← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
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- [00:00]
Zena Kaita
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- [03:34]
Ben
Summer is.
- [03:34]
Sabrina Ionescu
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- [07:15]
D
Yeah, I mean, before the game, Cheryl Reef had said Barclays was great, but this is going to be even better. And that's the kind of thing that a coach says, you know, to hype up her team, hype up her fans. And I got to be honest, Cheryl was not overselling the Target Center. This place was absolutely buzzing. You talk about an arena where it just feels like the fans are on top of you. It's a little bit narrower than Barclays Center. It's just a purely basketball arena. This is where the Lynx play. This is where the Wolves play. And the fans are just absolutely into it for the full length of the game. I mean, it was so loud. Everybody was into the white out. Even the ones who weren't wearing the specifically gifted white T shirts from the Minnesota Lynx had their own white that they were wearing to the game. Like Justin Jefferson from the Minnesota Vikings was There rocking his white short shirt courtside, you know, and I just could not get over how much electricity was in that building, Especially having come from Barclays, where it was, you know, enormous crowds, enormous energy. The type of finish that we got in Game one that just, you know, culminated in that ridiculous experience. To have that replicated in Target center, and then to also have just the buzz and the noise from the fans who were just non stop cheering for the first 39 minutes and 59 seconds of this game, right up until that shot that we'll talk about later. I just. I don't think I've experienced anything like it. Like, this is an arena that is designed for basketball. I don't think they host concerts there. And it was just very cool to be a part of, you know, WNBA history in a sense, because this is a place that has hosted a lot of finals games, not so much recently. It's been since 2017. But they know their basketball, they know what to do, and they were fantastic.
- [08:50]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. And it was replicated, as you mentioned, the game was as crazy as the energy within the building. And I just want to say we. I was out there with our social media person, Ashley on the concourse as we were doing some. Some work with AT&T, hanging out with the fans, getting to know them, playing a fun game called Drawing Conclusions. We actually just posted that content today, so definitely check it out. It was so much fun getting to know the Lynx fans even before they got into the building. Shout out to all of the people with the sequin jackets. I don't know where y'all got that, but I saw them kind of scattered throughout the bowl. Beautiful sequin jackets. There was a lot of cool style going on around the game. But beyond the energy being replicated, the vibe of the actual game, the highs, the lows, the runs, the slows, everything felt very similar to game one of this series. Yet some of the roles were reversed. Before we go into the details of that, I was stressed. My heart rate was through the roof. Ben, you've watched a lot of crazy games. Did you feel the same way? Because I. I couldn't take it.
- [09:55]
Ben
I mean, I felt like this was very similar to Game one, and so it kind of had all the fun and madness that Game one had, right? And there a number of things I would point to. Starting in the very first quarter and the first timeout that was taken by Sandy Rondello, it was 14 to 5 Minnesota at that first time out. When Sandy Brondello took it, Cheryl reeve in game one took a timeout at 14:5 with the new York Liberty leading. It wasn't. It was an eight point game at halftime in game one. This was an eight point game at halftime here with almost an identical score. Just one point more for each team. Like the beats of this game felt very similar to me. Now, I should say that afterwards post game, we asked a number of different players, different people in the press corp if they felt it was similar. Brianna Stewart downplayed that notion that it felt like game one. John Claude Jones, however, was, you know, more in line with, I think, so many media members who covered this game and said, yeah, it felt a lot like game one. Just the script was flipped on the other side. So, yeah, a lot of similarities, I think, between the first game and the third game and some amazing shot making down the stretch. And you know, you talk about being stress Cena. You know, I think like players, we all learn from experience. Right. And I think it was nice to experience game one and then two games later have this game just to, I don't know, kind of know what to expect as we headed down into crunch time here.
- [11:13]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. It kind of felt like listening to a new song and recognizing the beat and you're like this, this feels familiar. It's not the same song, but I feel like someone sampled it. Okay. Feel like someone's trying to rejuvenate it here. But that's exactly what happened at target center. We. It was unbelievable. But particularly where I want to start the shot, the Sabrina Unescu shot. This was one of the most deflating performances in terms of being able to put that shot in at the last seconds of the game. The way that the hands of Minnesota Links fans that were up in jubilation, collapse on top of their heads, on their shoulders, on their chests, even just out of shock, stunned. I cannot believe she just hit that shot. Sabrina, I want to set this up because if you saw that last play of the game, you would have thought that Sabrina Unescu was cooking all night. But little did some people know, she actually was struggling to find some ingredients to get things going, set the scene a little bit about how Sabrina Iescu was playing up until this point.
- [12:28]
D
Yeah. So earlier in the day, Sabrina Unescu was named second team all wnba, which really high honor, you know, one of the top 10 players in WNBA maybe could have been the first team all WNBA. That's something that her coach, Danny Brandello suggested, something that Sab was clearly thinking about on her own. But you know, that's a little bit of context heading into the game. That that award had been announced and Brianna Stewart had also been named first team. All wnba, but not unanimous as some might have predicted. Anyway, so we start the game and Kayla McBride is doing an absolutely phenomenal job defending Sabrina Unescu just all up in her airspace, coming off screens, chasing her off ball, denying her, preventing her from even getting involved in the action, let alone, you know, getting good looks for threes or getting into the paint. And it was just the Liberty basically had to play four on four. Like there was just a lot of action being dictated by Stewie and Jacquel Jones. Leonie Fibich did a lot of shot creation as well. So it just wasn't as involved for Sabrina as you might expect considering she is the lead guard for the New York Liberty. So for the first half, she's only one of four from the field.03 from three point range. Just again, not the type of volume contributions that you would expect from Sabrina Nescu. But game wars on starts to wear down the defense a little bit. Kayla McBride had to play a lot of minutes for the link. She ends up playing 38 minutes on the night. And considering how much of that is just running after Sabrina Nesco off ball starts to wear on you. And then the minute you see a little bit of slippage, that's when Sabrina pounces. So, you know, you've got the drive into the paint and then a little dump off to Jonquill Jones. And then, you know, Kayla McBride and Nafeesa Collier kind of misplay a switch. And all of a sudden Sabrina has like maybe three feet of space on the wing to take a three pointer. And that one I thought was going to be the dagger because it puts them up four with just about a minute to play. And, you know, the links come crawling back. And then final play of the game, Ben can give us a little more insight about what was actually drawn up in the huddle that Liberty wanted to run. But you know, it ends up being Sabrina Unescu just putting the ball in her hands, deciding, I'm the one that's going to take this shot. I am capable of taking this shot. And lo and behold, she makes the shot.
