← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Intriguing college women's basketball players to watch
00:29:07
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- [00:00]
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- [00:22]
Zena Caida
There to watch them.
- [00:23]
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- [01:31]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
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- [02:51]
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- [04:57]
Zena Caida
For the athletic I'm Zena Caida and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we have finally gotten into NCAA Women's basketball action. Very excited to have Lindsey Dark Angelou back with us to talk about a very interesting list that she just dropped on the Athletic this week. Not your average top list, right? We're we're Used to hearing these are your top freshmen, these are your top rookies, and don't worry, we got all of that too. But she has a list called the most intriguing. Lindsay, welcome to the show.
- [05:49]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Thanks for having me back. Happy to be here.
- [05:51]
Zena Caida
Oh, we'll have you back tons of time, especially when you've got really interesting content like this. So tell me a little bit more about this list that you've concocted. How long have you been creating this most intriguing list?
- [06:03]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Yeah, it was something that the athletic has done before, and especially it's across different sports. I believe it's been done across different sports. I started doing it last year for us and I just, I really enjoyed it because like you said, it's not your average top 25 best players, top 25 best rookies. And like you said, we have all that. So it's a way to kind of mix it up a little bit. So heading into the women's college basketball season, we can take a look at players who maybe don't get the spotlight as the best player or for this and that, but because of their situation, whether a first year player transfer, just ready for a breakout year, coming back from an injury, those are the types of things that players in those situations make up this list.
- [06:48]
Zena Caida
So you did this list last year and I'm curious, how did those players pan out? Were they the most interesting players of the upcoming season?
- [06:57]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Well, I have to go back and look at the entire list, but I picked Angel Reese as my number one most intriguing. It's pretty safe to say that she lived up to expectations.
- [07:04]
Zena Caida
She 1000% and more lived up. Exactly. And more. Okay, so sounds like you're good at this. This is awes. I think that we're gonna be in good hands here breaking down this list. So how do you actually put something like this together to find out who's most intriguing? Because yeah, obviously Angel Reese is intriguing from a player perspective, but she actually ended up being more intriguing even just from a personality and essence of a player perspective. So how do you assess who's the most intriguing?
- [07:33]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Well, it's like I mentioned previously, I take a look at kind of the entire landscape of women's college basketball. Obviously there's the big name players that you can't avoid that, you know, kind of cross over different, different lists, like a Caitlin Clark. But then you look at, you know, like I said, players coming back from injuries, like Paige, Paige Beckers. Okay, okay. Ali was, was in my thought process though. She didn't make. Make this list. She's coming back from injury for Kansas State. And then you look at first year players, you look at players going into new situations after. After coming through the transfer portal. So different things, right? Players that maybe could have a breakout year. Like a Cody McMahon who we saw come on strong at the end of last season and really just had an amazing freshman year overall for Ohio State. So those are the different types of factors that I weigh. And then I write down a bunch of names. I read a lot too, like other articles and stuff, just, you know, there's a lot of ground to cover. And then I start with just maybe like 50 names. And then before I even start writing, I just go through the list and take out one here, take out one here, weigh this one against the other. Then I write why they're intriguing and the last thing I do is rank them.
- [08:44]
Zena Caida
Wow, that's intense and that's awesome. It's intense.
- [08:50]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
It takes a while. It takes about a week to put together, but it's worth it. It's a lot of fun.
- [08:55]
Zena Caida
Yeah, that's super cool. So also shout out to everyone writing and giving insight into these players because that does help when you know more than just stats. Right. When they're more than just players and you're being able to see them within the context of their entire. So, okay, well, let's dive into this list. I want to first start out like I'm going to go actually opposite the way that the story kind of lays out because I want to first talk about the ones that we kind of know to look for. Right. And you see them kind of scattered out, I would say outside of the top five, Az Fudd definitely dropping in there as a player to be noticed and probably because she pairs up with that number one Paige Becker's on your list. Right. And what they could potentially do as a guard duo, as a backcourt at for UConn. But looking at that, that top five list, Paige Beckers, Haley Van Lith, Angel Reese, Caitlin Clark and then Cody McMahon. I talked to Chantelle Jennings just recently about those three, particularly Paige Beckers, Haley Van Lith and Angel Reese as well as Ken Clark. But talk to me a little bit about Cody McMahon. You just referenced her a little bit about that freshman season where she really just starlight. Right. Just absolute like spotlight on her ability to be a star for Ohio State. And coming into her sophomore season, the game's going to slow down for her. She's going to have a little bit more of poise to her game. What are you most excited to see out of her.
