← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
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- [00:00]
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- [04:52]
Zena Kaeda
For the Athletic. I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Oh, welcome to another special edition of the Athletic All Access where we tap in with voices all around the world of women's basketball that are impacting and influencing the space. Before we dive in, you know I got to do my job and make sure that you are subscribed to this show wherever you get your pods because you don't want to miss out on really cool conversations like the one we're about to have today. Now today's special guest I only have one connection to. This man has never met me before, but someone from his office sent a letter to my Home after I played particularly well in an AAU tournament sometime between my sophomore year of high school and my junior year of high school, I remember taking this letter and taping it to my chest in the fall of my junior year just to let people around my school know, yes, yes, yes, I'm a baller. The letters U, C, O, N, N were taped across my chest, and I felt like the coolest kid in the world. Now, mind you, that was the only piece of communication I ever received from this school. But when you receive UConn, a letter that says UConn from any. @ any point in your high school career, you feel as if you are on top of the world. And I did. And that's because when you think of UConn, but particularly when you think of its coach, Gino Oriemma, you think of excellence. You think of innovation. You think championship pedigree. You think excellence. Juno Auriemma has built a dynasty that has redefined the sport of basketball. Eleven NCAA national championships, multiple undefeated seasons. I don't even know how many WNBA players, let alone number one draft picks. A track record of developing elite talent both on and off the court. This is coach Shino Auriema's impact on the game. He's known for his strategic brilliance. He's known for his competitive fire. And now he's known for being a legend, a living legend in. In the space. One of the only few coaches to still be doing this when the. When women's basketball really started to. Now. So excited that we got a chance to sit down and get his perspective of how this space has changed, how it's evolved, his thoughts on his current team and his current stars on his roster. I'm so excited for this. Chantel, Sabrina, y'all take it away.
- [07:44]
Gino Auriemma
So, Gino, I'm curious, sort of looking at the current state of women's college basketball, the changes that we've seen in the last few years. How would 2025 Gino Auriemma explain the college basketball landscape to the 1985 Gino, who took the job at UConn without even seeing what the gym looked like?
- [08:04]
Yeah, that's like. Yeah. Trying to explain in 2025 what it was like to live in the Roman Empire. You know, it's ancient history and hard to describe to anyone that I would say wasn't there because you had to be there to actually believe it. So the landscape now relative to them to then. Well, at Connecticut, we were just trying to not finish the eighth or ninth in our league. There were nine teams in the Big East. So we were trying to make sure we didn't finish eighth or ninth because that's where they finished every year. And that was the playing game in order to get into the Big east tournament. So we accomplished that goal. We didn't finish eighth or ninth. And teams like Providence, Villanova, Syracuse, BC, St. John's were good teams, but none of them national players by any stretch of the imagination. The national landscape, I don't even know if there was a top 25 poll back then, but Mel Greenberg, that's how old that this thing is. So, you know, it may. There may have been Tennessee, Old Dominion, Louisiana Tech, Virginia, I don't know, NC State, Maryland. Very regional, very, very non national view of women's basketball. The NCAA tournament was 32 teams. I want to say, just to give you an idea. We went to the final four in 1991, which was. Which meant that we were the first team ever from north to the Mason Dixon Line to go to the NCAA Final Four. You know, from north to Philadelphia at least. And there were 8,000 people at the Final Four played in Lakefront arena in New Orleans. And there was one TV camera there that I know of that came from Connecticut. And so, yeah, compared to today was intramurals versus what is now today, major news, major sports, major coverage, major interest. And it's only taken 40 years.
- [10:04]
E
Where was the Big east tournament those days when you were trying to, you know, get out of the 8, 9 play in game?
- [10:09]
Gino Auriemma
The Big east tournament used to rotate among each member school, so every school got to host it, which is crazy. We just played at Seton hall last night, and it seats 1800 people. And that was the first Big east tournament that we. That Connecticut won in.85. I'm sorry,88.89 was our first Big east championship and it was at Seton hall. And the game wasn't even on. Was it on the radio? I think it might have been like WH US campus radio station broadcast the game. And then the tournament came back there 10 years later in 1995, and, you know, everything had changed. You know, we're undefeated. We're favorites to win a national championship. And it's the. And still, you know, it's the biggest tournament played in front of 1800 people and 1700 of them were bust down from Connecticut. So a lot has changed and the world is, in so many ways, the word is different. And there was no way to communicate. You know, back in 85, there's no phones. You found out the next morning how everybody did, you know, and every kid that was on our team was from within driving distance. I think the furthest kid that was on Our team in 85 was from New Jersey when I first started. You know, I feel like my mother, a teenager During World War II, living in the hills because the Germans took over their house in Italy. And then the day she died in 1992, she had a cell phone, you know, and UConn women's basketball and the rest of basketball is living in a place that didn't exist in 1985, not even in people's imagination.