- [14:42]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. And I love the irony of you using the word pounce, considering she did this against the Lynx. Ben, walk us through the actual shot, because Sabrina did just reference the shot that happened at 55. 56 seconds left on the clock puts the liberty up 77 to 73. And you're like, okay, like, this is it. It's going to be really hard to get two buckets out of the links in 55 seconds. But they wanted the last shot. Sandy Brondello said that they wanted the last shot. How do they do it?
- [15:18]
Ben
I mean, it was ended up being just Sabrina Unescu, the only person on the New York Liberty team to dribble the basketball on that final possession. She inbounds the ball, she throws it to Leonie Fiber, she gives it right back to her. And then you start to see a little bit of dummy actions. It seemed like John Claude Jones briefly came up and set a screen and then kind of retreated back towards the rim. And then it was Sabrina UNESCO just kind of dancing on the perimeter. She ended up taking nine dribbles. She wasn't sure initially whether she used her left or her right hand to create some space. But she hits this 28 foot step back three pointer over Kayla McBride. You know, had she had already created enough separation certainly for her and she had a shot, you know, frankly that she said afterwards that she has hit thousands of times before. And it was striking because she not only said that she has hit that shot in practice many times before. It's the kind of shot she does take in practice. She takes in off season workouts. She takes, you know, in pre game warm ups as well. But Sabrina Nescu also talked about hitting that shot in her mind, right. She talked about the importance of visualization and that she visualizes moments like that the night before games, day of games, before games. And so that was a play that it kind of, you know, she had replayed, I guess in her head even before doing it. But there is such a difference too between doing it in practice, doing it, you know, in your own head as you see it, and then doing it on the biggest stage. Right. Like that shot is so much more than just one three pointer. It is, you know, arguably we'll see if they win the series, but it's arguably the biggest shot in New York Liberty history if they go on to win this series. I think you have to make it past teaspoons half court shot from the 99 finals and say that it has passed that. But in the short term it is certainly right up there. And it is also for Sabrina Nescu, like it's just like the manifestation of all the hard work you put in, right? Like you live your whole life, you work your whole life to put yourself in a position to hit a three pointer in that moment, to have the ball in that moment and to hit the shot. And she did just that. And you know, I think she was obviously glowing. She Said on Thursday that she received more than 200 text messages after the game. And she tried to get back to each and every one of them. So much so that her husband was like, sabrina, you need to put the phone down. It's time to go to bed. And she was like, I need to keep responding. But her default response, you know, and I think, you know, everyone would appreciate this, her default response to people or the thing she responded most was one more. And I think that gives you a little bit of a peek into what Sabrina and Escu is thinking in between games three and game four.
- [17:38]
Sabrina Ionescu
What a protege of Kobe Bryant with that, with the Mamba mentality. We haven't finished. It ain't done. We got more business to finish here. And I mean, that's literally the whole Liberty's mantra when you think about that Teresa Weatherspoon shot. The Liberty have not won a WNBA Finals yet, and they are one game away. I appreciate you kind of putting that into the context of, you know, from history in terms of how big that shot was, comparing it to Teresa Weatherspoon shot. I also appreciate you talking about how much work and how much this is almost the manifestation of all the work that she's put in over the years. A lot of people didn't get to see the greatness that was Sabrina Unescu because the year that she was graduating, the year that she would have had a big tourney, NCAA tournament run, was a Covid year. And that was taken from us as well as from her. And so this is an opportunity to be able to showcase just how big of a shot maker, shot creator, a big moment kind of player she is to be able to do this on the world stage. It was unreal seeing the outpour of WNBA players, NBA players, NFL players, all types of athletes across the board giving her, you know, her praise. And Sabrina, I know someone asked the question to her, you know, is this the biggest shot of your career? And she said, yes, it absolutely was. Thinking about Sabrina's career, I would love to hear your perspective. I know I just heard Ben's. But thoughts on what this shot means for Sabrina Ionescu in terms of her career so far?
- [19:11]
D
You know, Sabrina's talked a lot about how she just feels like she missed out on the end of her college career, that if she were to win this year, she almost feels like part of it would be winning for Oregon because she didn't get a chance to do that when she was in college. And you think about this explosion of popularity that has traveled from college basketball into the Pros like, that was supposed to be Sabrina UNESCO. She was the one who was dazzling crowds when she was in senior in college. She was the one who had the flashy passes in the stack back three point range and was, you know, building this buzz. But because the tournament was canceled because she didn't get a chance, you know, to put on that March showcase and then the WNB season ends up happening in a bubble and that enthusiasm is muted. And even then she injures her ankle in the third game and it takes her maybe two years to get back to, you know, a sturdy like body again, to where she can play like she wanted to play before. And I think she's even said that this past offseason was the first one that she felt healthy enough to even jump off of both feet and actually work on that floater because you have to be able to jump one footed to make that floater. So she just lost so much time and lost so many benchmarks that would have helped her establish herself as that next great star. And I think we're just seeing a dream delayed. This is what Sabrina was supposed to be. This is the destiny that she was supposed to hit when she was the number one pick. And you know, there was some doubts that she would get back to this point, but this is the player that we were promised, right? And it's very cool to be able to see her deliver on this stage.
