← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
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- [00:01]
Zena Keda
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- [01:23]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [03:23]
Ben Pickman
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- [04:57]
Chantelle Jennings
For the Athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's basketball. Whether you are a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes basketball or just a casual fan looking to learn More. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. Also, subscribe to the Athletics so you don't miss out on year round in depth coverage of the game you love. Joined today by athletic women's basketball writer Sabrina Merchant. I'm Zena Kada and let's go through what we're covering today or what we call ourselves Scout. Today, Sabrina and I will walk through our thoughts on Player of the Year in each of the Power Six conferences. That means the Pac 12, ACC biggies, Big Ten, Big 12, and the SEC. But before we dive in, Sabrina, this is very similar to like the WNBA MVP conversation in having to understand and establish first, how does one evaluate the Player of the Year award, especially on the college level, when there are so many different types of conferences, different types of wins you have to have in order to be successful in these conferences and so many ways that a player can impact a team. I would love to know, where do you start when you start thinking about Player of the Year?
- [06:38]
Mark Schindler
You know, the trickiest thing with these conference votes is that I spend a lot of time thinking about all Americans. And when you're thinking about conference player of the Year, you have to just exclude all of the non conference, right? So, yeah, it's great that Hannah Hidalgo had that awesome performance in stores when they beat UConn. That's out of my mind when I'm thinking about ACC Player of the Year, right? So that's the first thing is like, all right, how do I just focus, you know, onto only those games? Because that's, that's really what I'm trying to focus on, you know, for Big 12 player of the Year, whatever conference we happen to be deciding on. And I do think that there is a certain allowance that has to be made for like, oh, I think this player is generally better than the other one. And part of that is because of the way they played in November and December. But I really want the bulk of the discussion, the bulk of like my thought process to be lasered in on what happens specifically against Big 12 opponents. What happens specifically against, you know, teams in their own conference. So that's kind of the first step is like, okay, let's, let's try to, you know, siphon only the games that matter, right? And that, you know, is surprisingly challenging because like, let's just think about like, you know, the ACC for a second, right? Like so many of Hannah Hidalgo's biggest moments happened on stages that weren't in the acc, right? Like, you Think about the way she showed out in Paris against South Carolina. Not part of the discussion. Right. I'm, like, crazy.
- [07:55]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. No, that's the first thing that came to mind.
- [07:57]
Mark Schindler
Yeah. It's just interesting to have to, like, you know, think about what actually qualifies for these. So that's the first thing. It's just like, let's make a list of all the games that I actually should be thinking about. Right. And, like, it's silly to say, like, oh, I need to write down what teams they played, but, no, I actually do need to do it, because then I'm thinking about just things that happened out of conference when I don't want my mind to be immediately focused in on those. And then from there, you know, like you mentioned, with the mvp, it's a lot of, like, who do I think is overall the best player who had the most impact? Like, minutes factor into this? Because in college, there's just like, a wide discrepancy in terms of how many minutes, like, bigs play, for instance, versus guards, or just, you know, certain players, like, get into foul trouble and aren't available as often. And then, like, how do you factor in injuries? Right. Like, I'm thinking about the Big 12. Aoka Lee, I think probably the best player in the league. She missed quite a few games during the Big 12 season. How do I focus that in? So I wish there was, like, a general principle that I could apply to every conference to make this as seamless as possible, but unfortunately there isn't. I think there is a decent way of, like, okay, these are, like, three or four players who I'm going to consider, and then how do I split the difference, you know, between each of what they do well? So I don't think, honestly, that there is, like, one method that I can apply across the country. I think it kind of depends on, like, okay, how did these players impact their specific conference? I do put an emphasis on winning. That is definitely a big part of it. Like, if you are on the best team in the conference, that is an extra plus in my book. But, you know, it's hard. There's just. There's so much talent. They're all so good. They're so available. And I think, like, you mentioned, like, the diversity of styles in college basketball makes it even harder to evaluate them against one another because they're just not playing the same way.
- [09:34]
Chantelle Jennings
Right.
- [09:35]
Mark Schindler
Like, I look at, you know, let's say the Big 12, like, J.J. quinnerleigh's getting a ton of steals. Well, like, West Virginia presses Of course she's getting a ton of steals. Right. Like, is that more impressive than like, what the defensive job that Madison Booker's doing. I don't know. It's just so hard to evaluate these things against one another that I think that's what makes it such an interesting exercise is I really have to think about what each player does well and how that impacts their team. And that's just different for every single player. Right. Like, what one player is asked to do is different than another. And ultimately it's kind of subjective as to what impact that has upon success. But it's fun to think about because there's just. There's so much goodness around the country.