- [11:42]
How would you have explained, like, Nil and the transfer portal and revenue share to that guy who is playing in Seton hall in front of, like, five people and a bunch of reporters with typewriters? That's what it sounds like, yeah.
- [11:55]
Hard to explain to anyone. Why? Well, I shouldn't say it's hard to explain, but maybe it is. And anybody that doesn't want to understand won't understand. But coaching in 1985 and coaching today, in at least the level that we're at, coaching College Basketball, Coaching 1985 and Coaching Today, be the difference between riding a tricycle and flying a jet plane. You can't even imagine the difference. The landscape, how it's changed and why so many coaches are dying to get out of the game. Because it's unmanageable. Not that it's unfair. That's beside the point that it's unfair. It's unfair to the mid majors. It's unfair to the schools that don't have the money. It's unfair to Everybody except the 40 or 50 schools in the country that can't afford to live in that world. So it's unfair to the rest of college sports, but it's unmanageable. You can't manage it because there's no rules. And no one can operate when there's no rules. You know, we try to have rules on our team, but it's hard for those kids to understand the rules of the team when the rest of their college experience. There are no rules. It's whatever you want to do or have the ability to do at your school. That's what you do. Nobody worries about any ramifications. So it's unmanageable. And each and every year that this lasts, the unmanageable part of it. And I'm not saying kids shouldn't get paid. I'm not saying they shouldn't make money off their, you know, ability to play basketball, but their ability to just pack up and leave anytime they Want makes it unmanageable for the coaches. And everybody will say, you have parity because more players move from one place to another. But in reality, that parity is going to go away. When the teams that could spend the most money end up with the most good players, that parody is going to start going away. You know, like they say, there's parody in college football. That is the biggest joke in the history of sports is that there's parody in college football. There's only one sport that has parody, and that's the NFL. Everybody else is fooling themselves that there's parody. So, you know, let's see what happens.
- [14:01]
E
So, considering you got into this job when it was, you know, riding a tricycle and now you're flying a jet plane, what is it that keeps you wanting to stay around?
- [14:09]
Gino Auriemma
You know, of all the questions that I'm asked all the time, that's the one I have the same answer to. I have no idea why, because any sane person would not be doing this. Anybody worth their salt would say, what do I need this aggravation for? You know, I've got grandkids in high. I got a grandson in high school who is one year younger than kids in 10th grade that my assistant coaches are asking me to go watch play. You know, so you say, well, why? And. And I really. There are some days when I don't have an answer for that, and I. And I truly wonder whether it's even worth it or not. Then there's days like Sunday where you play a big game, you're on the road, the place is sold out, your players perform at a really high level, execute at a really high level, and you go home feeling like, you know, I can still have an impact on what happens in all my team and in this. In this game in particular. So I guess when I can have an impact or when the highs of winning don't exist like they used to and the lows of losing are way worse than they've ever been, then that's time to, you know, and I probably feel those things every single day, but I keep coming back for whatever reason, not sure why.
- [15:21]
We can talk a little bit about Sunday. I think, obviously, that was such a. A huge performance for your team. I was at the game, obviously. I think through the whole thing, it was sort of like, wow, this is the UConn team that, you know, the way that Paige and Az were playing, I mean, my God, Janna was crossing people over and looking like she'd been out there doing that stuff her whole Life, like, as it was happening, you.
- [15:42]
Should have seen her last night. She was horrible. So, yeah, let's not get too carried away with that.
- [15:47]
Well, you said. I mean, after the game, you said, I have. I wouldn't be surprised if we regressed when it comes to Seton hall on Wednesday night. So I suppose you called that. But I guess managing those highs and lows of a team, of a season, of your own emotions, do you feel like you've gotten better with that as you've sort of gone from building a program to maintaining a program? Like, obviously, managing those highs and lows, it's a different numbers, number of highs and lows. But how has that changed through your career?
