← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
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- [00:00]
Sponsor Voice
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- [01:39]
Zena Kaita
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- [03:41]
Ben Pickman
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- [05:14]
E
For the Athletic I'm Zena Kaita and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Zena K. Here with Ben Pickman. We've got quite a few things to Talk about today. So let's dive right in today. I want to talk a little bit about what we saw last week. Some major elevated play coming out of women's college basketball. Just top scoring phenomenons out of Caitlin Clark. Juju Watkins. We can add Deja Fair from Syracuse in there as well. And then we'll talk WNBA free agency. There's been a lot of updates since February 1st. The official contract signing date window opened up for the wnba. We'll talk some some of the big impactful moves out of Phoenix, talk a little bit about what happened in brewing in Seattle and we'll see if there's anything else. We want to chat on that. And then Ben here found out a little bit more about tcu and so we're definitely going to have to go talk to him about what is happening over with the Horned Frogs. And lastly he also went to USA Camp and I know you guys have been seeing a little bit of the clips there and there's a little bit of confusion about like who's going to Antwerp, who's going to be on the list. Does this mean anything for Paris? We'll ask Ben. Don't you worry, he's got our backs. All right, let's get it started with Caitlin Clark. There's been a lot of confusion even with me about all the records and where she's at in terms of this scoring list. So you know what Ben, help me out here. Where is Clark when it comes to the scoring record and what has she accomplished particularly in the last week?
- [07:02]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, so we could see a lot more history this week as Caitlin Clark is very much within striking distance of becoming the NCAA's all time leading scorer in women's college basketball. She is 65 points away from passing. Kelsey Plum, who currently holds the number one spot in the NCAA 66 points will give Caitlin Clark the record in her four year career. And she could do that, you know, really as soon as Super Bowl Sunday would be another momentous occasion on the schedule. Iowa women's basketball they play later this week. On Thursday they host Penn State and then she plays and Iowa plays Nebraska on Sunday. And now Caitlin Clark against Nebraska. For her career she averages nearly 35 points per game against the Cornhuskers. They are one of they are the Big Ten opponent she fares the best against historically. And so you know, we'll see how the Penn State game goes. But Super Bowl Sunday could be momentous for another reason for fans of the.
- [07:58]
E
Hawkeyes and women's college basketball did really well last year in terms of viewership for Super Bowl Sunday. So I imagine she'll have quite the audience to watch. Hopefully her make some history then on the other side of the country over here on the West Coast. Pat 12, baby. They have been putting on shows all weekend. I got to go to one of them being the cal game against USC, where JuJu Watkins started the game two points in the first quarter, and by the end of the game, dropped 29. That was just 29 of her total 80 points of the weekend. And, yes, I'm burying the lead here because she had 51 in the game before. And I'm just like, you know, guys, I'm not gonna lie to you. I was a little upset that I had to watch the warriors play Memphis while she was just making history over here. It's been. Clearly, there's something brewing. When you're in the maroon and gold for usc, you're just putting up numbers. You're putting up points. Sharon Miller, Lissa Leslie, Tina Thompson, like juju Watkins is joining the ranks. She is one of the most prolific scorers, if not the most prolific scorer right now in NCAA women's college basketball. And she plays so efficiently. All of her moves, every single thing that she does, every dribble, every sweep through, every single attack is just efficient. Now, she's not perfect, but y'all, on Friday, she damn near was at one point, 51 points she had scored. When you think about where she was at 51, 58, they ended up with 67 as a team. She had 51 of them. I'm gonna say that one more time. 51 of them. It was surreal. Ben, I want to ask you and juju and Caitlin, the way they're putting the ball in the basket, Unreal. And then you had Deja Fair Syracuse against Boston College. I think that was a little bit of a more, you know, quieter game. The other night, she had 38 points against Syracuse. Players are just scoring at will. And I'm wondering, like, what do you think is contributing to this, like, elevated level of play? Actually? Is it elevated, or is it that we're just seeing it more? It's now more visible.
- [10:05]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I think the three cases of Fair Clark and Watkins, you know, there are similarities and there are differences. I think the thing first that, you know, sticks out to me, I think the commonality between the two, the trio is repetitions and just the work that it takes. Like, there is nothing easy and nothing given. I talked to Caitlin Clark's trainer last week again for an upcoming story on the site, and, you know, he harps on it. And assistant coaches at Iowa also, just the repetition she puts in during summers, during breaks, you know, they have a 300 shot routine that they start their private workouts with where she's taking 100 free throws, 100 mid range jumpers, 100 threes, and she's trying to make like 240 total shots of that group. And then they do another 200 shots, you know, usually added on. And they do all this in like a little over an hour. Right. So that's just an example of what, like a Clark.
- [10:53]
E
I wish you could see my face. That is exhausting. How I was going to say her little legs, I don't know. Like that is exhausting. And your arms, I mean, it makes sense. It makes sense why it's so automatic. Sorry to cut you off because that's unreal.
