← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Kamilla Cardoso's Debut Plus--Are the Connecticut Sun really the best team in the W?
00:40:31
Loading summary
Transcript68 lines
- [00:00]
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or when which accounts you should prioritize and shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Whether you're looking for new clients or strengthening relationships of current accounts, LinkedIn Sales Navigator has a new AI feature designed to help sellers find the right people and get right to the right conversations, all at scale. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.combaseballshow that is LinkedIn.combaseballshow for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:16]
Wayfair
Summer is almost here and there's no better place to go for outside furniture than Wayfair. Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor essentials will help you make your outdoor space more comfortable, functional and most importantly, more you. Get your outdoor space rated today so you can enjoy it all season long. When you have kids, they love to be outside, so you gotta be out.
- [01:38]
Zena Kaeda
There to watch them.
- [01:39]
Wayfair
From Wayfair, you can have outdoor sofas, maybe a set of chairs, a gazebo, some umbrellas because it's really hot down here in the South. No matter the need. Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style and every home, no matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. Free and easy delivery even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for patio furniture. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more shipped free. Find all your outdoor must haves from seating to pool lounges to trampolines all in one convenient place. Shop a huge, huge selection of outdoor furniture online this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [02:46]
Liquid IV
Love looks different for everyone, especially when it comes to all the ways you treat and celebrate yourself. I'm a big hammock head. Sunshine, a hammock, a paperback western. That's my kind of everyday indulgence. And you can gift yourself the everyday indulgence of Extraordinary Hydration with Liquid IV powered by Liv Hydro Science. Visit LiquidIV.com to fall in love with flavors like the zesty new hydration multiplier, sugar free Raspberry Lemonade and use Code no dunks to save 20% off your first order. Liquid IV is easy and convenient. You just tear, pour and enjoy. It's my go to when I'm getting a pump in or handing out buckets, but it's great for staying hydrated during long days, enjoying the outdoors or any other time you need some hydration in your body. Liquid IV offers so many true to fruit flavors. Whether they be hydration multipliers like acai berry, lemon, lime and pina colada, or sugar free like raspberry lemonade, white peach and rainbow sherbet. The flavors are always true to fruit, break the mold and your own ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone because Liquid IV is powered by LIV hydroscience, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You're getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink plus plus eight essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at Liquid IV when you go to Liquid IV.com and use code no Dunks at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code no Dunks@liquidiv.com.
- [04:51]
Zena Kaeda
For the athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here as always to talk all things women's basketball. Again. Whether you are a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes the game or you're a casual fan looking for a safe space to talk about it because we know it's wild out there right now, folks. Make sure to subscribe to this pod wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. Also, subscribe to the Athletic. We've got in depth coverage. We've got more than just the superficial storylines like We've got True Basketball Talk on our site, so make sure that you are locked in. I am joined today again by athletic women's basketball writers Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman, as always. And let's go through what we're going to cover today or what we like to call the scout number one, undefeated Connecticut. Okay, Put some respect on their names. That's what we're going to do today. We're going to talk about all the things that are making them an amazing number one ranked team right now in the W and of course, undefeated. Then on the topics of UN's, we'll continue with Unrivaled, the new league that is going to be launching at the top of 2025. We're going to talk a little bit more about the details and developments that have come out about that league. Some very exciting news for people that want to play in it, but also those that want to watch it. And then last but not least, we will close out with that new front court duo in Chicago, Camila Cardoso finally taking the floor alongside her rook classmate Angel Reese. We'll talk about how that game went down, what Camila Cardoso looks like, and what's in store for Chicago's future now that they have the building blocks of a Cardoso and Reese. And guys, don't worry, this one podcast, of course, we're going to cover all this information, but we will be having a separate podcast to address some of the craziness that unveiled itself on Monday in the women's basketball world. Make sure to check out that podcast, too. For now, let's get into it and start talking about Connecticut. Ben, Sabrina, let's be real. Did you expect an 80 run out of Connecticut?
- [07:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I mean, I didn't have Connecticut in my top two of my power rankings to start the season. So I think it's fair to say that I was lower on them than what they have achieved so far. They are only the seventh team in WNBA history to start a season. 8. No, the prior six all advanced to the WNBA Finals. Three of them ended up winning the title. So the sun are in a good, a good spot right now. You could say, you know, just based on historical precedent, obviously the season is longer now than it was when most of those season those teams started 8 0. So it's a shorter percentage of the season. But I think it still holds well that, you know, this is a team that's figuring out how to win close games. We saw how they executed down the stretch against Dallas earlier this week. They had that one point overtime win against Minnesota, a bit of a controversial foul call, but again they got the job done. They had a close one against Indiana earlier this year. So they're doing clutch time execution. They've got a few blowout wins in their ledger and I mean you just look at Connecticut and they have Alyssa Thomas, Dewana Bonner and Brie Jones. And I don't know if there are three players outside of Las Vegas who know how to play together as well as those three. Do you combine that with reigning coach of the year Steph White? There's just a lot of pieces that came in that we should have known were going to work well together. I guess part of my concern was RE Jones coming off an Achilles injury tip. Hayes, their best guard during the playoffs last year, retires from the wnba. Right. Natisha Heideman out a new backcourt that's coming in to take the place of those players. Just what was that adjustment period going to look like? And I guess the answer was no. There's no adjustment period. We have the three stars, we have our three front court dynamos and everything else around is kind of just window dressing. Not to like diminish what Ty Harris has done or what dijonay Carrington has done, but I really think it's our three players know what they're doing in the front court. Everybody else just has to hit a couple shots, play a little defense on the perimeter. But this is where our bread is buttered and those three are just having awesome, awesome starts to the season.