- [10:08]
Chantelle Jennings
It's really funny that you said that, number one to your first point, about taking the games out that are non conference games. That that's, quote, surprisingly challenging. Not surprisingly, actually. It makes a complete sense that that's challenging because that's what you think about. You know, when you mentioned the injuries, I thought about Sedona Prince. I thought about those undefeated, that undefeated season they had prior to her injuries and how impactful she was in those. When you look at, for example, the Big 12, but now you look at where TCU is and, you know, the fact that she's been out and she's, you know, been able to come back but still not having the same impact. I also was thinking when you were talking about like different types of teams, the run and gun teams or the run and gun conferences versus the ones that operate in the half court set, how do you evaluate players that perform really, really well in those conferences where they're running and gunning and they're playing lots of fast transition defense versus set presses. And I'm thinking Ohio State. Right. It's just, I think that's what makes the tournament so fun, is because you're finally seeing all of these teams since the non conference, of course, but you're seeing these teams that have gotten better over the year than what they were doing in the non conference games come back together and mix up with each other. And now these teams are having to scout each other and these are new teams that they haven't seen all season and you're seeing all these different type of playing styles come together. Okay, that's just very, very interesting. I did not even think about removing non conference and then all the above. Okay, so winning matters to you a lot. That makes sense. And before we dive into these conferences, I will just. I think there are two of the six we listed where it's Like, I think the work's been done for us, and that is the Big east and the Big Ten. And the two players were coming to mind are, of course, Paige Beckers and Caitlin Clark. Thoughts on that?
- [12:05]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I mean, I mentioned winning factors in. So with the Big East, UConn has rolled through the competition undefeated in the Big East. It was really, to me, is it Paige or Aaliyah Edwards? And ultimately, I just think Paige has been better over the course of the season. So that's where I landed. Leah Edwards won Big East Player of the Year last year when Paige was hurt. Oftentimes UConn player, but, yeah, they're comfortably the best team. She's been the best player for UConn. It is what it is. And then with the Big Ten, I mean, you may have heard Caitlin Singh once or twice on this podcast on the Athletic. She's had quite the season. I did just want to see, like, what J.C. sheldon's numbers look like, what Mackenzie Holmes numbers look like. They're both great. They're both having outstanding years. I thought Mackenzie Holmes, her Big Ten Player of the Year case, is probably stronger last year when Indiana actually did win the Big Ten. But, I mean, it's Caitlin, like, just the volume of production, the fact that she sets up for everybody else, the fact that, you know, you come in to play Iowa and, you know, you're getting that target on her back and she still delivers. The Big Ten is. Is a great conference. Like, I'm sure J.C. sheldon's going to have a great tournament, great postseason. She's had a great year thus far. Caitlin's just been better.
- [13:06]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, thinking of the names outside of Caitlin, definitely J.C. sheldon came to mind. But I thought in the. I mean, Cody McMahon was making a case, or has been making a case for her, you know, new title as well. If I'm predicting, I think she's getting it next year. I mean, Cody McMahon is on a tear. She was on a tear freshman year, I think.
- [13:25]
Mark Schindler
So I'm going to just give you one quick thing to think about. Is Cody McMahon winning Big Ten Player of the Year over Juju Watkins next year. Oh, but we'll get there. We'll get there.
- [13:34]
Chantelle Jennings
Snap. Oh, switch up. Completely forgot about recomference alignment. Oh, okay. All right. Oh, gosh. Okay. All right. We're going to keep that for next season because. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I completely forgot there's some new conference players coming into this situation. Oh, it's going to be fun to watch, though. That is going to be a lot of fun to watch. Okay, so Big Ten, Big East. Appreciate you guys making it a little bit easier on us. So that gives us a little bit more time to now dive into the other four conferences. Let's start out west with the package 12. I was debating in my mind if this was the conference that is the most difficult to assess, but then I was like, the ACC is pretty difficult too, so I want to start with the hard ones. Let's eat the frog. Sabrina, let's eat. Go with our biggest tasks here. All right. In the PAC 12, you go down the list. There are so many impactful players. I don't even know where to start. Lauren Betts, Reagan Beers. Juju Watkins. Like Kiki Rice. Like, we keep. We can just keep going. Like, I know I'm forgetting other names, but, like, where did you start?
- [14:54]
Mark Schindler
So I started with a player who you didn't mention yet. Cameron Brink.
- [14:57]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, my God, yes. Of course. Stanford. Kiki Riafin. There's just too many names, guys. There's so many names, you know? Yeah, of course.
- [15:05]
Mark Schindler
You asked me this two weeks ago. I was making a real strong case for Regan Beers. Then unfortunately, she breaks her nose. She hasn't played the last couple of games or. And State's taking a bit of a dip in those games. And unfortunately, when it's an 18 game conference season, you miss three games. That's a big deal. And that's kind of a problem with Cameron Brink's case too, is she's missed a couple of conference games as well. And when you add onto the fact that she plays, you know, 10 minutes less per game than somebody like Juju Watkins makes a big difference. So I kind of think the. Oh, we haven't mentioned Alyssa Peely, who's just, oh, maybe the most efficient scorer in the country.