- [11:09]
Ben Pickman
Well, and so like, you know, I'm sure juju and Fair also have, you know, extreme regimens and have just put in so much time. I mean, you can see Friday night, you know, juju against Stanford. The thing that stuck out to me both in real time and watching it back was just the variety in how she scored. Like it was in transition. It was, you know, pull ups off a high ball screen at the free throw line. It was catch and shoot threes. It was, you know, she just scored like every single which way. It was not just one way or the other. 17 and 19 from the free throw line. Like you watched her and it was a total, it was a total clinic on offense and it was efficient and it was every single place. And she just got to her spot time and time, time again. And so like, obviously that is natural gift, but it is also a lot, a lot of work. And in the case of her, you know, the thing that also jumps out is, you know, the work that, you know, juju is obviously a special freshman. Hannah Hidalgo from Notre Dame, also special freshman. My Lejeval Wiley, the same deal. We could keep going. There's so many, you know, we are in an era in which, you know, a lot of these players have more access potentially to private trainers or sales coaches or maybe the AAU system is contributing to, you know, college readiness. You know, we talked to Lynn Dunn on the podcast. I think it was in early December around the draft lottery. And it's just stuck out in my mind as I've watched this college season is Lin saying, like, have you ever seen this many freshmen this strong this early? And that is something that just so, it just rings so true. We saw it Then in November and December, and we're certainly seeing it in February and we're going to see it in March. That's a spoiler alert because, you know, that's not to say USC is going to go to the Final Four. Who knows on that front? But there's no reason to suggest that juju Watkins can't perform in much the same way she did on Friday night in a Pac12 tournament game or in an NCAA tournament game down the road.
- [13:08]
E
She was just so calm. I think that that was the thing that, like, resonated with me so much. I had the opportunity to just sit and watch very closely the game. I was practically on the court and she was chewing gum the whole game. And she was chewing gum at Sanford and she chews gum every game and she's just like chilling. It feels like. It looks like it was so impressive to just watch how calm and poised and equanimous her game is. She just is not phased, even though she started the game rough. You know, I want to say shout out to Kal because they did a great job of containing her in the first half, specifically, and also utilizing their size against her. I mean, Mia Suarez was just having her way sometimes going to the basket against her, using her size. And again, other players that you're seeing that are young, that are still, that are doing really well. And that's another thing that's. It's both in America and internationally, these younger players just being dominant and it's fun and it tells you the game is in great hands. And you make a great point of what Lynn said, these players just being so prepared for the college game. But here's the thing. We've seen this conversation recently. You could be prepared going from high school to college, but going from college to the W, a whole nother conversation. Haley Jones was on a panel yesterday at Cal after their game and she talks about it was a great example. She said, you know, you're going from high school where you're a 3,000 point scorer. That's you, Haley. That was not me, but go ahead. So she's like, you're a 3,000 point scorer and every. And you know, you have your, you can score however you'd like, you're doing your thing, whatever. Then you go to college and your whole team were 3,000 point scorers and they were scored however they like and they were having a great time out there and it was fun, et cetera. And then she said, then you go to the W. And not only was everyone a 3,000 point score. They were all Americans as well in college. They were Olympians in the U18, the U19, the whatever. They were FIBA players, they were players, other conferences, et cetera. And then they've been doing this for five years. They've been doing this for 10 years. They've been playing at this higher level. And one thing that she said that stuck out to me, she said, maybe I'm a little bit faster because I'm younger, but I'm not as efficient. I might get to my spot faster, but that doesn't mean that I know what to do when I get there better than someone that's been in the league five years. And I want to bring this up because, you know, last week there was a lot, a lot of commentary around Cheryl Swoopes comments on Caitlin Clark particularly, but also Andrew Reese and translating their skills to the wnba. And I'll say this first, before I even go into questioning about this, I don't like this. I don't want it. I don't want to see it. I don't want to hear it. I don't like it. I don't think that any of these players need speculation on their game. And this is not in just this league. It's on the men's side. Regardless. I hate all of this speculation of, oh, they're not going to do well. And the main reason I don't like it is because what's the only opposite conversation to that argument? To that, well, no, they're going to be doing, they're going to do great. And then if they don't meet those standards, that's pressure on them, that's disappointment on them. That's, it's just like, can we just let these women, these young women go and perform? Because we've seen stars be stars and we've seen people succumb to the pressure. And I don't like this conversation. I just feel like, let's just enjoy what we're at and see what happens. But let's not create this debate that this player's not even a part of. They're just trying to play the game. So, boom, I got my little I'm off my soapbox. Back to you, Ben. Now talking about Clark transitioning to the W. I know you've spoken to some people about what their thoughts are about it. Like, what's the, what's the tea around the league?
