← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Inside the Golden State Valkyries Expansion Draft
00:46:32
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- [00:00]
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- [04:51]
Ben Pickman
For the Athletic I'm Ben Pickman and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to a special episode of the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. I'm Ben Pickman, joined by Sabrina Merchant and Sabrina the Golden State Valkyries finally have a team of players. On Friday night, the WNBA and the Valkyries announced the 11 players that the team pick. Also the one pass that they made made by the Golden State franchise and with it the next stage of team number 13's creation has passed and they are starting to look towards free agency. It is a roster highlighted by former ASUS guard Kate Martin, Liberty forward Kayla Thornton and Sun guard Veronica Burton. You can find the full Roster in all of Our analysis on TheAthletic.com but we wanted to bring you all this bonus Monday episode that has three parts. The first two are with the architects of the Valkyries roster. First, Sabrina and I speak with GM Ohema Nyanen, and then we talk with head coach Natalie Nikase. Finally, Sabrina and I will debrief the conversations we just had with the key players with the Valkyries, and we'll share our thoughts on what we think about the Valkyrie selections and where they go from here. So with that, here's our conversation with Ohema. Okay, so Ohema, you know, you've talked a lot about preparing for this draft and some of the qualities that you were looking for in players, their competitiveness, someone who's never satisfied being high character. I guess where we wanted to start is we just saw a fantasy draft, so to speak, in unrivaled, right, how they split those teams up. And they started with forwards, the Stewies, the fees, breaking up those players. For you guys, was there a position or a player that you started with, that you wanted to build around and said, okay, we want X. And so everything else kind of built out from there?
- [06:52]
Ohema Nyanen
That's a great question. No, that's not what we did. I think what we did was a combination of a lot of things, but first and foremost, what we did was kind of like silo every organization. So before we even got the list, we knew probably like three or four athletes per team. And then we had our own mock drafts and everybody took a stance on player A or B or C. And then we had passionate conversations as to why this athlete would be fitting into coach Natalie's philosophies right now. And then rinse, Repeat for the 12 teams and then everybody got to then leave, go watch film, come back discussion. If it all makes sense. I can tell you that there were times where we looked at our Valkyries team, right, like, having done this and was like, oh, so like, you can't play basketball with this many X type of athlete. So, yeah, maybe we need to, like, switch our ideas and like, go back. And so the completeness of our team is still yet to be determined. And we feel really, really good about how we started this journey with these 11 athletes that we selected.
- [08:25]
Ben Pickman
So a few follow ups there, I guess. I guess. One, how many hours are you watching film literally, on pretty much every player who was unprotected? And two, if you were going to approximate, like, how many different versions of the Valkyries, you know, 1.0. Did you guys are we Talking dozens and dozens. Are we talking more than a hundred?
- [08:47]
Ohema Nyanen
Like, what? We're trying to keep that information to ourselves so that the future. The future expansion draft teams don't have the blueprint. But we watched film. I can say we watched film on a lot of athletes. Like, what I will say is every athlete that was in contention of being selected, we watched film for. And the second part of your question, the contingencies. Yeah. Excel has become our best friend. All of us know how to use it very well. And again, respectfully declining to answer that question because people listen to what you guys got to say.
- [09:28]
Natalie Nikase
Were there any mock scenarios that you had that resembled what you ended up with, or did it all sort of.
- [09:34]
Ohema Nyanen
See, that's how you get to the meat of the question. No, yeah, no, I can say that. I can say we got close on a couple of teams, and, you know, the big question that we've gotten are, like, who were the surprise athletes? All 11. Right. Like, we want to make sure that each of these athletes understand that we value them and are just really excited to start the journey together. And however it's turns out, you know, prior to the start of May 16, we'll. We'll figure it out together, and it will be mutually beneficial.
- [10:16]
Natalie Nikase
Without trying to, you know, pry too much into your proprietary information here, you and Natalie have obviously become the public faces of the Valkyries throughout this process. But who else was in the room with you? Like, what sort of group were you working with, you know, to make these decisions?
- [10:29]
Ohema Nyanen
Yeah, so we have a couple of scouts. We have an analytics person. Vanya Chernowitz is our VP of basketball operations and my ownership group. Right. Like, there were some presentations of, you know, doing both, you know, the education around why these athletes, but then also, you know, getting their input on what type of athlete are they looking for as well. And, like, are we all aligned? I think that this process was one that we got to test out if we are indeed a group of individuals that are happy to problem solve together. And I can say, at the end of the day, we are smiling. We had a little champagne toast, and just to say, you know, we did it. It's really, really hard. This was a very emotional process because these are humans, and we know that there are just mixed feelings. Like, there is. I'm okay with mixed feelings because they're humans. You know, at one side, the team that you thought you were going to be with didn't protect you, and the other side, myself and this organization see all the potential and want to work with You. But you don't know us, so you don't have to want to work with us, and we hope that you do.
