← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Impressive Showings And Uncharacteristic Play In The Playoffs
00:52:42
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- [00:02]
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- [01:21]
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- [03:23]
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- [04:56]
Zena Kaeda
For the Athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Welcome back folks to the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Shout out to Michelob Ultra. They have been a hot spot for this playoffs. They've been hosting an arena that's been rocking and that's what we're going to be talking about. The WNBA playoffs today, I got Sabrina Merchant in the building to tell me a little bit about what she saw over the weekend. Sunday's games, semifinals. The games did not disappoint. They were very exciting. And yeah, I think they went the way that we expected them to for, for the most part. But let's start off with the Connecticut sun versus the New York Liberty. So Barclays center. Crazy. Absolutely crazy. Those towels were going, the lights were flashing. I mean, it was so hype in that arena for the New York Liberty. As they stepped on the court to go against the Connecticut sun, you saw Alyssa Thomas rubbing her hands together. She was ready for this part of the WNBA playoffs. Unfortunately, that energy that was supposed to go for the New York Liberty did not go their way as they unfortunately could not carry that into victory. The sun, after being down by three points going into the half, 37, 40, they made that New York's only and largest lead of the game and ended up winning 78 to 63. They out rebounded the longer Liberty by five. They shot better from the floor at a 45% clip. Field goals. And the Liberty really uncharacteristically struggled from the three. They shot under 30% and they also gave up 13 points off turnovers. So let's talk the Connecticut side of this game first. Sabrina. The shining light to me in this game had to be the work of the three other starters outside of Alyssa Thomas and Dewana Bonner. Last week, Ben and I spoke about the fact that Connecticut would need more than Bonner and at being offensively productive in order for them to have a chance against the Aces. And on Sunday, talk about accountability. Dejana Bonner keeps saying that we're holding our players accountable. Rebecca Allen, Natisha Heideman and Tiffany Hayes were like, no, no, no, we will not be the ladies on film not being held accountable. They combined for 42 points and 16 boards. What stood out to you about that supporting cast at Connecticut?
- [07:31]
Sabrina Merchant
I think the main thing that stood out was Rebecca Allen. And it's such a cool story for Rebecca Allen because she is, I believe, the last active player in the WNBA who played a Liberty playoff game at Madison Square Garden. So for her to now be in a position where, you know, she's no longer on the Liberty, but she does get to play in their new arena in Barclays center in this rockin venue that's just been a really, really great home for the Liberty this year to go in there and just rip the hearts out of her former teammates. Right. Like she was talking about how she still loves Sab. She still loves Marine. These are still her girls. She wishes them well, except she wants herself to do better, obviously.
- [08:06]
Zena Kaeda
Right?
- [08:07]
Sabrina Merchant
But, like, she was so productive across so many different areas for the sun, right? Like, they put her on Benija Laney to start. They put her on Sabrina Unescu. They put her on Brianna Stewart. She has the length and the quickness to handle all of these different matchups. I mean, they call her Spida for a reason. Like, people do not expect Rebecca Allen's arms to be there when you're going out for a shot. I don't know why they don't expect it at this point. They should know it's her nickname. Like, this is what she does. And yet she was so disruptive, as you know, on the perimeter. She was so disruptive as a shot blocker. And then seven of nine from the field. Right. I think she hit multiple threes. How many threes? Four threes in this game. Just really, really impressive showing from Becca Allen. And like, to be in that situation again, like, this is. The Liberty is the only team that she'd played for in the WNBA up until this year. She's part of the Jonquil Jones trade. Jonquil Jones is having her moment for the Liberty, right? Like, she has that put back against. Or, you know, the offensive rebound that leads to free throws against the Mystics to help the Liberty get into the second round. But then Becca Allen's like, oh, you know, maybe. Maybe the sun are better off having gotten me in this trade. Right? Like, maybe I'm the one who can take this.
- [09:12]
Zena Kaeda
Right? Exactly. The thing is, what she was doing offensively, of course, was important. When you talk about kind of closing that gap that Alyssa Thomas. And we'll touch on Alyssa Thomas performance, but closing the offensive gap that Alyssa Thomas had. But just like you said, she was incredibly disruptive on defense, and she was so long. I mean, and she really set that pace, I think, right. When you look at that first quarter and all the things that she was doing to galvanize the sun, you can give that credit to Rebecca Allen. So I'm actually curious for you, what was more impressive or more impactful? Her offensive production or her defensive disruption?
- [09:50]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, I think just Connecticut, their identity being defense, I would have to lean towards Rebecca Allen's defense. This was the lowest point total the New York Liberty have put up all season. They scored 64 points in their opener against the Washington Mystics, another team that has given them difficulty throughout the entire season. We saw it. Even though they won 20 in that first playoff series. 63 against the sun in game one. They scored 23 points in the second half. That is wild. And for that offense, that beautiful flowing offense. Brianna Stewart entered this Postseason as the WNBA's all time leader in postseason points per game. And she is shooting less than 30% from the field in this series. She's made one of 17 of her three pointers in the playoffs. Like, this is not the Stewie that we've grown accustomed to. Part of that is just what great defense she's been subjected to. And that comes from Beck Allen, that comes from Nadesha Hydman and Dewana Bonner and Alyssa Thomas and everybody else that could sun throughout there. I just think their defense is what they hang their hat on, right? And that's what allows them to get out, get into the open floor. Alyssa Thomas is so good at throwing those outlet passes. So I think their offense really comes from their defense. So I think it's more important what they were able to accomplish in terms of that disruption.