- [20:42]
Ben
I like that you brought up Oregon, Sabrina. I think that's really important here because, like she was playing in the green and yellow shoes, which she kind of said after Game 2, paid homage to the Oregon football team and the kind of grit and resilience they play with. And they obviously picked up a big win over Ohio State last weekend or they picked up a big win for all those who are not following college football. Two top five teams again that went down to the wire. Kelly Graves, for coaching college was at game three. He made the trip in to game three. And just to empty the notebook a little bit there, like, I had worked on a story, a profile of Sabrina that we ran on the site and in the New York Times ahead of the series. And I talked to Kelly Graves for it and he kind of mentioned of her that like Sabrina Unescu was the only player that he had ever coached who had been kicked out of Oregon's practice facility. And she lived across the street from the facility and she was kicked out on like night one because she was told in the recruiting process that the facility was going to be open 24, 7 and what she quickly realized was, no, no, no. It was actually open till around 11 o'clock. And that's when, like, the security staff went home and the custodial staff, like, finished cleaning the building. And she kind of. When I asked her about it, she basically was like, yeah, I kind of had to make friends with all the right people. And she kind of smiled and laughed and, like, that was how she got in. But Kelly Graves then told another story to me. That Monday practices at Oregon, you know, in the Pac12. So often they play two games, maybe on a Friday, Sunday. And for a lot of schools to take Mondays off and then go practice again on Tuesday. Well, Oregon actually would practice on Mondays, but the Monday practices were reserved basically for players who played 15 minutes or fewer during the weekend, basically to try and get them some live reps coming after those two games in which they maybe didn't play. And Sabrina always jumped in those scrimmages. Basically, they were for these reserves, they were for the bench players who didn't get in the games. But they just could not keep Sabrina off the court. And so, you know, she would jump in Monday after Monday after Monday, because she was basically just addicted, determined, like, unable to be kept off the court. And I thought that was so clear here. And it's again, like, just another story, a testament to her hard work. I mean, her high school coach told similar stories. Like, her sophomore year of high school, he gave her the key to the gym and told the janitorial staff, like, if she's in there at night, like, just let her shoot. Like, she doesn't need supervision. Like, she's just in there to get her shots up and you don't need to pull her out of the gym. Like, these are all the kind of Sabrina Nescu stories of lore. And just one more for you, you know, before maybe we change the conversation or move on. I don't know where you want to take it. You know, like, her high school coach, you know, kind of said that, like, ever since she was a kid, it did not matter to her whether she scored 30 points or three points, right? Just that, like, her team won a game. And she was so fixated on that first and foremost. And I included that in the story that I wrote last night after Game 3, because that was really fitting to me. It's just an anecdote and a little bit of perspective because, look, we said it like, Wednesday was not her best game, right? Like, she scores 13 points, she has, what, six assists, five rebounds? She didn't take a shot in the first quarter, like that's certainly not ideal, I think, for New York Liberty going forward. But like, in the end it would all worked out. And the thing that she cared about more than I think even the heroics was just getting that win. And obviously, you know, she hits that shot and plays such a big role in them playing.
- [23:58]
Sabrina Ionescu
I love these anecdotes because it is the perfect testament to how these players separate themselves as the greats. You can see a ton of amazing, talented, athletic, capable players on the college level, but it's these type of stories you constantly hear about the ones that end up in the history books. And I think that that's a perfect estimate to where Sabrina is going and at least where I think she's going. And just what a shot like that, what it takes to be able to create a moment like that on the same breadth. There's another person, another history maker, another great that is alongside her. That absolute showed out against the Links. And I think a lot of people were waiting for this level of game out of Brianna Stewart, AKA Stewie. There was, there had not been a Stu York type of game just yet. I would say this off season a game in which she is capable of showing all of the varieties and ways that she can score, all the varieties of ways that she can defend and just alter everything that's going on in the court. And that's what was on display in Game three. Sabrina, I'm going to you, in what ways did you see Stewie impose just dominance over the Lynx in Game three?
- [25:19]
D
Yeah, you know, we didn't see this play live because Stewie was on the bench and we're sitting in our media seats. But there was a clip that surfaced on ESPN during the broadcast of Brianna Stewart just telling her team, and I think it was when they were down 69 to 71 in the fourth quarter. We are not losing this effing game. Except she didn't say effing and it was just kind of representative of the way that she took the team and just put them on her back and was like, all right, you know what, we're close enough. We're, we're right there. I'm just going to make sure we get over that hurdle. And you know, you looked at the Liberty and they were in this double digit hole for a lot of the game. They trail by 10 in the third quarter. And there's Stewie, who scores 13 consecutive points for the New York Liberty, spanning the third and the fourth quarter. Just variety of ways, you know, bullying her way to the basket, little bankers in the paint. Like, she hit a three during that stretch. She's creating some and ones. And just when it seemed like we just need a little lift to get past Minnesota, we can just get over that hump, we're going to break them. I know we can do it. I believe that we can make this happen. All of her teammates are talking about the confidence that she's pouring into them, that she knows we can get this done. And if they don't believe it yet, Stewie is going to prove it on the court first and make them believe it just by putting it into existence. So it was. I mean, Stewie is going to go down as one of the greatest players of all time. Right? Like, we're talking about the resume of somebody who has four national championships in college, three Olympic gold medals, three world championships, two WNBA titles already, two WNBA MVPs, two Finals MVPs. I'm probably missing a lot of things, honestly, because I haven't even got into her international career, but she just wins. This is what Brianna Stewart does. She gets to the highest level. She wins games, she wins championships. And she was not able to do that last year. And there were a lot of personal circumstances that went into that. She just didn't play her best during the playoffs, like, for the entirety of the playoffs, actually, not just the finals. And I think she came into this season with understanding that she just had to be better in these situations for the New York Liberty. And what we're seeing is just a player who, at the peak of her power is just doing everything on a basketball court and making sure that if there is an opening, she is going to seize it for the New York Liberty.