- [09:25]
Zena Kaeda
They just look so comfortable out there and it's so true that those three have played together so long and they know each other so well and when you're seeing these kind of end of game situations where they're close, they feel comfortable. There was like a few timeouts in their, in their game against, I think it was Indiana a few games back where I saw Dijonay Carrington go up to dejuanna Bonner. Close game. Under six points within the last four, the fourth quarter. And dejuana just felt calm and I felt that she was the same way. In the Chicago game when Alyssa Thomas had been ejected for her foul against Angel Reese. Dewana stepped up in the midst of Thomas leaving and Breonna Jones stepped up getting the rebounds, still smiling in her, in her interviews or in game interviews, she just. They both always seemed, or, excuse me, the three of them always just seem in control of the game. But I'm wondering if Brianna Jones is more of an impact than what dijonay Carrington I think, has been adding to the backcourt. Ben, when you look at that, the fact that Breonna Jones has joined that three, that threesome, or Dijonay Carrington joining the starting five, which one would you say has been more of an impact to you?
- [10:42]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I think Sabrina hit it on the, hit the nail on the head in talking about the importance of the guards. Like, I think Bree Jones, she's an all star center, a most improved player, you know, a sixth player of the year in her pass, and she is super, super important. But like last year in the postseason, the whole conversation around the Connecticut sun was, you know, what are you getting out of their guards and are, what are you getting in terms of them able to knock down shots and break down defenses off the bounce and so that they now have a few options who are consistently doing that I think is so, so additive. I mean, Bree Jones, though, we should acknowledge she's been really, really good as Sabrina was talking about since coming off of this injury. And so the fact that you're kind of getting everything coming together at one time is how you get off to this undefeated start that we're talking about. The thing that I think, you know, stands out is like Connecticut last year was the number two defense overall in the league and they were the best three point shooting defense overall in the league. This year, admittedly a small sample, of course, they're 8 points better per 100 possessions, something like that this season than they were last year. Like, you can't score on Connecticut like there you look at all their defensive metrics. You know, they're at or towards the top of the league in terms of, you know, point opponents, points off, turnovers, opponents second chance points, fast break points. Like, they don't, they just simply don't give up baskets. And certainly nothing easy. It's just like at every category, like they close things down so, so well. And so to see them make that jump while folding Bree Jones back into the fold I think is one of the things that's so impressive. The thing I will also say is I think back to opening night and I was there, you know, in Connecticut as they played the Fever. And Steph White kind of made a comment post game that she was basically, in other words, excited to like show the world just how good Alyssa Thomas is. And Dewana Bonner was on the podium kind of and made a similar comment, basically being like, I want to remind people that like last year was not a fluke for 80 and we should say that like, you know, 80 was my vote for MVP last year. She was my first place vote. And she has picked up right where she left off. And it seems like every night you come away she has a near triple double. She, you know, her ability to rebound the basketball, push, pace, create offense right away without having to give it up, like, is so, so important. And she is again establishing why that like, you know, last year, certainly not a fluke. She is, you know, in the top three of best players in the world right now. And some nights she very well is number one or number two.
- [13:03]
Zena Kaeda
I see you been trying to avoid my question. So I'm going to say that your, your answer is Bree Jones coming back into the fold here and then the guard plays, picking up with Ty Harris, Dijonay Carrington coming up or coming into that starting position.