- [16:12]
You know, it may be counterintuitive. You know, it may be like, as you get older, you're supposed to learn from your past mistakes and you're supposed to have more patience because you've seen it all. Nothing should surprise you. It's completely the opposite, 100% opposite. I have no patience for anybody or anything, and I'm completely shocked. Even though I've seen it for 40 years, I still can't believe what I'm seeing. And it gets worse because my expectations now are so high in the sense that, well, everybody says this is such a great game and that these players are so talented and everything is beautiful and all this and all that. Okay, so then my expectations should reflect that. I should expect this game to be played at a really, really, really high level. What we just talked about, it's very, very difficult to get these kinds of performances on a regular basis. And then when you don't get it, it's like an anomaly. Instead, now when you do get a phenomenal performance, it's like, wow, where'd that come from? You know, so getting that consistency, getting that consistent standard of. Of excellence that we all aspire to, it's gotten much, much, much more difficult as all these other pressures and interferences and distractions have come into the game for these players. It's very difficult for them to lock in on a regular basis every day and be the same. Their life is like this. You know, like, how can you coach a team of kids? Now, I understand if it's the NBA or the NFL or whatever, you're dealing with adults, okay? But think about it this way. You got college kids that today's Thursday is their day off. Okay? We play again Saturday. So we just had a game Sunday. We had a game Wednesday night. They have a day off today, and they're doing photo shoots for commercials to make money, you know, instead of resting, instead of getting their mind off, you know, clear their head, get away from everything. Instead, they do more on their off days than they do during. During the days when they actually just go to school and go to practice. That's like an easy day for them. I don't know how you can keep, you know, young people engaged in what's important when all that is going on in their lives. So do I manage it better? Do I handle it better? I guess part of me says, you know, I just had this conversation with Chris Daly. I guess part of me said, you know what? Screw it. I'm only going to worry about the things that I can control when the things I can't control. But that's how I built my career. I've tried to control things I can't control. You know, that's how we become what we become. I try to make sure that every single facet that involves being really good, I control it. And, you know, it's only the one thing I have learned is, no, you're not. You're not controlling it. You're not. You're at the mercy of whatever. So that makes it less fun, to be honest with you, not more rewarding, more, you know, gratifying. It doesn't.
- [19:03]
Is there a player from the pre Nil era that you feel like would have particularly enjoyed this aspect of college basketball right now? Going to sort of photo shoots on off days? Is there anyone that comes to mind that you're like, yeah, they would have. They would have thrived in this environment.
- [19:17]
Yeah, none of them were any good. You know, they were more interested in photo shoots and, you know, the fake eyelashes and all that other bullshit.
- [19:24]
You know, you don't think Diana would have. You don't think Dana hates no Diana.
- [19:29]
No Diana. Diana would have enjoyed the Nil and Portal stuff because she would have put herself out there to the highest bidder every single year. She would have played at four different schools, 100%. She would have been immersive marriage. She'd have played for UConn as a freshman and three more schools, and she would be a free agent and put herself out there each and every single year. No question about it. And she probably would strike deals with the most outrageous out of the box and represent some of the most out there companies or products. If all that stuff lived on when, when that group was here, forget it. It would have been all over. And the other one, Swing Cat, Swingcast, would have built the whole business around Nil. And. And it Would have been, you know, she would have her own magazine, she'd have her own blog, you know, if that existed back then. Yeah. She would be the Kardashian of women's basketball, 100%. So Swin and D, they would be my two. Two favorites. And they were both on the same team, if you can imagine what that circus would have been like. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%.
- [20:42]
E
Well, apparently not on the same team for very long if Diana had her way, you know, only one year max.
- [20:46]
Gino Auriemma
Yeah, no question. No question.
- [20:49]
E
Given all of the extracurricular stuff happening in college basketball with Nil and all of this, do you think it's at least easier to be maintaining a program that you've already built rather than starting one from the ground up?
- [21:03]
Gino Auriemma
I don't know. I think maintaining a culture in the midst of all this is much more difficult than if you were starting new and trying to build it. Because it's probably never been easier to build something because you just go out and buy it. Right. So there's so many people willing to leave where they are that you can go and find what you're looking for and, you know, put a team together. But that doesn't mean you're putting a culture together or putting a team together. I'm sorry, you're putting a team for that year together, but you're not building a culture. So I should clarify. If you're us, I think it may be a little bit easier because we already have a culture. But if you're trying to build a culture, if you're just trying to build a good team, that's easier than it's ever been. You don't have to wait three recruiting classes. So building a good team is easier than it's ever been. Building a culture is going to be really, really hard because you're constantly bringing in new players because of the portal.
- [21:54]
I'm always, Gino, amazed with your memory. I'm just curious because I feel like you have a good recollection for, like, stats and moments and quotes and all this. And the other day at the game, someone had asked me, they were like, oh, do you know which coach has the longest consecutive win streak against UConn with Gino? And I thought I did, and I was wrong. I'm curious. Do you know who it is? It's five and five straight wins against you guys. Do you know who it is?
- [22:17]
Five straight wins against us.
- [22:19]
Yeah. This goes back to the, like, building process of when you guys were building before maintaining probably Villanova. No, it was Miami's Fern Lobati.
- [22:29]
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. You're right. You're right. They came into the league a little bit later, and they dominated the league. Man, they were. Whoo. Yeah, they were. They were good. They were really good. They didn't look anything like any of the other teams in that league. That looked like an NBA team that we were playing against.
- [22:47]
Yeah, they were good.
- [22:48]
Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Francis Savage was like, man, between her, Desmond Thomas, and they have one other kid. Wow. She was really, really good at a.
- [23:02]
Point guard, averaging seven assists a game. Hebert.
