← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Injury Impacts, Star Power + Special Whistles: our WNBA mailbag!
00:48:26
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- [00:00]
Darina
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- [01:20]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [01:21]
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- [02:16]
Zena Keda
Hello, everyone, and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Keda.
- [02:20]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [02:21]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [02:23]
Zena Keda
And today on the show, we are opening up our mailbag. There's nothing better than hearing from you guys, our listeners. So thank you for tuning in each week and for sending us your burning questions. We're excited to dig in. So let's get to it. Now, we know at the top of everyone's minds has been these injuries, these terrible injuries that has completely ridden the WNBA season into kind of like a different landscape. Um, we've seen some teams be hampered by them. We've seen some teams not have them. And so, you know, be able to kind of climb the ranks. So it's no surprise. We received a number of questions about injuries and how teams respond. Okay, Sabrina Claire wrote in to ask. There's been a ton of discussion about the salary cap this year with the upcoming cba. My question is, how does the salary cap work with respect to hardship injury contracts? For example, the Fever had to sign a number of players due to injury. It's actually, I mean, it could be a record, the amount of hardships they've had to pass out this year. Do those contracts have to also stay under the salary cap or is there a special provision for those unexpected costs to a team?
- [03:34]
Sabrina Merchant
So there are a couple of emergency hardship provisions that do not affect the salary cap. Like if you fall below 10 active players, if you only have nine available players, you can sign an emergency roster hardship. And that does not have to fall underneath the salary cap. If you have two players who are on long term injuries, like both, I think the designation is like they've all, they both have to miss at least three or four games. But then you can sign a roster hardship to, you know, replace those two long term injuries. And again, that does not have to fit within the salary cap. The only issue there is that when you make a trade, you have to end the trade below the salary cap. So if you've been adding a bunch of hardships and piling up salary above the cap and you want to make a trade mid season, then all of a sudden you're going to have to drop a player or make some other adjustments so that the trade ends legally below the salary cap. We saw a situation like this with Las Vegas where in the middle of the season they make this trade to acquire Alyssa Smith. They had gone above the cap because of hardship contracts and then end up having to drop Tiffany Mitchell and Elizabeth Ketley mid season to make that trade cap legal.
- [04:39]
Zena Keda
And for clarity, a player that's coming in on a hardship, their cost is dependent upon their veteranship, like how many years they've played.
- [04:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So you'll see these terms called like rest of season hardship contracts. And that's basically just like a veteran minimum, but like a certain percentage of it. It's not a full veteran minimum. It's a little bit less because it's a hardship contract. But yeah, that's depending on like how many years of service. Like there's a certain minimum contract value for 0 to 2 and then 3 plus boom.
- [05:06]
Zena Keda
Okay, that makes sense. Ben. Along similar lines, Maddie wrote in to ask, why haven't the libert been signing hardship players during this period of injuries. Nine active players isn't ideal and multiple games with just eight players feels avoidable. Maddie, I think I, I would agree with you on this one, but Ben, what's the answer here?
- [05:26]
Ben Pickman
Well, to the avoidable part, Xena, I think a lot of teams are hoping that going forward there are either more roster spots and, or kind of two way esque players that can kind of be called in on late notice. And that I think gets to the heart of why from what I understand, the Liberty have not made as many moves is because a lot of these kind of injuries that they've had have been sudden downgrades or day of downgrades and that puts your team at risk or makes it more difficult rather to just sign a player if you're not exactly sure what your roster is going to look like until lunchtime on the day of a game. So there was a couple weeks ago in Minneapolis for instance, where like it was up in the air about who was going to play, who was not going to play. And so yeah, I think in that kind of instance you could have in theory applied for an emergency medical hardship, but that would have been a player coming in for just one game on the day of a game. Right. And so that is a very difficult situation for a player to just come in on. And, and I think one of the things we're, I don't know, undervaluing, underrating here is how appealing that actually might be for a player. Right. Like do players really want to come in for just one day and then have that be their one day on a team and then have to wait a certain amount of time before potentially being back on a team? Or would you rather wait it out a little bit and sign a seven day hardship contract or a rest of season contract? We've seen a lot of other players, you know, who have taken part in this 3xba league. The grace Burger, Serena Sundell, Matty Scott, they've eventually gotten opportunities with teams just by kind of waiting it out and then signing separate deals versus signing the like one day in and out contract which might not actually be that beneficial for either side. So I think, you know, one executive put it this way, like the hardship rules are pretty complicated. I think a lot of people, there's like a lot of provisions about how much time needs to be missed, how many players need to miss and how many games need to be missed. Like there's just a lot that goes into it. It's not as simple as just you fall Under a number and suddenly like a player magically appears on your roster.
- [07:29]
Zena Keda
Yeah, you've laid that out perfectly because, you know, thinking about the Valkyries, they were in a similar situation in terms of the injuries and things of that sort. And a lot of folks had questions about like, why didn't you make a move at the trade deadline, right. To try and fill in some of these spots. And ahem. And Yana made a point that I think applies exactly the way you're saying, Ben, from the team perspective, is it worth bringing someone in for a day? Right. And you're, you're working on your chemistry, you're trying to make sure that you've got some consistency across your roster. And if you're talking about the Liberty, you're downgrading someone on day of that means they could be back in practice the next day, they could be right back into this thing. And now you've inserted one person for one game. It kind of jumbles things up for the team perspective. And then like you mentioned, for the player, I can't imagine, especially if I'm an international player, you're not putting me on a 13 hour flight to come play for a game and then be like, we're good, actually, they're going to be able to, you know, play on that ankle the next game. So very, very good points laid out on both sides there. And Ben, I want to continue on this topic of injury because Jennifer W. Wrote in asking, is there any truth to Indy hiding the extent of Caitlyn's injury in order to not impact ticket sales or viewership? Spicy.