- [17:06]
Ben Pickman
I mean, one, I don't think they're is much tea. Like, I think, you know, you can listen to our conversation last week with Becky Hammond, we asked her, you know, how she thinks Clark will impact the W. And Becky was effusive in her praise of Caitlin Clark. She was like, I only hope she returns to college because that's one less year that I have to coach against her. That's. That was literally what she said. You know, she literally said that she was just open about, like, yes, she's going to. She will continue to bring more eyeballs to the sport. And so there is a whole business and marketing conversation, and I'm sure we're going to have that in more depth down the line. But, like, she can shoot the lights out of the gym, you know, is she necessarily right now, you know, she's, I think, made. I'm looking at it. She's made 122 three pointers this year at Iowa. The record in the WNBA for a single season. Sabrina Unescu just set it at 128. Do I think Caitlin Clark is immediately going to come in and, like, set every record? No, but shooting translates. That's what Becky was super clear about. That's what Cheryl Reeve talked about. You know, she talked about in the context of Caitlin Clark this weekend at Team USA's camp. She talked about it in the context of Sabrina Unescu shooting against Stephen Curry, that, like, great shooters are great shooters. It doesn't matter, you know, what your background is, your makeup is anything. Like, if you can shoot, you can shoot. So, you know. Will Clark take 22 shots per game if she enters the WNBA this season? I don't know. Probably not. But, like, she could probably still take a lot and be super efficient. She's an unbelievable passer. We're gonna see her impact, you know, the game as a supreme passer and how she pairs with Aaliyah Boston and Alyssa Smith. Like, she's gonna have great pick and roll chemistry with them if she does declare. So, you know, is she gonna score 40 points per game right away? Probably not, but, like, shoot or shoot, shoot or shoot. And, like, we shouldn't try and discredit her or, you know, tear her down. And players at Team usa, we're all talking about, like, they're excited to see her play. Will some people circle her on the schedule and say, like, we want to shut her down. I'm sure there's some competitive players who will take that approach, as they should. This is competitive sports. But I don't understand the pushback, I guess I don't know how you feel.
- [19:12]
E
You make a great point in that you don't need to discredit her game in trying to speculate what she's going to do on the next level. And you're absolutely right. There's a difference between someone that has made their game and in the paint, maybe right against size, against certain skill inside the paint, it's a little bit different because you're going to go up against bigger, stronger, skilled players on the next level. You think about an Alyssa Peely and her footwork. Yeah, there's a lot of bigs in the league that are taller, with great footwork, that are just as efficient outside, inside, just like an appealee. She's going to have some people that can match up against her. Angel Reese is going to have some people that can match up against her. If you're out at the logo, if you're shooting out at the logo, it's you against the logo. Right? It's you against that distance from the basket. And sure, you're going to have some people that are going to pick you up full court. That's what Haley Jones is talking about as well as like, oh, this is different. People picking me up full court and not getting tired. Cool, cool, cool. But I think that that's a great point. Like, you don't need to discredit her. She is a shooter, and that is going to do well at all levels. There's not going to be something that automatically changes her ability to stroke the ball. Maybe the number of shots she gets will change. Maybe how easily she gets the ball in her hands to be able to shoot will change. But again, once she has it in her hand and she has vision of the basket, I don't think that that's going to change. That regiment that you just mentioned at the top of this, that insane regiment, it's not going to go away. That discipline and shooting discipline is not going to go away. So ultimately, I think she's going to do well at the next level. I also think that we can just like the speculation business is unnecessary. That being said, y'all better stop talking about Sheryl Swoopes like she ain't Sheryl Swoopes. Let's just be respectful to our legends. She did say some things on that podcast were incorrect. She stated she was wrong, particularly with the Kelsey Plum, Caitlin Clark time that, you know, Caitlyn has taken to get to her points and the years that it's taken. She admitted she was wrong. But let's not get disrespectful out here. All right, folks? That's all I'll say on that.
- [21:19]
Ben Pickman
And I would just add as we put a bow on it. Like, I talked to Aaliyah Boston over the weekend. She was at Team USA's camp. I mean, this is someone, you know, Caitlin Clark, presumably, if she enters the WNBA draft, she will go number one and she will play with Aaliyah Boston, who is already, as she enters her second season, very much in contention for a spot on the Olympic team. And I asked her, you know, Aaliyah Boston of NBC Sports, we should add, as she's putting her basketball analyst cap on. Like, how do you think Caitlin will impact the league when she declares? And Aaliyah was effusive in her praise and just talked about how Caitlin has a great IQ for the game. That was the thing. She kind of talked about her knowledge for the game that she knows, you know, where the ball is supposed to go when, and highlighted her passing in particular. Like, they can set up to be a pair for years to come that trust each other, that makes each other better. You can't double both at all times. You would then leave three players open on the court. So, you know, it's just going to be exciting to see. And that is kind of all I have to say then on the topic of Caitlin Clark, all that is going.
- [22:19]
E
On, you know, drumming up drama that even the players do not have. Okay, folks, also, last, last, last, last thing on this. I am so excited again this year we're going to see the South Carolina fans and the Iowa fans have to love each other. Megan Gustafsson is now in Vegas with Asia Wilson. And so I'm not only excited to see that. See, you know, ASUS fans having become South Carolina and Iowa fans together and then also Leah Boston and Caitlin Clark eventually, if that happens. Just love those two having to come together in a moment of unity to support their teams. Anywho, let's keep it moving because just mention a little bit about Megan Gustafson, just signed to the Las Vegas Aces. She's one of the free agency moves that happened. I feel like Pancake has been more of the hot Topic, the adorable corgi that Megan has moving also to Vegas. I absolutely love that they gave Pancake a goodbye tweet as well, but she's been with the Phoenix Mercury and now going up to the Vegas Aces, and I'm excited for that move. I feel like, you know, obviously getting some size out there, getting some shooters out there. It'll be fun to see how she fits into that mix. But she's not the main person I want to talk about because I want to Talk about the team she just left because they've been making some big time moves. Phoenix Mercury have made some big signings. Ben, walk us through them.
