Is Unrivaled’s Hype Wearing Off in Season 2?

Summary

Podcast Summary: No Offseason: The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show

Episode: “Is Unrivaled’s Hype Wearing Off in Season 2?”
Date: January 16, 2026
Hosts: Zena Keita, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the second season of Unrivaled, the innovative women’s pro basketball offseason league, focusing on whether its initial hype is dropping off, analyzing attendance, TV ratings, and the evolving off-court business of women’s basketball. The team also covers major news in the women’s basketball world, including the launch of Project B's international schedule, notable athlete career moves into pop culture, updates on the WNBA's CBA status, and Ben Pickman’s bittersweet departure as co-host.

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Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Women’s Basketball Stars Expand into Entertainment

• Timestamps: 02:35–08:35

• The hosts discuss Angel Reese and A’ja Wilson’s voice roles in the upcoming animated movie “Goat” and reminisce about the longstanding tradition of WNBA players making TV and film cameos since the league’s inception.

  • Ben: “It speaks to the cultural crossover... this is a movie loaded with stars... it just speaks to the reach that so many players have.” (04:19)
  • Fun speculation about ideal WNBA players as animated characters.
  • Steven Curry’s production company is behind “Goat,” showcasing NBA–WNBA collaboration.

• Actress and WNBA point guard Courtney Vandersloot’s TV cameo in Chicago Med (NBC), highlighting a growing media trend as WNBA lands on NBC.

• Sabrina points out Skylar Diggins’ attendance at the Golden Globes, noting her Saratoga Water brand partnership (09:34–10:02).

2. WNBA CBA Update: Free Agency Moratorium

• Timestamps: 10:21–13:09
• Sabrina provides an explainer of the current WNBA labor landscape:
  • The prior CBA extension expired; the league is in a moratorium where normal business (including free agency) is paused until a new agreement is reached.
  • The players association is launching new “player hubs” in the U.S. and Spain for off-season training.
  • “No free agency until a new CBA, which is as we all expected... now formalized.” — Sabrina (11:42)
  • Both hosts note how the process aims to avoid confusion as negotiations continue.

3. Project B International League Launch

• Timestamps: 16:00–22:56

• Project B, a new, globally barnstorming women’s league, announces Tokyo as its first international stop, featuring Japanese star Mae Yamamoto (16:19–17:51).

  • Discussion of Project B’s unique format (two-week “mini-tournaments” on different continents) and the contrast with Unrivaled.
  • “Barnstorming” gets a new meaning as the league adopts a truly global strategy.
  • The league is targeting 66 players, combining U.S. stars and global talent (18:27–19:42).

• Competition or Complement?

  • Sabrina: Unrivaled and Project B are “serving two very different goals.” (20:37–22:56)
  • Unrivaled keeps players “stateside and in the national consciousness” during the WNBA off-season; Project B appeals to a global audience with full 5-on-5 play.
  • Key question: Will overlapping schedules force players to choose between domestic and international opportunities?

  “If you need players to report to camp in March, can’t really do that if they’re playing in Tokyo.” — Sabrina (24:16)

4. Unrivaled Season 2: Hype vs. Reality

• Timestamps: 24:16–35:27

TV Ratings & Growth Metrics

• Viewership dropped from 221,000 in Year 1 to 175,000 in Year 2 (linear TV). HBO Max streaming numbers are unreported.

• Factors impacting ratings:

  • Season 2 launched on a Monday vs. a Friday in year 1.
  • Competition with NFL Playoffs and less NBA cross-promotion (since the NBA’s TV rights moved to NBC/Amazon).
  • General trend: "A debut is so much easier... the second season is always harder." — Sabrina (25:31)
  • Media deal security: Warner has a 6-year deal but with a Year 3 opt-out (27:30).

• Positive Business Indicators:

  • Social impressions up 27% YoY; merchandise sales up 54%; ticket revenue up 40% (30:03–30:30).

Roster Turnover & Continuity

• Only the Rose (Chelsea Gray’s team) and Vinyl retain most of their lineup; other teams shuffled with expansion.
  • “It’s hard to latch on... when I watched the Laces last year, now there’s no KMac...it just looks very different." — Sabrina (33:09)
• Roster instability may affect fan investment and team chemistry, but continuity is growing more visible in year two.

On-Court Analysis

• Teams standing out for quick chemistry: Rose, Vinyl, Mist, Breeze.
• Teams struggling: Hive (mostly new to 3x3), Lunar Owls (lost stars and missing Skylar Diggins).
• Young talent shines for the Breeze: “Breeze... very young, but they clearly want to win these games.” — Sabrina (36:00)
• Notable duos: Paige Bueckers/Rekia Jackson and Alicia Gray/Breanna Stewart.

5. Unrivaled to WNBA: Player Development Insights

• Timestamps: 44:34–48:40
• Rekia Jackson’s growing defensive impact likely crucial for Sparks’ future.
• Dom Malanga’s increased responsibility as a lead pick-and-roll player is a major storyline ahead of her expected WNBA role.
• Veronica Burton’s evolving play as both organizer and defender is seen as a boon after her previous WNBA “most improved” season.

Off-Court Brand Expansion

• Players like Arie McDonald and Rachel Banham are building podcasts, reflecting the league’s focus on holistic, year-round visibility and career development.

6. Season Two: Final Takes and Free Throw Competition

• Timestamps: 48:40–51:13
• Rose (Chelsea Gray & co.) identified as a powerhouse, with strong continuity and early dominance.
• Paige Bueckers is leading the free throw challenge: “Paige is your current leader in the clubhouse. Eight for eight.” — Sabrina (49:58)

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Standout Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On WBB in pop culture:

  “When the WNBA first started, [cameos] were its bread and butter... Like, how many sitcoms had Lisa Leslie, Cheryl Swoopes, Dawn Staley just walk in?"
  — Zena (03:48)

• On TV ratings reality:

  “Who watches TV on cable anymore? But it’s still a big revenue source for sports leagues.”
  — Sabrina (27:30)

• On Project B’s barnstorming:

  “Project B is kind of redefining the term barnstorming by a huge metropolitan storming all around the world.”
  — Zena (18:05)

• Ben’s send-off:

  “Building this show... has been a true professional highlight... the ethos and energy of this show is exactly how we talk offline.”
  — Ben (57:48–60:28)

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Sentimental Finale: Ben Pickman’s Farewell

• Timestamps: 52:16–63:57

• Ben is moving to a new professional adventure after being an essential voice and co-creator on No Offseason. Sabrina and Zena reflect on their partnership, the behind-the-scenes laughs, and Ben’s influence as a journalist and friend.
  • Sabrina: “You are the best mind in women’s basketball media by far.” (60:29)
• Listeners are reassured the show will go on and Chantel Jennings returns from parental leave, ensuring continued insider coverage.

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Key Takeaways

• Unrivaled is facing natural growing pains in its second year but remains a vibrant, innovative offseason product with evolving business and media strategies.
• The global expansion of women’s basketball (Project B, media cameos, brand building) is accelerating, offering more paths for athlete career and audience growth.
• Labor and scheduling battles (CBA, Project B dates) will continue to shape players’ choices and league structures.
• The future of women’s pro hoops is bright, competitive, and increasingly dynamic on and off the court—and the No Offseason team is devoted to tracking every story.

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Next episode drops Wednesday!
Hosts: Zena Keita, Sabrina Merchant (with Chantel Jennings returning). Ben Pickman signs off with gratitude and will remain a friendly presence in women’s basketball media.

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For more: sports.yahoo.com/womenssports
Follow the pod for updates and deep dives into the heart of women’s hoops.