- [08:43]
Ben Pickman
A little conspiratorial question here, Xena.
- [08:45]
Zena Keda
I see. Right, right, right.
- [08:46]
Ben Pickman
I guess what I would say to this is I'm gonna broaden it to a league wide topic that I think Sabrina has written about and I know we have certainly talked about in the last few weeks. And that is a. I was a recent trend. Maybe it's this season, maybe it's the past couple. I don't know if Sabrina has a thought on that of teams being a little bit more vague when actually sharing the prognoses, the injury prognoses of their players. So we saw that recently in the case of Brianna Stewart, for instance, initially the Liberty were pretty mum about like what the actual leg injury she was dealing with was. We saw that in the case of the Golden State Valkyries and with Kayla Thornton. Right. Initially, I mean, they still haven't come out and said, was it an ACL injury, was it a hamstring injury, was it a groin injury? Did it require, you know, an extensive surgery? How did it happen? Like, there are still questions there that they have not been public about. We've seen it with other teams earlier in the season as well. Like, there is a little bit of a. I don't know if it's game of chicken, but there's a little bit of gamesmanship that is going on right now between teams about how much or how little they want to display and relay. To me, I think any kind of question about what the Fever are doing or are not doing as it relates to Caitlin Clark is more or would be more for competitive balance purposes than are they trying to keep viewership high in the present and in the playoffs. I don't know what you think, Sabrina.
- [10:12]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, to me, it sort of dates back to the 2023 WNBA Finals when Chelsea Gray and Kia Stokes get hurt in Game three. And they are so mum about the status of Chelsea Rae to the point where it's like, if the series gets back to Las Vegas For Game 5, will Chelsea Gray become available? And that, in hindsight, was just an insane thing to posit because Chelsea Gray ends up missing, like, the first, what, dozen games of the next season with this injury. So to think that she could have been available for that. And we later learned that she, you know, broke a bone in her foot and obviously would not have been available to play had that series extended beyond the four games in New York. So I think you're seeing, just like you said, more and more of this gamesmanship, whether it's to gain a competitive advantage or just protect the players as they, you know, go through this process of, like, coming to terms with her injury. I know, I mean, this isn't a WNBA thing, but I think about in the NCAA when Elizabeth Kitley tore her acl, you know, at the end of the regular season a couple years ago and Virginia Tech didn't announce it until two weeks later. And she said, because that was, you know, the program trying to protect her as she, again, like, emotionally came to terms with tearing her acl. Also has something to do with seating for the Instantly tournament, but that's a different question from the wnba. So I think that there's just a lot of reasons why a team might just, you know, want to protect the privacy of their players or just as this is going through. But the WNBA is like, engaged in a lot of gambling partnerships and this information is very relevant to bettors, however you feel about that. Like, this is a connection that, you know, the WNBA has with these gambling entities. And, you know, I can imagine that they are not super happy about the lack of transparency and, you know, wanting to know when players are gonna be available and how to set lines and things of that nature.
- [11:51]
Zena Keda
Sabrina, we have literally talked about this, and, you know, it is of my opinion that until the bettors are clamoring for this information, it probably will not be streamlined. And for what it's worth, this is like, I don't know why Indy, why any of these teams? There's various reasons that both you guys just laid out. But for what it's worth, it would be such a godsend if we could just get one central location for all of the injuries and updates in the wnba. Like, someone. Like, it can't be that we're going on the WNBA website and we're looking for injuries and it's not posted because it didn't pass the 2pm deadline yet or it's not been submitted by a team yet. And then you go on Rotowire and they figured out something from the. From, you know, X or social media somehow, and they're posting something that's not available on the WNBA website. It's like, it's 2025. Let's figure this out. Let's make this one central location that people can confidently rely on in terms of what's going on with my particular team, a particular player I care about with injuries. Because it can be really kind of, I don't know, disorienting to try and figure out what's going on with the player through their social media handles.
- [13:04]
Ben Pickman
It's funny you say that because I think. And maybe Sabrina has the same feeling too. Like, I get in the habit sometimes of when I check my email and we get game notes or we get emails from teams because we're on the mailing list, and they will say, you know, a player is questionable. And then you have to start to think to yourself, okay, well, two days ago, were they doubtful, Were they out? Is this a status change? Like, where did this come from? We're doing that, like, mental and physical, like checking our notes, checking old emails ourselves in that moment. And like, we are getting all this information and, and have it at our hands and. And it's tough for us to kind of juggle and manage. And then there are other policies. Well, if a player is upgraded, do they have to talk to the media? That is another part of this. Right? Like, I remember when Cameron Brink was finally upgraded. I guess she was upgraded to questionable. She was here in New York City and the Sparks and And myself and a few other reporters then started to talk to her because her status had changed and she was questionable. And so she had to talk to media. If we put in a request versus if she was just out, then she wouldn't have had to have chat it with the media. Like, that's another component about classifications and how a player is listed. Do you want to actually make them available? There's just a lot that goes into all of this.
