Predicting this Season in Women's College Hoops

Summary

No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show

Episode: Predicting this Season in Women's College Hoops

Date: November 4, 2025
Hosts: Zena Keita, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman

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Episode Overview

The hosts kick off the new women’s college basketball season with an in-depth predictions episode. They share picks for Freshman of the Year, Player of the Year, and National Champion, alongside dark horse and surprise teams to watch. The episode features lively discussion, stats-backed insights, and a fun new game connecting players across college and WNBA stints. The hosts’ banter captures their deep knowledge and love for the sport while making preseason prognostications accessible and engaging.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Warm-up & Personal Updates (02:12–09:48)

• NYC Marathon Shoutout:
  Ben recounts running the marathon, supported by listeners and friends, and praises the city’s energy (03:41).

  • "Special shout out to a listener of the podcast at the mile 24 mark…that was on. That was very surprising and was an added boost." – Ben Pickman (03:41)

• WNBA CBA Segment Recap:
  Sabrina shares her experience breaking down WNBA’s CBA negotiations on The Athletic Show (06:13).

  • "A lot less exciting than running the marathon, but probably a fun weekend nonetheless getting to see you..." – Sabrina Merchant (06:13)

• World Series Side-Talk:
  The hosts discuss Dodgers’ win and baseball’s stress levels for fans, before pivoting fully to basketball predictions.

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2. Freshman of the Year/Newcomer of the Year Discussion (11:49–19:02)

Consensus Pick: Jazzy Davidson (USC)

• Sabrina’s Case:

  • Emphasis on USA Basketball pedigree, especially U19 World Cup performance.
  • Key stats: ~15 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and 4 combined steals/blocks per U19 game.
  • Opportunity at USC due to major roster changes.
    "Jazzy's just… so confident, so smooth, and has just an excellent body of work already against the highest levels of competition." – Sabrina Merchant (12:04)

• Zena’s Take:

  • Praises Davidson’s two-way play and “free way” of playing.
  • Considers Aaliyah Chavez (Oklahoma) as close runner-up for similar reasons: “Both…have the stage set for them to take over.” (14:47)

• Ben’s Agreement:

  • Backs Davidson for her Team USA heroics and USC’s need for impact players.
  • Notes Oklahoma’s situation for Chavez: possibility of high success but distributed stats due to existing talent.

Honorable Mentions:

• Sienna Betts (UCLA, though out to start season), Addie Deal (Iowa), Allen McDowell (South Carolina).

(Timestamps: 12:04 Sabrina’s pick; 14:47 Zena’s agreement; 16:37 Ben on program contexts; 18:13 Sabrina on honorable mentions)

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3. Player of the Year Predictions (19:02–25:16)

• Sarah Strong (UConn) – Picked by Zena and Sabrina

  • Dominated as a freshman last year (19 pts, 12 rebounds in tournament run, 24 & 15 in title game).
  • Praised for defensive versatility and composure in high-pressure situations.
  • "She eats other teams for breakfast at this point." – Zena Keita (22:20)

• Hannah Hidalgo (Notre Dame) – Ben’s Pick

  • First-team All-American both years, led ACC in scoring, assists, and steals.
  • With Olivia Miles gone, Hidalgo will run the show.
  • "She is a pest beyond pests on the court…if she's able to elevate her game even more…there’s a strong case for her." – Ben Pickman (21:01)

• Lauren Betts (UCLA) seen as close, but Sabrina gives the edge to Strong for her versatility.

• Sabrina notes different awards (Wade, Naismith), frequent debate, and advises against “recency bias” (23:31).

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4. Surprise Teams (25:16–34:25)

Picks:

• Washington Huskies (Sabrina):

  • Underrated, versatile guard play, continuity, and solid additions.
  • "I really like the Washington Huskies…they have so much continuity coming back…a team that can make some noise in the Big Ten." (25:55)

• NC State (Zena):

  • Potential Final Four dark horse, roster adjustments might surprise.
  • Discussion on what counts as a “surprise”: top 10 team making Final Four is debated.

• Iowa State (Ben):

  • Crooks & Addie Brown: highest scoring returning duo; poised for bounce back after underperforming last year.
  • "It's a team that maybe you guys agree…they have underperformed a little…a bounce back year for Iowa State." (29:04)

• Duke & Louisville also discussed as possible “surprise” teams.

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5. National Championship Picks (34:25–43:51)

Favorites:

• UConn (Sabrina):

  • "This is UConn’s title to lose. I feel very chalky saying it, but I have not done well betting against UConn in the past." (36:39)
  • UCLA is seen as their likely opponent in the title game.

• UCLA (Ben):

  • Returns seven seniors, strong frontcourt/guard balance.
  • "If UCLA is ever going to win, it’s got to be this year…They need some shooting and [Gianna] Eatkins could be that perimeter shooting…" (37:22)

• South Carolina (Zena):

  • Bets on Dawn Staley’s program even with only 10 healthy players.
  • Points to leadership of Raven Johnson, impact transfer T’Nai Latson, and breakout potential for Joyce Edwards.
  • "I just feel like I can't count [Dawn Staley] out…Raven Johnson is the ultimate penultimate leader of this team." (41:20)

Notable stat (Ben):

• Only 2 preseason AP #1 teams have won the title in last decade; title typically comes from a top-5 preseason team.

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6. Interactive Game: “She Traveled” (46:46–55:08)

A trivia game connecting two current/former women’s players through teammates/teams/colleges in 3-4 steps or fewer.
Examples:

• Caitlin Clark to Brion January, with an Iowa Hawkeye in the chain
• Jewell Loyd to Bec Allen, requiring an undrafted player in the path
• Kelsey Plum to Diana Taurasi, using a UConn player

Fun, tricky, and showcases deep knowledge!

• "This is a game for all you WNBA women's basketball nerds out there." – Ben Pickman (52:01)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sabrina on freshmen: "The freshmen just come in ready to go. And I think we could get some real, real star power in this class." (18:13)
• Ben on Hidalgo: "She is a pest beyond pests on the court…there's a really strong case to be made for her to be player of the year." (21:01)
• Zena on Sarah Strong: "She eats other teams for breakfast at this point." (22:20)
• Sabrina on the unpredictability of conference play: "College sports are awesome…You got to wait until conference season…so just let it ease in, all right?" (34:33)
• Ben’s history note: "Over the last decade, the preseason number one team in the AP poll has won the national championship just twice." (37:22)
• Sabrina on Louisville coach Jeff Walz: "Betting on Jeff Walz to figure a team out over the course of the regular season is always a good idea." (33:02)
• Fun game banter:
  • "This is a game for all you WNBA women's basketball nerds out there." – Ben (52:01)
  • "Good work. So what I was looking for, we'll reveal the answer here…" – Ben (51:05)

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Key Timestamps

• Start of Predictions / Main Show: 02:12
• Freshman of the Year Predictions: 12:04
• Player of the Year Predictions: 19:02
• Surprise Team Discussion: 25:16
• Championship Picks: 34:25
• Interactive Player Connection Game: 46:46

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Episode Takeaways

• Jazzy Davidson is the consensus Freshman to watch, but Aaliyah Chavez could challenge.
• Sarah Strong and Lauren Betts stand out for Player of the Year, with Hannah Hidalgo a very real contender.
• UConn and UCLA are preseason favorites for the national title, but the hosts warn against ignoring South Carolina and possible surprises from teams like Iowa State, NC State, Washington, and Louisville.
• The episode combines serious analysis with lighthearted fun, featuring a nerd-friendly player-connection game to close.