- [15:37]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, gosh, what am I doing? What a conference. What am I doing? What a conference.
- [15:43]
Mark Schindler
Yeah.
- [15:43]
Chantelle Jennings
Didn't I mean Jaylen Sherrod.
- [15:45]
Mark Schindler
Jalen Sherrod, right. Colorado having a great year, too. I mean, did you see what Jada Williams did against Stanford the other day? Like, it's, it's been just a delight to watch. But I kind of just landed back on Brink because I think about the defensive impact that she has. And to me, that's the separating factor where, like, she's an efficient scorer. She aces from the foul line. I mean, like, shooting almost 90% as a big is really impressive, especially considering the trajectory that she's taken over the course of her career. I look at Stanford and that just the impact that she has when she's on the court is unlike anybody else on the team. Like even when Kiki plays, it's not the same as when Cam plays. So I think, you know, I looked at juju. Unfortunately, the UCLA players I think kind of cannibalize each other. That's a little bit more of a balanced ecosystem there than it is on some other teams. I just look at Juju's box score sometimes and like it's like 6 for 26. And I'm thinking, I get why you're taking 26 shots, but I wonder if we could do something about this.
- [16:41]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes complete sense.
- [16:44]
Mark Schindler
You know, I'm watching USC against Utah yesterday and she misses like six pull up jumpers in the first quarter. And again those are shots that are being contested. There are shots that the defense doesn't want her to take and she's still finding a way to get open. But I think Cam's efficiency, I think the way she competes on both ends of the floor, the fact that Stanford has been the best team in the conference, they win the outright title, I think Cam is kind of a shoe in for defensive player of the year as it is. And I wonder if OTOs are just going to split. Like we'll get give Cam defensive player of the year and then maybe player of the year to like Juju or Beers or somebody else. But to me, the way that Stanford is so markedly better with her on the court, like you just don't see that on off differential with other players in the conference. So that's where I landed.
- [17:23]
Chantelle Jennings
Okay, completely makes sense. And you know, I cannot believe that that wasn't the first person that came to my mouth when I started listening players. But you're absolutely right. I mean she does have an undeniable market difference in the way even though that their offense runs, her ability to see over defenses and pass out of them. Like, I know we talk a lot about her defensive capabilities, but she's also a solid poise maker for I think Stanford. I think she definitely keeps them poised and keeps them especially in the half court. So, okay, I'm still stuck on juju, I'm not gonna lie. And yes, she does have these 6 for 26 or 10 for 30 games. And there's a lot to be said about that. But there's still three in the conference, third in the conference.
- [18:06]
Mark Schindler
That was the toughest one for me behind a freshman.
- [18:08]
Chantelle Jennings
You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's tough to have that kind of player make that sort of impact. And I don't know, I might be factoring in the fact that she is a freshman and has handled that so well, but I think that would be ageist of me to take that away from Cameron Brink because she's been doing this at a high level since she came to Stanford. So I'm with you on this. I'm with you on this. And the other one for me was not Regan Beer's first, but the other one that I forgot to say. Alyssa Peely.
- [18:37]
Mark Schindler
Yeah.
- [18:38]
Chantelle Jennings
You know, because I feel like the same description that we have of Cameron Brink can be said for Alyssa Peeley. Like, Utah is not the same team with her off the floor. And there's something to be said about, even in the games where she hasn't started off hot, she has still been crucial and key in the ending of games. Hitting the free throws at the time that they need to be hit, being able to get, you know, the. And ones or just getting fouled towards the end of the game to close them. I think she. Yeah, I'm. I'm tied between juju and her for. For second up behind Cameron Brink. But it's.
- [19:16]
Mark Schindler
It's tough.
- [19:17]
Chantelle Jennings
I think you got it on the head.
- [19:18]
Mark Schindler
If Oregon State beats Stanford next Sunday, maybe I'm picking Reagan beers. Like, who knows? It's so close. It's really tight.
- [19:23]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah.
- [19:24]
Mark Schindler
And, yeah, I don't know, it's just a really good conference. And I'm sad they're all going to be split up their separate ways next year.
- [19:28]
Chantelle Jennings
I know. What a finale to the PAC 12. Man, what a finale. Okay, let's go on to the other conference that's probably gonna just have the exact same sort of risk response out of us, the acc. Of course, we've talked about Hannah Hidalgo. Obviously there's Elizabeth Kitley, Georgia Amore. Obviously there's Sanai Rivers. Obviously there's Tanaya Latson at Florida State, even though they're not, you know, they haven't been playing so well, but she's. She's had a really great campaign this year. I'm curious, do you think it's Kitley?
- [20:00]
Mark Schindler
Yeah. So this is. This was the tough one, right? Because, I mean, this was the tough one. As if there weren't other tough ones. That's a silly thing to say.
