena. I think this is a bad tip. Oh, I'm all for, I'm all for doing multiple drafts of the same bracket. And I am definitely a tinkerer in the bracketing process. You know, I think I do the Sunday night bracket like a lot of other people, and I will play with the 8, 9 games and 512 all the way up to the bracket actually beginning. But in terms of submitting a bracket into a pool, sharing it with friends, I am a one bracket. Again, if you're a multiple bracket person, there's no judgments here. Mark is a great basketball mind. I trust your judgment generally, Mark, but like, if you have multiple brackets in the same pool, then you're just rooting for multiple things. Like, you're just rooting for, you know, sometimes you're checking for the five, sometimes you're like, did this nine seed win? Did this 11 seed advance? What about this three seed? You're just, you're rooting for everybody. It's like people who are in like 20 fantasy football leagues, you know, and so you, like, you check your lineup and you know you're inevitably going to make the championship. And if that makes you feel good, then I'm happy you're feeling good. But like, for me, for me, it's like one bracket on the men's side, one on the women's side. Make as many drafts as you want, but then press submit and set it and forget.
- [09:58]
Ben Pickman
All right. Sorry, Mark. I didn't know we were doing a podcast.
- [10:01]
Mark Schindler
I mean, if you're trying to make.
- [10:02]
Ben Pickman
Money, the party pooper over here and Ben, one bracket, boring. I'm with you, Mark. I like the multiple. I like one having one bracket, that's, like, really serious, and it's based on evaluation. And then I like having one that's, like, crazy. That's just, like, all the upsets in the world. Who knows? Let's just have some fun with it. We'll see.
- [10:20]
Tara Vandeveer
I'm okay with the fun.
- [10:21]
Ben Pickman
Bracket.
- [10:21]
Tara Vandeveer
If you're picking mascots, if you're picking, like, the best lefties, you know, whoever's got the best lefties or players with glasses to make it to the final four. Like, I'm all good for the, like, miscellaneous category, theme, bracket, and a real one. But if you're doing, like, two semi reels, it's not. It's not for me.
- [10:39]
Ben Pickman
You know what? I can respect that. I can respect that. I think that then you're right. It's like, if one bracket, you've got a 14 seat upsetting in the first round, and then the next bracket, you've got them losing. It's like, now you're just playing both sides of the corn. Like, I completely get that. Okay, that's fair. We're meeting here in the middle. We're meeting here in the middle. What I will say is that I ain't gonna lie, y'all. I know I said on yesterday's show I was gonna get off the show and I was gonna fill out my bracket. I was set. Okay. And then I had to go do the NBA daily podcast, and even on that podcast, I said what team I thought was gonna win it all. And I closed out that podcast, and I went to go do my bracket, and I started looking at some stuff, and I was like, I don't even know if I believe what I chose. And I was happy to see, mark, your top 10 tips, because there are some aspects of it that actually helped me kind of change my mind on who I chose, particularly who you set to trust. Trust and backcourts. Evaluating how certain teams performed. Talk to me a little bit about the tips you had when it comes to actually evaluating teams and who's on the team and also how some of these teams performed to close out the year.
- [11:47]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I think one of the most important parts with any bracket is picking the right team to get an upset. So for me, I think one of the most important things, kind of like mixing that with Another is like recognizing that pretty much every upset is going to happen on the first weekend. Like, we just typically do not see most of those upsets happen past the first weekend of play. So just like pulling some numbers from, from last year, 13 of the 16 host teams advanced this week. 16. And of the three teams that were not host teams, two of them were five seeds. The other was number seven seed Duke, who you could argue was was underseated. They'd played really well the entire year. Just some inconsistent play. And then even you go to the year prior, the lowest seed to advance this week, 16 was Ole Miss. Twelve of those 16 teams that advanced were host teams. Like, for the most part, if you're going to pick an upset of a double digit number, it's going to happen in the first round. They're probably out in the second round. And even if they make to the second round, the likelihood of them making the Sweet 16 just typically does not happen. So I think that's really important to note. Like, it shouldn't always just be based off historical stuff. You want to take it just on the year that it is, of course. But, um, I think one of the biggest mistakes you see from people is like, oh, let me pick this trendy team out of Missouri to go win, you know, four games and get to the elite Eight. Like, that just doesn't happen very often, really, if ever. So that's one that I would look at right away in terms of being careful with that as far as like evaluating actual talent. I mean, I fell into the trap last year and like, I should have known better because especially as soon as the game happened, I was like, you know, why did I think that when Virginia Tech played Marshall, I think there was an idea of like, Marshall forces a lot of turnovers. Virginia Tech doesn't have Liz Kitley. Marshall is going to win this game. And I think you could argue like Marshall had a really bad shooting game. Like they did not shoot well from three in that game. But also they weren't able to force turnovers. Why Georgia Amore is a lead at handling ball pressure. Like, she's improved at like traps and stuff like that. But like in terms of full court pressing, which Marshall does now Tennessee, because I was Caldwell's team. Like, I think that's one where like, okay, if you go through and you, you can look back at games and say, this player slash, this team really struggles against full court pressure. Cool. That's a sensible upset. When you have an elite guard who is, who has seen that kind of, you know, Coverage since, you know, she was 10, 11 years old and has been great at it. It's just not going to happen. That's a really tough one to go up against. Even then, like, you look to. Virginia Tech was awesome on the offensive glass last year. They played really big. That was tough for Marshall. But, like, take a team, like, not saying they'll win this year, but like Harvard, I think you take a player like Harmony Turner, who's a really good decision maker with the ball in her hand, she's steady, she can create a lot. It's just a hard player to contain. And they play really smart and safe basketball around her. They play slower pace. Like, that's a team that I would be more willing to bet on or, like, be open to the forcing an upset because it's not just about having guards. It's about having guards who are going to be good in pressure situations and can kind of muck things up a little bit with what your game plan is.
- [14:44]
Ben Pickman
Harvard was one of the teams that I was choosing to upset, so I just love when you guys validate things.