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For those wanting a preseason lay of the land for women's college hoops, this episode is as comprehensive, entertaining, and insightful as it gets!

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(End of summary)

Transcript

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[Zena Keda]

Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by ebay. I'm Zena Keda.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Ben Pickman]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Keda]

And today on the show college basketball season has officially begun. So before it gets any further away from us, we are going to put all our our big prediction pod who's gonna take the biggest honors this season. Freshman of the year Player of the Year national champion. We got you covered. We're gonna give our predictions and some predictions for the teams that might surprise us. All surprising might be positive or negative. We'll see. But first, shout out to Ben and Sabrina. First of all, Ben, all of this, like, hype around the New York City Marathon, you were in the midst of all of that. It was unreal to see, just like the fanfare around it. PR'd tell us more about you being a part of the NYC Marathon.

[Ben Pickman]

I actually won the race. You know, I was first at59,000.

[Zena Keda]

I did not know that. Are you serious?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

Are you serious?

[Ben Pickman]

59, 000 people? I. I ran it no better than anyone else.

[Zena Keda]

No. Okay, sorry. So naive. I thought you were like, in your race group or something. I was like, wait, did you? Seriously? I don't know how it works, but I do know there was a great article about two of the legends of this race. Two Kenyan legends. I'm blanking on their names, but go read it. It's a great article. And they matched up. They did not win, neither one of them, but there's a great legend behind them. All right, Ben, sorry, back to you.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I, also, not a legend in the race, did not win the race. But, yeah, the New York City Marathon, it is the best day in New York City. The crowd support is amazing. Special shout out to a listener of the podcast at the mile 24 mark when I was very much hitting a wall and just trying to fight through the finish line, said that they were a listener of the show, said my full name, said they love the podcast that was on. That was very surprising and was a added boost. I've never gotten that on the marathon course before. But, you know, shout out to all the people who are out there supporting me, supporting the other 59,000 other runners, all the friends, the people of the city who commute in, all the people internationally. I mean, truly a great day. Yeah, it was my personal best in the New York City Marathon. I still have. I said an actual marathon personal best a couple of weeks ago, but that's neither here nor there. But, yeah, an amazing, amazing day in New York City.

[Zena Keda]

That is so cool. I hate long distance running with every fiber of my being. And so I am always so impressed when other people are doing it. And clearly you can tell, like, I know nothing about how it actually all works other than there is one winner. And I, you know, I didn't want to doubt you, Ben. I didn't want to doubt you, but.

[Ben Pickman]

I do want to call you should have. You should have doubted me. You should have doubted.

[Zena Keda]

The true winner of the race for the men's side was Benson Capruto. And then it was really cool because Helen Oberi set a personal record and also a world record fastest time on the women's side to finish the New York City Marathon. It was surreal. Lots more fun now that I'm reading the Athletic more about other sports other than just basketball. I found some really good articles about all of it. So Ben, appreciate you opening the door for us.

[Ben Pickman]

Great signs as well. So many like very funny signs about pop culture, signs about politics. Special shout out to listener of the podcast, friend of the show, my personal arch nemesis, Annie Costable for making a sign that said breaking news. Ben Pickman is fast. I was honored to receive that.

[Zena Keda]

So yeah, Annie, well done. Well done. All right now Sabrina, you, I got to see you last week on Friday when we shot the Athletic show over the weekend, you literally made the red eye to come in and help entertain and teach all of us about the WNBA CBA negotiations. This was literally right after Thursday night when the news popped that the WNBA, the WNBPA was accepting the 30 day extension. You came in to the show, broke it down for us. How was that for you to join the Athletic Show?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, a lot less exciting than running the marathon, I would say, but probably a fun weekend nonetheless getting to see you and we didn't bring you now, it didn't bring science.

[Zena Keda]

It was fun. It was cool to see that, you know, Jason Goff and Robert Mays, like they were. I was already excited but I feel like they were even more excited that you were coming in to break this down and help explain stuff. And as I mentioned on the show, guys, go check it out. Sabrina did a great job. We've got this segment specifically up on YouTube if you want to check it out. But we'll probably have one of you back to be able to break this down in 30 days.

[Ben Pickman]

You know, November before, before we continue. I mean, yeah, shout out to Sabrina on the Athletic Show. We should tell people who are not watching on YouTube you're wearing a Dodgers hat, Sabrina, Dodgers fan wearing a Dodger shirt. That was really your guys highlight of the weekend and of the last couple of days. I think we need to shout out the the back to back champions on that front.

[Zena Keda]

Back to back champions in a seven game series. We have derailed from women's basketball for a while here. But hey, we're giving love to people. Exactly. It's all sports. We're giving Love to people that earned it. And shout out to the Dodger and also really shout out to the Toronto Blue Jays. Like, people's stress levels were high this week. Okay. And it was due to this series just being crazy. I saw so many like Instagram Reels and TikToks of people basically throwing candy at folks on Halloween because they just could not be bothered by the event. As the game six was happening. It was surreal. And then game seven, of course. I don't know. Sabrina, you're better. You're a bigger fan. I'm a fan by association. What was your favorite part of the series?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Favorite part of the series? Geez. It has to be the Andy Pahes catch at the bottom of the ninth in game seven. Just trucking over. Kike Hernandez coming in as a defensive replacement. What, two plays earlier, just manning center field, doing what you got to do. I think he was in a 4 for 50 hitting slump. Came in, made the biggest play of the series, arguably. So yeah, just really cool. Like baseball, like, I mean, we talk about this like every sport, that every player on the team matters. I feel like it's the truest in baseball. Like literally every player on the team had something to do, some part to play. Full 26 man roster contributions. It's just, it's a very cool feeling. No team in LA is loved quite like the Dodgers. So it's cool just to be in the city when things like these are happening.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. The 18 inning game. Our producer's actually asking about this because it was surreal, the fact that it went on that long and it had made a record. Right. It was the longest World Series game.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, technically the Dodgers have actually played an 18 inning World Series game seven years ago that I also stayed up for. So it is a thing that has happened before.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, so it had happened before. I don't know if the time elapsed. They said that it was a record from that perspective, but again, stress levels were high. Shout out to the World Series champions back to back. Yoshinobu Yamamoto, him crying at the end, being hugged by his coaches. I'm a cancer, y'. All. I'm very sentimental, but that was really special to be able to see. Okay, guys, we are very off track right now because women's college hoops is here and we gotta talk about our predictions. Tell me if I'm alone here. No offseason listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again. On ebay, it's not mindless scrolling, it is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by the eBay authenticity guarantee. EBay things people love.