- [14:15]
Zena Keda
And I want to be fair to the media teams. Like, there's times where they don't even know until the game is starting that something's going on.
- [14:23]
Sabrina Merchant
Right?
- [14:23]
Zena Keda
Like the situation just happened at the Valkyries a few games ago where Touchy Zandelicini and Tip Hayes both warmed up. Both were projected to be in the starting lineup. And literally, I mean, maybe as the starting lineups are about to be announced, that is when they find out that both of them are out for that game. Even Kate Martin mentioned learning that she was gonna be starting in the place of Chetti Zanellissini. Like when they were announcing names like this happens, you know, where something may go wrong in warmups or whatever. So I don't wanna put it fully on these media teams or just in general in the league. It is hard to keep that information current sometimes when there are late scratches. But overall, it would be nice to have some sort of a consistent line of information that we could all depend on. Okay, let's keep it going and turn our attention to something somewhat related that's actually really deeply impacted by injuries, and that is league depth and expansion. And as we make this push towards the playoffs, which, by the way, is a sponsored thing now, there's like a postseason Push presented by DraftKings by the WNBA apparently just saw this posted. But the last two weeks for the end of the season, we know depth is huge, and it is a factor of, you know, if there were more teams and there were more roster spots, you know, maybe we wouldn't be having teams with only eight and nine active players. But Sabrina, from our YouTube onwards, asks, given how many rookies and international players are not only making rosters, but also contributing real minutes this year? Yes, they are. Does it undercut the argument that the league lacks the depth to sustain expansion?
- [16:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think we're at 44 individual players who have debuted in the WNBA this year. So that's. That's a lot of rookies. Uh, I think we're at 44. This might be a little dated, but as of Wednesday night, when Serena Sundel debuted For the Wings, I think that became number 44. So it could, could have changed by the time this airs. But yeah, a lot, a lot of rookies have made their debut in the wnba and I am hesitant to suggest that people who are making impactful minutes in the dog days of August would be able to make impactful minutes over the course of the entire regular season because this is just a different, different time of the year where a lot of teams have already, you know, thrown in the towel on the regular season and they're putting out lineups that you wouldn't necessarily put out if you were trying to compete for a playoff spot at earlier parts of the season. But I do think that as the league becomes more attractive to international players, as the player experience improves and the compensation improves, international players are more interested in wanting to come to the wnba, which has not always been the case, right? It was always like be very wary of drafting an international player because you don't know when they're actually going to be available to play in the WNBA because of all their other commitments. So I think that's, that's part of it, right? The league becoming a better home for international players makes this more attractive destination and you know, increases the player pool. I still think that the problem with like lots and lots of more teams is that there's like a finite number of stars, right? Like there's only so many Asia Wilsons and Nafissa Colliers and Brianna Stewart's of the world, right? And that is so much fun to me to see like three potential Finals MVPs all conglomerate on the same team, which like incidentally the New York Liberty have, right? They have an MME Smith and Jonquil Jones and Brianna Stewart. But you know, the days of having like four Olympians, you know, on both sides, I think that goes down the wayside when you have more and more expansion. So I do agree that there are capable players of fulfilling WNBA roles. I think to me the talent issue with expansion is just how many all star stars are you going to have to fill all of those spots? Because I think that number is not going to necessarily increase with all of the extra talent coming into wnba.
- [18:04]
Ben Pickman
I do think that some players will inevitably emerge, right? We have seen that this year the kind of Veronica Burton's and Kayla Thornton's are being two prime examples. Like had Veronica Burton still been on Connecticut and Maybe she's playing 16 minutes a game. Does she have a all W level season? Probably not. History would say probably not. But I totally agree with you, Sabrina and The, the thinning is going to be felt when there's a lack of star power and suddenly a player who might be, you know, cast right now as your fifth best player has to be your second or third best player and the quality of the product might depreciate as a result. I do think it will be interesting to watch going forward and I know this is something that like we'll definitely be tracking over the next year. And over the next few years is when teams look to backfill or fill out their rosters or what kinds of players do they look to sign? Do they look to sign the kinds of players that Phoenix has filled their roster out with this year? And Sabrina wrote about this on the site last week, primarily post college, you know, multiple years removed experienced pros who might be WNBA rookies but are again professionals on the WNBA and the women's basketball landscape for a few years. Do more of those players get opportunities and does the product change a result? Or do teams say like we're just going to look at your college player who might not have been drafted or might not have been getting an opportunity because we're just going to fully look towards development and in the future. And if that is the case, the latter scenario, I do think that is a place where, you know, the depth and the, the youth of teams might reveal itself and the product might get a little worse because inevitably you're going from having a player who could be their fourth best player on a college team who's suddenly getting drafted and getting thrown into real minutes, whereas right now they would go to Europe in the winter and really get the opportunity to develop and they wouldn't be on a WNBA team. So I think, you know, that is kind of the push and pull that I know we're tracking for years to come.