- [27:35]
Sabrina Ionescu
What's crazy is that you're saying that she's doing everything on the basketball court. And Cheryl Reeves said she played well in games one and two. But in game three, she unlocked another level. Like Ben, how you would think that she's done everything out on the court, and then she goes another level. Like, how did this game differ than those before?
- [27:54]
Ben
Like, he scores the 13 points between the third and fourth quarter, 13 straight for New York in that stretch. And frankly, she picked on Alana Smith a little bit, who was dealing with a back injury and an ankle injury and saw a mismatch and took advantage. And I guess, like, that is what you were supposed to do in those high leverage moments that was so key in Stewie just kind of imposing her will. But what I was going to say is, I think as impressive as any of the on court success that she had in game three, it is that how many players with the resume that Sabrina just outlined would be okay with a teammate, like, having the moment at the end of a game, right. Stewie does not touch the basketball on the final possession. It is the shot that if New York goes on to win the series, like, that is the shot that people are going to play the most, right? That is the shot that the series will be remembered for, barring some more craziness in Game 4. And look, maybe I just jinxed it, and we're bound to see some crazy games in game four and potentially game five. But, like, it is a testament to her as a leader and the kind of culture she has helped create in New York that, you know, she is as happy for sabrinascu as she would if she was going to hit that shot herself. Right? She's as supportive. You know, there's no negativity, there's no pouting. You know, there's no theatrics. Like, there's just like a genuine, again, happiness and joy for your teammates success. And that is coming from someone with the resume that Stewie has. And that is the kind of thing that is intangible that trickles down across the New York Liberty roster. You talk to other players and. And they all kind of credit Stewie's leadership for kind of helping to set that tone. You listen to Sabrina, you know, do her post game press conference. She reciprocated by basically being like, yeah, that shot was great, but we're not in that position if Stewie doesn't get us 30, right. And, like, have the second half that she does. That, I think was as illustrative of, like, where New York is at as any kind of on court success that Stewie or Sabrina had in game three is how, like, they are as happy for anyone else's success as they are happy for their own. And I think that frankly, more than anything else, obviously these are great players, but, like, not every star kind of has that attitude. And I think that's so, you know, that maybe is. Is the difference right now in New York this year versus, like last year, just, like, the connectivity, the trust, the chemistry, the familiarity with each other, like, I think it all manifests itself in those moments where, like, Stewie's kind of okay getting them to the finish line and then Sabrina having that moment. Yeah, I think that's something that, like, in talking to people new on New York, like, that was another thing that kind of came up this morning as we started reflect on game three, absolutely.
- [30:29]
Sabrina Ionescu
I think it's a common thread you see in those that differentiate themselves as true goats and leaders. Right. People that are absolutely happy with the win as opposed to the personal win. Right. The team win, understanding what's, what the assignment is, what is at stake. And that was very apparent in the post game presser with Brianna Stewart in which she knows we're not done yet. We've got one more game and they want to put themselves in a position to be able to clinch while here. So let's talk about the other side of the ball real quick. The links. This was the first game in the series so far that the links actually went up early and it felt like a little bit of a dynamic shift. But a lot of people would have predicted that this would happen because they're at home, they're comfortable, they're in front of their fans, and they also just recently lost game two. So they're coming out with a renewed sense of desperation and focus and wanting to get up early and throw the first punch, something they had not been able to do in the first two games. Sabrina, you mentioned this and you referenced this early they went up 15 points, but by half they allowed the New York Liberty to get within eight and then within one at the end of the third. 62, 61. What was working early for the Lynx that failed to continue in the second half.
- [31:51]
D
So I think the Lynx started off just really aggressive with their defense, you know, just pressuring up high, just in the grills of all the New York Liberty players. You saw so many possessions where the Liberty just were, you know, passing it along the three point line, unable to break the paint because of this activity at the perimeter that was just preventing them from getting any sort of flow on their offense. And then the Links are using that, you know, to create turnovers, to create offensive and offense in transition. And while, you know, they're able to stifle all of New York's movement, they were having just a great time on the other end, you know, with their cuts, with their flares, with all of that off ball action. And it was really the epitome of what Minnesota Links basketball has looked like at their best points during the course of the regular season. Just the flow on offense, the ball movement. I mean, they set a record for the highest assist percentage in WNBA history during the regular season. And then all of that just congestion and real physicality on the defensive end. And I don't necessarily think that led up at any point during the game. It was just that New York was able to Counter some of that aggressiveness with their movement and they were able to use their defense to stifle what Minnesota was working with offensively. I really do believe that if you were to make a checklist of everything Minnesota needed to do to win this game, close the rebounding gap, take care of the ball, force turnovers, stop New York small movement, they just basically hit everything. Brianna Stewart was able to get loose, but yeah, she's Brianna Stewart. And I'm not necessarily sure that Minnesota stopped doing the things that were working well at the start of the game so much as they put all of their energy into making this start as perfect as possible because of how the first two games started in New York. And maybe the energy just let go a little at the end. You know, the shots were a little bit short. If he's a Collier misses like a, a pretty easy like what looks like just a standard Nafisa Collier bunny in the paint. Down the stretch, Kayla McBride misses a layup, you know, where she gets a pretty good look past Jonquil Jones. Like these are all things that I think Minnesota will be perfectly happy with. The outcome of it just the ball has to go in and the ball didn't go in. And I'm, I don't necessarily think it was because Minnesota was doing anything differently down the stretch. It's just they just weren't making shots.
- [33:59]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. I could not believe how many layups at the end of the game. Little bunnies. I think about the fact Courtney Williams getting past Leo Feebich twice and on one of the missing at the rim and I was just like heart was breaking when you'd get past the trees and you've got wide open layup and you're like for it to pop, like pop off the rim is heartbreaking. Now I appreciate you saying if they went down the list and they looked at everything they they had, they pretty much did everything they were supposed to do. But there was one thing they just couldn't help and that. Ben, you referenced Alanna Smith dealing with some injuries, clearly not playing to the level she's capable of playing, not playing the minutes she typically plays. Played under 20 minutes, finished with two points. That is a big gap, you know, for the Lynx. How much of an impact did her absence on the court impact the Lynx's play throughout the night?
