← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Texas' Vic Schaefer and Rori Harmon on Award Surprises, Tournament Play, and Baseball Umpiring
00:45:51
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- [00:00]
Vic Schaefer
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- [01:33]
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- [05:09]
Zena Kaida
For the athletic I'm Zena Kaida and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to another special edition of the Athletic All Access where we tap in with influential voices around the world of women's hoops. Before we dive in, I gotta do my job and make sure you're subscribed because this show is gonna continue having these Amazing conversations and you don't wanna miss out on them on today's episode. Ben and Chantel welcome in the University of Texas, the recent co champions of the sec. In their very first year in the Southeastern Conference, Texas women's basketball went 15 and 1, ending up sharing the crown with the University of South Carolina and having to coin flip for the number one or number two seed in the SEC tournament. Now, they did not win that coin flip. They ended up getting the number two seed, but they did win some individual honors, including two people that are going to be joining us today. Coach Vic Schaefer earned SEC Coach of the Year in his first year. There something that he's repeated because he got the coach of the year in the Big 12 as well back in 2023. And then Rory Harmon, the SEC Defensive Player of the Year, which is crazy considering she had to come back and overcome her ACL tear to get back on the court and continue her crown that she earned in the Big 12 as a defensive Player of the year now getting it in the sec. Very exc to have this conversation ahead of the SEC tournament and of course, the big dance where Texas is expected to show out. So Chantel, Ben, y'all take it away.
- [06:58]
Ben
Welcome, Rory and Vic to the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Great to have you.
- [07:01]
Vic Schaefer
Thanks for having us.
- [07:02]
Ben
Vic, we wanted to start with you. You know, we're taping this a few days after the Oscars this past weekend. And you guys, Texas on your social media channels, have put out some videos announcing some awards. So one of them, you surprised one of your stars, Madison Booker, with the SEC Player of the Year. So my first question to you is one, how would you evaluate your own acting performance in your ability to surprise her? And then just what was it like to surprise her with that honor?
- [07:31]
Vic Schaefer
Yeah, I'm going to have to give myself a pretty good grade for the acting piece. I got her. You know, we talk, we say, you know, all the time. You know, I've had to say it because my kids have gotten me before. We say I got got. I got. She got got. I got her. But it was, I got got early this morning, too. I told me I was going to be live On Fox Sports, Fox 7 here locally. And so, man, I fought the traffic, got up early, was still late. And when I got here, they told me I was, you know, they went to get a battery out of the truck for the camera. And then next thing I know, I had a coach in here going, hey, coach, administration's here. They want to see you in the conference room. I'm like, good God, what's happened now? I mean, you know, last time I went to bed last night, everything was fine. And I walk in there and. And then they, they. They all were in there to tell me. Actually, my AD gets on the phone on FaceTime, and he starts out with this big spiel about accountability and behavior. And I'm like, man, dude, you got the wrong guy. Like, I've done nothing but live in my office. I sleep up here. I'm. I'm invested in my team. My team's invested in what we're doing. Like, we have not done anything wrong. And then before I could finally stop him, he said, hey, just want you to know you're going to be coach of the year in about 15 minutes. And so they got me this morning. So it's a day of getting got. So pretty. Pretty special day for sure.
- [09:06]
Rory Harmon
Rory. Coach just said that the players have got him a few times before. In your. In your years at Texas, have you ever got Coach Schaefer?
- [09:14]
Yeah, he was Big 12 coach of the year, too. He's just stacking up, of course, exactly what I expected. But I remember we did it after one of our games, and I was like, actually the one to stand up and sit in the locker room.
- [09:31]
Vic Schaefer
That's right.
- [09:31]
Rory Harmon
Looking around, kind of like, okay. And I was like, you know, basically, the way that it just happened today, almost deja vu. But he was surprised, obviously. Super happy. And, I mean, he's always got to be humble about those situations, but it's well deserved. And so it was. It's always fun to get coach or to get him to get got. So, yeah, it was cool.
- [09:55]
Vic, you brought up your SEC Coach of the Year honors, and I was really curious for yours.
- [09:59]
Vic Schaefer
You brought it up, I didn't.
- [10:01]
Rory Harmon
Oh, sorry. You told the story behind it about how you got got. But I'm curious for your opinion because earlier Podcast, the writers at the athletics sort of debated, you know, what makes a Coach of the Year nationally. And, like, it feels like one of those awards where the criteria can be so diverse and so different, and it's very much sort of in the eye of the voter and the beholder. Right. But you as a coach, as someone who's won this award in multiple conferences, as someone who's dedicated your life to this profession. And Rory, I'd be curious for you, too. What sort of distinguishes someone to be a Coach of the Year to have an honor like that? What makes a good coach or a good enough coach to Win something like that in your eyes.
