← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Should USA Basketball Have Selected Caitlin Clark? Plus Liberty/Mercury Heating Up
01:01:27
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- [00:00]
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Zena Keda
There to watch them.
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- [05:14]
Zena Keda
For the Athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Oh, welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's hoops. Whether you're A die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes the game or you're a casual fan to find out. You know, looking to find out what's going on with this Olympic situation. Don't you worry, you're in the right place. Make sure to subscribe to this pod wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. Also, subscribe to the Athletic. You do not want to miss out on our year round in depth. NWNBA in Olympics in college. Whatever you need for women's hoops coverage. All right, as always, I'm joined by the Athletic, women's basketball writer Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. Let's go through what we're covering today or what we like to call the scout. First up, we gotta talk about. Something is brewing in northeast United States and it's actually not the Connecticut sun that I'm talking about, folks. It's the New York Liberty. And we are talking about they're on a special run. Connecticut sun are involved in that and our writers talked about it. We're going to look at the power rankings for the week and see where they ended up there. And then there's a team out west that, you know, for the last two years people have not been concerned about how they're gonna do. Might be time to look back at that. We're gonna talk a little bit about the Aces too. Then we're gonna talk about this whole Olympics thing. Caitlin Clark not making the team. 871 comments on that story. At the time that we're recording, clearly y'all cared a lot about that. We have to cover it. We'll be talking about it. And then last but not least special special topic for me, Brittney Griner coming back. Finally got her on media day and is finally making her debut. Sabrina, you talked a little about this in your power rankings. We'll also discuss that. So let's get into it. First and foremost, New York Liberty at the time that we're recording this seven zero run and one of those wins was against the team that had just gone 90 being only the seventh team in WNBA history to do that to start the season 9. And oh, that being the Connecticut sun, they hadn't faced some really big competition just yet. We actually talked about that on our last pod saying like, hey, yes, CT sun are on a roll. But just, just take it easy a little bit. They haven't seen the Liberty yet. They haven't seen the Aces and all the above and well, boom, Liberty come to town, hand them a loss. There's something special in New York going on. Ben, I want to start with you because this was a team that you covered extensively last year and this was when they were just starting to come together and now it feels like they're just rolling. They are gelling. What are you seeing in terms of the the step forward that they've taken since last year after they were doled a loss in the WNBA finals?
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Ben Pickman
All season long the New York Liberty have talked about chemistry and continuity really being the difference in their minds for what separates the 2024 team versus the 2023 team. As you mentioned at Xena, their win over Connecticut. They snapped Connecticut's unbeaten streak on Saturday was Super impressive. That 8275 win and it was an unbelievable performance from Jonquil Jones who over the Weekend averaged nearly 26 points and eight rebounds. Missed only nine shots from the field. She was unbelievable all weekend long. But one of the things that's kind of struck me in watching the Liberty over this run is they've talked a lot about how there were games over this run that they might have lost last year or would have lost last year that they actually have been winning this time around. Washington on Sunday was a prime example of that. They ended up beating the Mystics I believe by six points in a close game. And this is a winless Mystics team. But they kind of talked about how they are kind of learning to play with each other and find ways to win games when they are not at their best. And that is something that I think is the sign of a really, really good team. That's one of the things last year they were they would go through these lulls often at home and they would drop these games to Atlanta, to Phoenix sometimes like to some of these teams to Washington teams that you think they should beat or be more handily and they would lose right now, especially over the case of this run. This last seven straight they haven't done that and I think that's really impressive. And before you go Sabrina, I mean the two things that really stand out more than Brianna Stewart last year, reigning mvp, it's jonquald Jones and it's Sabrina Unescu who have just been, you know, unbelievable this year to start the year. Jonqual Jones, I think on a nightly basis, you know, you can make a case that she is the best player or the most dominant player in the whole world. Like she has that ability, that presence, the ability to impact games and Sabrina Jesku more this year than she has in the past. And we can explain some of the Reasons why she's attacking the basket. That was something she worked on a lot over the off season. And she's not just pulling up from threes where we know she's so competent. She is heading to the rim, attacking the rim. And it opens up a whole nother dimension in the New York Liberties offense especially.
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Zena Keda
That was the part, Ben, that I really liked. Sabrina's breakdown in your power rankings was about Sabrina Ionescu's game changing from being this three point assassin to now being like a mid range mommy. I was like, wait. The two point game for Sabrina is also developing and particularly in these first few games, you've seen her come off of screens and get that nice little pocket right off the screen inside the three point arc to get her two point shot off or going all the way to the basket. Sabrina, when you look at the big three, particularly Sabrina Ionescu and Brianna Stewart and Jonquill Jones, all of them taking a step forward, which excites you the most out of the three of them of their game, evolving and being able to be exactly what the New York Liberty need to get to the next level.
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Sabrina Merchant
You know, it's interesting when you asked that question and you said the New York's big three, I was thinking Benijah Laney first. I didn't even come up with the trio of Stewie, Sab and jj but I mean forever John Quail Jones has been just like the barometer for what New York is going to achieve. Like I think about why, you know, Sloot and Stewie recruited her so hard to New York in the first place. Like Ben talked about that group text they had a year ago when they were making their collective free agency slash trade decisions in the 2023 off season. But I mean there was that stat during the playoffs last season. Like if JJ has a double double, New York is undefeated during the season. And I think Ben sent me a stat the other day that like when JJ scores 20 points, her teams are 44 and 4, like during her WNBA career. Which that's, it's a pretty big number, right? 44 wins to four losses. And you think about who could really stop JJ from scoring 20 points in the game. Like it's pretty much only Jonquil Jones who can stop herself from being that dominant on any given day. So I just think she does so many things to unlock everything else for the Liberty. Like she's the one who's their major room protector, right? Like she protects the paint, she allows Benaj, Elainey and sab. And like all of the myriad Wings that are coming off the bench for New York to be super aggressive on the perimeter, knowing that they have that backstop in Jonquil Jones. She is a center, you know, who can post up and be really physical in the lane, but also spreads the floor and then opens up all of that space in the paint for Laini and increasingly Sabrina Nescu to work with. So the fact that she's just so malleable and versatile, but then like good at literally everything she does makes her just this wildly irreplaceable player. And you know, just thinking about the motivation that she's coming into this year with, you know, to have lost and back to back WNBA finals with two separate teams, but both to Las Vegas, like, she's just been absolutely incredible this year. Like, I know we'll talk about Olympic team stuff later, but the idea that Jonquil Jones is once again the best player on team wnba, you know, that's going to be playing Team usa and that tune up is very exciting to me. But yeah, I think she's the one that stands out to me most of what the Liberty have done thus far.