- [34:57]
Ben
It was ginormous. I mean she's an all, you know, WNBA defensive player this year. A big reason why Minnesota's defense has had the success that it has. You know, plus minus can be a stat that is A little bit. A little bit misleading at times. But Alanna Smith in game three, she played just under 20 minutes, and she was plus 20 overall. Myesha Hines Allen, off the bench, she played 18 minutes. She was minus 19. Like, in some ways, that's kind of the story, right, that, like, New York really did take advantage of those minutes when Atlanta Smith was not on the floor. Now, I should mention, of course, like, Stewie also took advantage in the third quarter of those minutes when Atlanta Smith was on the floor and hitting, you know, a three and a big and one over Smith. But, like, no, if she. I mean, she won't be 100. I think I feel pretty comfortable saying that after talking to LAN again on Thursday, like, who's of the mind, that she's just gonna continue to gut it out and play through whatever she's playing through and deal with her ankle and deal with her back, like, after this season. Like, he was kind of joking that her and the trainer have become close friends, even closer friends, all season long. And, you know, she seems to just be getting treatment on Thursday morning. And I think we'll continue to. To receive treatment for however long this series has to go. So that's just kind of the reality. What I think the impact is is, like, it puts a lot more stress on Minnesota's bench overall, and that was something else that Cheryl Reeve talked about. Like, they're going to need more out of their bench. Natisha Heideman does not score in Game three. Chetchy Sand Lasini, she makes both of her shots. I think Minnesota will probably need some more out of her. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Dorka Uhaus a little bit, who we talked about. You know, Sabrina and I talked to her this morning just about staying ready and what she's doing to kind of stay prepared. So I think those are all some solutions that, you know, Minnesota might have to lean on as this fourth game approaches.
- [36:42]
D
Yeah, Elena was really funny. She was saying that, you know, they're just going to have to drag me off the court. There's zero chance that I'm not playing in game four. And those are problems for future Atlanta to worry about. You know, I give her a lot of grief, but future Atlanta is going to have some things to deal with, you know, because not just the back, but the ankle that she was already dealing with in game one. But I'm glad that, like, you know, Ben brought up Zander Lassini and Dorka Juhas, because the thing that Alanna Smith does so well is that she Just rolls really fast to the rim. So when you're playing defense the way that New York is, with Jonquil Jones coming up to the level of the screen and out on the perimeter trying to contain these pick and rolls, Alanna Smith just shoots out of these screens. And so somebody has to be there and help, you know, to pick her up at the rim. And that's really hard to do, like, if you're JJ tracking back or if somebody else is going to come off the side. And even if it is, unless it's Stewie, like, that person is not going to have the sides, generally speaking, to contend with Alanna Smith and Maisha Heinz Allen just doesn't do that in the same way. And I don't know if Dora Yuhas can, frankly, because we just haven't seen much of her in this series. For whatever reason, she definitely has the size relative to her teammates on Minnesota. I thought it was interesting that Minnesota closed with a smaller lineup with Sandalusini and Collier at the 4 and 5 instead of playing another big because of how difficult those Maisha Hines Allen minutes had gotten, you know, over the course of the second half. But, yeah, that. That big rotation is just going to be such a crucial element because, you know, while Minnesota is struggling to find options there, like, you look at the New York side and Niara Sable is having her best game of the postseason at the same time. So that depth advantage is really tilting one way at this point.
- [38:19]
Ben
And how Minnesota closes like these quarters and uses their bench is really going to be telling in game four. Like, like, Cheryl knows that she needs, and she's talked about this, like, she needs to find times to get Kayla McBride and Bridget Carlton some rest. And Fee, I think, is going to play, I would say, 40 minutes or pretty close to it in, you know, game four. But, like, especially for some of those wings, she knows she needs to find time to spell them and just give them some time off. If you go down the box score, like Sabrina mentioned, all the things that Minnesota did really well. Yes, they lose the game in the fourth quarter because UNESCO hits the shot. But really, they lost this game at the end of each quarter. Right. With a minute and 20 to go in the first quarter, Bridget Carlton hits a jump shot. Minnesota's up 15aminute and a half later, going in between quarters one and two, they're up only 10 points. Go to the second quarter. Same kind of deal. Minnesota leads by 13 with 314 to go before halftime. What's the halftime deficit? Eight points go to the third quarter, same kind of thing. They're up by nine with 123 to go. What happens at the end of the third quarter? They're up just a point. Like, all three of those quarters, they were terrible in the final couple minutes. And, like, if they close those five minutes, say, like, I just mapped out five minutes of game action, basically. If they close those five minutes and just play them net, even with New York, totally different game, right? But so often, like, ends of quarters, that's when you might be leaning on your bench more. That's when, like, you know, you just might have different rotations, right? Fatigue, mindset. And, like, those are the moments that those details really matter. And so for all the successes that Minnesota did have, if you go quarter by quarter, like, that's what really bit them here, right? Like, yeah, the ending is the ending, and Sabrina hits an amazing shot. But if they kind of handle their business and it's really hard, right? Basketball is a game of runs. We understand that. But, like, if they close quarters better than they did in game four, that can be as important as starting fast. The big challenge, though, is, and I think this is kind of the overarching theme of the series. New York has so many more ways it can win these games, whether that's playing, stepping up, whether that is style. Minnesota, I think, like, at this point, especially with Atlanta, Smith being a little dinged up, like, just the possibilities, right? The different ways they can win this series, it's still possible, but they. They're just fewer kinds of games that will allow them to. To win these games. They kind of need everything to go right. New York doesn't. And obviously, you know, 40 minutes away from a championship, like, you're doing anything you can, and it doesn't matter how pretty it is at this point, you just need to find a way.