- [14:48]
Mark Schindler
I actually personally wouldn't pick Harvard. I think Harvard's really good. But Michigan State is a very difficult matchup, so we'll see.
- [14:55]
Ben Pickman
Rude.
- [14:56]
Mark Schindler
I know you're an Ivy kid, so, like, what can I say? But.
- [14:58]
Ben Pickman
And you got me. I'm, like, actually going against my foe. Okay. My arch nemesis in Harvard. But I do love Harmony Turner so much for all the reasons you just mentioned.
- [15:06]
Mark Schindler
I mean, you gotta get some wins for it to be a nemesis. But that's.
- [15:09]
Ben Pickman
Y'all the strays. I'm catching all the strays right now. Okay, let's move the conversation over to Ben here, because I think, Ben, we've had some similar conversations in the past, particularly in our last March Madness tips and things to look out for. I remember Chantelle Jennings saying something similar that Mark has said in his top 10 tips of trusting guard play, particularly guards that can handle elite pressure. I'm curious if there are any tips that you picked up on either within Mark's list or within your own list of how you like to fill out your brackets and what you would advise maybe your mom or your. Your friend to be able to do with their bracket.
- [15:47]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah. Along those lines of elite guard play. And this one is maybe slightly more in the weeds than just looking at guard play, is looking at free throw shooting and how teams convert at the free throw line. And it's for a lot of the same reasons that Mark laid out. But we so often see the madness of March wreaks havoc when, you know, late in games, 2 minutes left, 1 minute left, players go to the line and they split a pair, they miss both free throws, and suddenly like the craziness ensues. And do you know what happens if teams make free throws? It seems like the craziness doesn't seem to ensue as much. So if I'm looking at like little small margins, very kind of simple statistical markers that, you know, if you're filling out a bracket and you want to take, you know, extra minute or two to see, you know, is this team a good free throw shooting team, are they not compared to some of their competition? That's like one pretty simple metric that I always look at as I kind of weighing which two teams to. To decide if it's close in my mind.
- [16:43]
Ben Pickman
Oh, okay. I have some homework to do. I'm going to take a few extra minutes on that aspect because it's so true. You even saw that in a lot of the conference tournament outcomes, how important that is. Okay, so elite guard play, and not just elite guard play, that they can score, but they can handle pressure because the defense is going to be turned up in the tournament. But yes, free throws are so big. All right, I got a question for both of y'all. What matters more to you when you're choosing teams, three point percentage or free throw percentage?
- [17:16]
Mark Schindler
I would probably just say free throw percentage, to be honest. Like, I think so. 3.3point percentage can just be like, really murky because it depends on the kind of shots you're taking, how you're getting them. But free throw percentage, I mean, that's pretty tried and true. True. If you, if you suck at free throw shooting, that. That's the number is a pretty good indicator.
- [17:32]
Ben Pickman
Yeah.
- [17:32]
Mark Schindler
So I think I would say free throw shooting.
- [17:34]
Ben Pickman
Okay, Ben, I'm guessing you might be on the same page.
- [17:37]
Tara Vandeveer
Well, the one fun thing about looking at 3 point percentage is like you can kind of convince yourself, especially for three point attempts, like a team could win if they shoot a lot of threes. Because if they shoot a lot of threes, then maybe that's the night in which they make them. So if you're looking for kind of like fun upset picks, that is a stat to look at. Like, does a team just zack up threes? Because you know, that might lead to some high variance depending on how they are as a three point shooting team. But yeah, I think if you're looking for kind of a little bit more stability, looking at free throw percentage as Mark said, like tried and true, a stat that I think you can lean on a little bit.
- [18:10]
Ben Pickman
All right, well now, before we move on to potential paths to the Final Four, because of course, all of those tips are going to help us get to that point where we can choose the right Final Four, which was a tip provided by Mark, there are a couple things I want to talk about. Kind of like in this quiet dead space right before things really kick off, the first NCAA tournament in a while without one of those women. Actually a few of those women who happen to bring a lot of eyeballs to the sport. First person I'm thinking comes to mind, Caitlin Clark, but also tons more around her, particularly in that last class that just went to the wnba. Caitlin Clark leading the charge there with Angel Reese and their duel. Camila Cardoso, Cam Brink, Alyssa Peely. Like, there were so many personalities in the tournament in the last two years and they're now out in the W. So curious how you guys think that the absence of them will impact this year. Personally, I don't think too much will change because there's still a ton of personalities in the game today on the college level. So, Ben, I'm going to turn it to you because you cover the W and obviously college. What do you think the landscape is going to look like for this tournament in terms of excitement, viewership? All the above?
- [19:30]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, I mean, I think the floor on what these ratings and what viewership is going to be is much higher than it was even a couple years ago. But if we're looking at the other end of the spectrum, like, I think it's unfair to expect that, you know, the national championship game on the women's side is going to average 18.9 million viewers, that record setting game that it did a year ago. And actually, you know, our colleague Richard Deitch at the Athletic, he has a story that's up on the site on Tuesday morning where he talked to some people at espn, including their VP Meg Arnovitz, who runs women's college basketball. And she was open about like they're not expecting to get that kind of Caitlin Clark number in the national championship as they did last year. But if you look across the board at the regular season, like ESPN, you know, viewership was up 3% year over year from last season. It was a 41% from 22, 23 season. There were 15 games in which there were more than 500,000 viewers tuned in. There was a December game on Fox between UConn and USC. It was their second highest rated game ever so the ratings have been really good this year and interest has grown or remained pretty steady. Obviously there is a flood of interest that usually comes in in March and I would suspect those ratings to go up, but I don't think we're going to get Caitlin Clark level, you know, Angel Reese level, tournament records every single round. The way it felt like it was commonplace a season ago.