- [20:08]
Chantelle Jennings
Right. That's my last.
- [20:09]
Mark Schindler
I thought about three players most closely with the ACC. It was Hidalgo, Kitley, and then D'Asia Fair. And, you know, I look at Syracuse.
- [20:20]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Yeah.
- [20:22]
Mark Schindler
It's been a. Just an Eternal source of confusion for me this year is, why is Syracuse so good? And I keep coming back, that Deja Fair is just that girl. Like, when you need a bucket, she gets a bucket. Like, the way she kind of, like, rooked Hannah Hidalgo in both of those games against Notre Dame where she just had these, like, veteran moves that Hannah wasn't quite ready to defend yet, like that. Among the most impressive performances of the season for me. I do wish she was, like, slightly more efficient, you know, but, I mean, they're getting the job done. Syracuse is second in the acc. It's been just a really cool season to watch. I ended up with Kit Lee, though, because I think she, night in and night out, is just the player that, you know is going to deliver you 18 and 10. And more often than not, honestly, it's probably more than 18, now that I think about it. Like, she's averaging 25 points in conference games. My goodness, I didn't even realize it had gotten that high. But she's so hard to defend in the middle. Like, we had Georgia and Liz on the podcast a couple weeks back, and Georgia said, like, I can't do anything without her, right? Like, I don't get open unless the defense is sucking in a little bit, trying to contain Liz, right? Kayla King, you know, Matilda Ek, Livia Samuel. None of these players get their openings without Liz Kitley in the middle. She's. I mean, I don't like to put intangibles into this too much, but she is quite literally, like, the hub of everything that happens in Virginia Tech, where, like, over these five years, look what she's turned that program into. The fact that you just. You come in every night knowing, like, oh, my God, it's going to be just a nightmare trying to defend this six, five girl in the middle. And I think her defense has actually been pretty good this year, too. You know, just like, around the rim, really good at contesting. Just the night in, night out. Again, the fact that Virginia Tech is first in the conference, like, I kind of just use that as a tiebreaker, even though it's not entirely fair to Syracuse because, like, Deja Fair doesn't have the same amount of talent around her that Caitley does, but it all just circles around her, right? Like, you don't. You don't do well for Virginia Tech if Caitley isn't playing well. And the fact that she does play so very well, like 25 and 11 and a half, right? Nearly two blocks. She's even getting some more assists this year. Like, she's a two time ACC player of the year for a reason. Like I think a third is probably pretty reasonable.
- [22:29]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I mean it wouldn't hurt, right? It's not like she doesn't have any more space on her shelf. Also, as the host, I should be giving you guys stats and that's my bad for not doing that in the PAC 12. We'll get back to that. But for Elizabeth Ketley, six in the nation, 23 points per game, six in the nation with 11.6 rebounds. Also 1.8 assists. But this is the thing that is really, I think is very impressive when you're talking about a post player that's putting up the numbers that she is 55.4% from the field, efficiency and taking high percentage shots and I mean six, five, six, six. Yes, that's significant size. But there's other players around the country that are that size and not being able to put the ball in the basket the way she is. On Deja Faris, she's 11th in the nation, 21.8 points per game, 4.5 rebounds for a guard. That is five. Five. That's legit. That is legitimate. Like getting up there, 3.5 assists per game and then also high field goal percentage for her, especially considering the shots that she's taking inside, outside, mid range pull ups. She's got the bag, folks. 38.9% from field. So another really efficient player. Yeah, I do agree with you in the sense that like Syracuse not having the surrounding cast, I mean DHS has.
- [23:50]
Mark Schindler
Got to take some bad shots. Like there's some grenades, you know.
- [23:54]
Chantelle Jennings
But then that makes you think this is like the WNBA conversation. I mean, heck, it's what's going on the NBA right now. You know, the conversation of like for example, right now in the NBA, Jason Tatum being fifth to be, you know, potential MVP in the NBA. People feel as if he's being punished because he's got too much good talent around him. Whereas you could say, you know, Nikola Jokic had a ton of talent around him. He's when he's gotten his MVPs. But do you think about Deja Fair and you're like, hey, you're able to do this without the cast around you. That makes you even more impressive.
- [24:29]
Mark Schindler
Yeah. And that's not to say that she doesn't have like some good players around her. I think Georgia Woolley's had a really nice season. Latham has been just a revelation, honestly. Like didn't really know who she was. Coming in another one of our Sanayas Sinai Wilson in Syracuse having a good year on the boards, but, yeah, I mean, it's just not like the, like the ecosystem that Virginia Tech has, right? Like, with a player like George Amore, you know, so. But it's. I mean, okay, deja fair. Like, we're talking about the player who's fifth on the all time scoring list right now, right? She just passed Brittany Greiner. Like, that's. That's not nothing. Right. She's getting buckets and it's a closer battle than I thought it was going to be.