- [13:44]
Zena Keda
And she's just such an exhausting defensive assignment to be just to be inside trying to stop her from using her size inside and just taking over. And then you gotta run all the way out to the three point line to make sure she doesn't put a three up on your face. Like, what if I have to guard her? I'm just like, oh God, y'all got me. Y'all, can we. Y'all got my back. Because if she has to go all the way out and I'm coming from. I just was inside battling with her. It's a lot. It's a lot. Now, particularly looking at this win over the Connecticut Sun. I want to know, is this for you a reflection of the New York Liberty are just so dominant or Connecticut didn't come to play their regular game that they've been playing in this 9, 0 run.
- [14:37]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I don't think it was a dominant win per se by the New York Liberty, but I think, you know, give them the credit for pulling this one out, especially in the fourth quarter. I mean, you look at that fourth quarter, and not to highlight the names that, you know, we've talked about, but you know, Jonquill Jones and Sabrina ionescu, they scored 17 points combined in that fourth quarter. Connecticut as a team scored just 15 points and that was really the difference in the game. Right? New York actually trailed heading into the fourth quarter and outscored Connecticut by 10 in that final frame, in large part because of Sabrina, you know, creating. She had eight points for herself, but also had four assists. And jj, who had nine points and was, you know, hit three threes in that fourth quarter, that really were the difference. And so, you know, the play of the two of them and the way they feed off each other, I think credit to them. And overall, it was a sign, as I said, like, New York, I don't think played their best game as a. As a team. It was certainly a game that was important to them. Sandy Rondello, if you look at the rotation, she played her bench a total of just 21 minutes or 22 minutes the whole night. Like, she basically rode her starters. Stewie played 38 minutes. JJ played 37. Benijah played 37. Like, she was leaning on her starters on Saturday because they knew how important it was for the Commissioners cup standings. But New York didn't play its best. They shot just 36% from 3, among other metrics. And so I give them a lot of credit, you know, Sabrina and John Quell, especially for finding ways to pull it out. John Quell, Xena, you mentioned it. You talked about how exhausting it is to guard her. I think it's a really fitting word in this context because, you know, yesterday as she was reflecting on the Mystics victory, she was kind of asked about what's different for her this year. And one of the things she said is just like, I'm in better shape, right? Last year, you have to remember, in 2023, she entered the year was slowed in training camp because of an injury. She didn't really practice a lot in training camp. She was on minutes restriction or more limited role at the beginning of the year, kind of. It took her really until the second half of the season to look like the Jonquil Jones League MVP that a lot of people expected. So, you know, in many ways, this is a continuation of the player people saw during the, you know, the stretch run and during the finals. And she's just kind of picked up right where she left off. The question I still have for the Liberty is like, can they get everyone to come together, you know, on the right night at the right time? Like, sometimes it does look like they go through these lapses and they still admit to doing just that. And then the other thing I'm still curious about as the season progresses is how much does Sandy Rondello really lean on her bench? You know, right now, they're currently playing the last couple games of this win streak without Courtney Vandersloot, who's been out for personal reasons. Niara Sabali has also been dealing with a back injury. So in theory, the roster's depth will look a little deeper when some of those players come back. And maybe New York's rotation goes back to seven or eight players. But Sandy had talked about entering the year wanting to lean more on her reserves and not burning out her starters. And so it will be interesting in key games throughout the regular season. How does she manage that rotation? We saw on Saturday, she was going full force like it was a playoff game. The question is, you know, in mid August, in late August, if they need a win, what does she do? Does she have enough trust in her bench that then sets them up for the playoff run. But New York right now looks really good. Their defense is much better and there's a lot to be optimistic about. As you know, June continues on, but.
- [17:52]
Zena Keda
I like the way you mentioned it. I mean, she was playing her team as if it was a playoff game. But it's not a playoff game. It's a Commissioner's cup game, which is real. All right, A tournament in season, opportunity to make some money. Sabrina, break that down a little bit for some of our listeners that might be new to the sport and try to figure out, you know, what's the Commissioner's Cup? Maybe they watch the NBA and they're like, did the WNBA copy the NBA? Absolutely not, folks. The NBA saw opportunity. Okay? WNBA has been doing this. Tell us a little bit more about the Commissioner's Cup.
- [18:27]
Sabrina Merchant
So as you alluded to, Zena, this is the fourth year of the WNBA Commissioner's cup started in 2021. Seattle won that year. Vegas won in 2022 in New York. Is the defending Commissioner's cup champion. They won actually in Las Vegas on the Aces home court. It was one of only two home losses the Aces suffered during the entire season preseason Commissioner's cup playoffs all included. So you know, the liberty by virtue of beating Connecticut in that game on Saturday clinched the East's birth in the Commissioners Cup Final. And they will be hosting the Commissioners cup final on June 25. The west opponent is still to be determined. A lot, a lot is going to go into who comes out of the West. We could still have a five way tie among Vegas, Minnesota, Seattle, Los Angeles and who's the team I'm missing? Phoenix. Yeah. So five way tie is possible within the West. So just, just to back it up real quick, like east teams all play each other once. West teams all play each other once. Best Record in those five games advances to the Commissioners cup final. New York, as you mentioned, has won their last seven games, five of and four of which are Commissioners cup games. So they. Five of which, I'm sorry, they beat Washington on Sunday, four leading into Connecticut. But yeah, they went 5 and 0 in their Commissioners cup games. So they are best in the East. They will be hosting that game, except on the West. It's just a little, a little bit more cure at this point. We'll talk about that in a second. But like you mentioned, some money in their pockets, like the playoff bonus for the WNBA champion is just about 11, $12,000 per person for winning the Commissioners Cup. Mind you, one game, a one game tournament that exists between the west and Eastern Conference Commissioners cup qualifying champions. The team gets $500,000. So if your team has 12 players on it, that is $40,000 plus per player. Right. If your team has 11 players on it, that's an even bigger sum. So there is a lot of money involved in the Commissioner's Cup. I've talked to a WNBA front office person who said that the celebration that they saw after a Commissioner's cup win was bigger than the one they saw after a WNBA Finals win at one point because of all of the money that comes into people's pockets. So it's definitely a big deal. I think what's cool about the WNBA is how they streamlined the process a little bit this year. Like, you know, over previous seasons, it was sort of unclear as to when a Commissioner's cup game was when it wasn't this time. For the last two weeks, it's, it's all been Commissioner's Cup. We've got that special black and white ball, you know, to sort of signify that this is a separate game. And yeah, I mean, you can tell that like it matters. I mean, teams will write it off and say like, oh, we're trying to win every regular season game, yada, yada, yada. But like, just look at the stakes in the Western Conference this week and you'll see just some, some little extra oomph in terms of teams trying to get that bid into the Commissioners Cup Final.