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[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I'm generally partial to people who play for USA Basketball. I feel like that's a very good way of, you know, getting yourself ready over the summer, leveling up in terms of competition relative to high school and players that excel at USA Basketball, especially because, I mean, I keep a special eye on the U19 World cup because I always feel like that's the hardest for Team USA because all of the Americans are either in college or high school, whereas the Europeans and like international players have. A lot of them have already played professionally. So I think it's the hardest level for the Americans to do. And so I always keep a very close eye on the U19 World Cup. And that's why I think my freshman year has got to be Jazzy Davidson. I don't think she was the very best player on Team USA this summer because that would be Saniyah hall, who is coming to USC next year and will probably my pick for Freshman of the Year when we do this a year from now. But I thought Jazzy was just awesome defensively. I think four and a half steals and blocks per game, nearly four assists per game, just like looks super comfortable and smooth on the court. And she's going to have a real opportunity to do a lot at usc. The only real returner from that rotation is Kennedy Smith. So there's a lot of shot opportunities, a lot of playmaking opportunities. She had a bit of an illness that kept her out of some practices of late for usc, so she's still sort of coming back. I wouldn't expect her to have a juju Watkins debut like she did against Ohio State two years ago. But I think just the body of work that she'll be able to put up for usc, a team that really has like a chip on its shoulder again because of, you know, all of the absences and all of the departures. But yeah, I think Jazzy's just like so confident, so smooth, and has just an excellent body of work already against the highest levels of competition. I think she would be not my runaway pick for Freshman of the year, but right now I pick for Freshman of the year.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and just piggyback off of you because that was also going to be my pick. Jazzy Davidson has an elite skill set. She can create her shot on the perimeter really well. I love that she's a two way player. You mentioned the stats of the U19. That's actually the stats I had as well. Being able to have just under 15.7 rebounds. Great. But also just under 4 assists and steals is like, okay, like, you are showing up on all sides of the ball and be able to contribute. And I think the only person that really could really challenge her in terms of getting some top stats as a freshman is Aaliyah Chavez. And main reason is because both of them kind of have the stage set for them to take over. There's a very big void to be filled in terms of not having juju Watkins, and Jazzy Davidson is primed to be able to take it over. And she seems really confident. Again, the U19 games, the McDonald's All American Games, I just love her. She has a very free way of playing, it seems, and, like, she has a lot of fun. And that's what I love about Jazzy, and it's also what I love about Aaliyah. So my runaway is really between those two, but Jazzy edges out. What about you, Ben?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I mean, I'll make this a clean sweep for a lot of the reasons that you talked about. I do think opportunity is a really big thing here, right. That she is a player of pedigree, as you both have said, and will have a lot of opportunity to have, you know, not only important defensive assignments, but to have the basketball in her hand. I mean, Sabrina mentioned, and you mentioned it to Xena, the Team USA performance. I mean, in three of their four elimination games, she had 18, 15, and 21 in those final three rounds that really took home that title. And so, yeah, I think she's well positioned to. To be the front runner for Freshman of the year on the Chavez case. Like, I think that's a really good call out. I think one of the things that'll be really interesting is those two programs kind of in different situations this year heading into the season. Right. Usc, I think with juju Watkins out, with some of the turnover that they've had more broadly, you know, yeah, they've been an Elite eight, Final Four contender the past couple of years, but I don't think people have that expectation for them this year just without Watkins on the court. Whereas Oklahoma has the potential to be, you know, a riser, a legitimate potential Final Four, you know, Elite eight team. And we've seen last year they make the sweet 16. And so, you know, Alicia Chavez is going into a winning situation. You have someone like Reagan Beers, who has been an All American before, who could be one of the best centers in the country. You have proven players around her, veteran, you know, experienced players. Right. Sahara Williams, you have, you know, among Others, you have Peyton Vorholz, like, you just have other people who have been experienced in the college game. You have a coach in Jenny Branch who, one of the best offensive minds, you know, highly regarded for what she can do. So I'm not sure that Aliya Chavez is going to get the counting stats just because there is a lot to go around and maybe that hurts her. But I do think Oklahoma will be in a better case in terms of overall record and maybe ranking by year's end. And maybe that does end up boosting her case when we end up deciding these awards in a couple months down the road.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, if Aaliyah Chavez and Reagan Beers can get like this point guard, big duo going. I mean, Aaliyah Chavez averaged like seven assists in high school. Again, yes, we know it's high school, but she is a playmaker. She is swaggy with the ball. And I can just imagine her penetrating in and Reagan beer sealing in, sealing off and be able to, you know, get that nice little dump pass in. It'll be fun if they can really create something, the two of them.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, that really is the big question. Right. And I think this is a really big year for Oklahoma. I mean, when they got her to commit Chavez, that was a huge commitment. Right. And it's not a program that we typically associate as, you know, one of the national powers. And when you look at the sec, when we talked about it last week, when we started to talk about the college season, I mean, that conference is so, so deep with talent. Right. It's not only South Carolina at the top, it's not only lsu. It's not only Texas Ole Miss. We talked about Cody McMahon and what she can mean as a transfer. Throw Oklahoma in the mess. And I'm sure I'm missing other programs who, you know, Vanderbilt programs who view themselves as legitimate second weekend and beyond NCAA Tournament teams, the Sooners very much have the potential to be that. So, you know, I guess we'll see if she's the missing piece that can really elevate them to, to that next level.

[Zena Keda]

Any honorable mentions? I immediately think of potentially a Sienna Betts at UCLA being able to get her three ball off with while her sister's inside taking up some space. You know, Stanford's got a new trio that they're rebuilding program. They'll get a lot of opportunity. To your point, Ben, about opportunity and having the chance to showcase what you're capable of. And they've got. They've got bigs, they've got guards.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, Sienna best was actually pretty high on my list. But, you know, the injury she suffered during the preseason and she's in a boot. She's not starting the season for ucla. So just starting a little bit behind the eight ball relative to these other freshmen is sort of like why she didn't end up on my list here. You know, Ben talked about Addie Deal last week at Iowa. Just a real opportunity to run the show for a high powered offense. So, like, she could, she could put up some numbers very clearly for, for the Iowa Hawkeyes. I mean, I think, I think you've hit the big ones. There'll be some freshmen who have opportunities to contribute in meaningful ways for, you know, a lot of teams. Like, we didn't talk about the South Carolina freshman, actually, like Alan McDowell, you know, might even be starting at the wing for South Carolina, you know, to start the season. So they're all good classes at this point. Like, the freshmen just come in ready to go. And I'm very excited for what this group is going to look like. And I think, I think we could get some real, real star power in this, in this class.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, I very much feel that way. And the funny thing is we're about to go into Player of the Year and you talk about they're all good classes to this point. And I'm already talking about someone that was just a freshman last year for my Player of the Year, and that's Sarah strong out of UConn. I feel like I don't want to go Clean Sweep. So before we keep moving, I want to start with you, Ben. Who's your Player of the Year pick?

[Ben Pickman]

No, I'm not going to go Clean sweep here.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, good. Okay.

