← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Listener Mailbag: Biggest Surprises? Can UConn Go All the Way? + Coaching Legend Tara VanDerveer
01:06:05
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- [00:01]
Zena Kada
21 year old flaw J Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flaw J's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, the this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like flaujay can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more.
- [01:01]
Sabrina Merchant
Take your plans out of the group chat and get long weekend ready in new Abercrombie. From day to night, pack new outfits.
- [01:07]
Zena Kada
For every part of your itinerary grabbing.
- [01:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Brunch, throw on the A and F Mila dress, then head to your dinner.
- [01:14]
Zena Kada
Reservation in their new bubble hem mini dress and yes, permission to overpack for pics with the girls.
- [01:21]
Sabrina Merchant
Abercrombie's best selling Scarlet Squirt deserves a.
- [01:24]
Zena Kada
Post in your feed.
- [01:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Your plans are worth it. Shop Abercrombie's new long weekend collection online or in store.
- [01:32]
Ben Pickman
McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of.
- [01:36]
Chantelle Jennings
A Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets.
- [01:38]
Ben Pickman
With spicy nether Flame Sauce now available.
- [01:41]
Zena Kada
With a Minecraft Movie meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters. Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by MassMutual. I'm Zena Kada.
- [02:06]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm Shantelle Jennings.
- [02:08]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [02:09]
Tara Vanderveer
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [02:11]
Zena Kada
Great job guys. Today on the show, as you can hear, we got the whole crew here and we're taking you through your listener questions, all the things that you want to know about how to build your brand bracket, what players are going to be key to the big wins. And then we'll hear Chantel's conversation with legendary coach Tara Vanderveer, where Tara will also answer some of your questions and take you behind the scenes on the tournament. Finally, we'll look ahead to the first weekend of March Madness, what matchups to keep an eye out for and what Players to watch out for. Of course, if you are new here, hit that follow button wherever you're listening so you can stay up to date with us. It's March Madness, so we got a lot of good stuff coming up. Also check out our brand new YouTube channel where we'll be sharing all sorts of videos, including full episodes of this right here. And subscribe because you don't want to miss a thing. Whew. Got that all the way. Now we got to talk about some non college basketball because there's a lot going on in the world of women's professional basketball. First up, unrivaled just closed out. The new 3v3 league just wrapped its inaugural season. And dear listeners, I promise we are going to do a much deeper dive into the league's first season at a later date because right now it's March Madness. So probably after that wraps. But for now we want to talk about what went down for the championship. Earlier this week, the Rose Basketball Club defeated Vinyl Basketball Club 62, 54 to take home the title. Ben, you've been covering the league since the start. You were literally there in Miami when it all kicked off. Tell us a little bit about how the playoffs played out, including the championship game.
- [03:54]
Tara Vanderveer
Yeah, as you mentioned, the championship game was won by Rose Basketball Club, which is led by Chelsea Gray, who was your finals mvp. You know, it was a really, really intense final game on Monday night. Chelsea Gray actually hit a half court shot to give her team the lead over Vinyl at the end of the third quarter right as time was expiring. And then into the fourth quarter, Rose never really looked back. Chels scored 15 points in the second half. She finished with 18 points, eight assists. A really, really strong performance. A bit of a surprise outcome though overall because all season long, Lunar Owls, which was the team that had Nafisa Collier, Skyler Diggins Smith, Alicia Gray, among others, that was really the team to beat. They were 131 in the regular season and they didn't even make it into that final game, which definitely was a big surprise. They were actually leading after three quarters of their semifinal game, 62 to 52. They were playing Vinyl, which had Ryan Howard, and they blew a late lead, which was pretty, pretty surprising because they had been the best team in the league all year. But Lunar Owls falls in the semifinal, Vinyl advances to the final. But it was for naught because as we said, Rose, led by Chelsea Gray, emerges victorious, taking home the championship despite again not being the best team in the regular season. But as we'll see in March, a single elimination, one game takes off format will lead to some badness. So the timing was pretty apt in that regard.
- [05:11]
Zena Kada
Yeah, it was pretty cool to see the similarities and just how big it means to. You can play great all regular season, but it really matters when it comes down to that game. So now year one for Unrival is in the books. Rose BC takes home the first trophy. How are we all feeling about how it played out? Sabrina?
- [05:29]
Sabrina Merchant
I think you'd have to call it a pretty unqualified success just in terms of the amount of visibility that these WNBA players got during their offseason, the competitiveness that Unrivaled had, you know, from day one till the very end. I mean, we started the season with ironically the Lunar owls overcoming a 10 point deficit in the fourth quarter against Mist on opening night. And then that's how they fell in the playoffs. But just, you know, the level of like intensity that they brought to the games and obviously the experience seemed to play out exactly as the players wanted it to. I will say the volume of injuries is a little concerning going forward as we look ahead to the WNBA season. You know, you look at that title game. Arikewale didn't play, Kalia Copper didn't play, Angel Reese didn't play. And those, a few of those were like long term injuries that I hope do not extend into the start of the WNBA season. But perhaps there's some, you know, research to be done about how this format treats the players during the offseason, just that style of play in particular, because there really isn't a history to look back on as to how three on three, you know, affects availability and things like that. But in the grand scheme of things, it was super fun to have this on, you know, during WNBA offseason. I just liked having WNBA players in my lives for that long, especially with all the social content. And you know, I look forward to seeing what sort of changes happen in year two.
- [06:39]
Zena Kada
I think. Yeah, the social content, the branding, the commercialization of these players was just so fun to see in the time period where they're usually overseas and we don't get to see them and we don't know what's going on with them. I think the biggest thing too was being able to see some of these players develop their game. I mean, we saw Angel Reese take a leap in her offensive game. We saw Kate Martin take a leap. And Chantel, when you're, we are right here in the middle of this very busy period for college players that are going to the draft they're going through their NCAA tournament, then they go to the draft, then they go straight into a WNBA season and some of them then have to go pick up and play overseas. But now Unrivaled offers another option for them to say stateside. What do you think was like the biggest thing in terms of creating another pathway for WNBA players to get extra reps, especially for the younger players. Like how big was this for Unrival to be able to provide that space?
- [07:31]
Chantelle Jennings
It just opens up more opportunities for every player. Right. Whether that's visibility, playing time, meeting other players, I think we'll see probably some cohesion coming into this next CBA negotiation from just players from different teams being around one another and getting to know one another. But I think it also creates excitement for the players coming out of college hoops. We've seen that players like Flage and Paige Beckers are already partners with Unrivaled. So I'm sure that even as this current group graduates, moves on to the next part of their career, like it sort of feeds one another. The, the popularity of women's basketball just continues to grow and a rising tide lifts all boats.
- [08:04]
Tara Vanderveer
But can we just say the biggest thing that you guys haven't mentioned is the financials.
- [08:09]
Chantelle Jennings
Like hello, the money.