- [20:51]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I think the cool part about the Caitlin Clark, I mean, of course the logo threes were crazy, but particularly the Caitlin Clark Angel Reese dynamic, it added a flare of drama, right? You had these protagonist antagonists, however you labeled the two, but you had this like story within the story that caused and fueled the viewership in that even if you didn't know what was going on in basketball, you wanted to see these two teams go at each other a little bit this year. I do think the viewership has been really set in the basketball because there isn't this dynamic of foe right in between Caitlin and Angel. There's really just who's the best, right? You want to see great basketball. Earlier this season we saw juju go up against Paige and that was the dynamic of just great basketball. Mark, I want to turn it to you like from the perspective of not having a Caitlin Clark Angel Reese, you know, from a dramatic perspective, but then also Camila Cardoso in the center of the South Carolina amazing offense and defense that they were, and all the different personalities that were happening across the landscape of women's college basketball last year, now that that is graduated, there's still personalities, do you think it'll be enough to push the viewership up as it was last year?
- [22:06]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, well, I'm definitely not like a viewership expert, but with respect to, obviously, I think, I mean, Ben laid out a lot of great stuff with that, but I think just with respect to where the game is at, like you mentioned personality wise and how some of that stuff gets viewed, I think a lot of it to me is, I mean, on the way these things get broadcast, if we're picking it apart and pulling at it like that. And I think part of what's exciting with this bracket is we set up a lot of continuations of stories that happened this year or last year. So like you mentioned that UConn USC game, if things go chalk, which personally I would expect them to, in Spokane four with USC and UConn, we have a rematch of Paige and Juju and it's the rubber match, it's the third match we get between those two teams and they're obviously different teams. From last year, different teams than they were earlier than this year. But like, at the heart of it, you have Juju Watkins and Paige Beckers, two of the biggest stars in college basketball. And just women's basketball at large, like, that's huge. And you can pull out multiple things like that across the bracket. I think that's probably obviously going to be the biggest one that most are looking at. But yeah, I mean, to me it's just about like continuing to hit on and expanding those things as they kind of unfold and we get to that and being able to hype up and expand on those things.
- [23:13]
Tara Vandeveer
And if I can just add one little, I guess, more technical thing that is going to be incorporated into the broadcast this year. And Richard has this in his piece that ESPN's production is adding something called high frame rate technology this year, which is basically super slow motion sequences of key moments in a game for viewers. So think like some of the stuff we see in the NFL, like shallow depth of field cameras that make it feel a little bit more like cinema or a video game. So, you know, if you're a little bit of a tech broadcast nerd, like, that is something to look out for. That could really help make some of these key moments and some of these key games that Mark talked about really shine even brighter.
- [23:51]
Ben Pickman
I love that. I feel like the only thing that I always see during the NCAA tournaments, both on the men and women's side, is that one camera that just like run along the side for like the start of a transition, like when a dead ball happens and they're taking the ball out on the other side of the court and they're dribbling the ball up. It's that one camera that like sees the dribble up and that's it. And then it goes back to that aerial view and it's like, I'm not sure what the point of the air the side camera is. They look really cool, they look really tall. But other than that, like, that's the, the extent of what we're seeing. So that is really cool that they're going to be allowing the games and moments in the game to be just slowed down just a little bit. I'm happy we're talking about viewership because I think that's one of the big three. I would say, in my opinion that evaluates just how people are excited about what's going on and want to watch and engage with it. Number one is the physical aspect of buying tickets. Two, if you're not there, are you watching on tv, which is TV viewership. But the third. The third's an interesting one. In California, we're not supposed to do it. There's a few states that are doing it, and I'm talking about sports gambling. If you guys have been watching these games, the NCAA games, even the NBA games, like, unrivaled, had them in their commercials, too. There's been all these commercials about not having sports gambling to, like, bully and badger athletes. So it's clearly on the minds of everyone of how sports gambling is going to be a part of this experience, a part of the game. And Ben, you are actually going to write about this. This is going to be live on the site today, I believe. So tell us a little bit more about how sports gambling is going to show up in the women's basketball space. Because it's always been men's, and I feel like women's is coming along. What's that looking like for us?
- [25:29]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, it's a great observation, Zena, because there are a lot of changing dynamics in the women's sports betting space, and we should say the online women's sports betting space, as you mentioned, right now there's 38 states where you can legally online sports bet, as you said. California is not one of them, I believe. But basically what this story tries to get into is like, in March Madness, we're going to get flooded with all these sports betting opportunities to bet on favorite players and who's going to win and, you know, who's going to win games and who's going to score the most points. And that is something that is, like, new and continues to increase. But actually, if you look at, like, the regular season, that's really where you see a lot of differences between the men's game and the women's game. And we see still a big difference in how sportsbooks are kind of handling women's college basketball and men's college basketball. And that so often, you know, you can find a dozen, two dozen, three dozen. You know, I counted up to around 50 games on some nights of men's options and like 10 on the women's side. Right. And we're talking small schools versus big schools on the men's versus the women's side. And so what this story tries to do is get into, like, the reasons why that is. And we kind of boil it down to things like resource allocation, literally, like staffing. Do you have people to help on the back end processes? We talk about product placement, like, how prominently is something pushed and then a question of demand that sports Books are still wondering, like, how much interest is there. And we have some data that says there's actually a little bit more interest than people think. And in many ways, it's the chicken or the egg dilemma that, you know, sports books are kind of wrestling with and dealing with that we've seen in, you know, the TV space and the media space. Like, if you don't present something prominently, well, then there's not gonna be a ton of growth in interest. Right. Or if you don't commit resources to something, then it's going to be really hard to, you know, draw conclusions. So, you know, March is a time in which we're going to see a lot more people betting on women's college basketball than they did during the regular season. And that is, you know, great for interest, I guess, and great for the sports books and great for anyone that makes money. God bless you if you do from it. But don't forget about the regular season is also one of the kind of conclusions of this story, because that's still where you see a lot of these inequities exist. Prominent foreign.