[Ben Pickman]

I think Sarah Strong heading into your best player in the country, well deserved. She's the player that I think will give teams the biggest fit on any given night. But that player doesn't always win Player of the Year. And I think it is a combination of, you know, statistical output and also winning. And I think Sarah Strong, like, there might be some nights where, you know, some other players on her team have big nights and that hurts her case a little bit. So that takes nothing away from her. All of which is to say I'm going to go off the board. Well, not really off the board. I'm just going to take Hannah Hidalgo of Notre Dame to finally be the Player of the Year. A player who has very much been in the conversation for this award the past couple years. Her freshman and sophomore season, she was first team AP All American in both of Those years she's been at Coaches All American in both of those years. She has won ACC Player of the year last year and was first team in both of her first two years. And with Olivia Miles no longer a part of the program, you know, the keys to the program very much are in Hannah Hidalgo's hands. And we know that on both ends of the floor she can really be a disruptive player. Last year she's scoring, you know, 24 points per game, three and a half assists, three and a half steals, 40% from three. Like she is a pest beyond pests on the court. And we have seen her excel. And yeah, Notre Dame has had a bunch of roster turnover this year, but there's no reason to suggest that she will take a step back. And so if she's able to elevate her game even more, she's going to have the counting stats, she's going to compete, and if they win a little bit, I think there's a really strong case to be made for her to be player of the year.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I love this pick.

[Zena Keda]

I like this pick. I do, too. Yeah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Sabrina Winston even mentioned that Hidalgo is a two time ACC Defensive Player of the year too.

[Ben Pickman]

Right?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. Sabrina, I want to turn to you. Are you on the Hidalgo train?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm not. I'm not. I. This came down to two players for me between Sarah Strong and Lauren Betts, who, you know, UCLA was the number one team in the country for most of the year last season. Lauren Betts is quite clearly the best player on that team. I just thought she. Her efficiency last year, the way she just dominated the ball in so many situations. An excellent defensive player. She was Big Ten defensive player of the year last year. Probably the favorite for Big Ten player of the year this season. I can't quite get there with Bets because I think UConn is going to be a cut above every team in the country this season. And Sarah Strong, to me, is a cut above every player on UConn just how versatile she is with her game. You look at Betts versus Strong and like Betts excels in the paint and dominates the paint in a way that I think no other player in the country does. But Sarah Strong is good everywhere on the court. Like, she's got the three balls, she's got the defensive versatility. She can switch out on different kinds of players. And I think, you know, so much is going to be funneled to her for the Huskies because of the absence of Paige Beckers that she's going to have an opportunity to put up some real eye popping performances. So not a clean sweep, but two out of three of us, I guess they're going to go with Sarah Strong for player of the year.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, the numbers for me were that run in the tournament last year, I mean she averaged 19 points, almost 12 rebounds, four assists on top of the steals. And we saw her getting those steals at the top of the key. Right, like that. A guard usually should see a big like Sarah Strong and be like, ah, it's my day to cook today. All right, I'm ready. No, Sarah Strong is switching in front of you and she can move her feet incredibly well. I love the confidence in her game so early. She just wasn't rattled by the moment. The championship game against South Carolina, 24 points, 15 rebound, double double. This is what she does. She eats other teams for breakfast at this point. So I'm very excited to see what Sarah Strong does in just another year of her just getting better. And I think the rest of the country is well aware, I think she was preseason player of the year pick as well nationally. So I don't know. Ben Hanno got some work to do. But I definitely think that she's not too far off. I agree with you.

[Ben Pickman]

I have no negative things to say about the Sarah Strong case. I'm not going to disparage her. I'm not going to disparage, not at all. UConn. I'm not going to, you know, say that Sarah Strong will not be the national player of the year. I just think, you know, sometimes the best player isn't always the national player of the year sometimes.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Can you give me an example of that, Ben?

[Ben Pickman]

Well, really, really, Sabrina, what I'm trying to do is, I'm trying to remember, I'm trying to not let NCAA tournament runs just completely color my viewpoint heading into this season that we're talking about very different things between NCAA Tournament who's the best player in the tournament and who's going to be the best player in the regular season. We're talking regular season awards here.

[Zena Keda]

That's true.

[Ben Pickman]

That's true. Not just like NCAA tournament performances. And so in the back of my mind, with all of these predictions that I'm making, I'm just trying to remind myself, don't fall, don't succumb to recency bias. Don't succumb to the last couple games that I've seen. Like, don't do that, don't do that.

[Sabrina Merchant]

The thing is, we call me right because there are multiple player of the Year votes. You. There's the Wade Trophy, there's the Naismith Trophy. Like last year, you could have said juju Watkins was the player of the year, you could have said Paige Beckers was the player of the Year, and you'd be right in both situations.

[Ben Pickman]

So we should do a segment at the end of an episode during the college season is can you tell me what this award is for and who votes on it? Because I think all three of us would fail and I know some of these accolades we vote on, but I don't even think we could explain it.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, there's so many. There's some that are power forward centric, they're guard centric. It's a lot. But either way, I think you're right. And to your point, Ben, it's a really great point about not having the recency bias. If that was the case, then Lauren Betts would probably, technically, looking at what she did during the regular season, looking at the point differential that UCLA had behind her leadership, probably would choose Lauren Betts in this situation. To me, it's just the swagger of a freshman like Sarah Strong coming into high pressure situations and just not being rattled tells me a little bit about pre. It just, it prefaces a little bit of how she's going to approach this season alongside Az Fudd and all those. But either way, Sarah Strong, our pick. Two out of three.

[Ben Pickman]

All right.

[Zena Keda]

Not a clean sweep. I like it. A little diversity. Let's keep it going. Let's keep it rolling. And two surprises. Okay, before we get into championship talk, let's talk about some teams that might surprise us because not every story in women's college basketball is about the preseason favorites. Sometimes a team emerges like a phoenix out of the ashes and they shake up these standings and they make us. Hmm. Could someone else be coming out in the second weekend? Could someone else be in the Final Four? Basically, they capture our attention. So, Sabrina, who is intriguing you at this point to become your surprise team of the 2025, 2026 season?

[Sabrina Merchant]

You know, it's funny, like, earlier in the summer, I thought that NC State was going to be my surprise team. But then the first rankings came out and they were a top 10 team. And it's like, okay, I guess they're not surprising anybody, right? You know, Ziya James graduating, Saniyah Rivers graduating. You know, like, that's a lot of firepower. In addition to losing Madison Hayes, who's been a starter for them for multiple seasons now. So, yeah, I guess, I guess NC State cannot qualify as my surprise team because everybody's in on them. I think. Honestly, I think we're overrating NC State at this point. Like, it's going to take some time for them to figure out all of these new pieces, you know, with Camille Pierre coming in and just so much firepower lost from their perimeter group. So I went in a little different direction. I don't think this team is necessarily going to contend for a Final Four by any means, maybe a second weekend. But I really like the Washington Huskies. I look at all of the players that they're returning, you know, with Hannah Steins and Ella Dean and Savia Sellers, and it's just. It's a lot of firepower in the guard group. They've just gotten consistently better every season. You know, with Tina Langley there. The loss of Dalaia Daniels, like, makes me a little. A little concerned about, like, what they're going to do with their post group. But I like the Michigan transfer who just came in. I don't want to butcher her name, but Yulia Graviskaya, I think is how you pronounce her name. You know, they were just in so many Big Ten games last year that they just lost by a couple possessions, whether that was ucla, usc, Maryland, Ohio State. And I just feel like they're. They're so close to, like, making a big step here. I don't know if that's going to come this season or if it's going to come next season, but I really think this is a team that can make some noise in the Big Ten at the very least. And, you know, they have so much continuity coming back. You've got Avery Howell coming in too. Just adds a little bit more pop on the wing.