- [21:10]
Zena Keda
Oh, I bet. So not only looking at the umph that you're seeing on the court, make sure to look for the ball, folks. That's something that I don't think I even noticed, but I definitely noticed the black and white ball, but I don't know if I knew particularly that it was for the Commissioner's Cup. So usually orange and white ball for regular Games black and white for the Commissioner's Cup. That's a. That's a nice tell. So we're closing out the east here. Looking at your power rankings, you moved New York from 4 to 1 above the Connecticut sun, and, yeah, that makes sense. Big jump, but it makes sense after going 7 and O in your last few games. But as you look down the list, there's a team that, you know, last year, you probably pretty much never moved them out of the first place, and now it's looking like every single week, they seem to be dropping a little bit. Okay. And that. That team, folks, is the Las Vegas Aces. And, Ben, I'm happy you were just talking a little bit about the depth aspect, because I think that's a huge thing in especially the WNBA when you think about these small rosters and people having to work with the talent that they have on these rosters throughout the course of this season. And if there's one team all season long that I've been like, oh, that depth is looking suspect, it's looking real concerning. It's the Aces. It's the Aces. And with Chelsea Gray out, she has not played a game yet. Jackie Young, she sat her first game with an illness. She wasn't feeling well, and actually ended up sitting out against the Sparks in their last game. And then you end up having Kate Martin, rookie, come in, not only start play, 32 minutes, was efficient in that time by. Don't, you know, give my respects to Kate Martin. But you're looking at that bench, and you're like, whoa, Kate Martin's coming up the bench before others are, and it is gonna end up being a game of depth later on in this season. Are you at all, Ben, concerned about the Aces?
- [23:18]
Ben Pickman
I have been wrestling with this at the start of this season, and frankly, I err on the side of. No, I'm not actually that concerned. You know, Becky Hammond talked a little bit about it on Sunday night, and Sabrina was there and can talk more about this in some more depth. But, like, she acknowledged, and I think wanted to continue to emphasize it into the ether, that, like, they're playing without Chelsea Gray and they're playing last night on Sunday night without Jackie Young, and that they will look a lot different without, you know, without those players than they do with those players. And I think that is, like, a really, really obviously reasonable thing to say. If we're gonna, you know, circle to New York, like, take Brianna Stewart and Jonquil Jones off that roster, what do you have. You have a team similar to that in 20, 22, that went 16, 20. Like, they're just not as good when you take two MVPs off of it. And that's the same case with the Las Vegas Aces. And so, you know, like, I have a hard time right now. You know, Las Vegas is clearly in a little bit of a ride, right? Like, they're clearly going through the injury bug is clearly hampering them a little bit. They're not playing their best basketball. You know, Becky Hammond has talked a lot about, like, the attitude of some of her players and teams. Opponents are also giving them their best shot on a night to night basis. But at the same time, like, frankly, what does any of this matter for them? Like, the Commissioners cup, as Sabrina mentioned, has a lot of stakes and there's a lot of money. And I'm sure those players would love that money, though, you know, if the pool for each player there is $50,000. Well, the Las Vegas Tourism Commission, I.
- [24:45]
Zena Keda
Was going to say they got taken care of. They're like, right.
- [24:49]
Ben Pickman
They might be getting double that anyway. So, like, what does it matter if they win the Commissioners Cup? And so, like, they're not playing in theory, if you take that out, like, they're playing for seating, which obviously matters, but they are playing for October. Like, they are playing for September and October. And so, like, it's too early to be up in arms, in my opinion, about how they look, you know, maybe in August 31st, if they're like this, you know, ring those bells a little bit more. But right now I'm pausing. I don't know. Sabrina, what do you think of someone who's been around this team so much?
- [25:22]
Sabrina Merchant
So I mentioned this in a story I wrote about the Aces Sparks game on Sunday, you know, which ended in Becky Hammond's ejection because she stepped over the half court line and was outside of her coach's box. But the aces lost their fourth game of the 2023 season on August 19th. At that point, they had won 28 games. So they lost their fourth game of the 2024 season on June 9th, and at that point they had won five games. So big difference between 28th and five, incidentally, the Sparks, the team delivering them their fourth loss in both seasons at vastly different points of the year.
- [25:56]
Zena Keda
But interesting, interesting.
- [25:59]
Sabrina Merchant
I think, I think that gap is just worth mentioning. Like, it is not insignificant to go from 28 and 4. 2, 5 and 4. And yeah, maybe you don't want to face, like, if you're going to be going through injuries, if you're going to be going through adversity, this is a better time to be going through it. This is a time when you figure out what Kate Martin is made of. Can she hang in these big, tense moments? Can Megan Gustafson hang in this situation? Like, we're just bringing in Tiffany Hayes. I don't even know if she's gone through a full Vegas practice. Like, what are we going to get out of her? This is the time that you'd rather be struggling than in August and in September. But, I mean, you look at the Aces last year, did they struggle? Sure. They lost two games in a row in August when they went to the White House. They lost to the Mystics and then the Liberty, but they only lost six times the entire season. Right. Our definition of struggle is really doing some work to describe what Las Vegas went through during the course of that regular season. So when the goal is a championship and you look at teams around you that have shown the ability to play at that level more consistently, like, look at New York. They've won seven games. There are obviously more games than Vegas has won over the entire regular season, although the number of games they've played obviously has something to do with that. You look at Minnesota, who has come together really well and has as good a net rating as anybody else in the league. Seattle comes into Las Vegas, beats them on their home court. These are just things that weren't happening at any point last year. And it's not so much that I worry about what Vegas is capable of. I just think the level around the league has gone up a significant amount. And, yeah, maybe these aces can be as good as they were in the 2023 playoffs. Is that still going to be good enough to beat the caliber of opposition that is now in front of them? So, you know, again, I don't want to make any proclamations before Chelsea Gray can come back. And the fact that she's, you know, reportedly going to be on the Olympic team suggests that she will be playing in July. You know, this is not a forever injury. Jackie Young, I mean, to be missing two Olympians, like, that's insane. Like, that's a lot of talent to be without in your roster. And like, when you're playing a team that pushes the pace as much as Los Angeles Sparks do, any disadvantage in depth obviously shows up in a very dramatic way. So I'm not going to say that, like, I don't think Vegas can win the title this year. That's obviously, like, not what I'm trying to say here. They still have Asia Wilson, they still have the very best player in the world. I just don't know that, like, that level of dominance is ever going to be achievable for this particular season that we saw last year.