- [27:44]
Ben Pickman
Let's keep it moving to the next part of our conversation, the roads to the Final four. We got 68 teams in the mix for March Madness, but top of mind for everyone, of course, is the Final Four, not the first four. To that end, our writers picked some of the top seated teams in the tournament and played out their chances for making it to the very end. So I want to talk through that with Ben and Mark. Let's actually start with the team that I think our writers chose to have a particularly potentially shaky way to the Final Four. And I'm going to start with Texas. Okay. I'm curious what has been a little bit of the hesitancy about Texas having a clear path to the Final Four? Because I'm not reading it just on our site. I've seen it in other spaces as well. I've seen it on social people. They're a little bit hesitant on Texas. So, Mark, I'm going to start with you. What's the road for Texas to the Final Four? What are your thoughts overall for that team?
- [28:43]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I think the hard part for Texas and just anybody in Birmingham, three, that region is really tough. Like, you have, obviously, Notre Dame, you have tcu, you have Texas. I think this is the region, to me, that has the most teams that can actually like that are like legit Final Four contenders or have been throughout the year. But from just an actual Texas perspective, I think the hardest part, and not that I think that they're just going to lose games by 18 or 19 points. Like what happened in the SEC final that, you know, those games happen. I think my biggest worry for this team is just in general, like their three point shooting discrepancy. And I know that we love like in general and like there's, there's always a love to like push. Like, oh well, they don't have to do that to win. But I do think it's been a real problem in the games where they have lost when they actually play teams that can match up with them size wise, guys that can match up athletically if you force them to play in a phone booth and they can't win that game by playing their way. I think it's really hard for them. For reference, they are dead last in the country out of 362 teams in three point rate. Like, and that to me that's not like a cute gimmick. Like, that's just a, like, it is actually harmful to you when you're in situations when you need to have a better space floor. So like when we have a game, like when they go down early to a team like South Carolina, like what happened in the SEC tournament, like what happened in the first time they played South Carolina, it's really difficult for them to claw back into that game unless they have this giant core shift and are able to get like 10 offensive rebounds in a row. That's really hard to do. Like, I think it obviously gets pushed a lot like the three point shot as a separator. Sometimes teams go like way overboard or that's what their foundation is. I'm not saying that's what it has to be Texas is. But like doing it where you are like literally the team that does it the least in the country and also not being super efficient at it in general, that's really difficult. So like, I do think that is going to be a question at least that comes up on this team's route to the Final Four while playing a really difficult field against them.
- [30:40]
Ben Pickman
Dead last is crazy. I don't think I knew that, Ben. Obviously we just talked a little bit about discrepancies between three point shooting and free throw shooting and like which one you would trust more. I'm definitely not going to trust a team that's dead last in three point rate. Like, that's crazy. What are your thoughts on Texas's path to the Final Four? Because yes, Notre Dame is tough, especially if they recapture the magic they had earlier in the season and then TCU's got two very talented graduate level players in Haley Van Lith, Sedona, Prince. Those are tough teams to come through. What are your thoughts on Texas?
- [31:16]
Tara Vandeveer
No, it's a tough route and Mark really does call out the kind of key reason that I think a lot of people have hesitation about the Longhorns. And I think it's a super fair, super, super fair call out to kind of highlight their lack of three point shooting. But on the other side of the coin, they're basically elite at everything else. Like, they are top five in defensive rating. They're top 10 in offensive rating, you know, top 20 in blocks per game. They're top 10 in points off turnover, top 10 in bench scoring, their second and second chance points. They're top 10 in points in the paint. Like, they are great at everything else. They just don't shoot a lot of threes. And it is super fair to wonder if there is going to be one night and this could happen. Like, this is the kind of beauty and you know, the heartbreak of the NCAA Tournament. There could be one night where a team just makes like 40, you know, not 40 threes, but like goes crazy from three point range and shoots them out of the tournament. But also like history of Texas this season would suggest that's probably not going to happen. Right? Like, they have three losses entering the NCAA Tournament. Two of them are to South Carolina and one of them was on the road at Notre Dame in overtime in which they just got outscored in that overtime, 12 to like, Texas is really, really, really good. And they don't look and play like a lot of kind of modern basketball teams in that, like, they don't shoot a lot of threes, as Mark said. But like, for me, I just still think like, they're so good at everything else that I'm willing to, to look past that. And I do think right now, like, they're kind of being slept on a little bit. Like, I know after Selection Sunday, you know, Dawn Staley was said she was a little bit surprised at how they were seated. Lindsey Gottlieb, she was upset about like, you know, UFC being the fourth number one. We didn't really see any of that kind of frustration from Vic Schaefer. But if you're looking at it like, I'm not hearing a lot of pro Texas shouting, that's what I'm saying on the Internet, on social media right now, like, they are a one seed. They did win 31 games. Like, let's not forget that. And I get TCU. I voted Mark Campbell coach of the year. I'm very high on tcu. Notre Dame, one of the six teams I think could really win the title. Like it is a really tough draw as Mark maps out. But like, let's just not forget that, that Texas is great at pretty much everything entering the NCAA tournament. They just don't shoot a lot of threes.
- [33:33]
Ben Pickman
And that's the crazy part about the NCAA tournament. Why it is madness is because what's the balance of all of the great things that they're able to do on one given night versus a particular opponent?
- [33:45]
Mark Schindler
I would continue to saying, like, I think they're a lock for the Elite Eight. Like, I think they're going to get there. I think Final Four is absolutely on the table for them. Like you look top to bottom. I do think whoever they face in the next round, especially if they were to face Creighton, like it's just, to me it's just highlights. Like you can't have an off quarter. Particularly like, okay, you play Tennessee or Ohio State potentially in the sweet 16. Two teams that. I think what's funny is like you go the exact opposite way too. Like, okay, well if Tennessee or Ohio State has a bad quarter, they are also out of a game. It's just fun because like, like we're talking about, I think when you play a style that is so what's the way to put it? Not that it's like, I don't want to make it sound like their style, like sticks or something like that, but like when you play a style that is just like very what they do, like that is what you're going to do. That is how you win games, that is how you lose games. That's what you're going to do no matter what. It's really tough when you have a five minutes off. And again, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's just, it's really interesting with how this bracket played out. I'm fascinated to see it.