- [25:06]
Chantelle Jennings
Okay, all right, all right, all right, all right. Let's keep moving because this is. That was a tough one. Those two were really hard. Okay. Pac12 and ACC, I don't think it's.
- [25:14]
Mark Schindler
Getting much easier, but we'll see.
- [25:16]
Chantelle Jennings
You know what? As, you know, as I was about to go, like, you're absolutely right, because I don't know. I don't know. We'll see what happens with SEC, but let's go with Big 12 first. I'm jumping ahead of my thoughts here, and I'm just kind of like, I, you know, say I don't know what's about to happen here. All right, let's start with the Big 12. When I talked to Mark Schindler, when we were talking about bracketology, I told him this was my smoke and mirrors conference. But now I realize that every single conference in this. This country is a smoke and mirrors conference, where every single night, you don't know what's about to happen. There are illusions that teams are as good as you think they are. And then there are some illusions that teams are not as good as you think they are. And every single night, someone is upset, someone is confounded, someone is, whatever it is, exposed. Smoke and mirrors, folks. But this is the one that really, I really feel like this in the depths of my heart. The Big 12, I'm gonna let you start, because every single time I name some names, you're like, that person's not on my list. You know what? I'll say who I absolutely think is my player of the year for them, and that's Madison Booker. And interestingly enough, interestingly enough, my backup to her is actually another freshman, Audi Crooks.
- [26:32]
Mark Schindler
Ooh.
- [26:32]
Chantelle Jennings
So have at it.
- [26:33]
Mark Schindler
Okay, well, I just need a moment to pause upon the recognition of ADI Crooks, who may be my favorite player to watch in the country. Just those post moves. I love it. I love it. She just broke the Iowa State freshman scoring record, so congrats to adi. She did not on my List, alas. But I do love watching.
- [26:51]
Chantelle Jennings
I know, I know.
- [26:52]
Mark Schindler
Yo. Audi crooks at Hilton Coliseum and Audi crooks on the road. Vastly different players. We got to figure that out. Iowa State, I know all of our players, very young, playing five freshmen. Got to figure out this home road disparity. It's a big deal.
- [27:03]
Chantelle Jennings
You know what it is though? I have to go through the challenge that you mentioned of taking the non conference games out of my mind because the non conference games very much.
- [27:11]
Mark Schindler
They showed out against Iowa, you know.
- [27:13]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. That's why I'm just like a little bit tied to Audi crook, so. But anyways, Madison Booker, to me, what she's done in the midst of Rory Harmon getting hurt. Unreal, Unreal. Her being becoming the go to. What are your thoughts?
- [27:28]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I think that context is really important, right, Because Madison Booker comes into the season, she's starting small forward, right? She played the three and the four on the U19 World cup team for Team USA. Like, this is the role that she plays. She plays that for the first, you know, 10 or so games non conference season. And then Rory Harmon, Terrace Oraclam, and all of a sudden she's the point guard. Right. Like that's, that's a big switch, you know, coming from playing the wings to now you are running the team. And this is not a team that, like, with all due respect to some of the other programs around the country, didn't have huge expectations coming to the air. No, no. This is a national title contender. Rory Harmon was supposed to be the point guard for a team that could make the final four. And now you're like, okay, Madison Booker, you do that. But the expectations don't change. We are still hoping to win the Big 12, hoping to make a deep run in the tournament. You need to be that good right away. And I've been blown away. Right. I mean, the turnovers, yeah, a little bit high at the start of the year, but that's okay. Like, she's still 5.4 assists per game in Big 12 play compared to 3.9 turnovers. I like that margin quite a bit. She's shooting 48% from the field, almost 20 points per game. And talk about defense. Like, it has got to be so annoying if you were a point guard and Madison Booker is the one containing you on the other end. She was big. She's fast. I think Rebecca Lobo was the one to say that she already looks like she has a pro body at 19 and. And she has just been so good in these circumstances that we Detailed for Texas, where, yeah, they're one game behind Oklahoma for the Big 12 lead, but I just think her overall body of work is awesome. And I know I said that there was gonna be a tricky conversation here, but it's really not. I think Aoka Lease probably had the best season of any Big 12 player, but unfortunately most of that came in non con. And you talked about Sedona Prince also having a really nice year and Madison Connor too, but most of those games were not in the Big 12. Right. So when you look at just these conference games, I think it's pretty clearly Madison Booker. And what's pretty cool is that she would be the first freshman in conference history to win Big 12 Player of the year. We're talking about a conference that like Brittney Griner was a three time player of the year, but not as a freshman. Right. So, wow. Pretty big deal. And to do that at a position that is not your position is ridiculous.