- [12:01]
Natalie Nikase
You had mentioned something in your press conference about how you wanted to make sure that you had sort of like, enough of everybody on the positional spectrum out of this draft. And I'm wondering, like, you still have free agency, you still have the draft. Why was it important now to have that positional versatility or, like, I guess, different positions right now?
- [12:18]
Ohema Nyanen
Yeah. Nothing is guaranteed in the future. Right. And so it's my job to prepare my ownership group with best case scenario, worst case scenario, medium scenario, you know, and just wanting to make sure that if nothing happens in the future, which is hopefully, you know, knock on any type of wood, wherever you guys are at, we would still be able to be competitive. I also think that this was an opportunity for people to see kind of like where our mind is at. I think the WMBA is the best league in the world. Fill in the blank. These athletes deserve to be in the wnba. Right. And so there's a storyline behind each and every one of them. If they've been in the league, if they haven't been in the league, why them? Why not somebody else? And I think at the end of the day, we did right by our fans and our ownership group and ourselves. Like, these group of athletes are representative of what we want to build come May 16th.
- [13:27]
Ben Pickman
You know, you mentioned trying to have the best athletes in the world. I know so many people coming out of the expansion draft are focusing on the world aspect, knowing that you have seven of your 11 players are international players. You mentioned Vanya and how important was she in scouting, her insight, knowing her familiarity with some of those players, and especially, like, I thought about an Easter egg. Okay. She had Temmie in London, for instance. Right. Like, we often think about your connection with kt, Natalie's with ili, Rupert, for instance. But how important were those kind of connections we might not think about when you were assembling this current group.
- [14:05]
Ohema Nyanen
Yeah. Vanya's integral to the makeup of our organization. I hired her for a reason. She was the first person I hired, and she's not getting talked about a lot, but she was the GM of the London Lions. She won Eurocup in two years. Like, what she was able to do with all of the obstacles ahead of her. She's a bright light, She's a bright mind. She. She cares, she's passionate. So it's interesting that people are now questioning it. When I was so loud at the beginning to say, look at my first hire. Look at my first hire. She's an amazing force. And so all of the things I value very much, her experiences, just as much as I value Coach Natalie's experiences, because I wasn't in those rooms. And they are people who unapologetically want us to win. So, you know, whatever they say and however they say it, I know it's coming from a great place. And we're going to build together along those lines, though.
- [15:17]
Ben Pickman
And obviously the familiarity in her experience, as you're talking about, was so integral. You know, some of the international players realistically probably might not or probably won't come over either right away or at all. I reported after you picked Maria Kande, like, I had talked to her two years ago, and she talked about how the Spanish national team is her priority. And, you know, they have Euro Basket this June. And, you know, there are a number of players like that who took long stretches away from the W that could leave some holes in your roster. So I guess the question is, how did you kind of weigh grabbing those players now versus accumulating, you know, other future assets, you know, via trade, draft picks down the road, knowing how much the WNBA is going to be changing very soon?
- [16:02]
Ohema Nyanen
Yeah. At the end of all of my presentations, there was the calendar for June. We play 11 games in June, and EuroBasket starts June 18 and ends June 29. Like that was. It wasn't an oversight. Right. Like that. We didn't know that eurobasket was is happening, and we don't have a crystal ball to know which athletes are going to qualify for until early February. And so for us, we knew after we made these selections, there was always going to be a lot of work in free agency. And we also wanted to be able to have conversations with these athletes openly and honestly, and then based off of those conversations, then go attack free agency and the collegiate draft with the mindset of understanding who will be available, who won't. Is it a combination? And to be selected in an expansion draft is an honor. And so we want them to get to know us. And as they continue to get to know us and be on this journey with us, they'll make the decisions that they need to make, and we'll make the decisions we need to make, and hopefully they feel valued throughout the entire journey.
- [17:28]
Natalie Nikase
You know, just looking at the list of players that you selected, other than the international part standing out, Kate Martin's the only one who's currently on a rookie contract. I guess Carlo Leyte could technically get to be on a Rookie contract. But there's not a lot of team control, I suppose, with a lot of the players you selected. So I'm wondering how that factored into your process in terms of how to select players who you were familiar with but, like, you know, may not have control over for so long.
- [17:53]
Ohema Nyanen
It's a great question. I think I would answer it similarly to the question prior because I think, you know, from this experience, what I've understood is because just as much as we want to win and do it the right way and bring good people, those people also have to want to do it with us as well. And so we'll figure that part out. That is what I'm hanging my hat on is who I am as an individual. The people that I've hired currently and will hire in the future, athletes are going to want to be a part of this Valkyrie violet squad, and they're going to want to, you know, kind of be as competitive as Coach Natalie needs them to be, to always be in games and win games that we're supposed to win. Right.
- [18:43]
Ben Pickman
So, yeah, I guess we will then get you out of here on this. When did you kind of settle on the final 11 and the one pass, I guess, when did you have that kind of pencils down moment and step back and say, this is it. We're locking this in? And how did you feel in that moment when, you know, you did come to a final decision as a group and say, you know, this is the inaugural group that. That we're going to select on Friday night?