- [28:24]
Ben Pickman
And I think, like, to Sabrina's point, maybe we are all too rational and reasonable people on this call, like, all of these things can be true at one time. But I think to your point, Sabrina, like, the talent around the league feels really high and some of these teams have, have a really high concentration level of talent where, like, you know, say Las Vegas, because of some of these losses, falls to the three seed hypothetically, you know, in the postseason and they have to suddenly play Phoenix in the first round. Well, like, Phoenix, even with Chelsea Gray healthy. Like, would it totally shock you if a core team of Kalia Copper, Taurasi, Cloud Griner, Beck Allen and Sophie Cunningham beat the Aces two out of three times? Like, that's not totally shocking by any means. And if any, and you know, even if Las Vegas wins, like, that's a tough matchup and say, then in the next round, Las Vegas has to go up against Seattle or Connecticut, you know, assuming, say in this scenario that New York is a one seed or New York, right. Like, that's a really, really tough matchup and also a series that they could lose. Seattle, we see them, you know, they lost to Minnesota in their most recent Commissioners cup game, but if not, they had won six games in a row right now and were playing really, really well, you know, defensively, but also figured out some of their struggles on the offensive end. And we're playing much better. And obviously that's a team. Neko Gumike, Ezzy Magnagore, who just signed an extension, Skyler Digging Smith, Jewel Lloyd, like, that's a really talented team too. And so like, there are especially, you know, at the top of the league, there are no easy nights. And so that is where I do think, like, there's not a reason to be concerned about the Las Vegas Aces, but at the same time, like, maybe this run does have significant implications for, you know, what September and October looks like and maybe it doesn't. But like the league, the talent in the league is such that it certainly could. It's really good.
- [30:10]
Zena Keda
I absolutely agree with you. It does seem like there's more talent parity across the WNBA and the. The work that teams have done to try to create their own versions of the big threes or just having some sort of a super core that it seemed that as if the Aces had a monopoly on for the last two years, it's like, okay, we're starting to see this spread out a little bit. And you know, I know we were, we were going to talk Caitlin first, but now that we've brought up this parody aspect, I think the, the biggest team that is screaming look at us, do not count us out is Phoenix. Especially now that Griner is coming back or that she is back. Even without Griner, Kalia Copper and the numbers that she was putting up was disrespectful to anyone playing defense. Like, she seems like she is on a mission. There's no talking this year. It is just playing. And it's interesting that you align that level of offensive focus with the Natasha Cloud who did out loud say that she's on a revenge tour for this season and a Diana Taurasi who's about to turn 42, you know, and she's on. She's always going to be about her game and making sure that she shows up. And this whole scheme of Phoenix Mercury offense that's working really well under Nate Tibbets. And then you add back in six, nine, Brittany Yvette Griner. Man, that team is looking like a monstrous, like a monstrous team to be had. Once they get really in the mix of Britney back in the mix, like in their offense, they could look on the level of the Aces. They've got the size, they've got the weapons offensively. They also have the pride defensively. I think Diana Tausi is probably their weakest point defensively, but that's Diana Taurasi. She'll also also give you, you know, 31 points. So make up for it on the other end. So I want to talk a little bit to you, Sabrina, first about Britney coming back into the mix. Not only from the emotional aspect of her finally being back on the court, but also what this could mean for a franchise that's trying to turn things around drastically. What stood out to you looking at that game first from an emotional perspective and everyone on the court inviting Brittany back.
- [32:48]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, it's no secret, like, how much Brittney Griner means to the Phoenix Mercury franchise. Like we saw the year that she was absent. It was the major topic of discussion last year when she came back just how much lighter it was for everybody. She has been part of the team since 2013, right? Like she is the one who brought like the celebrating pride month to the Phoenix Mercury and made that a bigger part of the wnba like family. She is Phoenix, right? Like she and Tarazi are Phoenix. And to see the two of them together. Like, there was this moment when Griner had to put back against Dallas on Sunday and, like, Diana's, like, jumping up, like, as high as she possibly can to give her, like, a chest bump and, like, barely gets to, like, Bee Gees, you know, like, you know, neckline. Just trying to. Trying to jump up with her. But, like, Greiner is, like, the goofiest person wnba. You talk to everybody around the league, and they just love being around her so very much. And so having her on the court, it just obviously, from a basketball perspective, makes things a lot easier, but it just makes things more fun for everybody. On the Mercury, you can tell she just. Her personality means so much and just how sucky that must have been to go through everything she did in 2023 where she wasn't in condition because she spent 10 months in unlawful detainment and has talked about how she ruined her lung capacity with that smoking habit that she developed and was just never in a place to actually compete physically or emotionally in 2023. And to be ready to go this time, right? Like, she finally had the off season off. She was ready to work out, and she went to Team USA camps and, like, got herself in this place. And then on media day, hurts her foot. Like, how does that even happen? So just to be in this place for her, like, again, we'll get to the basketball, but it just. It felt so nice to just watch her play basketball again and, like, for a team that has a meaningful chance of competing. Right. You know, unlike the Mercury, who were kind of playing out the string in 2023, like, it was just a lot of fun to watch. Like, I know player movement's fun and, like, seeing. Seeing people in new spaces, it's a great time. But, like, Diana and BG doing this for a decade plus, like, it's. It's a lot of fun, too.
- [34:42]
Zena Keda
That's cool. That's cool. It does definitely feel like the gang's all back together. We can finally do this. And now you think about the X's and O's of what Brittney Griner provides to Phoenix. Especially now when you think about these offensive weapons that they've loaded their. Their wings with and their. You know, that perimeter game with. And you have a target like Brittany inside. So what did it look like offensively? Did. Did it immediately click or was. Can you tell there's still a little bit of work to be had?