Transcript

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[Zena Keda]

Hello everyone and welcome to no Offseason. I'm Zena Caida.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Ben Pickman]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Keda]

And today on the show, Week one of Unrivaled Basketball delivered plenty of encore excitement and lots of screens and Lights and music. It's still as energetic in that building as it was last year, but it did face some challenges reaching a broader TV audience. We're gonna get into that. And so the BIG Can Unrivaled continue to grow its TV presence and connect with even more fans in year two. And then we're going to talk a little bit about some big news about one of the hosts on this show. But first, some of your favorite women's basketball stars are bringing their skills off the court. And I know you could look at that unrivaled situation and look at it like it's a fashion show plus a basketball game happening at the same time. We're not talking about that. We're talking about movie stars, TV stars in the making. For example, Angel Reese, Asia Wilson are expanding their resumes with cameos in the upcoming animated film Goat Voicing a Polar Bear and Reptile. Apparently, this is Angel's second film moment. She actually had a cameo appearance in A House of Dynamite. Very short, but very solid alongside one of my faves, Idris Elba, Ben, Sabrina. I'm just wanting to look around. And we know when the WNBA first started, this was what it was all about. Cameos were its bread and butter. This was how they marketed the league when it was first launching back in 1996. I don't know how many sitcoms I watched that all of a sudden had Lisa Leslie, Cheryl Swoopes, Don Staley just walking in, Rebecca Lobo, like they all had cameos. So now thinking about this, for angel, for Asia, for any of these stars, like, what does it mean for the broader transition from sports into entertainment for these athletes?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, it just speaks to what you're saying, the transition, the cultural crossover that so many people in women's basketball in the WNBA currently have, that this is a movie that is loaded with stars. It not only has those players that you mentioned, it has people like Nick Kroll, Gabriella Union. It has Wayne Knight, who is a fan favorite going back to his Space Jam days, another animated movie with a famous basketball player at the center of it. NBA players like Dwayne Wade also have a role in this movie. So it just speaks to the reach that so many players have and the appeal that I think, you know, in Asia Wilson and Angel Reese has in terms of drawing in new fans. But I will disagree with your premise slightly, Xena, because I don't think anyone when the WNBA was launching thought, oh, yeah, I want to be a cameo as a polar bear in an animated, you know, Columbia Pictures Sony Pictures movie one day. I don't think that was really a goal for angel or for Asia to be an alligator or whatever other reptile she is playing.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I just treat them better than they did in Space Jam 2, where Tarazi and Nek, his characters are, like, barely fleshed out at all, and you can't even really tell that it's them.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. But, yeah, I agree with that.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I just have hopefully higher hopes, you know, for goat with all of these. And I also love that Ben said NBA players like Dwyane Wade, who hasn't played in the NBA for three points. Kevin Love, maybe NBA players in this.

[Zena Keda]

Movie still playing for the Jazz. That's right. That's absolutely right.

[Ben Pickman]

Who are they missing? Like, what WNBA players would you have wanted them to cast? And what animals? This seems to be some kind of fictitious animal world in which they play.

[Sabrina Merchant]

A game called roarball.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. Yeah. So this is all housed under Stephen Curry's production company. And I love this concept of the movie. I've seen the trailer. It's really fun. You should check it out. I'm thinking from a voice perspective, right. Cause all these animated series, like, when you think about the best movies, it's been like, who's got the most unique voice or the most adorable voice? And immediately Li yoru comes to mind. I just feel like she would have been a wonderful anything in this movie. Sidekick, just like, you know, a sweet person at the door. I don't know. I just feel like something somewhere within this universe, Liyuru fits.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I just think Sidney Coulson's too funny to not include in projects like these. You know, you need an athlete with a good sense of humor, and her voice alone is funny. Like, you don't need the whole. Yeah, obviously her personality is very funny and like, she does the faces and the expressions and everything, but her voice in itself is very funny. And I think in a movie like this, where, honestly, I thought goat was gonna be more like. Like the title is going to be more celebratory. Right. Like greatest of all time kind of goat. And it turns out it's like this tiny little goat who nobody wants on their team. So I'm interested to see if that, like, evolves into something as long as.

[Zena Keda]

Serena, you know, there's a double entendre. You know, he's going to end up being.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Where are the periods in the word goat? Right, right, right.

[Zena Keda]

I do feel like there's obviously, you know, Stephen Curry debated one of the goats. Definitely a goat shooter, for sure. I'm sure There's a lot of double entendres we're going to see throughout this movie. And you are so right on the Sidney Coulson. That is such a good call because I immediately, as soon as you said that, I was like, who usually voices these, like, raspier voices? It's Awkwafina. Right? And I don't believe that Awkwafina's a part of this project. She's always in these, like, kind of cartoonish bare units.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I don't watch a ton of animated movies, but I'm fascinated by your expertise in this genre.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, I love it. I mean, even think. I mean, I love Disney Pixar. I actually have a chance to go see their offices very soon. We're in the bay. They're down the street. I met them recently and I was like, guys, my nickname in college was literally Dory. I always forget things. So they were like, yeah, come on down. So anyways, long story short, I'm very excited about this movie.

[Ben Pickman]

I guess the personal news that you're teasing Xena is are you going to be in an animated Pixar movie or animated Sony Pictures movie one day?

[Zena Keda]

Ben, put that into the. Just put it into atmosphere. Let's manifest that I would live to be.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, speaking of great voices.

[Zena Keda]

Right in a. Oh, my God. Sabrina. Okay, we're just giving all the compliments out right now. I love this. But let's, let's transition it back. There's also someone else that's getting TV recognition. I didn't even know this. Sabrina, you were the one that caught this. Apparently Chicago Med has a new, like, potential goat in terms of assists in their cast coming out on January 21st.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. You know, the Chicago franchise, very big on NBC. I think now that the WNBA is making the move to NBC, you're going to see some athletes, you know, starting to pop in on their shows again. I've already seen, like, Draymond Green showed up on an episode of, I want to say St. Denis Medical earlier this season. So expect more athletes to show up there, like on the late night shows too. Right. I think Ben and I talked about this. Like a conic nipple was on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. Why would that be? Because the NBA is on NBC. So I think, I think that's all part of that. But Courtney Vandersloot obviously spent a lot of time in hospital recently, I'm sure, with this torn acl, so maybe it's not the most pleasant association. But she looks very happy and all of the Photos of her are gonna be on this. And, you know, big franchise. She could be on Chicago Fire. She could be on Chicago pd. Like, lots spin off potential, depending on how this goes for her. Cool news for Courtney.

[Zena Keda]

There you go. Sabrina's got a future as an agent. She's already thinking expansion here. Okay. I love this. All right, now let's transition to, like, real basketball news as opposed to.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Don't forget, Skylar Dickens was also at the Golden Globes this week as part of partnership.