- [23:06]
Jeannie Hebert. She was from Alaska.
- [23:09]
Yep.
- [23:10]
E
That is a trek to get to Miami.
- [23:13]
Gino Auriemma
Yes, she was from Alaska to Miami. How about that?
- [23:16]
See, this was the difference between the UConn teams and those teams is that you had a recruiting where everyone could drive and Miami could actually recruit.
- [23:23]
That's right. That's right. How about that?
- [23:26]
All right. Well, I had asked you about if you miss anything about building versus maintaining, sort of when I'd imagine, at least back then, it was like when you were trying to get out of the eighth and ninth place game.
- [23:35]
Everything was new, everything was exciting. Every day was a challenge, but you knew that you were moving forward. You know, you were crawling. I get it. And you were making incremental progress slowly, but you were constantly excited about the future and excited about what's next. And I can't wait till we play our next game. I can't wait for the next practice. You knew you were going to be the underdog in every single game, and there's some semblance of, you know, grit about that. That was exciting. Complete opposite. Today, you're never the underdog. You're expected to win every game. Nothing that happens you haven't seen before, you know, so the excitement was so unbelievable back then. Yeah, it was refreshing. It was invigorating. All that good stuff. And, yeah, today it's relief. More relief.
- [24:31]
E
Well, at least for your players, you know, there's the chance of doing something they haven't done before.
- [24:36]
Gino Auriemma
Correct. So to fully, truly answer the question, what's different about today? Today, it doesn't mean. I would say it doesn't mean the same to me because I've experienced it all. But it means the same, if not more to the players because they've not experienced any of that. So the. The excitement, the challenge, whatever fun is in there is because you're hopefully giving an opportunity for players on your team right now to experience something that you've already experienced a bunch of times. And you hope that you can do that same thing for them. That's it, basically. Because what it does for you is not the same as what it did before. It's not as impactful for you as it was as it used to be. But it's impactful to the same extent, maybe more for the players that you're trying to do it with.
- [25:26]
I guess this is like everything we've talked about so far is kind of the Venn diagram of Paige's playing career for you. Like, there aren't many people at the women's college basketball level that have sort of been bigger nil stars than Paige. And obviously I live in Minnesot, so I see Paige Becker's Yukon jerseys all the time. Like I go to the grocery store at Target. Like I see a Paige jersey somewhere. But she's also in that boat of being this high profile recruit, which you've had a million times before. But she hasn't won a national title yet. She's won a lot of individual accolades, obviously national player of the year as a freshman and sort of been honored in that way. But like I've been in your guys film room. You guys have like the pictures of all the national championship teams like plastered on the wall. They're like six feet tall. I guess some of the players just are that tall. So that's just normal sized. But like, what is it like coaching her this year and how badly like specifically for her? As close as you guys have gotten over the last five years, everything you've been through together, like, how does that change how you work with her, coach her, your relationship with her, how bad you want that experience for a player like Paige?
- [26:25]
I think it's. It goes back to what we were saying earlier. I'm very impatient. So you say, what's my relationship with Paige? I'm impatient. And the reason I'm impatient is because she keeps saying, this is what I want. You know, I really want this. And obviously, you know, this isn't swimming or tennis or golf or track and field. You know, this is not an individual sport where you just decide, this is how I'm going to do it. And then you go out and if you do it, you did it. And if you don't, you didn't do it. You know, this involves a lot more variables. You know, there's other teammates involved and there's, you know, the ability to stay injury free, not just you, but your teammates, you know, so all these things have kind of conspired against her. I'll give you A quick. For instance, that game against South Carolina was the second time, maybe second time in Paige's career here that we've played them without missing a key player in all the times that we played them since Paige has been here, that we were somewhat 100, close to 100% fully healthy her freshman year when we played him in the bubble and we had everybody available ever since then. No. So every NCAA tournament we've been to, we've been shorthanded in some way, shape or form. One year she missed the NCAA tournament completely. So a lot of things have not gone her way and things that are beyond her control. And yet she still, you know, holds out hope that there's going to be a time when she has a legit opportunity to win the whole thing, because we're 100 healthy and we have all the key pieces on the floor. The impatience for me is trying to get her to understand. Yeah, that's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it is you can't just keep doing what you've been doing since freshman year and think that that's going to be good enough. And for someone who's had so much success, that's a hard concept to grasp, you know, like, what do you mean? And I just think that's the world, too. Like, look at the success that I'm having. Look at how many opportunities I have. Look at, you know, you know, all the Final Four. I've been. I've been to the Final Four every year that I've played, you know, and my thing is. Yeah, but, you know, if your goal is to win the whole thing, yeah, we have to be healthy, and you can't control that, but you can control your vision of what you need to be. So that's my off the court, on the court relationship with Paige, trying to get her to understand the things that she needs to be doing that don't come natural to her, you know. So how's that going? It's going. It's not there yet. It's not 100% there yet, but we're hopefully making some progress. But I do think that there has to be more progress made in how she approaches the game. And. And in a lot of ways, it has to do with the way people play her. It's imperative that she do a great job in her moving without the ball. So from a purely technical aspect of the game, you know, moving without the ball, because I think that's going to be a real key for us going forward, how well we can move without the ball. You know, I thought we did a great job of that over the weekend, and that has to be something that we keep getting better at. And two, it really is about inspiring your teammates, you know, so I'm trying to get her to. Paige is very good at holding herself up to a certain standard, but she expects everyone else to hold themselves up to. To a high standard. But I'm not sure she's completely understanding of it's your job to help them hold themselves up to a higher standard. And so that's been a big emphasis for us, you know, this past year. So all these things, you know, people just think, you know, you sign a really great player, and boom, you know, the next step is, when's the parade? And it doesn't work that way. There's a lot that goes into between signing a letter of intent, you know, and having a parade. And, you know, the more time goes on where people don't win back to back, the more they realize how freaking hard it is to win a national championship once and how almost impossible it is to win it back to back or three or four.