- [20:01]
Zena Keda
What's really interesting about all of this is the current petri disk that's being created right now that Sabrina alluded to in terms of international players are starting to see the American space, WNBA as a great place to play. And if you talk to international players and you talk about, you know, visibility and representation and all the above, when the American players would go play in their leagues and play on their teams, they talk about them raising the level of play, they talk about them becoming better players because they had this exposure. And so when you think about more international players being in this mix and then going back to their respective programs, their respective countries, et cetera, and having an elevated level of play because they were in the wnba, having more of those players Going back to Europe and being, you know, bringing that style of play, et cetera, into the mix. It's like there's this interesting experiment that's going to happen in terms of will the international game rise and how quickly we know it's rising because we saw the Olympics, we see the world catching up with the US on both the men and women's side of basketball. But now it's like, will this be expedited because there are more international players coming in?
- [21:08]
Ben Pickman
But I do think this is like a really interesting window in time, in particular because so many of the WNBA's best players in this moment have international experience. So when you think about someone like Brianna Stewart or Nafisa Collier, those players have played overseas in the past. What will be very interesting is this current generation of incoming WNBA stars. The Caitlin Clarks, the Paige Beckers, the Angel Reese's. If those players elect not to go overseas, then does the actual product of the international leagues lessen a little bit because some of the WNBA's best, you know, because of unrivaled or because of changing financial situations in the wnba, do that crop of players no longer go overseas and do the international leagues see their qualities lessen? And so then those players are not as prepared to enter the wnba. I certainly agree with you that right now we are in a moment in which there are a lot of capable players from Europe who have played alongside some of the WNBA's best players for years and years who are coming over and can make an impact. The question is, in five years time when these dynamic, if these dynamics continue to change and less and fewer Americans, top Americans go over, do those leagues get worse? And as a result, when those international players might come to America, are they not as prepared to make an impact on the wnba? I mean, these are like all these big think pieces that again, these are the things we're thinking about too.
- [22:34]
Zena Keda
And the only thing I have like to add on to that is now it's a matter of like, you're right, the pages of the world, the angels of the world, the Caitlyns of the world, they don't have to go overseas to get that development, to get that training, to get extra money. They don't need any of it overseas to be able to get that. They can get that stateside. And now it's a matter of like, okay, are they now interchanged? Are they changed with other young stars? Like I imagine I'm, let's be real, I'm a little French based here, a little biased with the France like the French rookies. But I'm looking and I'm seeing Dominic Malanga has had this, like crazy growth spurt in this. In the span of this season that I don't know if she would have had if she took an extra year to play in Europe. But she's had a growth spurt playing alongside the Necco Grima kids of the world and Schuyler Diggins of the world and these incredible talents here in the American space. She's now going to take that and go back to France and play in, you know, her respective league, play for her country, et cetera. And it's like, okay, maybe you don't need these young American players from the college system. Maybe you just kind of have like a. What do they call it when doctors, like people go to school overseas to go become doctors and then they come back. Like a brain. What is it called? Sabrina helping brain drain. Brain drain instead. But it's like almost like a talent drain, like a basketball drain, where it's like you leave, go get your education, your basketball education in America. You learn everything you can from the wnba. You come back and now you are the. The quote unquote, American talent from before. Instead, you're just homegrown talent that came to the States earlier, sooner and came back and, you know, elevated level of play.
- [24:13]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, we're seeing those at like so many levels because like now players can go who have played professionally and, you know, Europe can play in college. Right, because of nil rules and such, you know, so they get that same sort of American education, maybe not at the WNBA level, but at the NCAA level. And that also allows them to bring it back to, you know, their home countries.
- [24:32]
Zena Keda
Yeah, see you guys see how Sabrina's brain just helps mine. I was like, there is a word for this and I know Sabrina knows it. Thank you.
- [24:39]
Ben Pickman
When you have a brain drain, Sabrina.
- [24:41]
Zena Keda
Is there to pick you up, quite literally. There we go. All right, let's keep it moving. And what was it gonna say on the topic of rookies? Because this question was inspired by a recent episode about rookie of the year. And Sabrina, I'm gonna turn to you. Anna huffhive D that goes by Nyokifc on Blue Sky Asked listening to the new no offseason episode, Sabrina's point about the depth in terms of the league readiness of this rookie class. And even in years past, how do you think accessibility to mass amounts of film and use of advanced analytics has changed how rookies come into the league?
- [25:19]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think there are just so many More opportunities available for young players to grow their games and develop their games. That didn't exist, you know, 10, even, like a generation ago. I think the number one thing is people grow up watching the wnba. It's not so much like individual, like, statistical, you know, platforms that they're working with. It's just a lot of the players, you know, in previous generation, either they couldn't watch WNBA because it didn't exist, or it just wasn't available, you know, to watch on television. But watching the league that you were attempting to join was just such a big part of being able for that, being able to be ready for that style of play. Right. Like, we're like five years removed from players saying that they would talk to their rookies and they didn't know who they were playing on a given night because they just never watched the league. And again, that is not far removed from that situation. But now you're in a point where if you're Kiki Ira fan and you enter the league, you have watched the Asia Wilsons and the Alyssa Thomases of the world, and you know how their games look and how to play against them and what the style of play looks like. And I think that's just an enormous part of it, is the visibility of the wnba, the accessibility of the wnba, making these players familiar and comfortable with what the league is going to look like. And then I also think, just like personal training is a big part of it, like, these individual players are so much more skilled than they were. The types of moves that they're able to perform, like on the basketball court. We talked about this with Paige, right? Just her ins and outs and the way she can manipulate her handle. We can talk more about how that affects overall team basketball, but I think just individual skill levels are a lot higher because of that specialization of training that players are seeing when they're younger.