- [10:42]
Vic Schaefer
Go ahead, Rory, and then I'll follow.
- [10:44]
Rory Harmon
Okay. Well, honestly, I'm always going to be rooting for Coach Schaefer. There's no other coach in my mind that will deserve that award. But honestly, I just think playing the games that we played, the adversity and whatnot, like you said, there's like, a wide range. A lot of teams have been through things. A lot of teams have won tough games and whatnot. But honestly, I'm biased about that because this is my coach, and I'm in the locker room. I'm in the games. I'm. I'm in practice with him every day. So just. It's truly just like we have been on a run right now. We've been on the run lately. We're winning games, like, coming back from being down certain numbers and whatnot. We've stayed humbled. We stayed hungry. And, you know, like I said, I'm pretty biased about the situation. And Coach Schaefer's, in my mind, the only person that deserves this award, so. And he got it.
- [11:42]
Vic Schaefer
You know, for me, it's real easy, is great players and a great staff, and I feel like I've got great players and I've got the best assistant coaches in the country. And when you combine that, this is what happens. I mean, it's really a simple formula in my mind. And so, you know, we've been really fortunate, both at Mississippi State and here at Texas. We've had really good players. And then I've always. I'm smart enough to know y'all. I can't do it by myself. And you got to hire good people, and then you got to let them work. And I think Rory will attest, our. Our staff is really good. They're always available for our players. They spend countless hours with them. They're available on and off the floor for them. And so to me, that's what it means. To me, it's. You know, I'm really honored. I'm humbled that my peers in the conference, you know, voted that. But to me, it's all about the players. I mean, I've got an unbelievable group of young ladies. They are. God's blessed me with an unbelievable group. It's just a great team. They're tough. You know, we. We. We talk about that a lot, but they know I don't like throwing that word around unless we own it. And they own it. This team is tough. They're mentally tough. They're physically tough. And then my staff is just they're off the chart. And I've had some great staff, y'all, over the course of my career. That's why I've had the career I've had. Again, I'm smart enough to know I can't do it by myself, but this staff I have right now, the attention to detail. Rory will tell you, no stone goes unturned when we get ready to play somebody. And they're that good in recruiting as.
- [13:38]
Ben
Well, you know, you mentioned no stone unturned, obviously. 29 and 2 entering the SEC tournament. 15 and 1 in conference in your first year. You know, when we chatted a few weeks ago, Vic, you kind of made a comment to me that it's hard to be an SEC team if you don't look like one. That, like, if you. When you get off the bus, you better look like an SEC team. Obviously, you guys are now part of the sec, but has that philosophy kind of always stuck with you from, you know, your time at Mississippi State, even through the Big 12? So that, you know, this adjustment period this year might have been a little bit easier joining the conference because, like, you've always had some of those principles that lend themselves to success in this conference. You're now in.
- [14:22]
Vic Schaefer
No question, our team, you know, we recruited this team. We've recruited teams in the past here at Texas, and they've been built, to me like an SEC team. And so when we moved from the Big 12 to the SEC, to me, it was from a physical stature and a skill set. We were ready. You know, we didn't have to all of a sudden change what we were doing and how we were doing it. And so I think, you know, again, it's. It's such a tough, physical, aggressive league. If you don't have the physical capability to withstand that, man, it's going to be really hard. And finesse just doesn't really fit this league very well. And, you know, it is what it is. But again, I think that's. That's the value. That's what this league's all about. From the players that play in it to the coaches that coach in it. There are some incredible, talented, skilled players and coaches, and you're going against them every night, and there ain't no off night. You know, if you go on the road in this league and you ain't ready to play, you won't get beat. You'll get embarrassed.
- [15:45]
Rory Harmon
Vic, I feel like one of the players, you know, who we've already talked about kind of has a lot of those attributes that you Were talking about that physicality, but also the finesse, a ton of skill. Madison, obviously, is someone as a sophomore, she's been able to shift back into her. Her more natural role with Rory coming back to the point guard position. But I was really curious because I talked with Jenny Baranchic ahead of the season, and she's someone who obviously coached against Madison as a freshman, coaches against her now in the sec, as you both came into the SEC together. And she said, ahead of the season, she said, you know, I ran into Madison SEC media days, and man, she looks good. Like, she looks really good. She, like, really bought into Texas's strength and conditioning program this offseason, I think. And so I think there's that element which we've all seen on, on the screen and on the floor, but also just her moving back into her role. What have you seen from her this year and how she has grown? And Rory, same thing to you. She was playing in your position last year. Now she's back sort of in her more natural position with you at the point guard. What have you seen from Madison's growth over the last year?