- [30:49]
E
Well, speaking of somebody else who signed a letter of intent and probably expects a parade at some point, Sarah Strong has had a really nice freshman season for you guys, and I'm just wondering how you would rate her among the other freshman seasons you've seen at UConn.
- [31:05]
Gino Auriemma
I would say her freshman year so far has been a combination, you know, a little bit of Paige, but Paige didn't have playing with her. Who. Sarah does a little bit of Maya, but Maya didn't have. Well, Maya had. Maya had similar. Because Maya had Tina and Renee and those guys when she got here. So it was. I mean, it was big, but we came up short, too. Maya's. We lost in a semifinals with Maya, but individually, Maya may have had the best freshman year of anybody, except, you know, she had a better regular season in Stewie, but Stewie had a better tournament, obviously, than Maya. So I would say little combinations of all those. I wish that people could see how much more there is to Sarah's game than what she's showing. And that's one big difference between her and Maya. Maya came in, and even though we had Tina and Renee, she thought, I'm the best player in America and tried to prove it every single day in practice. Certainly, Stewie wasn't like that. Paige wasn't necessarily like that. And Sarah doesn't come to practice every day wanting to prove she's the best player in the country. You know, these other guys Just kind of wanted to blend in a little bit and find their way and then, you know, be there when you needed them. So I think Sarah's got a little bit of all that, and I'm trying to instill in her more of a Maya mentality, because the average person has not seen half of what Sarah Strong has the capability of doing. And I'm hoping that as we get closer to tournament time, I can drag that out of her, because I don't think there's a freshman in the country that, as a matter of fact, forget freshmen in the country. I don't think there's 10 players in the country that have the skill set that she has and the temperament to go along with it.
- [32:59]
I feel like we've talked a lot about Sarah on this podcast. How many times this year, Sabrina, have we talked? And last year, like, the freshmen are no longer freshmen. It's kind of insane. You've obviously, like, you just rattled off some of the best freshman seasons we've ever seen in the history of women's college basketball. You coached all of them. But do you have a sense of, like, why are the freshmen so much more or so much faster to acclimate to the college game, or so much more ready than they used to be? Is it, like. Do you see sort of an answer, and is it development? Is it that they have more access to, like, trainers? Is it that they're seeing more games at the college level before they get there, so they sort of know what to expect?