[Zena Keda]

Thank you for that. She looked fire. She looked amazing. I'm not sure. Wait, you said it was part of what partnership?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Some Saratoga water partnership.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I did not know that.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I literally just saw the official water of the Golden Globes. Yeah. Skylar Diggins is a brand ambassador for them. Yes. What you think of the Golden Globes, you think of people drinking water, right?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, of course. Absolutely. Let me tell you right now, this is Sabrina doing her job. Because when I. I'm telling you, I saw those pictures, I double tapped each time I swiped. Okay? So I just double tapped. Didn't do any research as to why is Skylar Diggins at the Golden Globes. And I was content. I was like, I like the dress. I like the fact that her nails match her dress cape. I'm happy with it. Which.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Great. Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

She looked great. She looked great. Okay, now are we ready to transition? Because we got some things to talk about a little bit CBA news. I know last time we spoke, we hinted at the fact that a moratorium could be on the horizon, and that's exactly what happened. So, Sabrina, you wrote about this on our site. Walk us through it for anyone that might have missed it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, we recorded probably an hour or two early to really talk about it on Monday, unfortunately. But, yeah, as we had mentioned, the WNBA is in a period of status quo right now where the normal working conditions of the previous CBA are still in effect, even though it is technically lapsed because the extension expired without a new deal. But under the terms of a normal CBA, free agency would have started on January 11th with the extension of qualifying AFIRs and core designations. And obviously, that would be very weird for that to happen while a new CBA was being agreed to. So technically, like, teams could have extended those qualifying offers, players could have signed those qualifying offers, and it would have been legal under the terms of status quo. But the league and the players association agreed to a moratorium that will suspend all free agency activities until the agreement of a new cba, which just makes logical sense and prevents Any sort of awkward deals that have to follow the rules of two separate agreements and nobody really needs the confusion that that would engender. So no free agency until a new cba, which is as we pretty much all expected it to go. But now that is formalized with this moratorium.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, so no free agency. But Ben, is there any other aspect of, like legal operations that might change during this period of status quo?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, in a status quo, all the working conditions have to be negotiated or changes to those working conditions have to be negotiated. And so, as Sabrina said, this was really the first big thing that had to get sorted out. I don't think we have clarity yet as to what else could change, what else might change. But at least for now, business will continue on as usual as the two sides try and, you know, sort out an agreement here.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, and then my last question is, outside of potentially more inflatable rats, what else could be happening behind the scenes at the players union to ensure that the players are good during this period of time?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, a lot of them are at unrivaled, so they have a lot of the accommodations that would be necessary during an off season. The WNBPA also just launched a series of player hubs, like workout spaces across both the United States and some in Spain that provide players with facilities during the off season. So they have a method of training and keeping themselves in shape when they're not in the WNBA season. So those sorts of things are being taken care of. And like Ben said, during status quo, they can still even access their team facilities. But if it gets weird to do that, you know, while you're in this bitter negotiation with the union and the league, then obviously there are alternatives to that. But you know, I think all of the same contentions that we've talked about before still exist, namely with the revenue structure, the salary structure, and there's just going to have to be some compromise from both sides on that before a deal can be agreed to.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, I love the idea of the player hubs. I thought that was pretty cool. Spain seemed very specific, but perhaps that is like the center point of all the players that are overseas. Okay, well, Ben, you've got to jump really quickly, but Sabrina and I are going to dive into unrivaled and then we'll see you back in the last block. A PSA from Instacart.

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[Sabrina Merchant]

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[Zena Keda]

Now, before we get into unrivaled, there was another piece of news that dropped this week. Project B trying to steal the spotlight. I'm joking. But they they did announce that Tokyo, Japan is the first stop on their tour. That's fire. That is so Dope. Okay, Sabrina, what else can you share about this update?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right, so we've mentioned previously that the goal of Project B is to have these two week mini site tournaments around the world as a method of like barnstorming for the league. And so Europe, Asia were listed as potential sites and Tokyo is a very specific potential site. Now I do think that the data is interesting because, you know, we've talked about Project B potentially launching during the Latter Half of 2026. Right. November of 2026 has been bounded about as a starting point and the Tokyo date isn't until spring of 2027. So just to keep in mind as to how the scheduling is going and how the progression of Project B is coming along, November is still a date that's theoretical and the Tokyo date isn't until later in the calendar. But it is interesting that they announced the Tokyo date alongside the signing of Mae Yamamoto, who is one of the best Japanese players in the world. Part of their 3x3 team. She attended training camp for the Dallas Wings. Just a really good, flashy, fun point guard. So the kind of player that you'd want to, you know, bring some new fans in, especially if you're going to have a Japanese tour stop. Like, they're probably a lot more interested in seeing my Yamamoto play than they are Sophie Cunningham, for sure. So just good, good branding and execution. Because you mentioned Project Be trying to steal the spotlight. They've kind of gone dark for a while. Like we had, you know, the initial wave of signings and then their social media just sort of stopped posting for six weeks. So maybe they were just taking a holiday break like the rest of us. But you know, nice to see that there is still progress being made in whatever is to come for this new league.

[Zena Keda]

One thing is for sure, the term barnstorming has to change at this point with this tournament. I mean, thinking of when and how it started in the United States. These aren't barns. These are huge.

[Sabrina Merchant]

They're not. You're right.

[Zena Keda]

No, no, no, I don't think. I'm just saying that is literally the term though, because, you know, but I just love the fact that Project B is kind of redefining the term of barnstorming by a huge metropolitan storming all around the world. This is awesome.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Who's to say what venues are available in Tokyo on March 26? That's true. They could be Barnes in Tokyo.

[Zena Keda]

That's very true. But if you've watched the Japanese national team, you know, they are fast. They, they, they are super quick. They Put up a ton of threes. They're super entertaining if you watch them on the international scale. So this is cool that they'll be able to sign my Yamayamoto. And then looking at all the other people they still have to sign. There's supposed to be 66 players and they've got some American players they've announced so far. But little bit more about what we can expect about these announcements. Like, how soon should we know who are part of the six teams that are supposed to be a part of Project B?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I think it all depends on when they start playing, right? Like, if you're going to be playing in November, you probably want to know by March, April, who's going to be part of this league. If you plan on pushing back the calendar a little bit and not starting until, let's say, February, you obviously give yourselves a little bit more leeway there. But they only have about a dozen players publicly announced, and as you mentioned, they're supposed to have 66. So a bit of a. Bit of a gap to cover. And it's all part of, like, are those players gonna be WNBA players? Are those players gonna come from around the world? You know, Miyamoto is one of the first ones who doesn't really, you know, isn't really a WMA player. Obviously she attended trading camp, but she hasn't played in WNBA before. So just balancing the roster pool of how much American talent there's going to be, how much international talent there's going to be, whether that's from Europe, Asia, Africa, South America.

[Zena Keda]

See, this is my thing. Like, it's exciting, the concept of having a new basketball league. Of course, there's this international, like aspect to it that brings in a new audience. And we're seeing Unrivaled already in year two. We're going to get into this a little bit deeper, but we're seeing that the audience numbers have dropped. From a TV perspective, I haven't been in the building. The energy still seems the same in there. But thinking about Project B and their strategy, knowing that there's the $2 million salaries, the equity partnerships, this is very similar and almost aggrandized from everything that Unrivaled had provided for their players. What do you think this league could present in terms of foil, in terms of competition, in terms of maybe inspiration for a league like Unrivaled? Could their strategy impact how Unrivaled grows or sustains itself?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, they're serving two very different goals. Right. Unrivaled. The whole purpose was to Keep players stateside. It was an idea for American players to be in the national consciousness for those six months during the WNBA off season. So they didn't entirely lose momentum after the WNBA season. Right. Like Nafisa Collier, Stewie have talked about, we couldn't really build brands because nobody saw us for six months. And then when we did come back, you know, you're just working to rebuild all of the cache you built up before. Right. And that's what unrivaled is about. It's. Everybody's in the United States. Yeah, they're only in one side in Miami, but they're on social media. They're in the same time zone. You can watch their games on television. Like, they're very easy to access, and they're just present in a way that you wouldn't be if you were playing in Euroleague or some other place. And yeah, three on three is part of it. Right. Like, it's supposed to be a less taxing game so that players are not completely worn out when it comes to 5 on 5. I think last year proved that it was a little bit more challenging physically than they anticipated. And I, you know, they're working to resolve that. But the goal was, you know, to be developmental, to be, you know, a place where Americans could hone their skills and then also just be present for the American audience. And Project B is not that. Right. Like, if you talk about playing a stop in Tokyo, those timelines are not going to work for an American television audience. And, you know, we'll mention how television's already problem for unrivaled anyway, but that's. That's not who it's for. Right. It's a global audience, and it's five on five still. Right. So it's not like you're playing a different style. It's not like you're specifically honing in on the developmental part of the game. It really is about just taking basketball to different corners of the world and trying to showcase these stars in different places. And it's honestly, in a sense, a lot like what WNBA players have done forever. Right. Like, Nako Gumuke has played in China, Jonquil Jones has played in China and Russia. Alyssa Thomas has played all over the world. Right. This is just what WNBA players have done. And it's a different model of doing that because it's not a traditional league. It's these point system that we're still sort of learning the basis of, but I'm not sure it's direct competition for unrivaled because they are Such different existences. Right. Like they just, they don't serve the same goals, they're not trying to play the same style of basketball or even the same style of season. Like I don't know what a playoff system would look like in Project B with this two week touring system. So they just seem so dramatically opposed in how they're like trying to go about serving basketball. Like the only thing they really have in common is we're paying players, we're providing equity, and I think it's just going to take a very different kind of mission, you know, to make both leagues succeed.