[Zena Keda]

So.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I just, I like a lot of their versatility in the guard group. A lot of their, you know, pieces coming together. And I think Tina Langley is just an awesome head coach. And yeah, I think. I think this is a team that could. Should be ranked honestly right now and probably could get into like that 15, 16 range at some point during the season.

[Zena Keda]

Mm. Okay. I like this. They're definitely gonna be bringing some, you know, front court action and presence for them, but, yeah, I don't know if I. I'm looking at this the right way because I would have gone with NC State in the sense of they're not surprising anyone. Yes, they're top 25, but they could surprise us in terms of finding its way, finding their way to the Final Four. Right. So I wouldn't disagree.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Is it that surprising for a preseason top 10 team to make the Final Four.

[Zena Keda]

The. Mm, that's a good question. Looking at the ways that number one seeds have played out. Right. Number one or number two seeds have played out going into the Final Four, do you. Would you say that NC State is going to be a number one or number two seed?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, they're number nine. They could easily be a number two seed. Right?

[Zena Keda]

Okay. All right. I'm thinking mainly that they probably won't be a number one or number two seed. And that's typically what we've seen end up in the Final Four. Um, not pencil it in. Don't get me wrong, it's been competitive, but in the last few years it's been mostly number one, number twos. And so that's why I feel like, okay, NC State might surprise some folks. I think I might just be a little bit of a homer right now with NC State and adding Camille P.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm not saying bad things about NC State. I'm just saying they can't surprise when they're already a top ten team.

[Zena Keda]

Fair. Fair. Yeah. You know, I think I'm also trying to make sense of the pick that I had for this because I might have evaluated this wrong. But Ben, you go ahead, you go first. Who's your surprise pick?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, my surprise pick is a team that I think we're sleeping on and I think has often slept on in the kind of the national conversation and has one of the most talented players in the country and I think is well positioned to be at least an elite eight team this year and that is the Iowa State Cyclones. Yes, they are a top 20 team in the country. So we're not going totally off the board here with like huge shocker. But Audi, Crooks, in the middle of everything that Iowa State does, you know, averaging 23 and 7 and a half last year. Crooks and, and Addie Brown, her frontcore partner, they are actually the highest scoring returning duo in NCAA Division 1 college basketball from last year to this year averaging nearly 39 points combined, which I think is pretty, pretty impressive. It is a team that a few years ago all we talked about was how inexperienced they are or they were. And now a lot of those players that were once freshmen are upperclassmen. Crooks is a junior, Addie Brown is a junior. They're transfer, you know, one of their high profile transfer, Jada Williams, she comes in from Arizona. She was a, you know, highly sought after recruit when she committed to the Wildcats. She was a McDonald's all American coming out of high School. She's on one of these, you know, Nancy Lieberman, point guard of the year award watch list, one of these member list. She's on one of these lists that, you know, of the awards that aforementioned awards that we don't know. I just think it starts with crooks and how difficult she can be to defend. And Iowa State I think is a program that maybe you guys agree, like I think they've underperformed a little bit last year based on the expectations that so many people had for them. I do think they were what preseason, they were eighth in the country and everyone was like, iowa State, Iowa State, Iowa State. Because the year before they were like one of the most endearing stories in this sport. But they go 23 and 12, they, you know, fall out in the first round, they bow out in the first round of the NCAA tournament. They're just 11 seeds. So to me, I think this is a bounce back year for Iowa State. And so, yeah, I guess still a national power, but I think they'll surprise some people and elevate their game in a way that, you know, we're not maybe expecting on a national radar just yet.

[Zena Keda]

I'm intrigued. I mean, I was not expecting that. I'm intrigued as well. Yeah, I was not either. And again, I think I might let this leave you guys to this one because my surprise pick was going to be Duke. And the main reason I think about that is. And then of course I also watched them the morning that we're recording this and I'm like, ooh, I might be surprised. Surprisingly, yeah, the offense wasn't looking so great. The three point shooting wasn't looking so great. However, I'm not counting them out. And again, yes, I know they're top 10, so they're probably not surprising anyone. But the continuity of that team having Jaden Donovan, that's like full court pressing folks by herself. Toby Fournier being another year older, being more aggressive on the ball now that she's in that starting lineup and being a more focal point of their offense and a defensive stall where as well she's blocking shots left and right, I, I think there's opportunity there for them to grow. And hell, Carol Lawson, there's a lot of eyeballs on you to make sure that you're, you're leading at the helm in a way that Team USA can properly benefit in 2028. So I'm not gonna count them out after this particular loss to Baylor at the time that we're recording this, but I feel like they might surprise some Folks and find a way to get themselves in that top echelon conversation which I feel so silly because they are top 10 already. If I had one more, I might. I wanna go like an Iowa State choice. But I don't have the same breakdown Ben, you have. And I feel like I want to give one to Jeff Waltz's Louisville again. I'm going to let y' all that are listening let me know if these are good choices or not.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But they're supposed to be a surprise, Xena, so it's fine if they're not exactly where you think they are now.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, that's true. That's true. I'm like walking through this. That's I'm doing.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Betting on Jeff Waltz to figure a team out over the course of the regular season is always a good idea. And they still have Taj Roberts who was awesome in her freshman season. Taj Roberts, yeah.

[Zena Keda]

Laura Ziegler that transferred in.

[Sabrina Merchant]

They're going to defend, you know, which is something I can't say about Iowa State, which is why I'm intrigued by Ben's pick.

[Zena Keda]

And we're talking about Oklahoma. They just got Raina Scott as well. That's going to help some of their perimeter shooting. They've got some freshmen that are coming in that I. I recall. So yeah, Louisville, you know, I like their game. They were like they got out the second round last year in the NCAA tournament. But it's. If you want to count on some like up tempo offense and the whole bench being utilized, count on Jeff Waltz to be able to provide you that. So Louisville, let's go with Louisville. Duke. I'm just going to put you to the side for now. Okay? We got to close this out. National championship conversation. Last year, UConn took the title. They beat South Carolina. UCLA and Texas were also in the Final Four. Players have moved on, people have graduated, things have shifted. Some people are injured, you know, and that's impacting some of these teams that were talking about. But things are going to be a little bit different because there's obviously some new names and new places and I'm wondering who do we think is going to take it all this season? How different will it really be? Sabrina, I feel like your answer is already at UConn. What are we thinking?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I have two teams in my discussion. Really. I only think that two teams can win the title this year.