- [33:34]
Probably a bit of all that. Everything comes with a. With a caveat, right? Freshmen have access to way more things, so they also come to college a little bit more selfish, which is not a bad thing to be when you're a really, really good player. They come to college. I wish Sarah was like this more, but they. I think they come to college more. More okay with the hype, more okay with the limelight. Because that limelight and that hype starts so much sooner than it used to, right? So you got, you know, people following high school sports, and you got, you know, high school games on television, and you've got people, you know, having, you know, nil deals when they're in high school. So when they get to college, they're flying the games. You know, all the things that used to be, wow experience. I can't wait to go do that. They do it now when they're in 10th grade, you know, so there's nothing that surprises them. There's nothing that is a humbling wow moment for them. The Flip side of that is a lot of them are delusional and they think they're way better than they are. And they're really hard to coach because they think I've got it and I don't need anybody's help. And I'm fortunate. I'm exceptionally fortunate. Sarah's not like that. Sarah loves being coached. She looks right through you, like right into your soul when you're talking to her. She loves being coached. She asks a lot of questions. She wants to learn more than anything in the world. 180 from Nika and Paige when they were freshmen, when I had to convince them that I knew what I was talking about, I don't. Trust me. I actually made this comment one time to Paige when she was a freshman. I said, listen, I'm so grateful that after 35 years of coaching, I finally had somebody come to my program that could show me everything I was doing wrong. So I can't tell you how grateful I am for this experience, you know, so that's the flip side. That's the flip side of all this. As they come here thinking they know more than you do because they've had some trainer working with them who's showing them how to flip tennis balls and dribble around cones and say, yeah, you're spectacular. You're the next Kobe Bryant, you're the next Diana Taurasi. Meanwhile, they don't know about anything. They can't play basketball, but they can do all these drills and they play. And so in, in one sense, it's elevated them confidence wise and unprepared for anything. And you know, my self esteem is through the roof. But I think when they get to college, a lot of times it's a humbling experience. And if they don't treat it as a humbling experience, then I think they're missing out on an opportunity. They'll stay freshmen even through their sophomore years if they're not careful, you know, and you find that out, look around the country and you see four years ago, let's say freshmen that came in, are they still dominant players? You know, are they still like improving every year? You know, did they all of a sudden elevate to a whole nother level or, or they staying the same, you know, that's when you can tell whether or not a kid who's going in is open to coaching, is open to, you know, being pushed and willing to blend their talents in with the rest of the team. So as I said, you know, all these things come at a price and it's a, it's a delicate balance for these kids to come in knowing I'm really, really good, I'm able to handle all this stuff because I've been dealing with it since Soph high school. I've traveled around the country, I've flown all over the place. I've played overseas with USA Basketball, let's say. So they come to college and it's like no big deal to them, but you know, they have to have a sort of humble approach to coach. I want to get coached, I want to get better, tell me how I, what I need to do. And then even then this is new as well. You know, you'll coach a kid and then that summer they're off all over the country working with these individual trainers, probably telling them something completely opposite than when you just told them for the last six months, you know, then they come back and you have to start all over again. So that didn't used to happen. For what used to happen is, you know, kids kind of were locked into what your coach wanted, what your team wanted. Now they have access to so many things that you have to be really cognizant of that, that you're not the only voice in these kids ears.
- [37:49]
E
So how do you balance developing your players while also building your team and growing your team at the same time?
- [37:55]
Gino Auriemma
Well, the conversation that I use is it's, it's imperative that each one of our players has to get better every day and every off season because in order for our team to improve, each and every player has to improve. Okay, that's one. So yes, our job is to make you better and we're making you better because that makes our team better. And then we have to show you how your talents help the other kids on the team be better and their talents help you be better. And it's, you know, that vicious circle. So the only balance is you can't say, well, I'm coaching my team, I can't worry about you, or I'm coaching you and it doesn't matter about my team. I'm coaching you to be better. It's your obligation to be better because that's what makes our team better. Now here's the crazy thing, okay, well, when we recruit you, you don't have any worries about who's on our team. Now think about this. It's like the athletic who you both happen to be a part of, hires you guys to do a job for them. You're not worried about whose job you might be taking or you might be infringing on who's getting less time and less space because you're new and you don't really care. You just want to be great at your job. Well, now you're there two years, and then all of a sudden they bring in two more just like you, and you're in a panic because, oh, my God, they're going to take my spot. Well, you didn't worry about that shit when you were coming in, but now you're worried because we're bringing two other people in. Well, that's your job, man. You got to be so good, you got to get better that it doesn't matter who we bring in. But today, they just leave. Now, unfortunately, I don't have that. You know, that hasn't affected my program, but that's what a lot of coaches are dealing with, the delicate balance with, like, I need to make you better. You have to let me coach you. Why? Because next year I'm going to recruit a guy that's going to take your job if you don't, you know, so it's all about empowering them. I'm doing this for your own good. I have to make you better. You have to let me coach you because it's good for your survival. It can't be just like, I know it all, I've got it all. And at the same time, you know, we as coaches have to get better. I just think as our. As our players come in a little bit more advanced, a little more worldly, I think we as coaches have got to be better. We've got to know how to. How to use that kind of talent that that is coming in. You know, some of the other experiences that they've had, it's not all new to them. So we have to be kind of a little more advanced, and we've got to coach at a higher level. And I think we do that, and I think it makes all of us better. They make us better, and we make them better.
- [40:16]
Gino, we'll let you go after this, but I'm curious, just on that last point, like, you're at the point in your career now where you've won more college games than anyone else who's ever done this. But, like, when you're looking at your own self, your own career, your own ability on the sideline, who do you consult, who have you gone to and. Or what books have you read that you feel like have recently made a big impact? Or like, you were talking about sort of getting better recently at not trying to control everything and controlling what you can control. Like, who have you consulted in this in the last few years of your career as you've gotten to this point?