- [34:42]
Tara Vandeveer
They do also have like Madison Booker who could be one of the best players, if not the very best player in this tournament. Like she could be the kind of player that, you know, people don't talk about her nationally or you know, people aren't talking about her now in the same way, you know as Juju Watkins or Paige Beckers or Hannah Hidalgo, but like she can be right there, a multi time conference player of the year, like first team all American, you know, dynamic wing score. Like she could also just carry a team for all that being said too. So, you know, I know Texas got about. No, she did it last year. I know Texas got like 12 seconds of conversation on. On the Sunday night show. I was taking notes. I had the stopwatch going. So just feel like we got to shout her out as well.
- [35:23]
Ben Pickman
Absolutely. And Madison Booker, like, as you mentioned, Mark, last year when Rory Harmon went down with her ACL tear, it was Madison Booker. That had to be the point for that Texas team. So you're talking about someone with size now that can play off ball and can handle pressure because she had to as a rookie, a freshman, last year, and now she's entering her sophomore season and just playing a lot better alongside Rory. So, yeah, I can see why Texas could still pull it out and get to the Final Four. It will be hard to do so against the likes of the defenses that they're going to come up against, particularly potentially an Ohio State, potentially a Notre Dame. TCU is just an offense powerhouse. It's going to be a matter of who can score more buckets. And I don't even get started on Madison Booker's pull up game because she's got a nasty jumper. All right, let's put some respect on Texas. I like that there's another team that needs some respect and unfortunately they're going to be in the same bracket as someone else that needs some respect, and that's usc and we're talking about Southern California, but also Connecticut. Connecticut being one of the teams that was in the conversation for a number one seed being put in the two seed with usc, a team that they met up against earlier this season, got the L and could use the tournament to get their lick back. Okay, this is an opportunity for them, but let's talk about both of these teams and finding their way to the Final Four because I do feel like it's gonna have to come between the two of them. Mark, what you thinking?
- [36:52]
Mark Schindler
We literally just had the conversation about viewership and all that. This is, I mean, come on, man. This is absolutely gamified. Let's put this storyline in aspect. Like, granted, like USC was going to be a one seed, Yukon was going to be a two seed, but they could have flipped it in different ways. So it's just funny that it played out this way. I have so many notes on like little random things that the committee did that was hilarious. Like, oh, hey, Lindsey Gottlieb, you want to play your former program the second round potentially? Cool. Let's do that. Oh, you know, you, you lost to this team last year in the second Round here are them. Like, it's just. Yeah, it's. It's very funny with the way some of that stuff.
- [37:24]
Ben Pickman
And by the way, Mark is referencing California, so.
- [37:26]
Mark Schindler
Oh, yeah, I should have said that.
- [37:28]
Ben Pickman
There you go.
- [37:28]
Mark Schindler
But, yeah, I think clearly it's going to go through those two teams. I mean, it's a solid region overall. Obviously, a lot can happen, but I think clearly those are the two teams that are probably most primed to get to that. UConn, to me, would. I would say that they're the strongest two seed. I don't really think that's going out on a limb. But especially just like, looking at top to bottom, that's what makes it interesting. So I understand where Lindsey Gottlieb is coming from for sure, especially after you've beaten them during the year. But at some point, you're gonna have to play people again, right? Yeah, I'm ready for that game. The sicko in me is like, let's get it. Let's bring it here. Now I'm excited for.
- [38:05]
Ben Pickman
Okay, so you're anticipating usc, Connecticut meeting up to get to the Final Four.
- [38:11]
Mark Schindler
Yes.
- [38:11]
Ben Pickman
And who are you taking?
- [38:13]
Mark Schindler
Oh, I don't know. I gotta see how they look. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm here to fence it. I'm not going to give you an answer until 24 hours before the game.
- [38:21]
Ben Pickman
Got it. Okay. Ben. I talked to Sabrina and Chantel, and as I was looking, I was like, oh, you know, maybe Birmingham 2 is pretty tough, you know, because I'm thinking Duke, North Carolina, whatever. But again, we were just like live reacting. And then I started looking at Spokane 4 because Sabrina and Chantel were like, this USC path is gonna be crazy. And I was like, oh, shoot. Kentucky is in this mix. Iowa is in this mix. And also Kansas State may be getting Aoka Lee back, who's also in this mix. This bracket is crazy, and it's also a big dominated bracket. You've got Oklahoma with Reagan Beers at three seed. You know, obviously Clara Strack at Kentucky as well. We just talked a lot about the guards, but there's a lot of great bigs in this conversation, too, with Kiki Iriafen at USC as well. What are your thoughts on USC, UConn, anyone in this bracket, like particularly USC and UConn, their path to the Final Four?
- [39:16]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, I mean, I do see foresee, I guess, all these roads leading to that elite game, USC, UConn, a kind of rematch of last year's elite eight game and one of the, you know, best games of this regular season back in December. But, you know, if we're going to call out two teams that I think could make this especially tough, I think you make the right call. And Kentucky being a four seed, like it is Kenny Brooks's first season with the Wildcats, but they climbed as high as number eight in the AP poll this year. They have someone like Georgia Amore alongside Kenny Brooks, who went to a Final Four when she was at Virginia Tech. Right. They have Clara Strack, a center who is one of the best shot blockers in college basketball. Like Amor is the kind of player that is dynamic enough to potentially muck things up and throw a monkey wrench in the plans of so many people who are really hoping to see this USC UConn Elite 8 game kind of on the bottom of the bracket for me. Like, I'm targeting Oklahoma as, you know, a team to watch. You know, the Sooners, they lead the nation in pace, their 11th and three point attempts per game. You know, we've kind of talked about how three point shooting can be a little bit volatile. Like they only shoot it at around a 32% clip, but they take a lot of them. And so, you know, maybe if they get the right night, get hot on the right night, like, they could shoot a team out of the tournament. But Reagan Beer is also on the inside. Like, we saw her last year when she was playing at Oregon State, basically, like put that team on her back and lead them to an elite eight. You know, she is a force on the inside. And, you know, UConn's front court depth, especially guarding a player like beers, like a little bit unproven. And so, you know, that is definitely a potentially tough matchup or just a really appealing, exciting game to watch. I think that would happen in the sweet 16. But, you know, in the end, I still think, like, all roads here lead to the one and the two seed here, you know, and if you're going to ask my prediction, I know, you know, Mark is allowed to wait on that. I have no problem with people who are still weighing it. We had to make our public predictions on Sunday night, Forrest or then went live on the site. I have UConn winning the whole tournament. I think they can go up to the highest ceiling of any team in this tournament. And I think we saw that against South Carolina when they beat South Carolina in South Carolina. Paige Beckers and Sarah Strong to me, plus a healthy, easy fud, I think is a really, really difficult combination, a really difficult trio. So, you know, I think Lindsey Gottlieb Will come away frustrated in a couple weeks time, per our prognostication, which, you know, could very well be wrong. So don't. Don't bet on it, I guess, is what I would say.