- [08:11]
Tara Vanderveer
Angel Reese, a young player coming in the WNBA, she made $50,000 because her team won the championship. She wasn't even in the building. Like that's more than two thirds of her rookie salary. Players on average made around $220,000. They got equity in the league. Like when we talk about one of the significant, the legacies of this league of this first season, it will be a financial, you know, stronghold, a piece of the negotiation that like look at what unrivaled players are getting. Look at what they're, you know, already receiving in this upstart startup. Like what sponsors are behind them. That's going to set the stage, as you mentioned, Chantelle, for the CBA negotiation and for young players who are making $75,000 in the WNBA. Like they made a pretty big chunk of change participating in this 10 week league.
- [08:52]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, in bed. How much did Nafee SA Collier make for winning the one on one tournament?
- [08:57]
Tara Vanderveer
A lot. Like what was it, 100,000, maybe more.
- [08:59]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Almost half of her WNBA salary for one one on one tournament. It was just the financials were incredible.
- [09:05]
Zena Kada
In the right. Exactly.
- [09:06]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Within everything else.
- [09:07]
Zena Kada
Unrivaled. Exactly. And you know, remind me, did Juju invest, Juju Watkins invest in Unrivaled as well?
- [09:13]
Tara Vanderveer
Yeah, we should Say she is an actual investor in.
- [09:17]
Zena Kada
That's right.
- [09:17]
Tara Vanderveer
In Unrivaled. Different than Paige Beckers who are partners and have this nil deal like juju has her money in. And you know, it sets the stage for her to participate in future years. But yeah, different. Slightly different.
- [09:29]
Zena Kada
That is amazing. And you spoke about the CBA negotiations. Of course. There are so many implications for what Unrivaled did in terms of just like the free agency chatter. Ben covered this extensively on this show of just all of those WNBA players being in the same space, being able to have those kind of coffee talks that are actually conversations about do you want to come to my team, should I come to yours? Kind of thing. But now you're seeing some of the aftermath. There's still conversations happening, I'm sure, but recently there was WNBA trade in the midst of Selection Sunday in March Madness. How dare you, wnba? How dare you keep us this busy. But Sabrina, I'm going to go to you break it down. Natasha Cloud is going to the New York Liberty. What are the parameters around this trade?
- [10:11]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, just in an unrivaled context, it's very funny to me that Natasha Cloud started the season as a teammate of Brittney Griner on the Phantom. She played most of the season as a teammate of Marina Mabry on the Phantom and now ends the season as a teammate of Sabrina Enescu on the Phantom. But. But Natasha Cloud, who had been routed to Connecticut during the Alyssa Thomas trade, is now being sent to the New York Liberty for two first round picks. That is the 2025 first round pick, which is number seven in the draft, and the 2026 first round pick from the Liberty. So the New York Liberty bolster their lineup in the hopes of repeating as champions in 2025. And Connecticut gets a little bit of draft assets, you know, as they theoretically pursue a rebuild. Although the front office seems loath to use that terminology.
- [10:50]
Zena Kada
Right. And it's interesting because this is one year in which fans can probably are probably looking around their teams and being like, how the hell did we end up here? There's so many different faces. There's so many different things going on. Ben. This is really an indication of that CBA pending knowing that this is that very small year between before things change financially for a lot of players in terms of what they can ask for their teams and resources and things of that sort. Why was this free agency period and trade period so crazy? And what can fans expect from that perspective?
- [11:20]
Tara Vanderveer
Yeah, really, this free agency period sets the stage for next year when Pretty much all the veteran players, experienced players in the WNBA are free agents, Natasha Cloud being one of them. And so you have a lot of front offices who are kind of operating in this period of uncertainty, not knowing exactly, you know, what the CBA is going to look like, what the salary cap is going to look like, what the expansion draft rules are going to look like. Two new teams coming in in 2026. So, you know, a lot of teams were maneuvering a little bit differently this offseason, and New York being one of them where, like, they see themselves as having a championship window. Obviously, that makes sense, having won last year's championship. And so they part with two draft assets that, you know, they certainly seem to value. And now it looks like they're continuing to push their chips into the middle of the table. They recognize that other teams around them got better and, you know, might be worth trading these two picks, even if it's good young players on cheap contracts for a player who can help them win. Now, I should also say, you know, we don't know the severity of benjulaney Hamilton's injury. She was a relief player at unrivaled and she sustained an injury. And the Liberty haven't really commented on that publicly. But I got to imagine that there's also a little bit of insurance from their perspective in adding a player like Cloud if, say, they have to ease someone like Laney Hamilton back into the season or if she does have to miss extended periods of time.
- [12:35]
Zena Kada
Absolutely. Including that on ball defense. I mean, that was what Nigelane Hamilton brought for New York Liberty, and Natasha Cloud can absolutely help in that regard if need be. All right, well, it is time to switch gears is because we're not going to let the pros try to take attention away from the amateurs. Okay. It is still March Madness. We got some listener questions from you guys and we're going to get into them now. First of all, thank you to all of you who reached out. We got some great ones, so let's just dive right on in. All of us are going to answer a question from who reached out to ask who is going to be the biggest surprise of the tournament. And I'm gonna go first and I'm gonna cheat a little bit, but I'm still gonna say the state of North Carolina. I think that NC State, Duke and Carolina are just gonna show up big time in this tournament. And it's been a while, folks, since the acc, particularly the heart of the acc. You can add Wake Forest in there, but for the sake of this conversation, let's just take them out. But the heart of the acc, the rdu, the Triangle area, has been basketball country for years. When I was growing up, that was where you wanted to go to play legitimate basketball and compete against the uconns, the Stanfords, et cetera. And so I'm, I'm excited. I think this year those three teams are really going to surprise a lot of folks and find a way deep into the tournament. And if you're on our tournament bracket challenge, you will see exactly where I think they'll end up, which you should be signing up for, by the way. All right, let's keep it going. Chantelle, who is going to be the biggest surprise of the tournament?
- [14:11]
Chantelle Jennings
My surprise is caveated a little bit by some player health and availability issues. But I think if Aoka Lee plays for Kansas State, they could be a team that, you know, at a five is really underseated. You have a six, six, six, seven center. And Ayoka Lee has not played that much this season and the game she has played has played fewer than 20 minutes. But I think there's a benefit here where if she's on the floor, Jalen Glenn and Serena Sundel, the three of those players together, have been on campus together since at least 2021. So there's an established chemistry there. So it's not like you're working in a brand new player who's only played 20 games with, you know, the other two most important players on the floor. We've talked about the importance of guard play in the NCAA Tournament. Serena Sundel leads all power conference guards with more than seven assists a game, which is pretty darn good. So you've got some three point shooters stretching the floor. You have Ayoka Lee in the middle holding things down. And when you look at their path moving forward, it would possibly go through USC, who the last time USC saw 6, 6, 67 center didn't go their way. Potentially an Elite Eight game if they win that against UConn. UConn has a 6, 5 center and Jana El Alfie, who's had one hell of a game against South Carolina this season. But other than that, you know, I, I think the money there would be toward Ayoka Lee. So again, if she doesn't play, that's all moot. But if she does play, if she does play heavy minutes, I think Kansas State could be a team that really surprises some people. Sabrina?