- [13:17]
Sabrina Merchant
Now, I think what's interesting about, you know, the Alyssa Thomas season is last year she had to do all of this because Brie Jones was out with that torn Achilles for essentially the entire regular season. And it kind of shifted the way Connecticut had to play. They had a lot more space on the floor because they replaced Bree Jones with Rebecca Allen, who's a three point shooter. And Alyssa Thomas is basically point center at this point. Right. And she's doing everything. She's bringing the ball off the court, she's defending every position. But she also has a lot of room to work with in the paint because everybody else around her was a capable spacer. So I was a little concerned about what it was going to look like just, you know, geometry wise with Bri Jones coming back in because she's fantastic back to the basket player, but again, back to the basket center, like she's a traditional post. And so what does it look like when you have a player like at who for all of her gifts, is not a traditional spacer. Right. She doesn't have a jump shot. So how does that fit back in with another center? And you know, you're bringing in Dijonay Carrington into the starting lineup who shot well, but like limited volume of three point attempts last year. And I think what's so cool about Connecticut is their just chemistry together is so good that like, even when their spacing makes absolutely no sense to me, they still find the little pockets of passes to make that things work out. Like there was this play against Atlanta the other day where, you know, Bree Jones and Alyssa Thomas are basically on opposite sides of the basket. But like essentially both in that dunker spot. Dijonay Carrington cuts to the basket while two players are still there, and the possession still ends in a made layup. And it's just like, how is that possible when all of this action is surrounded right around the rim? But they just know how to play with one another so well. They're. They're able to, like, read each other. And I just think it's. It's just, like, a fascinating team to watch. And like, I, you know, Ben and I talked about this a lot last year. Like, I didn't vote for Steph Wyver Coach of the Year last year, but making another compelling argument for coach of the year this year. Eight games through the season, for sure.
- [14:58]
Ben Pickman
The point about, you know, the reintegration, I think, is a really interesting one in the context of the Connecticut sun, because you think about continuity and like, this core, in theory, has been together for a long time, but in truth, if we look at the Connecticut sun, say, since, like, 2020, and we will throw John Paul Jones into this conversation as well, there actually haven't been that many seasons in which, like, all of them have been together and available at the same time. Right. So to Sabrina's point, like, this is a little bit of new ground in some respects. Right. The 2020 season, JJ did not play in the bubble, and that was a breakout season for Bree Jones, who, you know, blossomed that year. The following season was the 2021 season. That was a year that Alyssa Thomas, I think she played just towards the. The very end of the year. She dealt with, you know, injuries, and I think she played just, like, very much at the end of the year and in the postseason, like, off the bench in a really sparing role. And that was like a Bree Jones, John Paul Jones, and Dana Bonner season. The 2022 season was a season in which everybody kind of came together. And the whole conversation that year was about Kurt Miller trying to make the geometry fit. Just, we're going to go on this theme about, like, this was a season in which AT was healthy, Dewana was healthy, JJ was playing, and Bree Jones was kind of coming off the bench as this, like, you know, all star.
- [16:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Level, super six woman.
- [16:17]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, super six woman. And she had a great year. But the question was, like, they were toggling lineups literally, like, all season long. It was just a big conversation like, which lineup is really the best and who can you afford to sit? And what happened in the 2022 season, even with some questions and confusions about, like, their best lineup, they made the WNBA Finals and played the Aces. Right. And lost three one in that series, obviously, next last year, JJ's out of the picture and Bree Jones gets hurt. So it's a little bit of a different story. So, you know, this is a group that has a lot of continuity, but yet at the same time, like it's not every year that everybody is playing together, which I think speaks to, you know, why they've been so impressive this year. It only adds to that case.
- [16:55]
Zena Kaeda
And what's so impressive is the timing. It's so early that Bree Jones is getting integrated and this success is being found. And you think about the fact that, you know, I'm not sure how many practice days Connecticut sun have had in the midst of them having eight games. They've had more games than most teams in the W so far and they're already gelling. They're already having that chemistry on the floor as you guys are mentioning. I'm. I don't see, I don't know. I don't, I don't really see anyone stopping them. They, they find a way, like you said, Sabrina, they find a way to figure it out in tough situations, at tough end of game situations. You know, getting there, using their defense. I saw their ending against, you know, the Dallas Wings being able to stop Matty Sigrist from getting that last minute, you know, bucket that was, you know, those are the types of plays that they come together and they, they get the work and the job done even if they find themselves in a dicey situation. So Connecticut sun just seemed to be rolling right now and I'm very, I'm very curious as what's, what's going to happen when other teams start to gel a little bit more throughout the season and the wear and tear of the season catch ups, you know, catches up to, to more teams. But as of right now, I don't see anyone stopping them.
- [18:10]
Ben Pickman
I mean, not to splash a tad bit of cold water on our conversation, but you know, they haven't played the Liberty yet, they haven't played the Aces yet, they haven't played the Storm yet. You know who I think kind of are some of the best teams in the league. Of course, like they beat Minnesota in overtime and Minnesota's gotten off to a great start, but you know, they've played Washington. You can only play who's on your schedule and we don't have to run through the eight games. This is not to slight them, but like two wins over Indiana, Washington at some Atlanta, Chicago, like everyone is competitive in the wnba, but they haven't played, you know, the toughest schedule objectively to open the year either.
- [18:48]
Sabrina Merchant
Just to counteract that real quick, Obviously they haven't played the toughest opponents yet, but as I mentioned in the power rankings, Bree Jones is only playing 23 minutes a game right now. So you up her to like 30, 31 all of a sudden that raises their ceiling even more even as the caliber of their opponents goes up. So, you know, it's an interesting question, like, are they, is this as good as they can get or do they still have another level to unlock?