- [41:40]
Ben Pickman
You know what's so funny? I'm acting shocked, as if I didn't. I didn't read this already, but it still is crazy to hear you say it. It's gonna be a big one, I think. You know, Jenna Alfie from UConn is gonna have to have the best post player night, period, all throughout that bracket. Like, they're going to need some serious strength inside for a lot of the teams that they're going up against, whether it's strong bigs like Reagan Beers, athletic bigs like Claire Strack or Kiki, like, it's just going to be. Or Aoka. I mean, who knows what that's going to look like if she's back into the mix too. That's another player that can take a team on her back. But we're talking about pigs. It might be time to transition. Okay, gonna talk to the last two teams here that were really back and forth for number one overall seed. Okay. And Dawn Staley felt a type of way about not being the number one overall seed, but both number one seeds. We're talking ucla, we're talking South Carolina. First, I'm gonna ask Mark, which of the two teams has an easier path to the Final Four for you?
- [42:40]
Mark Schindler
I'm thinking in my head right now, I would personally say that it's South Carolina.
- [42:47]
Ben Pickman
Okay.
- [42:47]
Mark Schindler
And here's my thing. I think both of them have, like, relatively easier paths. The way that the other two regions pulled out for Texas and usc. Like, I think I'd just be glad to not be in those regions. I would just say too, like, point blank, I understand where dawn was coming from. Like, I can appreciate her sentiment while also recognizing too, like, she is in her bubble of her team. Like, I get that with the schedule they played for sure. But from the actual bracket perspective and from the committee's perspective, number one, I just would like to see more clarity from the committee on how they value things throughout the year. I think they were very inconsistent how they use head to head. So I can appreciate. Like, I do think the head to head should matter. Like, head to head should matter. In having this be a separator. There wasn't as big of a discrepancy between quad one wins. I think it was South Carolina had two more quad one wins thank than usual. A. And that's impactful. But when you have that kind of head to head, it matters. Still, I'd also note that South Carolina is our first team that's lost a game by 20 points that ended up a one seed. And I believe the last four years, not using that as a thing against them, but that's just. There are multiple variances in that. I do think, like the competitive aspect in that loss, like you can point out how well they've played since the Yukon loss, arguably been the best team in the country, but that loss still happened. It's on your resume. So again, I understand the perspectives and sides of it. It's just like giving the actual bracket detail. That's where I would be at. I, I think that especially seeing how the committee had UCLA still as the number one overall team on their last reveal, like, I wasn't surprised at all that UCLA wound up the number one seed overall.
- [44:20]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I, I wonder if the committee at all commends teams for setting up incredibly tough schedules because Dawn Staley deserves awards for the amount of games that she set up for South Carolina to not only get them prepared for the tournament, but also to give us, the audience, amazing basketball early in the season, not having to wait until the conference games to be able to see great matchups. And even, even when the conference was happening, there were matchups outside of conference that we got to see in terms of really great basketball. So I don't know how much, you know, kudos you get from the committee for that, but we'll give you kudos, Don, here at the Athletic, they ended.
- [44:56]
Mark Schindler
Up the number two overall seed in the bracket.
- [44:58]
Ben Pickman
Like ye.
- [44:58]
Mark Schindler
I don't know.
- [44:59]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, there you go. Right? Exactly. It's just like, are we pulling hairs here for between number one, number two, but yes. Okay, so just to wrap that up, you're thinking South Carolina has an easier path than ucla.
- [45:09]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I think they're like similarly, you know, as far as having a one seed.
- [45:13]
Ben Pickman
Okay. Okay. Well then, Ben, I want to ask you, which path do you like more as you're looking at UCLA or South Carolina? Which ones you like more in terms of the potential matchups you're going to get to see?
- [45:23]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, I mean, I am most interested in a potential ucla, NC State game in the elite. And I think NC State, again, like, they're a two seed here. They're probably one of the most slept on, least talked about teams in the NCAA tournament in this field of 68. But you know, history would say like when West Moore's teams in recent years gets, you know, one of these one, two or three seeds. They do pretty well overall, right? They did go to a Final Four last year. In 2021, 22, they were one seed. They went to a regional final. The year before that, they were a one seed. They went to a regional semi. In 2019, they were a three seed. They went to a regional semi. Like the year before that they were a four. They went to a regional semi. Like you could probably book NC State win in two games. And I think it's a pretty safe bet that with Rivers and James in the backcourt, like they're going to win a third game and advance to the Elite Eight. You know, they might not have the size to match up against ucla, but NC State's a really good team and it wouldn't be shocking if they made it back to a Final Four. I wouldn't be stunned. Let me put it that way. Not picking it. I think UCLA advances. Let me be clear here. I picked UCLA to win the title last year, so maybe I was just a little bit early on that prediction. I'd like it to be known. Maybe not wrong, just early. But yeah, I have them getting back to the Final Four of the Bruins, but NC State, really good team. That's going to be a really good game in the Elite.