- [35:16]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, Nate Tibbetts has been very clear that, like, he still doesn't know the exact right spots to put Britney in because they are running a very perimeter oriented offense. A lot of five out. Natasha Mack was basically just setting screens on the perimeter for, you know, everybody whenever possible. And that's, that's not BG's game. Right. Like you want to dump the ball into her in the post, you want to make use of that big 6, 9 target inside the paint and collapse defenses. And so it's, it's going to be like a bit of an adjustment. Obviously she's just a different kind of player but I mean from a talent perspective, like she's taking Liz Dixon's minutes and all due respect to Liz Dixon, like that is a massive upgrade for Phoenix Mercury in terms of what, you know, their age able to do. But I mean very first possession of the game against Minnesota on Friday, they throw the ball into BG in the post, Minnesota's forced to double BG, kicks it out, swing to Beck Allen in the corner jumper. Like that's easy open, very efficient way of creating offense. And yeah, maybe it looks a little bit different than what Phoenix was running for the first eight games of the season or 10 games of the season. But like obviously there is a middle ground to be achieved between what BG does very well and what Phoenix had been doing for the first 10 games of the season. And I think, you know, it's only up from here, frankly.
- [36:25]
Zena Keda
Absolutely. And I really curious, you know, what for BG personally her ceiling is or what her goals are for this season other than obviously playing right and just being on the court. But when you've had as decorated of a career as you've had and now you kind of come into this situation where yes, you and Diana are these vets, but now you've kind of got a whole new perspective, a new coach, a new surrounding cast around you. I'm sure they're like, you know, finals are bust too. I still vividly remember what Diana Taurasi did to that door when they lost by nine points to the Aces in the very first game of the season and then the very next week turned around, beat the aces by 10 points. So I think they're, they're rearing up for a finals run and that's what makes the west so fun. But Ben, do you think that this is a team like as you look at what has been Phoenix's downfall in the past and now looking at some of the new things that they've added in a Clea Copper and Natasha Cloud, even you know, their new offensive schemes that they're running, what do you think is going to be their, I don't want to say downfall but like what's a weakness that you think is available for other teams to take advantage of for Phoenix?
- [37:46]
Ben Pickman
Well, yeah, I'm not going to go negative on say it's the full downfall just yet, but I do think like they're, they are going to have to figure out how to work Brittney Griner back in. Like I think it's pretty clear from their first, you know, month of action without her that they want to play four out and that they really did thrive with how having someone like Natasha Mack as the five just kind of working on the perimeter and screening. You look at, you know, this is assist data on PvP stats like the top seven pick and roll combos in the league right now. In terms of assists, you have Sabrina Unescu and Johns guard Big Natasha Cloud and Kalia Kopper. That's guard, guard Jackie Young, Asia Wilson at Dewana Bonner. That's unique because of at Kelsey Plum, Asia Wilson, Skyler Digging Smith Neca and Natasha Cloud, Diana Taurasi. Again, guard, guard like Phoenix has gotten all these assist numbers. They move the ball so well because their guards are screening for each other and playing off of each other so well and suddenly you know, you have to weave back in a five player who demands attention in the post. Right? We saw it, I believe it was at the end of the first overtime against Dallas on Sunday. They basically ran a post up touch for BG at the end of the game and it did not work. The ball like was knocked out of her hand I think, or it was stolen or just like did not let a clean shot attempt off and the game went to double overtime. And I have a hard time believing like if you put Natasha Mack in there just as an example that like that's the kind of set that Nate Tibbets would have drawn up. And that's not to say that like they are worse team because Brittney Griner is on the floor. Because I think like Sabrina, I'm acknowledging that they aren't but that doesn't mean they're not gonna have to like learn how to play a little bit differently without her. I think that was one of the things that, you know, you kind of saw Kalia Kafar joke about or kind of lightly praise BG about in postgame. That BG had 5 assists against the Dallas Wings, you know, which is like that's in most years, in more than half of her seasons, that's actually a season high. And so to do that, you know, yes, it's double overtime, so that's 10 more minutes. But like to do that right away is super, super impressive. Right. Like she might have to be more of a passer out of the post than she's ever been before in her career and there's no reason to suggest she can't do that or can't grow into that role. But that might be her role more this year than just a back to the basket score. Depending on how they want to play and with the pace they want to play at. So that I think is something like we're going to have to figure out and see because this team clearly like is leaning on their guards a lot and we've seen it and there's good reason why. And we've also seen like immediate buy in with to Nate Tibbets and I think like what happened Friday night with Kalia Kopra hitting a game winner, you know, is such a good example of that. Like that shot I think could go such a long way in charting the course of this Phoenix Mercury season. Number one, the play was initially drawn up for Diana and Diana said no, don't run it for me, run it for Ka. Ka makes the shot like everyone's loving car. Well then Diana also looks great as a teammate. Nate Tibbets and the staff looks great because they've drawn up a game winning three point play that helped them pick up a big win. Like all these things matter, cup wins, commissioner's cup win and Brittney Griner's, you know, first game back in action post injury. So like so many positive things going happening on one night. So we'll see what the implications of that and like how that helps chart their course. But like to your question of downfall, they're going to have to figure out how to weave BG back in. Do I think that's a downfall? No, but like a weakness, a point.
- [41:10]
Zena Keda
Of emphasis for them. They'll have to focus on that.
- [41:13]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, yeah. Something they're going to have to figure out because I do think so far like they are figuring out and off to a strong start with how all their perimeter players want to play together.
- [41:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, just real quick. I think the talent infusion is just so important because you know, Phoenix does want to play on the perimeter. They do want to jack up a lot of three. As Nate had said prior to the start of the season, we want to be taking 40 a game which is maybe a little facetious considering There are only 40 minutes in a WNBA game. But that is a Big number. It's just what happens when threes aren't falling. Like there was that game against Connecticut earlier in the season where they shot one of 27 on three pointers. I'm gonna repeat that one of 27 three pointers and it would probably take you 11 guesses to figure out who actually made that one three pointer. But when you are going through shooting slumps like that, it's so great to just have another option to be like, okay, well jump shots are going in. Let's throw the ball into BG and see if we can just make something happen on the interior. Because like Ben said, they're not drawn post ups for Natasha Mack. So just a little bit more diversity on offense I think is going to help, even if it does look a little clunky in terms of the spacing. And maybe those wide open lanes that Kalia Copper was seeing earlier in the season are a little bit different because of the defenders that are attached to bg. But ultimately, I think more talent is always a good problem to have and just introducing new ways for Fenis to succeed is going to be helpful down the line.