- [23:47]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, Phoenix has been really active all off season long, really since Matt Ishbia took over as the team's owner and governor. I believe it was last year around this time actually that he started taking over the franchise. Both the Mercury and the sun, they brought in a new GM from the Golden State Warriors, Nick Uren, and he has been very busy over the last months and weeks, especially days, especially rather as they've also hired a new coach, Nate Tibbetts who used to work at the Orlando Magic. In terms of free agency, they made perhaps the biggest splash on day one of free agency when they brought in Natasha Cloud from the Washington Mystics, an all league defensive player who's just been, you know, played her whole career with Washington, but sets up really nicely against Diana Taurasi and they can complement each other really well. And we saw in the postseason that Cloud is also a really, really good scorer when she wants to be. Also very good on this podcast, might I add.
- [24:39]
E
Yes.
- [24:39]
Ben Pickman
If anyone wants to go listen to our preview of the WNBA Finals, we had her on and she was excellent in her analysis. She reunites in Phoenix with her former teammate Christie Toliver, who is one of the assistants on Nate Tibbetts coaching staff. And so, you know, that creates some intrigue but also some familiarity between the two of them. They continue to have a busy free agency period. Their other kind of big standout move was bringing in Beck Allen via trade. One of the league's best shooters, someone 3 and D but can do a little bit more than that. And they've really created a rotation in which they can now play a number of different styles. Right. You can play big. You have, you know, Brittney Griner, obviously you have Brian Turner who can play, you know, again, a former all league defensive player as well, Diana Taurasi. You bring in, you know, Cloud, as I mentioned, you bring in Beck Allen. You have Sophie Cunningham. This is a team that, you know, has some depth. A lot of it, you know, we will wait and see. A lot of it will be dependent. A lot of their success will be dependent on how Griner and Taurosi perform. Can they stay healthy and how do they perform? I think that really has a huge impact on their ceiling in the end. But you know, Phoenix has certainly been active. They made some splashy moves. Elena Deladon is another player. She's been cored by the Washington Mystics. But she could also be on the move via a trade potentially. And so Phoenix would be another intriguing possibility for her if they can create a deal and get a deal done.
- [26:00]
E
Yeah, I feel like Phoenix made some win now moves, especially when you look at the way that Natasha Cloud and Rebecca Allen finished the year in the finals. Like they made splashes, particularly in ways that you didn't. I mean you could have expected this out of Rebecca Allen, but particularly the scoring ability. I think that was the thing that was a little bit surprising for everyone on Natasha Cloud's like, I mean she had 30 plus points games and we were like okay, Natasha can do it two ways. She's a two way player too. And what I love about it too is after Natasha Cloud was, you know, left off the list on the all WNBA defensive team, she said this is going to be her revenge year. So I'm particularly excited to see what happens, you know, when she teams up with this squad. And yes again, Rebecca Allen, for me blocking, she was an incredible defensive asset for the Connecticut sun last season, particularly during the finals and then also scoring, slashing. It's going to be a wonderful inside outside game for the Phoenix Mercury next season and they got few years left for Diana Tferasi and so I think that this was really great in terms of like making a win now move for them now. Phoenix Mercury making some very key clear decisions. Another team that has made a very key clear decision and it's very exciting. Notre Dame fans, I know you guys are just so happy. You probably were praying for this. Your prayers have been answered. Skyler Diggins Smith, Jewel Lloyd back together again in Seattle. Ben, tell us a little bit more about that move.
- [27:31]
Ben Pickman
A huge move as well. Skyler Duggins Smith, who is a six time all star and did not play last season, but she enters her 10th year in the league and she will be joining the Seattle Storm. That was announced last week. You know, although she didn't play last season on maternity leave, it's hard to potentially overstate just what a big move this could be. She hasn't missed an all star game since her second season. If you take out the years in which she's either sat out or the game hasn't occurred and she's made an all WNBA team in six of her nine years. An elite playmaker can create off the dribble, can shoot it and she'll pair with Drew Lloyd who led the league in scoring last season. I mean it's a really, really exciting backcourt that has formed Seattle last year 1129, it was its worst record since 2015. And this is a team that quickly is rebuilding and rebuilding fast following the retirement of Sue Bird and Brianna Stewart. And it also appears, you know, last week they had traded Key and Nurse away as well as the number four pick in the upcoming WNBA draft for a 2026 pick. And so that cleared some cap space, giving Seattle the opportunity to sign two max level players. And it does appear, you know, we're recording this on Monday afternoon. There are some reports that Neko Gurumike, the 2016 WNBA MVP, is nearing a deal with the Seattle Storm. And so, you know, if that is finalized and they can make that official, suddenly Seattle has completely rebuilt its roster in an offseason and, you know, really becomes a formidable contender. I think it's important, and maybe it's important on this show, but also for fans and viewers to step back as they think about free agency. And we talked about it last week with Becky Hammond. What I'm about to say is the goal is to win a championship. Like all these moves are to assemble a team that can win a title. And sometimes that means you put yourself in a position to do it right now. And sometimes like what the LA Sparks are doing, they're hoping to build for the long term and become title contenders down the road. And so the Las Vegas Aces are still the standard, like they are still the team to beat. So we can say they're winners and losers of free agency, but let's not forget about a team whose core is Asia Wilson, Kelsey Plum, Chelsea Gray and Jackie Young and maybe Candace Parker coming back too. So let's not forget about the Las Vegas Aces. As we have all these conversations. Do I think Seattle significantly improved its title odds? Of course. Absolutely. And they might even be in the conversation with, you know, a starting five right now that also can really match or you know, go up against New York and Las Vegas, but we haven't seen it yet. They're certainly a winner of free agency, but that doesn't mean that like, you know, they or the Phoenix Mercury or the Atlanta Dream or some of these other teams that have been super active are going to win a title in year one.