- [10:59]
Zena Kaeda
That's a really good point about offense coming from defense because that is the thing that Alyssa Thomas could count on, right? Her being able to get a defensive rebound, taking it coast to coast and just plowing her way into the paint to get points. But that was ultimately the only way that she was able to create offense for herself. Because I thought it was really smart Jonquail Jones knowing her old teammate played off of her and she knew and she knows and most of the league should know. Don't give Alyssa Thomas a body to roll off of because sis is gonna spin. She wants to be able to have that physicality and that touch, to be able to know which way she wants to go. And so Jonquil Jones playing off of her, not allowing her to get that, you know, 15, 10 to 15 foot footer, as well as not being able to body her and use her body to score in the paint. You look at the fact that Alyssa Thomas finished with eight points. She did her thing in the assists. We know what she can do there. She also had seven boards, three offensive great. But she's actually struggled against the Liberty this entire season. She's averaged just 11.5 points against them. But everyone knows the Connecticut sun cannot win this series unless she unlocks a triple, double level Alyssa Thomas game, right? So I'm curious, you know, what did you make of how the Aces decided to defend her and what do you think Alyssa Thomas can do to counter that, to be impactful in the half court?
- [12:23]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, I don't actually think that Alyssa Thomas needs to be more of a scorer for this series to go well in the Suns favor because admittedly they did lose all four games to the Liberty during the regular season. And you would think that her averaging 11.5 points is a big part of that. But I thought the Liberty honestly respected her too much. One on one in the second half as that game went along. I thought they were sending too many bodies in her direction when she got into the paint. And the last thing you want to do is force Alyssa Thomas to be a passer because that is her favorite part of her offensive game is creating for her teammates. And I was so confused by all of these doubles that were coming her way when she got into the paint in the second half because she was just easily, you know, diamond of cutter is hitting her three point shooters, you know, good games for, as you mentioned, Natisha Heideman and Tiffany Hayes, you know, in that starting lineup. I almost thought it was like a similar problem to what the Lynx had in game one of their series was there was just too much congestion in the paint and they were allowing those Connecticut shooters space to operate on the perimeter. And we know Connecticut, they're going to go hot and cold in terms of their shooting, but if you give them open looks like these are capable shooters, they're going to take advantage of those. And I think you just have to trust that Jonquil Jones knows how to defend Alyssa Thomas one on one. You know, you don't need to bring help if JJ is the number one defender. Like JJ even blocked one of those trademark Alyssa Thomas shot puts, you know, from the free throw line, like she knows how to contend with her. So I really think that New York needs to keep letting Alyssa Thomas score instead of allowing her to create for everybody else. Because when she gets everybody else going, then you're in this terrible domino effect of like, they're comfortable, they get into the paint, the ball starts swinging, your defense is in rotation. I really think letting at get to 20 is probably a better solution than, you know, having her just feel so comfortable. The dish out 10 assists, I don't even know how many of those are for three pointers, but she was so impactful even when only putting up eight points.
- [14:18]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, I think this is a result of the not the myth because it's actual fact, but the halo around Alyssa Thomas. Right. All season we've been seeing these posts on the Internet, all these updates of Alyssa Thomas breaking records, triple doubles and just how dangerous she is. And what are the highlights package Usually they usually have her spinning in the paint, her having some monster post move. And so I think that as I'm sure as they were doing film and prepping for this player, there is this fear around. Don't let her get hot, and don't let her use a body inside. So subliminally, you're thinking it defensively. If you're on someone that you're not too concerned about shooting or doesn't seem like they're that involved in the play, you're like, ooh, that's a big, tough body in the middle rolling down to the paint. Let me go help. But you're absolutely right. Once Alyssa Thomas sees that, she's thinking teammates, she's thinking, out. Let me pass out. And that really gets her going. So, yeah, I mean, that's a really. That's an interesting take to, you know, go ahead and let her do that scoring rather than getting her teammates hot. Because you're right. If you can centralize it to just dejuanna Bonner and Alyssa Thomas, then those are your two threats. Now you've neutralized everyone else. So, thinking on the other side of this matchup, Stewie and Sabrina had a pretty quiet night. Now, Stewie, yes, did finish with 19 points, but, man, she was 0 from 8. 0 of 8 from 3. She put up one shot in the first quarter. Now, she gradually, you know, increased that amount. By the fourth quarter, she had put up 12 shots, and that one quarter made only two. Uh, but I. You can't imagine that she's going to continue to have those type of nights throughout this series. You look at Sabrina Ionescu, and she was 50% from the 3. 4 of 8. Great. Uh, but she did not go to the free throw line once, which is kind of like her signature. Right. I'm. I'm curious what you thought about the way they played. I felt like they looked disrupted a little bit offensively. I mean, the very first three, that. That one shot we're talking about that Brianna Stewart or took in the first quarter was bad. Like, it missed the whole basket. Why do you think they look so disruptive offensively? And, you know, how do you expect to shake. How do you expect them to shake that off in game two?
- [16:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, first of all, I think Connecticut deserves a lot of credit for how disrupted they looked offensively because, you know, Washington laid out this bullprint blueprint. If. If you aggressively, you know, pressure them on the perimeter, then they take longer to get into their actions. They don't have as much time for, like, a secondary Action to, you know, materialize. And that flow, that beautiful New York Liberty flow is just missing. And Connecticut not only has that, but, you know, the Mystics were dealing with the problem that, yeah, they have these great perimeter defenders, but then their backline is like Maisha Hines, Allen or Tiana Hawkins. And that's not what they were hoping for because Shakir Austin was unavailable. But with the sun, oh, now your back lines like Melissa Thomas or potentially Rebecca Allen or Dewana Bonner. And Bonner and Allen, great shot blockers. Like, they're. They're so much more capable of protecting the paint behind that aggressive perimeter defense. So I think Connecticut's game plan was really solid. And one thing that I've noticed is they're forcing Stewie to bring up the ball so much more than she did during the regular season. And like, that's a great luxury that you have 64 Brianna Stewart who can comfortably bring the ball up the court, initiate the offense, but you don't want her doing that. You want that to be Sloot. You want that to be sab. And the fact that they're pressuring those point guards so much that they are defaulting to having their, you know, six four forward bring the ball up, I think is just already like an initial loss when the possession even begins. Right, right. So I'd like to see more from Sloot initiating the offense. You know, our guy Ben Pickman mentioned that he saw that Sloot was sitting out for a portion of practice on Friday. I do wonder how much that injury that she suffered in between the end of the regular season and the start of the playoff is potentially affecting her. She only played 27 minutes in game one. Wasn't nearly as impactful as a creator as I thought she was going to be. Like the assist number suggests, I think she had seven assists in that game. But, like, you didn't really feel her effect on the half court offense to the same, you know, degree. So I'd like to see them put the ball more in Sloot's hands, you know, have her create more, even if it is less of that. Like, anybody can do anything type of situation. Like, it doesn't need to be democratic right now. Sloot's your best creator.