- [46:37]
Ben Pickman
Okay, yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I'm obsessed with that backcourt. Isaiah James and Sinai Rivers. Like, I also love Zoe Brooks and she can get really hot from three. Like I. I actually have NC State beating UCLA and main reason I think that I think it's the speed with which they play, particularly on defense in transition as well. I think it can tire out ucla. I don't know if they'll be able to run with them. And at that point you got momentum, you know, you're so close. I think that NC State will step it up even more. I don't know if I'm being a homer because I'm from North Carolina, but I do have NC State going. And I also chose NC State to get to the Final Four. Last year I chose them to be in the championship, but, you know, things changed. So I want to ask you guys, between UCLA and South Carolina, which team is more likely to be undercut, upset, or just to be caught off guard earlier in the tournament, even if they advance? I'm talking about a game that comes down to crunch time. They barely pull out, like between UCLA and South Carolina.
- [47:46]
Mark Schindler
Who do you think I would personally put? Ucla. And that's not meant as a slide I just think, like, I still have questions about their three point shooting. Like whenever they have games that get tight, like, I think they've had more answers this year with just lineup, versatility and flexing things. But like, even if you take that game, the theoretical game against NC State, I have more confidence in NC State, like with what they can do with their shooting and how they kind of spread the court. I think the tough part is I understand why people get frustrated that Lauren Best doesn't get the ball. But part of it is she has three bodies on her. Like, there's just a lot of times where people, where teams do not fully respect UCLA's three point shooters and rightfully so. So it's not easy to get the ball into the paint. And if, if UCLA doesn't establish themselves from outside the arc early, particularly from the guards, it's hard to do. So I just think there's more ways for UCLA to kind of get refined down. In some of those games. I would still pick them to make the Final Four, but I just think it's a little bit easier game playing some of those things against South Carolina.
- [48:44]
Ben Pickman
And I think the two games that USC had against UCLA before the Big Ten championship gave you the game plan on how to take Lauren Betts out of the game. And if I'm a coach, I'm telling everyone we're not watching anything else except those two games. They made it seem so easy. And the guards at UCLA did not find a way to relocate to get Lauren open. I mean, it felt so strange that there wasn't some sort of action early in offense to get Lauren Betts open immediately so that offense can get going. Ben, I'm going to ask you the same question, like in terms of ucla, South Carolina, which ones are more likely to kind of get their shoelaces tied early and get tangled and trip up early in the tournament?
- [49:25]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, I mean, the right answer here is neither. I would expect neither of them to get tripped up in the first or second rounds of this tournament. But I think if we're looking at one team who could fall prior to the Final Four or maybe prior to the Elite Eight, I agree with Mark that I think ucla, for the reasons he mentioned, is that choice.
- [49:40]
Ben Pickman
Okay. All right, this makes sense. So these are their paths to the Final Four. And before we close this out, Ben, you have your Final Four live. Tell us what those Final Four are.
- [49:52]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, I have UCLA and UConn on the left side of my bracket and I have South Carolina and Texas and the SEC rematch for the fourth time in the right side. I have UConn advancing the championship to play South Carolina. And I have the Huskies getting back in the winter circle for the first time since 2016.
- [50:12]
Ben Pickman
Just enough of a chip on their shoulder to be number two to get to the final. Okay, okay. I'm not done with my bracket yet, so I just can't. I don't.
- [50:20]
Tara Vandeveer
Xena, we should say these are all heart picks right now. Like the, the mind selection, like the head hasn't really fully said. And we're still, we're. We're taping this on Monday afternoon. It's less than 24 hours since the bracket reveal. Like asterisk next to everything we say.
- [50:34]
Ben Pickman
There you go. Okay, that's fair. Now, Mark, we had you on the show last week to give us a little bit of primer for the tournament. And I know you have a ton of information just floating around in that head of yours. Just all the games that you've watched this year and then of course this bracket. But you have a lot of information about teams that a lot of folks don't know about because you're constantly watching games. It's amazing. Now you were holding back last time because we didn't have the bracket. And now that the bracket is live, I want to get into some of your personal favorite teams. Now these are the teams that we're not necessarily anticipating to win the whole thing. They're not going to necessarily win the title, but they could get further than people anticipate in the tournament. So Mark, who are some of those teams on your list?
- [51:25]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I have multiple. I think the first one I would look at. I don't want to say that they're going to upset them. That's not my anticipation at all. But I think this could be a really tough game in the second round. Oklahoma State is really good. They have a lot of size. They're a fantastic offensive team. I really just like the way that they play. I think again, like when you're talking about having a player on the inside who could. To me, I think having this as the first, like the first real test, you know, getting to the second round for, for UConn is, is important because I liked what you mentioned about Janet Alfie. I think for them to make it to the final Four and to also potentially compete for a national championship, I think they need her to play at her best version. Playing against a 6, 6 shot blocker in 10. And Magasa is going to be really big against OK State. A good lead in there. Another Team that I really like, that I think has gotten not a ton of love this year is Richmond. Richmond is an 8 seed, is like, I think a lot of people knew, oh, cool, they're gonna make the NCAA tournament, blah, blah, blah. But, like, people just haven't been tuned in because they're not watching the A10. That team is really tough. They were very good last year, gave Duke a really good game. I'd anticipate them to be tough. George Mason's had a really fun run. It's their first time in. In the NCAA Tournament. I love what Vanessa Blair Lewis is doing there. If I could throw out one last. It's not an upset pick, per se, or whatever, but Michigan as a six seed is tough. And a lot of people are, like, coming out early, getting trendy with, oh, I think Princeton or Iowa State's gonna upset that. I don't think so. Watching the way that this team is played down the stretch, they do not lose games like that. Like, they come out, they are very competitive. Yes, they're young, but they get after it. And that is a tough draw for Notre Dame in the second round, especially for a team where we're talking about, like, oh, they need to recapture where they were at. Not the team I would necessarily want to be having to face if I was looking to recapture something. So, I mean, there's tons up and down the board, but those were the ones that come to mind immediately.