[Zena Keda]

Only two. Okay, let's break it down.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I don't want to just restrict however many 200 days of watching college basketball to these two teams. And I should say, if you're a. A WNBA fan joining us for college basketball season for the first time, you got to be a little patient. Coming from the highs of the WNBA playoffs and starting with the first week of college basketball, it is an adjustment period, and that is okay. It is not going to look as pretty as it did when the Las Vegas Aces were wiped forward with the Phoenix Mercury. Okay? It's going to take some time. There's a little bit more missteps here and there. ATOs aren't as clean as you would expect them to be. So just college basketball is the pageantry, but it's great. College sports are awesome. Getting everybody into it, you know, the whole school fan base. You got to wait until conference season starts to see what these teams are really gonna look like. So just let it ease in, all right? If things do not look like what you're expecting in the first week, like, that is okay. Just give it some time, you know, just a little disclaimer. But by the time we get to April disclaimer, you know, and we do, we are talking about national title, you know, picks. I've been trying to make my Final Four, and I'm having a real hard time with it, but I do think UConn and UCLA are gonna be the two best teams in the country. And I know I said I was gonna take Sarah strong over Lauren Betts for player of the year just because I think, again, like, she's just a little bit more versatile in a way that Lauren isn't. But if UCLA is ever going to win, like, it's got to be this year. They have seven seniors in the rotation. Not like people who have potentially an extra eligibility who come back next season. No, all of these girls are gone after this year.

[Zena Keda]

Okay?

[Sabrina Merchant]

So this is the time. This is when Lauren Betts and Kiki Rice and Gabrielle Hawkins and Tamia Gardner and Gianna Nikkins and Charlie Sledger Walker, they gotta nut up, right? Like, this is the year to get it done, and if it's going to happen, it's got to be this season. And yet I cannot get the image of UCLA just falling flat against UConn in the national semifinal out of my head. So, you know, can they take another step forward like they did from 2024 to 2025? Maybe. But from what I know, from what Gino Arema has proven on the national stage, you've got Sarah Strongback, you've got KK Arnold and AZ Fudd and Haley Heckle and Sarah Williams. And just like an obscene Collection of talent in stores. I think this is UConn's title to lose. I feel very chalky saying it, but I have not done well betting against UConn in the past. Here we are, UConn Huskies, my 2026 national champion.

[Zena Keda]

Ooh, clock it, Book it. Sabrina Merchant saying UConn with UCLA in the championship game with them, but coming up a little bit short. I also noticed the the seven seniors. I think that that's probably one of the biggest aspects for me being that veteran heavy, having a chip on your shoulder because they got embarrassed also in the tournament last year. I feel like there's a. After the longevity and just the dominion they had over the NCAA throughout the regular season and then going into the final four weekend and just like not playing well, I feel like they've got a little bit of, you know, big guac sized chip on their shoulder there. Ben, who are you thinking for this conversation?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, I just love that Sabrina says she has not had a lot of success betting against the UConn Huskies because I have not had a lot of success betting on the UCLA Bruins. But guess what? As Sabrina said, I am going to fall on that sword if UCLA to win the national championship. I mean, Sabrina mapped out the case generally with all the returning experience that they have. It's not just bets, it's not just Kiki Rice, it's not just, you know, Hawkes. It's bringing back Charlize Ledger Walker coming off injury. To me, I think honestly one of, I don't know even if she is a sleeper, but she might be one of the most impactful or important transfers in the country. That's John and Eatkins coming from Utah. She could be the player that frankly serves as the spirometer for this UCLA team. I mean she was a 45% three point shooter last year, 12th in the nation. She was 54% the year before. They need some shooting and she could be that perimeter shooting that could lift them over the edge. Two years ago I bet on UCLA heading into the tournament to win the national championship. That did not happen. I don't even remember who I picked last year. It probably was UCLA and obviously that did not happen. And so I'm going to try for a third time and hopefully hit it. As Sabrina said, I do think I want to throw out one other stat here because again in the not wanting to be anchored to the AP poll and the rankings and all that kind of stuff. Over the last decade, the preseason number one team in the AP poll has won the national championship just twice. One of those teams was the 20152016 UConn Huskies. That team had Brianna Stewart on it, among other future WNBA superstars. And Collier also a member of that team. Yeah, exactly. So kind of an exception to the rule team. Who knows? Maybe we see this UConn team have that kind of legacy. But it is rare, relatively rare, for the number one team at the start of the season to go on to win the championship. Now, it is also rare for a team outside the top five in the preseason AP poll to go on to win the national championship. That has only happened three times over the last decade. So Sabrina says she only believes two teams can win the national championship. History would suggest that maybe that is a little bit of a smaller number. But you kind of have to be looking at South Carolina, at UConn, at Texas, at UCLA and LSU, and that kind of seems like the inner circle. Fairly so heading into the season.

[Zena Keda]

I mean, UCLA is not a bad option. They were top 10 defense, top 10, lukewarm praise. I would. You know, they're not bad of a pick. And I. I also am like, I'm thinking UConn, but I ain't gonna lie to you. I messed up. I messed up during the WNBA season. You know why? Because I felt it in my soul not to bet against the Las Vegas Aces, and I didn't. I went against my own thoughts around the Las Vegas Aces and Asia Wilson in particular, and I went with Phoenix in seven. Whoo. Was I wrong in that? Now, don't worry, Z. We were all right. I'm not letting that happen to me. Yeah, no, it's fine. It's fine. Right? But I knew Asia Wilson wouldn't let me down. And I feel the same way about Asia Wilson. Dawn Staley. I just feel like I can't count her out now. Yes, South Carolina is coming into the season with only 10 healthy players. Yes, Ashley Watkins is out. Yes, Chloe Kitts is out. But what I remember last year is when Joyce Edwards got a little bit more leeway. She stepped up, and she was big. And Joyce Edwards is going to have that opportunity to fill in the void of Kitts and Watkins being out. Raven Johnson is the ultimate penultimate leader of this team. I feel like she's been in South Carolina for so long, and now she's got her high school buddy t' Nai Latson alongside her. This backcourt could be a lot of fun. And if you guys read this recent article about t' Ni Latson, I am blanking at what publication it was At.

[Ben Pickman]

Sports Illustrated, our good friend of the podcast, Michael Rosenberg.

[Zena Keda]

Thank you. Michael Rosenberg did a deep dive on Tanai Latson. And when you get the gist of what she was saying, she was just kind of like, my first few years I was coasting, I was just good, but I didn't have to work that hard. Well, guess what? Of course, we know Brooke Wyckoff worked her in Florida State, but she always played the same role. For the last few years, T' ni Latson did. Now at South Carolina, she's gonna have to reinvent herself. And reinvent herself not necessarily change the fact that she was the top scorer in the country last year, but a little bit more two way game. Right? There's a standard and a pedigree that she's gonna have to buy into, I think, to be a part of South Carolina. And that's why I just can't count them out. So I'm gonna go completely off the UConn, the U's trail here, and I'm gonna go with South Carolina.