- [26:48]
Zena Keda
Yeah, people are starting to call it the trainer furcation of the young age. I will never forget Gene Oreyama being on our podcast with Chantel and Sabrina talking about, you know, kids coming in, being able to dribble tennis balls and trying to tell him, you know, how something should work, because they can do that so well. But I think that there is something to be said about the fact that the game is more accessible. It was fascinating to hear Nafeesa Collier in Sue Bird's podcast, Bird's Eye View, say that she didn't even really know, like, how much of a thing the WNBA All Star Game was because she didn't watch like it. But it wasn't something that was a big thing. And now you hear Kiki Areafen talk about, you know, watching Asia Wilson and it's a completely different thing. And that's just a few years removed, folks. That's not like decades apart. So definitely very cool to be able to see how that has impacted the way these rookies are coming in. Don't go anywhere. We got some more questions.
- [27:51]
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- [28:17]
Zena Keda
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- [28:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.
- [28:21]
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Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
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- [29:33]
Zena Keda
All right, guys, let's jump into some team specific questions. And Ben, I'm going to turn to you and ask you something about the Minnesota Links. So Nash wrote in to ask. Hi team. I'm a huge fan writing on behalf of my Minnesota Lynx. Among the four of fee, Courtney, K Mac and Dijonay. So Nafeesa Collier, Courtney Williams, Kayla McBride and Dijonay Carrington. How many do you think return to Minnesota in free agency? And who is more likely between K Mac and Dijonay?
- [30:05]
Ben Pickman
I would say to the latter question, I still think the answer is Kayla McBride. I know that Dijonay Carrington is five or six years younger than Kmac, but it is hard to imagine this point in KMAX career that the Lynx would say like we're going to go a different direction. I mean KMAX career has been so fascinating. She's been in the league more than a decade and two of her best seasons have been these past two years. Like she had made all star teams before, but it had been a couple years before the 2024 season since her prior last all star appearance. And I think that is what has made this kind of last two years of play so impressive. And she is very much in the conversation for an all WNBA spot. I know that Sabrina has her very much in that conversation. She was very much, you know, in the all star conversation even before she got the nod this year. And so it is hard to see Minnesota saying we're gonna separate KMAC and Fee when they are making win now decisions. Right. The Dijonay Carrington trade signals a win now, a desire to win now. And it is the kind of trade frankly that I think they would hope to resign her. But really it is the kind of trade you make as a half year rental kind of Allah a baseball team trading for a closer at the deadline, hoping to bolster their bullpen for the end of the season in the playoff run. Like Dijonay Carrington serves that role on this Minnesota links team. Minnesota parted with future assets Diamond Miller who had been under contract as well as a future, I want to say second round pick to get Carrington. And so we will see what happens and how that trade nets out. A lot of it will be can they win or not? Like that is why they made the trade. I think you make that trade, sure. Dijonay has long term value. She absolutely does and has proven to be a developing player and can help a team win in a lot of ways. And but like they want to win now which is why they made the trade. If you're Dijonay also like presumably you want to play a bigger role. Like she goes to Dallas where she had a bigger role on paper at first it didn't work out in Dallas and if she sticks around in Minnesota and the roster remains the way it does, like what is her role or the ceiling of her role on this team. So yeah, I think it's more likely you have have McBride, Courtney and K Mac back and then Carrington, we'll see what happens there.
- [32:22]
Sabrina Merchant
And I think part of the decision with Minnesota is that there's just so much off season Uncertainty as a whole with the wnba.
- [32:28]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [32:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, we're entering a new collective bargaining agreement with a new salary structure, new individual player salaries. You know, you think about the rules of this current agreement. Yeah, they could probably keep all of them. You know, you fit Dijonay Carrington and Carly Samuelson salary slot and La de Da. Like, there comes your team back for 2026. But. But we just. There's so many things we don't know about 2026. Right. Like, we don't know what the team salary cap is going to be. We don't know what individual maxes are going to be. Are they're going to be individual maxes.
- [32:51]
Zena Keda
Right.
- [32:52]
Sabrina Merchant
And so all of that affects what players you're able to keep. I mean, we haven't even mentioned Alanna Smith and Jessica Shepard in this conversation, who are probably big priorities for Minnesota to want to retain as well. There's an expansion draft be happening. Will they be able to protect all of these players to even come back to Minnesota next year? You know, with those four players and Atisha Heideman and the centers, you know, coming into play, like, presumably one of those players will have to be left unprotected. And that seems like a prime player for Toronto or Portland to scoop up in an expansion draft. So with all of these rules just unknown, it's very hard to make projections about, again, who is going to want to stay in Minnesota, who is going to be able to stay in Minnesota, what the Lynx can do with that salary cap configuration. So as much as I appreciate the premise of the question and how Minnesota can retain its roster going forward, it's just so hard to make these kinds of conjectures because we are so in the dark about what 2026 is going to look like.
- [33:43]
Zena Keda
And it's gonna be really interesting with the Lynx, especially because of the win now aspect, but also like the loyalty aspect. We haven't talked about Bridget Carlton and thinking of what she did to build this team up and like, you leave her unprotected potentially next year, I mean.
- [33:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Toronto is scooping up that right away. Canadian.
- [34:00]
Zena Keda
Right away.
- [34:00]
Sabrina Merchant
I was gonna say, I was like.
- [34:02]
Zena Keda
Kato's gonna be like, yes, number one.