- [18:47]
Zena Kaeda
Right? Right.
- [18:48]
Sabrina Merchant
Let her make the plays. And then also like Sabrina, just her forays into the pain are not working. Like, Connecticut has done such a good job of collapsing on her when she gets inside of the three point arc. I think she was 0 of 6 on two pointers as you mentioned. She didn't get to the free throw line once she's getting a lot of contact. There was definitely one play where she was fouled by Rebecca Allen and it wasn't called. That's just the way the game is being played. And I think she has to adjust. Like, if the ball is more in Sleuth's hands, then that means you get more Sabrina relocations or catch and shoot threes. Right. And, you know, just have to modulate to their strengths a little more. If she gets out of the paint, then that leaves more room for Stewie to get in there, because Stewie was taking way too many jumpers for my taste. I do think Benij Alani is just naturally bound to bounce back in Game 2. She missed a lot of very makeable shots in game one that I don't think were necessarily a reflection of the defense. But, yeah, I mean, to me, it comes down to I think Sludge is their most important offensive player, maybe not their best offensive player. But what she does really sets the tone for what's to come, and I would like to see her dominating the ball a little bit more, at least at the start of possessions.
- [19:53]
Zena Kaeda
The New York Liberty definitely showcased how important it is to have a creation or creating point guard because Stewie and Sab both thrive off of being able to relocate and create their game off in the off action. And then coming back to the ball or being able to get the ball back from Sloop, she definitely. That team relies on that. So if you, like you said, take your pressure away from the point guards, you're really slowing them down. And they like to run. I love the tweet Natasha Cloud put out of the New York Liberty were runting on the Mystics, and I was like, that's a new one. They were runting. Okay, it's not running, it's runting. But yeah, they couldn't do that when Connecticut center slowing them down like that. You mentioned Benjulaney, and that's someone that I definitely wanted to talk about Tonight two or not tonight, right now two before Tuesday's game because she had a rough night out there, you know, stat line, 31 minutes, one of nine from the floor. She had three points total. She did get two O boards, fascinatingly. Got no defensive rebounds, which, you know, when you think about bet Nigelaney's game, her hustle, what she does for the Liberty, and the things that aren't necessarily putting the ball in the basket, but are still incredibly impactful for setting the tone, setting a pace, and setting the Liberty up for success. This stat Line can't be repeated. And you mentioned that you think she's gonna shake it off. What did you make of her game and what do you think that, what do you expect from her moving forward in this series?
- [21:33]
Sabrina Merchant
So, as I said, I expect her to make more shots around the room. It's just she missed some looks that were pretty simple. I mean, I would prefer that she didn't try to post up, you know, Rebecca Allen one on one because Beck does have the size to recover and block her sh fairly easily. But for me, Laney's disappointment was more on the other side of the floor, like Tawana Bonner was abusing her. And you don't think of Laney as a defender that is going to get beaten up to that degree. I mean, I believe she was just named second team all defense. Like, this is one of the top 10 defenders in the WNBA. She gets a variety of assignments. She's like the focal point of the Liberty's perimeter defense and she was just not getting the job done on that end of the floor. Like you mentioned, zero defensive rebounds. Bonner just repeatedly getting by her. Beck Allen repeatedly getting by her. I think that's where the improvement needs to come. And you don't look at a game where Connecticut sun scored 78 points and think like, oh, we screwed up on that another floor. But I really do believe that Connecticut was just getting the shots they wanted too easily and that shouldn't be happening against Benijelini. So where it really needs to tighten up for her is just better point of attack defense on the other end of the floor and staying more steady so that she's not continually allowing her player to, you know, to get by her.
- [22:47]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, I feel the same. I, I. Even though it is great when you push the ball in the basket, when you have as many offensive threats as the Liberty have, you don't need her doing that. But what you need her doing are those hustle plays are the defensive stances and that she takes against other teams. Like that's what you really want to see. So hopefully the Liberty can get that out of her for Game 2 on Tuesday. Now, Connecticut did win this game and despite the win, they weren't perfect specifically in that second quarter. And I thought that the Liberty were going to capitalize on the mistakes that they were making. They being, you know, the sun and try to build a lead that the sun could not come back from. I mean, the sun had no turnovers in the first. They were rolling. Girls look good. Okay, then six, six turnovers in the second, including two back to back. Dijonay Carrington coming off the bench going back to back turnovers. They also went behind some screens in the first half, you know, and gave Unescu just enough, just enough clearance that she could get her threes up. They cleaned it up. They only had two turnovers for the remainder of the game, but it did show a sign of weakness that I think the Liberty are going to try and capitalize on for next game. How can you think that the Liberty can try and create that same level of disruption and really speeding up that you saw from the Connecticut sun in that second quarter and try to capitalize on the defensive mistakes next game?