- [19:09]
Zena Kaeda
I was just going to say they might have another level to unlock. When you're thinking about the fact that their starters are kind of, I'm not going to say chilling, but they're definitely not being exerted to the level that these other big teams are. And I will also say, yes, they have not played the Aces, yes, they have not played the Liberty, but they have played some teams that have beaten those teams. So you just never know. All right, well, let's keep it moving, okay? Because the Connecticut sun are doing that. And let's go ahead to our next topic, which is this new league that's happening Unrivaled. So this was kind of peppered into the media last year where Nafisa Collier and Briana Stewart were telling people we are launching a new option alternative for people or women's basketball players to play in outside of going overseas. Sabrina, tell us a little bit more about the unrivaled league.
- [20:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. So as you mentioned, this is a league that takes place during the WNBA off season. Stewie and Afisa announced the idea last July and it is set to launch in January of 2025. So this coming WNBA offseason. And the idea is it is a domestic alternative to going overseas and they'll be playing three on three. So a little bit less wear and tear than traditional five on five, which is of great importance, especially for players like at Stewie's age in her career where she's, you know, getting to the other side of 30 and you just want to make sure you're not playing year round basketball all the time. But the thing is, like, people have tried domestic alternatives to overseas before and the problem is nobody's watching and there's not enough money in it. Right. Like they go overseas because that's where the paychecks come from. So the big selling point that unrivaled debuted last week is that this is going to be the highest average salary of any women's professional sport in America, team professional sport ever. Right. So we're not talking about like, you know, tennis Golf, those big name athletes. Like, we're not talking Serena Williams money here, but this, when we talk about team sports, this not the wnba, not hockey, volleyball, any other women's sport that's happening in the United States, this is the one that's going to have the highest average salary. And considering that the WNBA's average salary right now is about $120,000, that's a decent number, especially for about 10 weeks of playing during the off season. So, you know, $120,000, 10 weeks, 12k a week. That's a good number. That's the kind of number that can get you to not go overseas and actually spend some time in the US And I think what's cool is like it just benefits everybody from the WNBA for this league to succeed because you want to continue to grow the star power that the WNBA is developing, right? Like we talk about, you know, why didn't Asia Wilson have a shoe? And it's like, well, because from October to February, like we never talk about Asia Wilson, right? Like she's just existing in the ether and like she's around, but not really around. Like what is Asia Wilson doing it? Like, you know, the NBA tries to bring her out at all star weekends and, and promote her here and there. But like to actually have these players performing their craft and be visible to a national audience is really important for them to just stay in the conversation, for people to again remember that they exist and for their momentum to feed back into the WNBA season. So like when I was talking to the founders of Unraveled last week, I thought the most interesting thing was that two of their sponsors are David Levy and John Skipper, who were the former presidents of Turner and ESPN and they negotiated the last NBA media rights deal. So they are the ones who are going to be in charge of taking unrivaled to television networks and making sure that this product is on national TV for people to watch in January, February and March, ideally ending before the start of March Madness because let's face it, like, nobody wants to compete with March Madness. But if you actually get a non WWMA product on TV for people to watch with names that they recognize, this is not fringe WMA players. These are the very best of the best. This is Nafisa, this is Stewie. They have already signed other all stars to their league. Like I just think that makes a lot of sense in terms of keeping the visibility up high, right? Like you just want to make sure that we're talking about the WNBA for longer than just its five month season. Think about how much the addition of free agency has helped the league. You know, just have a conversation during the off season. This is just another component to that. So, I mean, obviously we're going to see like what TV deals they end up getting if people are actually interested in watching three on three. But I think the individual components make a lot of sense in terms of developing a counterpart to the WNBA for sure.
- [23:42]
Zena Kaeda
And it's going to be in January, February, March, so eight weeks. Right. And then the teams will have three players each or four players. I believe it's like 30 players.
- [23:54]
Sabrina Merchant
So it's a 30 player league. And there will be teams of five, so 16, but they'll be playing three on three, so they'll be subscribed.
- [24:01]
Zena Kaeda
Okay, so how does this, if at all, conflict with the other domestic league in women's basketball?