- [30:14]
E
Because not only do the Aces have that core four off of talent, are they amazing, but they have that familiarity. And so all these teams are going to have to battle up against a team that basically feels like an AAU team. Like they've known each other for so long, they've found success together for a very long time. And you make a great Point of, you know, the aces are the standard. I love the way you put that. And I know there was a ESPN WNBA free agency show which I very much appreciated watching, you know, shout out to them, putting that together. Andrea Carter was doing some amazing analysis on the show, but she also said that of teams are building to beat the aces, that's what you have to do. And so not only are you having to put together what makes sense on the court from a X's and O's perspective, you also have to see personalities fit. Do they play off of each other? Well, all these things and that was one of the things that the New York Liberty were a little bit shaky in the beginning. People weren't sure what all these superstars coming together would actually look like. And that first game, it was a little worrisome. You weren't sure if they were going to able to pull it back together. And at the end of the day, I think talent was the thing that pulled them out of that and got them to the end of the WNBA season. But all of these teams now are trying to make some moves. Another team, Atlanta, been interested to see some of the moves that they made. I know they signed Ariel Powers, Tina Charles, you know, they're trying to get Ryan Howard some help. What are your thoughts on what Atlanta's been doing too?
- [31:44]
Ben Pickman
And also as important a sign in trade with Jordan Canada from the Los Angeles team.
- [31:48]
E
That's right. Yeah.
- [31:49]
Ben Pickman
This is a team again, like Atlanta has, has had a number of draft picks, They've had a ton of young talent. And you hit the nail on the head. Like they are continuing to try and take steps forward and put themselves in, you know, up the upper echelon of the wnba, not just this season, but they're almost trying to toe the line of, you know, doing it this year. Like a move to bring in Tina Charles, her return to the wnba. Like she did not play in the league last year, but this is a former league mvp. Like that's a move that you do in the short term. Right. Whereas Ryan Howard, who is very much, you know, on the early stages of her career, she is blossoming as now she enters year three. So different timelines and I think they're trying to figure out how do we become relevant and put ourselves in playoff contention and title contention right now in the short term while also still maintaining our long term flexibility and our long term prospects. We saw them move off of Arie McDonald who was a 2021 draftee, but they kept Haley Jones as so, you know, that's kind of how they're. They're starting to toe those the line and make some of those choices.
- [32:52]
E
Oh, yeah. I'm, I'm excited to see Tina Charles back in the league. There's quite a few players. Tina Charles, Dede Richard's got a training camp contract. There's a few players that are coming back that and obviously Skyler, Diggins, Smith that we haven't seen. And now with the competition in the league, I just got excited thinking about how competitive, how tenacious. I think some of these teams are going to be trying to topple the aces from the top of the league. Aces. They didn't have an easy season last year. And like Becky said on the. The podcast last week, like, they weren't even whole last year. So they're going to come back, but they have a target on their back and it's going to be fun. I'm excited. Okay. All right. We got to move on.
- [33:31]
Ben Pickman
Well, I was going to say, well, you, you mentioned tenacity and maybe I'll move us forward here. Like, I went to the Team USA camp this past weekend, and it was one of the things that just jumped out to me. You know, this is an early February Olympic camp. This is Team USA's first camp of 2024, and it's the first camp of the new year. As they then in an Olympic year, as they prepare for the Paris games this summer, 18 players, a mix of some veterans like Diana Taurasi who have been there before, and some players who have not made an Olympics. Aaliyah, Boston, Orion, Howard, players of that kind of generation. And the thing that first jumped out to me is like you walk into the gym and, you know, we were the portion open to the media was like the last 30 or so minutes to practice each of the three days. And we saw scrimmaging and like them playing against practice players, but it was like, boom, like right in your face. The speed, the, you know, just the skill level, the competitiveness, the. The energy in the gym was just palpable for three days. And it was something that Cheryl Reeve talked about. I talked to Kurt Miller about it as well, who's one of the assistants on the staff show. Reeve is the head coach of the team. Like, it just jumped out of the gym right away, like, hit you. And for someone who, you know, has been watching college games or a long time since watching like the WNBA finals or is just thinking about WNBA training camp because they did it in the New York Liberty's practice facility. And so I was Thinking about, like, okay, in April, the next time I'm back here watching a WNBA practice, it will be a training camp and we'll be seeing like a walkthrough and an install and players finding their footing and like chemistry coming together. And so to watch even just parts of this camp just like hit you in the face because it was like so fast and so engaged and so competitive that it just jumped out to anyone who was there. And I think anyone watching came away with that impression first and foremost.