- [29:25]
Chantelle Jennings
Right. It's so impressive how someone at that age can come in and just say, you know what, I'll do what it is, that whatever the team needs me to do. And Vic Schaeffer is like, he's said that multiple times of just like how much she's just picked up whatever slack he's given her and told her, like, you know, what position you have to be in. I think the thing that I love most about Madison Booker is what you were alluding to of, you know, having her size of a body, her pro body and the physicality with which she plays, but also just how smooth her moves are sometimes I don't think I. I mean, there's very few people at that size coming down the court, full sprint, who can pop on a dime, elevate and just stroke it, full elevation, body perfectly aligned, like stacked on top of each other. She looks like a WNBA pro. She looks like an NBA pro. It's like you played on the playground growing up, didn't you? Because it's like, it's beautiful how much she can use her body to be so physical. Going through the paint, right. And attacking, et cetera, and on defense, but then in the open court, oh, it's gorgeous.
- [30:39]
Mark Schindler
Yeah. I think about one of the first games that she had to start at point guard was against West Virginia. And that press that they run, you know, with J.J. quinerly and Jordan Harrison at the top. And that is a lot to deal with for seasoned point guards. Right. And this is Madison Booker's, I think, fourth game as a starting point guard, the third in the Big 12. And they just crushed West Virginia. Just crushed him. And that's her height. Seeing over the defense, you know, finding their advantages against a press that gives a lot of teams trouble. Right. Like, we just saw what they did to Kansas State the other day. Yeah. It's been a very cool season for Madison Booker.
- [31:10]
Chantelle Jennings
Very cool. Okay, so maybe that was one of the easier ones. We're very much in alignment there. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Now let's go head down to the south, and I just want to give a big prop to the sec, because obviously, the SEC in women's basketball has been really, really great, but it's been cool to see their men's basketball elevate, too. I've never, ever, ever, ever thought of SEC men's basketball as a legitimate conference. And it was very cool. I mean, you know, even seeing LSU women's basketball players storm the court to. To support LSU men's basketball the other night, it's like, look at y'all. Look at everybody in the sec. I love it. Okay, all right, that's out of the way now. So sec, lots of really good players. Lots of. Obviously, South Carolina comes to mind that in itself. That team in itself has a lot of player of the year options, in my opinion, between Raven Johnson, between Camila Cardoso, Tahina Powpow, there's some legitimate options just on that team. And then obviously, you know, cannot deny the impact that Angel Reese has made at lsu. And just what she's doing, her body of work, the types of games she's having, the 20s and 20s games. Right. Like, insane numbers she's putting up, that's pretty much where my attention went to for the most part. What about you?
- [32:33]
Mark Schindler
Yeah, I'm with you. I only really considered players from LSU in South Carolina, and apologies, you know, to the rest of the conference, like Marquisha Davis, Ole Miss spent a nice season. Joel Spear, Tennessee. Like, not to diminish, you know, Mississippi State, like Drakela Jordan, Jessica Carter's having a nice season there, too. It's just. I think the cream of the crap is in these two teams, and it's really challenging because I think the best player in the SEC this season has been Camila Cardoso, but she missed one game playing for Brazil and then another two games as she's been recovering, you know, since coming back from an international trip in the middle of the school year. And then you also look at the fact that South Carolina, by virtue of having nine, 10 capable rotation players any given night, the fact that Ashlyn Watkins is her Backup and is a dominant defensive player and offensive player in her own right, doesn't have to play the same minutes as somebody like Angel, Reese or Anissa Morrow. It's just hard to say that she has the total value, you know, of somebody like Reese or Morrow. And then I think about angel and Anissa and you know, for most of the season, I've been thinking that Anissa Morrow has had the better season for lsu, but that's because angel missed a lot of non conference, right? But that hasn't been an issue in sec. So all of a sudden, like, these adjustments have to be, you know, factored in. This was the hardest one. I think this and the PAC12 were the hardest ones for me because there's just so many ways you can frame it, right? Like, I think Camila Cardoso is going to win defensive player of the year in the sec. I think that's pretty clear.
- [33:51]
Chantelle Jennings
But yeah, I agree.
- [33:53]
Mark Schindler
You look at total player of the year, and I mean, angel, like, look at what she does night to night basis, right? Like you mentioned the 2000s. Like, she's averaging 18.7 points per game in the SEC, 14.3 rebounds. I'm going to repeat that. 14.3 rebounds per game. That's a good number. You know, easy, it's casually, it's okay, casual, right?
- [34:13]
Chantelle Jennings
That's insane.
- [34:15]
Mark Schindler
Anissa Morrow has got her 15 points, her 10 rebounds. I think if I were to pick an LSU player, it would probably be angel over Anissa. But yeah, I'm still not sure if it's angel or Camilla because, like, you think about what South Carolina faces on any given night, right? Every single team wants to be the one that breaks the South Carolina streak. They're getting their chance to play on national television. Everybody's watching them. This is when you put your best performance of the season. Like, I think about that Georgia game on college game day a couple weeks ago where, you know, South Carolina's coming off of this stretch of having played UConn and Tennessee and LSU in the last two weeks. A couple of those games without Camilla. And then they face Georgia, big old crowd from espn, they're, you know, watching them. And Georgia goes up double digits in the first half. And it's like, all right, well, let's, let's do this right. And they still figure it out.