- [15:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that Xena left out UNC Greensboro and High Point in that North Carolina discussion. But, you know, we'll get back to that. I will say that my surprise is kind of a cheat. I don't think we're going to get a lot of surprises. I kind of think the number one and two seeds are really, really good. And I'm just expecting a lot of chalk in this particular field.
- [15:50]
Zena Kada
Surprise is going to be that that parody that we've been talking about all year is not existent. There you go, Sabrina. I love that. Ben, what about you?
- [15:58]
Tara Vanderveer
Well, first, I'm just not surprised that Sabrina is voting for no Fun as it relates to her selection here.
- [16:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I like seeing good teams play against one another. Sue me.
- [16:07]
Zena Kada
Hey, that's fair.
- [16:08]
Tara Vanderveer
That's fair, obviously. But I guess in terms of surprises, I'm going to pick a school that I don't think we've mentioned one time in all of our podcast episodes and maybe not even in writing, and that's the West Virginia Mountaineers. I think they could legitimately end up in the Elite Eight and that would surprise a lot of people considering how little we have talked about them on this show. West Virginia will play an 11 seed in the first round. They then would probably play UNC in the second round. They would then, you know, potentially play Duke or Vandy or Oregon. But the Mountaineers are ninth in net rating. They're second in defensive rating. They're second in points off turnovers. They are basically all seniors and juniors in their core rotation. J.J. quinnerly, their star guard, has had the best year of her career. They play a style of basketball that frustrates a lot of opponents by playing press the whole game. If you think about to last year in the NCAA tournament, West Virginia was kind of one of these trendy what if it happens upset picks. They played Iowa at Iowa and it was only a two point game at halftime. And then they played the fourth quarter even. It was really that third quarter when the Hawkeyes, which still had Caitlin Clark then, by the way, pulled away. So West Virginia is a really, really tough out and I actually think this is kind of a, it's kind of a good draw. I'm not saying they're, they're going to go to a Final Four, but like, if we're looking at, you know, below the four or five level, like who could go on a run? I have the Mountaineer circled as a team who could end up, you know, Sweet 16 or Elite 8 here.
- [17:33]
Zena Kada
Okay, interesting. The offense for West Virginia has been a question all year, but you're feeling pretty confident about that. Ben?
- [17:41]
Tara Vanderveer
Yeah, it's not as bad as some people think. And I again, I like that points are bringing endorsement.
- [17:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Ben.
- [17:48]
Tara Vanderveer
If they if they can create turnovers.
- [17:49]
Chantelle Jennings
Not as bad as some people say.
- [17:51]
Tara Vanderveer
Look, if they can create turnovers, I like their chances overall. That is really the difference. Their offense is better than what it was last year and it is still a top 40 offense overall. So again, it's a pretty good team.
- [18:04]
Chantelle Jennings
A note to listeners, Please don't leave a comment on our podcast that says it's not as bad as some people say.
- [18:10]
Tara Vanderveer
That's what people say about this podcast, right? Not as bad as some people say.
- [18:14]
Zena Kada
I'm moving on from that. All right, let's keep it Moving. Instagram user Freethanisa also wants to know, Can Paige Beckers and UConn make it back to the title game and if so, what is the sauce to do?
- [18:27]
Tara Vanderveer
So I think the sauce lies with Sarah Strong playing like the best big in the country maybe or something. That is sounds a little crazy but could be possible here. Like Gino Auriemma says that, you know, she might have, you know the in that group of 10 players who might have the best skill set or most well rounded skill set in the whole country and she really is that good. To me she is maybe the biggest X factor in this whole field because if she plays like a star, which she is fully capable of doing, she can elevate their ceiling like few other players can who might not be like the best player on their team. Because I still think that is Paige Becker. So for me it starts with Sarah Strong. What are you getting if Az Fudd plays like she did against South Carolina, like another check in their favor again, UConn's win over the Gamecocks. To me the most impressive win that any team had all season long doing it on the road in Columbia. If they can replicate what they did in that game, there is no reason why this Huskies team can't become champions for the first time since 2016.
- [19:23]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah Ben, I totally agree with you in terms of Az Fudd playing like she did at South Carolina. If she can hit six threes a game for the Huskies, I think Gino Oremo would be pretty happy with that performance for them. But I think it comes down to three point shooting. Sarah Strong's a great stretch four. She can knock down the three she can play and bang inside a little bit. But they've got some centers on their path to the Final Four that could be pretty challenging. Reagan Beers with Oklahoma, as I said earlier, Aoka Lee potentially with Kansas State, Kiki Iriafen with usc, like, there are some really talented bigs that, you know, maybe Sarah Strong would give up a bit in terms of size, in terms of experience against them. And so I think the real key for them is going to be knocking down three pointers so that if you are sort of trading twos for threes on both ends of the floor, they would still come out on top there. And as that South Carolina game showed, you know, when they can hit threes, that's a huge difference. And if you look at their losses this season, it's, you know, three of their worst seven three point shooting performances of the year. And so I think the three point line is going to be a huge differentiator for them.
- [20:22]
Zena Kada
I'm on the same page with you, Chantelle, especially when it comes to the size. If you can shoot threes and use your Sarah Strong, you can pull out the size and allow driving lanes for your guards to get inside. Another thing for me is starting strong because that's what that game represented was UConn being able to go for the jugular early against a South Carolina team that is known for being able to come back in the after the Dawn Staley infamous halftime speech. Right. Like, you don't want to be in a situation in which you haven't built enough of a buffer early in the game. So I think if not only can, if they can shoot outside and be able to pull size away from the basket and open some driving lanes and also start quickly, they've got a good opportunity there. What about you, Sabrina?
- [21:04]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think Chantel and Ben pretty much covered it. I would not be surprised in the slightest if UConn ended up in the national title game and potentially get some revenge on South Carolina for what happened in 2022 when they lost, you know, three years ago when it was just a very depleted version of UConn, I think, you know, the thing that I've been thinking about with the Huskies is their, their hole. I would expect Aubrey Griffin to get some minutes, but even without her, you know, you've got that post rotation with Strong, El Alfie and Ice Brady. The guards are all healthy. They can even potentially stay at a place in more minutes. You know, Paige Beckers and Sarah Strong both average fewer than 30 minutes per game. And if you up that to like 35, 36, that's 12 more minutes of all Americans on the court. So can't go wrong there.
- [21:42]
Zena Kada
There you go. All right, well, let's keep it going. We got over on the athletic listener Taurean M wrote in and asked. It feels like LSU is being overlooked. Question mark. Yes, a lot of this is due to their lack of front court depth, but you can't dismiss how much they missed the shot making of F.L. johnson. She's presumably healthy now. They wouldn't have to face either South Carolina or Texas until the championship game. Sabrina, you want to take this one?
- [22:10]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah.