[Zena Keda]

Well, another thing they have in common is some of the players. And I think that that's going to be the issue really is figuring out where the players, how they measure, what do they want to do. Is an international audience more important for their brand and their goals and what they want to accomplish? Is the ability to stay stateside more valuable than being able to have opportunities to go into international markets and build their brands and build opportunities there? Or is this something that interrupts their WNBA career in a way? We still don't really know what's happening there. It's supposed to be obviously in the off season of the wnba, but is this something where if I get an enough money in Project B, I don't need to play in the wnba? I don't know. We'll see what happens.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, and that's where the, the cadence is kind of interesting because we mentioned this Japan tour date and the dates are supposed to be from March 26 to April 4. And we have reported in the CBA negotiations that the league has suggested the training camps start in March. So that would directly conflict with when the Project B players are supposed to be in Tokyo. So talk about like, you know, competition with unrivaled. This is more direct competition to the WNBA in terms of when the players are being occupied. So that' something to keep in mind as just like what sort of calendar the WNBA goes with. We know they're not like really trying to get exclusivity, but if you need players to report to camp in March, can't really do that if they're playing.

[Zena Keda]

In Tokyo and there's only more teams coming to the W. Which once again poses the question of does the calendar need to expand to be able to fit all those games in? Because we've seen unrivaled do that and we've got thoughts about that. So let's go ahead and get into unrivaled in this inaugural season. Unrivaled they did it like. Like they blew whatever marker there was. They blew right past that. They blew everyone's expectations. It was strong. It was a great product. It was strong TV viewership. They averaged about 221,000 viewers across its TNT and TruTV simulcast. But this second season one, the timing of its launch on a Monday right after the new year, I think that impacted some things, but it attracted about 175,000 viewers, which is a clear drop from last year's regular season average. The games are also being shown on HBO Max this year, and we don't have viewership numbers for that platform. But you would think after blowing everyone away in that exciting first season, that the second season would draw even more interest, especially because they expanded. They've got all these new personalities that everyone are really excited about joining the fold. There are some players that you're being introduced to that you might have seen in the WNBA season. Now they're being introduced into the unrivaled fold.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But.

[Zena Keda]

But I don't know. Sabrina, what do you think is going on here in terms of the drop?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, first of all, I think a debut is so much easier to capture attention than an encore.

[Zena Keda]

Right.

[Sabrina Merchant]

1,000% the first season, there's so much excitement. New product. What is this gonna look like? Just the curiosity. Go.

[Zena Keda]

Exactly, exactly.

[Sabrina Merchant]

That draws people in in a way that we know what the product is now. Like, we know what unrivaled is gonna look like. Even if there is expansion, it's still. The second season is always harder than the first season. Right. I think we saw that with, like, you know, when the WNBA first launched. Right. Like, 97 was this enormous peak of what the product could be, and then it started to dip a little bit. And to not expect that for Unrivaled, I think, would be foolish. You mentioned the date last year, they debuted on a Friday later in January. So just a better TV night than Monday during the afternoon, and then later in the evening, their first weekend went up against, like, the NFL wild card round of the playoffs, which I know we're not a football podcast, but that was a great round of NFL games. Like, a lot of. A lot of viewership going in for those games. I can understand, like, football. Football is just a behemoth. You can't. You can't compete against the NFL. It's. It is.

[Zena Keda]

King. King. Yeah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And one other thing to consider about Unrivaled's TV presence is that last year, the NBA was also on tnt, so there was a lot of cross promotion of. Hey, you're watching basketball on tnt, make sure you tune in on Friday or Sunday to watch Unrivaled. Was it Sundays? I think it was Friday, Saturday, Monday actually. But to watch Unrivaled. And now if you're a basketball fan who's watching the NBA on NBC or Amazon, you're not getting that right across. Promotion of like, hey, Unrivaled is also happening. So there's just little things that, you know, could contribute to the viewership going down. But all that being said, TV viewership is obviously a very big deal for a league, right? Like media rights are such a big driver of revenue. Luckily for Unrival, they already have a six year media deal. Although there is an opt out for Warner at year three. So we'll see how that ends up getting evaluated. And you know, you think about HBO Max, like you said, we don't get streaming numbers. And other than the big leagues like the NFL and things like that, MLS probably gets about the same number as 120,000 ish on Apple TV that unrivaled is getting. So there's a lot of different ways to look at the TV numbers. It could be positive in the sense that you're comparing it to other smaller properties. It could be negative in the sense of what we're looking at in year one. But I think there's so much other context that's affecting how the league has produced so far, TV wise. And we're only one week in, so I think we should probably just wait a couple weeks here to figure out what the viewership is going to settle in at. I think Paige Beckers is obviously a super popular player. Breeze have gotten off to a good start that could start drawing people in maybe as the WNBA CBA prospects get even more tenuous and people are like, oh my God, I'm not going to see these players at all. They'll be more inclined to tune in. I don't really know. But I do think that linear TV viewership seems very outdated in terms of how we talk about things. Because who watches TV on cable television television anymore? But it also is really important in terms of media rights and that's still a big revenue source for sports leagues no matter when they start 1,000%.

[Zena Keda]

I mean, I literally was doing my budget yesterday and looked at how many streaming sites I subscribe to. It's disgusting. But you're absolutely right, it does feel a little bit outdated. And unfortunately you can't quite put a dollar amount on the amount of engagement they have on social media on their YouTube channel, there's so much opportunity there. If you are a brand that works and wants to target young women, moms like younger generation in general, you have a gold mine. And they're all just sitting there together, creating content, enjoying themselves. So there's something there to it. But from a TV viewership perspective, it feels as if the timing for me is probably the number one thing that I'm thinking is impacting some of these numbers. I think you make a great point of letting it settle out mainly because once this behemoth that is the NFL, which yes, they had great wild card rounds, did you see the first round of playoffs? Like they had really great games in that regard too. And so I think there's a lot of distractions at this point in the calendar. And so once we get into the second half of February, I think after All Star for NBA even getting a little bit of the cameos that are going to happen naturally at NBA All Stars from the wnba players that are also an unrivaled that are going to be at those events and then they're going to have that little buzz and they're going to go back and be able to have their buzz and unrivaled a little bit more focus. People are now dialed into basketball a little bit more. I think that this, that should possibly help their numbers out from that perspective.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. And you mentioned the social. Right. Like, yeah, Unrivaled has said that their views are and impressions are up about 27% from last year's opening weekend. You know, their merchandise sales are up 54% from end of year one to the start of year two. So that's, that's an enormous number. Right. Like they added another night of games, they added more seats in the arena. So their ticket revenue is up about 40% too. So there's other indicators that suggest that their business is growing in some measures even if we're not seeing the gains on television.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So one thing though, you talk about that opt out and put your business cap on. You gotta do everything you can by the time that opt out comes to make sure that you're putting a good product on the floor. And I would say that the product and the capability of the product is there. Right. These are still WNBA stars, these amazing pro women's basketball players playing in this unrivaled league, still doing unbelievable buzzer beaters, ridiculous shot blocking, ridiculous shot making. I mean, Chelsea Gray is still the point God doing insane things out of the league.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I feel very good about my MVP pick.