- [42:30]
Zena Keda
Well, the west is packed with incredible talent inside particularly. And so I, I'm, when I was asking that question about like, what's their weakness, what's their downfall? I'm, I'm trying to think of these matchups, you know, whether it's Phoenix going up against Seattle, Phoenix going up against the Aces. Especially now with Brittney Griner coming back into the mix. How can teams take advantage of the fact that she isn't all the way integrated yet? How can they make her a non factor, which I feel like that might be something that they'll focus on. But all to say, things are fun in the west right now. There's a lot of things up in the air and it's not as cut and, you know, cut and dry as it is out on the East. But that's enough X's and O's. I got to talk about this article that you wrote, Ben Pickman, because, you know, it's a story, but it's a non story. Okay, it's a story, but it's a non story because when we're talking about this Olympic team, this is one of the hardest Olympic teams to make in the world, folks. Like not just in the US you look across countries, you look across sports, this team is incredibly, tremendously difficult to make just because of the sheer level of talent. And then you add on top the fact that you're not a Swing position. You're not an Alyssa Thomas that could potentially be played as a guard or a forward, etc. You are a set guard. And when I say you are a set, I'm talking about Caitlin Clark and the fact that Caitlin Clark was not on the Olympic roster for the U.S. women's National Team. That was announced over the weekend and lots of people had things to say. Ben, I want to ask you because you wrote this piece for the Athletic and you know, I started this podcast And I mentioned 871comment, first question to you. Have you ever written anything in the course of your career that garnered that.
- [44:43]
Ben Pickman
Much response that Xena is a great question. I do wonder and I don't have the numbers in front of me. I believe our news story on Friday night that broke the news of the Olympic team had like 750. So I'm curious actually to go back and be like, did the column usurped the news story? Because that news story also got a lot of attention. If we're just tracking comments.
- [45:05]
Zena Keda
Sure, sure. No, no, no. But your piece and the part that's important here is that you know, your piece was making an assessment of that decision as opposed to just announcing the news. And in a second I'm going to let you break down, you know, where you ended up on this decision. But I want to ask you first, Sabrina, of the roster, which all of you can look up, you can see exactly who's on it. There were a few names that were in the training camp that did not make the team. A few that stuck out to me because of their relationship to Caitlin Clark was Aaliyah Boston. Aaliyah Boston, folks, did not make that team. This is last year's rookie of the year. This is an incredibly talented post player that performed decently well during camp, but there's not enough spots and she did not make the team yet. No one really cared about that. No one really asked about that. No one really talked about that. There's several players. Erica Gumbawale did not make the team. Kelsey Mitchell did not make the team. There's several players.
- [46:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Ryan Howard, well, she's a 3x3 Olympian, so that's something.
- [46:20]
Zena Keda
She's. Yeah, right. She's going to be on the three by three team, sure. But she's not on the main team, the five by five team. Right. Still amazing. She's going to be an Olympian, folks. Don't worry. But not on that team. So the talent pool, it's deep, folks. And Caitlin Clark did not make this team. Ben, your Assessment of this decision was what?
- [46:46]
Ben Pickman
In short, I thought it was a reasonable decision to leave her off the team. In my column, I kind of outline the kind of difficult decisions that I think the committee was forced to weigh throughout this process. Right. Speaking from a strictly basketball standpoint, I found it really hard to argue with the 12 names that they picked. Right. It's a roster full of MVPs, All WNBA honorees, All Stars. You have nine players with Olympic experience. You have, you know, players that are super familiar playing together. And the continuity part is really, really important here. Right? You have four Las Vegas Aces, three Phoenix Mercury, two people on the Liberty, more than just WNB connections. You have, you know, a roster that is full of players who have been to camp after camp together, who have played in the World cup, who have played in international friendlies. Caitlin Clark, important to all of this not because of her own fault. Like, she did not attend a single senior national team camp because of her college commitments. And so there was no way to judge and gauge just how she would do competing alongside any of the other players on the roster. On this very podcast a couple weeks ago, we had Simone Augustus on the show. She's one of the committee members. And Simone said, like, the chemistry really speeds up the learning curve and the process. And that is something that is kind of a little bit unique to Team USA compared to some of these other teams that have been playing together and have a longer training camp in the lead up to the Olympics. So I think continuity was really, really important, and past precedent of taking, you know, an experienced roster was important. The decision also falls in line with, you know, some of their framework, and it's based on evaluations for the roster based on several factors. Attitude is one. Adaptability to an international game is another likelihood of contributing to team success. One of the factors omitted from the evaluation criteria is popularity. And you can say certainly that, like, you can make the argument that the Olympics are, in theory, an opportunity for global exposure to grow the game. And I do think it's safe to say that, like, more people from around the globe probably would have popped in to watch American women's basketball, basketball, either on TV or in person had Caitlin Clark been there, even if she was just going to sit on the bench. But you have to make some tough choices here, and at the end of the day, they leaned on going for continuity. As I wrote, continuity was favored over chatter. Like, Caitlin Clark has talked this whole time, as there's this discourse around her, all about, like, wanting to stick to basketball, like, there's been such wide ranging discourse on so many topics. And all Caitlin Clark talks about is that her focus is on basketball and that like she said even on Friday, sometimes it stinks, quote, sometimes it stinks that the conversation is outside of basketball, not the product on the floor and how good they are for their teams and how great the season has been? Well, you know, one of the things I wrote was like in this scenario, the committee focused on basketball. Like they picked a team that was had continuity, that knew each other and that they felt was the best 12. And I think if you're looking at it from that way, it's hard to see their decision as unreasonable. I think it's a perfectly reasonable decision that they made to go with the 12 that they did.
- [49:57]
Zena Keda
Now, Sabrina Ben just mentioned one of the biggest argument that was for her making the team, which was the potential of essentially better marketing for the Olympics or this team in the Olympics. It'd be an opportunity for more eyeballs and visibility, et cetera, et cetera. I want you to take that argument and then also, what other arguments did you hear of or did you think of or you know, were part of the discourse that you heard over this? And like what'd you think about these arguments for her making the team?