- [22:11]
Sabrina Merchant
I think LSU is seated about where they're supposed to be seated. You know, they've beaten a lot of good teams in the sec, but they didn't manage to beat Texas or South Carolina in any of their tries against them. They don't schedule incredibly well during the non conference. But you know, they did beat NC State, which I think bodes well for them in a potential sweet 16 showdown, you know, to get to the elite eight. But I mean their three seed for them to get to the elite eight is, is about the right outcome, you know. And I just look at this team and their, their best player is a 6:1 Anissa Moran. I think she's pretty charitably listed at 6:1, honestly. So do I expect her to get past Lauren Betts? No, not really. And that's just, you know, unfortunately a structural disadvantage that LSU is going to have to work against. So I like Flaje Johnson a lot, I like Mikayla Williams a lot. But we're talking about a lineup where their starting point guard Cheyenne day Wilson shoots 27% from the field. Like that's tough. That's really tough to overcome. And their guard play just has not been good enough to compliment what their stars have given them this season.
- [23:08]
Zena Kada
Have we heard anything about the injury? I know we saw Selection Sunday. Some of you may have noticed that there were some boots out on players including Flaje Johnson and Anissa Morrow, but anything out there in terms of expecting that Flage Johnson be able to play well.
- [23:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Flage was ruled out of the SEC tournament even prior to the end of the regular season. So I think this was extremely precautionary on behalf of lsu. I would expect her to be available during the tournament. There hasn't been any news that there has been a setback of any sort. But I think LSU could probably stand to rest her during round one if they wanted to save her for the second game of the weekend. But if she's not back then like I think that would be a major shock.
- [23:44]
Chantelle Jennings
Kim Mulkey did say in that post selection show that she expects both of them to play and that the boots were precautionary. I think she said something along the lines of like, I don't know why they still have them in the boots. And it's like, well, Kim, you could ask your health and strength and conditioning staff that question.
- [23:59]
Sabrina Merchant
Or just ask them frankly.
- [24:00]
Chantelle Jennings
Or just ask them. Yeah. So I think we should probably expect for them to play, but like Sabrina said, wouldn't be surprised if it's light minutes in order to sort of keep legs and bodies fresh.
- [24:08]
Zena Kada
Okay, well, let's keep it in the SEC and keep it with you. Chantel with our next listener question on the athletic Helmkin asked, how crazy is it to have Tennessee winning it all platoon style? Thoughts?
- [24:24]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm glad this question didn't go to Sabrina, because Ms. Chalk would disagree with that assertion. You know, I have said on the podcast before, I'm on the record as stating that it's not insane to think that this is a team that could, you know, surprise some teams in the tournament. I forget exactly how far I said they could make it before I saw the brackets, Sweet 16 or Elite 8. But even looking at sort of their path to the Elite eight, like it's possible. This is a team that can knock down threes. And when they are knocking down threes, let's remember they made 30 against NC Central earlier this year, setting a record for any basketball game for the most makes. They attempted 63 that game, which is just wild. I bet there are some teams out there that don't attempt that many in a practice, but they're also a team that can miss a lot of threes. They're kind of streaky in that way. If you look at their losses, five of nine losses came when they hit six or fewer three pointers. And so when they're not on from beyond the three point line, they can be a team that, you know, doesn't always have a lot else going on and so but looking at their path, like Ohio State, if they're hitting 12, 13, 14 threes, that's a pretty good matchup. Same thing against Texas and then you get into sort of the deeper rounds, Notre Dame, tcu, like that could still potentially be an interesting matchup that would also require them to be really, really on for multiple games straight, which we haven't seen them put together that ton of those streaks throughout the season, so we'll see. But this is still just the first year under Kim Caldwell, so national title game. I would say don't put all your eggs in that basket maybe, but if you want to have Tennessee going a few steps further than most would say is smart I don't think that's a terrible idea.
- [25:57]
Tara Vanderveer
Okay, so it is crazy. Just to be clear, it is crazy to pick Tennessee to win the NCAA tournament. Let's be clear.
- [26:03]
Zena Kada
Chantel in.
- [26:04]
Tara Vanderveer
Chantel mapped out the case. But like this listener who wrote this question in if, if Tennessee wins the title, we'll send you a prize. We'll cop your subscription to the Athletic. I don't know what we'll do. Like, Kim Caldwell never won an NCAA tournament game. They're not winning the national championship. Not this year at least.
- [26:19]
Sabrina Merchant
And a 5 seed has never won the NCAA tournament on the women's side either.
- [26:23]
Zena Kada
Okay, this is good context to know. All right, sorry, Helmkin. Maybe a little crazy, maybe a lot crazy on social media. Our listener Gabby asked, can Texas make a deep postseason run without a strong three point threat? Ben, you and Mark got into this a little bit on our last show, but for folks who missed that, what are your thoughts here?
- [26:44]
Tara Vanderveer
Yeah, I think the answer is yes, because Texas is basically elite at everything else other than three point volume. They are like top 10 offense, top 10 defense. They score in the paint, they're super efficient. Like they force turnovers. They, they do so, so much everything else. Well, like you can't say that enough. And they have, you know, a player in Madison Booker who maybe is not talked about on the national level compared to some of the other stars of her tier, like she could be the best player in this tournament when it is all said and done. They have an experienced guard on Rory Harmon as well. And we have actually seen in a couple cases like Texas did shoot 24 threes against Notre Dame. Now they lost that game in overtime, but they've shown that they're not totally unafraid though it is like a little bit of a breaking character. They took 17 threes against James Madison, who was a very good team this year, shot 52% on those. It's not how they normally play, but I think they would say that they are capable of doing it, but they just prefer to get hyper efficient good looks around the basket. It will be interesting if, you know, in the Final Four, say they play a team like South Carolina, how do they alter their game plan knowing that South Carolina is just going to sag off of Texas and kind of dare them to shoot. But I do think Texas defense, everything else that they do, the talent on that roster certainly good enough to, to get to the Final Four, which, you know, they're a 1 seed for a reason, 31 games won this season.
- [28:03]
Zena Kada
And if you're a listener. You know I love Taylor Jones and Kyla Oldacre inside. They are my faves as posts. And finally listener Lindsey S reached out to ask am I crazy if I pick Oregon State to win at UNC after what I just said about North Carolina showing up? Yes, you are crazy. But I should ask the experts quick thoughts about that. Sabrina, I'll let you start.
- [28:30]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, we alluded to this during our upset conversation on Selection Sunday, But a number 14 seed has never beaten a number three seed on the women's tournament. So that is one hurdle that Oregon State would have to overcome. Now to be fair, this is not your average number 14 seed. The Beavers did make the Elite Eight last year before the Pac 12 dismantled and their top six players in minutes all transferred elsewhere, all of whom qualified for the tournament so we could have some fun potential rematches if Oregon State manages to win a game. But the thing here with Oregon State is if you look at their body of work over the course of the regular season, the Beavers do not look like a team that could beat the Tar Heels. Like they just don't shoot the ball well enough. They don't have any advantages that match up with North Carolina's weaknesses. But if you just sort of isolate the last 10 games or so, you know, Oregon State finished the season nine and two. They, you know, won their last three games in the West Coast Conference tournament to earn that automatic bid. They're shooting about 40% from three point range over the last 10 games. And so that to me is where you get the recipe for an a giant killer, right? And North Carolina, you know, they're kind of a middling pace team. They don't defend the three all that well. So if you're going to identify a potential for upset, to me, that's it. You need to get AJ Maroc going. You know, Kennedy, Shuler, maybe you know, even Kelsey Reese from distance like that is what is going to have to happen. Just a big barrage of threes, which is interesting considering that's what we identified for Texas and Tennessee as well. But that, that's it. Like Oregon State plays super, super slow and if you, you know, are going to maximize a low possession game, it just has to be, you know, getting more efficient shots than your opponent. And the thing with Carolina this year is that they have been a much better shooting team than in previous years of the courty Banker era. But they are not of the level that Oregon State could potentially hit if they're playing like they did again in their last 10 games.