- [10:19]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Well, number one, you know, the core of Ohio State is returning. You know, J.C. sheldon's coming back, so that's. That's a solid team right there. And then you take McMahon, who played anything like a freshman last year, she was the second leading scorer on the team. 15 point, 15.1 points per game, 5.5 rebounds, I believe. So definitely, you know, put up the stats. She was the Big Ten freshman of the year and definitely in the running for freshman of the year overall. But I think it's her, like you said, her maturation. And we saw that especially during the NCAA tournament. And, you know, she bumped up her points per game. She really came on strong and really helped Ohio State reach the Final Four. But she's just so fun to watch and exciting. She's just the way she can, you know, create shots and score and then you add her personality factor to that, and I just think she's really ready for the spotlight. She reminds me a lot of Angel Reese in that way. And just there's a lot there that, you know, a lot of energy, a lot of emotion on the court. And I think with Sheldon, this being her final year, we're going to see a baton being passed in Ohio State, at Ohio State, and it's going to be fun to watch.
- [11:31]
Zena Caida
Yeah, coach Kevin McGuff has nothing but high marks for a freshman. He said similar. Same thing to you, that she did not play like a freshman. Right. You would not have expected her if you were just looking at film and you saw the way that she worked through the offense, how quickly she picked up their different schemes, not freshman like, behavior at all. And so it's really cool that she's being able to come back and just have that confidence and that comfort and being in that role and being able to step up for her team even more. I want to hear a little bit more about Paige Becker's from you particularly, because, yes, everyone has an opinion about, yeah, her coming back and how big this is. But I want to hear from your perspective, you know, what made you pick her as her the number one option.
- [12:15]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Well, it's not just who she is as a player. Right. We already know the star factor. We already know the talent. For me, it's the injury history and just how tough her college career has been so far, unexpectedly because of that. And you know how great a player can be coming back from those types of injuries. I mean, tearing your ACL is no joke. And, you know, having to come back from that at a young age and excel and still Remain when of those top players in the country is quite a feat and I think there's a lot of expectations there for her. I think she can handle that pressure and I would not be surprised if she lived up to that. I just want to see her healthy because a healthy Paige Beckers is good for women's college basketball. And I just think it's part of the story that can't be ignored. It's just part of the whole UConn and her own narrative going forward, especially this season with that roster and how well they could do this year. There's a lot there, more than just than, you know, page four.
- [13:15]
Zena Caida
And that's a really good point about just like the heritage around UConn, it makes sense that you've got two of her teammates on this list as well with Az Foot and Aaliyah Edwards. Chantelle Jennings and I talked about Aaliyah as well. Just being intriguing, that Canadian aspect and even just looking at the WNBA trying to expand into Canada and just the love that they had for that one game that they had this past season in Toronto and Aaliyah Edwards just really blossoming as someone that had to hold down the fort while these injuries were happening within the paint. And a lot of the. I mentioned this, but I feel like a lot of the attention had been on the backcourt and possibly the fact that the backcourt was as injured as they were with Nika Mule and Az Fudd and Paige Beckers all experiencing what they experienced. And I feel as a result of that, her impact on that team was underrated and not understated as well.
- [14:10]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
I agree. Her effort and reliability in the paint just, I mean that's part of what resulted in her breakout season. And I think there just was a confidence factor that maybe had been missing before. And then when she became that player that go to player that needed player, she lived up to it. And I think that gave her some renewed confidence going forward. And I mean she won't have to carry as much of the load, but she's. She's the front court. She's the front court go to going forward, no doubt.