- [50:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, let's stick with that first one. I mean, the mission of USA Basketball as outlined on their website, USA Basketball is a worldwide leader in the sport through competitive excellence and international competition and by promoting, growing and elevating the game at all levels. So promoting and growing part of the mission statement of USA Basketball. So even if we're saying that they're just doing their job by trying to win a gold medal and putting the best 12 players on the court, part of their mission is also to advance the game of basketball around the world. And you'd be hard pressed to say that anybody but Caitlin Clark would draw more eyeballs to the US national team, even among the incredible athletes they picked. And I want to emphasize that like Akshay Wilson, Brandon Stewart, Alyssa Thomas, top three finishers in the closest MVP race in WNBA history, all on the team. You know, you've got Nafisa Collier, like another old WNBA player. That guard room, you know, from the Las Vegas Aces of Chelsea Gray, Jackie Young, Kelsey filming, there's it's a great team. It's a really, really great team. I know that there was some chatter about, oh, look how close that game was with USA and Belgium back in February. Like, is there a real chance that somebody could upset the United States? Asia Wilson wasn't in that game. Chelsea Grant wasn't in that game. Like, I am willing to bet that USA talent still trumps anything else that they're going to face and they're not going to play 12 players. But that's beside the point. I just can't help but look at this roster and think about how old it is. Like every USA Olympic roster has had a player who was drafted within the last two years. You look at the 96 roster. Rebecca Lobo finished college in 1995 and she comes on the 1996 team when obviously that's a different situation because of like when the WNB was created and whatnot. But like Diana Taurasi finishes college in 2004 on the Olympic team in 20042008 Candice Parker finishes college on the Olympic team 2012 Maya Moore was graduate in 2011. Tina Charles 2010 both of them on the Olympic team in 2012. 2016 you've got Brianna Stewart coming off of her UConn career immediately on the Olympic team. 2021 is a little bit different because it was delayed a year, but 2019 rookie of the Year Navisa Collier on that Olympic team in 2021. A lot of those players didn't really play at all during those Olympic runs, but they got the experience of being a part of Team usa, ingratiating themselves into that culture and then knowing how to lead the next time around. Like Nafisa Collier has talked about how important that experience was for her, even though she didn't really get off the bench at all in Tokyo, just knowing what it means to be a steward of USA Basketball. And now she's going to be one of the leaders of the team in 2024. And it's not like they were just putting those players on the roster because there was nobody else to fill their space. Like Brianna Stewart comes in in 2016 at the expense of Candace Parker. Nafisa Collier comes in 2021 at the expense of Nako Gumake. Like there are real veterans who put in their sweat equity with USA Basketball and were denied an opportunity to represent their country at the Olympics because a younger player came in and took that spot. So it is within the framework of USA Basketball's decision making that they have taken a young player to carry on the torch and represent the team and know what that culture is going forward. Obviously, terribly tough decision to make. But yeah, these are the 12 best players probably that you could represent the United States with. But that isn't how the team has always been created. So I Was just very surprised. Like, like you mentioned, Aaliyah Boston, not on this team. Tough start to her 2024 WNBA season, I'm sure, factors into that. And it's just the timing of how the USA makes the decisions. Like, sometimes they announce their roster in April and then just let it sit until the Olympics. Sometimes they announce a roster closer to the Olympics when they have this body of work during the WNBA season to inform that evidence. There's just not a consistency with priorities is what I'm trying to say. And I realize it's a new selection committee this time around. Like, the program has been revamped since Carol Cowan left. I was just confused by how old it was. And I'm not saying that Caitlin Clark, like, deserved to be on the team by any means. I just think if you're looking at this particular moment in women's basketball, there was a very strong argument for including her because of all of the history of the program and what it purportedly aims to achieve.
- [54:23]
Zena Keda
And Caitlin took this decision pretty well. She was not offended. She did tell her coach that, you know, it's motivation. It, you know, quote, woke a monster up. You know, woke up something essentially for her to show up in the WNBA season in a different way. But she took it well and understood the decision. I'm curious that the people in the 871 comments. Ben did not take it so well. And so I want to talk a little bit about what the projection is. Like, right? Like, maybe not this Olympics. Can Caitlyn make it. Clearly the team is set. But in the next four years, who else is coming into that mix? There's obviously, there's Paige Beckers that will be in that mix. There's Fajee Johnson that will be in that mix. There'll be Haley Van Lith, all these guards coming from the college game that have also been in the Team USA circuit getting into the mix and being able to be considered, you know, do you have any doubt that Caitlin makes the next Olympic team?
- [55:29]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I think it's very likely she makes the next Olympic team. I would also say, like, of course there's still a possibility. We should acknowledge that she is a part of this Olympic team. That if someone gets injured, like, she could be an injury replacement in the next month. That, you know, Chelsea Gray right now has not participated in any games this season. If for some reason she cannot participate in the Olympics, would it shock me if Caitlin Clark was chosen? Absolutely not. Right. So, like, I'm not even fully closing the book this year either. I Mean, you're right, like, there is so much young talent. And I do think, like, I think Sabrina makes a really compelling case when she, you know, harkens on the age and kind of team building aspect of, like, this team being very much built for the present. Their youngest player is 26 years old, Sabrina Unescu. The thing I would say is, like, in four years, the US has such talent, a part of it that who's to say they won't again be favored even if they built their team four years from now in Los Angeles for four years from now. And, like, didn't build for an eye for the future and basically spent three years, you know, in the lead up to the 2028 Games focusing on LA and LA alone and not looking at Brisbane in 2032. And, you know, that is in some respects a strategy that the U.S. men's team has kind of operated on in some years. And it did come back to bite them a little bit. Right? People look at, you know, the 2004 Olympic team, which is one that the US men's team did not win gold in, as an example of a team that was kind of built for the present and struggled in the present and did not win a gold medal. And so, you know, similar in some respects. The US Men sometimes goes with some younger players to try and look for the future. The US Women, in this case, they didn't necessarily do that. Though I would say Kelsey Plumb, Jackie Young, Sabrina Unescu, Asia Wilson. Like, those are all players in AFISA Collier. I would expect to be probably Stewie. Like, those are players I would expect to be on the team in four years. It's just very, very hard to leapfrog it if you're looking for other names. You know, Shakira Austin, someone in the system, Aaliyah Boston, Caitlin Clark. We'll see. You know, Ryan Howard, someone from the 3x3, going up to the 5 on 5. That's something that we saw, you know, someone like Jackie Young and Kelsey Plumb do from the last Olympics to this one. So I think those are some names to watch. One thing I would say just to, like, put it out, and this doesn't directly answer your question, is there's a lot of people commenting about, like, this team versus the 1992 men's dream team and how, like, Christian Laettner made that team. And we should say that, you know, that team as getting the NBA players to take part in the Olympics. It was clear from the start they were going to have a collegiate among them. You know, Going back through Jack McCallum's famous dream dream Team book, there were initial ideas that collegiates would have equal representation as NBA players. But eventually it was decided upon. They would have just one. Like it's not the same scenario between 1992 and this US women's team in 2024. They're not exactly an apples to apples comparison. And also Caitlin Clark of course right now is not a college player. She is a professional player. So they're not the same. I do understand the team building aspect of like wanting to pick a younger player and building towards the future. But clearly Team USA is saying that we have enough talent to always kind of keep a loose eye and sometimes it's broader and sometimes it's more lasered in eye towards the future and sometimes it is, you know, takes the form of this roster and sometimes it takes, you know, adding a younger player in the future. I don't know what, what you all think of that. I see some interesting looks on this, on this zoom right now.