- [30:13]
Tara Vanderveer
I just saying considering that we all know that this Lindsay S. I think it would be very fun if Oregon was a winner here. This is the great Lindsey Schnell, our colleague writing in who loves the Beavers like no one else.
- [30:26]
Chantelle Jennings
You said Oregon instead of Oregon State there, by the way. So I think Lindsay S Might not be.
- [30:31]
Tara Vanderveer
It's a huge slip. It's a huge slip by me. But yes, it would be great. Super exciting because I know we would all hear from this valued regular listener about the Beavers knocking off the Tar Heels.
- [30:43]
Zena Kada
But Sabrina, Ben, neither one of you answer the question. Is Lindsay S crazy for picking?
- [30:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, you already answered it. It is crazy, but I was outlined the path of how they could get there.
- [30:53]
Zena Kada
Thank you. I just wanted to make sure. I mean, I feel like you're crazy, but I just want to make sure the experts say it. Okay, well on that note, thank you everyone that wrote in and shouted us out and made sure that you got all of your burning bracket questions over to us. I think we did a pretty good job of answering those questions, but we still have another expert on the other side of this break. She's got a little bit of experience in the NCLBA tournament, so we'll leave her to get some of those out of the way. 21 year old flaw J. Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flage's success hasn't come without challenging challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like Flauj can confidently plan and protect their financial futures. All with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more.
- [32:21]
Tara Vanderveer
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this.
- [32:23]
Ben Pickman
But anyone can get the same Premium.
- [32:26]
Zena Kada
Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.
- [32:30]
Tara Vanderveer
So do like I did and have.
- [32:32]
Ben Pickman
One of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
- [32:36]
Zena Kada
I'm Told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com.
- [32:38]
Ben Pickman
Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only.
- [32:46]
Zena Kada
Then full price plan options available.
- [32:48]
Sabrina Merchant
Taxes and fees, extra fee.
- [32:49]
Ben Pickman
Full terms@mint mobile.com Pro baller Lonzo Ball for buzzballs ready to go.
- [32:53]
Zena Kada
Cocktails take 12 buzzballs just dropped their biggest blue balls.
- [32:58]
Sabrina Merchant
Script says Biggie's blue balls.
- [32:59]
Zena Kada
Lonzo take 13 blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz.
- [33:04]
Tara Vanderveer
Okay, let's try a vocal exercise.
- [33:06]
Zena Kada
Buzz Balls. Biggies. Blue balls. Buzz Balls. Biggies. Blue balls.
- [33:09]
Tara Vanderveer
Big balls just drop. Get blue balls this season with buzz balls.
- [33:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Please read responsibly. Buzz Balls available in spirit, wine and malt, 15% alcohol by volume.
- [33:19]
Ben Pickman
Buzz Balls LLC, Carrollton, Texas.
- [33:24]
Chantelle Jennings
Hello and welcome back to no Off Season. I'm Shantelle Jennings and I'm joined now by a true legend and pioneer in the world of women's basketball, Tara Vandiver. Tara coached at Stanford for almost 40 years, from 1985 until her retirement in 2024 with a quick hiatus in 1995 and 96 to win a gold medal with the Olympic team. In that time, she led the Cardinal to three NCAA championships, most recently in 2021 against South Carolina, plus two runner up spots and a total of 13 Final Four appearances. Tara played college ball herself, where she also took classes from the one and only Bobby Knight at Indiana. And in 2020, she surpassed Pat's Summit to become the winningest coach in the history of women's college basketball. Plus, she's an excellent bridge player and most importantly, to my Minnesota heart, she knows a thing or two about lake life and water skiing. Tara, thanks for joining me today.
- [34:16]
Ben Pickman
My pleasure. Thank you.
- [34:18]
Chantelle Jennings
So we're recording this on Tuesday. The tournament hasn't quite started yet, but by the time this comes out, the tournament will be well underway. You have now had about a year to adjust to life post coaching, but is it weird not being on the sideline in March and breaking down film right now and sort of going through all of what you've done the last almost 40 years?
- [34:37]
Ben Pickman
Every March, more than 40 years? Yeah. Because. Yeah, before Stanford, I was in Ohio State.
- [34:44]
Chantelle Jennings
Ohio State, yep.
- [34:46]
Ben Pickman
It's very weird. It's very weird. But, you know, I'm really excited because my sister Heidi is in the NCAA tournament and I'm going to go watch her team and hopefully break down film with her.
- [34:56]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. What is that like? Sort of. When I texted you the other day, I thought what you said was really Interesting. Where you'd sort of thought about the top of the bracket for so long. Stanford is usually hosting when you were leading the team, usually one or two seed. Heidi's a 16 play in game, but obviously you've sort of gotten to see it from the other side. Now. What is it like appreciating literally the different side of so many games that you've played in before?
- [35:19]
Ben Pickman
Well, you know, one of the things that I noticed, I mean, you know, when, you know, I know that there's chatter about, well, who should be a number one seed and that, you know, that really dominated the show a lot. But I was watching the show from a very different perspective because my sister is part of a play in game and I think it's great that she is part of that play in game because, you know, when you're a 16, you're not going to have much of a chance against a one seed. You're viewed as an order for the most part. And especially now when, when there's a lot more information about who the number ones are and everything. And I don't think Heidi was watching, but when the chair of the NCAA committee said, oh yeah, we have six new teams coming in and UC Davis, and it's like it wasn't UC Davis, it was UC San Diego. And I just like know that there might like for some of these young people, it's such a great, great thing to play in the NCAA tournament and to, you know, to at least get their name right, you know. But it was fun to, to watch it and think about it from a different perspective. And I'm so proud of Heidi. They were Division 2 to be able to go Division 1, and I'm so crazy. I said, heidi, you get units now. You know, I've been in the tournament for like 40 plus years and never got units, so this is pretty exciting.
- [36:33]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, yeah. Would you have traded a 16 seed to get some units at Stanford while you were there?
- [36:38]
Ben Pickman
Heck, yeah. My first year, if we'd been a 16 seed, I would have been thrilled. I think that having units is a big, big deal for women's basketball and I'm really excited that that's happening. I mean, why we have been held back for so many years, I do not understand. I mean, because a bigger pot is good for everybody.