- [34:03]
Sabrina Merchant
Pick in the expansion draft.
- [34:05]
Zena Keda
There you go. Exactly. When you said that, I was like. When you talked about Canada, I was like, bridget Carlton is going to be gone if they don't protect her. So anyways, well, let's keep it going. Talking about teams, this one, this one hurts my heart. Okay. It's coming with Brendan from Brendan, and Brendan wrote how hopeless Are the sky. Are the sky doomed to be as depressing as every other Chicago sports team, or is this just a bad year? If the latter, how can they turn things around? And I had to do that voice because. Come on, Brendan. Brendan wrote in with such misery around this question. You know, I'm gonna go with Ben. Ben, let me know what's going on. Are the sky hopeless? I don't feel like it, but damn.
- [34:57]
Ben Pickman
I mean, hopeless might be a little bit of a strong word, but is the situation as optimistic or as glow as some other situations? I think the answer to that is also no, Xena. I mean, I think for me, the question that the sky are going to have to figure out this off season, the big principal question is, do you believe that Angel Reese and Camila Cardoso can play together going forward? And if the answer to that is yes, then you have to kind of act with conviction and build your roster accordingly. I mean, this year, the two of them, when they share the floor together, -11.6 net rating, when the two of them are on the floor together, you take just Angel, Reese's on off. You know, she is a positive 3.1 net rating when it is her on the court. And Camilla also has a slightly positive net rating when it is just her in terms of an on off split, smaller than Reese's impact. I mean, to me, I still think you kind of want to build around angel and have her be the player that is your franchise centerpiece and you construct everything that you want to do going forward around her. And you potentially look to move Camilla and recoup some draft capital, young players, some shooting, figure out the rest of your roster accordingly because I don't know if those players can currently play together. I think that is the big open question. I mean, clearly Jeff Pagliaka, the GM of the Chicago sky, this past offseason, tried to flood their roster with veterans to, you know, show that Chicago was both an appealing place and a competitive place to play. And that if you put good veterans around recent Cardozo, then, like, you can have this foundation. I mean, think about the moves they made for Beck Allen and Kia Nurse, Ariel Atkins, just as examples, Elizabeth Williams bringing her back. But I don't know. I guess based on their record, I don't know if that strategy has actually been as fruitful as folks had hoped. And so, yeah, what do you do? That is the big question here, Ben.
- [36:56]
Zena Keda
It was the wrong flood. It was the wrong flood. They did not need a flood of veterans. They needed a flood of shooters. If you're going to have that much presence inside. You need something to move the defense outwards. Well, what did you find?
- [37:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Right, they signed Kia Nurse. They signed, they got Rebecca Allen. You know, you bring back Mikaela, anyone, you've got Rachel Banham. Like, these are all players who have a pedigree of shooting. So I understand the thought process and you know, I, I hate to be in the camp of like. And they bring in Ariel Atkins, right. Like another good shooter. Right. So they, they brought in a lot of players who theoretically fit around what they were trying to do with Camila Cardoso and Angel Reese. Again, I am obviously biase. I thought Chicago was going to be good and I was very, very wrong. But I don't want to be at the camp of defending what this guy done because clearly it has gone horribly. But you've got a practice facility coming in that's supposed to be ready for the start of 2026. That should help make this franchise more attractive to free agents. You've got Connecticut's first round pick coming in next year, admittedly not your own pick because that was sent to Minnesota as part of the Angel Reese trade, which I don't think you can really complain about that you made the move to go up in the draft to get Angel Reese. It's okay if you had to sacrifice a little bit of extra draft capital because Angel Reese is awesome. So you've got a lottery pick coming in, you've got the practice facility. You still have angel and Camilla under rookie contracts. I think you kind of just have to think 2025 washed away, it didn't work. Try to get a little younger next year. But I just don't think it's all doom and gloom in Chicago because you have the most important thing, which is Angel Reese, a player you can legitimately build around from a off court perspective and an on court perspective. And the franchise appears to be making like at least minimal improvements, right, in terms of infrastructure because that facility is just gonna be such a dramatic improvement over what they're currently working with practice wise.
- [38:38]
Zena Keda
I'm with you. I do think that it's not all doom and gloom. I think, Brendan, you gotta go outside, smell some air, touch some grass. It's okay. It's not that bad now. But I do feel for you, Brendan. I do feel for you because from what I know about Chicago sports teams, it's rough. It's rough out there. So I can imagine that this was just compiling and piling on top of you as you wrote this message.
- [39:04]
Ben Pickman
At least they have a franchise building block like superstar.
- [39:08]
Zena Keda
Exactly, exactly, exactly. Okay, so let's keep it going. Let's move it over to officiating. Ooh, injuries, officiating. I feel like these are these two big topics that have just been like floating over our heads this entire WNBA season. And officiating has been one that's like everybody's talking about it, right? It's not just the players, it's not the coaches, it's the fit, it's everyone is talking about it. So let's get into this question from Jennifer, who wants to know, would it be quicker if reviews and challenges were reviewed? I'm reading this and I've read this already, but when I say it out loud, because we've seen this happen before in another league, would this be quicker if reviews and challenges were reviewed by a central slash neutral location? Sabrina, I'm throw this to you, right?