- [24:16]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, I thought the Sun's mistakes in the second quarter were more just a function of them not being clean than the Liberty doing a lot to get in the passing lanes or disrupt them. I did think Kayla Thornton was quite good actually, defensively. Her getting on the court more, it definitely helps Liberty's defense. I'm still not sure what exactly it does with their offense because it's hard to play her. Laney Jones, Stewie altogether kind of cramps the spacing a little bit. But I, I kind of think the sun. More of those mistakes were self inflicted and it almost did the Liberty a disservice that they went into halftime with the lead because I don't think they played well at all in that first half. And for them to have that advantage, it made it seem like, oh, we beat this team four times during the regular season. We came back multiple times against them, big deficits, you know, against the sun and we're able to retake the lead. That's just what's going to happen again. And then the sun just, you know, put on that blitz right at the start of the third quarter and the game was basically decided then. So I, I'm inclined to believe that this was more of the sun just cleaning things up that they needed to in the second half more so than the Liberty doing anything to really take them out of their offense. Dijonay Carrington, again, this is another health situation. She didn't look great to me in that first series either. I know she came back from a foot injury at the end of the regular season. Still doesn't look fully healthy to me. It's very fortunate for the sun that they have Ty Harris and Heideman and Hayes, you know, to pick up the slack or even putting Allen at the two guard position and playing with DB Alyssa Thomas and Olivia Nelson Adota like just a lot of other options in the event that Carrington isn't ready to go. But, yeah, I'm not inclined to really give the liberty credit for what happened in that second quarter. Yeah, they hit some shots. You know, Sabrina took advantage of the opportunities when she was given even a sliver of space on the perimeter. But I thought the, you know, Connecticut recognized their mistakes quickly. They tightened them up. I mean, this is the fourth time in five years that. Or I'm sorry, the third time in four years that the sun have played a team in the semifinals after being swept by them in the regular season. And they've won game one in all of those series. Like, this is a team that knows how to bounce back, knows how to make adjustments. This is a new season for them. And I think I put a little too much stock in that 40 record coming into this series because the sun really don't care about what happened in those first 40 games.
- [26:26]
Zena Kaeda
No, no, no. They have short term memory, short term memories. Like what? Like a goldfish? Yes, like goldfishes. They're just like, that was cute. But this is now the semifinals. We're here, we're here. We're doing our thing. Speaking of third quarters, let's shift over to the next game that happened on Sunday. Dallas Wings vs. The Las Vegas Aces. Man, it was again Michelob Ultra Arena. They were rocking, too. They had a lot of energy in there as well. And this time it did go to the home court team. Las Vegas Aces walked away with a win, going up to 97 points. On the wings is 83. The game was actually quite close. The Wings were only down four going into the half. And then it seems like Asia Wilson went in the locker room and she found that Space Jam juice and was like, let me just do what I do. Let me just go figure it out. Because she came into that third quarter and went off 14 points, 6 of 9 shooting and shooting, shooting, layups, running the floor, doing everything that you needed to do. And she created a deficit that the Wings ultimately just could not overcome. So let's start with our girl, Asia first. We're going to talk about these WNBA awards in a second, so don't you worry. But yes, this year's defensive player of the year was doing it on both ends of the court. This was by far, I think, the Asia Wilson game of the series, no matter what happens, 34 points, 14 in the third. Again, I have to say it just for posterity's sake, everyone hears that. 14 points in the third. She had eight boards, three offensive, and that's a big deal when you think about the size of the wings. One assist, two steals. Four blocks, baby. Four blocks. She was everywhere. And she was also everywhere, including in the stands, to everyone's fear. Going into the stands, going after a loose ball, giving the arena and probably really the entire league. I'm sure Kathy Engelbert was somewhere clutching her pearls like, ma'am, chill out. Okay, Sabrina, you've had a chance to see her play all year long. She's been playing phenomenally all year long, including that 53 point game she dropped literally last month. What makes her game so effortless when you watch her?
- [28:48]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, that's. That's a tough question because it's unlike anybody I've ever seen. Like, the way she gets to her spots, the way she finishes through contact around people who are bigger, you know, physical. I. I don't know how she does it. I mean, she looks so smooth all the time. And that was one of the things that stood out to me during the regular season was, you know, I've been asking a lot of the coaches around the league just how Asia looks better than she did last year. She was already an MVP last year. What is it about her that looks different to you? And the thing that always comes up is she's just more comfortable. Like, she doesn't rush anything. You never feel like she's taking a shot that she doesn't want to take. And yeah, maybe, you know, there's a grenade at the end of the shot clock. Usually one of the Vegas guards ends up with a ball in their hands in that situation. But she is always doing what she wants to do on the court. And yeah, maybe the touch isn't there every game on the free throw jumper. Like the midi was cooking in game one. It was looking real good. But facts, she is in control of what she wants to do on the basketball court. And I think that's the most impressive thing. You know, one of the funnier moments of the season was when the Aces actually suffered their only regular season home loss against the Los Angeles Sparks. And the Aces were coming off of this stretch of five games in nine days. They had just played the Liberty twice in the previous four days. And the Sparks had a full week off because that Commissioner's cup break and Asia comes into post game and she's like, I hope they shoot like that. If they had a week off. If we have a week off, let me show you how we're going to shoot. And I was eagerly awaiting this game because they had exactly a week off. And what does Asia Wilson do but come up and make 15, added 21 shots. You mentioned the 14 points in the third quarter. She outscored the wings herself in the third quarter, 14 to 12. I mean, Kelsey Plum finally starts hitting from three point range. Five out of ten. Jackie Young, five out of six from three point range. The Aces were plus 50 from the field, plus 40 from three point range. 100% of their free throw makes. You're not beating the Aces when they shoot like this. So thankfully for the rest of the league, they don't have a week off before every single game. But I mean, if they sweep this, they're going to week off before game one of the finals. And I don't think that's out of the question, frankly, considering how they look today.