- [19:09]
Ohema Nyanen
Yeah, it was. It wasn't down to the wire, but it was down to the wire. I would say, like, we all did our due diligence, made sure that we had meetings daily in. In advance of when the deadline was. And then, you know, as we got closer to the deadline, we were done. All the conversations. I've been approved, like, in. And then, you know, I kind of look at Vanya and I'm like, so should I hit send? And, you know, Vanya looked at me and she was like, yeah, yeah. Yes, hit send. So I just took a moment and she was in my office and we got to hit send together. So, yeah, it was a special moment because that was like, her and I, like, special moment together to be like. The journey has begun officially.
- [20:07]
Ben Pickman
We appreciate you at the beginning of this journey that everyone has been watching so closely and will continue to. Not only the other 12 franchises right now, but the two and maybe three to come. I know everyone is watching and is excited to see what comes out of it. And so we appreciate you joining the Athletic women's basketball show and talking about it all.
- [20:25]
Ohema Nyanen
Thank you. But thank you for having me. Go, Valks.
- [20:30]
Ben Pickman
So, Natalie, we just finished talking with Ohema this morning, and she was detailing some of the process that you guys went through, and part of that involved, it seems like a lot of film watching of tons and tons of players. She's basically made it seem like everyone who you thought could be unprotected. I don't expect you to divulge all the secrets of all the takeaways you learned, but was there, I don't know, one player who you maybe ended up with that as you dove into their film, who really surprised you or impressed you or you just learned a lot about that you maybe didn't prior to taking part in this exercise?
- [21:04]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, a lot of them, actually, the more I watched a ton of film on them, I was just like, ooh, like, I could utilize, you know, her in this space and defensively, you know, versatility is key. But the one person I'd say just right off the top, just because I ended up watching a lot of film on her at the end, was Monique Billings. She really impressed me with the. Because, again, she's been on so many different teams. So to me, that shows, you know, a lot of maturity, that she can just be plugged in and adjust and then perform really, really well. That's very hard. And so that's something I took to account as I. As I watched her. But she was able to get the board, boom, push it coast to coast, and finish with either hand. And so I'm like, I could utilize that, you know, because again, having all positions, you know, being able to do that, I think that's going to help our tempo.
- [21:56]
Natalie Nikase
I appreciate that you're fully on brand with UCLA players, Natalie.
- [21:59]
Sabrina Merchant
I. I knew Monique went to ucla. You know, we didn't cross. I mean, she's so much younger than me, but, yeah, I mean, that wasn't any. Anything intentional, but, like, of course, you know, we could share, you know, the same family that we came from.
- [22:12]
Ben Pickman
So what was it like then? You know, maybe Thursday, Thursday afternoon, when you guys were about to press end and submit, you know, your roster and the inaugural team. Just describe that moment. Where were you? Were you with Vanya and Ohema, or were you somewhere else? And what was kind of going through your mind as you finally submitted it and sent it away? And, like, the work, in theory, for this part was done.
- [22:38]
Sabrina Merchant
I think we were in. We were all in the facility in Oakland. And I think at the time, you know, I was still watching film, you know, just continuing to watch and learn. And. Yeah, oh, I sent it. And I think after we kind of went out to lunch and just kind of celebrated and enjoyed, you know, the fact of all of our hard work, felt very, very good with sending in our list and just a chance to breathe. I mean, I'm sure Ohema, you know, spoke about that. Like, we now just get to take a deep breath after all the hard work. But, you know, seeing and hearing, watching all the videos I've been sending with the players have just been priceless.
- [23:19]
Natalie Nikase
So you have, you know, all of the work going into Thursday, and then Friday, the big party, right. All of the people who are announcing your names, like E40 and Baron, Davis and Michelle, we what I guess just sort of take us through Friday. Like, what was it like to just sit there and watch this big celebration of what's to come in Golden State?