[Ben Pickman]

Well, that, that is still a USC of sorts. A different USC basically.

[Zena Keda]

Of sorts.

[Ben Pickman]

I do appreciate, I mean, I think Joyce Edwards, like, we should spend another minute talking about her because I think she is one of those players around the country. Like, heading into last year, she was one of the top freshmen. And I think it would, wouldn't have been unreasonable to pick her for freshman of the year heading into absolutely the season last year. And we saw her be really, really productive. I mean, she was South Carolina's leading scorer despite coming off the bench the entire season. You mentioned it. No Chloe Kitts because of injury. No Ashlyn Watkins because of injury. Of all these, you know, the players we've talked about, she is someone who, like breakout, potential, potential national breakout star. She could very well be that player by the end of the season because she is going to be so, so important to everything they do in South Carolina's front court, which depth has for so long been a strength of that program. They don't have the same depth overall that they've had in past years. And so, you know, I'm really, I'm curious. Like, we know Don Staley traditionally will keep minutes totals relatively low for her star players compared to other stars around the country. Joyce Edwards, last year she played just 21 minutes per game. Does that number rise to 32, 33? You know, I think I threw the stat out last year. Like, one or two players in over the last 10 years at South Carolina has averaged more than 30 minutes per game. And One of them is Asia Wilson. Like Joyce Edwards could be that player. And if she is and she stars, like the ceiling of that team could be very, very high. Higher than I think even a lot of people are expecting. And I guess, guess, you know, maybe that's a. They're preseason number two. So I guess there's high expectations, but like she could be the difference.

[Zena Keda]

There you go. Okay. I feel like we've got, we've got good representation here, different pockets of the country. I think the middle of the country is going to be pretty upset with us in terms of trying to figure out, hold on, where are we at in this conversation?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Ben gave a lot of love to Oklahoma and States.

[Zena Keda]

You know, there you go.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We talked about the Big Ten, which does not include the middle of the country, but.

[Zena Keda]

Right. Well, the way these conferences are aligned, we're a little bit everywhere anyways. But just want to hear you guys that are listening. Did we get this right? Are we thinking about this the right way? Are there players we're forgetting about coaches that we're forgetting about approaches, and I did not mean to rhyme that just now, but approaches to the game and this whole transfer portal and aligning the right people on a roster to be able to battle in the NCAA tournament. Let us know. We want to know what you guys think about these preseason picks. Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting thing, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay authenticity guarantee. Ebay Things people love. If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Of what you need.

[Zena Keda]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. This holiday season, connection with the kids we love is the best gift of all. Right now, kids on average are spending between five to nine hours a day on screens and studies link heavy use to rising anxiety and depression with social media being the center of it all. That's why Gab makes kids safe. Phones and watches, no Internet, no social media, just the right features for their age. With Gab's tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. So if a phone is on your child's wish list, make it a Gab the gift of safe connection. For an exclusive holiday offer, visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab that's G-A B B.com getgab Gab Tech insteps independence for them. Peace of mind for you. Before we get out of here, my boy Ben's got a game for us. Ben, drop it for us.

[Ben Pickman]

That is right, Zena. We are going to debut a new game as we debut and open the college basketball season. And it is a game that very much is all about player movement. And we should say that we are still going to talk about the WNBA throughout this off season, this WNBA offseason, just like we're going to talk about college basketball during this winter, of course, because it is starting. And so the first edition of this game, which we are calling she Traveled very much, plays on both WNBA player movement, but also with some college wrinkles thrown in. And the concept for the game is pretty simple. It's just trying to show connections, or you're going to have to guess the connections between one player and another player. So basically trying to tie them together from, you know, different teammates that they've had or programs that they have played to. And again, just try and find the string that connects two players together. And so I'm going to throw out two players, one that I want you to start with, one that I want you to end with. And I might throw in an additional parameter or two, like a college or WNB 18 that they played for. And I'm going to say you have to connect that string in, you know, X number four or five steps, players or less. Does that make some sense?

[Sabrina Merchant]

So just just curious, like, if I go from Asia Wilson to Brianna Stewart, is that one step if it was.

[Ben Pickman]

Asia Wilson and Brianna Stewart? Well, there were never teammates. So I'm just saying.

[Zena Keda]

Is that Team usa? No.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Oh, I was going to say. Okay, I'll specify when it's a Team USA allowed. I thought about it especially for this edition. I know Team usa. I was focused more on WNBA and college. Okay.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I guess just what I mean to say is, like, if there's like a one Link in between them. Like, if we go from, like, Asia Wilson to Kia Stokes to Brianna Stewart, is that one step or is that two steps?

[Ben Pickman]

We'll say that's one step. Okay, that is one step. And that is a good example. Right? If I were to say Asia Wilson to Brianna Stewart in less than two steps, you would say Kia Stokes, and you would win because Asia Wilson played with Du, who played with. With Briana Sword in college. Sound good?

[Zena Keda]

Sounds good.

[Ben Pickman]

Great. All right, so the first round here, we have a WNBA to former WNBA player turned WNBA coach edition. I'm asking for Caitlin Clark to Brion January.

[Zena Keda]

Love that.

[Ben Pickman]

And I'm asking that one of the steps involved involves a player from the Iowa Hawkeyes.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Pickman]

Okay, so you need an Iowa Hawkeye, and you need to do this in three steps or fewer. So I'll play it back. Caitlin Clark to Brion January using an Iowa Hawkeye. And you have. We'll say three or four steps. We'll give you the max. You can do this certainly in three, probably less.

[Zena Keda]

And you can't have players that were coached by Brianne Brion, because then you.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Would just already have Caitlin Clark to Brian January.

[Ben Pickman]

This is player Brion January.

[Zena Keda]

Just wanted to make sure.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay.

[Zena Keda]

I was like, okay, so Breon January as a coach, Indiana, but Seattle.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay, I have an idea. I have an idea.

[Zena Keda]

Then. Okay.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I think what you have is right. So you go Caitlin Clark to Kate Martin.

[Zena Keda]

Right. Okay.

[Sabrina Merchant]

No, actually, that's not gonna work because Kate never played with Jewel Lloyd. So that's. Seattle's not gonna work.

[Zena Keda]

Ooh. Yeah. Right.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Cause I was thinking Joel played with Bri Jann in Seattle.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. So who. Anybody on Tiffany Mitchell? No. Nope. Tiffany Mitchell.

[Ben Pickman]

You're on the right track. You've said one of the key players in this answer that I have mapped out.

[Zena Keda]

Sabrina Kate Martin.

[Ben Pickman]

I think it's Kate Martin.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So I'm also actually thinking, like, Brianne January was on Phoenix for a smidge.

[Ben Pickman]

Right? She was.

[Sabrina Merchant]

When was she on Phoenix, though?

[Zena Keda]

I can't remember. I'm only thinking about her Seattle days.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay, so if we go. How many steps are we allowed?

[Ben Pickman]

We'll say up to four for this version. But you only said before less than three. But we did this in three.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Did Kate Martin play with Megan Gustafson at Utah?