- [30:58]
Zena Kaeda
We're going to ask you about those predictions in a second because you're right, looking at the game, looking at the way they played, I was like, man, I don't see Dallas, if they continue to play like this, I don't see a window in which Dallas can even take one out of these five. And as you mentioned, it wasn't just Asia going off, as is usually the case when you think about the arsenal that the Aces have. I mean, Kelsey Plum, I love what the announcer Pam Ward had Plum run. Okay, it was a Plum run. Reigning in threes in transition left and right. I mean, she finished with 25 points. You said Jackie Young. The Google searches went up on sis. People were trying to figure out what is going on. Who is this double double machine? If you didn't know, now you should know. You know, we won't judge you. It's okay. That's what we're talking about. We're here to learn together. But her Google searches went up and it should. Her double double, 19 points, 10 boards had the people inquiring, rightfully so. Chelsea gray had added 13 points herself. I mean, the. The team was just clicking on offense so well, which we've been saying all season, but it just seemed perfect. They were making the right extra passes, they were beating defenders in transition. It was amazing. But. But the Wings were able to make them make some mistakes. But I'm also seeing that there were some mistakes that they made on their own. Right. Like, and I want a similar question of what I was talking about with the sun and the Liberty in that the sun felt sped up in the second quarter and you were saying like, that's not so much the Liberty's doing, which I would agree with you. I was just trying to figure out, like, how can they get them to speed up or make those mistakes? But there was the fact that, you know, 16 turnovers for the Aces and the Wings didn't really capitalize off of them. They only had 14 points off of those. But they did have 10 steals and they were able to keep this game pretty close until Asia became superhuman in the third. But those stats, you know, 16 turnovers, 10 steals do make, you know, they make the Aces feel a little bit more human. What weaknesses from the Aces did you see in this game that you think the Wings should be able to capitalize on for this series?
- [33:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Weaknesses in a game that they shot 53, 40, 300.
- [33:15]
Zena Kaeda
Girl, I'm trying to find something, okay? I have tried to find something.
- [33:19]
Sabrina Merchant
I think that's actually the silver lining when you look at it from the Wings perspective, is that you were in this game for the first 20 minutes. You had a lead in the first quarter. I think they may have even had a lead briefly in the second quarter. Oh, no, no. Just at the end of the first, briefly had a lead. You know, they forced the Aces to take time out because they went up 17 to 16 or something. Like there was. The pace was working for them, like you said, their traps on the perimeter, forcing some turnovers. I thought that trap that they executed at the end of the second quarter where they got Kelsey and then, you know, ended up getting a three pointer off it, didn't actually make the shot. But at the halftime buzzer, there were some things they were doing to frustrate the Aces defensively. And again, the fact that you're in this, when the Aces shot those insane numbers from the field, you would believe that, you know, they're not going to make 43% of their threes every night. Like Jackie Young's not going to go five or six from the fields or from three point range every night. So I think that is kind of your silver lining. It's at. Well, we hung with the Aces for a little bit, even though they were absolute flamethrowers. If they're just normal aces, you know, not game one with the weak off aces, maybe we have a chance. I just. The rotations for Dallas, I think need a little settling because Kehlani, Ron basically didn't get off the court. I mean, didn't get off the bench during the first round. It was a lot of Tierra McCown, you know, 35 plus minutes of Tierra McCown in the first game, not as much in the second because they blew out the dream and didn't Eater in the fourth quarter. All of a sudden, you know, they're playing the dual big lineups again with Kehlani and Tiara. Kehlani's getting a lot of minutes on her own. I wonder if they backed off of McCowan a little too quickly, like, if they need to play her more. I think she's definitely the kind of player who gets into a rhythm and does better the more time she plays consecutively. Crystal Dangerfield is getting. It's getting taken advantage of on the other end. What's interesting is Peggy Hammond actually said that Crystal Dangerfield is one of her favorite defenders in the league because she's so small. She gets away with things. She's not getting away with anything in this game.
- [35:15]
Zena Kaeda
No.
- [35:16]
Sabrina Merchant
They're looking at her and they're licking their lips. They're eyeing that matchup heavily. And I do wonder if it's time to just start Odyssey Sims. Like, I know you don't want to disrupt any player's confidence, but every time Odyssey comes into the game, good things happen. Like, you talked about the disruption. I think Sims is a big source of that. And, I mean, this is game two. You lose game two, I understand the series is not over. It's gonna be very hard to beat this team three times in a row. So I do think it's time to just get Sims in the starting lineup, pick up that aggression from the very beginning and just, I don't know, let.
- [35:50]
Zena Kaeda
It ride and pick up the poise that Odyssey Sims brings on both ends of the floor. She comes in with such a cool confidence in the way that she plays on both ends, and I think that that's really, really important. I love seeing her interaction, particularly with, like, Maddie Segrist and how she gets her going as a rookie as well.
- [36:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, but Odyssey Sims had a positive plus minus in this game, right?
- [36:10]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah. Right.
- [36:11]
Sabrina Merchant
That shouldn't happen in a game where you play 18 minutes and your team loses by 14. Right. Like, mostly it's gonna be negative, but if Odyssey Sims is winning her minutes, I think that's something to look into.
- [36:19]
Zena Kaeda
And interestingly enough, Matty Segras also was plus minus in this game. Very limited minutes, but still positive. I'm looking at this matchup, and I'm thinking back to going into this game. There were two things or advantages that folks discussed for Dallas. Number one, their size. People couldn't. We just couldn't stop talking about how big they are. We know two, their depth in comparison to the Aces. And that depth was on display. Dallas played 10 players and their bench outscored the Aces 27 4. What did not show up as beautifully or conspicuously is their size. Despite their presence inside and on the wings. The Wings lost the rebounding battle 29, 36. And they had, you know, a few less invites to the block party. Had only three versus the Aces seven. But shout out to AWA Cooyer, that block on Asia Wilson, that was nice. I know she's like, I know we lost, but, man, that's going on my reel. That's going on my reel. I am proud of that one. What. What were the Aces doing to kind of dull the effect of Dallas's size?