- [23:37]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So Golden State kind of does this whole thing where, like, they don't tell you what's about to happen, which is great because they like to surprise us with the amount of people, the amount of love, the amount of support. So when I walked in, I was just, like, overwhelmed with the intentional details of how they decorated it, how everything was laid out. And then, you know, we had ESPN in the corner, so we kind of knew what avenues we were going to make sure we talked to and be ready for these questions and things like that. So the intentionality was. Was very impressive. And then, yeah, seeing Baron. I mean, I haven't seen Baron in a couple of years. We actually, you know, we went to school together. We did ACL rehab together. So it was really a full circle to see him. And just. It's funny just because, you know, he told me how proud he was of me. And, you know, to hear that from one of the best point guards, I felt, you know, coming from Southern California. I never told him this. Actually should have told them this last night, but my dad had me in high school. We went to a tournament where he played in Ocean View High School. And he's like, now I really want you to go see this point guard. And I'm like, how good can he be, right? Like, I'm like, how good can this guy be? And I was like, I think he's a sophomore at the time. And I'm like, dad, this guy cannot be a sophomore. I think he's like a double senior or something like that. Like, he was so, like, quick. Just his ability to see the floor, to read the defense, and to make things easy. I was like, wow. So I don't think I ever told him that. But, you know, I've been a fan of Baron for a while, and just to see him go up there and. And call the names, I just, you know, it really kind of warmed my heart. And an E40, I mean, a legend in the Bay. Come on. I'm just like, this is crazy. Got a picture with him and, you know, just said, hey, you know, you know, I saw you at some Aces game, so just make sure you, you know, you start cheering for the Valkyries. But as long as he supports women's basketball. And then Michelle, we. I mean, just a huge fan. I mean, she's a Asian American athlete that's gone pro, and so there's not that many of them. So I've always kind of looked up to her from afar because I understand how hard it is to be a professional. But she was elite. It wasn't that she was, you know, a pro. So, yeah, just. I was overwhelmed, you know, with. With all the guests, and just their intent to support women's basketball really helped.
- [26:05]
Ben Pickman
Was that a surprise? So you didn't know any of them were coming?
- [26:08]
Sabrina Merchant
So we knew the day before. But to actually kind of see it, you know, happen, that's completely different. And then when you get to meet them and to see, like, the only person I didn't really meet was E40, but I knew, you know, Michelle and Baron, and so it just, like, they're just really great people. And I think that always helps, you know?
- [26:28]
Natalie Nikase
Yeah. Ben and I were joking prior to the expansion draft that, like, we should ask every general manager what their drink of choice was while they were watching, you know, to see who. Which player was gonna be taken away. And Ohama told us you guys celebrated with champagne. So what was that moment like for you guys when, you know, it was all over and you got to see, like, the 11 and have it be official for now.
- [26:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So we went out after I did my hour of tv, live tv. They, her and Vanya have champagne. That's just their thing. Champagne gives me a headache. So I drink. I drink a red Cab. And so, yeah, it was. We were just, like. We all just took a breath, but just very excited. Just because we understand all that work that kind of went behind the scenes. And I'm just going to be very honest. Like, Vanya and Ohema did majority of the work, like, in terms of, like, setting everything, organizing. So when I came to our meetings, it was already a line for me of, like, what I had to do. And then I would watch the film, you know, at my own own time and. And my own pace, because we watched film differently, but they set it up. They. They did all the work behind, behind the scenes and our scouts. And so I'm just lucky. Like, I have really two, like, two partners in crime that really love to work hard because it makes my job a lot easier. And. And it's a lot of fun, you know, when you work hard. It's part of the process where I really enjoy, because I think for us, I think we did a great job, you know, and seeing people's reactions. I think we did a great job with the reactions.
- [28:00]
Ben Pickman
Just building off the process point for a second. I mean, when you were interviewing for the job and thinking about this process and then actually going through it, like, how did what you ended up. You yourself ended up doing to prepare for the expansion draft differ from maybe how you thought you were going to prepare or what you needed to look at? Did it differ at all, or was it consistent from what you thought to what ended up transpiring?
- [28:24]
Sabrina Merchant
That's a good question. I mean, I really had no idea because I had never done expansion before. So I'm just going to be honest. Like, that's why I was so impressed with the amount of preparation they did. I mean, literally, once I did my press conference, I did say, like, okay, like, what are we doing for expansion draft? And they already had it. Every roster laid out in terms of, like, details. And then all they said was, hey, let's, like, first thing, like, you have your list, we have ours. Let's collaborate right now and see, like, where we are with which players we do like. But again, we're taking a guess at that time, right? Like, we didn't have the list, and so we were just, you know, taking a guess. But it's funny because we aligned in a lot of the players that we wanted. And so again, I think I mentioned this, like, it was, like, collaboration discussion and go watch film. And we just kept doing it over and over again. And like I said, they set me up for success because, you know, all the preparation that they did.
- [29:18]
Natalie Nikase
Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not sure that, like, everybody who was watching was aware, but a lot of the players found out in real time that they got selected by Golden State. I mean, I know you got to tell a couple of them ahead of time just for media, but what were, like, those phone calls, like, Because I imagine a lot of these Players are playing overseas. Like, I'm not even sure if they were awake, like, when the expansion draft was going on. So, like, can you share any of, like, that insight into, like, what it was, like, when you got to call like, Julie Van Leeuw or somebody and like, what, what the. What the reaction was when they found out they're gonna be part of the Golden State Valkyries?