[Zena Keda]

Ooh, that is, I make a lot.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Of bad predictions on this show. This one I feel good about, feel great about that one.

[Zena Keda]

Absolutely. So thinking about that, it feels like, okay, well, the product, the basketball is there and it's fun. But when you think about viewership, audience building, affinity building, people have to feel tied to something. And it's a struggle when you think about unrivaled in the product, in the roster, turnover. There's really only one team that's been pretty like, okay, we know that team, We've seen that team, and it happens to be the team that Chelsea Gray's on the Rose. But there's something about how some of these teams have shifted a little bit that I think hurts your ability to tune in and be like, yeah, I know my. Wait, the Vinyl look a little different this year? Or, wait, hold on, what's going on the Laces, where. Where's my girl Kayla?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Where's she at?

[Zena Keda]

You know, I mean, like, there's. There's a little bit of discontinuity, and it causes a little bit of chemistry that still needs to build that there isn't this follow up from last year, which I think also might impact the TV audience. But how do you think it's impacting the way they're playing overall? Just having the roster turnover and then on top of it, how we connect as fans to the product?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I think with any professional league, you're gonna expect some measure of turnover. Right. Like, there's free agency. People choose different opportunities. There's not really free agency in the sense of unrivaled. Like, there's some people who sign contracts and they're just not back in the league. You know, like, you talk about Kayla McBride or Jewel Lloyd, but the way that unrivaled expanded and then created an entirely new draft to reassign their players, I think that just sort of just enhanced all of the turnover that was happening. And you mentioned Rose has four returning players, Vinyl has three returning players. Other than that, I think most of the teams are starting with two or maybe even one player from last season's roster. And it's hard to latch on. Right. When you're a fan of a pro team, you want to invest in the players. You want to know that there's something to look forward to year after year. And it's harder when, you know, I watched the Laces last year and now there's. There's no kmac. Right. And, like, it just looks very different than it did a year ago. So.

[Zena Keda]

And for what it's Worth, though, I am very happy about Shakira Austin joining the Rose. That was a great change. That was. That was positive. Okay, go ahead.

[Ben Pickman]

Sorry.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But, you know, as unrivaled, you know, grows, I think it's something to consider, like, even if they do expand again to make sure that there isn't this radical reconstruction of rosters, because, you know, it's fun maybe one year to have all of the videos of, like, Rena Wakama, Noel Quinn and all the coaches in the room drafting, and, like, they're all having a great time with one another. And, like, that's good social content, but it also, like, that's good social content for a couple days, and then we actually have to watch them play basketball for two months. Right? So I think you gotta be clear about how you prioritize the moments of engagement versus what the product is gonna look like for the bulk of the season. And maybe this is just one growing pain that the league had to undergo, because if you are gonna add two new teams, you do have to make sure that there is some sort of talent redistribution because they're trying to create a competitive product where there is some measure of parity. Right? So I think that's something to consider as we go forward. Like, even if there are more teams being added to Unrivaled, which I'm not sure that there will be, you don't want another wholesale change of players. But you look at the teams that have been similar, right? Like vinyl, like Rose. And I think it is very easy to get reinvested in those groups. Right? Like, even if I haven't thought about Rose Basketball Club Since March of 2025, now I look at it, I'm like, yeah, Chelsea Gray and Lexi hall and Azari Stevens, they have something going, and you can tell that it's been building, and it's fun to see that happen again. And that, to me, is one of the joys about Unrivaled Season two is, oh, I can tell which players have worked together, which players know how this format works. And a team like Hive, where most of these players have not played three Hunter before and they're new to unrivaled, you can see the growing pains relative to a team like Breeze, where even though it is a new club, Rekia Jackson was here last year and Paige Beckers has played three on three at the Olympics before. And like Cambrink and Rikia Jackson are teammates at the Spark, so there is some continuity in a sense, that doesn't exist for some other clubs. Right? So.

[Zena Keda]

And Cambrink 3 Ultra Player as well.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, right. She was going to be on the Olympic team before she tore her acl. Right. And like Kate Martin wasn't unrivaled last year, so part of those laces. Right. So it's all. I think that's one of the joys of season two that I, I guess I should have expected because it's just how pro sports work. Right. Like, you just grow to love a team more and more the more you follow them. But you can actually see, I think, the results on the court because of that continuity, because of that experience. And that's one of the pluses for this league in its second season.

[Zena Keda]

So you can tell that there are certain teams that are picking up right where they left off. Of course, Rose being one of them. They lost Angel Reese, but they're still rocking with the same folks for the most part. And they're looking really, really good vinyls. Similar to that. They lost Aaliyah Boston to another team. They lost Jordan, Canada and Enrique. But again, there's continuity that you're seeing on the floor in terms of their chemistry. What are the teams that you're actually pretty impressed. I know you mentioned already the Breeze, but you're pretty impressed with how quickly the chemistry has shown up on the floor in the first week of unrivaled.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, Mist is another team where they're look very different than last year, but that's probably a good thing considering how much they struggled last season. You know, they bring in Alicia Gray from the Lunar Owls, the most successful team for the majority of the unrivaled season, 2025. And she's just been as good playing next to Brianna Stewart as she was next to Nafisa Collier. As a side note, why isn't Alicia Gray starting all these games? I realize, like everybody plays minutes, but she's, she's too good to be coming off the bench in this situation. Like, let's just count her back in the starting lineup. Play Zach o', Brien, Veronica Burton, I think has been very good for the very good. And then you have, you know, Lana Smith, Leah Rue, all these options to bring in. So that's a team that again looks very different than it did in 2025, but has been significantly better. And then like you said, Breeze, you know, Dominique Malanga, Paige Beckers, rookies, Cameron Jackson are sophomores. Kate Martin is a sophomore. It's very, very young team, but they clearly want to win these games. Like there's very much you watch Paige Beckers in this situation and like she went too long, I think in the WNBA season without winning a lot of games and it's like, no, we're not, we're not doing that again. Like, I'm not making this a part of my experience just because we're young and new. That's not going to be the thing here at Unrivaled, like she's already leading the league in assists in her first, I think about seven plus per game. So that's been very fun to watch because, you know, Paige just excels in this format and like you mentioned, there's other players who have experience in this format. It is very painful as an LA Sparks fan to watch this team. Like, it's super painful because it just looks like the Sparks with the palm tree logo and then you've got Cam and you've got Ricky and you've got Paige and it's like that was supposed to be the team that was like, oh my God. I don't know why, this is not the deal.