- [40:47]
Sabrina Ionescu
It's a great point. I kind of see the players in the Minnesota Links program to be successful within the system of the Minnesota Links, right? They can find success within what they run, in the style in which they play. Whereas with New York, there's a lot more players that have their personal arsenals that can work within the New York liberal system. They can find their success and the way that they get to the basket, you know, get blocks, whatever, on offense or defense, more so out of their personal ability, as opposed to what the links can utilize. And I think that that's. That's a. Stylistically, that is something to look for thinking about the end of that game in the way that Sabrina Niescu was just kind Of, I don't want to say it yo yoing, but kind of yo yoing at the top of the key. I feel like that's significantly different than what Sheryl Reeves would have set up. Right. I feel like there would have been a more executed X's and O situation in on the link side versus a New York Liberty. I mean, it's so funny that we're talking about this because when you think about AAU teams from New York, very New York Liberty esque. When you think about AAU teams from Minnesota, very Minnesota esque. And I mean, Minnesota fundamental, they're gonna run their stuff. They're gonna be, you know, by the bush for the most part. New York is going to be crafty, they're going to be creative, they're going to be. They're going to design some things out there. And it's interesting that that that showed up stylistically in both games. Sabrina, I want to ask you about Nafisa Collier because I was tired watching her. I was exhausted watching her go up and down this court making unbelievable cuts, beating her man in transition. I mean, it was surreal how much she was all over the court. When you think about defending her and also trying to score against her with how hard she defends and how physical she is in the paint, how would you rank her conditioning and her fitness level on her list of attributes that make her an elite player?
- [42:52]
D
It's interesting that you bring up conditioning because Sandy Brandello has talked about this as if he's a superpower almost, that she just never tires, she's always moving. And that's the challenge with her, is that you think you have her covered and then lo and behold, backdoor cut. Even, like for someone like Brianna Stewart, who got beat back to her by Nafisa Collier during that game, there's just a commitment to consistently making defense work, consistently making the offense work. Like she will be the best conditioned player on the court regardless of who the other nine players are. Like, that is Nafisa Collier's edge. And I think you're seeing it just manifest itself over and over again. Like Ben mentioned, she played 40 minutes in game three. She probably is not going to get off the court in game three for, like, in a do or die situation for Minnesota. And you don't really see her play suffer as a result. Like, yes, she missed the shot at the end of the game, you know, in game three. But I do believe that she still wants to be on the court for all those minutes. Like, she feel like she can perform at her best, even if she is playing the entirety of the game. And I don't know what she does, you know, to get in that kind of shape. I mean, we're talking about a player who is just about two years removed from having a child. Like, to have regained her level of fitness like that is just. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's something that Anissa Collier has managed to do and, you know, become a first team all WNBA defensive player of the year, second place MVP finisher in that span. And yeah, like you mentioned it, just when you were asking me what it would be like to try to score or defend a visa. Collier, like, I just, I feel physically, like taxed thinking about it. Just all of the effort it would take to try to contain like, she gets you in the paint and she, she's got her little up fix and she's going to turn over her shoulder and she has that beautiful little step through and she's so poised and composed and it seems like she is constantly moving at her own pace, but you have no idea what that pace is as a defender because she has her own unique sense of movement. It's just a really fun game to watch. And how lucky are we that we get to watch her go up against Brianna Stewart, who is again, equally impressive, just in a completely different way, that she controls the court.
- [44:52]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely, absolutely. It's just, it is fun to see them also throw around their bodies. Right. Like, these women are long, they look lanky, they look lean, but they're strong. Okay. This is some like straight up female women's strength, the kind that you can't quite see. It's not all cut up all the time, but they can throw some bodies around. And it was unreal seeing Nafisa Collier hold her own as Jonquil Jones is digging into the paint, trying to get to the basket. You know, Brianna Stewart doing the same thing. Nafissa Collier was absolutely holding her own. Now, I did say that the New York Liberty have a little bit more stylistically going. Don't get me wrong. I know that Nafeesa Collier definitely has her moves and she can get some things out of her bags. Courtney Williams, the same. But when you think about the overall team, there's a lot more players that score within the system, that score within what they run. One person I'm thinking about, Bridget Carlton, and I feel like there was a little bit of a revival in this game. It was nice to see her hit a few more shots than she has throughout the season. Went 2 for 4 from 3, 5 from 7, 5 for 7 from the floor and definitely helped in making that 3 point percentage for the links go up in the first half. Ben, thinking about the bench, you already mentioned some of the ways that their bench should step up. But what were your thoughts on Bridget Carlton's performance in this series and how can the links continue to maximize her going as a Game four?
- [46:18]
Ben
Yeah, I talked to her on Thursday morning and just kind of asked her about how she reflected on her game three. She kind of said like, not a lot changed for her compared to games one and two and some of the other games. She kind of just said like gotten a rhythm, got some good looks, made the first couple, you know, felt good overall. But she felt pretty confident heading into game three despite, you know, not shooting her best in the first couple games of the series and the last couple games of the Connecticut series as well. So, you know, she is definitely the kind of player who needs to, to play well and to make shots heading into game four. I mean, Cheryl Reeve all series long has kind of talked about how, you know, the players other than New York's Big three have stepped up. Leo, Phoebus, benijalaney, like these players have stepped up routinely and Minnesota needs consistent contributions from other players to step up and they need to contain some of those other players on New York as well. But yeah, I think Bridget Carlton will again be really important as game four approaches. But in terms of what happened schematically or what felt different for her, like she kind of said not much like she downplayed anything drastic really being done.
- [47:24]
Sabrina Ionescu
Do you agree with that?