- [29:46]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. I mean, we had to also think about, well, what if I was in their shoes, right? And someone just called. Three strangers just call, and they're just like, hey, you ready to come over to. You know, especially with the ones over internationally, it's like, are you ready to move your life across the world? And, you know, because like, like, I work, I played overseas, I coach overseas. It is not easy for anyone, any age. It doesn't matter because you just move away from your family and your culture. So we were just anticipating for the best, but trying to make it as, you know, smooth transition as possible, but also be excited at the same time. So I would say they're all so good. I'm trying to think of, like, specifically, I mean, like, you said Julie. Julie was. Julie cried. Julie was just in tears. And she just. You could feel her through, you know, the FaceTime. You could feel her because she was just, like, elated. She was so excited. And she said, you know, this is something she's obviously been working hard for. She's 31 years old, so last year was her first year, you know, in the wnba. And she's like, but this is my dream. And when she said that, it just, you know, like, to help someone make their dreams come true. I mean, it's just, you know, it's exciting feeling. I'm like, kind of getting teary out of talking about it. But she. But the best thing that she said was she's like, I'm hungry for it, you know, and more importantly, she's like, you're not going to be disappointed that you chose me. And I just was like, I said that a lot in my life, so I'm kind of like, wow, this is really cool, you know, and you could tell, like, she owns it. And she. She stands behind what she says. And so, yeah, I was really excited. I was excited for all of them, but she stood up for me.
- [31:25]
Ben Pickman
I just have to ask a follow up there because she's playing in Turkey right now. So there it was like, I want to say 2:30 in the morning when the expansion, like, when did you talk to her? Was it. Was she. Was she even awake? Like, what were the mechanics of when you actually informed her of the news? How late in the night was it for her?
- [31:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I can't. Ohema was the one who. Who died most of the times. And Vanya. Vanya actually did because of the international.
- [31:49]
Ben Pickman
Right.
- [31:50]
Sabrina Merchant
I can't remember. I just be honest, but I just remember. I think it was earlier, I don't know, but she just, she. Her hair was all over like her. I just. None of them were like camera ready, so it was just really funny to see. I remember she was just so excited. So I mean, she probably would have stayed up till 5:00, you know, or whatever time it was.
- [32:12]
Ohema Nyanen
So.
- [32:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, she was. She was great. They're all great.
- [32:17]
Natalie Nikase
It's funny, you hear all these stories, like during the college draft and whatnot, when international players are drafted and like, they don't stay up to watch and their agent calls them in the morning and they find out that like, they were, you know, announced such and such. So I look forward to seeing, you know, Golden State social, whatever they come up with in terms of your announcement videos here.
- [32:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it's been great. I mean, watching them, it's just, you know, so heartwarming and. But I'm like, can we get them here? Can we get him here? So now I'm excited.
- [32:45]
Natalie Nikase
Yeah. I mean, I know you mentioned that you were just ready to like, ship the players out. You wanted to start working right away. Obviously they do have seasons to finish in Europe, Australia, wherever they happen to be. So. But just like, what comes next for you now? What is, you know, the next, I don't know, month look like for Natalie Nakase?
- [32:59]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So honestly, just continuing my relationships, building relationships with them. I think it's key, again, the fact that, like, I. There literally can't be here. It's. It's just kind of foreign for me. So however I can. To make sure that they feel that they're getting to know me at a level to where, you know, April doesn't come around and they're just like, hey, coach, like, who are you? You know, so just again, trying to continue communication. If they have any questions for me, I want. I want to answer them. And then, you know, really building like a good mindset through. Through that. Like, I keep focusing on competitiveness, you know, but I want to try to not, I wouldn't say ingrain in their. In their minds, but just understand, like, what is about to happen just because we have really great expectations here in the bay and I really want to be the best version, you know? Of a team prepared to go into a season with all players coming from all sorts of the world.
- [34:01]
Ben Pickman
So, yeah, we appreciate you making a little bit of time and it seems like as you figure out what's going to happen, we're excited to see what is going to happen from here on out. And we know it's been a busy 12 hours. Will be a busy 24 hours. Will be. Seems like a busy month of film watching and relationship building and everything gearing up to free agency. So we appreciate you stopping by, making a little bit of time and congratulations on all that has happened so far. We look forward to seeing what's next.
- [34:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it.
- [34:28]
Ben Pickman
So, Sabrina, we've just heard from Ohema and Natalie. I guess my first question to you is a broad one. Just what do you make of their process and also how this roster started to come about?
- [34:40]
Natalie Nikase
Honestly, the first thing that stood out to me is they're so happy about what just happened. Like, I realized it should be a very exciting time for Golden State. You know, this is the basically the first step in them becoming a honest to goodness WNBA team. But they're just like beaming about all of these selections and like, you know, everyone always says after they draft, like, this was the top player on our board, yada, yada, yada. But like, I don't know, it just seems like it should be a really stressful time for the Valkyries with all of these decisions that have to be made. You know, 12 things all at once. And like you and I, you know, we'll have some thoughts about the players that they selected, but they're like universally just thrilled. It's. If they're acting, if they're putting on a show, like, I'm buying it completely. It just, it all sounds really good and warm and fuzzy and everything in Valkyrie Violet is very happy.