- [59:09]
Zena Keda
No one I didn't know that about the, the 1992 men's team and I am happy that you mentioned that because that is something I've, I've seen repeatedly as well. If they did that, why can't they do it this time? And. But I absolutely think that the USA like women's side of the selection committee is like, we're good, we're always going to have a deep pool of talent. We don't need to be ultimately cultivating talent early one the WNBA is helping us do that and also the talent in the NCAA is doing that. And what I really, really love is what you had mentioned as well is just like there is a system. I'm expecting Cameron Brink, who made the 3x3 team to potentially be a talent, a post talent, especially as a Brittney Griner maybe steps down to start filling in some of the post, you know, channel that's going to open up. I love that they do create a kind of a developing ecosystem of which they know these players, they're watching these players, they're keeping them, you know, not necessarily, I was going to say on roster, on call, but they're keeping them within their ecosystem of players that could potentially be a part of this team. And I also appreciate that you said that the door isn't necessarily closed on Caitlyn Clark. She could be called up. So I agree with you. I think that there's enough talent right now. There's also not only enough talent, there's enough talent that has Camaraderie right now to perform well in Paris and that they don't have to bring in, you know, younger talent or start developing the next 2028 team already because they feel good about the roster they have now. So this is actually really good context and visibility into the situation because for me, the story was a non story because Caitlyn's okay, right? Like, Caitlyn accepted the decision. She's motivated by it. She's gonna be an even better player and especially, you know, ready if she gets called up this time around or next time around. She's motivated to come in and play well. And that's why I felt like such a non story as opposed to make everyone making it seem as if it was personal and that there was, you know, people on the roster right now. This is things that I've read and seen that people are on the roster right now blackballing Caitlin Clark for making the Team USA team. And it's like, no, no, no, that's not a story. That is not a thing. I think we really, truly have to take a step back and look at who it is that they're evaluating to be a part of this team. This is really, really great context and I, I'm excited for Caitlin Clark's turn whenever it is her turn to be on this team. And I will say this LA 2028, after everything that's happened with Caitlin, you know who's on my mind of who could potentially not make that team and all hell could break loose in la. There's a girl named juju Watkins, folks. She's currently playing in la and she will be eligible. She will be eligible to potentially be a fresh out of college player on this team. Let's learn our lesson now, okay? Let's just be prepared, all right, four years in advance, that there is a lot of talent going through the system of Team usa and if juju doesn't make it, it'll be okay. She'll probably use it as motivation too, but you never know. You never, never ever know. Now that's super helpful, Ben, with your article. I want to give you the last word on this for everyone that read it and has some thoughts.
- [62:48]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I would just kind of make one more call. And I wrote this in my column as well, is there's a lot of people, and some of this is true, are talking about the kind of marketability and the golden opportunity that USA Basketball had to blow up women's basketball in epic proportions by putting Caitlin Clark on that team. And like all the different discussions that would have started. And we know certainly from college and even this WNBA season, like, Caitlin Clark is a ratings magnet. And, you know, ratings have gone up in all these games she's played. And so many people are tuning into games that maybe didn't before and learning about, you know, Alyssa Thomas and how good Kelsey Plum is and how good the Seattle Storm is and, you know, the New York Liberty and Brianna Stewart and all these different storylines because they've tuned in to watch Indiana Fever games. And I guess my call to all these casual fans who are, you know, tuning in right now and outraged over this decision is even with Caitlin Clark not on the team, tune in and watch the USA Women's basketball team. Like, journalists who are there just because Caitlin Clark isn't there. Go to Lielle, like, go to Paris, the sights of the first and the final eventually. And go watch Asia Wilson. Go watch Brianna Stewart. Go watch at see Kalia Kopra, the finals mvp. Go watch as Diana Taurasi's playing for a six gold medal. Like, there are plenty of stories and reasons to tune in. And just like, just because Caitlin Clark is not on the team, like, that is not a good enough reason not to cover the team. So that would be my call to action to all those people is still care. Like, you should still care. There is plenty. There are plenty of other reasons to watch and plenty of other stories to dive into. I know we'll be covering some of them here on this podcast@theathletic.com so please continue to follow along in our coverage, but please continue to watch more broadly, even with Clark not there.
- [64:46]
Zena Keda
That is a beautiful ending to this show. It's a wonderful call to action, and it's an also an opportunity for not only the journalists and the fans that, you know, Ben's talking to. If you're someone that said, I'm not watching now that Caitlyn's not on the team, ask yourself why. And also ask yourself, do you really love basketball or do you just love one player? Because that's the difference we're talking about here. There's still gonna be amazing basketball to be had, to be played, to be consumed and to cheer on. All right, folks, I appreciate that call to action Ben, and I'll give you a few more as we close out the show. I appreciate you guys tuning in today. Of course, as always, we want to have these conversations. I love that we got to do X's and O's a little bit more and then also talk about this really important story with. With Caitlin Clark. In the Olympics. Hit that subscribe button on this podcast because that's what we do. We have these conversations, we give you some insight, we teach you things like hey, the black and white ball, it's for the Commissioner cup games, which I'm sure you're going to be setting your screens to this week because there's a few coming up that you'll be really excited, excited about. But also beyond doing that. Leave us Comments subscribe and leave us comments. Read the articles, subscribe, Read the articles and leave comments. There be a part of the 871 folks. We want to hear from you. For now, I'm Zena Kada on behalf of Ben Sabrina, thanking you for your ear, encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game. Because that's the only way we're going to keep growing it. Alright guys, until next time.
- [66:41]
Ben Pickman
As we.
- [66:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls.
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Sabrina Merchant
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You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your.
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Learn more at discover.com creditcard this podcast.
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