- [35:26]
E
Oh, I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. Being able to see that level of talent in one room, in one place. Unreal. I mean, there's a reason why this team has been the team around the world, right? Dominance at all of these international competitions. It's the best of the best. And the standard is they keep each other accountable just by being great, right? Like, they all want to be the greatest. They all approach the game with the level of respect that it deserves. And I feel like there's a mutual respect amongst each other. Did you feel that within the room of just like, I wonder if they're in awe of each other, you know, did you see that at all?
- [36:03]
Ben Pickman
I mean, there's definitely like a true like congeniality or like a togetherness, like players put their own, you know, biases or preconceived notions aside, and you do definitely see them come together. And I think, you know, you also see like during the camp, there were a ton of WNB decision makers, like in the same room, right? GMs from almost every team, head coaches or assistants from almost every team, like watching. So it was like a crowded, crowded. And it's a small practice facility or small gym, relatively speaking. So everyone's kind of in a crammed in space. And so you see like everyone is, you know, kind of co mingling and doing it for the same purpose of like watching Team usa. But like, everyone is kind of impressed and getting a sense for how players play off each other, how players interact with each other. But you don't see like Spats or anything. Like they're all getting along, they're all working towards something. You see like different players, games meshing and it is just kind of cool to see like these high basketball IQ players kind of come together and play off each other in these combos that you just, you don't often see or you don't see because, you know, they're dispersed throughout the WNBA versus on one highly selective, highly selective roster.
- [37:16]
E
I can only imagine the room being filled with Woos, like, you know, people making certain moves.
- [37:21]
Ben Pickman
You had GMs who are, you know, in talks with the same player, like, sitting next to each other.
- [37:27]
E
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:27]
Ben Pickman
You know, yeah, they're all looking down the line. You kind of want to be like, you know, it was a question that kind of came up casually in conversation. Is this a good time to hold this camp or a bad time? Because, like, you know, you're kind of eyeing people, like, as they step out of the room, are they going on a phone call to, like, you know, call. Call an agent to talk to a player who they're recruiting? Are they going to get water? Like, what are they doing when they leave the room? You know, I think there's. It's friendly from. From their perspective, but there is, like a kind of fun dance to it as well, to observe.
- [37:56]
E
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's. That's cool. The only time that we as fans really get to see this group of people together often is in All Star situations. Right. An All Star situation does not have, you know, there's not this doggedness to it. Right. There's not this tenacious aspect. They're having fun. It's loose, whatever. So to see them in the same room going at each other, but like, in a basketball sense, not spats or anything like that, but, like, just going and trying to get the best out of each other. Oh, I'm so jealous. I can't wait. I cannot wait to see these games and to see them, especially with this new generation starting to mesh into the older generations. All right, last topic here. We got. We've covered a lot. Last topic here. Last Friday, Ben Pickman put out an article on tcu. We talked about this in off the script, crazy, crazy, crazy circumstances up at tcu. And recently Arizona has found themselves in a similar situation with some injuries, having to hold open trials. But that's exactly what happened for tcu. Had a series of injuries to start the top of the year. January. They were ranked 23rd in the country. Going into the top of January, they were 14 and 0 going into the top of January. And then they play Baylor and everything started to fall apart. Then they realized, okay, we've got our star players in Sedona Prince and Jaden Owens out. They got hurt. Boom, they're done. Then some other players got hurt, and then some people had to handle some personal issues. And then before you know it, they've got like eight to six players. And some of them are. Are also hurt. They're also coming back from Injury. It was just a mess. It was just a mess. And so they were like, you know what? We can't play these two games that are coming up because it's not safe for our players. And I'm paraphrasing, folks, there's more detail, but Ben, Ben gives it in detail in his article. But realize they can't play their upcoming games and they cancel, forfeit them. Then they hold open tryouts and they find three walk ons and a volleyball player who can't be a walk on because she's already on scholarship at TCU on the volleyball team, but she joins the team as well. Four new players out of nowhere, and they go out and they play. After four days, they had open tryouts, two days. They went through all the procedures you needed to do, figure out how to be a student athlete, change your classes, all the above, get some gear, and they go out and play ucf and they win. They win that first game. Storybook things of movies. And they still have a season to play. You know, they had to play Texas Tech. They didn't win that game, but they play well. It's fine. They've had some games since then. There's apparently way more to the craziness I just listed, and I know that you wrote about it. So give us even more of the detail. Give us even more meat to what I just set up, because this TCU story is really one for the story. Like a storybook.