- [16:48]
Vic Schaefer
Well, again, for me, and Rory will tell you, it's so good to have both of them because they both create for each other, and I can move either one of them over on the wing and have either one of them run the point. We have a package in for Madison at the point, and then obviously Rory can run just about everything. Madison can, too. But we have a specific package for her at point. And I think what's fun, I think Rory will say it, too. Rory doesn't have to be always be the outlet on the break. Rory can get out and run the lane, and Madison can be the outlet. I've even, you know, been able to throw Preston in a little bit and play all three of them together and. But I just think Madison's versatility is what makes her so unique. And truly in my mind, you know, the best player in the country. She just. She's efficient. She's not a volume kid. She don't need a ton of shots to score all those points. She is very efficient. But again, you're talking about a kid that's got a point guard iq, a point guard mentality. She sees the floor. And so when I got her and Rory out there, it's just a unique feeling as a coach to have those two out there. Rory being a senior and has seen anything and everything that can possibly be thrown at her. Booker obviously grew up so fast last year and had an Unbelievable season. And Rory gets a lot of credit for that because Rory spent a lot of time with her, talking to her, explaining to her the role she had to play. And, you know, both of these young ladies are just. They're so unique and so special and it's really uncommon to have two players like them, you know, on a team. And so again, I think that's, you know, one of the reasons why we're where we are right now is because of, of those two. But I think both of them create for each other. Somebody's got to put a best player on one of them, and a lot of people don't have a second best defender, you know, to put on the other. And so it really is a problem some nights for some teams. So again, you got two point guards out there that see the floor, that engage and involve everybody. It's just really unique.
- [19:16]
Rory Harmon
I want to take a step back now just in your story, specifically, because while doing research for this podcast, I realized you and I have something quite big in common, which is that we both went to college as pre med students before. We both did very poorly in pre med and found another path that maybe better suited us. For me, it was cellular and molecular biology that broke me. I couldn't comprehend mitochondria. And I tried to explain this to the teacher and the teacher was like, I think you need to maybe consider another path if mitochondria is your breaking point. For you, what was the breaking point of pre med? That I know you ultimately studied kinesiology and got into coaching, but what in pre med broke you?
- [19:59]
Vic Schaefer
I'm quite embarrassed.
- [20:01]
Rory Harmon
Hey, I should be embarrassed. Mitochondria are a real thing. I'm not a flat earther by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't believe in mitochondria.
- [20:09]
Vic Schaefer
Well, I'm embarrassed because it was just basic anatomy and physiology and biology. I mean, I think I took anatomy and physiology three times and I had to have it for kinesiology, you know, and I think I took it three times before I finally passed it. I hate to say it, but I think I made a D, but I was glad to get that D. C's.
- [20:35]
Rory Harmon
And D's get degrees.
- [20:37]
Vic Schaefer
Yeah. And, you know, in junior college, you know, I played for two years, ran out of ability really quick, but I took college algebra, made a C and was glad to get it. And when I went to A and M to get my undergrad, I really thought I was going to be a government major. I made two A's in it in junior college. So I thought, hey, I'm going to be a government major. Well, I go to the orientation, and the first words out of that Lady's mouth is 24 hours of math. I was out the door before she could put a period on that sentence, because again, I'm smart enough to know eight classes of math, and I had just made a C in college out of her in junior college. There wasn't any way on God's green earth I was going to be able to do the math piece. And then, as you know, in. If you're going to be a doctor, you got to have pretty extensive knowledge in math, too, so. Yeah, but the. The general biology, the general anatomy and physiology, it just wasn't a fit for me. And, you know, we all find our path. It take me a while to kind of find my way. You know, back in my day, y'all, I'm not. They did the test to see if you have a learning disability or if you're ADHD or whatever, you know, that wasn't a thing, you know, for me. I had to learn to rewrite my notes, and when I did that, I was good. But it took me four years to figure that out. To this day, you can hand me a scouting report, my staff can hand that to me, but unless I write it, unless I watch the film and I write down the plays, I don't recall it. But if I see it and I write them down, I can go out there without the paper and put my players where they need to be. That's just a. It's a learning thing for me. It's just the only way it really sticks. So that's consequently why I watch a lot of film, Rory. I'll tell you, I sleep up here during the season, you know, three, four nights a week. But it's just what's necessary.
- [22:40]
Ben
You mentioned that you ran out of ability, I think was the phrase you used it when. During your time at Alvin, I guess. Can you just say a little bit more about your game? Can you give us the self scout on Vic Schaefer, the player at that time?