- [14:41]
Zena Caida
Well, now let's pivot a little bit and talk about the two SCs. That is South Carolina on the east coast and Southern California on the West Coast. You have two players from each program ranked on this list. The first one, number 20, Juju Watkins, a true freshman who we haven't even seen played on the collegiate level but has more commercial deals than, I mean, half like WNBA players. She has such star power Such a highlight on her as a potential game changer for sc. And there's a lot of accolades to go with that. Gatorade Player of the year, McDonald's All American. So there's a lot of excitement around her. And then on the other side, the number 19, Raven Johnson, she isn't a true freshman. She's coming in, she's going to be a sophomore, but she is also someone that we haven't gotten to see a lot of because South Carolina had really good backcourt, right? They had Destiny Anderson, they had Isiah Cook, they had guards that really held down the fort. And so we haven't seen a ton of Raven Johnson, but now she's able to take the reins. I'm curious as to, you know, what you see in these two and what made you think that they were the most intriguing.
- [15:52]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Yeah, I mean, I mean, you said all that needs to be said about Watkins. I mean, her accolades at the high school level are incredible. I mean, expectations incredibly high going into the season as a, as a freshman with usc. Lindsey Gottlieb has to be so excited. She's a program changing type of player. She really is. And usc, USC was like a little bit of under the radar team last year. And she can just, I feel like if she plays well, if her game translates well, which I think it will, she can take them to the next level because they're on the cusp of something, they're on the cusp of putting it all together. And then Raven Johnson as a sophomore. I mean, I keep saying this, but Dawn Staley is essentially, has essentially handed Johnson the keys to the backcourt. It's her backcourt now without Ziya Cook there. Destiny Henderson left a year ago, so it's pretty much it's Ravens going forward. And she has said in the off season and off season interviews that she's more than ready and she's, she's more than capable of taking on that role. I mean, she's an all around point guard. She can hit three, she facilitates, she's scrappy on defense. She can push the pace. She loves pushing the pace. And then, you know, you add, you know, Brie hall is already there and Tahina Popeo to like round out the backcourt and hit from three, hit from the perimeter as well. Dawn Staley should be excited about her backcourt. I know it was a huge question going in last season, but she's not going to have to worry about that this year, I don't think.
- [17:35]
Zena Caida
I think both of these coaches are going to Be incredibly excited for what these players are going to be able to do to just step into this role. Raven Johnson just being able to finally show off what she's capable of doing. It's interesting because in the world of the transfer portals, Raven Johnson may have gone to another school. Right. And would have been able to find another opportunity to step up and show up. And what she got was an opportunity to be in the shadows, but really get to learn from amazing guards in Zaya Cook, in Destiny Henderson, and be within that lineage that Don Salee has. And you can see that there's a culture there of I'm not going anywhere. I'm gonna learn and I'm gonna wait for my spot or my turn. And now it's really exciting that Raven Johnson gets her turn this early in her career for South Carolina.
- [18:21]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Yeah. And why would you want to transfer out of Dawn Staley's program? I mean, have we seen that? Have we seen a lot of.
- [18:28]
Zena Caida
We haven't seen that yet.
- [18:29]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
No, I don't feel like we have. Because, you know, she is one coach. We've already seen it so many times recently, especially just how she prepares players not only to excel at this level, but for the pro level as well, to find success there in some way, shape or form. So, yeah, Raven Johnson's more than ready.
- [18:52]
Zena Caida
Well, South Carolina isn't a program you would want to transfer out of, but there are some programs where people do move and you have a few of those listed here on the list. One that really stuck out to me. I really want to talk about Diamond Johnson. That was an interesting switch out because she's had a few schools, right. Started at Rutgers, NC State, and now at Norfolk State. Talk a little bit about her trajectory through those teams and then now where she's at at Norfolk State and what you're anticipating there, she's been kind of.