- [35:01]
Chantelle Jennings
Me texting the group chat like, oh, you guys watching this game?
- [35:06]
Mark Schindler
So I think just like what South Carolina has to go up against, I'm inclined to say that Camila Cardoso's had a tougher season, but I think I'm just, like, I don't. I don't even know where I land at this point. I'm glad I'm not an SEC voter because it's. It's impossible for me to decide at this point. I'd probably lean Cardoso. But like you told me, Angel Reese won SC Player of the Year. Yeah, that's great. She absolutely deserved it, you know?
- [35:26]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I think back to the lsu, South Carolina game at lsu, and I think about, you know, when we talk about the factors that add up to Player of the Year, and I think about how key it was for LSU that Angel Reese was in foul trouble and just how different their ability to play was without her. Right. Like, they were not as good when she was out. And she said this after the game, that her getting early foul trouble and then eventually fouling out is what cost them the game. And I don't think anyone had any disagreement with that. Like, I genuinely do believe that had she stayed in the game and not had any foul trouble and spent those, you know, key critical minutes in the. In the third quarter, in the fourth quarter, fourth quarter on the bench, I think they could have won that game. So that's what kind of makes me lean towards angel, just how much she not only impacts what's offensively, what's going on for defensively, what's going on floor, but also just the identity and personality of lsu, like, how much they believe in themselves even. Whereas I feel like with South Carolina, maybe it's because they have such a robust cast of people that can step up. I mean, like I said, you know, Raven Johnson, Tahina Pow Powell, Brie hall, like, it goes down the list. Ashley, of course, we talked about Ashton Watkins, too. But, like, when they're all not playing well, there's someone that can come in and play well. There's someone that's got their back. There's someone that, you know, that's gonna figure it out. When Angel Reese is not playing well, I feel like it impacts the whole roster.
- [37:03]
Mark Schindler
Yeah. LSU cannot win without Angel Reese playing well, whereas South Carolina has literally won games without Camila Herdo.
- [37:09]
Chantelle Jennings
So even playing correct, and that's what I think makes Angel Reese more impactful as a player, which is what I would. I would give her Player of the Year.
- [37:17]
Mark Schindler
That's fair. Yeah, but.
- [37:18]
Chantelle Jennings
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, my God. We got through it, guys. We got through it. That was. That was not easy. I feel like give us this week of games, we may completely switch it Up.
- [37:30]
Mark Schindler
Yeah.
- [37:30]
Chantelle Jennings
Like, could be completely something different. But no, I think. I think this was fair. I think we did a good job. I think of, you know, breaking that down. So, Sabrina, when do these announcements come out?
- [37:40]
Mark Schindler
The conferences announce their players of the year when the regular season is over. So before the conference tournament, but after the regular season. So we're recording this on Monday. By next Monday, these decisions should have come out.
- [37:51]
Chantelle Jennings
Okay. All right, well, then we'll. We'll be able to check in and see how we were thinking about it, if it matched up with what the conferences were thinking. I know one conference that we didn't talk about that I have a particular hold to is the Ivy League. And I have just one player that's on my mind, and that's Abby Shue from Columbia. I just think she is unreal. And Abigail killing it. They just. Columbia just took down Princeton. Very impactful player for her team and I think has really elevated in her four years. Elevated. The Columbia program, they should find a way to be ranked. Like they should be bringing in recruits because of what she was able to do for Columbia. So of course, you know, Princeton has a squad, don't get me wrong. But I think if we're talking about player of the year, impactful looking at non conference, just conference play. Yeah. Columbia's. Abby, I'm with you. That's. That's my choice for that. All right. If there's anyone else that you want to mention, Sabrina, I'll let you do that real quick.
- [38:55]
Mark Schindler
No, I think you're spot on with Ivy. Yeah. What a game that was, right? Columbia, Princeton the other day. I hope we get a encore of that during the conference tournament next week.
- [39:02]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, yeah, and the conference tournaments are about to be fire. This is where everything we've said all season just like goes.
- [39:08]
Mark Schindler
All bets are off now.