- [24:07]
Ben Pickman
Athletes Unlimited, we still don't know, as Sabrina was saying, when unrivaled is going to end. But last year, Athletes Unlimited, their Week 1 draft was at the end of February, February 24, and they began play on February 29, and then ran through the month of March. So there might be a little bit of overlap. But potentially Athletes Unlimited, you know, if they were to move their footprint back, say two weeks or three weeks, then maybe one season in theory could flow into the next and you could see, you know, players from Unrivaled potentially join Athletes Unlimited and suddenly you have a little bit more of a, we'll call it like winter season for WNBA players domestically. And I think that is one of the things that I'm personally very interested in, because right now one of the trends in overseas women's basketball is a lot of players are going, you know, just for half the year. The biggest names they will play maybe the fall or they'll go over, you know, in February, which is what someone like Kalia Kopra did this past year, going to Turkey in February and playing the rest of the season there. So if you're able to kind of build out unrivaled Athletes Unlimited into kind of a fuller, competitive offseason, then you still allow yourself as a player some time for rest in the fall, and then you kind of play this winter season and it serves as like a tune up for the wnba. And the footprint you're then getting as a women's professional basketball player in America looks a lot more like the footprint that an NBA player has in terms of just the amount of months that gameplay is actually going on. One of the questions also then I have for unrivaled Is will still some players go overseas after the unrivaled season ends, even if it ends in March? Like I'm cautious generally about saying that this is a full alternative for overseas women's basketball. It definitely will be. I think for some people and some of the biggest names, if they can make the money that then they don't feel the need to go overseas. They won't. But like some of the rates that the top clubs in Europe pay even for a month of action is worthwhile for the biggest names in the league. Like you can make a couple hundred thousand dollars in a short amount of time just by going overseas at some of these clubs to close out a Euroleague season and potentially compete for a Euroleague title. So frankly, it wouldn't shock me if there were still players who played an unrivaled and then ended up going to play in Turkey or they went to go play in France next year or you know, a country that is competing for a Euroleague title. It wouldn't be fully surprising in my mind. But I do think we will cut down on the amount of players who are going overseas in, you know, February and March as a result of this league starting up.
- [26:46]
Zena Kaeda
That's something that their, their investors are going to have to hear and know. Especially if you want people to be in a situation where they feel healthy enough to play in unrivaled and then go into the WNBA season. They don't want to potentially risk anything going overseas and things of that nature. I'll say this, not only, I mean Sabrina, you wrote about some of the investors, Carmelo Anthony, Gino Oreyama from UConn, Steve Nash and Megan Rapinoe. I mean there's just tons of high profile names involved in this league. I just love that it's in Miami in the winter. I think that's brilliant. It's a great opportunity. When you think about wanting people to be visible and to be at these events, being courtside at a game in Miami is like ideal. As a person that used to live in Miami and used to go to those Heat games, I was not courtside people, people, but I used to go to those Heat games. It's fun. It's a great, it's a great opportunity and it'll be a great opportunity for people to be like, you know what, I want to go down to some watch some women's basketball in some warm weather and enjoy pro level basketball.
- [27:51]
Ben Pickman
Cena, you're not allowed to make weather comments like that. You live in California. Okay?
- [27:55]
Zena Kaeda
Like I live in Northern California.
- [27:57]
Ben Pickman
I live in New York. I like cold winter snow. You know, Chantel, she's living in Minneapolis, like in the Midwest, or if you lived in Wisconsin or Illinois, like, those people can be like, excited to go down to Miami for the summer.
- [28:09]
Zena Kaeda
Listen, Sabrina is the only one on this entire podcast that can't say a word.
- [28:14]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't ever say a word about weather.
- [28:15]
Zena Kaeda
You don't. And I appreciate you. The Bay Area Big Ten country is different. Okay, it's not a Big Ten country, but it's cold. It's cold. I now understand why all these kids that were in my college had these, like, rolled up puffers everywhere. Coming from San Francisco, I was like, it's warm in San Francisco now. Lies, lies, people. It's the fog.
- [28:35]
Sabrina Merchant
Just one more thing that Unrivaled is doing that I think is really smart is to get these first 30 players in the league this year. They are offering equity in the league for the first 30 who join. So that really incentivizes the very best of the best to want to come in and come in early because you've got to make a splash right away because it's not the kind of thing where they're going to dilute it for every set of players who joins in 20, 26 and beyond. So if this works, and when you have a name like Stewie attached, when you have a name like Nafisa Collier attached, this is something you want to be part of right now. And I think that makes a lot of sense to try to incentivize the best in the WNBA to try to come now and develop it as a product first by offering that equity stake.
- [29:16]
Zena Kaeda
That is brilliant. That is brilliant. And right now, with these women wanting to grow their portfolios and grow their investment and if, especially when you think about not wanting to go overseas and wanting to be able to make money at home, let's say Brianna Stewart is.
- [29:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, you know what?
- [29:32]
Zena Kaeda
I'm good on Unrivaled. I'm playing on unrivaled. I'm just going to go and enjoy the game. And then you've got the Stars of the Stars playing in this game and you're able to make money off of that. Like, that's awesome. That is amazing. I really love that idea. And I'm excited to watch Unrivaled and yes, Ben, I'm excited to go to Miami one day and enjoy Unrivaled. All right, well, then I guess I'll be.
- [29:54]
Ben Pickman
I am too. Xena.