- [39:57]
Sabrina Merchant
So I think I was making an NBA comparison which does have an off site replay center that takes care of things like out of bounds calls or goaltending. And like, makes, you know, those objective decisions very easy to come up with because you have 75 cameras looking at the same play as opposed to three referees looking at one little unit at a WNBA game trying to figure out what's going on when the fans are watching a much bigger replay on the scoreboard and like, how come they can't see this. So, yeah, I think having an off site replay center makes a lot of sense. As far as I understand, it is a matter of resources. The WNBA doesn't have one yet. So you'd think with all of this money coming into the WNBA, $750 million in expansion fees, sponsorship, media revenue, all that, some of that should theoretically go into having like four cameras. That's the caucus, right? Like, let's just operate the NBA replay center to work for the WNBA for a couple nights of the year. This should make things easier. I will say even in the NBA, not every review goes to off site. Some of them are still conducted by the officials in the arena. Those are more of like the subjective things of like, was there contact here? Like, is this play really a foul? Things of that nature. You know, admittedly some of the reviews are just going to have to happen in the building. That's just the way the process works. And for what it's worth, like, the WNBA rulebook says that all reviews have to be conducted within two minutes. Clearly that has not been happening. But I would love for that to be a reminder to referees. I'm like Remember your training. This is a thing that is supposed to happen.
- [41:23]
Zena Keda
Listen, every team moving forward, every team put like a 122nd clock period every time you do a partnership deal about the play review. Like literally, partners and brands are buying that because it's legit real estate on the fly. It needs to come with a countdown clock and it needs to flash red. You have two minutes and if you're.
- [41:44]
Sabrina Merchant
Not done within two minutes, then like the call just stands. Let it go like it's done. Give them their challenge back.
- [41:48]
Zena Keda
Arena announcers, I need you to do a countdown. Okay, obnoxiously. Ten, nine, before. This keeps going because it's been ridiculous. The amount of games that have been supposed to be 2 hours long end up being 2 hours 45 because of reviews. It's, it's silly. Um, okay, well, I don't want to keep this podcast going to 2 hours and 45, so let's keep it moving. Our next question is from Poppy who is in writing. Who's writing from and in her work words, the middle of nowhere, Canada. So shout out to Poppy. She writes. Hi Xena, Sabrina and Ben. Hi. First of all, thank you guys and the rest of the team for the work you all put into the pod. You're welcome. It's my favorite source of anything basketball related and one of the highlights of my week. I am a new women's basketball fan. I just started watching this season and have absolutely fallen in love with the game in this awesome league. Well, welcome Poppy. We thank you for your kind words and we're very happy that your favorite source for basketball related facts and stats and all the above. So now let's get into your question. Poppy, when did the conversation of a special whistle begin to appear around WNBA fan media? Do they actually exist in reference to the special whistle? And how much do foul calls impact individual players games?
- [43:03]
Ben Pickman
I would say that this idea that superstars get preferential treatment is not new. It is not new to the wnba and it is something across all sports, whether that is is the NBA, whether that is professional football, whether that is professional soccer, that superstars get treated in the eyes of many differently than kind of the lay supporting cast player. And that is definitely not a new thing this year. I think what we have seen this year is, you know that that refrain often gets brought up in the like the, the frame of inconsistency around WNBA officiating and coaches loving to make light of like, like they're the best, you know, my best player who attacks the rim at all moments. How do they only shoot two free throws or four free throws or six free throws a game when the other team is shooting 25 themselves. Like, those two things don't make sense. And so that is often when we see this comment of just wanting more consistency from the officiating. And they kind of often use their star players and the lack in a certain context of free throws they might take in a game to try and bring light to their general officiating frustrations. To the question of how much do foul calls impact individual players games, I think that is can be a lot in a lot of circumstances, we both see coaches impact their rotations. But also when you watch especially early fouls in the first quarter of a game, for instance, you will see certain players defend drives differently or defend transition opportunities differently, because at a certain juncture, you know, if there's two minutes left in the first quarter of a game, a player might not want to pick up a second foul in transition contesting a contested layup, because the chances of them stopping that layup are low and the chances of getting that foul are high. And if they get that foul, you know, the net loss is greater than if they happen to block the shot, right? And so that is where the kind of foul map comes into play. And that is true for both players on court and also coaches who are making a lineup decisions more generally.
- [45:07]
Zena Keda
Thank you, Ben. And I think that, you know, what you started with is like the fact that this is nothing new for Papi in the middle of nowhere, Canada. And anyone that's new to this sport and to this game, look up the Jordan whistle, right? You'll see that this is something that has been a thing. And it's not just in this sport. It's in varieties of sports where certain players just don't get certain calls. And certain players get, you know, berated for certain calls. It's actually something in the NBA, you can look up the Jordan whistle or you could look up what Draymond Green had to say about how he is officiated.
- [45:38]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, it even happens, like in the NFL, you see players, like, talked about.
- [45:40]
Zena Keda
That's what I'm saying.
- [45:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. Like how they don't get called for pass interference or like they're allowed to hold more at the line than others. You know, like it's just a thing that happens.
- [45:47]
Zena Keda
Yeah, exactly. So it's. It might be new for you, Poppy, but yeah, buckle in. Okay? You'll be on this ride for a while. When it comes to this sport.
- [45:57]
Ben Pickman
Xena, can I just ask what kind of whistle did you get when you were playing at Yale? Would you say you got superstar calls or. Or how were you officiated then?