- [19:23]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
And we see this with players now with more transferring and then the extra COVID 19 year of eligibility, the flexibility to the. To really find your place. For some players, that's a big motivating factor. And I think that was hers. And it's not often that you see a player from a major, a Division I player from a major program transfer to a mid major. In fact, I don't know the last time that I've seen that, me personally. But the landscape in women's college basketball is changing. So we may see more this more and more because mid major programs are leveling up. But Norfolk State, I mean, you know, hbcu, you know, they made The NCAA Tournament last year, I believe they lost to North Carolina in the first round. And then you bring in a player like Johnson who has said that she. She has never had. She's having a lot of fun. She's never felt more comfortable. I just. I don't know that the fit with NC State really, really worked. There just seemed to be a lack of cohesiveness with that team. Last year, she was the leading scorer with 12.1 points per game and the leading leader in assists as well. But it was kind of an underachieving team. And to see her go somewhere where I feel like she can add to that program and maybe even help them make a deeper postseason run this year, I mean, really could be a perfect pairing. And I'm excited to see. See how that plays out.
- [20:54]
Zena Caida
Her transfer was completely out of her conference, and that's a completely new market to play in, or I would say market, but basically she's going up against people that really haven't seen her game yet. And so that is really exciting, potentially, her flourish. Right. And her being able to capitalize on a completely new conference and new competition. And we'll see how, you know, Norfolk State capitalizes on her skills that she clearly has and just hasn't been able to really found a home for yet.
- [21:24]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
I was just gonna say, and I think what I like to see with players especially, you know, it's not always about getting to. I mean, obviously that's part of it, getting to the NCAA Tournament and, you know, winning a championship. But for some players, it's also about finding that right fit. And then the other part comes into play. When you're having fun, when you're with the team you want to be with, when you. When you can thrive in the system. And I think that to see her find a place where she's found that, it just. Just makes me happy for her going forward.
- [21:55]
Zena Caida
Yeah, you always want to make sure that a player finds a home where it makes sense for them and they feel good and they can flourish. Because I. I get so sad when I think about how many players. So even some that, you know, I played with that. If you don't find the right coach, if you don't find the right system, if you don't find the right environment, your skills can just go to waste. Right?
- [22:17]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Makes a difference.
- [22:18]
Zena Caida
It makes such a difference. And coaches can genuinely, genuinely can recruit a player for a particular skill and then not capitalize on it and change that player's game. That impacts confidence, that impacts just willingness and aggression. And tenacity and everything about the way that you approach the game. So it is really exciting when you see people find a home and look like they're in position to really finally get to shine. So shout out to Diamond Johnson. Definitely excited for her. I think I feel the same way about Lauren Betts, who's also on your list. Her transferring from Stanford to ucla. And most of us that watch Stanford, you think Cameron Brink. Right. And Cameron Brink's on your list too. But you think about in terms of the size and especially with Haley Jones, before she went to the league, like those were the stars and the whole sisters. And you think about those players, right? And then There's Lauren Betts, 6, 7, rim protector, rim, like rim runner Lauren Betts, that has not really gotten a chance to shine. And she's staying in conference. People know what she's capable of, but she's staying in conference going down to ucla. I'm excited for that one particularly. I'm gonna keep. I definitely have an eye on for that one. This is a. A major find, I think. And the. There's very rarely six, seven players. Right. And you look at the next level, the pro level, and how valuable. Someone of that size that's also agile like a Lauren Betts that's also got good defensive presence like Lauren Betts, like how valuable that can be.
- [23:53]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Yeah. I think Corey Close is super excited to have Betts. I mean, this is a great fit. It is not that going to Stanford was. I don't think it was the wrong choice, but, you know, you're going into situation where there's already a crowded front court and that's really what limited her playing time. You know, the rotation just didn't give her an opportunity to really settle in.
- [24:17]
Zena Caida
Oh, and Fran Belepi. I forgot. I didn't even mention. Yeah, like, there was a very crowded front court and they were solid. They were solid. Yeah.