- [37:43]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I thought Kia Stokes had a really good defensive game. I know we mentioned Asia Wilson earlier, who was just, I mean, defensive player of the year. I don't know what words to use to describe what she was doing defensively, but the fact that Tierra McCown's first shot attempt at the game, Asia Wilson blocked, I think set a very specific tone for how things were gonna go in the paint. I thought Kia was excellent as well, you know, with her size just making the rim hard to get to for the guards. Even Sabali, I thought, was having difficulty getting to the paint, which she was doing just at will against the Atlanta Dream. So I thought you know, just their rim protection was really good, and then they were setting a second defender. So literally, like, every time McCown touched the ball, there comes a guard digging in, trying to get the steal. It was just making it very uncomfortable every time their bigs were close to the basket because you're just not going to stop McCowan and Brown from getting deep, seals getting deep, position, like that's going to happen. They're very good at establishing themselves in the post, so you have to make it challenging for them once they actually get the ball. And I think the Aces were doing a phenomenal job of that. Maybe if the Wings were able to hit some more shots on the perimeter, that would, you know, relieve some of that congestion. But I think that the Aces defensive intensity, like, their effort was just so good, and especially in the second half.
- [38:55]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah. Thinking about, you know, shots being made from the Aces. Excuse me, from the Wings, to be able to open things up, get some of that attention off of the bigs and more so on the wings. Arike Ogunbuwale and Satusabali were okay. They. They combined for 28 points. We know that's not going to be enough to beat the Aces in a best of five series. They're going to need to set their game up, you know, how do you see them doing that?
- [39:21]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I thought some of their shot decisions weren't as like efficient as you would want them to be. I mean, I think the first four out of the five shots that Sabali took were all pull up jumpers. And when you are as talented as she is with the ability to be, you know, drive to the basket pretty much at will. She's taller than whoever is going to be guarding her because, you know, Stokes and Wilson are stuck in the lane. I think she needs to attack the basket more. I just didn't like how many jumpers she and Arike were settling for. So I think they need to calibrate their decision making a little bit. You know, kick out to shooters if you're drawing two to the ball, you know, try to get into the lane a little bit more often. And understandably, like if you get into the lane, you're not necessarily able to finish over Stokes and Wilson, but the help will come. You can kick out. So I just thought that they were trying to go one on one a little bit too much for my taste. And the Wings have so much talent, like we mentioned, all of the step. They just need to trust everybody else on their team, I think a little bit more.
- [40:16]
Zena Kaeda
That's fair. That's fair. You know, I won't lie, seeing Arique go one on one, she was having some pretty moves. It's fun. It is fun watching her do her little thing to create space for herself. But yes, you're right, that's not what the game is about. They need wins. Okay. They need wins. All right. Well, I forgot to ask both you and Ben before this series started your predictions for the semifinals. So I'm gonna ask you now while it's still early.
- [40:43]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I would have said Liberty in 4. I feel worse about that now. I don't feel great about Liberty in four. I think if they're gonna win, it's gonna come in five.
- [40:52]
Zena Kaeda
Okay.
- [40:53]
Sabrina Merchant
So, you know, readjusting what happened in that series for the Aces, I would have said aces and three. I still feel good about aces and three. Okay. I think the Wings could get one. I do think in Dallas. Dallas, you know, can have a good offensive reminding game. Maybe, you know, Odyssey, Matty, like Crystal Dangerfield hit some threes and you know, you put a little pressure on the Aces. What's incredible about Las Vegas, they never get in foul trouble. Like it doesn't matter. They have this player rotation.
- [41:24]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah.
- [41:25]
Sabrina Merchant
Asia Wilson picks up two fouls in the span of 17 seconds, like, no big deal. Like, she's not going to pick up anymore.
- [41:30]
Zena Kaeda
They literally had three players, three players with fouls out of their six, and Asia Wilson had four of them. I mean, I'm looking at Kia Stokes. That is always that back line of defense when Asia goes and does her help thing or whatever it is. So looking at the fouls, Las Vegas Aces had 14 in comparison to the 13 for the wings. But you're right, no one had any outside of Asia. No one had more than three. So they are always pretty solid despite being so aggressive on the defensive end, which is really impressive, which you hope to see. But yes, Kia Stokes having one foul, doing all the things that she's doing defensively to protect the paint. Very, very impressive. And I get why Asia Wilson was saying, yeah, I gotta share my defensive.
- [42:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Player of the year with co defensive player VR.