- [22:52]
Vic Schaefer
Well, you know, when you're in high school and you're all state and three different sports, you think you're the cat's meow. And then I go in there and Danny Simmons is from Galveston ball. He's about Rory size, and he can run circles around me. And he was so quick, so fast, so athletic, handled the ball extremely well. And Danny and I became great friends in junior college, but I knew he was way better than Me, you know, But I had to go against him every day, and I got better. But even as a player, like, for me to get a half a step of quickness, like, I had to really watch my weight. Not that I was overweight. I just had to almost be skinny. Skinny to get that half a step. But that was junior college when we had 17 guys on the team, you know, my junior college coach, who to this day stays in touch with me and is, you know, he's such a great man, but back then, I thought he was the devil himself. He was on my butt every day, all day. I couldn't do anything right, but that's how he made me better, you know, he wouldn't allow me to not reach my full potential, even though my full potential in junior college still wasn't going to beat out Danny Simmons.
- [24:08]
Ben
Rory, when you were going through, I don't know, the recruiting process or over years at Texas, did you ever ask Coach Schaefer about those stories, or does he ever talk about his days as a young athlete like this or what is your impression of hearing it, if so, or if not?
- [24:23]
Rory Harmon
Yeah, no, that was a long time ago. If you asked me, he's mentioned. Not. We mentioned it, obviously, throughout the years while I've been here, but I don't think he. I thought that's a story. That's a long time ago for me to remember if you mentioned it during my recruiting process. But I know I remember the story about him being in high school and having his teammate who was about the size of me and being that point guard. But, yeah, hearing some of these stories are just, like, they're quite interesting because, you know, as players, you kind of see your coaches, like, they only have that one life. Like, yeah, you've been a coach your whole life. Like, knowing. Knowing he hasn't been a coach his whole life. But. But when he comes out with these stories of him, like, playing and then, you know, when he was younger, it's just like. It's just so funny and interesting because it's like, well, I just. I don't even see you as anything but you being my coach right now. Like, you know, those stories are always fun and interesting to hear. You get to know more about, you know, you get to know more about your coach, and it's always fun.
- [25:30]
Vic Schaefer
So, yeah, Rory's still waiting to come on her official visit. Her and Aaliyah Moore. We were in Covid. You couldn't have anybody on campus. You couldn't have any official visits. So they remind me all the time. Hey, Coach, you know, we want to be put up at the Four Seasons down on the. On the lake and dinner bought and, you know, hang out all weekend. And I'm, you know, because they never got to do that. You know, those two committed to me over Zoom, you know, and then obviously signed with us, and so they're really special. That was that first class that was really critical to getting this thing turned around. And those two will always be very special to us here at Texas.
- [26:17]
Rory Harmon
I mean, Vic, I'm on Team Rory here. I feel like they deserve an official visit. They deserve the Four Seasons.
- [26:22]
Vic Schaefer
Oh, yeah. Well, there's going to be a day it just ain't today. Let's just leave it like that.
- [26:27]
Rory Harmon
Yeah, you've got a few things you got to do over the next month, I'd say. Rory, I'm curious. You know, Vic, as sports writers, like, we. We enjoy chatting with coaches who are good storytellers, and Vic is, you know, one of one in that way. Like you. You always get a good story when you talk to Vic, and there's a few coaches in that category. But like you were saying, you're used to him as sort of this. He's your basketball coach. And it must be like when you're in first grade and you see your teacher at the grocery store and you're like, what, you. You exist outside of school.
- [26:54]
Yeah.
- [26:55]
Is he a storyteller with you guys as a team at halftime, are you guys, like, looking at the clock like, coach, we gotta get back out there to start shooting a little bit?
- [27:02]
Yeah, he's quite the storyteller, but it's good because he's good at telling the stories, you know? You know, there's some people that could just be talking and going, and you're like, all right, where's this going? Like, with him? You want to know where it's going? Like, where is the story going? So it's always enlightening, and it always has a message and a lesson behind it, and sometimes it's just to make us laugh. And so I think he knows when to tell what kind of story at any time. So, yeah, that was a great analogy of, like, seeing your elementary school teacher at, like, a grocery store. Like, you're like, wow, you. Like, this is you. Like you have another life. So. Yeah, it's almost like that, pretty much.
- [27:40]
Well, Rory, we've had a chance to dig a little bit into Vic's past, obviously with his heralded playing days and his pre med days. But I'm curious for you when we look back at the last four years at Texas, like Vic said, you guys, you and Aaliyah were a part of this. This group that really helped right the ship in Austin and get you guys to where you are right now. This Texas team right now is the number one defense in the SEC. Gives up fewer than 56 points a game. In the power conferences, you guys are the best at holding at point defense. Teams make fewer than four against you. The best passing defense teams have fewer than 10 assists against you guys. We've talked before, Rory, you and I, about what defensive practices specifically are like at Texas. I'm curious when you got there, obviously, without. Without an official visit, let's say. And so you get there to the gym for the first time, and you're running through these practices as a freshman. What was it like when. When Vic walks into the gym and sort of lays out what these practices are going to look like to get in, you know, Texas shape, to play the way you're going to play, to be able to be that elite on defense specifically.