- [40:49]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, you mentioned a lot of the big picture notes, and I would say that their coach, Mark Campbell, kind of described it as them being like America's team. Like, they're the ultimate underdogs right now, who everyone is rooting for. And I think, you know, there is some truth from the outside. Some people may be even rooting for the walk ons and Sarah Sylvester, who is the aforementioned volleyball player, to get in just to see how they perform. But there's a lot of gems that, you know, kind of came up in reporting the story that I think were just super interesting. And I was really just curious about, like, the experience of going from a normal quote unquote student at a school to suddenly you find yourself on a Division 1 basketball team. And what is that? Like, some of the things that stuck out to me. One of the players I talked to, her name was Ella Hamlin. She's a freshman guard from nearby in Texas. Like, you know, she enjoyed going to a local country music establishment during her first semester. And she was like sitting in a sociology class when she learned that games were Canceled and that, you know, eventually that they were gonna have open tryouts and she was eager to give it a shot. And that night, you know, she went to the gym just to get some shots off, like to cram for a test, in essence, the way you would like study your periodic table. She went to just, you know, get loose, work on her dribbling and her jumper. She would go during the first semester and play pickup. But you know, the Wednesday night on the eve of the trial, she was like, let me go get some shots up to dust off any nerves or any and any, you know, parts of my game to make sure I'm prepared. The tryout itself around 40 students tried out over Thursday and Friday. Initially they were supposed to be two hour blocks. They were shrunk down to just one hour because Mark Campbell reflected and he was like, you know, they're just not in basketball shape that no one is training for this. What exactly?
- [42:32]
E
Our practice as a conditioned basketball player. And it was tough. I can imagine being a random student on campus and then trying to show up to practice for two hours. Okay, thank you, Mark Campbell, shout out to you for being smart.
- [42:43]
Ben Pickman
Exactly. So they were shrunk down to just one hour. I talked to Ruthie Hebert, who is a forward, a free agent forward, formerly the wnba in the Chicago sky, who is on Mark Campbell staff at tcu. And Ruthie went from like, you know, working on complicated post moves with Sedona Prince, who is a WNBA level talent, to you know, working on entry passes and you know, with some of these walk ons and helping them install not only like their revamped offense, but like work through a three man weave drill and the shooting drills they do in warm ups. And you know, I was joking with Ruthie, like did you get texts or calls from players in the W or friends being like, hey, you should put a jersey on. And she was like, yeah, like Nyara Sabali and Satu Sabali. Like they were saying like, Ruthie, do you have any eligibility left? And like some people were joking around her on campus us with, with that refrain for Ella Hamlin and some of these other walk on some other kind of nuggets that I'm sure resonate with you, Xena, considering your experience that you know, there were big things that they had to learn. Like Ella, she had to adjust her course schedule a little bit and learned all about like the tutoring resources. But then there were all these like little things that she's had to ask about and she's learned about including where do you get your protein shakes? And like, oh, I can just have one when I want one. How to use a laundry loop in the locker room. Like, literally, how do you hang your dirty clothes and denote that they are yours and where to put them so that you get them back the next day all clean. She learned about where to get snacks. She said she's gotten lost around the arena a few times. She was taking all these pictures and videos on the private plane, like the charter that they flew to Texas Tech. Like, all these little things like that that you don't really. I mean, you live this experience. I certainly didn't. And watch it from afar. Like, you don't realize when you are a normal student that forget the basketball and the conditioning for a second just to go from playing in the rec center on Tuesday nights with friends to, you know, protein shakes whenever you want it. Flying charter is a. It's a whirlwind. She described it as a dream. I mean, that was really the word she said. She said, I never thought this would be a possibility. I'm definitely living the dream.
- [44:51]
E
I'm just. My face, the facial expressions, I was just like, in awe, right? Just thinking immediately takes me back to freshman year of college. Because now, don't get me wrong, Yale ain't tcu. We ain't got protein shakes just laying around all the time, nor do we have a charter plan. But there are elements to your experience as a student athlete, especially on the D1 level, that you have to learn. And your. Your seniors, your. Your upperclassmen teach you as a freshman coming in, of how to schedule your classes. It's a thing. You have to schedule them around not only your games, but also your practices, your lifts. A lot of the team, like if you're on a D1 team, a lot of players will have similar majors and classes and take them at the same time just so that they can be able to go to a lift or be able to do some on court work at the same time. There's so many little elements and aspects to it. I completely. You just reminded me of the laundry loop. Yes, it is a thing. You have a particular hook that has your number on it or whatever it is. And every single day, you put your Spanx, you put your sports bra, you put your jerseys, you put everything that you may need on that hook so you can get it back for practice the next day. And if you have a limited amount of practice set, yeah, you definitely need the laundry loop, folks, you don't want to be smelling at practice this is crazy. I mean, I remember these things now, and I just think about these players came to school to go to school, and I can't imagine. I know they all played in high school, and that was some of the cool things that we were learning is like, some of these guys were, like, on championship caliber teams in high school, too. But they probably, in their mind, never imagined them going to a D1 program. Not only a D1 program, but one that's at one point was ranked one that's in a large power conference. I mean, these are exactly. You said stuff of dreams. And I'm really excited for them because it is a crazy story and you have no idea how it's going to pan out. And, you know, at the end of the day, they're walk on. So that's one of the things I wanted to ask you is, like, I want to enjoy this for them right now, but how does it look for the future? Like, do they have to. Would they get an opportunity to stay on the team in the. In the next year?