- [36:57]
Chantelle Jennings
So in this year of stepping back from coaching and maybe just being a fan of Heidi's UC San Diego team, which we should say plays Southern on Wednesday and the winner gets to play ucla, a team that you are pretty familiar with, I would say so if it does get to that point where you can do some film study with Heidi, I think you'll be pretty helpful in that regard. But I've had a chance to watch you watch Heidi's games before, which you're not someone who is nervous very often, but I think you would probably describe yourself as being nervous in those moments. But we've watched Golden State warriors game together at one point. And what is it like sort of stepping back and just taking in the women's college basketball scene this year? Did you watch a lot of games or did you try to sort of give yourself more space and in this time?
- [37:40]
Ben Pickman
Well, I went to every Stanford game, every home Stanford game that I, that I could. And I have to say, I suffered. It was my nightmare to be stuck up in the bleachers, you know, not being able to get down to the bench. But I'm really proud of Kate and the job that she has done. Just a fabulous coaching job. And they have got great players coming in next year. They're in the wbi, which is a new tournament. And, you know, I'm really excited for her, the job that she's doing. But it was hard, I have to admit it, you know, especially. It was just weird, you know, and you know, you sit up there and you're. It's harder to be a fan than be a coach. As a coach, you can sub, you can take timeouts. You know, as a fan, you're just screaming, so. But I enjoyed going to the games and you know, there, there was a side also that, you know, I would come home and I didn't have to watch videotape, you know, know, but I, I like that. So it was hard. I'll be very honest with you, Chantel. It was very hard.
- [38:38]
Chantelle Jennings
Obviously Stanford didn't make the NCAA tournament this year, but as you said, they made the postseason. Kate pay has taken over and in a challenging year, regardless of anything else, you know, moving into the acc, that cross country travel that they've had new opponents that, you know, weren't as familiar to PAC12 opponents. How did you balance that relationship? You guys are so close. You coached her, you coached with her. You, you've won so much together. But obviously I'm sure you want her to be able to walk her own path as well. But you're also still in Palo Alto, like, still can be a resource. How did you balance that relationship?
- [39:13]
Ben Pickman
Well, I think we balanced it really well. I think Kate, number one, knows that I'm always here if she has anything she wants to talk about or you know, and I rarely went to practice. I might just go through the gym occasionally. And you know, she is totally doing her own thing. And again, I think she's doing a fabulous job and her staff is really equally fabulous. But you know, she knows I'm here for her and I would check in and you know, just, you know, how are you doing? And if she wanted to talk about anything, you know, Kate Stanford graduate, graduate of the Stanford Business School and law school. And those degrees are going to come in handy in this day and age that we're in in this chaos of college athletics right now.
- [39:53]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Speaking of that, we're going to get into some listener questions that sent things in for you. But I'm curious, speaking of this current day and age in women's college basketball, I mean even in the one year that not even one year that you've been out of it, I feel like we've had so much changes whether that's rev share conference realignment units are coming to women's basketball. Finally the new changes to nil, where the NCAA will have a clearinghouse to sort of vet deals potential tournament expansion. I was talking with NCAA president Charlie Baker earlier last week and he said, you know, if the men's tournament expands to 72 or 76, the women's will as well. As you look towards the next five years of women's college basketball, like what changes do you hope we see on the horizon?
- [40:38]
Ben Pickman
I guess the number one thing is that the courts have dictated that we're going to do revenue sharing and there probably are going to be a lot more lawsuits and a lot more chaos. But I think that that is going to happen and it would be nice to have it be more transparent so it's not like, you know, this cloak and dagger wild west, you know, not knowing what's going on with, you know, who's paying what. It would be nice to have a kind of non tampering rule in the same way that the pros have a non tampering rule. Or maybe there has to be antitrust legislation nationally, which I think would be the best thing that we could get. If we could ever get, you know, our Congress and Senate to do that. That would be great. You know, I think going forward for the west coast schools. And I, I don't mean just Stanford and Cal, but usc, ucla, maybe even, you know, even Arizona, Arizona state, the old PAC 12 and some other schools. Washington, we have to get back to regional competition. The Wall Street Journal just put out a map. I Don't know if you saw it of kind of what the Pac 12 schools did last year versus this year. And it's unfair to the student athletes. You know, the coaches aren't going to complain, they're not going to say anything because that would be shooting yourselves in the foot for recruiting. But every west coast school is suffering with the amount of money we spend on travel, the amount of time that student athletes are on planes going back and forth and, you know, and these are young, I think, very resilient people and can be done on the short term, but it is not sustainable in a long term plan nor is it healthy for the student athletes. I think in the short term they should change some of the rules in terms of the number of units or hours that a college student has to take in the winter when they're traveling because all the students go to summer school anyway. So lower that down to the absolute minimum of maybe six units or six hours so that they're not feeling the mental health issues are real for these young people. You know, I think along those lines, the units are great for women's basketball. I think we can improve just all kinds of things in terms of marketing women's sports. If you were to speak with, which would be fun for you to talk to Roger Noll, who is one of the most famous and eminent college economists dealing with athletics, he said over the next 15 years, the biggest growth you're going to see is in women's sports in terms of revenue. And so we get behind not just women's basketball, but volleyball, you know, swimming, softball is a huge, huge sport. And I think, you know, get the pie bigger through promotion, marketing, but then that's also rewarding those athletes, you know, so if we're, if we're talking about revenue sharing, the idea that, you know, that this huge percentage goes to football, well, football does income right now, but that's because a lot of women's sports have never been marketed. I think we should be more visionary about how we divvy up the revenue sharing and how we promote both women's and Olympic sports.
- [43:44]
Chantelle Jennings
Why don't we jump into some listener questions right now? We asked our listeners to send in some questions for you. And our first listener, Lucy wrote on Social to ask you what, what are the first 24 hours after the bracket is announced like for a coach? How do you get film of opponents, make travel arrangements, do media? Like, what do you remember from that time where I'm sure you guys were sitting watching the same selection show, waiting, and then what were those 24 hours, like.
- [44:11]
Ben Pickman
Well, Lucy, I think that's a great question. First of all, I would say that we would have our team go to the selection show. We'd have it usually at Min Maples, and we'd celebrate with our fans. And then I would go into a press conference with maybe a couple of our key players, and we'd be in there for an hour being asked questions about the bracket. And basically my answer was always the same. I'm very excited to be in the tournament. And we're excited about our opponents. And we kind of look at it. We would take it as a mini tournament. Like, we would look at, if we were one seed, we would look at our first two games as a mini tournament, and we'd get ready for all three teams in our bracket. So my assistant coaches would go over to our office and they would start putting together the scouting reports. They would divide up the bracket in terms of who was taking what teams if they'd already had those teams. And we would just get right to just scouting our first three opponents that, you know, our possible first three opponents, our first one opponent. And I would say to our staff and our team, don't look ahead, but you have to work ahead. You know, we're always looking at the bracket, figuring out, you know, kind of the small bracket within the bracket. And, you know, we'd work on our. Our travel right away, you know, putting out when the game is. You know, we do the itinerary of, you know, the hotel. The NCAA would send you a manual of when you're going, what hotel you're in and everything. So our team, basically one of the complications at Stanford was we usually had finals during the NCAA Tournament, so because we're on the quarter system. So it was arranging for whether it was tutors, you know, how you're going to take your final on the road, transportation. And sometimes for us on the west coast, as an example, if we had a. Maybe a Midwest regional, like one year we went to a regional in Kansas and. Or Kentucky, and then the Final Four is in Florida. Well, what do you do? Do you come back to California? So it's planning out all of that kind of thing. And on one of those particular trips, our plane had a mechanical problem, so we had to stay an extra night. And one thing I learned for sure, travel with both sets of uniforms all the time. So you never know who you're going to play, when you're going to play, what's going to happen, and just be ready to go on the road. And so once we left campus, if we were going to a regional or even sometimes do a sweet 16, we were ready to go from there to the next spot.