- [42:21]
Zena Kaeda
Right. Co defensive player. Because when I go do crazy stuff, Kia got my back. All right. Kia's got my back. Well, thank you for those predictions. I'll have to get Ben's predictions and find out what he thinks before we get too deep into this. But he might be like, well, after this game, this is how I feel. My bad. I'll make sure to get this right before the finals. But thank you for walking us through those games, giving us that insight. As always, I'm excited for the games on Tuesday night. I think the Wings are going to take a little bit of pride in their size. I am Anticipating Tierra McCowan, Kehlani Brown, Natasha Howard to be a little bit more physical, probably even more so going into the second game. They know that they're capable of beating this team, so definitely see that. So the Connecticut sun will face up against the New York Liberty again at Barclays in Brooklyn at 5pm Pacific, 8pm Eastern on ESPN. Then we go back to the west coast where the Las Vegas Aces will host the Dallas Wings again for the second game in the best of five series at 7pm Pacific, 10pm Eastern. I know Eastern, folks. Y'all. Y'all gotta stay up to see these games. Man, I feel for you. Don't worry. I do. So thank you, Sabrina, but I'm not letting you go anywhere because it's time to go off the script. Before I dive into today's off the script segment, I do want to remind all of you that have listened up to this point, shout out to you. Thank you. That you know, this portion of the show is purely my opinion. It's really just my thoughts. My goal in this segment is to share with you something that I've seen in and around the world of women's basketball that I think deserves your attention. And I'll want to share my own opinion, you know, my own experience with it, in the hopes that it encourages you to go learn about it yourself and engage with it and create your own experience with it. I really just want to for you all to expand your own experience with women's basketball and use my own thoughts and my experiences to kind of be the launching pad. Don't expect you all to, you know, agree with every single thing I'm thinking or to expect or understand where I'm coming from. I know that my subjective thoughts are not rooted in objective facts, but the sharing of these thoughts is what I'm hoping will help fuel conversation and thought around women's basketball. So that's like the main gist of what often the script does when I can. And I want to bring someone in like today to get me some more insight on something that I've seen. I absolutely will. And you all get to join in that for the learning experience. So for example, today, I don't know if you guys saw, but Twitter went crazy after these defensive awards were announced for the Adobe NBA. And I was like, why are people so mad right now? There is some angst on the timeline. And so I'm bringing in Sabrina because I just want to talk about this and try and figure out why the heck is Twitter so upset about these recent WNBA award announcements. So first I want to give some context as to what has been announced. The first team and the second team were announced for all defensive players. Then also the Defensive Player of the Year award was announced. Now, from what I understand, the Defensive Player of the Year award, which went to Asia Wilson was announced early and that was one of the points of contention. And then there was another factor that when you looked at the defensive teams, the first and second team, very little guards were announced. So I'll list that list. For the first team, Asia Wilson of the Vegas Aces, Alyssa Thomas, Connecticut Sun, Brittany Sykes, Washington Mystics, Brianna Stewart for the New York Liberty and Jordan Canada for that last spot on the first team. Now, the second team was but Najelaney for the New York Liberty, Ezzy Magbegor from the Seattle Storm, Neko Guimike from the Los Angeles Sparks, Nafisa Collier from the Minnesota Lynx and Elizabeth Williams from the Chicago Sky. Now you look at that list, first team and second team, you've got Brittney Sykes, Brianna Stewart. But kind Of Jordan, Canada, Bet Najelaney that are seen as guards in this league, right? And even Breonna Stewart, I think, is a small forward space. So people look at her and look at her size and they'll say, if you're tall, you have a better chance of making this all defensive team first or second. There are people with some comments, players with some comments, coaches with some comments. Alexi Brown from the Los Angeles Sparks asked the question, you know, what do guards have to do in order to be recognized and added to this list? It seems incredibly hard to be included in this. Natasha Cloud was quite upset about it, stating that her next year is her villain year. She is tired of people playing with her name and her ability on defense. And her coach agreed. Eric Thabeau, you know, came out and said that he congratulated, of course, his player and Brittany Sykes, but he said he doesn't know 10 players that are better than Natasha Cloud and what she was able to do. So, Sabrina, what's going on? Why are the people angry?
- [47:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, so the WNBA made awards voting for all WNBA position lists last year. And this was pretty much a response to the fact that the way the W works, a lot of the offenses run through their power forwards. They have playmaking fours. You know, you have Brianna Stewart, Alyssa Thomas, Neko Gumakay, Nafisa Collier, the list goes on and on. All of these. Asia Wilson, I'm sorry, all of these great power forwards, that it was very hard to make an all WNBA team that didn't include a majority of these players. Right? Like, there were so many great forwards. How do we only put two on this team? Like, we can't even make one a center because Stewie doesn't really play center. Like, I guess this year you could consider Thomas a center. But just in response to how the league was trending, they wanted to have as many of the best players in league as possible on all WNBA teams, as opposed to being forced to include, like guards and centers. The thing is, once you extend that to all defense, which is what they did this year, this was the first year that all defense voting was positionless. What bigs do defensively is just so much easier to observe. They block shots, they protect the paint. You know, the paint is what every coach would say is the most valuable area of real estate on the court, right? So the bigs are the ones who are most obviously doing the work of defending the paint. And thus it's easier to reward them defensively. And then frankly, like just the way you build a roster, you can't really have a guard who can't score. Right. It's gotta be, you know, you're. When you're building a team, guards are naturally more offensively productive and your bigs like you can handle the fact if they're not the ones creating but they have to be able to defend. And it's just this weird imbalance of we think of front court players as more defensive and back court players as more offensive. And so when you're voting, you're naturally going to be inclined to think of frontcourt players when you're picking all defense. So you get in the situation where like Benija Laney, she starts at four for the New York Liberty and she was the smallest player on the second team, all defense. Right. Granted she guards a lot of point guards, you know, like they put her on Chelsea Gray when they play the Aces. Like I think it's a reasonable inclusion if you're going to pick a guard because of who she defends. But yeah, that's a lot of bigs. Nafisa, Collier, Nakaguma, Kazi, McGregor, all power forwards. Elizabeth Williams, center. Like that's. You're not defending anybody with that five player lineup to be clear. Right. Like they're going to be gaps even though they're all individually great defenders. So personally I would think that you would want to keep all defense and all W for that matter to be positions just because every position on the court is asked to fulfill a different role and comparing them against each other I think is naturally a challenging task and I think it's unfair based on their roles. When I voted because I was one of the media voters this year, I tried to keep two guards on both my teams just because there are different skills that guards have to do. They go navigate screens, they have to provide pressure at the point of attack. We've seen what guards have been able to do defensively to the New York Liberty in the last two series. What they've been able to do to the Las Vegas guards, you know, what Dallas was able to do yesterday. So I wanted to reward every type of defensive skill set that's on display. I understand why it didn't happen. Natasha Cloud being left off is obviously the most glaring omission, which is why, you know, Eric Thibault got in. Spoiler alert. We have another anonymous poll coming out at the Athletic very soon based on what general managers think about situations around the league and they have thoughts about who the best defenders are. And let me tell you, it's not just bigs, it's Definitely not just Bigs. So I think that's where a lot of the confusion or a lot of the dissension comes from. What I will push back on is this narrative that, oh, players need to vote on these awards because we see what happens when players vote for All Stars. Some wild, wild things happen when players vote.
- [51:31]
Zena Kaeda
And I'm okay with, I'm okay with.