- [28:47]
I just remember my first individual session in the summer. Like, I will never forget that day. I know it was a long time ago, but I will never forget it. We had our individual summer session, so it was about, like, 45 minutes to an hour. And I remember calling my mom after and saying, like, I literally almost died. Like, I thought I trained with my dad two hours a day. Like, I'm gonna be in shape. Like, I will be fine and get through this. No, I remember, like, there wasn't any. There wasn't any time for water breaks. I just remember, like, almost feeling like I was going to, like, pass out. And, you know, when it's your first time working out, you don't want anybody to see you at your weakest moments. So you're like, yeah, we're good. Yeah, clapping it up, looking at everyone like. And really, I felt like, oh, my God. Like, that was not a good feeling at. But honestly, that was definitely my welcome to college basketball moment. But I knew what I was coming into. You know, I knew I chose to come play for him for those reasons of, like, he loves to play defense. He is passionate about defense. And truly, that's, like, what I grew up on. And I wasn't quite expecting to feel that way my first workout, but obviously, time went on. My body was built for that. Well, it really wasn't, thanks to Zach. He put me in really great situations to, you know, not be 130 talents anymore. But I think just the way we went about things. And just like the defensive efforts every day, like, we're not wasting time. Like, of course we work on offense. Of course that's how you rally up points. But like you said, like, holding teams underneath this number or running them off the three point line and even like limiting their assists. That plays a lot into why we're so successful now.
- [30:33]
Vic Schaefer
I can't believe she forgot about the ice cream and the watermelon that we would have during the middle of workouts. Like, I. I'm really shocked that she doesn't recall.
- [30:45]
Rory Harmon
Must be. Yeah, I must forgot that one, too.
- [30:49]
Rory, you must have not been in those practices. Maybe those were the post practices.
- [30:53]
I must have been in class or something. Yeah.
- [30:56]
Ben
Vic, is it a point of. I don't know if pride is the right word, but, I mean, when a player gets to be a senior, do they all have stories like that, that you sit back and you kind of smile and you joke when you listen to them retell their. Their first summer or their first practices? Is every practice like that? Does every player who sticks with you this long have those stories or.
- [31:16]
Vic Schaefer
Well, I think again, it's. They. They recall these things and they're proud of themselves because typically here at Texas, we've been here five years, and this is our fourth championship. You know, they hadn't won a conference championship here since 2003, and we've won either a regular season or a conference tournament championship. Now, four years. You know, winning's hard, y'all. It really is funny because, you know, we make light of it and I'm fine with it, and I love my kids to tell these stories, but winning is hard. Like, you just don't show up and have Kumbaya for an hour and walk out and go home and eat bonbons and drink coffee and say, oh, yeah, we're going to be 29 and 2. Or we're going to go 33 and 5 and have lost, you know, our starting point guard and going into the year, top two players. Like, it just doesn't happen that way, y'all. And I get this from in recruiting all the time. People love to bring this stuff up, you know, and they like to use it against us. You know what? That's why we're beating those teams. You know, I go against the same coaches all the time, and they love to bring it up. Well, that's why you're O and six against us. Winning's hard, y'all. And you know what? People think it's easy until it isn't. And Then when it didn't, people realize, oh, well, you know, maybe we had it right. We shouldn't let whatever happened happened to where it is now. So I just think for my kids, especially that have played for me, they look back, and it's what allows them to go on and be successful in life. I mean, y'all know, I think the real world's a great place, but every now and then, the real world can rear its ugly head. And on those days, my kids are going to thrive. On those days, when the world rears its ugly head, my kids are going to thrive. They're going to be able to handle that. It's not going to be bad at all. Again, Rory will tell you I want our practices to be more demanding than a game so that when the lights come on and it's game time, man, let's go. This is what it's all about. It's easy. So I know everybody does it a different way, and I haven't, you know, I'm not here to tell you one way or the other. I can tell you the times I've sat in staff meetings and gone, well, you know, maybe we need to change and we need to do it this way, and maybe we don't need to do that. Kids are different. And my staff will look at me and go, are you crazy? Like, why would you change? The proof is in the pudding. And. And so sometimes, you know, I got a text message today from a friend of mine that's a men's coach in the sec, and he said, your teams are always built for this time of year. Do not change who you are. And I always feel like my teams get better, even in March. A lot of coaches and teams, whatever they got in February, that's what they got. They cut practices back to 45 minutes, and that's it. And you can't get better in 45 minutes, I hate to tell you. And so for us, we just keep working. Like, I coaching Rory Harmon as hard today as I coached her when she was a freshman, I am. She deserves that, and she wants that. That's why she's here. And again, I give them credit. They let me coach them, and we don't apologize for being demanding. It takes what it takes, y'all. You know, I don't have to be their life, but they are my life. And that's, you know, that's it in a nutshell. I get it, you know, I don't have to be theirs, but they are my life. I am all in with them. And, you Know, again, I'm not here for me. I'm here for them. Like, that's just it. That's who I am. That's why I've chosen to do what I do for 40 years. And I love it. You know, I love these kids. But winning's hard, y'all. Winning in the Southeastern Conference is really hard.