- [29:55]
Zena Kaeda
There you go. There we go. We'll be sitting, hopefully sitting in Warm weather, close together, watching this together. Oh, and one more question before we go off this topic. It is in the half court, right?
- [30:06]
Sabrina Merchant
So it's not half court. It's like a two thirds full court, but there's still two baskets.
- [30:12]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, got it.
- [30:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, so it's a modified three on three setup. Yeah. So you still have, like, transition, so to speak.
- [30:19]
Zena Kaeda
I thought they were going 90ft, and I like, Like, I was like, that's ridiculous. Like, a full basketball court would be crazy to play three.
- [30:27]
Sabrina Merchant
It's like 60ish feet.
- [30:29]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, 60ish feet. Okay, good, good. Good to know. All right, now let's talk about a beautiful front court developing out in Chicago. And, you know, I just. I remember when I was in high school, me and my best girlfriend. Still my girl today, Bianca. Hey, girl. We were both really tall and in the front court, and, you know, we were called the twin towers. We were skyscrapers. And I feel like, you know, Chicago has their new development, Dallas has theirs. Right. When you think about Tierra McCowan and Kehlani Brown, now Chicago is trying to battle for who's got the best backcourt. I mean, front court. And that is starting to develop into Camilla Cardoso and Angel Reese. And we haven't even really seen Isabel Harrison come back into the mix for Chicago. Like, she's been at the games, but, you know, of course she's coming back off of injury. Camila Cardoso made her debut, and she. She reminded us what she was at South Carolina and what she's going to be in the W. And what was so fascinating to me about her performance was that she just did what she's good at. She wasn't doing anything that was kind of out of character for her. She didn't develop any new crazy moves. She was in the right spot at the right time, rebounding the ball, finishing lobs, being able to get some offensive rebounds, you know, playing great defense and just being highly, highly efficient. Sabrina, what can you tell me about that debut? I know you talked. You wrote about this. You. You've looked at that game. Don Staley had a lot to say about that game. What stood out to you the most about Camila's debut?
- [32:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I'll say the number one thing is that this is a very Sabrina question to ask, because we're talking about the Chicago Indiana game and leading with Camila Cardoso.
- [32:13]
Zena Kaeda
Who.
- [32:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Who? Not. Not one of the top five topics to come out of that game, but absolutely not.
- [32:17]
Zena Kaeda
But we'll talk about that soon. Don't worry, folks.
- [32:19]
Sabrina Merchant
No I mean, I think all of us were eagerly anticipating Camila Cardoso getting to play in the WNBA for the first time just coming off of that season that she had at South Carolina, most outstanding player during their Final Four run. And like you said, just looked exactly like you hoped she would look, right? Being big inside and, you know, easily finishing those passes. You know, Ryan Ruko and Rekka Lobo are talking on the broadcast about how guards have to go through this adjustment of learning how to play with six, seven. And I'm watching Kennedy Carter and she's like, no, this is easy. Like, I just put the ball higher.
- [32:47]
Zena Kaeda
Three dimes, easy dimes. She was like, oh, this is a. This is a bonus. Thank you. Appreciate it.
- [32:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Every. Every center would be thrilled to have a point guard who is that willing to get the ball to them, especially in their very first game. I thought it was telling that, you know, games coming down to the wire, last five minutes. This is a Commissioner's cup game. You know, this obviously has some stakes. Theresa Weatherspoon closing with Angel Reese and Camila Cardoso, like, that's, that's what this season is for Chicago. We need to know what that front court is going to look like going forward. And you have Elizabeth Williams, who's been fantastic this season, tremendously good on the defensive end. You have Brianna Turner, veteran. Obviously, you're working at Isabel Harrison. You know, they've been playing some Mikel anyone at small ball four. But no, they're two rookies. They wanted to see what they could do down the stretch. Obviously, like, some difficulties for Angel Reese with that Indiana post. Defensive Aaliyah Boston, some difficulties for Camilla Cardoso with the fouls. Like, she had five fouls in limited minutes. It's a thing that rookies have to deal with. It's not just camera print, guys. Every rookie has to figure out how they're going to call the game in the wnba. But I, I was just really impressed that Theresa Weatherspoon trusted them enough to close that game out down the stretch. The fun. Aaliyah, Boston, Camilla Cardoso matchup. Obviously, Boston getting the better of her with that and one to essentially close the game out. I just thought, like, she looked exactly like you'd hope she looked. I don't really want Camila Cardoso putting the ball on the floor at this point of her career. Like, every time she had to dribble, I was like, we got other people who can do this right now. But when she was in her favorite spots, it looked just like it did at South Carolina, which is just very heartening for what this season can look like for Camilla and just all of the room she has to grow still going forward.