- [46:29]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, that's interesting. I feel like a lot of times coaches say we're taking this one game at a time, but you're saying, you know, at least that first night, you're looking at three potential opponents, so you're looking at least into the second round. Again, usually in a 116, 215 matchup for you guys, would you ever look further down the road than that?
- [46:46]
Ben Pickman
You know, as an example, if you know that you're a two in a bracket and the one is going to play a lot of zone, you're going to start working against the zone, maybe a little more time leading up to your first and second and third games. You're never looking past an opponent. You're always respecting the opponent that you're playing. You always know that on any given day, anything can happen. And that's. No one knows it more than me. So it's, you know, you're always giving the total respect and attention, but you do have to work ahead.
- [47:15]
Chantelle Jennings
All right, let's check out some of these other questions. Our listener Lena wrote in on Social to ask you what was your most memorable March Madness as a coach?
- [47:24]
Ben Pickman
Oh, wow, Lena, that's. I love going down memory lane. You know, I honestly can probably remember almost every single kind of last game that you play, but I would say that the first time that we hosted a regional was at Stanford in 1990. And what I remember about this tournament that was so special to me was the fact that whatever team we played was the team that was not supposed to win. So, like, the favorite always lost before they played us. So in some ways, every team that played us was just happy to be playing us because they thought they were going to lose in the game before. And that happened all the way through the tournament, all the way through the national championship in 1990. It was. When you played, there was, I think it was 48 teams because we only played five games, not six games.
- [48:12]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I just pulled it up. Yeah. So you played five.
- [48:14]
Ben Pickman
We played Hawaii in the first game, and that was, you know, we. I think we played well in that game. So then we're in the Sweet 16. And the Sweet 16 game, I think, was a Mississippi and Ole Miss.
- [48:27]
Chantelle Jennings
Yep. At Maples.
- [48:28]
Ben Pickman
They were. We played. We struggled. They were really good. Now, I remember it as being a really close game, but then I think it actually ended up being like maybe 13 points. So I was surprised because I went into the locker room, I just told our team, I said, you know, pack for your trip to Hawaii or Disneyland, because if we play like this, we're never going to the Final Four. And the Final Four was in Knoxville, Tennessee, that year. And our regional final, our Elite Eight game, which is, I think, the hardest game to win, actually, we played Arkansas and they were a tremendous team. And we scored, I think over 120 points and it was incredible. We had a six point play where Jennifer Azi hit a three and someone got fouled, and then Katie Steading hit a three and we were on fire. And this was in the old days when the Maples Pavilion had a bouncy floor and the place was rocking. It was packed and it was really exciting because the seniors on that team, Jennifer Az, Katie Stedding and Stacy Parson, as freshmen they were 500, and as seniors, they won a national championship. So we went on to play. We played Virginia in the semifinal game.
- [49:39]
Chantelle Jennings
Don Stedding, I was going to say, I think Virginia had a pretty popular point guard that some people might know.
- [49:45]
Ben Pickman
They had a great team and Don was a fabulous player. But after that game, I went to scout the next game, which was between Louisiana Tech and Auburn. And Louisiana Tech was number one. We had never been ranked number one. They were number one. They were undefeated and they lost in that game. So then here comes another team that lost, and we played Auburn for the championship game. And it was phenomenal. The team was a close team. I call it honey dripping all over you. You're just like, so. It was so sweet. We stayed up all night. You know, you get the newspaper, you're still awake, and the newspaper comes and, you know, we stayed in a. We stayed in this Holiday Inn that I will tell you, Chantel was, you know, now this is in 1990. And so every year we'd go to play Tennessee, we'd stay in that same Holiday Inn. It was a dump by the time we got done with that place. You know, finally my staff said, tara, we cannot stay in that hotel anymore. And I'm like, okay. But it was so exciting to win. And so when I see these teams that do win, I really know how happy they are and what they. And the sacrifices they've made to get there are incredible.
- [50:53]
Chantelle Jennings
Our listener Gabby wrote in on social media to ask you, what have you learned about people you started coaching in 1976. So since 1976, what have you learned about people in your years of coaching? And how has that influenced how you coach?
- [51:06]
Ben Pickman
Well, Gabby, great question. You know, you're constantly learning about people. I don't. People will say to me, well, how do you keep coaching and connecting with, you know, young people? Because things are so different now. Yes, the world is different, but people are generally the same in a lot of respects, in that, you know, just like a lot of the things that, you know, as a mother, you know, you probably learned from your mother. You know, it's just like young people want to be. They want to be seen. They want to be valued. They want to be. They want to be coached, you know, and not screamed at, but really help develop their potential and help them reach their goals. And that's. That's what great players want. And it didn't matter if you were a great player in 1980 or 1990 or 2000 or 2020. You know, great players want to be coached. They want to be part of a great team. They buy into the big picture, and they want to be valued and seen. And I think that what happens now a little bit is young people grow up in a world of iPhones and iPad and NIL. But basketball is a team sport, and if you want to be really successful, you've got to give up. You've got to make sacrifices for the team. And I always have to make decisions that are best for our team, which might and sometimes not be what an individual wants. I think the relationship has to be so strong that, you know, they go along with it.
- [52:30]
Chantelle Jennings
You've also evolved in some ways, though. So I'm headed to Spokane for the regionals this year. And last time I was there, you guys were cutting down some nets and you broke out the electric slide at mid court, I remember. Which was maybe something you wouldn't have done in the 80s, perhaps. I don't know.
- [52:45]
Ben Pickman
I learned that from the 95 team. 95, 96. When we were with the Olympic team, wherever we went, everyone danced. And I'm not a very good dancer, but that was one dance I learned. And my teacher, I had a tutor on the Olympic team was Carla McGee, who is a fabulous dancer. But everywhere we went, all, you know, Russia, China, they always, you know, if we were in Texas, you're doing the line dancing. And so actually, I think just doing that dance with our team, just relaxed people. But it was something that I think surprised our 2022 team, but it was fun.
- [53:25]
Chantelle Jennings
All right, well, Tara, I'm going to let you go, but I want to ask you, I can't let you go without asking, have you filled out a Bracket?
- [53:31]
Ben Pickman
No, I have not filled out a bracket.
- [53:33]
Chantelle Jennings
Are you going to.