- [35:22]
Rory Harmon
Rory, you've been nodding your head as. As he sort of repeated, winning is hard. And at Texas, you've done a lot of that. You've done a lot of winning. You've won both regular season and tournament conference championships. What are sort of the particular challenges of winning a regular season conference championship? You've got the whole season. You've got to stay focused for months. But then you get into a conference tournament, and this weekend, if you guys can get to the championship, you'll play three games in 44 hours, which feels almost like an AAU tournament. Like, you're back in sort of those, like, EYBL high school days where it's like, everything's sort of compact. What are sort of the unique challenges of both of those in terms of recovery and focus? They feel both challenging, but in different ways.
- [36:03]
Yeah, I mean, if you compare it to au, those were the fun days. So it's about to be fun. You know, like he said, we. We are separating ourselves because we. We did our work early, Basically, we're out on the track 6am we're doing all these things to, like, get to this point where we can play those three games and possibly three games in 44 hours. So we always kind of make a joke about it, but it's not really a joke because actually, it truly does feel that way. But sometimes when there's games that come, we may go into overtime or we'll say, like, we could play that team again, like, tomorrow. Like, we feel okay. We can get through it. We have prepared. Our practices have prepared us. Like he said, the practices are going to be a little bit more demanding than the game. So when the game comes, it's easy. So, I mean, this being my fourth year, my. My fourth season, like, it does feel easy. I know I did just come off an injury and whatnot, but even. Even now, like, I'm. I'm fine. We can get through this. The recovery piece, though, like, obviously, we're going to be smart about what we do and what we go through, but we still have to prepare. We still have to prepare to win. We're here to win. And, I mean, we won that conference with. I don't know how Many games we were in the conference, but it's a lot more than three games. So we're capable of doing this. And I trust. I put all my trust and effort and everything, and obviously, I trust our coaching staff to prepare us and make sure that whoever's next in line or whichever team's next in line for us, we're going to be ready for it. So this is where it starts to become fun, because we just want to win. Winning is fun, but I'm not going to dismiss any of the challenges. It is challenging. We're not playing, like, bad teams or teams who won't get, like, you know, we're not playing those type of teams. We're playing really great teams that are coached very well, and they're going to be as ready as we are. So we just have to be prepared. That's all I can really say. We have to be prepared and just take on the challenge head on.
- [38:02]
Ben
Just along those lines. I mean, when you think back to last year, are there moments or scenes in the locker room as you watch your teammates run out of the tunnel and you were not participating as you recovered from that ACL injury? Are there things that you're just thinking about, knowing that it's March right now, knowing that this could be your last opportunity in college basketball? Of course. And also with this group, like, have you started to replay any of those things and any moments you can tell us if so, as, you know, as conference tournament and as the NCAA tournament approaches.
- [38:37]
Rory Harmon
I mean, yeah, I wasn't physically playing with my teammates. Obviously, like, there's no turning back now. But throughout that process, I was still on the team. I was still there. I was still grinding out, just in another way. But I've been through those situations before. Last year was just the one I wasn't playing in. So I understand what it's supposed to look like, and even learning from that side perspective, like, what it's supposed to look like and remembering what it's supposed to feel like. And so for me, it's gonna be like, welcome back in a way, like, welcome back to the tournament. Welcome back to March Madness while playing. And since, like, you said that this moment was taken away from me last year, to be physically playing my team, obviously, they are so incredible to be able to do what they did last year. And I'm so. Just so happy, like, it gives me chills to be able to be in this moment again with, you know, this is the last time with this specific group. And so that just makes everything so much easier. To play for. And yeah, I learned a lot through that situation last year, through just March Madness and just throughout the tournaments. But now I'm here and I'm ready to play and I'm just so grateful to be back and playing and to be playing with my team. And we're ready. Just, we're so ready. And I think we all understand what's at stake and we'll be ready.