- [34:21]
Zena Kaeda
For me, I got chills. I'm not even a lot of you. At the. Towards the end of that game, I'm not sure what timeout it was, but there was a particular shot of Angel, Reese and Camila Cardoso going to the free throw line and they like, kind of dapped each other up. And I was like, this is crazy. Think about this. Just a few months ago, these two were battling at each other's throats on the court, pulling hair, all the above. And the professionalism, the comp, the competition within them to be like, no, you're my teammate, you're my homie. And it is gonna be fun watching those two develop into All Stars, develop into these big presences. Presence like a big people with big presence. I don't know if you can say that in the Pearl in the plural or not, but people with big presence on the court and also off the court, there's so much fun off the court too. But it was really encouraging to know she didn't miss a step because sometimes, you know, rookies will need a little bit of time to adjust from injury or whatever it is, and you lose the pace, right? You lose being able to stay up with the game and being able to go into the wnba, and I'm happy so she was able to get in early on. Ben, when you think about what Chicago has to do in order to get to the next level, in the past, they had, most recently Candace Parker. The year they won the championship had Candace Parker. They had a good group around them. And then she left and it felt as if a huge void was created. And Dana Evans and Diamond to Shields were trying to kind of reinvigorate, I think, their back core and reinvigorate that team, but it just never was enough. And of course, Kaliha Copper was there and it was like, okay, maybe this year will be Kali Copper's like, year where she takes them to the finals or takes them deeper into the playoffs and then she leaves from Phoenix and you're like another void created. Now there's this possibility of angel and Camilla filling that void that was created when Candace left, I feel. And then after, with Khalil Copper leaving, what are your thoughts on that?
- [36:30]
Ben Pickman
I think Chicago needs Rhys and Cardozo to really develop and frankly, they need to have it happen relatively quickly. You know, this is a franchise. They don't have their first round pick next year, so It's a team that we saw Jeff Paglioka, their first year gm, he's been aggressive already, making moves, pretty fearless, I would say, in terms of, you know, trading their franchise centerpiece in Kalia Copper to the Phoenix Mercury this past offseason. So, you know, if one off season is any indication, there's no reason to suspect he won't be active again next year. But because they don't have a first round pick, they're gonna have to really wheel and deal a little bit. And you know, they have a ton of front court depth. Sabrina mentioned it, like, Elizabeth Williams has been one of the best rim protectors all season. I believe opponents are shooting less and 35% against her this year, which is really, really impressive. You know, Brianna Turner has been a really high level defensive player in Phoenix throughout her whole career. Like this is a loaded, loaded front court. But consistently Chicago has made these swing trades. We saw them move up in the most recent WNBA draft to kind of get the player that they wanted. And you can certainly quibble with what they gave up. I believe they gave, you know, a second round pick really to move up one spot, a future second round pick to move up one spot that they then used to take Reese. But all of that is basically a sign that says we wanted to get our players that we wanted in the building this year. And that was recent Cardozo. And so if those players pan out, then a lot of the moves on the periphery, you know, become a little bit easier to make. But they certainly, they've invested draft capital, they certainly are investing, you know, with veterans around them who, who can be mentors and teachers, players to go up against in practice to learn a lot from and vice versa. There's a lot of investment there. And we should also say like Marina Mabry, she's gotten off to a pretty good start this year and you know, there's certainly like room for her to grow. Like her and Angel Reese. I believe they only have five pick and roll baskets together. So like, if you just look at that, like they have not developed a pick and roll chemistry this year that we typically associate with great guard big combos. So there's room to grow. And Dana Evans has continued to blossom. She's someone who, you know, overseas basketball has been really good for and she's playing a bigger role than she has in the past. But they're going to need to invest in the guards. But if the bigs are stars, a lot of the other moves become a lot easier to make. And the roster as A whole takes shape a lot clearer.
- [38:57]
Zena Kaeda
I'm happy you mentioned Marina mid range Maple. I love her mid range game. It is just so on point. And maybe that's why the pick and roll baskets have been low too. Because when she's coming off, she's, she's looking at the basket. She's looking to get that little, that midi off. I mean, maybe angel and Camilla can be the duo to fill that void. And they have wonderful veterans coaching them and helping them in Elizabeth Williams and Briana Turner.
- [39:27]
Ben Pickman
One other thing though, that I think is going to be important to watch as it relates to the Chicago sky, and you alluded to this when you set up the conversation of the mass exodus is how does the franchise as a whole invest in this team? Right. Because that is something that, you know, Chicago is frequently a franchise that comes up in WNBA conversations about are they doing enough or what are they doing to, you know, invest in their player experience. We saw Kalia Kopper, you know, in a preseason press conference this year, talk about like how grateful she was just to have food access, like constantly in Phoenix this year. You know, Chicago is one of these franchises that practices in basically a public gym. They've upped their police presence. I learned earlier this season to like, you know, buff up their security while they're practicing there. But like, they don't have their own dedicated facility. And that was, you know, a big thing for a lot of these players when they left the Chicago Sky. Courtney Vandersleet goes from Chicago to New York, a franchise that, you know, has heavily invested. Candace Parker, you know, talked about it last year when she joined Las Vegas, getting her own locker in Las Vegas because Chicago, again, like didn't have their own facility. So, you know, it's great that they have these front course pieces and ownership has said that they're trying to build and find space for a practice facility. Easier said than done in say, you know, Chicago, where real estate is a little tighter than, say, Las Vegas, you know, where you can, you know, find anywhere on the map outside of the city and just kind of find a bigger plot of land. But, you know, if they're not investing in the franchise, I do still think their ceiling is a little bit limited.