[Zena Keda]

I just thought about that. Like I, if you are an LA Sparks fan, you're just like, we were so close. We were this close.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Feels good. Self inflicted torture. And yeah, I really love watching them play together.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, it's, it's, for me, it's, it's Rakia and Paige together. They've got like this, this like cool kid chemistry, like effortless. And then you add in the, you know, Dominique Malanga and Cameron Brink blocking shots and I'm very excited to keep seeing them grow their game in terms of like stepping outside and being able to hit shots outside. We'll see what happens with that. But, but yeah, the Breeze are a lot of fun. I'm thinking now to the teams that maybe haven't gelled together just yet, I've got a team in mind. But then I was a little bit, I would say after Monday's games I was like, maybe, maybe. I don't want to say anything about the Phantom. They had a really good game against the mix. They had a good game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I was like, I don't know, Phantom was the team that I was kind of like, it's going to take a little bit of while to get used to the fact they have have bigs and guards, no wings. And that, that dynamic sometimes is gonna be really hard when you're going up against folks that can do both, that could play big and have guard like skills. But what's the scene that's popping out to you as far as like, ooh, it's Gonna take a little bit of while. We're gonna have to settle in with this team a little bit more.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, we mentioned the Hive, Right. A bunch of players who are just not familiar with 3x3 and they weren't in Unrivaled last year. I think of, you know, the players on that team, maybe like, one of them was a member of Unrivaled last year. Let me double check, because I know Sonia Citron was not. Kelsey Mitchell was not. Yeah, she's the only one that had unraveled experience as a relationship. She was a publisher. Yeah, exactly. Otherwise, the other five are just new to this format. And you can tell it's just a bit of growing pains. And then, like Lunar Owls. This isn't even really so much like a, you know, getting to know each other thing. It's just, oh, we lost Nafeesa Collier, we lost Ali Sha Cray, and Skylar Diggins hasn't played so far. So, like, what are we supposed to do, you know?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, they've had to, I think, deal with the most adjustments, and they've been probably the one, the team that's been the most like, like shocking of changes. And again, of course, not just because Nafisa Collier has gone out, but just the team looks so different. And if you are. If you were a Hootie Hoo fan last year, it doesn't. It doesn't quite hit the same.

[Sabrina Merchant]

It doesn't hit the same.

[Zena Keda]

It doesn't hit the same. So we empathize with you for sure. Hooty Hoo. Right? Just a little quieter. I'm dead. That's hilarious. Okay, so let's. Let's keep it going. Let's talk about what things look like in terms of, like, any duos or anything. I know we just talked about Rekiya and Paige. That's probably been my favorite duo to see. Also Paige and Dominique Malanga has been a lot of fun. I've been really impressed. Gosh, you actually mentioned all these duos that you're talking about, Alicia Gray and Briana Stewart. I also love the fact that you mentioned Alicia Gray and Veronica Burton that just played three on three and won medals.

[Sabrina Merchant]

That's right. Yeah, I forgot about that.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, they're pretty good at this three on three thing. But are there any pairings that have clicked so well for you outside of. Of those that we've already mentioned that you're like, okay, is this something we should look at in free agency for the W?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think Aaliyah Boston is awesome in this format and whether it's with Natasha Cloud or with Kelsey Plum. Just. She's just a phenomenal role partner for any pick and roll guard. So it really doesn't matter who is bringing out the ball. And luckily for Phantom, they have a lot of ball handlers who can get Aaliyah the Rock. So she's been very good as far as vinyl. I like watching Courtney Williams in this format a lot. Another player who is no longer on Lunar Owls and you know, to see her with whether it's, you know, getting Ryan on those slips out or, you know, giving it to BG in the middle or Deor can be in the middle. You know, Deor can be setting that unrivaled scoring record with 40 points the other night.

[Zena Keda]

Crazy.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Anytime you can get Dear Hamby a good pick and roll guard, like, good things are going to happen. So, yeah, those are some of the combos I like. Other than. Obviously you mentioned every. Every pairing on the Breeze. Just increasing levels of pain and shame for literally.

[Zena Keda]

And they're so young. I think I saw a post or something that was like, you know, we don't have to call the Breeze babies or the young. Like, there was something where we. We wanted to properly address the fact that they were young. Um, and I don't know if it was. I feel like I'm constantly seeing posts about unrivaled. So whether it was on threads or Instagram or something, it was like a. A cheeky post about the fact that we keep calling these the Breeze, the babies of the league, but they're young women that are killing teams right now and they look really, really good.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Also, quick shout out to Brittany Sykes, one of the only players that the.

[Ben Pickman]

Right.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We're just on the same page. I apologize.

[Zena Keda]

I love this.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Taking all the words right out of your mouth. I love it. But, you know, averaging 24 points a game in this setup. Like the Laces, as I mentioned, were my favorite team to watch last year, just the way they played. And it's obviously had to evolve without, you know, a few of the players like Tiffany Hayes and Kate Martin and Kayla McBride. But you got at. You can figure out a style of play. Jackie Young is healthy this year, which is great because the world is always better when Jackie Young is playing basketball. But Sykes, really, really fun and you can tell, like, it offends her that she is no longer on the Rose and this whole team was just hanging out, having a good time and she's off in the wilderness. Not that she's not like winning games, but it's Cool to have that little chip. Like, we already have some of that built into unrivaled, even in season two.

[Zena Keda]

The fact that we have a. They didn't want you in season two is great. Love that for unrivaled. Already building, like more rivalry within this. So this is good. I really like Brittany Sykes. I really have been loving Sinai Rivers defense. Like six blocks, like in a game. What are we talking about? That's been really fun. But I was gonna talk about the defense. Brittany Sykes. Um, we know that that Britney Sykes, Alyssa Thomas duo has been really scary, but really liking some of these individual performances. You already mentioned Jericho Hamby. We know Chelsea gray. She's averaging 31, just under 32 points a game. But what do you make of Marina Mabry popping off the way she has for the lunar hours? Like, she's kind of stepped into. Like, we need something. Yeah, Nafisa's not here, so we need something.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I have not loved watching the Lunar Owls because of all of the absences. And Marina's got very much the good stats, bad team thing going, which happens to her in Connecticut as well with wnba. It's unfortunate.

[Zena Keda]

Such a good point.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Credit to her for filling the usage. But yeah, you know, they got to get Skyler back soon. They got to just fill in some of the talent.

[Zena Keda]

It's.

[Sabrina Merchant]

It's unfortunate.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, that's real. That's real. Okay, let's keep just going around the league. When you think about what we're seeing in Unrival last year, a lot of what we kept saying was, ooh, can't wait to see that during the WNBA season. Angel Reese handling the ball. Ooh, we're gonna see her taking the ball up the court. Aaliyah Boston picking and popping for that outside mid range. Oh, can't wait to see that in the league. And we saw these things, we saw the development of Azerae Stevens be able to see, you know, translate onto the LA Sparks. There were so many aspects of people's games that we saw. What are you seeing right now that you're like, oh, I can't wait to see that? And how that translates into the WNBA whenever the league is established?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I keep coming back to the breeze because it's so relevant for my purposes. But Rekia Jackson being a better defender is very important to the future of the Los Angeles Sparks. They've got so much offensive talent on this team, but her being something of a wing stopper is really important to what is going to have to happen going forward. I thought the, the, the Breeze Rose game was so interesting because you've got, you know, Chelsea Gray, Lexi hall and Azaria Stevens basically wing lead guard and big starting against Paige, Rakia and Don, which is wing lead guard and big. And none of them were guarding their positional archetypes. Right. Like Paige was guarding Lexi hall and Rakia starts the game like guarding. I think she was guarding Azeray and like it was all over the place. Like they had Dom on Chelsea so they could switch a little bit. And just seeing Rickia be a little bit more versatile, more impactful defensively to where she like make plays defensively is so just monumental for where the Sparks are going to have to go because they don't, they don't have any defensive integrity right now. Like, unless Karen Brink just becomes like defensive player of the year and can play 30 minutes a game, which, you know, still building up obviously from the torn ACL and the fact that she's played, you know, fewer games than most rookies in the wnba. So that's, that's one thing. And then also Dom just getting the reps of being like a pick and roll player every single time down the court. We don't know what Seattle's roster is going to look like. Right? Like they have Dom, they have Jordan, Jordan Hudson. God, they have Jordan Horston and they have Nico Mule.

[Zena Keda]

You've been listening to the sports gossip show.