- [46:03]
Zena Keda
I absolutely did not get superstar calls. Are you kidding me? No. But I will say this. This is a little fun fact. Shout out to my mom. And this is like good and bad, but shout out to my mom. Because a lot of the referees when I was growing up at my AAU games had crushes on my mom. And so anytime they came into the game and they saw her, oh, the amount of fouls I would get away with was ridiculous. And I, and I started picking up on it. I had one tournament in Suwannee, Georgia, and I remember I was taking the ball out. I had swatted on a girl so bad. It was so. It was ridiculous. It was. My volleyball game was coming out and they didn't say anything. It was fine, whatever. Go to the other end. We're taking the ball out the net. The ref goes, he's like passing me the ball. He's got the whistle in his mouth. He's like, that's your mama. And I was like, I see what's happening here. So, no, I did not get a special whistle warranted by my play. I got a special whistle warranted by my. By my mom being a good looking woman. All right, let's keep it moving.
- [47:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Did I talk too much? Can't I just let it go? Take a breath.
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- [48:48]
Zena Keda
Okay, so let's close it out with one fun one. Daniel W. Albridge 1406 on YouTube asked what team do you think is the team everybody wants to beat the most this year? Sabrina, I'll start with you.
- [49:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I would have to think it's a defending champs, right? If you're Minnesota, your whole season has been geared up towards defeating the Liberty. If you're the Aces, your season was also ended by the Liberty last year. And there's a little bit of that Vegas New York rivalry still alive. So I mean, to me you always want to take down the team that's sworn the crown, right? So I think it would have to be New York.
- [49:23]
Zena Keda
Ben, you with that.
- [49:25]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I think what is so interesting is I think New York is the answer to who is the team that nobody wants to play in the playoffs because yeah, they've had a bad regular season. By their standards, they're probably going to enter the playoffs as a three, four or five seed. But if that roster is healthy and if they start to click over the last, you know, four, five, six games of this season, they look like the team that we saw in the first nine games of the season. They're going to be under seeded when they enter the playoffs. They'll be a team with legitimate again championship aspirations, fully capable of winning a title, but they'll just be a three seed or a four seed or a five seed. And so I don't think you'd want to see that team if they're playing their best to close out the stretch. So I think Sabrina makes a good point. But I also think they might also be the team that you are trying to avoid if you're looking to go on a deep playoff run.
- [50:16]
Zena Keda
Yeah, no, it makes sense. I feel like, like I have two answers to this question. I feel like the team that. I agree with you, Sabrina. I do think that everyone always wants to take down the defending champ. I do think that from a kind of almost like a barometer check, people want to beat the Lynx. They're so solid of a team that I think that if you beat them, it says a lot about your squad. And this is fee links or no fee links, like this is a solid team. But I also think that maybe it's less about the team and more about wanting to prove the fan base wrong. And I think there's a little bit of animosity towards the Indiana Fever. I feel like people want to shut that fan base up a little bit. And I don't know if the teams think about it, but I know the fan bases definitely get into it whenever their team is going up against the Fever fan base. Don't know if you guys have any.
- [51:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Thoughts on that in terms of the. Which team would you not want to play? I feel like the Aces have to be the answer to that. Like, New York, you're so.
- [51:10]
Zena Keda
Especially right now.
- [51:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. New Yorker. Sort of. Like, then to flip the switch. Right. Like, the team that they've been over the last six to eight weeks of the season, I don't think most teams are afraid of that. You know, like, that's a very beatable team. You looked at them.
- [51:21]
Ben Pickman
Agreed.
- [51:21]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. You know, even. Even with Brianna Stewart back, like, they barely get past Connecticut. We'll see how they do against Washington. But I think the Aces, like, you have the best player in the world, Nasia Wilson. You have a team that's just absolutely on fire, knows how to win championships. Right. Like, all of their core four have been part of multiple title runs. So. So, yeah, to me, like, if. If that's the question, you know, which team does nobody want to face? I think Las Vegas is the runaway answer there.
- [51:45]
Zena Keda
Ooh, I like that. I like that. Which arena would you not want to play in?
- [51:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Golden State?
- [51:51]
Zena Keda
I was going to say it's got to be ball Halla. It is. It's gotta be Valhalla. It is ridiculous in there. They could be down 20 and it's like they score a bucket and it's like we are killing you. It's great. It's like, it's the best energy in there. It's the best fans. I'm biased, but yeah. All right. Alrighty. Now let's close it out. That is all we've got for you today. We'll be back on Friday. Until then, if you haven't already, you gotta follow our show. You gotta tell your friends about it. You gotta tell your coworkers about it. You gotta tell everybody that loves basketball. You, Poppy. It is gonna be on you, sis. You gotta go all the way in the middle of nowhere Canada. You gotta tell everybody that's also in the middle of nowhere Canada about this show. And make sure if you're watching on YouTube, subscribe, tell your friends. And while you're at it, engage with us. Drop the comments, send the emails. You might end up in our next mailbag episode. I think we did a great job answering these questions for you guys and I hope you guys enjoyed it. We definitely want to do more, so make sure you're engaging and of course head on over to our partner at Yahoo Sports Hub for more content. Sports.yahoo.com Womens Sports on behalf of the Athletic Sabrina Ben, my good looking mama, I'm Zena Caida thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Keda with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bogala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing Editor of Women's Basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our Head of audio and Tim McMaster is direct director of Audio Operations.
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Sabrina Merchant
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That's great news. High Five everybody.
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