- [41:00]
Zena Kaeda
And everyone remembers what Angel Reese's press conference looked like and that being a very indicative marker of what is going on. Why is her press conference in a high school gym? There's barely any press there. The, you know, there was comments about the fact that there, she barely had a welcoming committee there on site. And so Those types of things will absolutely need to be addressed if you want this, this duo, and particularly this team to take it to the next level. All right, I appreciate you guys insights on not only Connecticut unrivaled, but also Chicago. Before we go, we still have to talk a little bit about that Chicago Indiana game, as you mentioned, Sabrina. But I would like to thank you guys for your insights before I let you go. Any games you're locked in on to watch this week?
- [41:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I am probably the biggest WNBA Commissioners cup fan in the media, maybe among all WNBA fans. I just love an in season tournament. It's so much fun. So every game this week and next is a Commissioner's cup game and there's some really good ones. We've got New York, Connecticut. You know, as Ben mentioned, Connecticut has yet to play the Liberty. So that'll be a fun one. Really important for Eastern Conference standings. Seattle's got some big games coming up this week like they've developed. They've put together this nice little win streak, but again, against some opponents where they should have won those games. Now we get to see them against Vegas, you know, Minnesota. So I'm just really excited for those. I know that we came into the season thinking Vegas and New York were the class of the east and the west, but I would really love if the Commissioner's cup was not another Aces Liberty game.
- [42:35]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, no, I get, I get that. I actually, I'm keeping an eye out for the undefeated team playing the winless team. Cause you just in those games, you never know what can happen. Washington Mystics are taking on the Connecticut Sun. I don't know.
- [42:49]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't know.
- [42:50]
Zena Kaeda
I just, I really, I want Washington to get a win. And how crazy would it be if Washington got a win over Connecticut Sun? Like, how crazy would that be? You just never know the time.
- [43:00]
Sabrina Merchant
My imagination doesn't work like that. Cena.
- [43:02]
Zena Kaeda
Okay, I know, I know. What about you, Ben?
- [43:04]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean the two, I guess one game on Tuesday night when this releases, New York plays Chicago. Chicago just beat New York, you know, in Barclays center, was a surprising upset and blew them off the floor in the preseason. So, you know, obviously preseason results don't count in the same way, but New York talked a lot about how they were especially motivated entering their matchup, their first regular season matchup with Chicago and then they lost. So it will be interesting if, you know, Chicago now back at home, is able to pick up basically a third win this season over the Liberty. The franchise, you know, Seattle, I think, calling out their games is a good shout. And what what's going on with Phoenix I think continues to be really interesting. They're just a really fun team to watch and like the guard guard action between Copper and Cloud and Taurasi. You know, you can't get enough of watching the Phoenix Mercury right now and just seeing their bigs just never stop moving and screening all the time. It's just I'm excited to dive into their game. They play Seattle on Tuesday night, they play Minnesota on Friday, among other matchups for them.
- [44:08]
Zena Kaeda
I'll tell you what, it is so messy. Every time I see a tweet that's like, you know, girl Dad's team is really good at offense and I'm like, y'all are so messy. No, seriously, Nate Tibbets offense shout out to him AKA if you see Girl Dad. That's who they're referring to. The Phoenix Mercury head coach Ben Sabrina as always, thank you. Thank you so much for your insight. Appreciate you breaking some stuff down. Very excited to continue watching Connecticut on their their streak and also seeing Chicago develop and as I mentioned, can't wait to get to Miami for unrivaled all right folks, again, don't miss our emergency podcast pod that has been launched by the time this is out. Definitely I want to cover some of the other things going on in the WNBA specifically media world for now. Appreciate you guys listening as always. Thank you for your ear and on behalf of Ben, Sabrina and the athletic, we are encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to keep growing it until next time.
- [45:16]
Ben Pickman
Foreign.
- [45:22]
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get discovered. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com creditcard this podcast.
- [45:48]
Aura
Is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers, and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark web, blocks data brokers from selling your information, includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [46:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Acast powers the World's best Podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [46:48]
Zena Kaeda
Hey guys.
- [46:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything, but most importantly ourselves. I'm Paige desorbo. I'm Hannah Berner. Welcome to the squad. Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time. But of course we can't be managed, so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.