- [40:50]
I probably find myself a combination of things. I think I probably rely on two things which don't seem to make sense, but they do. I love to hear what coaches my age like, did you see the latest Rick Pitino thing in the locker room? I don't know if you saw it, talking to his team at halftime of a game. And I just shook my head and was smiling, and I'm like, man, I say that every week to my team. So it's like, coaches in my era, we all preach the exact same thing. So it's kind of rewarding and fulfilling and gratifying to go, all right, I'm not the only one who thinks this way, that's having success. You know, you look at what Rick has done at St. John's and you say, and where was St. John's before he took over? And yet the average person would say, well, we're too old to understand today's kids. We're too old to understand today's mentality. We have to meet them halfway, and we have to do all this. Yet when you look at the coaches that are. That are having some great success, Andy Reid is using one as. As an example, you know, or Rick, you know, coming back, you know, at St. John's and I take great inspiration from. There's something to be said for doing it the way that's always been done, but you have to modify it. So how do you modify. Well, I also appreciate what a lot of the young coaches are doing in the country at a lot of different sports that they want to also adhere to those older, tried and true standards, but they have new ways of implementing those things. So I'm not stuck one way or the other. You know, I try to get my inspiration and my. My stuff from what are the people that are practicing that have been doing this for a long, long, long time. And, you know, take a ride up to Boston and you know, Joe Missoula, he was playing when I was coaching my son's AAU team. He was playing on one of the teams we played against. And I'm thinking to myself, and now he's winning world championships with the Boston Celtics, and he's doing it in a 100 different way that I do it, but I admire that. And I listen and I watch, and he's saying what I say and I'm saying what he says. But it's coming from two different, completely different places, and it probably comes out differently. So you have to be able to say what you're saying, but saying in a way that is being said by today's people that are closely connected to that generation. And sometimes those lines get blurred. But I don't aspire to one side or the other. I want to hold on to what I have. And I also want to know what are people that are way younger than me that are having tremendous success in this job, how are they doing it? And do we share similar concerns? Yes. Do we have solutions? Yes. Are they the same? Yes. Do they go about it a different way? Yes. And I want to know all those things. That doesn't mean I can incorporate all those things, but at least I want to know them, you know? So that's kind of where I am. I don't have. I'm not set in my ways as some people think I am. I'm not. I'm not. I love what I know. I know what I love, you know? And yet at the same time, I want to know more because there's a lot that I don't know that I wish I did.
- [44:00]
All right, well, I feel like that's a good place for us to end today. And I think Sabrina and I can go into the rest of our week thinking about if the athletic were to hire two more writers, what we would do to fight for our bylines here. But it would mean two more people covering women's basketball. So I think ultimately a net positive.
- [44:17]
That's right. When they come into the office, if they're off anymore, throw the first punch and say, gino told me to do this. And if they fire you, don't worry about it. I'll hire you in a minute. Both of them.
- [44:28]
Sounds good. All right, thanks for joining us, Gino.
- [44:30]
All right, guys, thanks for having me.
- [44:32]
Zena Kaeda
Thank you so much to coach Gino Auriemma for reflecting on his career, reflecting on some of those really cool memories of what the biggies used to be like and what the NCAA used to be like, especially now that we're in this era. Some of you all joining us on this podcast, this is the era you're coming into women's basketball with, and you're seeing it as parody, Right? There's a lot of talent, a lot of schools. So it is really sobering to hear a coach, Giro Auriema, say, no, I don't think that there's a lot of parity, mainly from the perspective of access and resources and what schools need in order to recruit talent. Who retain talent and to develop talent. So it is interesting to have that perspective from a different lens, particularly from a coach. I'm also thinking about what some of these older UConn alums, what they would have been like in the NIL transfer portal era. And I'm thinking about Diana Taurasi basically having a press conference every year being like, yep, I'm open for business, whoever wants me, you got me. Just make sure that it's a really high bid. But yeah, that was a lot of fun to hear from Coach Gino. I think one of the things that resonated with me the most is just being aware of the coaches that have adapted and shifted their perspective approach to the game to fit today's era, of the type of players that are coming in, the type of opportunities that they have. Just overall ecosystem that is women's basketball, that has nothing to do with the ball bouncing on a court, but everything to do with all of the opportunities that come around with being able to bounce a ball on a court. And it made me realize, like, you know what? This week I want to follow on that pattern of giving love to some coaches that I think have done that really well and that we might not be talking a ton about. Of course, you know, we know the Kim Mulkey's and the Dawn Staley's and the Ginoriemmas and even the Lindsey Gottliebs and the Corey Closes because of how well their teams have done and how well their teams are doing this year in the most visible year of women's basketball ever. But there's some other coaches that I've been paying attention to this season and I think are really, really doing a great job with their respective programs. But particularly this aspect that Gino is talking about, about orienting themselves to fit and uplift the type of talent that's coming in the three coaches I want to give a quick little love letter to, one Shay Ralph At Vanderbilt, it is very rare to be able to have a team, especially in a conference like they're in, have two players in different positions, scoring