[Ben Pickman]

Ah, see, we have now, yes, because.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think Kate Martin's pretty old, Right? Like, she did six years at Iowa. Right.

[Zena Keda]

She definitely played with Megan Gustafson.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay, so Megan Gustafson played with Jewel Lloyd. So Jewel Lloyd played with Brian January in Seattle.

[Ben Pickman]

There.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Brian January.

[Zena Keda]

Okay.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Good work. So what I was looking for, we'll reveal the answer here. Caitlin Clark played this season with Sidney Coulson.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Ah, yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Sidney Coulson played with Megan Gustafson.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

Who also played with Jewel Lloyd, who played with Brion January.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Gotcha.

[Zena Keda]

So I'm happy Seattle was the connector.

[Ben Pickman]

That was. That was an incredibly good, incredibly good effort. I think that is for a first round. Very proud of that effort. Next round also involves a player we just talked about. Jewel Lloyd. This is going to be a Jewel Lloyd. We're going to off the board here to Beck Allen. Okay. We. Last year. Last week, we had some unrivaled news. I was thinking about Beck Allen joining unrivaled. So we have Jewel Lloyd to Beck Allen, and we need you to use one player who went undrafted. Undrafted as Chew Lloyd to Beck Allen.

[Zena Keda]

Allen. Hilarious back.

[Ben Pickman]

This is a game for all you WNBA women's basketball nerds out there.

[Sabrina Merchant]

God. All right. The only player I can think of who is undrafted, like all of the Phoenix players from the season who didn't play with either Joel Lloyd or Beck Allen.

[Zena Keda]

Right. That's fair.

[Ben Pickman]

Or.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think Erica Wheeler was undrafted, but she was on Seattle this year. Not with Jewel Lloyd last year.

[Ben Pickman]

But. But, Sabrina, were there any players who played with Erica Wheeler in both years?

[Sabrina Merchant]

How many steps we have?

[Ben Pickman]

I said two steps in between.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Two steps.

[Ben Pickman]

Okay. You might have hit the undrafted player to make this work pretty easily.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Gotcha. Okay, so Jewel Lloyd. How do we get from Erica Wheeler to Beck Allen? Is the question now, really? Erica Wheeler played in la, in Atlanta, in Indiana.

[Zena Keda]

Wait, we're getting from Jewel Lloyd to.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Beck Allen, but we need to drew an undrafted player.

[Ben Pickman]

Well, I'm just going to reveal it because.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, go for it.

[Ben Pickman]

It's a close question. Eric Wheeler actually played three games with Beck Allen in 2015 WNBA season with the New York Liberty. So you could have done any number of Seattle Storm players to Erica Wheeler to Beck Allen. So Erica Wheeler really the name to know there in this undrafted conversation. Okay. We're going to do one more round of this game and test people's trivia. It's going to be Kelsey Plum to Diana Taurasi using one Yukon player, one yukon player, one UConn player, not Taurasi. And we'll say less than. I did this in two steps in between.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. What did Azrae Stevens play?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Azrae Stevens played at UConn. That was my first thought. Yeah, yeah. She played in Chicago. Did anybody from Chicago play with Diana Taraka. Very good. Excellent.

[Ben Pickman]

That's it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

Was it ka.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Azeri, Dakata, Diana Taurasi.

[Ben Pickman]

Perfect. That's a valid, very good answer. That was not what I was looking for. But you all see the point for that. Well done.

[Zena Keda]

I had to make up for that last round because I was.

[Ben Pickman]

I was going a little more off the board with this prep that I think Sabrina will appreciate because it has one of a former college player that we've talked a lot about off air. Kelsey Plumb played with Tiffany Hayes. People forget UConn back in the day.

[Zena Keda]

I don't think 2012.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. Who played with Liz Dixon? Liz Dixon. Oh, my God. People. How could you forget Liz Dixon?

[Zena Keda]

Absolutely not.

[Ben Pickman]

Who also then was.

[Zena Keda]

People forget Tip Hayes overstates. I mean, no disrespect to Liz Dixon, but I'm not forgetting. Yes. Yeah. So I was going.

[Ben Pickman]

I was going Plum to Hayes, who was teammates on the 2023 Connecticut sun with Liz Dixon, who then became teammates.

[Sabrina Merchant]

With Diane Stevens to Kalia Copper is a little bit more elegant than that.

[Zena Keda]

Boom.

[Ben Pickman]

I think it is, too, but it's a little less fun. But points for both fun and creativity and just getting. Getting it right. Well done, guys.

[Zena Keda]

That's a great game. Ben, you're gonna have to come up with a few more. That was a lot of fun. Thank you. Let us know if y' all were able to keep up with it. Liz Dixon, we're going into the archives here.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, we said Louisville went surprised. You know, Louisville surprised by their entrance into this podcast.

[Zena Keda]

Jeff Waltz is not surprised. He knows what's up. He knows what's up. All right, guys, that's all we've got for you today. Reminder, if you got some questions about the CBA and what's going on as well as this new college hoop season that is literally just happening right now. Now go send them to our email nooffseasontheathletic.com Send them to our DMs, Socials, all the above. We wanna know your questions, folks. Cause we wanna be able to answer them. All right, so make sure you send those out. And then we've got more information in the show notes just in case you forget what I've just said. But no [e-mail]. hopefully it's not that hard to remember. But wherever you're listening, make sure you're following our show subscribing. Go follow the athletic show as well. You never know when Sabrina Merchant might pop on and Teach us something new and subscribe to the YouTube. Make sure your friends know about it, your family, everybody that cares about women's basketball. This is the pod they need to be on. I just told my vet this morning about the pod. She was really excited to hear about it. So do your job, y'.

[Sabrina Merchant]

All.

[Zena Keda]

Do your job. And of course head on over to our partner, the Yahoo. Sports hub for more content. That's sports.yahoo.com womens-sports on behalf of the Athletic Ben Pickman, Sabrina Merchant. I'm Zena Kaeda thanking you for listening and we will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations. Morning Zoe.

[Ben Pickman]

Got donuts. Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me so that. Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them.

[Sabrina Merchant]

It's designed to be the most powerful.

[Ben Pickman]

Iphone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow, impressive. Let me try.

[Zena Keda]

T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Ben Pickman]

T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Zena Keda]

So what are we having for launch? Dude, my work here is done.

[Ben Pickman]

24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers + tax and 35 device connection charge credit same and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oakload Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025. Visit t mobile.com this episode is brought to you by Adio. The AI native CRM add IO is.

[Zena Keda]

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[Ben Pickman]

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[Zena Keda]

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[Zena Keda]

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[Zena Keda]

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[Ben Pickman]

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[Zena Keda]

Pets, but we love to travel too, and sadly, they can't always come along for the ride. Don't stress. Trusted House Sitters connects you with verified sitters who will stay in your home and care for your pets, all in exchange for a place to stay on their travels. So while you're off exploring, your pets get to stay safe and happy at home, right where they belong. Find a loving in Home Pet sitter [e-mail].