[Sabrina Merchant]

That's all we know. So that team is. Whatever happens in free agency, I imagine it's gonna be very Dominique Malanga focused going forward. So her ability every time down the court to be that screener, to be impactful on every possession and like you could tell at the end of the game she was so upset with herself because she got caught ball watching on Chelsea Gray's like game winner and then didn't box out and Shakira Austin's there for the put back and it's, it's like crap. That was supposed to be my responsibility. So just knowing that like a team relies on you that much is going to be interesting to see how Malanga, you know, accepts that responsibility.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, it's funny, as I'm going through the different players that come to mind, I'm realizing a lot of them are LA Sparks focused as well, like Ray Barrett.

[Sabrina Merchant]

To be fair, there are six LA Sparks in this league. It is the most heavily represented WNBA team. So that's okay. That's part of, that's a really good.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, okay, there it goes. But, but interestingly enough, too I love seeing Veronica Burton just continue this growth from the Valkyrie season. Of course, getting most improved in the WNBA season, but now being able to play along the sides of Alycrae and Brianna Stewart and being able to be the organizer, the floor setter, and also continuing the defense, that point of attack defense of being able to get through screens and all the above. But finding her own shot, we know that she's capable of doing that. She did that for the Valkyries this off season. I think playing alongside the caliber of players of Stewie and Alicia Gray is just great for one, continuing her confidence, elevating her game. And it's nice that, you know, she was on the top of the scouting reports after Kayla Thornton went down. And so she's now getting a little bit of a break where she can set other folks up and really get to understand angles of how to set folks up and how to come off screens or how to see her teammates in the pick and roll. So I think this is going to be really, really beneficial for her. And what that whatever that team looks like moving forward, that is actually the team in the wnba. I genuinely have no idea what's going to happen with that roster next year, but we'll see. Either way, that's the person I'm looking at. Everyone else, it's just reps. It's opportunity to get reps to stay in shape. I actually have more excitement for people's off the court brand building than things that they're building on the court. It's cool to see some of these players get a little bit like, there's Arie McDonald's, Rachel Banham. They're starting in a podcast called Unfiltered at Unrivaled. I'm gonna tell you right now, those are not two people I would have expected a podcast from, but we're getting a podcast out of them. So it's like, I love the fact there's also Encore building, but also off the court brand building. Okay, before we close this out, out of the eight teams, what are your final like now that you've seen one week of the product? Besides the Breeze? Actually, I'm gonna challenge you. Besides the Breeze, who's standing out to you? Who are you most excited to see? And also any updates on that free throw competition?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, you know, I. I genuinely love thorough domination. Like, I know team, a lot of fans like parody and everybody has a chance. I love when a team just gets out every night and wants to win every game and wins every game. That's why I thought The Lunar Owls were so fun last year. So the rose, like them just taking names and like Chelsea Gray being ridiculous from the start has been very fun and I'm looking forward to seeing how that continues to grow, especially if Kylie Copper can come back. I mean, hopefully she's able to play for that Philly unrivaled game. But there's a lot of talent on that team. They clearly know how to play together. They've got their same coaches last year. So the rose, yeah, I think. I think have been really good, obviously, and I like watching really good basketball, so that's been good. As far as the free throw competition, one more prediction that I've made that has aged fine for now. Paige Beckers is leading the free throw competition 100%, but 8 for 8 from the line. There are quite a few players who are at 100%, but they have varying numbers of made free throws. You've got Malanga, Azari Stevens and Veronica Burton all at five of five. So still in the running in case Paige falters. But yeah, it's.

[Zena Keda]

The first pick was Veronica.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Six games. I think they have to have at least six free throws. I know that much. So, yeah, those are the names to keep an eye on. But yeah, Paige is your current leader in the clubhouse. Eight for eight. Perfect. From the line.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. All right. And I love that pick for the rose, Chelsea Gray. I favorite meme. Favorite meme is how to get away with murder. Viola Davis character Annie. Every time she walks away and it's just like she picks up her suitcase, did the hard work for the day, walks out of the room, and every time they say, that's Chelsea Gray walking away from her games. Absolutely right. She's hunted some folks. Picks up her suitcase, walks out the game. It's perfect. All right, let's close this show out. Bet. Come on back with us.

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[Zena Keda]

So at the top of the show I mentioned that I had some special news and I don't wanna let you guys down. It's still here. Just taking a little while to get it out. It's a little bit of a bittersweet news. Today is Ben's last show as a co host on no off season. Thinking about when we started this show. September 2024.

[Sabrina Merchant]

2023.

[Zena Keda]

2023. Yeah. Whoa. Mind blown right now. It is very. It's hard to imagine the show going forward without him. He's brought the energy, he's brought the insights, he's brought the funny jokes. He's brought so much knowledge. So much knowledge. And you've brought energy, humor and heart to every episode, Ben. But alas, which is like my favorite phrase, he is moving on to a new venture which we will talk about at some point in the future, I'm sure. So we're not saying goodbye for good. We're definitely going to have you back as a guest, right? Be good.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. But you know, I thought the news was you signing a 10 day in the WNBA. When is that news coming out?

[Sabrina Merchant]

There's seven days.

[Zena Keda]

First of all, okay, first of all, is this WNBA in the goat movie? Maybe that is possible, but not in the Player.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Is he nada.

[Zena Keda]

There you go. There you go. Maybe a handball player. I don't know.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But Ben, yo hay is cool.

[Zena Keda]

Haw is very cool and I if I apologize.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Ben, you can go.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, we're, we're, we're just. You know what it is? We're derailing from the facts of what's about to happen here and that is that, you know, we just want to say a few kind words. So without further ado, let's give our thoughts. We're just being so awkward about this because we don't want to do it, but that's fine. Sabrina, you go first.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You know, I was trying to think about all of my favorite podcast moments with Ben, and I realize it's so hard to distinguish the podcast moments from every day when I just talk to Ben, because we basically do a podcast on the phone every day. Just 45 minutes. You know, cold. Like, what are we talking about in women's basketball world? And every time I was thinking about, like, okay, when did we have this conversation? Was like, on the record, off the record. Can I bring it up now? Like, I'm not sure I should. So I'm just gonna miss a lot of that. But, you know, I think about all of the funny places we had to record podcasts over the years, like the Cleveland Final Four. We had to just dig through the Cavaliers facility and find this awkward locker room on the side where you, me, and Chantel sat on the floor and recorded a podcast. Or, you know, Xena, me and Ashley Young taking over your apartment in Brooklyn during the 2024 finals. And, like, you letting me stay there even while you were not in the apartment.

[Ben Pickman]

Stay there to get food. We should clarify. All in the name of food. We should clarify.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You know, we started at the Athletic together, and it's just been really, really fun to launch this and really build our section into, you know what I think is just the very best women's basketball stuff out there. So it's unfortunate that we're no longer gonna be partners in crime. I feel like people often associate the two of us together. Ever since we started the video version of this show, people come up to me and they recognize me, and if they see a white guy in glasses next to me, they're like, is that Ben Pickman?

[Ben Pickman]

It's an honor. It is an honor to speak on behalf of so many.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So I'm sad that people will no longer be able to do that.

[Zena Keda]

That's funny. Well, I will follow up. It's so funny that this show is now called no Off Season, because that is actually the first interaction I had with Ben was reading his piece no Off Season, where he gallivanted across Europe. I wouldn't call it gallivanting. He was doing work, tossing international players.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. Trust me, it was the best assignment I've ever had at this company. Company. Five weeks abroad. It was awesome.

[Zena Keda]

It was awesome.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You probably had professionally. Let's be clearly. How can you top that?