- [35:23]
Ben Pickman
Yeah. To that idea. Listening to Natalie talk about kind of calling Julie Van Leeuw, right? And having that phone call and seeing a player who's emotional and is so happy about this next opportunity. That's not to say every single player had that reaction, but that kind of call reminds you of draft night, right? As you were talking about of when a player gets picked in college and you see all those videos of just what this means and, and I don't know if I would have expected like a phone call like that to occur during an expansion draft for a player who is a professional veteran. Yes, it's someone like that second year in the W or will be this year. But you know, Those are typically the call kind of calls reserved for an 18, 19, 20, 21 year old when they're getting into professional sports. So hearing that, I think I totally agree on, like, the kind of warm and fuzzy call moment. The thing that I still really would like to know, and we talked to oh, Helmet and we asked her about it, and she wouldn't give us an answer is just how many machinations, you know, how many dozens of teams and rosters did they put together? Because it is the kind of thing that, like, you know, I think we were texting after certainly, like people around the league, I think were texting. It's like, okay, would you rather have this two players or that two players? Would you rather do this or that, like A or B, X or Y? There were so many different combinations and we don't even know the list, but, like, there were so many combinations I'm sure they could have played with. It just would have been fascinating to see not even just who they picked, but, like, how many other combinations of teams and rosters they would have they came up with throughout this process.
- [36:49]
Natalie Nikase
Absolutely. I mean, you and I started brainstorming back in July. Right. What these things could look like. And we came up with so many different, you know, permutations for how this could go just in our own mock exercise. And even then, like, there are so many differences between what we predicted and what actually ended up happening. Right. Like, collectively, we came up with four of the same picks that Golden State did out of 12 total. So, you know, they were teams where our protected lists obviously differed from theirs because the players that were picked were, you know, not available in our exercise. So just thinking about, like, our, you know, mocking and like, how many variabilities there were there, and then thinking about what Golden State must have done, considering this was their only job for the last three months and all of the people involved in that process. Yeah. As Ohama said, Excel is like their best friend. I can only imagine the number of sheets and just like shared documents going back and forth across that they can just mercifully put to bed now.
- [37:42]
Ben Pickman
I want to give us credit. I know you mentioned the four initially in our first draft of the mock exercise. We actually had Indiana taking temifag benle, but we thought there was no way. We thought there was no way that Indiana was going to let her go unprotected. I know that was a surprise pick by us that Indiana did so. And also a surprise pick by, I think, many people. So I might give us like a half credit on that because it was in our initial mock of the roster to their roster that they actually picked and that is announced, I guess. What do you kind of make of the 11 players that they came away with? Seven of them are foreign born players. I think the average age is what, 27, 28 years old. Of the players they picked, you, you know, it's a mix of some players who have some WNB experience, some older players who have been pros for a while but don't have a lot of WNB experience. You have, you know, someone like Kate Martin on a rookie scale contract. You have someone like Carlo Leyte who has never come over to the WNBA and is still 20 years old. What's kind of your big picture thought on the 11/plus pass that they came away with?
- [38:48]
Natalie Nikase
So when I, you know, attempted this exercise as the mock Golden State general manager, my thought process was I want to take a lot of big swings, right? Like there are young players who are buried on these other teams that haven't had a chance to really shine. My thought was let's just get as many of them as possible, you know, as many lottery tickets and then see which ones hit. And I was a little surprised, I guess that Golden State did not take any of those or not any. But like many of those risks, you know, you look at a team like Washington where Julie Van Leeuw obviously very excited to be a member of the Golden State Valkyries, but there were a lot of young players that I assume the Mystics could not have protected. You know, they have Aaliyah Edwards, Shakira Austin, Jade Melbourne, Sika Kone, Emily Engsler, like Lee Mung is still on their rights list. There's no way they protected all six of those right when you still have Brittany Sykes and Ariel Atkins and all of the other veterans on this roster. And so I was surprised that instead of taking a look at a younger player, they went with the 31 year old Julie Van Lewis. And you know, similarly on Minnesota, Cecchi Zandelicini, solid role player for the Minnesota Lynx. I'd have to imagine that one of Alyssa Pele or Diamond Miller was unprotected and they didn't go with either of those. You know, so to me, the fact that they went with these proven role players where they're fairly certain of what their skill sets are instead of just taking a risk on younger players is a decision that I was just surprised by and you know, maybe thought they would have gone in a different direction.