- [39:54]
Vic, I got to admit, we have time for like one more question for you and I'm torn whether to ask you a basketball question or a non basketball question that might lead to a really great story. So I'll let you pick, I'll let you make the decision on this one.
- [40:08]
Vic Schaefer
Come on, you're the host. You can hit me whatever you want to.
- [40:13]
Rory Harmon
All right, we'll have plenty of time in March, hopefully to. To chat basketball. So I got a major league baseball umpire question for you. Oh yeah, also in our research, Rory, I feel like you're learning a lot about your coach today.
- [40:24]
I am. I mean like we've been together for years now and I mean he's. There's so much to know about him, so much to learn about him. So I'm ready to hear it.
- [40:35]
So Vic, in our research we learned that you once had a dream to be an umpire in major league baseball. And that when you were at San Houston, you would umpire fast pitch softball, I guess. Where did this dream come from? And, and similar to your pre med, how did it sort of get kicked to the curb for coaching?
- [40:51]
Vic Schaefer
Yeah, when I was at doing my undergrad, umpired baseball games, high school baseball games. And it's probably why it took me five and a half years to get out of college because I'd much rather go umpire baseball game than study. And so once I graduated and then got a job coaching the 9th grade boys at Milby High School, I continued with my umpiring and became, you know, I got a lot of really big games, umpired a lot of junior college games. I got all the big high school games in the area. I'd always get Baytown League, Baytown Sterling, because I wasn't from Baytown. I really loved it. Like I loved umpiring and you know, basketball season was over. I probably did five nights a week of high school or the game you wanted, you wanted to call Lee Junior College because they paid you $60 in cash for a doubleheader.
- [41:44]
Rory Harmon
Wow.
- [41:45]
Vic Schaefer
So when you walked out of there, you had cash in your hand, not some check that was going to show up in two weeks. And so Coach Oni, who was the head coach at Milby, he would let me, he would cover my history class. At 11:30 I could get in my Corvette, drive 45 minutes to Baytown and be there in time for a 1 o'clock doubleheader and get that done and make 60 bucks cash. And then high school, I got all the big games, I got a lot of big playoff games. So I loved it. Then I got to where I got. I was calling some games in major college. And so Mike Riley, who was an American League umpire, he called me and I had met him through a friend. He said, vic, if you can get to Brinkman's umpiring school, they're going to take 11 guys and they want guys with degrees. He goes, I think you can make it. And you know, I really thought long and hard about that. And, and so then when I was at Sam Houston State in 1990, I got to umpire in a little bit of fast pitch, women's fast pitch, college at A and M in Sam Houston State one day. And Bill Brock was the, Bob Brock was the legendary coach at A and M at the time. We had a big deal at home plate and I wasn't involved at all. I was just down there on first place minding my own business. And he looked down there and he said, get your down here. And I'm like, I don't need to come down there and get in the middle of that mess. But you know, I just really enjoyed it and, but I got married and when I got married, we were really struggling at Sam. I got that job as a 29 year old head coach. There were three kids on the team and a month after signing date, I'd never coached a woman a day in my life. I had no contacts in the women's game. It was so. And consequently, to be honest with you, I wasn't no more ready for that job in the man in the Moon. And our first two years were really hard. And then I got, I met Holly and I got married and I told Holly, I go, it might be time for me to do a career change. I said, you know, I'm getting all these big baseball games. I really love it. Mike Riley thinks I can make it. I got to go to Brinkman's umpire in school in January, which means I can't coach the team. Well, her dad found out and we had just gotten married and so he pulls me to the side one day we were up in Arkansas and her little bitty yellow blinking light town and we go walking Down Muddy Lane, which is the street that her parents lived on. And it truly was a muddy lane. And he says, vic, I understand you want to get out of coaching. And I said. And he was a superintendent for 30 years. I said, yes, sir, I do. I said, I. I went through the whole spiel about Riley and Brinkman's umpire school. He said, really want you to think twice about that. And I go, why? I think I can make it. Like I'm pretty good at it. And he said, well, I think you like coaching. He said, and the bottom line is, if you're not happy, my daughter ain't going to be happy, and that ain't going to make me happy. He said, I think you need to reconsider getting out of coaching. Pretty good advice. So I didn't go. And I think two years later, I was coach of the year in the Southland Conference. Four years later, I went to Arkansas as an assistant, kind of. The rest is history. But I loved umpire and baseball. I really did.
- [45:32]
Ben
I was gonna say, your love of baseball and of umpiring certainly shines through there, Vic. And I guess, sadly for you, a deep tournament run in the NCAA tournament, I guess it'll mean you won't be able to go to any spring training games in Tampa, but I think. I think you'll trade a trip to Tampa for the Final Four for missing a little bit of spring training baseball for this year.