- [47:25]
Ben
Yeah, I mean, I think it's more just a function of like, maybe it's comfort at home, but I think like it is one of those things of seeing the first couple go in, riding the crowds momentum. I mean Caleb McBride was hot like, like, you know, she had a couple just like quick trigger three pointers that went down and ignited the crowd. And I think you can kind of feed up that as a role player. I think Carlton got some good looks earlier in the series the same way that like, but I Jollaney got some good looks in game three that didn't fall. Like I think there was one three pointer especially. I remember if it was the second or third quarter, she was wide open in the right corner. I think New York was down 5 or 6 at that time. It would have been the kind of three that like, you know, creates a one possession game and she just missed it. Like sometimes it is as simple as you get A good look. You live with the look and sometimes it goes and sometimes it doesn't.
- [48:11]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, well, before we get to our predictions for the game for game four, I do want to get some added mentions. You just mentioned Kayla McBride. How dare we not discuss the unbelievable game that she had, you know, closing out for with 19 points, seven of 16, five or five, three pointers out of nine. She is the reason that things got hot. But I also believe that she got tired towards the end of that game for the reasons you discussed, Sabrina, Just the physicality and the exertion necessary to be able to play that level of defense on a Sabrina and to play 38 and a half minutes is a lot. She stood out to me as a good, a great performer for the Lynx. And then Niara Sablee on the other end of the ball stood out for me for the New York Liberty. Didn't play much, only 11 minutes. But I felt like she was getting. She was more aggressive to the ball was taken players on the dribble. I was like, all right, we like this, we like this version of knee. I just wanted to ask you guys quickly, like, who were some of the players that stood out for you on either side of the ball that we haven't touched on just yet?
- [49:18]
Ben
I mean, the Niara Sabali shout out is a great one. I thought what she did in the first half, just providing them with some energy. Her activity is. Is contagious, frankly. Sometimes, you know, she plays a little bit out of control, certainly. And like, I think the game gets a little fast for her. Like there was a. An inbounds pass. I want to say it was in the third quarter, maybe when she checked in. It was right after a timeout that was like, she just like caught it and was immediately trying to give it back. I want to say to Sabrina and just dropped the pass and like fumbled it. And it was an, like a turnover right after a timeout. Like, like that to me was just an example of game getting too fast for someone. But what she did in the first half, I think was really, really important for them, providing them a boost. And you mentioned the baskets. Like, you know, I'm not going to say those are shots that the New York Liberty staff wants her to take in that scenario, like when they're down double digits. But, like, they were timely, they were important. They went in and you know, I, I think more than anything, like, she has flashed the potential to people of like, like why she was a top 10 pick and like, what she can be in this league. She clearly has like, she is still young, she's still raw, working her way back from, you know, some injuries a couple years ago in college. But like, the upside is clearly there if her game continues to grow. So I think if you're a fan of Niara Savli or the New York Liberty, like, you come away excited by, by even the 11 minutes.
- [50:43]
D
Yeah. And just sticking with the German players on the New York Liberty, you know, Leo Fibich, not enough can be said about her what she has to do. Pressuring Courtney Williams, full court stopping, you know, Minnesota's offense right at the right at the source, you know, with her defense at the point of attack. I thought she had just a couple of really big plays on offense too. You think about that big Jonquil Jones three that cuts the lead from four to one down the stretch when it looks like maybe Minnesota has regained control of this. That comes off of a driving kick from Fibich. Just super, super steady. You know, to think that this is her first WNBA season. She really has just the poise for this moment.
- [51:21]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. And thinking about Jonquil Jones, I'll say this was very rare. Jean Jones not getting a double double, not quite having the night that she's typically having, but New York Liberty get the win anyways. Any thoughts on that going into game four on how the Liberty can maximize her a little bit better?
- [51:39]
Ben
I think it will just again be a point of emphasis for New York finding ways to get John Qual Jones shots in rhythm and not more importantly have stretches where she isn't touching the basketball. I mean, Sandy Vondella so often we say it on the show, talks about good to great, paint to great. It is like her favorite phrase though in this finals. It has been principles of play has been kind of her three word moniker that she's voiced over and over again. But you know, I think there are still stretches and I think we still saw them some in game three where like JJ can kind of float and you kind of forget that you have this six foot six, like do everything center out there. And I think, you know, as game four approaches again for New York, an emphasis on getting her involved early and kind of making her feel in the flow of the game and that way like, you know, good things happen when she has good games as the double double record proves out.
- [52:30]
Sabrina Ionescu
All right, well, hopefully maybe you'll have to use that double double record to influence what you think will happen in game four. Taking predictions, Sabrina, ladies first. What you think?
- [52:43]
D
All right, well, I picked the Liberty in five to start this series. And I've already changed enough of my predictions over the course of this playoffs. Case in point, I originally had the links to win, and I switched to New York, so we're going to hold still. You know, I think we've seen enough of the Liberty to know that they don't always put their foot down when they have a chance to close something out. You look at Games 3 against Las Vegas, you look at the way they handle those big leads in game one and Game two, I think Minnesota is just going to be super energized by this crowd once again eager to keep this series going. We saw Connecticut do the same thing against Minnesota in the last round. So I think. I think Minnesota has, you know, another. Another burst left in them, and we're going to be headed back to Barclays for game five.
- [53:28]
Sabrina Ionescu
Okay. Oh, I got thoughts on that.
- [53:32]
D
Minnesota played really well in game three.
- [53:34]
Sabrina Ionescu
Yeah, I agree. It was. I mean, Ben, I love the analysis of the end of quarter performances. Handle business early. Oh, I don't. I do not like how many times I could hear a coach tell me that in all sports. Handle your business early. You won't have to deal with it at the end. I duh. I'm shivering as I say it out loud. Ben, thoughts on game four?