- [40:14]
Ben Pickman
You know, I think what's making it hard to fully evaluate Their predictions is just the information void that we have in the public. And this is really the ultimate, like, incomplete grade exercise because we both don't know any of the parameters, the literal players that they could have picked. Like, we don't have a full list of names. And also, you have to remember, like, we're maybe not trying to, but like, the roster they have now is going to be different, very likely than the one that suits up on May 16th. Right. Like, we have free agency, we might see some trades. We have the WNBA draft. So Natalie Nakase said during her press conference on Friday night that all 11 players they picked will have the opportunity to compete for a roster spot if they choose to come over and, you know, do so. But, like, it's pretty unlikely that all 11 will be, you know, just realistically the 11 that are wearing Valkyries jerseys on their opening night roster. And so, you know, I think, you know, I, I don't want to punt the, the expansion draft grade off, but, you know, it is a little bit unfair to like, fully crack down on any decision either way because, you know, we're comparing what they have right now with an off season ahead to like, the Las Vegas Aces, the New York Liberty, whereas in theory, we should probably be comparing it to, you know, the Chicago Sky 2006 expansion draft or the Atlanta Dream 2008 expansion draft. And you look at those drafts like there was one All Star picked on each of those teams, right? Like, you know, maybe someone from this group becomes an All Star and maybe they have more than one person become an All Star. But more likely, history would tell us they got a bunch of really good role players or good role players, some of which will contribute right away, some of which might not contribute at all.
- [42:03]
Natalie Nikase
I mean, the funny thing about grades is we give grades for situations that we often have very little information about anyway. So I don't think that should, you know, preclude us from assessing what's happening now. But I agree with you. Just the fact that we don't know the lists and we don't know, like, what exact decisions they were working with. The amount of secrecy in this process is just very different from most of the other transactional windows we deal with in the wnba. So that, that does change things. And like you said, I mean, I just want to reiterate, the Valkyries can waive any of these players without a hit to their salary cap. And I mean, they likely won't even have to because only three of them are even signed to contracts in 2025. That would be Kate Martin, Kayla Thornton and Stephanie Talbot. Everybody else is some kind of free agent, so they'll have to negotiate some kind of new deal. Whether that ends up happening with the Valkyries is an open question. Right. A lot of these international players are on reserved or suspended contracts and, like, they could choose to come back to the W. They could choose to just sit out 2025. As Ohama mentioned, Eurobasket is happening in 2025, so there will be national team commitments for at least some of these players. So that's just another factor working in their availability question. But, yeah, I mean, you and I kind of talked about this earlier. I would be surprised if, like, more than five of the players in this expansion draft are actually suited up on May 16th. Maybe that's too low of a number, but there's just so much of the offseason left. Golden State has really tried to position itself as a free agency destination. And, you know, I look at the contracts of like, Kayla Thornton and Steph Talvin and I'm like, those are just asking for a contender to trade for them right now. So I think there's still a lot left to be done. You know, it's very interesting to see what Golden State has already prioritized, but I just can't imagine that this is, you know, the team that's going to take the floor against the Los Angeles Sparks on opening night.
- [43:47]
Ben Pickman
It'd be pretty funny, I guess, for us, just from an entertainment perspective. Pretty interesting, I guess, if Golden State, like, traded a player back to their original team and was like, okay, I'll give you this one back for like, give me two more players, you know, and assembled their roster that way. I'm looking at you, New York Liberty. Could you go two for one back for Kayla Thornton? You speak about free agency and there's a number of players who I think will continue to round out the roster. But let's go big game hunting, so to speak, for a little bit because we know how important stars and having stars are to success in the wnba. Who are some names that you think they should be targeting? They might be targeting and you think could really help the core that they have us picked on Friday night, on Thursday night become a legitimate playoff and beyond team in the W. Well, I.
- [44:33]
Natalie Nikase
Look at the roster that's been assembled and there's a nice selection of bigs. You've got Temmie, Ileana, Repair, Monique Billings. You've got a bunch of wings, right? Kayla Thornton, Talbot, Zander, Lasini, and then two point guards. I would Say, who are probably guaranteed to come over to the wnba. I'm just not sure about Carla Leyte yet with Van Leeuwen, Veronica Burton, kind of a big hole at the two guard spot. And so we know that there is a shooting guard in Seattle who is asking out of the Storm in Jewel Lloyd and wants a new destination. Maybe Golden State could, you know, make them an offer to make Jewel Lloyd kind of like the foundational piece of their first roster. Natalie Nicase's old home in Las Vegas. Kelsey Plum is an unrestricted free agent. Presumably the Aces will core her. But, you know, we've. We've mentioned this quite a few times. I think every single member of the core four in Las Vegas has signed an extension before hitting unrestricted free agency. Kelsey is the first one not to. So it is a little surprising that a deal wasn't made there if she did want out. I think her returning to her home state of California, a coach who she's familiar with, Natalie, like, spoke just glowingly about Kelsey in her press conference after the expansion draft was like, kind of emotional, talking about the work that she's been able to do with Kelsey in Las Vegas. So she seems to me like a very natural fit alongside the pieces that they already have on this roster, you know, so if you're thinking big like Jewel and Kelsey would be the place to start. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention another unrestricted free agent shooting guard and Kelsey Mitchell, who I would expect to return to the Indiana Fever. But also, like, if she wants to test out her options, maybe be cool to be the star of her own team in California.