- [45:52]
Vic Schaefer
No question.
- [45:52]
Rory Harmon
Vic, I have to ask, your experience as a baseball umpire, has this given you more grace for basketball officials? Because you've been on the other side of the whistle now, I don't know if they have whistles. I don't watch baseball.
- [46:04]
Vic Schaefer
Yeah, you know it. For some it does. And this is. This is how I'm going to explain this. When you're a baseball umpire and you miss one when you're at home plate or you're on the base path, you know, I've had coaches come out on me and, you know, before they even get to me, you know, I'll tell them I kicked it and they'll turn around and go back. They ain't gonna stand out there and blow up at the same moment, too. If I miss a ball and strike, and I'm getting an earful from the coach, you know, between innings, I'm gonna find him on his way to third base or first base to coach and go, hey, I might have missed that one. I just think that honesty piece, like, you can't BS a BS er. And so for referees, if they'll turn around and go, hey, Vic, I probably kicked the crap out of that one. Like, I'm good. Like, you'll never hear another peep from me. But if you come over there and try to BS me and convince me that you're. You didn't miss it, and I know damn well you did. And my video guy sitting right here with a computer going, he kicked the crap out of it. Or, like, you lose credibility with me. And so I learned that, you know, as a baseball umpire, to just be accountable, man, and think about it. You're calling balls and strikes, and it's hard to get every one of those right. And, you know, as an umpire, like, I tried to get them all right? I took great pride in that. And that's why I said, I think I could have made it. I really do. But because I was ate up with it. Like, I literally was ate up with it. There wasn't a rule or anything that could happen that I know I couldn't have handled. So you're right. I do translate it over to now, and in talking and having a communication with referees. And, you know, sometimes they come over and I'm hotter than a pistol, and they're like, hey, Vic, I'm right here. You know, And I'm like, I got it. I know, but I am mad. But I understand you're right here. I know I don't need to be hollering, you know, it's not like you're across the way, but, you know, and I tell Rory all the time, sometimes we get in a huddle, and I've told her, I said, you know what? Sometimes the old coach just needs you to lean across him on the knee and go, hey, Coach, we're good. I got it. You know, just because, you know, she'll tell you I'm. I'm really passionate about what we do and how we do it. I'm. I'm trying to. I'm trying to hold people to zero. Is that ever going to happen? No, we're never going to shut anybody out. But by gosh, I want us to try, you know, and. And I don't like when we turn it over. She knows that, you know, she's in charge a lot. Might not be her, but somebody else does. And so, you know, I'm just. It's just who I am. It's how I'm built. But there is a really good correlation between that. It's interesting that you bring it up.
- [48:54]
Ben
Well, we appreciate you sharing stories of your love of baseball and umpiring and refereeing. And tales, I guess, of all different errors from both you and Rory. Rory Harmon, Vic Schaefer, best of luck in the SEC Tournament and thanks again for joining us on the Athletic Women's Basketball Show.
- [49:10]
Vic Schaefer
We really appreciate your time today and we're grateful and we just appreciate everything you do for our great game. So thank you for your time and we'll see you down the road. Praise the Lord and hook them Horns.
- [49:23]
Rory Harmon
Thanks, guys.
- [49:25]
Zena Kaida
Wow. What an amazing conversation. I love getting to hear how much these coaches ride for their players. It's so dope to hear not only about the coaching staff overall at Texas, but just to hear how Vic Schaefer talks about Rory Harmon talks about Madison Booker talks about his team and the work that they put in. Also, shout out to Ben and Chantelle for the research they did on the many lives of Vic Schaeffer. Interestingly enough, I too was pre med. I think we all kind of drank the same Kool Aid of like, you need to be a lawyer, you need to be a doctor. You need to be, you know, something formidable with a title in front or after your name in order to make it make sense. But hey, just like I have found my way into this space of talking sports, shout out to Vic Schaefer for finding his way into women's basketball because, wow, what an impact he has made in this time period and also what he's going to continue to make in the way that he's inspiring women's basketball players and of course, impacting the space. Thank you both Vic and Rory for joining us and also Chantelle and Ben for a wonderful interview. And last but not least, thank you all for tuning in and sharing your time with us, allowing us to come and be a part of your day. On behalf of Coach Schaefer, Rory, Chantelle and Ben, I am thanking you and encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to grow it. Until next time.
- [51:00]
Vic Schaefer
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- [52:19]
Vic Schaefer
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Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah, I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.
- [52:49]
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- [52:50]
Vic Schaefer
Of death?
- [52:51]
Rory Harmon
Well, I don't know.
- [52:51]
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I think about it all the time.
- [52:53]
Rory Harmon
How are we here already?
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Vic Schaefer
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