- [53:55]
Ben
I mean, I like what Sabrina then just said, because New York so often does not handle their business early, or they get into these lapses in which, like, they let teams hang around and hang around and then they sometimes lose these games. However, like, you know, I picked New York in four, I believe, heading into this series. And I just think, as I said a couple minutes ago, there are more ways that I can see New York winning game four than there are ways for Minnesota to do it. And I think, like, the recipe, you know, the recipes for New York are broader and there's just more of them. And so, you know, whether it's a big JJ game, whether it's a big Stewie game, whether it's a. Another, you know, big thieves game or Sabrina game, like, just playing the odds, one of those or two of those or three of those is gonna hit. And I like the odds of that happening more than I do like a 40 piece from Nafisa Collier for even how great she's been this postseason. So, yeah, I think New York closes this. Closes this out in Minnesota. And, you know, everyone's going, I guess I'm going back to Brooklyn no matter what. The New York Liberty are going back to Brooklyn no matter what. It's just a matter. Well, I'm not doing it with the championship no matter what. I'm just getting on a flight. We'll see if the season is over when I do. But I think the New York Liberty will end up going back to New York with a little bit of hardware.
- [55:18]
Sabrina Ionescu
From a basketball perspective, I absolutely agree in that if you list the things that could take either team to victory in game four, I absolutely think the list is a bit longer for the New York Liberty. I think Atlanta Smith's injury, however that's going to play out. Knowing that that's going to be lingering, I think that is going to be a factor. The only, the only thing that makes me think we're going back to Brooklyn. I just don't see the links going 20 and 2 in their gym. I just feel like the grit is going to come out. That is not a true basketball stat. That's not something you can look up on the box score and figure it out. But I just feel as if there's going to be this sixth man on their team of we cannot lose this game. It's like not an option. So we'll see. I think it's still going to be. I, I think I said links in five. I might change to New York. I might. Oh gosh, don't come for me, folks. All right, before we go, we gotta round up what's going on the W or around women's basketball because this is actually not in the W. I don't know if you guys have heard of unrivaled. They've done in a phenomenal job of announcing their unbelievable star studded group of players that are going to be playing in this league league. 30 players, six teams total happening down in Miami. Shout out two stars within this WNBA finals that came together from UConn, Brianna Stewart, Nafisa Collier coming together to do this out of season, out of WNBA season league and this three by three basketball league actually just got a TV rights deal. Shout out to them. They reached a multi year deal with TNT Sports and they're going to have their games on TNT and True TV and it's going to be streamed on Max. This is awesome. And shout out to Mike Vorkanov of the Athletic that did the full story. You can read more about it on our site. Sabrina, Ben I'll let either one of you guys take this a league that's brand new in its existence, that is new as a product within women's basketball. Of course, you know, on the men's side Ice Cube and His big three league exists. There's not been something like this in the off season stateside. Right. For the American audience. What does the ability that, you know, unrivals ability to get a TV deal with a major broadcaster, like a max of hbo, tnt, true TV before their launch even happens in January. What does that showcase to you guys?
- [57:59]
D
Well, the whole purpose of Unrivaled was that WNBA players, the stars in particular, would not just go dark for the off season. That there was this big gap, you know, from October to May when the WNBA is not playing, that we just forget about these players. And in order to achieve the purpose of Unrival, to keep them top of mind, to keep them in the public conversation, they have to be visible. And so that was one of the major tenets when, you know, we talked to Alex Bazell, the president of Unrivaled, about what he wanted to do with this league. They had to be on TV that you could find. Right. He wanted to make sure that you could turn on the television and see these games without having to look, without having to find a specific streamer, without having to do a lot of digging, that these games would just be available. And you think about the TNT lineup. It's going to be Monday, Unrivaled, Tuesday, NBA, Wednesday, NHL, Thursday, NBA and Friday Unrivaled. That's major sports across the week. It fits the bill of what that network is hoping to do. And when you have investors in Unrivaled like David Levy, who is former president of Turner and obviously has relationships still at that organization, it just makes sense this partnership happened. And I think it's awesome that, you know, we're obviously very excited to see what this league looks like, and it's just gonna be a lot easier to absorb it now that it's on tnt.
- [59:12]
Sabrina Ionescu
Absolutely. Just having these players imprinted in your mind beyond the WNBA season helps grow everything right within the ecosystem of women's basketball. I think that that is one of the biggest testaments of players going from the college level to the wnba. You saw what that looks like, like when players are imprinted in your mind from that. From that league going into another league. Just how the continued support easily transitioned. And so hopefully you'll see a little bit of that this year with Unrivaled. It will be launching January 17, 2025, and clearly we'll be on a TV near you. So shout out to them on being able to do that. All right, guys, that is it for today. Appreciate you all tuning in, giving us your ear again. Hit that subscribe button not only to this podcast, but of course the content on the site. Sabrina and Ben are working alongside each other and other writers throughout the ecosystem of the athletic to give you great insights on not only this finals, what's going on, the W business deals happening around women's basketball. So definitely, definitely subscribe. Leave us Comments Let us know do you like what we're saying? Even if you don't like what we're saying, I think we welcome that too. Right? Right, Sabrina? We're cool with that, right?
- [60:27]
D
We welcome constructive criticism.
- [60:29]
Sabrina Ionescu
There it is. It's got to be constructive, folks. Put your hard hats on for now. On behalf of Sabrina and Ben, I am Zena Kaita thanking you for your ear, encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning, keep watching and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to keep growing it. Until next time. Foreign.
- [60:53]
Zena Kaita
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Ben
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D
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Ben
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D
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Ben
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Sabrina Ionescu
Acast Powers the world's best podcasts Here. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where.
- [62:22]
D
We make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves.
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Ben
I'm Paige Desorbo.
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D
I'm Hannah Berner.
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Ben
Welcome to the squad.
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D
Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.
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Ben
But of course we can't be managed.
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D
So we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling.
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Ben
We will make fun of pop culture news.
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D
We're watching fashion trends pep talks where.
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Ben
We give advice, mental health moments and games.
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D
And guests listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Zena Kaita
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
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Sabrina Ionescu
Acast.
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Com.