- [46:08]
Ben Pickman
It's interesting that you mentioned some of the players who can be Cord, and we should throw someone like Alyssa Thomas, who, you know, is an unrestricted free agent, who Connecticut can core, for instance, into this conversation because what Golden State didn't do is they didn't make any trades for basically future draft picks going through this expansion draft process. And Ohema during her press conference mentioned that there were some conversations, but they ended up, you know, just making the picks that they made. And it is interesting to me because theoretically, had you acquired, you know, an extra first, an extra second, those are future assets that, you know, if I'm the Las Vegas Aces, seems like you can suddenly throw those into possible trades for Kelsey Plum or for AT or for Jewel Lloyd, like, the more assets like that that you have, seemingly the better. Now, Golden State obviously has a full, you know, has all their draft picks at this point in time, so they're not short on picks the way some other franchises are, but having some extra things, extra assets to throw around, I think maybe would have been sweetener in some of those deals. And who knows, maybe they still get deals done without having extra picks. But it's just another hypothetical that I'm sure they talked about because it seems like, you know, they talked about literally every scenario under the sun. But it's just another thing that could have happened that I think is worth watching as free agency takes hold in just over a month.
- [47:29]
Natalie Nikase
And just in thinking about those future assets, I wanted to address the Seattle part of the expansion draft real quick because I did think it was interesting that they chose to pass on the Storm altogether. And if you look at the Storm's active roster, all of those unrestricted free agents, it's understandable why Golden State would choose to prioritize Monique Billings over Mercedes Russell or Joyner Holmes or Sammy Whitcomb. But to not even take like Mackenzie Holmes off of Seattle's draft right list was kind of interesting to me because she just seems to be like the kind of sweetener, you know, who you could throw into a trade to be like, hey, you know, we might not have like an extra second rounder to give you, but Mackenzie Holmes, Big Ten player of the year, nice young player to take a flyer on. Like, that's just strange to me that they wouldn't even try that. I'm curious to see, like, what their thought process was down the line about just eliminating the Storm from their process altogether.
- [48:22]
Ben Pickman
I mean, the big thing, I think the takeaway that we have on the roster is it's just a big wait and see, right? Like, it is early to evaluate. We know that Joe Lakob, the owner of this team, has put some pretty high expectations about them wanting to contend. You know, I think what did he say? Win a championship within the first.
- [48:38]
Natalie Nikase
Within five years. Which is exactly what he said when he bought the Golden State Warriors.
- [48:42]
Ben Pickman
And they did it and they did. But do you know who was very important to helping them win a title? That would be Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, a whole list of stars, hall of Famers. And currently, as we record this podcast right after the expansion draft, Golden State does not have that. Or the Valkyries, I should say, do not have that on their roster. And so, you know, I think again, keep a close eye out on what they do from here, I guess. Any final thoughts on next steps on things you're watching for that fans should be aware of in this Golden State Valkyries creation process in the lead up to, you know, the start of the regular season.
- [49:21]
Natalie Nikase
I mean, we mentioned the hole at the two guard, but otherwise, like I think Golden State's roster makes a lot of sense together. So they're not going to be operating from a position of desperation during free agency. Right? They can kind of just survey the market and see who fits them the best, who's most interested in coming. And like they're not boxed into making any particular decisions because of a positional deficiency. So I think that's, that's just a good place to be operating from.
- [49:42]
Ben Pickman
And they made their values pretty clear, like both positionally in terms of what their might, their needs might be. But also I think it was pretty clear both in our conversation and in some of the other media interviews that, you know, Hama and Natalie have done. And also what I'm sure they're messaging to agents and players and different from people, stakeholders around the league, like the kinds of people that they want, competitive, high character, willing to sacrifice, people who will shoot a lot of threes, push the pace on offense, be physical defenders. These are all some of the things that they're looking for. And now suddenly if you're a prospective free agent, you can think about and imagine how you fit into the context of the Golden State Valkyries and what the Valkyrie violet as the color is called. I guess that will forever be dubbed their shade of a violet of purple. So that wraps up this episode, this bonus episode of the athletic women's basketball. We will actually be back tomorrow on Tuesday with our normal shows. Sabrina Chantel, Xena breaking down all things college basketball because nothing is ever stopping. There are no off seasons in the women's basketball world. And then we will be back with more regular scheduled programming later in the week week with another WNBA related interview. We will leave that as a surprise with someone else who just got hired and is taking on a new role. So we've really enjoyed bringing you all these conversations and we hope that you have enjoyed listening and gaining some insights from them too. But for Sabrina, I am Ben Pickman. Thanking you all for listening, for learning, for loving the game, for enjoying the conversations and the expansion draft it is finally here. We will talk to you tomorrow.
- [51:17]
Sabrina Merchant
Foreign.
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Natalie Nikase
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Ben Pickman
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge or.
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Natalie Nikase
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
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Natalie Nikase
Did we just age ourselves?
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Ben Pickman
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Natalie Nikase
Acast.com.