[Zena Keda]

And it was great storytelling. I was on the business side at that point. I had not done any podcasting or any Media things really. And I was just on the stories, the business side, reading this stuff, being like, this is awesome. Learning about the European Diana Taurasi and finding out more about basketball that I had not thought about even though I was a former player. And then the opportunity came to be able to do this podcast and it's just been nonstop learning, nonstop insights, nonstop expanding my knowledge of this game that I. I've played and I love. But I do not in any way cover with the same vigor and the same respect that you guys like you have for it. And both of you have it. But Ben, you've been such a great source of knowledge, a lot of fun. I'm going to love every opportunity that I could make you feel awkward. It just is so much fun to watch you just kind of be like, or Asia Wilson. Makes you feel a little bit, you know, like any opportunity like that. It was just, it was. You were always a good sport about it. And so we appreciate you coming on to not only teach us, but have some fun along the way. You were always someone that cared about the pod from like that perspective. You cared about the audience's experience and that is always going to be appreciated and very, very meant. So. Yeah, thank you.

[Ben Pickman]

Well, the good thing, Xena, is you can still have me be the punching bag at all your jokes and all the quips via text and on the phone.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But yes, 100% plan on doing that. I just cannot let that go. Will not be able to.

[Zena Keda]

It's a fun game. It's a fun game. It's a fun game. So Ben, any thoughts for the audience for us as you head on into the horizon to Nets Ventures?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, ironically, I have no thoughts. No, I'm just kidding. For the first time. You know, I'll start here and I think I want to say like I've said a version of this on our wrap up shows over the past I think few months, whether that was at the WNBA finals or at our end of year show just a couple weeks ago, that building this show, no off season, what was once the athletic women's basketball show and seeing its growth has been like one of the true professional highlights for me over the past few years and I think especially over for the last year or so. I think when we launched this show a few years back, we really tried to build something which our curiosity shined right where we could bring you the information that you need to know and bring you behind the scenes on so many of the biggest topics in the sport. But that it also created a space for us to go on deep dives and dive into tangents and just explore the little rabbit holes that we talk about amongst ourselves and in the way that we talk about them. I mean, Sabrina is so right that so much of the like ethos and energy of this show and so much of what I'm so proud of is exactly like what we sound like. It's how we talk, it's how we communicate offline. So for that I am so, so proud. I mean, the good thing I will say the good news for everyone listening to the show or watching the show is it is not going anywhere. We should be very clear about that. I might be leaving the show. Friday, as I announced on social media is actually my last day at the Athletic and as a result my last day on the show, at least in this capacity. But the show is continuing on. You know, I've written stories from around the world, as you said, Xena, the no off season project that, you know, sparked the idea for the name of this rebranded show. I've written stories that I'm so proud of from the sidelines of some of the biggest games just around the country in women's basketball. And you know, I do again really think that doing this with Yuzina and Chantel and Sabrina, like that has been a high point. It was the hardest thing for me to say goodbye to professionally as I weighed what is next was saying goodbye to this show. So yeah, I do want to say couple thank yous before we can end a sentimental segment to end the show. But I want to first say thank you to the people who we don't see in here or that you, the listener, don't see in here. The team of people who support us behind the scenes, who make us look good, who make us sound good, who help us with promotion, who have helped grow the YouTube channel. Want to especially shout out to Nika, who's been with us from day one on this project and Andy, who was a more than welcomed addition and has played a big role in us soaring over the last again, eight months, nine months a year. Chantel, who knows if she'll ever listen to this because she is coming back next week. I'll spoil that news right now. Shantel is coming back unrelated to Ben's departure. Unrelated.

[Zena Keda]

We should be very clear.

[Ben Pickman]

It is totally unrelated. But I'll say this of Chantel, that she brings such a thoughtfulness and level of detail to everything that she writes and discusses. And I know I am personally very excited too to listen to her back on these airwaves and read her work again when she gets back into the writing flow. You know, Zena, you know, I appreciate the kind words on me. I would say it's been a joy to hear your passion and your energy for so many people around the sport and about so many topics like you make the show infinitely more fun. I think you keep it light for us in the right ways. You steer us into weighty and important waters when they need to be discussed as well. And I hope people out there continue to appreciate just all that you bring in terms of a spirit for the show. Show. And then Sabrina. Yeah, Sabrina, I mean, I could go on and on. As you said, we started together. You know, I've said it to you offline. I will say it again and I will continue to say it to people I talk to. Like, you are the best mind in women's basketball media far and away that nobody understands the game as much as you. And more importantly, for the purposes of this job, can communicate what you see and hear with a sense of clarity that really helps readers and listeners and all of us who consume what you produce understand. Plus, I think the quips about the award show at the of this show, your knowledge of pop culture, of fashion, all the little things you're degenerate basketball watching, all the little banter, the jokes at my expense, all the games that we play, like, all that really does make the show what it is. I mean, I will say, as you did as well, Sabrina, like, you know, we've been basically doing this podcast since we started at the Athletic three years ago, talking about the stories we're working on, the projects, who we're talking to. And I'm proud that, that we've brought so many of those conversations to the airwaves with the same energy and insights as we do offline. And of course, as I close it out, none of this happens without the people who support the show, who listen, who watch, who tell us in arenas that they love the show, who confuse me for other people, who see us at All Star and see Sabrina and I walking around and say such nice things, who ask questions in person, who ask questions online. Hearing from so many of you has been a real professional highlight. And so thank you all for listening, for supporting the show. Thank you to all the people who have already reached out to me as I make this professional transition. And I will say this to close like, I will still be in arenas, I'll still be listening to this show. I'll share more about what's next for me very soon. I'm very excited about what my next chapter holds. But for now, again, thank you all for listening, for reading, for supporting this show, my written work, and for all that, I am forever grateful.

[Zena Keda]

Wow. You really gotta go.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So very indicative of this podcast that Ben was so prepared with all of this detail and you and I were just off the dome.

[Zena Keda]

Off the dome. That's the dynamic, y'. All.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I had to jot some notes down.

[Ben Pickman]

I had to jot some notes down. You know, someone's gotta still keep us on track, and we're gonna have to.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Re shape this dynamic next week.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, we're gonna have to get our. We're gonna have to get our lives together, Sabrina. Clearly we are the weak links in this dynamic right now, but no. Thank you, Ben. Incredibly, incredibly well said as always and very indicative of everything that you've done brought to this podcast. We will miss you deeply and sincerely. Guys. What?

[Ben Pickman]

I will miss all of this. As I said, I will miss all of this.

[Zena Keda]

We will miss you deeply and sincerely.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Sincerely.

[Zena Keda]

Invisalign. Gonna get through this. Gonna get through this. And on your point, our friend Chantel is joining the show. And on your point, it is not related to Ben's departure. Chantel has been here from the beginning, and she was on parental leave for the last few months.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Months.

[Zena Keda]

It just so happened to coincide with the fact that Ben is leaving. She is returning. But that means that we will still have a lot of energy, a lot of insight, a lot of intel to share. It just will have to be without Ben. So we'll close it on that. That is all we've got for you today. With the upcoming holiday on Monday, we're going to be back on your feeds on Wednesday, so make sure you keep an eye out for us there. If you haven't already, please follow our show. I know, I know. If you are a Ben Pickman fan, don't hold it against us. Please be back. Okay, he'll be back. He'll just not be a host anymore. But he'll be back and he'll be supporting from the sidelines, so wouldn't you want to be a part of that with him? Keep supporting.

[Ben Pickman]

Don't subscribe. Don't worry. I'm going to subscribe everywhere for the first time. I haven't subscribed previously, but I will.

[Zena Keda]

Be subscribing for the first time. Okay. Be a part of that. Be a part of what Ben Pickman is doing. Make sure you tell your friends to check us out. And of course, head on over to our partner the Yahoo Sports Hub for more content sports.yahoo.com womenssports for the last time, on behalf of the Athletic Sabrina Merchant Ben Pickman, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings and Sabrina Merchant. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagot. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of Women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations.

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