- [39:08]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, it's just like all bets are off. You never know who's going to show up when. It's going to be the madness, before the madness, and I'm very, very excited to be able to watch it. Okay. All right, so we've gone through all of our players of the years. Those announcements will be coming out within the next week. All these senior days are happening. Tears are just flowing. But then also big wins are happening. It's a lot of fun. And now we're also getting ready for March Madness. So I want you all just to make sure you are subscribed to this pod because Mark Schindler will be back. We're going to do more bracketology. We're going to be breaking stuff down. Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman. So much coverage coming into this March Madness tournament. And we also want to hear what you guys want to hear about. So make sure to comment, hit us up on the socials, let us know if there's, you know, particular thing we can break down, make more, I don't know, accessible for you, make it make sense for you. I mean, we can't make sense of the Big 12, but if there's anything that you think that we could help you with, please let us know. But before we go, I just want to do a little quick Set your screens. All righty. This is Set your screens. Basically the part of the show where we tell you matchups that we at the Athletic will have our eye on and that we're encouraging you to set your screen to. And I've got a few this week that I am watching as well as some of our writers. So first up, Wednesday, this upcoming Wednesday, number one, Michigan takes on number two, Ohio State. I said number one as in like that's the first one I'm mentioning, not number one Michigan. So Michigan takes on number two Ohio State. Last time they played Michigan, 16960 and Michigan was able to keep keep Cody McMahon to just five points in her last three contests. She is averaging 17 a game. So I'm sure she's going to be a little bit, you know, vengeful. I'm excited for this rematch and it's going to be at Ohio State that same day and time. It's going to be 7:00pm Eastern, 4:00pm PST. Number three, Texas takes on number 20, Oklahoma. If you guys remember, Oklahoma took that first meeting 9187. Crazy game. They were unranked at the time. They're now ranked. They they've beaten a few teams in the Big 12, done a great job there. And Madison Booker back in that game, 29 points. Shay Holly had 22 points. Wasn't enough because Oklahoma had all five of their starters having at least 13 points. They were offensively balanced. They were beautiful. Vic Schaefer, I remember him saying in his post game conference like we just didn't play hard. They had an edge. We didn't have it. So I know he's going to be getting his team ready for this matchup. So I'm very excited for that one. On Thursday, number five Virginia is going to take on number 17, Notre Dame. Virginia Tech is rolling. They've won their last five games, including two ranked opponents, Louisville and NC State. The NC State game was fun. So I'm sure they're coming in. They're going to be feeling good going into Notre Dame and every time we can see the Liz Kitley Georgia Amore show obviously want to keep that going. Ketley hasn't scored under 25 points in her last five games and Amor has had 10 or more assists in three of her last five games. So that duo is still being dynamic. And on the other side, Notre Dame, they've won four of their last five. Hannah Hildalgo obviously the big reason why she's leading them in points, she's leading them in assists, she's leading them in steals, she's doing just about everything. But don't worry, she's leaving some space for Maddie West Bell and Sonia Citron, who's come back in and having a really great second half of the season. They've been really great contributors. So very much exciting. Like I'm excited to see this. Notre Dame is one of the teams that's I believe tied for third in the ACC. They have an 115 record in the ACC, so I'm sure they'll be hungry to try and take down the number one team in Virginia Tech. And then Wednesday and Saturday night, the Washingtons. I'm keeping up with the Washingtons and that means Washington, the University of Washington, the Huskies and Washington State. Now of course Washington State has not been the same since they lost release Ledger Walker. Clearly they were when they had her. They were able to take down number two UCLA at one point. So they've been struggling a little bit. But again this is closing in on their senior night. This is them closing out the season. You just never know what kind of inspiration might come about for Washington State. Now on Washington's side they beat Oregon State, a still good team even without a rig and beers and they've come close to beating Stanford. So the two of them are going to be flip flopping with Utah and Colorado obviously two really great ranked teams in the Pac 12. So I'll be watching the Washingtons. Washington State, Washington on Wednesday, Saturday night and then on Sunday morning starting with Tennessee, South Carolina. That's going to be a matchup folks. They going to go at it all right. Their last meeting like the score doesn't really tell you the truth. They were close all the way up until the fourth quarter and then South Carolina just took over. They outscored Tennessee 187 in that last quarter, but all the way through it was bucket for bucket and they weren't easy buckets. They were going at each other. So this should be a fun matchup. And then at 12:30, the North Carolina girl in me can't help it, Sabrina. It's going to be some of your folks going up against some of the Tar Heels. Okay, Duke versus Carolina on Sunday. Always a great rivalry game. Duke wanted 6860 last time, and having known Courtney Bankhart, the UNC coach from her Princeton days, she's a competitor. So I'm sure they're gonna be revved up and ready to go against the Blue Devils. So that's who we're gonna be setting our screens to. Hopefully you'll have your scenes set because the end of regular season is coming about, folks, and conference tournaments are happening. So if you've got some seniors that are, you know, imprinted on your heart, these are your last times to be able to see them in regular season season. Make sure you tune in. All right, Appreciate all of you listening in today. Again, hit that subscribe button on our show. Leave us comments if you have any topics you'd like for us to cover or questions for our writers. For now, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for your ear and encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're gonna keep growing it until next.
- [45:23]
Mark Schindler
Time.
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Tony
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