- [24:25]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Yeah. And I mean, we saw moments where she just kind of, you know, took over. She had a career high 18 points and six boards, I think. I think in the second game of her. Of her career. So we know what she's capable of. She just, I think, needs a chance to do that in a. In a program that needs those skills and needs them now. And ucla, I mean, they're in need of a true center. They have some solid frontcourt players, but they don't really have that star. I think Lauren Butts can be that star for them. And they already have the backcourt in Kiki Rice and Charisma Osborne. So pairing her in gives them like this three headed monster. I think UCLA is going to be scary good this year for sure. But yeah, I think it was a smart, a smart decision on her part and a really, really big get for UCLA.
- [25:21]
Zena Caida
Well, let's stay in the PAC 12. I want to talk about Charlize Ledger Walker at Washington State. So we remember that very sad ending for Washington State early in the NCAA tournament. Went down to Florida Gulf coast and it was like everyone was rooting for them. Even if, you know, even if you were in the PAC12, you were just rooting for them because it was such a last minute burst for them to even get there. And she was a major part of it. You've got her on the list as one of the most intriguing. Why is that?
- [25:53]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
I love her game. She reminds me so much of Kelsey Plum. I just see a lot of like dog in her, you know what I mean? Like, like fight, like, like swag and can. Can shoot the lights when she's on. And what a fun story Washington State was last year and I'm not gonna lie, I jumped on the bandwagon for sure. I picked them to beat fgcu. But of course like you just mentioned, they did not. But part of that is because a lot of the scoring fell on her shoulders and they need somebody to help kind of take the pressure off so to speak. And I think they got that Beyonce B. Great first name by the way is not on my list though. I was considering her. She came from, she transferred from Idaho and I mean she's a scorer as well and she's going to be able to give Lego Walker some help in the backcourt but man, she's just Lego. Walker's is so fun to watch and I think washing so combined with Washington State story from last year and I think that's going to carry over this year because they had a lot of same players returning and yeah, it's competitive Pac12 this season especially. But I think Washington State's right up there there with the top, I don't know, five, five, six teams right now and she's a big part of the story and I'm interested to see what she does going forward and how she can maybe raise her WNBA stock a bit higher. So we'll see because there's going to be more eyes on her this year for sure.
- [27:36]
Zena Caida
Yeah, there's something in the water in that northwestern quadrant with the guards and the swag that you're talking about. I definitely have enjoyed. I think that's when I picked up on them. It was. Was during the Pac12 tournament and seeing Lego Walker just being a dog, as you mentioned. D A W G, by the way. Yes. Well, I don't wanna go through the full list'cause I wanna encourage people to go read it. It's super, super interesting and it is not as intuitive as you would think in terms of like, okay, sure, we've got lists of top best players, but these are the most intriguing ones. These are the ones that are probably gonna have the most interesting storylines to follow. So definitely go read that article. I wanna close this out by asking you. She's not prepared for this, folks, so we'll see what she says. But I do wanna ask you, if I had to ask you. Intriguing coaches. Yes, intriguing coaches. The most intriguing coaches. I'm assuming Adon Staley will be at the top of that list. But any that stick out to you that you're like, hmm, I'm very curious to see what their season is going to be like.
- [28:41]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
I think Corey Close is. Is underrated. Um, I think this year, like I said earlier, with the team she has going in, I think UCLA is going to have a really good year and she so deserves it. I love Lindsey Gottlieb at USC. I know I'm kind of being a Pac 12. I see fan right now, but you know who else I like is Vic Schaefer. And I at Texas. I loved him at Mississippi State, but he's just. He's so in for his players. And the way his players talk about him, you know, they just love this guy. And he loves him right back tenfold. He champions them. He, you know, he raises awareness about his players. He wants you to know why they're good. Why should be talking about them. I mean, we can say what we want about Don Staley and Kim Mulkey and Gino Auriemma, because we know them. Right? But some of these other coaches, I feel like, do deserve some. Some shout outs as well.