- [53:25]
Ben Pickman
No, I appreciate that. When you said. A lot of people have said, yeah, I was one of those people. I definitely was like, oh, maybe I was stay. I don't know. I don't know. And now I took some time this morning. I was like, no, I like the way that Michigan and exactly what you mentioned closes games. All right, I'm turning the wheel over to you, Ben. Some of the teams that were not anticipating to win the title, but you should keep an eye out for, because they'll be tough and they'll be fun to watch during the tournament.
- [53:48]
Tara Vandeveer
Yeah, I just had two I really wanted to call out. And I think fun to watch is the apt phrase, and maybe more than fun, because these are good teams to watch. But Vanderbilt being one of them in the first draft of my bracket, I actually have them going all the way to the elite Eight. You know, Mikayla Blakes and Camille Pierre, a dynamic, incredibly high scoring backcourt. Very fun to watch, as you kind of alluded, Xena, you know, Vandy, a top 10 offense, they score a lot in transition. Their top 10 fast break points. They get a lot of second chance points. Overall, they don't turn it over a ton. Like they're the kind of team, they play at a fast pace. Like, you know, Duke is a really good defensive team and you know them Vandy advancing into the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 would entail like them having to win basically a road game at Duke. But I think that offense is more than capable enough to do just that with a coach like Shea Ralph, who has been there before, albeit with UConn, but knows how to, you know, I think scheme and prepare her players for big games. So that is one call out for a team that I'm pretty high on heading into the draw. The other one is Florida State. A lot of the same reasons. You know, Tanaya Latson, the leading scorer in the NCAA this year. You know, Michaela Timpson on the inside, 17 and 10 for the Seminoles. I like that. You know, George Mason, a really nice story that they're getting in the tournament, but I, I like what Ladson can do in that one. LSU would be, be their potential matchup in the second round. There's some health questions, right as it relates to Flasher Johnson and An Amoro. I think we're going to see them available, but like what percent are they right? And so you suddenly throw in just this dynamic score in Latson, like she could certainly win them a game. And then like I'm going back and forth with this Florida State, NC State game. I think it would be a really, really good game, you know, lots and is the kind of player that, you know, I had a WNBA front office member tell me like she's an advantage player. Like when you put her on the floor, like, you know that like you can do something really, really well better than your opponent pretty much every night out. And that is the kind of player that, you know, we're targeting potential breakout stars of this tournament who could lift a team on a deep run. Like, you know, I think Blake's fits that mold and I think Watson is another player that fits that mold. So those are two teams that I'm pretty high on, you know, post bracket review.
- [55:59]
Ben Pickman
I love both of those teams, especially because the dynamic duos in both Vanderbilt, Michaela Blakes and Camille Pierre and then obviously KK Timpson and Tanay Latson at Florida State. I watched Florida State play against Stanford and Tanai Latson didn't have a great game. She definitely, I think she was, she scored double digits. Not a great game for her, but it was her not having a great game. I don't think it was Stanford that caused her not to have a great game. So it will be a factor of. If she shows up, I'll quickly close with mine. I think Harvard can find a way to get.
- [56:30]
Mark Schindler
Wow. No bias there.
- [56:32]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I'm just saying I, I think they're solid and I think they're disciplined and I think that's really important. I also, I don't know if I have enough. I'm still thinking, guys, I'm not gonna lie to you. I like Nebraska to get over on Louisville. I like their shooting. I like their inside game with Markowski. Those are the two. I'm going to stay there. I don't, I don't want to, like, think about it as we're going. Like I said, guys, I'm still doing this, this bracket and I'm still trying to figure it out. And I'm going to use everything that I've learned today to help me. I feel like I'm cheating on the test, but this is great. This is exactly what we were supposed to do. I am so grateful for the both of you to break that down. And that is all that we've got for you guys today. So come back and join us on Friday because we're going to keep doing this. Before the big Dance kicks off, we'll be joined by a very special guest, the legendary former Stanford coach Tara Vandevir. She'll be here to take all of your most burning bracket questions. And to that end, send us your questions. Mailbag, us, dm, us, tweet at us, Blue sky, whatever. I don't know what the action is there, but do that, do that. Let us know what your questions are and also email us at no offseason@the athletic.com. you can leave a comment on this video. You can leave a comment on our podcast episode. Just hit us up right in. We want you to brag about your bracket pool. We want you to own your bracket pool. And that's why we're allowing you to cheat on the test with our experts here. That's why we're here. So write in. We'll do our best to answer on Friday and everything you heard today, plus all that Q and A on Friday. It's going to help you when it's time to go fill out your bracket on the Yahoo. Fantasy Hub. Y'all remember that number I told y'all earlier? Don't worry, I got y'all. Okay. No off season bracket challenge, Idaho number 2519. 2519. Check out the show notes. For more info, come join our community of women's hoops lovers and compete for all the glory. And while you're there, check out our partner, Yahoo Sports. We got our Yahoo sports hub@sports.yahoo.com backslash women's sports on behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kaita with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Brenna Haupt is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations. As we head into the playoffs, it's.
- [59:27]
Tara Vandeveer
Safe to assume there will be a.
- [59:29]
Sabrina Merchant
Few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover.
- [59:35]
Tara Vandeveer
Believe it or not, Discover is accepted.
- [59:37]
Sabrina Merchant
At 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.
- [59:40]
Tara Vandeveer
You heard that right, 99%.
- [59:43]
Ben Pickman
So make a good call for your.
- [59:44]
Sabrina Merchant
Wallet and get Discover.
- [59:46]
Tara Vandeveer
Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.
- [59:48]
Sabrina Merchant
Learn more at discover.com credit card this.
- [59:51]
Unknown
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Mark Schindler
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Or taping songs off the radio?
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Mark Schindler
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Zena Keda
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Mark Schindler
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Zena Keda
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Mark Schindler
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