- [53:34]
Ben Pickman
I'm not going to fill out a bracket.
- [53:36]
Chantelle Jennings
Okay.
- [53:36]
Ben Pickman
I only filled out one bracket. And that was in your whole life, 2021? Yeah.
- [53:41]
Chantelle Jennings
Okay.
- [53:42]
Ben Pickman
I've only filled out one bracket. And I filled it out, I think, because, you know, it was during the pandemic and it was just. It was just. You felt so isolated that I. I took the bracket and I filled it out, and it just was kind of entertaining to me, you know, a way to keep track of what was going on because I was kind of more isolated. We were down in San Antonio, and I wanted to keep track of who I was going to see, the coaches I was going to see, you know, in the. In the meal room and everything and, you know, walking down the hall and then that I framed that bracket because that was a bracket that we won in 2021. But I'm really excited that so many of our Pac 12 schools are doing so well. So if you're going to go to Spokane, you're going to see USC and UCLA. Are there. Are there any other PAC12 schools there?
- [54:29]
Chantelle Jennings
I don't think so. I think Oregon State got sent to Birmingham. If I recall, Oregon's in Birmingham, Utah's in Birmingham.
- [54:38]
Ben Pickman
What about Washington? Maybe they went to Spokane.
- [54:40]
Chantelle Jennings
Washington got the plan in Birmingham against Columbia.
- [54:44]
Ben Pickman
Wow, that's too bad this year for Glenn. Spokane.
- [54:46]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah.
- [54:47]
Ben Pickman
Well, I mean, I'm so proud of our Pac 12 teams and how well they're doing and obviously the enthusiasm for women's basketball. You know, last year it was just awesome with the NCAA tournament out, drawing the men's tournament for the first time ever. And you know, Chantal, I did, did teach a class this quarter. And you know who came on the class? I had Lisa Bluder on as a guest and Caitlin Clark made it, so surprise appearance. So it was really fun.
- [55:11]
Chantelle Jennings
What were they speaking on in that class or what was the lesson plan?
- [55:15]
Ben Pickman
That class was the Caitlin Clark effect and how she really impacted the game of women's basketball and the game of basketball in general. It was really fun. Class went really well and she. It was a great surprise.
- [55:27]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Awesome. Well, Tara, thanks so much for your time today and we'll see how Wednesday shakes out for UC San Diego and Heidi.
- [55:34]
Ben Pickman
All right. Go Tritons. All right. Thank you, Chantel.
- [55:42]
Zena Kada
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- [57:30]
Sabrina Merchant
I love these middle seeded games today. Like the Richmond, Georgia Tech game is really fun and not just because it's in Los Angeles and I'm very excited to go to that one. But you know, Indiana, Utah, another 89 game I really like just all four of these teams are hyper efficient offensive teams that just move the ball really well, get a lot of assists, shoot the three well. So those two eight nine games I think are going to be super competitive, I mean ultimately inconsequential. If you hear back my earlier take about the one seeds advancing far. But I am really interested to see what Indiana, Utah and Richmond and Georgia Tech look like.
- [58:00]
Zena Kada
Yeah, I think the 89 seeds in general in all the tournaments like always feel the most competitive because they're the best evenly matched. But interestingly enough like usually for different reasons in both cases like with Richmond and Georgia Tech like I had to go and do some legitimate research on like who could edge out one team over the other. Like is it going to be the free throws usually you know, Chantelle, Ben, they put me on game. Is it guard play? Is it free throws? I'm like trying to figure it out, but all four of those teams that you just mentioned, like, very, very closely matched. So, yes, very excited to see what those games play out like. Chantelle, I'm going to turn it to you. Any games you're looking out for or players.
- [58:37]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, I'm surprised we haven't gotten to this league yet that your league, the Ivy League, since we've already. I was going to your state. You're welcome.
- [58:44]
Ben Pickman
Thank you.
- [58:44]
Chantelle Jennings
You know, I have my eyes on Michigan State, Harvard. I think this is an interesting game for many reasons. Harmony Turner has been fantastic for Harvard, especially of late in the Ivy League tournament. But I think this is also, for fans of the Big Ten, a good game to watch. Kerry Moore, the coach at Harvard, is a name that I've heard brought up for the Wisconsin job. So if you kind of want to get a sense for her, her game plan, her system, you know, here's a potential future Big Ten coaching matchup. She has former Big Ten assistant experience at Michigan, so I think that's an interesting game. Similarly, Kansas State, Fairfield, Carly Thibautonis is a coach who, you know is going to be in the conversation for head coaching jobs over the next few years until she sort of jumps to the power conference level. She obviously has this lineage of coaching in her blood. Her father, her brother are both WNBA coaches associated with Mystics and Minnesota now. But she's someone who I think we're going to see on the power conference level sooner rather than later. And so I think, you know, if you're looking for games and you're looking for, you know, storylines outside of just who wins and who loses, I think those are two games that you definitely want to watch.
- [59:46]
Zena Kada
There you go. I'm happy you brought up Michigan, Harvard, because that absolutely was going to be my game to watch, but also player to watch within that conversation. Harmony Turner, she's in that synonymous conversation of just like ridiculous scores, like a Tania Latson, like a Michaela Blakes, like it's just offense coming out of her, but also really great decision making and playmaking. Overall, I'm going to add California, Mississippi State. That's going to be on Saturday. I'm really excited for that team. And of course, I'm in the Bay Area, so I've been watching the Bears and their international squad. They are like deep in international players, just, you know, killing it from a three point line. And also just in general just moving their way up, especially leaving the PAC 12 going into the ACC. I think they had a really good showing this year. And Mississippi State, I always appreciate their defense, I always appreciate their tenacity with which they play. And so this is going to be a lot, a lot of fun. But big teams, these are long teams, especially between California, Mississippi State. So I'm excited for that game. So that's where I've got my eye on for this weekend. Appreciate you guys giving your insight there. Chantelle, Sabrina, let us know. Where are you guys looking? Who should we be looking at? Who should we be checking out? Are we shading your team? Have we not respected some of your players enough? Let us know. We always want to make sure that we give as much love as possible and also that we properly analyze this tournament because we want to make sure your we are your number one spot for keeping up with everything. So that's all we've got for you today. Thank you so much for joining us. One final reminder, there is still time until the 21st to fill out your bracket with us for our bracket challenge. It is on the Yahoo. Fantasy Sports Hub. Our group is no offseason bracket Challenge. I've already got my bracket up. Zena's Bracket Baddies. Yes. Okay, you can't take my title. Don't take my title. Anyways, remember ID number this is important. 2519 2519. That is the group number. Don't put your bracket somewhere else and then people steal your ideas. No. Bring it to the no off season Bracket Challenge. Check out the show notes below for more information. And while you're there, also make sure to check out our partner Yahoo Sports Hub sports yahoo.com backslash women's dashboards. Got to make sure it's right. On behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening. We will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Perot. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Brenna Haupt is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of Women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is our Director of Audio Operations. 21 year old flaw J. Johnson has built an impressive career making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flauje's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like flaujay can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more.