- [29:46]
Zena Caida
Yeah, for sure. When you talked about Vic Shaver, he gives me the same vibe of Kevin McDuff at Ohio State as far as, like, advocating for his players. And that's actually a perfect transition to my. Today's off the script. For today's off the script, I just want to shout out to Louisville's Jeff Waltz, head coach of the women's basketball team there. He has recently called out reporters, broadcasters, just news organizations in general, to talk about gambling more within women's college basketball. He thinks that if people talk more so about gambling, knowing the lines and getting people to actively bet on games, more people will be more interested in women's college basketball. I think that is a very real point. When you look at what fantasy has done for NFL, there are people that do not watch NFL games whatsoever. But because they play fantasy, they are engaged, they are paying attention. We see what Taylor Swift has done for Travis Kelce in the NFL. There are tons of people that do not watch the NFL that just because Taylor Swift's a part of it, they are now buying jerseys and engaging and tuning in. And so if there is something that's already existing, which is sports gambling, and we know it's a billion, potentially could be trillion dollar business, why not have women's basketball fans more engaged by letting them know this is what's going on and engaging people that probably aren't even paying attention to women's basketball by getting them involved this way as well. I know there's a lot of sensitivity around gambling, there's a lot of thoughts around gambling. But knowing that this is now endemic to sports, it's a part of sports, there's no way to get around it. It's not going to go away anytime soon. It makes sense for women's basketball to lean into that. And it's true. I agree with Jeff Waltz in saying knowing the betting lines, it's strange that before NBA games, before NFL games, before college football games, before men's college basketball games, betting lines are discussed. Very rarely, if ever have I ever heard a betting line said for women's college basketball game other than maybe during the NCAA tournament. And it should not be just then. And that's one of the things that he called out. And I, I'm curious. I mean, NCAA season officially starts November 6th. And so sportsbooks could get on this early, get on this now, before March, right? Don't have to wait until the NCAA tournament to start posting odds on women's basketball. Get consistent with it now and get fans used to it now or people that don't bet on women's basketball now, get them used to it now and then hopefully that will translate into something called the WNBA season. That's how that works. Continue to grow upon that. So that's my quick little off the script for today. We'll see what sportsbooks do this season, but we'll also see pay attention to what the broadcasters are doing as well and what people are doing online as well in the social media spaces. Well, thank you, Lindsay, for joining me today and talking about our most intriguing players. I am very curious. I just, I feel like you're going to be 2 for 2. After Angel Reese and now with Paige Beckers, I feel like you're probably going to be 2 for 2. It is without a doubt going to be an incredibly exciting and just exhilarating season. There's so many cool, like cool like as in like swaggy and fun to follow players, but also just really talented players right now within the ncaa. And there is. There's never been more of a platforming of them than now. And so we'll have a great opportunity to see it all. But thanks for joining me.
- [33:29]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Thanks for having me.
- [33:29]
Zena Caida
It was fun, of course. All right, y'all, well make sure to read that article on the Athletic and also subscribe if you haven't already. Wherever you get your podcast, we appreciate you tuning in to the Athletic women's basketball show. Shout out to our sponsor, Michaela Globe Ultra. For now, I am Zena Kaeda with the Athletic encouraging you to continue. Keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game. That's the only way we're going to make it grow. All right, until next time.
- [34:03]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
As we.
- [34:03]
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- [34:29]
Zena Caida
Merging of trusted intelligence into a unified experience. Imagine collaboration amongst teams and across continents. Imagine an empowered ecosystem designed to deliver actionable insights that inspire growth and sustainability. That's the power of the Connect Industrial Intelligence platform to help you see further innovate faster, accomplish more. That's the Connect effect.
- [34:54]
Lindsey Dark Angelou
Learn more at thatstheconnecteffect.com@energy trust of Oregon, we understand that energy isn't just what happens when you flip a switch, it's what happens afterwards. It's a home that can provide both shelter and peace of mind. It's a business that can run more efficiently and keep their dream alive. And it's communities that can thrive today and flourish tomorrow. That's energy. And that's why we partner with local utility companies to help you save energy and lower costs. For cash incentives and resources that can help power your life, visit energytrust.org.