in double figures and also being two of the top scorers in the country, period. Like top 20 scorers in the country in Camille Pierre and Mikayla Blakes, like what they're doing in Vanderbilt and the way that they've been able to highlight those two players while still playing team ball, while still being bought in, being able to beat teams like Tennessee and Alabama and keep close with a team like LSU on a big stage like that is buy in and that is just a reflection, I think, of not only the talent on the roster, but Shay Ralph and her coaching staff being able to really tap into that talent and harness it in a positive direction. I think Vanderbilt's going to be really good, and this is the type of thing that allows a recruit to say, yeah, that's a program I definitely want to join. Shea Ralph is doing big things at Vanderbilt, so I wanted to give her a little bit of love. I also want to give love to Jeff Mitte. Kansas State is still up there in terms of the right now. NCAAAP polled number 12 in the country, 4 and 3 overall in the season. And when you think about Kansas State, like Aoka Lee comes to mind. And Aoka Lee is not only a focal point in the offense, she's a focal point in the defense. But Aoka Lee is also someone that's been inconsistent, not, not anything to her fault. Injuries, right? She sustained so many injuries. And so when you think about how I remember if our star player went out, how disorienting it can be to change your game plan and shift your game plan and get everyone to buy in on, okay, we'll be okay for the amount of time that this person's out and people are having to step up, people having to step in, people having to shift their talents to another space in order to fill the gap. The way that Jeff Mitte has been able to get his team to buy into just playing team ball and playing great team defense has been really, really cool. Right now you look at K State, they had a 14 game winning streak this season from the end of November towards the end of January. They are top in the country in sharing the ball. They are top 15 in three point percentage, field goal percentage, scoring margin. Like they're killing the teams that they're playing against. Blocks per game. Like they're just ridiculous. All of these stats and the games that they've played against, like it's just been a reflection of them playing as a team. Now it is true, someone might say, oh, they haven't played a ton of people. Sure, that's perfectly fair to say. But let me tell you, going 160 at home is incredibly difficult to do. Just ask South Carolina, who just took an L to UConn. They've had some losses this season for sure against Duke, but they've also had some really big wins like blowing out Utah 7147 or beating TCU 59 50. Like they're winning games that they're supposed to and are holding their own in the Big 12. So shout out to Jeff Mitte and kind of getting the troops around, especially when they had a lot of, like, inconsistencies in their personnel and their talent. The last coach I want to give some love to is Kenny Brooks at Kentucky. And the reason why I want to do that is because coach Kenny Brooks, when you think about the role he had last year, taking Virginia Tech to the second round of the NCAA tournament without Elizabeth Kitley, your star center, that was not only an offensive source for you, but also your defensive, just everything. And losing in that way to Baylor, it was an incredibly close game. Baylor was ranked. It was tough. And there was such an underdog component to that game, especially considering where you thought they'd be. And because of that loss of Kitley, like, they just were not able to make it as far as they could. So then he leaves Virginia Tech and he's able to convince superstar Georgia Amar to come with him. And I feel like that underdog mentality followed him to Kentucky as he left the ACC to go to the sec. A stacked conference, which both conferences are stacked, but more so, I think the SEC has been for a while over the acc, and, man, he's shown up. Not only has he continued to highlight the talents and the scoring presence of Georgia Amore, he's developed Clara Strack, the sophomore in the middle that's just been dominant. Double, double machine. Pretty much, they're 24 on the season, and the way that they play, it's so team ball. It's such an aspect of we're not supposed to be here. We're not supposed to be as good as you think we are. There's a lot of change that's happened within this program at Kentucky, and yet they're still killing teams. They got a big lineup of games coming up that I think will definitely test just how good they are. They got Missouri coming up, lsu, Tennessee and South Carolina. But I'm still incredibly impressed with some of the wins that they've had this season, including over Alabama, including over Oklahoma, and very curious to see how they stand up against some of these SEC opponents. Okay, that was a long love letter, but I just wanted to give those coaches a shout out because usually when you're not in the top five or so, people aren't quite appreciating what you've been able to do for a program. But Kentucky's risen the ranks. They're now number eight in the country, and they're doing a lot of great things, so definitely look out for them to make a splash in the tournament. Going to close out today's show. Thanking Chantel, Sabrina, of course, Gene Auriemma for joining us again. Hit that subscribe button on our show. Leave us comments who do you want us to talk to? Who do you want us to cover a little bit more? Who have we not heard from? We want to hear all of that from you for now. I'm Zena Keita thanking you for your ear and encouraging you to keep watching, keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to grow it. Until next time.
- [53:05]
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Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
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Gino Auriemma
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
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Gino Auriemma
Did we just age ourselves? Yep. We're Mike Finnoya and Charles McBee, two.
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Comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging question.
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Gino Auriemma
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Gino Auriemma
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