- [47:00]
Ben Pickman
They really wouldn't, like, look too far ahead, is the honest answer. Like, and I kind of asked them if they even planned or hoped to do that. And you know, Ella, who I talked to for the story, like, she said that she's just trying to contribute however she can this year and trying to stay. Like, how could she consider what next year might bring when she's just trying to stay afloat for tomorrow? Was kind of how I thought about it after hearing what she had to say. I mean, I talked to Sarah Sylvester, who is the volleyball player, Division 1 volleyball player, middle blocker for the Horned Frogs, who joined the basketball team. And I asked her, and she said she's planning to play on the basketball team only this winter. So she's not planning to play basketball next year. But she did say, you never know what could happen. Things change in a day, in a week. And I would just say that, you know, no one relates to that sentiment more than those at tcu that you never know what tomorrow or next week might bring. And so they definitely were not trying to look too far ahead and just kind of enjoy the moment. And all that is in front of them right now after a whirlwind start to January.
- [47:59]
E
Oh, I'm so excited that they're getting this experience. It's so. It's so dope. It's so unique. There's going to be apparently some student athletes at Arizona that are going to have a similar experience. So America's team may have a little bit of competition in a different conference, especially in the PAC 12. My God, that is a tough conference to have to have that sort of a shift. But thank you for getting us a little bit more information on that story because it's one to keep an eye on and it's one that you like you said you're rooting for them and you want to see where it goes. All right, guys, for set our screens, we just want to let you know who we at the Athletic will have our screen set to this week and encourage you all to have your screen set to them. They're key matchups, rematches, marquee type matchups. So this is our little list. We're going to start on the ACC side of things. Notre Dame, Louisville going up against each other on Thursday, North Carolina State, Virginia Tech going to get a rematch. Don't if you don't remember a month ago, Virginia Tech upset NC State. So this will be a cool rematch on Thursday. And keeping on the acc, particularly Louisville Lens, they've got a packed week. So of course they have that Notre Dame game on Thursday and then they're going to go up against NC State today actually at the day that we're recording this on Monday. And then they're rounding out the week with Syracuse who has crept up into the top 25, now sitting at 21. That'll be on Sunday. So they've got a big week and it's going to be very telling of their team wherever they land on all of these games. Oregon State, this is a team that has been climbing up the rankings as well. They've got a mountain swing between two major Pac 12 teams, Utah and Colorado. They'll be taking on Utah on Friday and then Colorado on Sunday. So they got a packed weekend ahead of them. And this will see, you know, how will they fare in the PAC 12 against these big time, this big time competition. They're above Utah now right now in the rankings. Of course, Colorado in that top 10 position at number six. So they'll get a little taste of both ends and you'll just see again what the parody looks like in the NCAA. And then marquee matchup. Marquee matchup. South Carolina takes on UConn. Remember, South Carolina does not have Camilo Cardoso. She is with the Brazilian national team team for the Olympic qualifiers. So we'll see what UConn can do inside, especially with their, their younger players trying to be able to make a name for themselves against South Carolina who is still undefeated. And then of course Caitlin Clark continues her path to being the all time scoring leader in NCAA basketball. And you know she's got a game against Penn State and also on Sunday, Super Bowl Sunday against Nebraska. Could make some history then. So that's who we got our our screen set to this week. Again, conference play continues to be crazy. NCAA play continues to be crazy. And of course we'll be checking out Twitter and the Internets to find out what's going on in free agency. But that is all for today. Appreciate you guys tuning in. Appreciate you all as we continue to just elevate and play with the format of this show and figure out what you guys want us to talk about and how you want us to talk about it, et cetera. We just appreciate all the support since we've started last year. It's been fun just growing in these conversations and being a part of these conversations, particularly in the audio format, of course, having been in the editorial format with the Athletic. But we hope you're enjoying this as much as we are creating it for you. Always open to feedback, always open. Just any sort of suggestions. But but that is all for today. Please subscribe wherever you get this podcast so you don't miss out. We've got another All Access coming up this week. You won't want to miss it. And for now, I'm Zena Keda encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game, y'all, because that's the only way that we're gonna grow it. All right. Until next time as we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there.
- [52:11]
Ben Pickman
Will be a few calls made by.
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Zena Kaita
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Ben Pickman
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Zena Kaita
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E
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Zena Kaita
Learn more at discover.com credit card this.
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E
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
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Ben Pickman
Or taping songs off the radio?
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E
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
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Ben Pickman
Hey, AOL chat rooms.
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E
Did we just age ourselves?
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Ben Pickman
Yep.
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Zena Kaita
We're Mike Fanoya and Charles McBee, two.
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Ben Pickman
Comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging question.
- [53:53]
E
Are we old? Relive the laughs, the cringes, and the nostalgia. Are we old?
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Ben Pickman
Podcast right here on acast. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
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Acast.com.