- [51:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Coaches voting because, you know, you just say you can't vote for your own player, and then I think they have a better understanding of who is a tougher defender than anybody else in the league. So I'm okay with, you know, giving that up for coaches to vote on. I will push back on the idea that players are somehow better adjudicators of this because we have evidence that they're not. So, yes, I understand it sucks that Natasha Cloud is not all defense. I think her body of work would prove that she is as good of a defender as anybody in the league, especially among perimeter players. I'm glad that Sykes got the recognition. You know, unfortunately, Washington just didn't have a good enough defense this year to warrant two players on all defense, I think. But, you know, I'm, I'm going to pump the brakes a little here, maybe get coaches involved, but that's as far as I'm willing to go with all defense.
- [52:19]
Zena Kaeda
That's fair. I want to go back to your point about, you know, looking at these two teams and the potential gaps of having them positionless and having majority post players. I'm looking at that first team and I said this at the top, of course. Yes, Brianna Stewart is a forward. She's not a guard, but she does guard things. And a lot of people look at her as a big guard, like a small forward and the way that she plays, particularly offense. But I'm looking at this and I'm like, Asia Wilson, Alyssa Thomas, front court. Brittney Sykes, Jordan Canada, Brianna Stewart, back court. Is that a stretch to look at that way?
- [53:00]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think Stewie is very malleable. Right. But like, that's, that's a five player unit that can guard anything you put at them, right? Yeah. They have the defensive skills between all five of them in terms of, you know, Jordan Canada just being ridiculously annoying at the point of attack. Same with Brittany Sykes. Right. Like, they can get through screens, they can cover all kinds of guards, they can cover all kinds of isolation players. You know, you got the room protection with Stewie in Asia, especially Asia. So I think, like, collectively that is a real lineup that you could play on. A basketball court, whereas the second one is just not. And again, it's not supposed to be because it's positionless. But it kind of sucks that it's that way.
- [53:35]
Zena Kaeda
Sure. Yeah. I just want to make sure. I was thinking about that first team properly and the way that they would lay out. So that's the argument around. You know, I get that. I get why there's a little bit of pushback around that all defensive team. And I definitely understand Natasha Cloud's plight because she was amazing this year. Let's move on to defensive player of the year. This award was announced September 23rd, and this was supposed to be announced October 5th. Why. Why was there so much time? Why did they announce it so early?
- [54:11]
Sabrina Merchant
That is a great question. So for transparency, the WNBA sends out its ballot to all of the voters of, you know, vote on all defense, all w. Most improved, yada, yada, yada. And this is the schedule of when we are going to announce the awards. It is subject to change. The WNBA PR director did send a message to the people who voted that, hey, heads up, we're going to be moving up defensive player of the Year, you know, a day before it happened. So, you know, the subject to change applied and it was notified.
- [54:42]
Zena Kaeda
Okay.
- [54:43]
Sabrina Merchant
Of course, not everybody who watches the WNBA was on that message thread.
- [54:48]
Zena Kaeda
Right.
- [54:49]
Sabrina Merchant
And I don't really know why you would want to wait until October 5th, frankly, to announce this award, because that is. That's between the semifinals and WNBA finals. I mean, maybe it's something to, like, fill in the gap. My conspiracy theory is that you have to announce MVP last. Right. That is the most important award. And ideally, you want to be in a position where the player gets to accept the award in front of their fans. And, you know, I'm putting on a little tinfoil hat here. If you think that the player who won MVP is not going to have that many home games left, maybe you got to push up the cycle a little bit. That's where I like it.
- [55:29]
Zena Kaeda
You know what you're. You know what you're giving me right now? That Brian Windhorse meme where he's kind of like pointing and he's like, why would the. I don't know what the situation was that he was referencing, but I just.
- [55:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Know that why would they do that?
- [55:43]
Zena Kaeda
Why would they do that? And, like, points, like. And everyone's like. I just. I vividly remember everyone being like, what are you talking about? But I do know what you're talking about, Sabrina. That's interesting. You can't see me, but I'm twiddling my fingers right now. Very interesting. Okay, gotcha. Okay, so we'll see. Remember, MVP is supposed to be announced in October. It's also, you know, there's three favorites right now. You're looking at Brianna Stewart, Asia Wilson, Alyssa Thomas. All three still active in the playoffs. Two of the three about to knock one of the other off. So, yeah, things are spicing up for October. Okay, thank you for that context and that insight and for letting us know that there was a memo that went out. So in case all of you all were worried as to why the WNBA didn't give you a heads up, it's okay. They let some people know. They just didn't let you know. But now we do know. Shout out to Sabrina. Well, anywho, that is all for today. I had a great time talking with you, Sabrina. I'm excited for these playoffs to continue, mainly because I think these series have been really, really well matched. Like the first series, first round was just kind of like, uh, okay, just like you said, quarterfinals were okay, but that semifinals matchup, these are fun. Thank you all again for joining us. Make sure to tune in Tuesday night on ESPN for game two of the semifinals. We'll be back again with another show this week talking more women's basketball. Make sure to follow subscribe wherever you get your podcast so you don't miss anything. But for now, for the athletic, I'm Zena Kada encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning, and keep loving the game. Until next time.
- [57:38]
Sabrina Merchant
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a.
- [57:41]
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- [57:44]
Sabrina Merchant
But you know what isn't hard to accept?
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Sabrina Merchant
You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your.
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- [58:04]
Zena Kaeda
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- [58:35]
Sabrina Merchant
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [58:43]
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Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now.
- [58:48]
Zena Kaeda
And I'm still talking to all kinds.
- [58:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Of people in my garage every week.
- [58:52]
Zena Kaeda
Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande.
- [58:56]
Sabrina Merchant
She just looks at me. Cause she's always going, like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.
- [59:05]
Zena Kaeda
Are you afraid of it? Of death?
- [59:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I don't know.
- [59:08]
Zena Kaeda
I think about it all the time. How are we here already?
- [59:10]
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- [59:13]
Sabrina Merchant
A week on your favorite podcast app.
- [59:15]
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Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.
- [59:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.